Hobby Lobby Allegedly Fired Employee Due to Pregnancy


Read more of our coverage on the Hobby Lobby and Conestoga Wood cases here.

When a very pregnant Felicia Allen applied for medical leave from her job at Hobby Lobby three years ago, one might think that the company best known for denying its employees insurance coverage of certain contraceptives—on the false grounds that they cause abortions—would show equal concern for helping one of its employees when she learned she was pregnant.

Instead, Allen says the self-professed evangelical Christian arts-and-crafts chain fired her and then tried to prevent her from accessing unemployment benefits.

“They didn’t even want me to come back after having my baby, to provide for it,” she says.

Her allegations—as well as those brought by other former Hobby Lobby employees—call into question the company’s public claims when it comes to protecting life and operating its business with Christian values. Additionally, they highlight a practice by which Hobby Lobby prevents its employees from seeking justice through the courts.

In a phone interview with RH Reality Check, Allen, now 32, said she was stunned when her supervisor at the Hobby Lobby store in Flowood, Mississippi, told her she would be terminated for taking unpaid time off to have her baby.

Felicia Allen

Felicia Allen

Allen had been hired as a part-time cashier in late July 2010. Shortly after starting the job, she learned she was four months’ pregnant with her third child. Because she had not been working for very long, Allen did not qualify for leave under the federal Family Medical Leave Act, which is what she said the Oklahoma City-based chain offers for maternity leave. Nervous, Allen went to her supervisor.

“I asked her would I lose my job due to me being four months and only having five months before I have my child. She told me ‘no,’” Allen said. “I felt like everything was OK. I had talked to my boss, and she let me know that everything would be OK. I would still have my job.”

But five months later, when the time came to take her leave of absence, Allen says her supervisor told her she would be terminated but could reapply later on. She says she tried to come back to work three weeks after her child was born, to no avail.

“I was like, I can’t get fired,” Allen recalls. “She can’t terminate me because I have to go have my child. I started asking everybody on the job, ‘Can they do this?’ And even the assistant manager who had just got hired [said,] ‘No, that’s not right.’”

Hobby Lobby did not respond to multiple requests to tell its side of the story or to answer questions about its maternity leave and other company policies.

When Allen applied for unemployment benefits, she says Hobby Lobby’s corporate office gave the unemployment agency a false version of events, claiming she could have taken off personal leave but chose not to. In the end, Allen says she won her claim for unemployment benefits, but she felt she had been wrongly discriminated based on the fact that she was pregnant. In February 2012 she sued Hobby Lobby, but her lawsuit was swiftly dropped because, like most—if not all—Hobby Lobby employees, Allen had signed away her rights to sue the company.

Though the multibillion-dollar, nearly 600-store chain took its legal claim against the federal government all the way to the Supreme Court when it didn’t want to honor the health insurance requirements of the Affordable Care Act, the company forbids its employees from seeking justice in the court of law.

Allen had signed a binding arbitration agreement upon taking the job, though she says she doesn’t remember doing so. The agreement, which all Hobby Lobby employees are required to sign, forces employees to resolve legal disputes outside of court through a process known as arbitration.

Arbitration has many benefits: It is usually vastly cheaper than litigation, and often allows parties to stave off potential reputational damage by settling disputes in private.

Hobby Lobby is in the minority (albeit a growing minority) of corporations that require employees to sign binding arbitration agreements. These agreements are more commonly used by corporations in consumer product agreements.

In recent years, as more companies have favored employment arbitration over litigation, the practice has garnered widespread criticism as being less fair for employees. Companies like Hobby Lobby claim that arbitration is better for both parties because it tends to take less time and money, and usually employers are required to cover employees’ legal fees.

Alex Colvin, a professor of conflict resolution at Cornell University and an expert on employment arbitration, agrees that arbitration tends to be much shorter than litigation, which can drag out for years, but he says the system is unequal and disproportionately favors corporations. In a phone interview, he told RH Reality Check that corporations generally institute an arbitration-only policy out of fear of widespread lawsuits and to keep information on disputes out of the public eye.

“I think it’s an interesting confluence here with Hobby Lobby being in the news with that big case, but if that were an employment case where an employee wanted to make a claim, we would never see that case at the Supreme Court because it would be stayed in arbitration,” Colvin said. “So, ironically, Hobby Lobby gets to go to the Supreme Court because they want to challenge this, but their own employees don’t get to go to court.”

He estimates that approximately 25 percent of corporations have mandatory employment arbitration policies. His 2011 empirical study on employment arbitration outcomes in the United States, published in the Journal of Empirical Legal Studies, found that the employee win rate (approximately 21 percent) and award amounts (median $36,500; mean $109,858) among more than 1,200 arbitration cases decided between 2003 and 2007 were significantly lower than the employee win rate and award amount among employment litigation trials.

Colvin says it’s common for lawyers that generally represent plaintiffs’ claims not to take arbitration cases because they’re harder to win and the awards tend to be smaller than in lawsuits. This rang true for Allen; her lawyers at Watson & Norris PLLC in Jackson, Mississippi, declined to pursue her arbitration case.

To be sure, Felicia Allen is only one among the thousands of employees who have worked for Hobby Lobby since the early 1970s, many of whom have likely worked for the company without issue. And, to be clear, it’s only her side of the story.

According to federal court records, over the years, several employees have filed job discrimination lawsuits against Hobby Lobby claiming age, disability, race, and sex discrimination—which is common for many corporations. But due to the fact that Hobby Lobby avoids lawsuits and the fact that little information about arbitration cases is made public, it’s difficult to evaluate the company’s treatment of its employees beyond its assurances that they are paid above minimum wage and well taken care of.

“Christians Are Not Free to Sue Other Christians”

One thing that sets apart Hobby Lobby’s arbitration policy from most corporations is its allowance for Christian-influenced arbitration. The mutual arbitration agreement Allen signed gives employees the option of choosing to find an arbitrator either through the nonprofit American Arbitration Association (AAA)—the largest dispute-resolution service provider in the United States—or the Institute for Christian Conciliation (ICC).

The latter is run by a Billings, Montana-based nonprofit called Peacemaker Ministries and administers “Christian conciliation,” which is a form of religious arbitration described on its website as “a process for reconciling people and resolving disputes out of court in a biblical manner.” It’s a type of conflict resolution geared toward churches and Christian organizations. (Jewish and Muslim organizations use similar types of religious arbitration to handle disputes.)

Among the principles that drive Peacemaker Ministries is the idea that:

Generally, Christians are not free to sue other Christians, at least not until they have exhausted the process that Jesus sets forth in Matthew 18:15-20 and 1 Corinthians 6:1-8. God instructs Christians to resolve their disputes within the church itself, with the assistance of other Christians if necessary.

Allen, who now has four children and works at Xerox while pursuing an associate’s degree in accounting, says she was never aware that she could pursue arbitration—neither the secular nor the Christian kind.

And despite the outwardly Christian appearance of the Green family, which owns Hobby Lobby and is currently attempting to build a bible museum in the nation’s capital, Allen says she did not witness many acts of Christianity at her store or from her corporate managers.

“How can you be Christian and lie about something to hinder your employee or don’t want them to come back after they’ve had their baby?” Allen said. “Or you’re taking up for your manager knowing that they had done the wrong thing. I feel like that’s not being Christian at all. That’s why I don’t even shop there anymore. I used to shop at that store all the time.”

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To schedule an interview with contact director of communications Rachel Perrone at rachel@rhrealitycheck.org.

Follow Sofia Resnick on twitter: @SofiaResnick

  • dudebro

    If abortion was illegal, then surely companies would cave under pressure and start tearing pregnant women fairly, right?

    • StealthGaytheist

      Bwahahaha. You’re a funny one.

      • dudebro

        Its a serious argument made by a poster on Secular Pro Life. That abortion is actually holding women back in the workplace, because why have a baby if you can just abort?

        • StealthGaytheist

          That’s like claiming husbands and government benefits are holding women back in the workplace, because why get a job if you can live off a husband or government benefits.

          Sadly not all secular people are rational.

          • dudebro

            She’s a catholic I believe.

            Buy they post on SPL.

          • StealthGaytheist

            I see.

        • BruceMcGlory

          There’s your problem. Thinking that anything that comes out of our “secular pro-life” is a serious argument.

          • dudebro

            Lol.

            It was presented as a serious argument: p

        • VeggieTart

          Right, because this country has such great policies and programs to help moms who have to work outside the home.

        • sabela13

          Because she wanted the child and typical Christian values fired her for doing so. I know it is a hard concept but that is why it is called CHOICE

        • https://www.facebook.com/smitty.pa.795?ref=tn_tnmn SmittyPA

          Why have a baby if you can just abort it? Um… wanting to have children and be a mother. Duh.

        • DonnaDiva

          Yeah, because that was totally the case before abortion and birth control were legal.

    • fiona64

      That was the resident SPL AngryGirl(TM), Tullia … that girl has issues.

      • dudebro

        Elizabeth Doecke actually, a Christian pro-lifer who thinks she’s a goddamn genius.

        She came up with some hilarious analogies that abortion is akin to inviting someone onto your balcony and pushing them off, and that when they ‘grab your hand, you disengage, allowing them to fall to their death’.

        I pointed out that this is a terrible analogy, because hey, choosing to have sex while female isn’t the equivalent of throwing someone off a building to their death! Her response was to inform me that due to my low intelligence I had ‘trouble’ with analogies.

        She then stressed, greatly, how she is such a ‘scientist’ (med student) and how she hates, just hates, naturalistic fallacies. Then she proceeds to explain that sex is consent to pregnancy because ‘once a natural physiological process has started, you can’t stop it. For example, you cannot stop digestion. You have consented to digestion. It’s the same with pregnancy’.

        She also complained when I compared an unwanted pregnancy to rape and assault, because hey, pregnancy is NATURAL, it is a physiological process, and all those other things aren’t natural! Also, the fetus really doesn’t take all that much from a woman during pregnancy. I mean, if you have to eat a little bit more to ‘feed’ the fetus, it doesn’t really matter right, because you always have to do a bit more if you are extra busy or something, right?

        • nnyl

          If she gets through medical school, she’s going to give patients inaccurate information.

          • dudebro

            Why? Because she thinks that pregnancy isn’t a medical condition because its natural?

          • nnyl

            Fetus doesn’t take all that much from a woman? Pregnancy can cause anemia and other problems for the mother. In some cases the fetus takes the mother’s life.
            Sex in and of itself is not consent to pregnancy; pregnancy is more a side effect of sex, but one that is easily prevented.

          • dudebro

            Yep.

    • https://www.facebook.com/smitty.pa.795?ref=tn_tnmn SmittyPA

      Under pressure from whom?

      • dudebro

        From women who could no longer get abortions!

        By her logic, contraception should ALSO be outlawed, because then there will be even more pressure to reform maternal discrmination laws!

  • StealthGaytheist

    I’ve noticed that while so many RW types venerate the fetus and pregnancy, they have zero respect for pregnant women and mothers.

    • VeggieTart

      Or the child once it has been born.

      • StealthGaytheist

        Of course. Once it’s born they can’t use it to control the woman.

        • dagobarbz

          Sure they can. You’re single with a child. This job is the only thing between you and a homeless shelter. You damn betcha they’re gonna use that against you.

          • Liz

            That’s why the push for eliminating minimum wage and reducing/eliminating social safety nets is so important to them. You can grow a lot of soldiers and slaves if you take away all of their rights, protections, and choices.
            They’re always stripping poor women of prenatal care for crying out loud!

          • dana becker

            that is the end game they are legislating toward.

          • BeAnn Stalnaker

            The “end game they are legislating toward” is even more insidious than most people can imagine. Republibans “end game” includes a theocratic plutarchy. Everyday their words and actions are indicative of their willingness to do whatever they deem necessary to achieve an America molded by their ideals. “We the People” need to continue to vigorously protect the right to vote AND exercise that right tirelessly. All the folks who only get energized to vote in presidential election years are losing ground during the off-year elections. ALL who believe in the promise of continued progress toward “a more perfect Union” that works for ALL of “We the People” MUST be vigilant in EVERY election.

            The danger of becoming a country controlled by those who espouse ideas supported by a minority of Americans is very possible. This is best exemplified by the fact that even though Republibans have control of the House of Representatives, they were elected by a minority of those voting in the 2012 election. The result has been a “do nothing” EXCEPT obstruct House that is NOT representative of the opinions of the majority of American people. Protect your right to vote, PROTECT AMERICA, vote for Democrats!

          • john silva

            We’ve seen what you mean by continued progress, no morals, chaos rules, no standards, a perfect union? now we have transgenders in the news, perfectly normal right? we’ve had 6 yrs of liberal policies and look around! we’re are in a mess. After what we’ve seen, I believe democrats won’t be running anything for a long time!

          • Traci

            You made a post in another thread about Christian values being attacked. So I assume you claim to be Christian. I’m wondering if those values include excessive use of the f-bomb, and insulting people? I don’t think Christ ever did that, in fact I know he didn’t. It isn’t loving. You seem to have hatred for liberals. According to Christ, they are your brothers and sisters. If you claim to love God, and hate your brother you are a liar. If you refuse to love your brother or sister who you have seen, how can you love God whom you haven’t seen?

            “now we have transgenders in the news perfectly normal right?”

            You know absolutely nothing about transpeople, or the issues related to us.

          • john silva

            I didn’t claim to be Christian, I said “whats wrong with being Christian” No I don’t want to know about Transgender, these people are a minute miniscule part of the Population and yet they’re part of the LGBT crowd. FACT: Gays 2.7% of the population! yet they’re pushing their agenda on all of us, why? Liberals! There’s a vast majority that don’t want our kids around that lifestyle. You have a president who changed his mind on Gay marriage to get votes! everybody knew what that was all about!

          • Kristen

            Your kids are going to be who they are no matter what. Being around a gay person doesn’t magically turn you gay. It isn’t a contagious disease. Are you going to lock your kids in the house 24/7 for the rest of their lives to keep them from seeing things you don’t like or understand? Keep them in a bubble so they never understand the things that are out there so they can become bigoted ignorant jerks as adults? What makes you think most gay couples act any differently than straight ones in public? Are you afraid your kids are going to see two people holding hands? If you are worried about PDA guess what…………straight people do it to. There is no difference between me kissing my boyfriend in public or any other two people as long as we aren’t laying down in the middle of the aisle at the store getting it on, which most people do not. You show yourself to be truly blissful with not knowing about other people and who they are which is sad. I am sorry for you. Here is a question, which I am sure you won’t answer genuinely because most people like you can’t. How would you feel if you weren’t comfortable with who you were and needed to fix it in order to be happy and you had all kinds of nasty people constantly putting you down and trying to make sure you don’t have the same rights they do? Did you consciously choose who to be attracted to? “hey today I am going to choose to be attracted to my wife but not tomorrow……..” I doubt it. It is a physiological response, you either are or are not attracted to someone, it isn’t something you choose. So why in the world do you presume it is different for anyone else? It isn’t.

          • john silva

            The proportion of which Hollywood portrays Gays is unrealistic. It seems there’s a Gay person on every TV show. Unrealistic! again 2.7% of the population. So, we don’t need it in our faces every time we turn around! I don’t live in New York or San francisco or any other Liberal stronghold pushing this agenda, I have nothing against Gays, but, when they continue to push their agenda on me and my family there’s going to be push back as you’re seeing all across America. And when we say we’re against that lifestyle we’re Homophobes, bigots, racist etc, etc, in the Liberal media. You are in the minute minority, but, to hear Hollywood tell it everybody is gay. Again 2.7% of the population!!!

          • Terri Corley

            You are a tool! No one is pushing anything on you. You are demoralizing equality. You are homophobic and a bigot. You just proved that

          • john silva

            No, I stated fact! you just can’t handle it!

          • Terri Corley

            No. You did not. You posted your extremely misguided, homophobic bigoted beliefs. Nothing more

          • Kristen

            He doesn’t get it, never will. Perhaps someone should go hang out at his house and tell him what he can and cannot do, who he can and cannot marry, kiss, or find attractive. Deny him his ability to take care of his spouse by sharing insurance or declaring her his beneficiary in case something happens. Sometimes people just need a taste of their own medicine. His parents obviously didn’t raise him with the “do unto others as you would have done unto you” rule. His kids will live at home until he is dead that way he can protect them from everything in the outside world and prevent them from thinking for themselves and being who they are.

          • Old Top Kick

            And the fact is that you’re a homophic bigot. At least admit that to yourself.

          • Kristen

            Ok first off, their “agenda” is the same as yours, get over it. To marry whom they love, and share their benefits and to make sure their spouse is taken care of if something were to happen to them. OMG that is so horrible. What makes you think that you deserve that right and they don’t? They are United States Citizens that pay their taxes are they not? Perhaps I don’t like your agenda, so in my opinion I don’t think you should be able to marry the consenting adult of your choosing. Nor should you have the same benefits I have. Yes, when you think you have the right to oppress others and deny them rights just because you do not like something, or do not understand it, makes you a bigot. It does. Sorry pal. They aren’t shoving anything in your face that straight people aren’t. They aren’t a different species, they aren’t contagious, they are human beings and should be treated the same as everyone else. Start doing that and maybe you won’t see so much about it. Ever think of that? Ever think about live and let live? You don’t like it, so what. I don’t like pork chops. Doesn’t mean they should be banned and never spoken of. Dang. Get a grip. Just because I don’t like other women doesn’t mean that women that do do not exist, and hey, more power to them. It doesn’t effect me at all, and two women holding hands is not different than a man and woman. Holding hands is just that, two people holding hands. It isn’t any more or less obscene just because they have the same stuff in their pants.

          • john silva

            Marriage is between a man and a woman. Nobody is denying their rights, this isn’t about the emergency room visits or anything like that. And I physically cringed when I saw Micheal Sam kiss his boyfriend on TV along with a whole lot of other people, that was a natural response! I Didn’t chose it, it just happened. There is a Gay agenda whether you want to admit it or not. Go to a muslim country and say what you’re saying to me. Go to Russia, these countries are a lot less tolerant than we are, in fact some will kill you for it! they’re humans too! or are the homophobes and bigots! What do you say to your muslim Brothers and Sisters?

          • Seer Clearly

            @John Silva, each of your posts makes it clear that YOU are the one with the problem, the one with the Adjustment Disorder. AD is defined as the inability to accept reality, which clearly applies to you. If you’re suffering, it’s a self-made purgatory, since what others do with their lives has no effect on your life unless you chose to interpret it that way.

          • john silva

            I accept reality, you the minority have a problem with the majority not agreeing with you!

          • Dez

            Actually you are the minority. Most straight people support marriage equality. You are the fringe with the racists that opposed interracial marriage. This is why you are losing every court case that has a ban on gay marriage. Seems the facts and the law are on our side. You have nothing but your bigotry.

          • john silva

            Well that’s a flat out lie! these decisions have overturned majority votes! people against! it’s liberal judges that have overturned the decisions.

          • Dez

            Nope. A quick google search will show poll after poll showing that the majority of Americans are for marriage equality. Plus the majority can’t vote on the rights of the minority. Unless of course you think we should have slavery since the majority wanted it. Also most of those judges were republican. Get your facts right. http://www.gallup.com/poll/169640/sex-marriage-support-reaches-new-high.aspx
            Where’s your evidence because I got mine.

          • Albert O’Day

            “The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts. One’s right to life, liberty, and property, to free speech, a free press, freedom of worship and assembly, and other fundamental rights may not be submitted to vote; they depend on the outcome of no elections.”
            —Justice Robert Jackson, in his opinion for WV Board of Education V. Barnette

            He knew it in 1943. Some issues should never be brought to the people for a vote.

          • Dez

            LOL. You apparently do not understand how our government works. The majority can not vote on the rights of the minority. Hint, interracial marriage and slavery. The majority was against it those to. Are you saying that you favor slavery and a ban on interracial marriage because the majority are for it?

          • fiona64

            Looks like yet another one who doesn’t understand how government works in this country. Hint #1: we’re not a democracy. Hint #2: Unconstitutional votes can and will be overturned as a result of the checks and balances inherent in our system.

          • ldean

            Are you negating you homophobic stance by comparing yourself to Russia/Muslim? … Fortunately, we don’t live there and that’s the point… and your first line is very incorrect – equal rights is VERY much about emergency room visits – that’s just ONE of the many issues that deserve equal treatment that only ‘married’ people are entitled to.

          • john silva

            Aren’t Russians and Muslims people too? or are they all Racist and bigoted also? they just won’t put up with your bullshit they’ed rather shoot you!

          • Arekushieru

            Yup, they’re bigoted just like you, yet your ilk ALWAYS fails to self-identify with them. Oops.

          • Arekushieru

            The fact that Russians and Muslims don’t treat gays equally is exactly the reason WHY we need to push for equal rights for ALL. Thanks for making our point FOR us, admittedly dunderheadedly. Usually, the ones who are homophobic, like you, are anti-Islamist, as well. Whodathunkit? Would you claim that there is a White agenda in countries like those that exist on the majority of the continent of Africa? Probably not. Double standards, much, AND a bigot? Why am I not fucking surprised?

          • Kelly

            John, your posts are irrational and all over the board. I’m not gay. I happen to live in an area that has more gay people per capita than most areas in the country… I do not have ‘gay’ shoved down my throat at every turn as you suggest you do. You seem a little drama driven perhaps. Might I suggest you find a constructive hobby, maybe something you can share with your beautiful family, so that you may be able to redirect your OCD focus elsewhere. Breathe John, we’re all in this together.

          • Blue Orion

            Good God, I cringe when I see straight people making out (well, generally I only cringe when it has gross sound effects), it doesn’t make me want to ban opposite sex marriage. From an asexual viewpoint here, anti-gay people are the pot calling the kettle black. Straight people display their straightness in everyone’s face all the time.

            Your cringing is no basis for legislation any more than anyone else’s cringing. And the only gay “agenda” is wanting to have one’s marriage recognized and to be left alone, and not discriminated against or beaten for being gay. And what makes you think anyone here tolerates Islamic homophobia?

          • john silva

            Typical Gay Liberal rant! Do you even know the context of which I was speaking? By the way you are not a Race of people you’re a special interest group. This is a Ultra Liberal site! so anybody who doesn’t agree with you is homophobe, bigot, Racist etc, etc,

          • fiona64

            Why is it that the bigots are always the first ones to tell others that they should go somewhere else? Perhaps YOU should go to Russia or a Muslim country, since you apparently believe that your opinions dominate there. I’m sure you’d be much happier.

          • john silva

            Wow, you just keep talking and talking, I don’t agree with you, period!

          • Arekushieru

            You do realize that tolerance of intolerance is still intolerance… right? Oh, I forgot, that would be too LOGICAL for someone like you.

          • rockmonster

            Then leave.

          • sonofroyrogers

            Translation: Too many words turn me off from the “hard work” of actually engaging you.

          • Kristen

            Oh and of course you made a point not to answer my question about when you chose to be straight and when you chose to be attracted to your partner. Does it change every day at will? Seems that is how you think attraction works. I will answer that question for myself to show you how that works. I am a straight female. I never chose that, one day while at the college world series I noticed how cute those boys on the field were. It wasn’t a decision, I didn’t have to think about it. It just happened. I met my boyfriend and instantly there was a physical attraction. It wasn’t something I had to think about, choose, or decide and it doesn’t change on a daily basis because I decide it.

          • Jarath Hemphill

            8.5 million people shouldn’t be seen is what you are saying? That is not including however many transgender people are in the United States. What number is big enough for you to consider them to be equal?

          • john silva

            300 million, the majority!

          • Jarath Hemphill

            Hell boy you aren’t even in the majority…might want to start worrying about someone taking away your rights.

          • john silva

            I beg to differ. Live in your fantasy

          • Arekushieru

            Sorry, pal, but Silva is not a ‘proper’ Aryan name, either. Clark, however, is. Which is my last name. Oops.

          • sonofroyrogers

            Mine too and I’d wager we are both sensible enough to be wary of the white man since we know, up close, what they can be like.

          • Arekushieru

            YUP. To tell you the truth I wasn’t sure about reading your response to my comment, considering your screen name, because I am not too familiar with what kind of person Roy Rogers is nor what the intent of the screen name was. But, now, I am SO glad I did. It’s nice to find someone who is like minded once in a while!

          • sonofroyrogers

            I take that name based on the fact that an entire,post WW 2 generation was raised on the dictates of Roy Rogers, Dale Evans, Hopalong Cassidy, the cleaned up Disney version of Davey Crockett, etc.
            In a Roy Rogers movie or the T.V. Show, bullying was frowned on, Roy would respect and get good ideas from the older folk,would be kind to the younger ones, and when the time came for action he would be in shape for it and put away the bad guy, not kill him, then take him to the sheriff to be tried by a justice system that worked, not one that favored the guy with the best lawyer.
            There was a schoolyard honor system as a result not the clique based, cyber bully mentality . Not everywhere of course but most places..
            Roy and Dale lived up to the image by the way, adopting kids from all over the world of every race.
            Our parents who went through the Great Depression as youth and went off to the War as young adults looked on with approval as we watched these shows. They had seen what the Progressive, humanistic principles of America could do. They would not have embraced a Cantor or a Cruz.
            Have a good, Romney free weekend.

          • fiona64

            Roy Rogers was a good man who walked his talk. He quit smoking because he didn’t ever want a kid who looked up to him see him doing so. Ditto drinking.

            He and Dale Evans adopted a number of special needs kids over the years as well.

            If you’re interested, I highly recommend reading “Happy Trails to You,” his memoir.

          • Seer Clearly

            @John Silva it’s self-important, pompous, and inconsiderate to hijack this discussion and turn it into a discussion about something else. This thread is about how Hobby Lobby is trying to further a right-wing Patriarchal anti-woman agenda under the guise of Christianity, and they were busted for doing it simply by revealing the truth. Hypocrisy cannot exist in the light of truth. This has little to do with gays except that the same RW agenda is also anti-gay – and just as hypocritical given that research has shown that homophobes like yourself are nearly 100% turned on by gay pornography… which makes you… gay.

          • john silva

            I didn’t I was responding to other comments, but now that you brought it up did you see the word alleged in the article? probably not! you already had your opinion formed when you read the headline. research has shown? first question, who funded this research? this had to be a Liberal quest, who else would be interested. Sorry, don’t believe you!Don’t worry though this is a Liberal site nobodys gonna see it except you few libs!

          • Arekushieru

            More RATIONAL people are Liberals than Rethuglicans. Wonder why that is….

          • fiona64

            Reality has a decided liberal slant.

          • fiona64

            Hey, dummy? In journalism, the word “alleged” is used when a case is still in court and the outcome as yet undetermined.

            No love, a former editor-in-chief

          • john silva

            Undetermined is right! reading the comments here the verdict is in and we’re on to the sentencing stage, Idiot -in-chief!

          • fiona64

            What an angry little boy you are. I think you need a nap.

          • Cathy Young

            must be an amazing thing to know everything about someone you have never met just on a few lines of comment. Really, you should have your own show, like Kreskin. I actually read, then form an opinion, but my opinions on hobby lobby were formed long ago when they decided to treat women differently than men.

          • Cathy Young

            @Seer Clearly John cannot see how the right wingers like hobby lobby is actually a real agenda, designed to strip one group of people of their rights. He won’t ever see things any other way. He thinks its ok to strip everyone of fights except those he espouses.

          • SadieLechner

            What agenda? The only LGBT agenda I can see is paying rent, buying groceries, making sure their kids get good educations, that sort of thing. An agenda is a list of things to be done. Having equal rights is something that must be done, something morally right. What’s wrong with that? It makes no difference if a minority group wants equal rights – that is for everyone, and the percentage of the population makes no difference. “”And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.'” If you’re going to be all Biblical, consider the entire Book.

          • Dez

            You forgot to include the LGBT allies which would make us the majority and you the minority.

          • MamMel

            Equal rights should be everyone’s agenda. I’ll pray for you.

          • fiona64

            What’s this “gay agenda” that the homophobes seem to know all about, but that my GLBT friends and fellow straight allies are in the dark over? Perhaps you can enlighten me.

          • Old Top Kick

            One cannot enlighten with a dark mind. He’s just a sad anachronism.

          • Traci

            “There’s a vast majority that don’t want our kids around that lifestyle.”

            Before we go much further, I have to ask this:

            My “conduct”; also known as my “behavior or my “lifestyle”

            I spend a lot of time with my computer, because that is one of my passions. It’s the only thing I’m really good at. I tend to stay up late because I’m a night owl. I also spend a lot of time with my roommates and their kids. Not to “convert them” as a lot of you seem to believe, but because I love them and love spending time with them. I’m helping the kids learn to read, it’s very rewarding. No, not “gay propaganda”, the last book First Born read to me was about a mole that couldn’t find his shadow. Watching them grow and learn is fascinating and very exciting. So the meme that we hate kids, and are trying to indoctrinate them is BS (if we hate kids, why would we indoctrinate them??)

            Ok. so anyway I also help my roommates around the house with cleaning and what not, and watching the kids when they need to go out somewhere. I also have friends I keep up with, and talk to because I care about them so very much. They are life savers in every since of the word.

            That’s really all I do, aside from eating, sleeping, showering and other things. The other things, just to calm your fears involve waste removal, and I’m not going into detail about it.

            If you’re concerned about “what I do in bed”, quite frankly, that’s none of your business. But for full disclosure, I’ll tell you, please forgive the next sentence for being gratuitously graphic:

            It’s a bed, I sleep there.

            So that’s my “conduct.” My “behavior.” My “lifestyle.”

            Would you care to point out, IN DETAIL, what you find so objectionable? What bothers you so much? What is so offensive as to deserve disownment?

          • john silva

            I didn’t say you hate kids, you did!

          • ldean

            That is NOT what she wrote.

          • Traci

            Please read what I wrote, and try again. Also, I’d like to know what’s wrong with my lifestyle. I love munchkins. Ok, not all. I love certain munchkins. Well, I do love all munchkins, just not like I love the ones I know, like my roommate’s munchkins.

          • john silva

            I don’t have a problem with you if you’re gay, so be it. What I don’t like is the politicalization of it and what they call the Gay nazis. It seems they are intent on making us accept it like it or not. I’ve worked with Gay people, In fact I worked a clinic (I’m an x-ray tech) where 3 out of 5 guys were gay. They didn’t push it on me and this is before it became totally political. You seem like a decent person so, I have nothing against you or your lifestyle, I thru a lot of s#@t at you and told you if they push, there is going to be push back! and there is!

          • Arekushieru

            Just like we’ve been made to accept and like heterosexuality for how many thousands of years? Btw, my sexuality is a bit more complicated than you might think. And after reading this you MIGHT (though not likely considering your bigotry) wonder why you’re so up in arms about ‘simple’ homosexuality. I am asexual/asensual. I am andro-demiromantic heteroflexible, and I am andro-erotic/aesthetic I identify as both agender/ciswoman with leanings toward neutrois. So, please do tell me what makes me less ‘unnatural’ than gays or lesbians?

          • Terri Corley

            This ‘they’ you speak of? You are choosing to allow this to affect you. It’s a choice. You have chosen. You can choose again.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You seem like a decent person so, I have nothing against you or your lifestyle, I thru a lot of s#@t at you and told you if they push, there is going to be push back! and there is!
            ………….
            A fantasy about gay men pushing and John pushing back? John is not gay. Nope. John does not think about homosexual sex much. Nope. Not at all. Never.

          • Arekushieru

            Oh, the ‘irony’, seeing as how the shit that has been pushed on gays and lesbians by the heteronormative crowd for DECADES is not supposed to garner push back, but somehow gays and lesbians ‘pushing’ their lifestyle ‘onto’ you, is. Bigoted double standards is still bigotry, btw.

          • Alexandria

            John – you keep using the phrase “keep pushing it in our face” or “pushing their agenda on us” but that’s entirely accurate. Nobody is asking you to become gay, nobody is asking you to get married to a same-sex partner, nobody is asking you to have gay sex.

            The problem is that gays want to be treated as equal citizens in the eyes of the LAW. To be blunt: keep your religious views away from my government. This is America. Contrary to popular belief, this is NOT a Christian Nation. We are religiously diverse nation. There are about 43,000 different denominations of Christianity worldwide (according to the Center for the Study of Global Christianity). So, given the first amendment is that of freedom of religion, that would make it pretty hard to choose which denomination we would be following if we were a Christian Nation.

            I’m LDS (Mormon), how would you like it if I forced my religious beliefs down your throat? My guests is that you’d cry out that I was infringing on your right to freedom of religion. And you’d be right. That’s why I don’t do that.

            The same arguments that were used in the fight against interracial marriage are the same ones being used against gay marriage. My children & grandchildren will be thinking the same thing of the bigoted views of the christian right wing tea party republicans. That it was wrong and they’ll wonder how it wasn’t obvious that everybody, straight, gay, same race, interracial, etc, should all have the free marry legally whoever you choose.

          • john silva

            I saw your profile well, you’re not offensive, I was being bombarded by 6-7 other people on this site so I didn’t take the time to look at you, my fault. You seem very genuine and likeable.

          • Traci

            Thanks John! I really appreciate that! <3

          • ldean

            If gays are just 2.7% of the population which you think is minute, why would a president risk “changing his mind” for a minimum number of votes? I don’t understand your logic. Our president was brave to take the stand that he did – he had more to loose by doing it.

          • john silva

            2.7% it just came out a couple weeks ago, check it out. Obama isn’t brave it was a total political to keep the liberal base happy!

          • sustantivo

            Hey, Udumb … simpleton. If you believe that his pandering to the gay lobby only nets him potentially 2.7 percent of the vote, you’re even dumber than we already knew you to be.

            Gays have friends, family, neighbors, co-workers and a whole passel of others who thinks it’s mondo cool of the Prez to now cynically support gay rights.

            Please tell us you’re not that freaking stupid.

          • skeptic888

            What agenda? A flash word if ever I saw one. Like lifestyle. Being gay or bisexual or lesbian or transgender does not connote a “lifestyle.” Urban cowboy might be a lifestyle. Soccer mom might be a lifestyle. Hipster might be a lifestyle. Sexual orientation or gender identity are not lifestyle choices. Heterosexual is not a lifestyle. You throw out words like agenda and lifestyle to be dismissive, to avoid having to deal with the fact that even if there are only 2.7% of the population that are gay, you want to make it OK to discriminate against them. Would it be less OK if the percentage were 3.4? 5.8? 15.6? What you call an “agenda” is a long struggle to acquire the rights and privilges that have been automatically granted to others simply because they happen to have a mainstream sexual orientation. Seeing a gay man or a lesbian couple will not, I guarantee, turn your son gay or make your daughter a lesbian. If this happens to be his or her orientation, they may see this as affirmation and that will hopefully lead to greater self-acceptance, but it won’t turn them into something they’re not. Condemning anyone for changing their mind because they’ve acquired new insight only points to your own narrowmindedness. Many staunch anti-gay activists have “changed their minds” when a son or daughter of theirs came out, or committed suicide because they couldn’t find acceptance in themselves or their loved ones. Think first about the damage you do.

          • rockmonster

            It’s not a “lifestyle”, it’s not contagious, and all you have to do to explain gays to your kids is say that they love each other just like Mom and Dad do. They don’t want to ban heterosexual marriage, just get married and have the perks that marriage comes with.

          • dana becker

            No one is pushing any agenda except you John and those who think their opinions trump someones rights to choose who the hell they want to choose to commit to “take care of each other till death do we part”.. The gays are pushing for rights denied due to agendas of people like you who think your opinion is worth more than someone else’s just because you disapprove.

            The disgusting thing about it all is that you don’t even know the very people whom you show such contempt yet you want to dictate how they live their lives.

          • ansuz

            Trans* people are perfectly normal, tyvm.

          • dudebro

            You’re not normal. But that’s because you like kittehs!

            Every day I ask myself “dude, bro, how can you subject yourself to a kitteh?”

            The thing is, kittehs..you can’t live with them…and you can’t live with them!*

            —-

            *cuz kittehs r bad

          • ansuz

            The future Kitteh Ansuz (artist’s interpretation):

            http://www.cfainc.org/portals/0/Images/breeds/DRex/profile1.jpg

            *tries to write song about kittehs, to the tune of ‘Reindeers are better than people’*
            Attempt 1, entitled ‘Kitties are better than people’
            Attempt 2, entitled ‘Kitties are better than homework’
            Attempt 3, entitled ‘Kitties can help you with homework (if they feel like it)’
            (okay, I never actually got past the titles)

          • dudebro

            Looks vaguely similar to mine. Big ears!

          • ansuz

            Yep :)
            They come in all different colours, though. And they only have an undercoat of fur, which is generally curly.

          • Traci

            kittehs roxxors

          • Victor Weisbeker

            Denying that there are not transgender people is rediculous

          • bart4u

            Sir you seem to have a lot of problems. Not everyone in our society is the same has you. Just because someone is different you have a problem with them. You are very homophobic and are a bigot. Christians are one the biggest group that tries to force their values upon others. I think this world would be a lot better place without religion. Every religion thinks their way is the right way and if others disagree with their way of thinking than they start to hate each other. When this happens to the extreme wars are started.

          • john silva

            Sir, you don’t seem to know what you’re talking about. It is you that’s intolerant and bigoted. It seems you’re anti-christian, I’m not Christian, I know a lot of family’s that are and they get along just fine. It’s when somebody disagrees with the Lefts ideology that the name calling starts, Racist, homophobe, bigoted. The left seems to fall all over themselves when it come to muslims, and, you’re quick to dismiss Christians. This Country is a Christian Nation and I don’t see anybody going door to door trying to sell it to anybody. Unlike the muslims who will just kill you for it! and please don’t lecture to me, to me you’re just a koolaid drinker!

          • Jennie K. Diller-Daniels

            Hate to break it to you, but the US isn’t just a Christian nation. Never has, never will be, since there isn’t a state sanctioned religion.

          • Arekushieru

            Ugh, seriously, there is a REASON that Christians don’t have to go door to door selling their religion to everybody like their Muslim and Jewish counterparts. Because they are NOT discriminated against. It’s so obvious I wonder why even YOU missed it when you (albeit erroneously) called the US a Christian Nation? Btw, that’s COMING from a Christian.

            And, yes, there ARE still Christian factions that go door to door selling it to people. Jehovah’s Witness, Victory Church, Mormons, etc…. ALL of them are Christian. In fact I have never ONCE seen a Muslim trying to sell Islam to ANYONE. Hmm, wonder why that is…?

            And how would YOU like it if you lived in a country where white people were the minority and persons of colour were the majority and all the rules benefited persons of colour, and they decided to invade another country with the same proportionate ratio of persons of colour:white. Would you think those white people were WRONG for radicalizing or would you agree with them? See, that’s what makes you a fucking BIGOT.

          • emptyspiralforever

            What exactly is wrong with transgendered individuals, might I ask?

          • Miranda Loomis

            Mr. Troll,

            How do you do? Thank you for the entertainment this fine evening.

            I’ve read a great amount of your posts. I belive that you are completely incorrect, intolerant, full of hate and probably gas, and that you’re free to have an opinion.

            This country is great and has potential to become greater. The fact that killing happens in the first place just because someone’s view or religion is horrible.

            If you want to change this country, speak up. Vote at local elections. Don’t vote based on the party, vote on their agenda. Actually get off your butt and do research. That is what is wrong with people today. It’s all about greed and lazyness.

            Honestly, PDA of all types makes me uncomfy. There are plenty of children needing adoption, so sexual or orientation really doesn’t bother me. I don’t my kids around such intolerance. I want to teach them to look past petty labels and become a well rounded individual. One that won’t be held back due to greed, labels, or intolerance. I want them to fight for their freedom, it is only a generation from being lost and let’s face it, my generation messed up.

            Bottom line Mr. Troll, instead of trolling on pages were you disagree with the article why don’t you use your energy productivly. Oh wait, I forgot, Trolls like to talk big when in reality they lack the passion to actually try to change the world.

          • dana becker

            Oh so because we are no longer losing 700,000 jobs a month we are in a mess? It seems to me we WERE in a mess now the economy is actually ADDING jobs. You must have a warped sense of what a mess is. You also seem to suffer from amnesia. How convenient for your hate and willful ignorance.

          • JohnnyD

            Ah, yes. The old “the world was perfect, people lived in harmony, cats and dogs got along, there was no crime, and kids respected their elders, until the day YOUR GUY took office” line.

            Also: the fact we fly nonstop across the Atlantic in a few hours isn’t in fact the outcome of years and years of scientific learning, experiment, and development, but rather of American Airlines having invented manned flight 5 years ago. Complete with lousy meals. No really, it’s true!

            Nothing takes place in a vacuum, except perhaps your thought processes (literally? Figuratively? Both? You be the judge).

            Keep that up, and I’m sure we can find a place for you at the petting zoo. They have history books there too, so you can read all about the 10000 or so years of totally moralistic, non-chaotic, utopia which existed until the day Obama came along and ruined everything.

            Enjoy!

          • Arekushieru

            Sorry, but being transgender IS normal. Grab a clue.

          • john silva

            In Laboratory setting, I agree!

          • Arekushieru

            In Laboratory setting? Do you know how disgusting you just made yourself sound?

          • john silva

            What you are is abnormal (and that’s being polite) You’re a freak , the people you hang with are freaks, not because of wanting to change identity it’s for all the headline grabbing, the bizarre behavior, “look at me I Want to be in your face whether you like it or not attitude”! You keep forcing your views on people that are against them! Just sayin

          • conversate

            Crack is whack, honey.

          • Arekushieru

            Nope. I do not want to change gender, freak. Since I DID tell you what my sexual orientation and gender identity are, ALREADY, you SHOULD know that. Thanks for proving what an ASS you are, though. And, maybe, just maybe, they wouldn’t be ‘pushing’ themselves into your face whether you like it or not, if YOU weren’t pushing, ACTUALLY pushing, your ATTITUDES onto them all the time? Just sayin’. OOPS?

            Also, headline grabbing? You DO realize that most of the headlines are about white heteronormative people like yourself, right? The fact that SOME of the headlines are about people who don’t fit into this ‘norm’ is now taking their FULL attention away from you, is upsetting to you? Wow, come out of bizarro world and live in Reality Land some time, freak.

          • Barbara

            SPOT ON! VOTE, people, VOTE. The Repubs in congress are hurting our beloved country and they will NOT leave voluntarily! As mentioned above, VOTE in EVERY election…it is crucial to the success of our country.

          • cantfry55

            For crying out loud, its a Hobby Store! Don’t like it, don’t work there and don’t go there! That’s called FREEDOM. You can always go to Walmart, Michael’s and even Amazon to get your Hobby Crap.

          • Arekushieru

            Oi, why are you people so obtuse and illogical? So, Hobby Lobby’s employees don’t have freedom of religion. Last I checked that’s NOT freedom. It’s also discrimination since you are forcing the EMPLOYEES to take responsibility for something that was imposed on them by the EMPLOYERS??? After all, many of them may have started working there BEFORE Hobby Lobby decided to change it’s policy. I say change precisely because before the ACA was introduced Hobby Lobby had NO PROBLEM WITH THE EXACT SAME POLICY. Maybe we should change your name to cantthink55?

          • dana becker

            It is like you took the very words from my head. I feel exactly as you. Let’s hope there are millions more like minded voters come Nov.

          • Glendal L Harris

            Liz, who exactly is pushing to eliminate minimum wage and stripping poor women of prenatal care. WE NEED NAMES IF WE’RE GOING TO MAKE THEM PAY.

          • Jerry Masters

            The Koch Brothers.

          • Glendal L Harris

            Jerry, quick, give us your references so we can use that evidence to make those mean old Koch brothers pay. We need that evidence now. Where did you get this information that the Koch Brothers are pushing to eliminate minimum wage and stripping poor women of prenatal care. WE NEED THAT EVIDENCE.

          • jiggajames

            Jerry is a liberal, he doesn’t have any facts. in other news, ‘JERRY! You got to see the baby!” andddd that was my Seinfeld reference for the day.

          • PirateWoman

            A simple google search using “Koch brothers anti minimum wage” returned 11,000,000 links. Do your own homework and pick one.

            “We want to do a better job of raising up the disadvantaged and
            the poorest in this country, rather than saying ‘Oh, we’re just fine
            now.’ We’re not saying that at all. What we’re saying is, we
            need to analyze all these additional policies, these subsidies, this
            cronyism, this avalanche of regulations, all these things that are
            creating a culture of dependency. And like permitting, to start a
            business, in many cities, to drive a taxicab, to become a hairdresser.
            Anything that people with limited capital can do to raise themselves up,
            they keep throwing obstacles in their way. And so we’ve got to clear those out. Or the minimum wage. Or anything that reduces the mobility of labor.”
            Charles Koch, 6/21013

          • sonofroyrogers

            Is that Glendal I see, going down in flames?
            Good one.

          • john silva

            Hey follower, that last comment goes for you a swell!

          • sonofroyrogers

            Forty folk evidently disagree with you.
            Besides I expressed no opinion of my own regarding the post but commented on the effectiveness of someone’s rebuttal ( look the word up)
            So your comment makes no sense.
            By the way isn’t, “a well” a hole in the ground?

          • Glendal L Harris

            OK, I used that, and there is absolutely nothing about the Koch brothers trying to do away with minimum wage or stripping poor women of prenatal care. There is a lot of information about the Koch brothers being against raising minimum wage to something unsustainable. Maybe that’s what you mistook for something that supports your argument.

          • kjnick

            Apparently you have never heard of the Koch brothers. They are strict libertarians which means they against government intervention at any level. Especially if it has any affect on their profit margins.

          • hmc8432

            She’s heard of them. She’s defending them. She must be one of those ever-so-clever righties who never, ever concede that you might have a valid point. She asks for evidence, you give it to her, she dismisses it. “Debating” anything with them is pointless.

          • Barbara

            I agree! I found it an astonishing opportunity to pass even more information about the KOCH brothers on to other readers and posters. ;)

          • john silva

            It’s how you people interrupt the evidence. Glenda actually read it!

          • Arekushieru

            Nope, he’s the only one who HASN’T read it.

          • awake108

            And their ultimate bottom line is they want freedom to pollute the environment with the poison from fracking and the Tar Sand of Canada. Right now they are fighting the city of Chicago because of uncover mountains coal slag. They want to privatize the profit and socialize the mess. Check out the destruction of the land at the Tar Sands and the Koch brother own most of the leases.there

          • Bruce Basile

            Hey idiot the Kochs fund groups who`s main purpose is to do the things mentioned. STFU !!!!!

          • john silva

            Bruce you STFU! Moron! Drink the Koolaid jerk and chase it with a cyanide capsule. You’re just somebody who wants to look like they have an opinion. Yeah the big bad Koch Bros want a dirty enviroment, dirty air, just like those’s darn Republicans and get this, they want dirty water too!!!

          • Bruce Basile

            Glad you understand,stupid !!!

          • Arekushieru

            Much like Mark Choi, you can’t read, can you.

          • PirateWoman

            So why did the Charles Koch Foundation spend $200,000 in Wichita, KS on an anti-minimum wage ad campaign? Or join the fight against Seatac, WA’s minimum wage hike?

            http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/07/10/2280101/charles-koch-minimum-wage/#

            http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/11/27/seatac-minimum-wage-raised-15/

          • john silva

            Have you ever heard that hiking the minimum wage actually causes a decrease in minimum wage jobs?

          • Bruce Basile

            No only idiot right wing dummies believe that . The states that raised the minimum wage have seen higher job and economic growth than those who didn`t you dope. Do some reading and turn off Fox, Brain Thrust ! hahahaha

          • john silva

            Go back to your pipe! it’s obvious you know nothing about anything, done talking to you!

          • Bruce Basile

            Good idea I don`t want to compete with the voices in your head they may get mad ! hahahaha

          • Seer Clearly

            Well the last refuge of someone who has no argument is to attack the opposition personally. It proves you have no good argument, other than mindlessly repeating what you’ve been told to say.

          • john silva

            You mean like everybody else on this site?

          • Arekushieru

            Nope, JUST you and maybe Bruce.

          • Seer Clearly

            @JohnSilva, you’re misconstruing basic economics. It might make sense from a simply supply and demand view, but most minimum wage jobs have *inelastic* demand (that’s second semester economics LOL) It means that they will be filled even if the salary demand is higher because they are not economically optional. For example, McDonald’s won’t hire less workers if their minimum wage is raised since they don’t want to close their stores, and people don’t want to stop eating hamburgers. Your analysis is too simple to be correct.

            In addition, other countries with higher minimum wages don’t observe the effects that you have asserted.

          • Barbara

            If you care to, read the posts I just made above. You will have PLENTY of information to understand that most of the posters on here know how devastating the KOCH brothers are to every one of us.

          • john silva

            Yeah right! Let’s talk about George Soros and his agenda! How are you affected by the Koch Bros?

          • awake108

            Just remember the Koch use many stealth Pacs to also speak for them Look that up too while you are at it

          • sybilgooch

            Agree that regulations are what is hurting so many. Government regulations, state and local government as well.

          • PirateWoman

            Charles mentioned hairdressers as oppressed by regulations to keep them from realizing their goals.
            I’m a hairdresser/salon owner. The regulations I’m required to abide are public safety regs, which have changed a bit over the years, but IMO, do not go far enough. The chemicals used are under regulated. Many should be banned. Much safer products are available. Chemical products in hair salons are regulated in European countries, so they use products that are much safer, and far superior than the average American consumers have dumped onto their scalp.
            The products used in my salon are imported, cost a bit more, but have increased my profits. Even Americans are willing to pay a more for their long term health considerations, and the immediate gratification of beauty.
            Charles and David believe the educational requirements and licensing of hairdressers by the states is unnecessary. Would you want proven cancer causing chemicals applied to your mother’s head by someone with no training or testing? Think about it……

          • john silva

            Do you understand at all what has been said here? apparently not, you perceive it as a negative.

          • Don C

            Glenda, just like the reporter of this story, Jerry relies on assumption,lies and misinformation to gather his opinions. I saw the investigative reporter title behind the author of this hit piece and had to chuckle a bit. Should say opinion reporter behind her name. Facts should matter more than anything to an investigative reporter, but obviously agenda trumps fact.

          • Arekushieru

            Lacking proof but still claiming fact-based evidence. You know what that’s called, right? ASSumption.

          • Pamela Vida

            No evidence needed–the Kochs have $$, and that is all that is necessary to viliify them.

          • AnglesWithFlies

            How much is Hobby Lobby paying you to shill for them?

          • WhichWitchisWhich

            All you have to do is go to any of the various sites that list corporate, individual and PAC donors to political candidates and parties. This is a matter of public record, most of it available online. You can even discover who the contributors to the PACs are. Then study the voting records of the candidates they or their corporate entities have supported, as well as their statements on these issues, bills they have introduced or co-sponsored and so on.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            That would take brains and intellectual integrity. That is not Glenda.

          • ultrawiz

            Not as badly as you need a clue.

          • astroguy54

            Glendal likes to control women.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Evidence? You been sleeping in a box in the basement? You do not own a TV? Or watch the news? And you come to discuss politics on a politics board. Boy are you stupid.

          • mlegibson

            See “Sons of Wichita” by David Shulman. They are extreme libertarians and believe in no regulation of the markets or business.

          • Bruce Basile

            Try looking it up yourself stupid !!!

          • Barbara
          • Barbara
          • Barbara

            Bernie Sanders lays it out well:

            http://www.sanders.senate.gov/koch-brothers

          • Barbara

            Check out my posts just now for info on what the KOCH brothers want…and have been wanting for years. Nearly everything the repubs are pushing for, the brothers have been seeking for many, many years.

          • Traci
          • Cannahelpit

            E V I L personified!

          • Substance22

            Wrong, Koch is a great employer, paying very fair wages and benefits. they do expect performance though. I have several friends who work there. Perhaps the next boogie man?

          • Jerry Masters

            Hooey.

            The Koch Brothers are the Heirs to the John Birch Society. The most extreme Right Wing political group in America. They spend Hundreds of Millions of dollars promoting their agenda: Turniong America into a Oligarchy ruled by Them.

            See:
            The Koch Brothers and the John Birch Society: Wrecking America One (tax free) Think Tank at a Time

            at:

            http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/02/10/1185265/-The-Koch-Brothers-and-the-John-Birch-Society-Wrecking-America-One-tax-free-Think-Tank-at-a-Time

            The Heritage Foundation, The Cato Institute, American Legislative Exchange Council, (ALEC) Americans for Prosperity, the Club for Growth, the National Rifle Association, the American Enterprise Institute and the Tea Party.

            Put it together and you have exactly what the Birchers longed for: a dismantled safety net, a federal government 40% of its current size and a free-for-all, laissez faire economy where the rich pay no taxes, business has no regulation and the workers have no unions.

            The government will be tiny, but what is left will control
            your personal life, your sexual preference, your fertility and your civil rights and your right to vote.
            Welcome to the right wing future.

          • Substance22

            Seriously, the Daily Kos? Come on.

            Is it not the Koch’s right to speak as Americans for free enterprise, low taxes, and libertarian values? Nothing wrong with that. And liberals have their own mouthpieces and sugar daddies.

          • nel

            The entire Republican party sir.

          • Glendal L Harris

            nel, exactly which legislation has the Republican party sponsored that would eliminate minimum wage and strip poor women of prenatal care? We need that information if we are going to stop them in time. EXACTLY WHAT ACTION DID THEY TAKE TO DO THESE HORRIBLE THINGS?

          • WhichWitchisWhich
          • Glendal L Harris

            And I’m supposed to believe anything that MSNBC or (and especially) Rachel Maddow has to say. If that is your source of news, you are in serious trouble.

          • WhichWitchisWhich

            Another poster here just provided the same story, from Fox.

          • Trevor

            Could be worse; could, like you, rely on Fox NOT-News !

          • sonofroyrogers

            NO, you are supposed to believe everything Dick Cheney says.

          • ultrawiz

            I’ll put Rachel’s PhD up against your GED any day of the week. Since your news source is the smoke being blown up your butt by Fox your BS opinion isn’t worth squat.

          • Glendal L Harris

            maddow’s broadcast on 16 Aug, 2013: “This is Viviette Applewhite. She was 92 years old when she started fighting the state of Pennsylvania for her right to vote. Republicans in that state passed a new law last year that would block you from voting unless you showed documentation that you’ve never had to show before and that hundreds of thousands of legal voters in the state do not have, including Viviette Applewhite.”

            Tell it to the Philadelphia Inquirer, Rachel, which accompanied Mrs. Applewhite exactly one year to the day before your broadcast, and watched Mrs. Applewhite apply for and easily and immediately receive the required Pennsylvania ID.
            You don’t suppose maddow was lying, do you?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I live in PA. There was a serious push to disenfranchise voters in the State. When you actually know something about my state, I will let you know.

          • JKess

            George W Bush spent 5 years looking for voter fraud. Out of 200+ million votes cast in that time period he found all of 86 cases. Not 86 million, not 86,000…86.

            WHen the Pennsylvania GOP got asked by a judge in court what evidence they had that there was widespread voter fraud or any voter fraud their answer was that they had no evidence.

            You don’t suppose the Republicans are lying about the need for voter ID, Glenda?

          • astroguy54

            Keep going, glendal. You are TOO funny and clever! Try making some pouty faces.

          • Citizen13

            I see recognizing actual Journalism is beyond you.

          • WhichWitchisWhich

            Every state that has voted to cut or eliminate funding for Planned Parenthood and other wellness programs for women is on that list, for starters. And sorry, buddy, bu the Republican Party does not sponsor legislation. Members of elective bodies do that, not political parties. Individual GOP members of Congress and state legislatures have been arguing more and more lately for elimination of minimum wage. Trent Lott is one of them. I’m surprised you don’t know that.

          • Glendal L Harris

            I’m a little surprised that you didn’t know that Trent Lott hasn’t been in the Senate since 2007. But good try. Keep up the informative narrative.

          • WhichWitchisWhich

            Oops! You have me there. Well, then, how about Tom Coburn? Rand Paul? Honey, the list is long, and getting longer every day. But you don’t care. You’re just a troll.

          • Zeller

            You can’t really be this stupid can you? Try Doug Lamborn of Colorado. Proposed seven bills to eliminate the minimum wage.

          • Glendal L Harris

            Well, Zeller, I just searched the internet and I can’t find anything that indicates that Doug Lamborn proposed any bill that would eliminate the minimum wage. Maybe I missed something, but if you would please give us some text, any kind of reference that we could see that you are not a liberal liar, we would appreciate it. And don’t get me wrong, I have not dog in this hunt. I don’t even know who Doug Lamborn is, I just think you are a liar.

          • Pamela Vida

            I adore you!!

          • astroguy54

            Oh you’re just so clever, glendal. Do keep us entertained!

          • oilcanp

            Wellness is killing kids?

          • P. McCoy

            Abortion and contraception kills No One! But the Republican and Libertarian right wingers’ policies against women and children DO kill people!

          • astroguy54

            Phony glendal.

          • cheeriogirl

            Google Paul Ryan eliminate minimum wage, then sit dOwn. I think you’re in for a shock Glenda.

          • Bascoda

            Pick your Republican of choice, then add the evangelical “Christian” right wing, and just for grins throw in the talking heads at Fox News. Is that enough names for you? If not, how about the entire staff of “Operation Rescue,” which has since been re-branded as “Operation Save America.”

          • Callie

            And take the time to read the books: American Theocracy and The Good News Clubs. Do the research. And vote out ALL Republicans. They have sold their souls to the “devil.”

          • Bascoda

            Absolutely. Scary reading, that. I’m fortunate to live in a state where the Republicans haven’t figured out a way to mess with the voting.
            Oregon – we have 100% vote-by-mail. I’ll see you at the ballot box.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            And their DEM fellow travelers. I am not voting for the “prolife” Dem Brendan Boyle. I will write in Margaret Sanger of vote for his Repub opponent should he get one.
            And the DNC needs to get the message. Time to do a Mississippi McDaniel job on his head.

          • Sportsfan3

            Are you saying that the Good News Clubs, which are lead by individuals, not teachers or principals, should be banned from the school systems? These are for after-school for children that want to participate. They have the right not to attend if they don’t want to.

          • Scape_Goat

            Two examples republicans that have professed to get rid of minimum wage: “Congressman Joe Barton of Texas wants to rid the country of the minimum wage. Barton’s not the only lawmaker to hold such a view. Senator Lamar Alexander (R-TN) is another. http://radio.foxnews.com/2013/12/06/republican-congressman-i-would-vote-to-repeal-the-minimum-wage/

          • WhichWitchisWhich

            All you have to do, Glendal, is pay attention to the voting records of members of Congress and of state legislatures. In the current debate about increasing the minimum wage, there has been blowback from the far right suggesting that the overall economy suffers so much from a minimum wage that wage earners themselves are better off without it. Which is hogwash. Many poor women depend upon Planned Parenthood and free clinics for prenatal care. As you must surely know, the far right has managed to eliminate or drastically reduce funding for many such clinics (especially Planned Parenthood) on the grounds that they may counsel women concerning abortion. A number of them have closed permanently. Pay attention, Glendal.

          • harryw45

            Paul Ryan for one, also most of the Republicans in the House of Representatives.

          • Citizen13

            The GOP.

          • cjus2473

            The Republican Party…the Koch Brothers have stated over and over and this is echoed by those in Congress that this should be a free market environment and allow the employers to decide the wage…$1.00 per hour or $15.00 – they feel that the government should have no say in this….and in states run by Republican Governors – The Supreme Court ruling on the Affordable Care Act (ACA) allowed states to opt of the law’s Medicaid expansion, leaving each state’s decision to participate in the hands of the nation’s governors and state leaders. In these states run by Republican Govenors, and the Republican majority in the state Legislature have unanimously rejected the Medicaid expansion, although Democrats have introduced legislation (HB 3791) that would establish a strategy to expand Medicaid.
            This means that women who fall inbetween qualifying for aid under the Affordable Care and make too much to qualify for the Medicaid expansion cannot get healh insurance…GLENDAL – MIGHT WANT TO STOP YELLING…and learn to Google

          • PirateWoman

            GOP red state death panels.

          • Victor Weisbeker

            The Kcoh Brothers, ALEC, Art Pope.

          • Substance22

            That is so silly. Hobby Lobby pays wages way above minimum. All this leftist whining about the private sector businesses that are the bedrock of the country’s economy. You know there are communist countries to move to that will take care of you. At poverty level, of course. But if it’s security rather than freedom you want… please feel free to move.

          • Izzy66

            Next comes the forced burka wearing and the return of witch burnings. When 2014 sees our U.S. government allowing religion to marginalize half the population over their “unseen, undocumented, so-called religious fervor over a hard-won contraceptive battle won 30 years ago… Don’t laugh. Current Women-Hating is white hot in American business and rampant among far too many American Men. Taking away safe, affordable and quality reproductive care is just the beginning…

          • cantfry55

            Slaves? Conscripts? Really? Where? Check your calendar.this isn’t the eighteenth century.

          • George

            As will the liberals use it against that single mother.

          • Ted Eggleston

            How is that George that liberals use a single women with a child against her. How about some specifics instead of just dumb ideology that doesn’t make sense.

          • kimberlyclark

            Conservative can’t find anything good to say about Hobby Lobby so you just lash out at liberals and single mothers with words that don’t make any sense. where does that kind of hate come from? go to Hobby Lobby and buy a cross made in China by a woman forced to have an abortion, maybe that will make you feel better.

          • jason lost

            you just dont get it—go back in a cave and snort some conservative smoke

          • Laffy

            Ain’t irony wonderful……….

          • Glendal L Harris

            Actually, I can find many good things to say about Hobby Lobby. They offer good pay, good benefits, a clean environment in which to work. If you want to see who spews hate, take a look at what the libs on here are posting. That’s hate.

          • AnaV

            Says someone who calls women “sluts” for wanting access to birth control.

          • Glendal L Harris

            Actually, I don’t call women anything for wanting access to birth control. My wife used birth control, as did my mother, and my daughters. I support birth control. However, and I know I am old, but all of them paid for it.

          • AnaV

            When you post something on the internet, it will remain there, even after you forget saying it.

          • Jarath Hemphill

            Do or do they not pay their premiums as employees for Hobby Lobby? So in fact these women have paid their portion of the costs for that birth control. What you have is a sexist desire to deny one sex something they paid for because of religious reasons while not denying the other gender vasectamies….which stop reproduction you know.

          • Angela Monger

            Good benefits? The woman got fired for having to take time off to have a baby.

          • LInda

            According to the Family Medical Leave Act, she had not worked long enough to accrue the time off. Amazing how this article simply ignors that!

          • WhichWitchisWhich

            That was not the issue. The woman was told she would not have any problem, then when she acted on that good-faith understanding, she lost her job and the company even fought her claim for unemployment benefits. If Christ were still in his grave, he’d be flipping in it.

          • Nita Ostroff

            the woman SAYS she was told that. Because of confidentiality of employee records, HL can’t defend themselves.

          • Jarath Hemphill

            By whose choice? You mean where HL requires employees to sign forms saying they cannot go to court where it becomes public knowledge?

          • Patricia Williams

            Um..no, the article does note that she was not employed long enough to qualify for FMLA.

          • Dave_TX

            The article did not ignore that fact that she had not worked long enough to qualify for leave. Perhaps you did not read the article. The problem revolves around the fact that her supervisor or manager told her at 4 months she would not be fired for taking some time off to have the baby when the time came. This would not be a story if she had not been fired contrary to what she had been told.

          • astroguy54

            Her manager assured her she would be okay 5 MONTHS before she was fired, moron.

          • Pamela Vida

            The article clearly states her concern, once she learned she was pg, that she HAD NOT workt long enough for FML……………she knew she did not qualify, so hoiw is HL at fault for abiding by the FMLA rules????

          • George

            Because Christians are supposed to do more than the minimum. Do you not know that the law will be written in the heart, not merely on tablets of stone? Did you not learn the parable of the Good Samaritan?

          • Citizen13

            Here, let me help you get that log out of your eye…..

          • Pamela Vida

            AGAIN I ASK- how is it HL’s fault, since HL is merely abiding by the FMLA rules??? I see you attempting to bludgeon HL(and me) with biblical values. The rules for FMLA are “tablets of stone”, and must be adhered to.

          • PhattElvis

            Clearly Glendal is in an alternate universe.

          • kimberlyclark

            Hobby Lobby cares about one thing – Money. They fire a pregnant woman yet refuse to pay for birth control? Everyone in the country no knows what hypocrites they are. You are one of a small minority who is sticking to their Christian tale that let’s them manipulate people anyway they want as long as it saves them a few Christian dollars. Really, everyone gets it but you.

          • Glendal L Harris

            You are a liar. Or one of the low information voters who can be manipulated easily. Either way, you lie. Hobby Lobby offers their employees 16 different types of contraceptives absolutely free, or at least Hobby Lobby pays the insurance for those contraceptives. You need to get off the Comedy Channel and MSNBC for your news and try doing a little research.

          • AnaV

            Says someone who “likes” Fox News. Really Mr. Glendal Lee Harris? You use your full name to go online and insult people. Your birthday, home address, and phone number were easily found in less than a minute. Not to mention your family and their information. See this as a helpful warning.

          • Glendal L Harris

            AnaV, you must have me mixed up with someone else if you think I am afraid of some lowlife slime like you. And if you really found my address, and you want to follow up on your threat, come on over. Even to my kids houses. Just remember, this is a 2nd Amendment state and we believe in standing our ground. That goes for my entire family. See this as a helpful warning.

          • Mo Reno

            A “Second Amendment state?”

            Dolt, the Second Amendment applies to ALL of the States.

          • Glendal L Harris

            Hey Mo, you dolt. Some states support it, some don’t. Believe me, this state does. You dolt.

          • Marilyn Fenner

            Is that all you know how to do is call people names ???

          • Glendal L Harris

            Actually, Marilyn, if you pay attention to my comments, I only use the names they used first. And don’t whine.

          • Mo Reno

            I’m really anxious to know where the Second Amendment isn’t being properly “supported,” whatever that means.

          • john silva

            Hey mr. Reno Pick on me you child molesting mother fucker!

          • Mo Reno

            Why? You don’t even matter. You honestly think this is the first time someone has called me an inapplicable name?

            Heh. That’s so precious.

          • sustantivo

            Mo Reno means “Me luv some yung boyz” in Japanese.

            Freaking pedo.

          • Mo Reno

            So, you suck at Japanese AND logic. I’m not surprised.

          • WhichWitchisWhich

            That is nonsense on its face. You may believe it, but there is no state that may arbitrarily choose which parts of the Constitution it wishes to obey. Oh, they may try, but that doesn’t last long. Someone always blows the whistle. That’s America for you.

          • sustantivo

            You are a Grade A moron if you believe the 2nd amendment gets the same treatment in all states.

            Did your Mother have any children that lived, fool?

          • AnaV

            I see you fully understand the warning. A bit surprised how easy it is to find that information? I’ll be kind and not post it here (though anyone can easily find it via a quick google search). One could do much more damage via the interwebs than by breaking into your home. Guns and the training you received in the military will not be of much use then.

          • Glendal L Harris

            Like I said, come on over. We’ll see how much use it will be.

          • AnaV

            Stop with the threats. Texas is a bit of a trip for me. Especially when the internet is so useful. I’d start making internet security a top priority.

          • john silva

            I’d start making plans to leave the country! Heard of the FBI. You’re making terrorist threats and I’ve reported you to DISQus and now I’m going further, also I’ve printed your threats. Have a nice day. Hope your bail isn’t too high!

          • Jodi Jacobson

            Mr. Harris. Are you threatening harm to people on this list? Please clarify explicitly.

          • Glendal L Harris

            No you idiot, just responding to a threat. Is that clarified explicitly enough for you?

          • AnaV

            As I said earlier, no threats. I have no hate for you, regardless of differing opinions. Please reconsider how you conduct yourself on the internet for your own security.

          • sustantivo

            Oh yes, they were actual threats. I have captured them for evidence should Mr. Harris wish to file charges against you. You are quite possibly the biggest dumbass I have ever encountered on the web.

            Here’s something to consider – you better hope he and his don’t have an unfortunate situation any time soon, rather your doing or not. At this point you’ll be the prime suspect, and Disqus records will be subpoena’d to track you down.

            It’d be funny if it wasn’t so sad how you make your threats in regards to knowing who and where someone you disagree with is, but fail miserably to grasp how you just put a huge bullseye on your own back.

            Typical liberal – idiot.

          • john silva

            Glenda, I’m reporting Ava V through DISQUS

          • Glendal L Harris

            Thank you. I think she may have some sort of mental instability problem.

          • john silva

            I’m reporting you! that’s not a warning I’m doing it.

          • Traci

            MOMMY!!!!!! SOMEBODY’S BEING MEAN ON THE INTERNET!!!!

          • john silva

            If somebody is that Stupid to post their threats, It’s just as easy to report them, and it’s no skin off my back!

          • Traci

            I wouldn’t say they are stupid. Irresponsible and maybe a little “touched” but not stupid. I agree with you here, I was just picking on you in jest. It’s actually good to report people like that. Most people are harmless, but you really never know.

          • john silva

            OK

          • sustantivo

            Traci, just stop. These threats were real and deserve to be taken seriously.

          • sustantivo

            AnaV – does someone need to explain to you in explicit terms how unbelievably moronic it is to threaten a conservative, pro NRA person on the web, while knowing your only backup is likely a whole flock of progressives who don’t know which end of a gun is up?

            You’re one of the dimmest bulbs I’ve seen on the web in years.

          • jiggajames

            YEEHAW!!!

          • redfoxglove

            Oh, the discussion doesn’t go your way so you pull out a gun. Nice. Typical.

          • JJ

            Threats from a PhD ADJ PROF? Real classy

          • john silva

            Hey Fuck you! come to my house!

          • sustantivo

            AnaV = pedophile and dog humper.

            To say nothing of how they threaten the well-being of others on the internet.

            Coward for sure.

          • dudebro

            So, from what I can gather, you’re an idiot.

          • Glendal L Harris

            What’s the matter little dudebro, did I hurt your little liberal sensitivities? I notice you have reverted to calling names rather than debating, so you obviously have nothing to contribute. Go away little man.

          • dudebro

            Don’t talk down to me little lady. Learn your place.

            Barefoot and preggers, in the kitchen.

          • AnaV

            Glendal is surprisingly a man’s name. It is less surprising when you consider the anti-women stance he takes.

          • Ruth Anne Mak

            You are really showing yourself to be a hateful person. How sad for you that you seem to believe what you are saying.

          • kimberlyclark

            Every item in Hobby Lobby says Made in China on the bottom. In China, for many years, until this past year, women could have one child and then was forced, against her will, to have an abortion if she had a second pregnancy. During that time Hobby Lobby had ALL their merchandise made in China to save money for American Christians. Christians saved money by forcing women to have abortions. This is documented. This is true. Hobby Lobby is not Christian, they are the height of hypocrisy using Christianity to save money by forcing women, kicking and screaming, to have forced abortions. This is all FACT. Just because you won’t accept the truth doesn’t make it wrong. Hobby Lobby is a fraud. They were complicit in killing unborn babies so Americans could by plastic Jesus figurines at a bargain price.

          • PirateWoman

            The xtian right is all about force. From conception until death, it’s their way or you’re a murdering heathen.

          • Zeller

            Very well put Kimberly. Baby killing Hobby Lobby and their baby killing customers. Chrisitan principals by Hobby Lobby is nothing more than a marketing slogan to fleece baby killing fools from their money. If they could make more money off devil worshipers, then they would change their baby killing tune in a new york minute.

          • kimberlyclark

            I hope you are not being ironic, because you are absolutely right. This is not about religion, it is about money. Otherwise Hobby Lobby would close on Sundays. Fat chance!

          • sustantivo

            KC not so bright …

            From the HL website:

            Store Hours

            All Stores Closed on Sunday

            WEEK DAYSWEEK DAYOPENCLOSEMonday9:00 am8:00 pmTuesday9:00 am8:00 pmWednesday9:00 am8:00 pmThursday9:00 am8:00 pmFriday9:00 am8:00 pmSaturday9:00 am8:00 pm

            Formatting sucks but you get the gist.

            I’m not surprised you are too stupid to know this.

          • minni

            womwn having only one child, you must be talking about JAPAN so most people have abortion if they find out they are having a girl cause they all want to have a boy. Either way that is china n japan, it is not the U.S.A. Hobby lobby has several managers for different departments. She does not say if the the manager that she claims told her that was the same manager that told her not to come back to work. Either way, the affortable care health insurance same as obamacare is illegal, that is what THE SUPREME COURT said like a few days ago. To me that means if it means if it is illegal now, it was illegal then. She should have quit n found herself another job.at that time. Besides she settled her case, Get over it.

          • kimberlyclark

            What I grasp from your poorly written scawlings is that you don’t understand that Japan and China are different countries. I’m talking about China because that is were ALL of Hobby Lobby’s products are made there by women working for slave wages. China had a one child policy and physically forced women to have abortions against their will. This is fact. Then they were sent back to the assembly line to make crosses for Hobby Lobby. An abomination of Christianity. You are right that in China there is a huge black market abortion industry aborting female babies because they make less when grown. This is one of the things that is being referred to as the Republican “War on Women” get it? Christians buy cheap Jesus trinkets made by abused women. And they don’t dare. I don’t think you care. I care. That’s why I’m a Democrat. We believe in equality. Stop listening to your husband. What does he know, or care, about women? If you go to church Sunday you will befoul a sacred space with your sins against women.

          • minni

            kimberlyclark, I see that name when I go to restrooms on paper holders, anyway I do understand when we go to the mall alot of stores most of their items are made in china. Purses everywhere are made in china. Go thru your closet n u will see made in china.. We hardly have anything made in the U.S.A. So it is not only Hobby Lobby stores that have made in china. And you are just pissed off cause you wanted Hobby Lobby to lose in the SUPREME COURT. SO GET USED TO IT. You democraps lost. Like I said get used to it. That is what I got from your democrap crap. Yoohoo.!!!!!
            Yoohoo….

          • kimberlyclark

            I’m talking about irony, you rude young man. I KNOW everything is made in China, but it doesn’t have to be. When you buy cheap goods from a country that forces abortions and then try to control the Birth Control your company provides. One is for financial reasons and one is for religious? Really You believe that? These people a cheap, evil, manipulative liars. You really don’t get the irony? Ask a friend to explain it to you.

          • minni

            I do not have a husband, n I do not believe there is a WAR on women, You democraps keep saying that to brainwash women n get their votes, You are just like pelosi, still lying all on the way to hell. I am surprise she has not melted with all that plastic, does she ever blink r is she not able to. bye

          • kimberlyclark

            What does that have to do with Hobby Lobby paying Chinese slave labor to make Christian goods? Workers who are forced to have abortions and often abort female fetuses because they are of no value. This is what the “Christian” Hobby Lobby support? and all you can talk about is Nancy Pelosi’s face? You got nothing.

          • minni

            NO, all you have is nothing cause you are going crazy about someones job n what is happening in another country when have the democrats n your prees. opening admitting voting to even killing babies after being born in this country which is the worst sin you can do just because this little human beings are an inconvenience. Do not waste my time you have blood in your hands and you say you care for children no you do not. The babies are being slaughtered because of you n your caring democrats. democracy haha we are suppose to be a REPUBLIC.

          • Saaby000

            But the two they don’t want to pay for are not abortion pills. Not according to current medical practices

          • Elli Ferguson

            Actually, they covered Plan B on their insurance prior to filing their “it goes against our sincere religious beliefs lawsuit”. In the lawsuit they said they didn’t notice… really sincerely held belief that one forgets about until convenient.

          • redfoxglove

            There was also an article by truthdig or unitewomen that quoted the owner of Hobby Lobby stating that all of the forms of contraception had previously been included in the employee insurance, prior to the lawsuit

          • PirateWoman

            The IUDs they don’t want to fund are also not abortificiants.

          • kimberlyclark

            Doctors are the only people that should be making medical decisions with their patients. Employers need to stay away from their workers vaginas.

          • Glendal L Harris

            Damn, you liberals just love to fantasize about your employers getting next to your vaginas, don’t you? I suspect most employers wouldn’t want to get anywhere near that nasty thing.

          • redfoxglove

            You are a nasty mouthed low brow. Why don’t you quit trolling and go watch some Fox news? It’s obvious your loud talk is not convincing anyone here. We deal in facts.

          • john silva

            Hey you little twerp, STFU. You wouldn’t know the first thing about facts you f*#$ing Moron

          • Ruth Anne Mak

            Then why do they insist on trying to interfere with private medical decisions?

          • ultrawiz

            So your way of fighting back is to be a total dickhead. Nice…but still doesn’t explain conservatives obsession with controlling women’s vaginas. Probably because you haven’t been near a vagina since a vagina had you…Oedipus complex?

          • Glendal L Harris

            Damn, ultrawiz, you have a witty sense of humor. However, most conservatives really don’t want anything to do with a liberal vagina. They have survived so far without a STD, so why give in now.

          • minni

            Really after living a very Loose life never know much gambling w/std etc.

          • john silva

            Do the Liberals even claim you? or are you on drugs? Again you’re a complete Idiot!!

          • kimberlyclark

            I have an IUD. Hobby Lobby considers that abortion. Do you even care? If you weren’t ugly, women would fuck you and you would have to worry about birth control. so many dudes who are too gross to get laid turn to Christianity. Get porn. trade one fantasy, for another.

          • john silva

            I could give a shit about your IUD, do you work for Hobby Lobby? And actually I’m a good looking guy, no trouble getting women. Conservative women seem to be much smarter and alot better looking then Liberal women, and you don’t have to listen to stupid liberal ideas. Now Christian men are all into porn? wow, it seems you hate Christians, you hate men from the sound of it, play you out a little and the truth comes out!

          • kimberlyclark

            You’re right, it all comes out. I am a man.

          • john silva

            With that I’ll say goodnight!

          • Callie

            It is time these invasive hypocrites are sued for practicing medicine without a license. They have NO business legislating their immorality on their employees or on fellow citizens. When they have MD licenses, and set up medical practice, they will have the right to decided about birth control and or abortion and not before!

          • kimberlyclark

            You are a very smart woman Callie. Keep up the fight!

          • Terri Corley

            Wrong. They don’t cover 4 out of 20 contraceptives that they falsely believe cause abortion. Women need birth control for a myriad of reasons. The employer cannot mandate what an employee uses their health insurance to purchase.
            Providing health insurance is a federally mandated requirement.

          • Glendal L Harris

            And Hobby Lobby provides health insurance just like the federal mandate requires. The only thing different is they do not pay the insurance company to provide 4 out of 20 contraceptives. They do, however, pay the insurance company to provide the other 16 contraceptives, and they do not forbid their employees from paying for the other 4 if they want them. They do not mandate what an employee uses their health insurance to purchase, they just don’t pay the insurance company to provide those 4 contraceptives, therefore, the insurance company will not provide those 4 contraceptives because they won’t get paid for them.

          • redfoxglove

            Nice dodge

          • Terri Corley

            What part of federally mandated health coverage do you not understand? What part of many women need different types of reproductive health medicines do you not understand? What part of “no, only I get to make my reproductive health choices” do you not understand?

          • Terri Corley

            Do you even realize how much an IUD costs out of pocket? $1,000!! For the low income woman, that is about what she would earn in 3 months. Your way thinking, and denying, is despicable and unfounded. If you are a woman, then be for women. Seriously.
            HL covers Viagra, cialis, vasectomy’s and penile pumps. Truth.

          • john silva

            1,000 in 3 months i’d get another job! Hobby Lobby pays well plus great benefits maybe you could help her get a job there! Glenda is a women, and she sure as hell doesn’t need to be stupid like you, you give women a bad name you ignorant POS!

          • Terri Corley

            What are you even talking about? Go back from whence you came

          • lorimakesquilts

            That’s just for the device. It takes at least one visit to the doctor, possibly two, neither of which will be covered. So the most effective methods and the only emergency methods were made unaffordable by anyone trying to live on HL wages, even if they are “generous.”

          • Ruth Anne Mak

            They are paying for them. They are paying for health insurance. You are wrong here. Just wrong.

          • WhichWitchisWhich

            Glendal, you may not realize that the best choice for contraception for most women is the IUD. For women who have a family history of high blood pressure, doctors will typically advise that they not use the hormonal kind, but to opt instead for the copper IUD — which is one of the 4 contraceptive methods specifically named by Hobby Lobby as abortifacients, though medical science does not indicate this is true. The out-of-pocket cost for the copper IUD is about $1200, plus the cost of office visits. Very few Hobby Lobby employees can afford this. That is not good health care coverage. It is religious tyranny.

          • john silva

            For most women? that is a flat out LIE!! I work in the medical field I have a family practice right next to my office, I talk with the Doctors male and female, and, medical science does indicate they are abortifacients. Stop lying!!!

          • Terri Corley

            How many IUD’s have you had fitted, John? You are really making me laugh. You know nothing regarding women’s reproductive health. Lol

          • ansuz

            The copper IUD mostly kills sperm. There’s no evidence that the rate of loss of zygote (in the event that sperm actually meets egg) is any different with copper IUDs vs. no contraception.

            Also, copper IUDs have very few medical contraindications, and pretty much the only side effect is that it can make periods more painful.

          • redfoxglove

            You work in the medical field? I bet you answer the phone and make appointments. Your expertise is zero.

          • Traci

            IUDs prevent fertilization. No fertilization = No conception. No conception= No implantation. No implantation=No pregnancy. No pregnancy = No abortion.

          • Glendal L Harris

            First of all, if you check costhelper.com, “For patients not covered by insurance, an IUD typically costs between $175 and $600 for the device, insertion and a follow-up appointment.” So let’s not exaggerate. Secondly, If you qualify, and most liberals being on government assistance would, Medicaid or other state programs may significantly lower the cost of getting an IUD. Thirdly, and this is why HL doesn’t want to pay for them: “In the United States, there are two types of IUDs available: ParaGard, which is wrapped with copper to prevent pregnancy and Mirena, which releases low doses of the hormone progestin. Both types of IUD affect sperm movement — preventing sperm from fertilizing eggs — and change the lining of the uterus. The IUD with progestin also can prevent ovulation. It is possible that both types might prevent a fertilized egg from implanting. These are the FACTS folks.

          • WhichWitchisWhich

            Those facts do not equal abortion. The only way an implanted fertilized egg can be consciously aborted by using an IUD is if the device is inserted within hours of fertilization for that purpose, which is pretty far-fetched. For this one infinitesimally rare possibility, women of Hobby Lobby should be denied access to one of the safest and most effective forms of birth control? One that may be the only reasonable choice for some women with family histories of high blood pressure and other heart diseases? The copper IUD is not the low-cost version you are talking about. It ranges in cost from $900 to upwards of $1200 in most cases, just for the device itself, not including the physician’s office visit prior to and after insertion. Yes, of course, there are some clinics where it may be had for less, but since the religious right has succeeded in getting so many of them closed down, we might as well talk full freight.

          • PhattElvis

            It is also wage theft. Coverage of one’s health care needs is an EARNED benefit. HL should then give the women back the cash value to them of the coverage HL has arbitrarily taken away.

          • john silva

            Glenda, these people are Haters!! they lead miserable lives, they don’t deal in facts or truth.

          • PhattElvis

            Wrong again as usual. The Supreme Court’s all male majority went on to issue a clarification that their ruling in Hobby Lobby covered all closely held corporations wishing to ban ALL contraceptives on “religious” grounds.

          • Terri Corley
          • Ruth Anne Mak

            Umm..better not call people liars. Your facts are wrong and your bias shows.

          • Glendal L Harris

            Umm, Ruth, exactly which facts are wrong? And be careful, don’t let your bias show.

          • Pamela Vida

            dumbass—HL offers co-pay for 16 different types of BC.

          • WhichWitchisWhich

            That is true. But the four that the will not cover include IUDs, which provide the safest and most effective form of birth control for most women. Some use hormones, which will be contra-indicated for women who have high blood pressure or a family history of heart disease. For them, the copper IUD is the better choice. The copper IUD costs about $1200 (plus doctor’s office visits). A Hobby Lobby employee who wishes to, or must, avoid pregnancy would have to pay out of pocket for that. I assure you, most could not.

          • Pamela Vida

            My point is that HL does pay for some BC. Condoms are cheap, too, and offer poretection from both Pg, and STd’s……………..

          • john silva

            You are a complete Idiot!

          • kimberlyclark

            You are very articulate in stating your position.

          • john silva

            Thank you, I try.

          • kimberlyclark

            no you don’t, you’re too stupid to try because you have nothing to say other than you hate women and Obama. I can at least read between the lines. dufus

          • john silva

            When did I ever say I hated women? there are a lot of women that don’t agree with you, but, they don’t count do they!

          • Saaby000

            They are good to some but not to others. We call that discrimination.

          • Glendal L Harris

            So, where are the civil rights lawyers? I know if there is even a hint of making money on discrimination suits, the scum lawyers would have court action going in every state. Are you sure there is discrimination going on?

          • PirateWoman

            Read the article before your opine.

          • Glendal L Harris

            Hey PirateWoman, I was responding to Saaby000. Try to keep up, will you?

          • AnaV

            Did they give you a discount since your birthday is this month?! Add that to the discount for being over 60 and you get some pretty good deals, yeah?

          • redfoxglove

            AnaV, ignore sir Glendal and he will go away. He’s a troll. Got nothing better to do than try to refute facts and good sense with name calling and pulling a gun.

          • Ruth Anne Mak

            Except you are just so wrong it is laughable.

          • WhichWitchisWhich

            Most workers at Hobby Lobby earn less than $13 per hour. Try living on that. Especially try living on that if you have high blood pressure and wish to postpone pregnancy while enjoying the good, clean Christian recommendation to have a healthy sex life. Themost safe and effective birth control method available to you will be the copper IUD, which your great benefits at Hobby Lobby will not pay for because the company’s owner has confused “prevents implantation of the fertilized egg in the uterine wall” with abortion, so you have to come up with $1200 cash for that protection. Your willful ignorance is appalling.

          • Callie

            Hobby Lobby also over charges for heir cheap products made in China, a nation that supports abortion! They are pure hypocrisy in action.

          • Zeller

            Or you can just flip to a random page in your christian bible. plenty of hate spewing there. I take it that is where you learned to spew your hate.

          • astroguy54

            Read the referenced article, glendal. Now don’t you feel stupid?

          • Glendal L Harris

            No, exactly what should I feel that way about. And congratulations on actually reading something.

          • Citizen13

            Stop confusing justified criticism for hate. Hate is denying homosexuals equal rights, firing a woman for being pregnant when you claim to support Family Values (oh wait, that’s just BIBLICAL HYPOCRISY).
            You are so ignorant of this topic, you don’t even know when the Supreme Court has screwed you along with everyone else, by undermining the Establishment Clause.

          • kcponte

            You don’t even make sense, George.

          • GuessWho

            of course he doesn’t – nothing does in your echo chamber of bad political ideas and hating on America -

          • rossbro

            Yeah, spew out that right wing bullshit about single mothers and poor people. At least most liberal people care about the child after is is born, unlike most Repubs.

          • Glendal L Harris

            Maybe so, but that leaves very few for libs to care about, because they abort most before they are born. Unlike most Repubs.

          • jason lost

            Glandal–you are sooo confused you must be a great conservative/idiot and poor

          • Glendal L Harris

            Actually, I am conservative. However, I am not poor, have never been because my family taught conservative values which dictate that you are responsible for you own economic condition, not the government. Therefore, you work. And as for being an idiot, apparently you can’t even spell a word when you’re looking right at it. (My name, idiot, my name.)

          • warriorgoddess

            Hey, you know who else works? The US military. You know who is quickly becoming the biggest group using food stamps? Bingo. Now, piss on the soldiers and let’s see how far that gets you.

          • Glendal L Harris

            Geeze, warriorgoddess. You guessed it. I was in the Army for 30 years. And, I enjoyed almost every minute of it. As for pissing on soldiers, nope, only the left did that. I saw it when they came back from Viet Nam. And as for being the biggest group using food stamps, I call BS. Yep, some are on food stamps, that’s not new. Some were on food stamps 40 years ago. But they are not now and never have been the biggest group using food stamps. Now, what are your credentials for being able to talk about the U.S. Military?

          • Cannahelpit

            30 years of brain atrophy make you a micro cephalic, more soldiers are on food stamps today than ever in the history of the US, and you are proud of that?

          • Glendal L Harris

            I can tell you are a lib because you seriously think of military service like that. But you are also a liar. Where are your facts? What is you reference that states more soldiers are on food stamps than ever in the history of the US?

          • Cannahelpit

            Pfffttt ,You’re just not worth it

          • AnaV

            How was the Netherlands? You and Dale had a good time?

          • Glendal L Harris

            I actually enjoyed it very much. As I enjoyed all my assignments.

          • redfoxglove

            Conservative = status quo = white man rules. So what? We’re taking it down, brick by brick, ugly white man with ugly thoughts and words. Deal with it. Oh, I forgot, you already dealt with it by verbally pulling out your gun.

          • warriorgoddess

            Bwahahahah. You are insane. You do know that being pro-choice means the right to make EVERY choice- not just for abortion, but you are too much of a narrow minded assberet to listen to that.

          • ThinkFirstThenVote2

            You are ridiculous and you know it. At my church, both the pastor’s wife and the choir leader’s wife have had abortions – and believe it’s wrong now – but they had them nonetheless. Teenage girls aren’t thinking about politics when they make those decisions.

          • Glendal L Harris

            That must be some church you go to. Sounds like the First Church of the Liberal Left.

          • Cannahelpit

            You are disgusting….

          • WhichWitchisWhich

            ???

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Nonsense. You do not know any liberals.

          • StealthGaytheist

            Good point. Then if you end up on welfare because you lost your job they use “lazy ass welfare mother” against you.

        • Deanna Albert

          I like your name, Stealth.

          And I completely agree.

          • StealthGaytheist

            Thank you.

        • elaine williams

          Isn’t that what dems do? Give her a little $$ to control her?

          • Mary Freeman-Croyle

            Oh Elaine, you equate what little that the Dems have been able to salvage for the poorest among us, and keep from the clutches of the GOP as they busily absorb all money into the coffers of the wealthy, as some sort of ‘bribe’? Really? We (thinking Americans) like to consider it the very least that we can do for those without until we can get those greedy, self-serving GOP clowns out of office for good!

          • George

            Mary, yes you “thinking Americas” give just a little to be sure that those people receiving are never in a better position than you. Such hypocrites!

          • Hoosier Native

            George, go suck a rotten apple.

          • jason lost

            he already must have and it is rotting his brain

          • kcponte

            George, I think someone needs to take your pulse.

          • Rondo

            George, your sick and don’t know it. Your comments prove what kind of a person you really are. Get some help.

          • Mo Reno

            Her job was with Hobby Lobby, you dolt. Those are republican christians, obviously since they threw her out of work and now she has to live on unemployment benefits, even though she was willing to work.

          • George

            Mo, Learn to discern what you read. The story said that she was ALLEGEDLY fired…I hope that you know what ALLEGEDLY means.

          • Mo Reno

            So, she returned to work after giving birth? No. She didn’t. What is it called when your job isn’t there anymore, by order of your employer?

            You need to learn to read beyond legal weasel words, grampa.

          • Hoosier Native

            And yet, they (HL) did everything to prevent her form getting unemployment benefits.

          • Mo Reno

            Well the Green family is human scum wrapped in a flag, carrying a Bible with a “Made-In-China” label, so you know that they must be a caring, pious bunch…

            /s

          • Jerry Masters

            Well, of course. She had SEX. And she’s not even Married.
            You have to Punish people for violating Ghod’s Laws, the Mother as well as the Child.

            Didn’t you read that “Unto the 7th Generation” part in the Bible?

            Ghod has some Serious hangups about Sex. They are all over his book.

            [Snark Off]

          • jiggajames

            name one employer that grants a person unemployment benefits on part-time?

          • WhichWitchisWhich

            The decision is not the employers’. Unemployment benefits are regulated by the states. Employers may throw a monkey wrench into the works, such as claiming an employee was terminated for cause, but even that is not the final word.

          • Glendal L Harris

            Hey Mo Reno, you dolt. She now works at Xerox. She is not on unemployment. You ought to read the articles before you troll. You dolt.

          • Mo Reno

            Not too big on the past-tense, eh?

            You should check it out. Here, free English pointers:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_tense

            It refers to things that have happened prior to this moment, rather than things that are currently happening or will happen in the future. As a native English speaker, I can assure you that I use the past tense everyday. Try it out, you’ll probably enjoy it, and you can even use the past tense to understand what people have written on the Internet!

          • Glendal L Harris

            Hey Mo, you dolt. I would say you are the one not too big on past tense (no hyphen, by the way). You may want to read the article you pointed out. “Past events are often referred to using the present perfect construction, as in I have finished (also known as present in past). However this is not regarded as an instance of the past tense; instead it is viewed as a combination of present tense with perfect aspect, specifying a present state that results from past action.” You dolt.

          • Mo Reno

            Whew, thanks professor! I may be a dolt, but at least my wife don’t look like that!

            Plus, you’re a Kenny G fan, so you know, that’s something to be proud of, right?

            Is that like, you and horse-face’s getting-down muzak?

          • Glendal L Harris

            Cute, typical liberal tactic. attack a family member who has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation. I gather you are a lifetime liberal?

          • Mo Reno

            It’s no different than your tactic of claiming that liberals abort more children than they raise: basic ad hominem, only mine is accurate, you wife is fugly, Glenda.

            You do remember writing that, right?

          • jiggajames

            so if you work at Hobby Lobby you’re automatically a republican? Where are you pulling this from? they didn’t throw her out, you need to read the story again.

          • Mo Reno

            Straw man. I never argued that. Try addressing actual argument I made, rather than reframing it to suit your agenda.

          • jiggajames

            so don’t call you out on your BS is actually what you’re saying.

          • Mo Reno

            No, it means that nowhere did I argue that anyone automatically becomes a republican when they work at Hobby Lobby. You argued that, and that is an error known as the “straw man fallacy.”

          • George

            Excellent point, Elaine. These people posting here don’t realize that the liberals use money to control people. The libs give them just enough money to keep them dependent on the free-spending liberals, who are spending the hard-earned money of the middle class.

          • Dez

            Nice racism. We can pick up your dog whistles pretty easily. Just come out with it and call the woman a “welfare queen.”

          • George

            Dez, You no doubt are unaware that caucasians also receive welfare. Welfare to those who don’t deserve it, who are able to work but don’t, is a way to keep them in the control of the payor of the welfare. As long as Uncle Sam pays them, they’ll be content to stay at home and receive the dole.

          • Dez

            Typical nonsense stereotype of the poor so you can feel better looking down on them. Yeah shame the poor as lazy even though they work hard for the little money they do have for rent and food. Abuse of welfare is rare. Most on welfare actually need it like children and old people. Are you a Rand Paul follower because you seem entirely ignorant about the poor and welfare?

          • George

            If only YOU knew what you were talking about. I would say that many need welfare, and I am glad that they have it. I am aiming at the ones who are quite capable of working but choose to get fed by Uncle Sam. You may be one of them You know what I’m talking about. You simply like to feel superior to others. That must be a need that you have. How do you know that “most” on welfare actually need it? If anyone has gone through and weeded out those who don’t need welfare, then all would need welfare.

          • Dez

            The small minority of those who abuse welfare does not justify bashing all of the poor. You did not make a distinction in your comment before which you should have if that is what you meant. Sorry if I took you for exactly what you said. Yes I am superior to you because I do not judge those who are on welfare just because they are on welfare. I do not make assumptions that they are lazy freeloaders without an ounce of evidence to indicate that they are. I have more respect for the poor than you apparently.

          • P. McCoy

            This woman was working and expected maternity benefits, but hey, she’s Black and her fetus isn’t sacred. But ah, one of you males had worked for four months and got a virulent prostate cancer and HL dumped you and refused to help you and the only help was Medicaid something the Libs.got going….Well, I would expect good ol’ libertarian/Ayn Randist/Republican Conservatives like you two to refuse all help and die from cancer-correct me if I am wrong?

          • George

            R.McCoy, please note that the story says that she was ALLEGEDLY terminated…note the word ALLEGEDLY. You are jumping to conclusions. There has been no finality to this story because the reporter wanted to start something by alleging that she was fired because of her pregnancy. You fell for it.

          • Hoosier Native

            Please join George with the rotten apple.

          • Peggy Albrecht Montaner

            You’re an @$$ and have ZERO idea what Liberals even stand for!

          • Hoosier Native

            wrong, give her a little $ so she and the child can survive

          • pavane

            Really, elaine? You think helping mothers and children is controlling them? How so? To what end? Be specific.
            Frankly, I’d rather help feed our poor than starve them like Regressive self-proclaimed christians work so hard to ensure. Regressive sure do love the fetus … but their actions demonstrate a perverse hatred of women and children.

          • Laffy

            So when a church feeds a homeless person they are controlling them?

        • GuessWho

          Listen to yourself. You sound ridiculous. “Control the woman” YEAH RIGHT. In 2014 – women control it all right – to the tune of 325,000 abortions a year – and a half billion dollar kick back to Planned Parenthood for their abortion Mill.

          • StealthGaytheist

            Whatever you say, dearie.

        • Jimmy FiveFingers

          @AnaV: Whoa, you’re right, Gendal L Harris is all over the
          internet!! So is his address, wife, kids, etc. Who would use their
          real name in an era of identity theft??? This guy is someone who sits at his PC all day pontificating vile and seeking pleasure in insulting and annoying people. Rather anti-social, don’t you think? Gun bravado can’t stop damage to your reputation or your credit score!

          The American Psychiatric Association, in its Diagnostic and
          Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, diagnoses persistent anti-social behavior as Antisocial Personality Disorder,[1] and the World Health Organization includes it in the International Classification of Diseases as Dissocial Personality Disorder.[2]

          1. “Antisocial Personality Disorder”. BehaveNet. Retrieved 2014-07-029.
          2. ICD-10 Version:2010 / http://apps.who.int/classifications/apps/icd/icd10online/?gf60.htm+f602

        • mlegibson

          So they try to control welfare policies. Of course widows who have never worked are able to draw their husband’s social security. I guess the assumption is that they don’t have sex (and have displayed “family values”) and therefore don’t need to be controlled.

          I don’t begrudge anyone the money, BTW. But it is an issue that the right refuses to acknowledge when talking about cutting welfare policies. SSI and medicare cost the tax payers far more than TANF or other forms of social welfare.

      • expect_resistance

        So true.

      • hangdogit

        Until the child reaches military age — then the Right regains interest…

        • VeggieTart

          Well, as George Carlin once said, they want live babies so they can grow up to be dead soldiers.

      • Dana

        Oh, they’re interested in that child, all right. They want to hand it over to an adoption agency for quick sale.

      • GuessWho

        What about the 60,000 diseased illegals – where is your concern, where is your invite to your home – word is….the government will pay $7000 bucks a month – that may get the Obama voters out of their mothers basement….

        • warriorgoddess

          Um, sorry. The “diseased” children you are looking for are in your middle to upper middle class suburban neighborhoods shopping at Whole Foods and whining that there are no really good organic Pinot Noirs while their snot-nosed, unvaccinated kids roam freely, touching and infecting everything.

      • Laffy

        Especially once the kid pops out.

        Then, all you hear is, “F that slutt. I didn’t force her to have sex and I shouldn’t be forced to help pay for her brat.”

      • Jayman

        especially black ones.

      • cantfry55

        This is going to shock the living hell out of you, but, I don’t want to “control’ anyone. Making a living for my family of seven and meeting the needs of my wife and children while keeping the house, cars, bikes and computers from falling apart pretty much fills my day.

        How many diapers have you changed? How many nights have you stayed up all night rocking one sick child while your spouse tends to another?

        How much have you compromised your career to choose to “be there” for a family? How much of your income is YOURS and not spent taking care of a wife, mother and children?

        People are not cartoons.

    • Adam40

      What I want to know is if someone can sue Hobby Lobby for perjury? Under oath the claimed to operate exclusively under their christian values, yet that has been proved thoroughly false.

      • Dawn Wolfson

        Only if they didn’t sign the arbitration agreement…..

        • Greg McGowan

          Then they would not have gotten hired.

          • Dawn Wolfson

            yes, a bit of a catch 22, isn’t it?

      • https://www.facebook.com/smitty.pa.795?ref=tn_tnmn SmittyPA

        You can’t sue someone for perjury nor does the bible say anything about firing a woman for being pregnant.

        • marie

          True…but the bible doesn’t say anything about abortion being wrong either. Quite the contrary.

          • Freedom

            So the bible supports abortion?

          • keirmeister
          • dudebro

            Yes. In Numbers 5 a woman is given a potion that will induce a miscarriage ie abortion if she is thought to be cheating on her husband.

          • mambocat

            Actually, in several places in the Bible the Children of Abraham are given specific instructions on smiting their enemies, including “lay open the bellies of women with child with your sword.” Old Testament. The verse escapes me at the moment because I don’t have my sticky-note marked Bible handy, but it’s there, among all the war instructions for smiting non-Hebrews, including killing all thine enemies’ men and women, except the virgins, who may be taken as prizes of war.

          • Bicycle Girl

            I believe it was “God” who ordered Abraham to slaughter his already-born children in His name, so while we can’t be sure the Bible condones abortion, we most definitely know it condones cold-blooded murder.

          • Jendayi Hamilton

            The Bible says “Do not murder.” Further more, it would seem from different texts that God considers the unborn a human. Please read Ps. 139:13, Jere. 1:5 and Ex 21:22-23. I think it gives us a clear definition of whether the unborn life is viable or not.

          • Dana

            There is a passage in Numbers describing a situation where two men fight and, in the process, harm a pregnant woman. If she loses the pregnancy, they’re supposed to pay a fine to the father. If something worse happens to her, they are to be punished accordingly.

            If God considered abortion murder, bumping into a pregnant woman and making her miscarry certainly applies. What is the Old Testament punishment for murder? Not paying a fine, last I checked.

            You forget. The Bible’s in English and we can all read it. Too bad you don’t. Parroting verses your pastor threw at you doesn’t count as reading, either.

          • VeggieTart

            Yes, but the embryo/fetus is not considered a life. If someone attacked a pregnant woman and caused her to lose her pregnancy, the attacker was fined, not charged with murder. In counts of towns, babies under one month old were not considered.

          • roald

            Do not murder refers to people. The ancient Hebrews considered life to begin with birth. The first reference says nothing about abortion being murder, just that a child grows within its mother’s womb, not that personhood begins at any point. The second verse refers to Jesus only and still does not say abortion is murder or when life begins. The third verse says exactly the opposite of what it appears you believe. The serious injury to which you refer is on the part of the mother. The destruction of the fetus is considered property damage.

          • Liz

            Actually, Genesis 2:7 states that personhood attaches at birth.

          • Sammee777

            I consider myself a moderate Christian (although I’m sure many would call me a radical lefty), but even I tend to roll my eyes whenever someone quotes Old Testament scripture to justify something. The OT has a lot of rules that would seem appalling to us today – particularly Exodus. Cherry-picking scripture is disingenuous and a major reason why it’s increasingly difficult to take Christians seriously when it comes to social issues.

          • Liz

            Then why do you read the OT?

          • HomeSweet12

            Because the OT is history. Studying history helps us make better choices now and in the future. Hence the New Testament.

            Of course, this is not something the religious right would understand or be in favor of since they believe in picking and choosing things out of the bible that will make their dictating look creditable. Understand it is not right but it works for them.

          • Mary Freeman-Croyle

            Because it’s got some racy stories – why else?

          • liberal_christian

            So what’s the reason “pro life” people use to justify execution of prisoners?? Killing any individual is murder.

          • Glendal L Harris

            And I have never understood how a liberal can justify fighting to save a serial killer from execution, but supporting killing an unborn child.

          • Traci

            No one supports killing an unborn child. “Unborn Child” is an oxymoron. A child cannot be “unborn.”

          • liberal_christian

            I see you avoided the question about killing prisoners. I have never understood why Conservatives talk about being pro-life but are the first to jump and advocate for war. I never in my life read any footnotes that said;. Thou shalt not kill, “except communist or terrorists.” IT’s a two way street, so why do Conservative hate abortions and support executions and wars? BTW: most “liberals do not condone abortions, but believe that it is the individuals rights under the law, without interference from government and religious organization. That’s between the individuals and God, individual liberty is what this country claims to be about, not theocracy. . .

          • Liz

            Actually, Exodus 21:22-25 clearly indicates that maternal life was held in higher esteem than fetal life as killing a woman was a criminal offense and killing a fetus was a civil offense.
            Genesis 2:7, Corinthians 15:45 clearly state that one’s humanity, personhood, and/or ensoulment begin at birth (an infant’s first breath).

          • marie

            The Jeremiah verse so frequently used by pro-birth advocates, was meant for the prophet Jeremiah ONLY…not everyone. This is quite evident by the following biblical verses: Psalm 137:9 KJV “Happy she he be that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.” (retribution against Israel’s “enemies.”) Pro-life?

            II Kings 2:23-24 KJV “And he went up from thence unto Bethel and as he was going up by the way there came forth LITTLE CHILDREN out of the city and mocked him, Go up thou bald head; go up thou bald head. And he [Elisha] turned back and looked on them and CURSED THEM IN THE NAME OF THE LORD (taking the lord’s name in vain, are we?). And there came forth two she bears out of the wood and tare forty and two children of them.” So 42 children were torn apart by bears for calling Elisha “baldy.” Pro-life?

            And, finally, Exodus 21:22 KJV “If men strive and hurt a woman with child so that her fruit depart from her and yet no mischief follow he shall be surely punished according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him and he shall pay as the judges determine.” In other words, they PAY A FINE for causing a woman to lose the fetus. Pro-life?

            If anyone bothers to read the bible thoroughly, it’s clear to see by the millions killed by god (Noah’s Ark genocide, angel of death, Sodom & Gomorrah, etc., etc.,) or sanctioned by god for Israel to kill in his name….that pro-LIFE is not the theme of the biblical god. Life is not precious in the eyes of this god or any of his followers, as it is written in the “holy” bible.

          • Traci

            “Please read Ps. 139:13,”

            Those are not God’s words. David said that to God, not the other way around.

            Jere. 1:5

            Speaking specifically to Jeremiah.

            Ex 21:22-23

            Is a case of property law. There is no care at all for the child or it’s mother beyond being the property of the man.

        • RevEllen

          Yes the bible does say something about perjury. Thou shalt not bear false witness. One of the big 10.

          • https://www.facebook.com/smitty.pa.795?ref=tn_tnmn SmittyPA

            I didn’t say the bible was silent on perjury. I said US law prevents you from suing for perjury, which it does. I said the bible is silent on firing a woman for being pregnant.

      • expect_resistance

        I would LOVE to HL sued for perjury.

      • VeggieTart

        Yes, but they can claim anything they want to and say it’s part of their “deeply held religious beliefs”.

      • BelligerentBruncher

        What exactly is a Christian value and why do you think you get to determine how someone practices them?

        • Adam40

          Thats a simple question to answer; when someone acts in the antithesis of what is stated in the bible.

          Conversely, if you want to stick to your logic, why does the supreme court get to decide what a christian value is and why do they get to determine how someone practices them?

          Your claim is what is known as a logic fallacy.

          • BelligerentBruncher

            They get to decide because they are judges and you are not.

            More so, they are deciding whether the religious exemption to the law is a “sincerely held belief.” i.e – not just making it up now so they don’t have to abide by the law.

            But, back to the point….YOU (or I) don’t get to determine who is and who is not a Christian or a member of any religion. The Bible isn’t interpreted verbatim…and people chose to interpret it how they see fit. And that’s their right.

            Clear enough, Adam?

          • Adam40

            No, not at all, in fact it is laughable how confused you are.

            “More so, they are deciding whether the religious exemption to the law is a “sincerely held belief.” i.e – not just making it up now so they don’t have to abide by the law.”

            -That was your quote. Which ironically is exactly what I was saying. Now try hard to stay with me, since HL clearly demonstrates, based on their actions, that their ‘religious beliefs’ are not in fact sincerely held. But instead the SC ruled that by simply stating their beliefs those beliefs are sincerely held.

            Also your other quote, “They get to decide because they are judges and you are not,” is equally dim as if HL were to be sued for perjury who do you think would be deciding that? Hint: They too are judges.

            So no, your ramblings and attempt to validate are not clear enough. But I would love to know how you feel about your argument being completely refuted (I assume you will just ignore and hide to remain willfully ignorant).

          • Adam40

            Hey where’d ya go??

            “No, not at all, in fact it is laughable how confused you are.

            “More so, they are deciding whether the religious exemption to the law is a “sincerely held belief.” i.e – not just making it up now so they don’t have to abide by the law.”

            -That was your quote. Which ironically is exactly what I was saying. Now try hard to stay with me, since HL clearly demonstrates, based on their actions, that their ‘religious beliefs’ are not in fact sincerely held. But instead the SC ruled that by simply stating their beliefs those beliefs are sincerely held.

            Also your other quote, “They get to decide because they are judges and you are not,” is equally dim as if HL were to be sued for perjury who do you think would be deciding that? Hint: They too are judges.

            So no, your ramblings and attempt to validate are not clear enough. But I would love to know how you feel about your argument being completely refuted (I assume you will just ignore and hide to remain willfully ignorant).”

      • HomeSweet12

        They can calm anything they want when they have paid to have the court stacked in their favor.

      • StealthGaytheist

        Sue Christians for hypocrisy? If only!

      • Glendal L Harris

        Sure Adam40, be a hero and get yourself a lawyer and do it. You will be a liberal hero forever. Go for it.

    • The Franklin

      Well said

    • ZJR

      This is typical of the pro-birth crowd. They only care about the
      “unborn”, after its born, it could end up in a ditch for all they care.

      • Jendayi Hamilton

        No, I don’t just care about the baby before its born. I care about the mom and the baby after the baby comes into the world. Which is why I send monthly support to my local pregnancy center and also volunteer on weekends to babysit for working moms. But I’m guessing you didn’t know that did you? After all, I could careless right?

        • Dana

          Your “local pregnancy center” is separating mothers and babies for adoption industry profit. That’s not “caring.”

          • elaine williams

            That’s about the craziest thing I have heard in a good while. While families that adopt do pay a lot in fees, court costs, lawyers, there is no adoption industry. I know families who have passed all tests, inspections, been approved, and wait. and wait, and wait. One family I know waited almost 7 years to adopt their son. He almost died in the 1st month. Downs syndrome, intestinal blockage, heart murmur, etc. . They were told to back out, no one expected all this. But my friend said “That’s my son”. That boy is in his teens now, and that family has been waiting for at least a dozen years to adopt another child.
            Another family I know adopted a blind, developmentally delayed girl from Guatemala. Another family adopted 2 brothers from Russia, the younger had just started the process of surgeries to correct his cleft palate.
            Point is, there isn’t a lot of kids to adopt, so there is no industry. My circle of friends were not looking for perfect little White babies.
            Those that make money are the lawyers. The state agencies that get fees use them to pay employees who do inspections, check criminal records, financial records, interviews, etc.

          • P. McCoy

            Plenty of Black children and older children right in the US waiting to be
            adopted-little or no waiting time.

          • dudebro

            There is an adoption industry. A billion dollar one. The adoption agencies get a large cut of the money for doing next to nothing. They won’t even pay the woman’s hospital bills.

          • fiona64

            there is no adoption industry.

            BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

            Point is, there isn’t a lot of kids to adopt, so there is no industry

            Bullshit. In this country alone, there are more than 100K children available for adoption (according to the latest statistics: http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/resource/afcars-report-20) , most of whom will age out at 18 without ever having permanent homes.

            Why is it that there are so many “loving families” out there just dying to adopt, and yet we have all of these chlidren available?

            I’ll tell you: they’re “dying to adopt” perfectly healthy Caucasian neonates.

          • boB

            Another one that knows exactly what her local pregnancy center is doing without knowing her locale or the name of said center. Wow, what amazing piece of precognitive magic am I missing?

        • Nicola Durham

          I don’t think ZJR was speaking specifically to you. AND while you are to be commended for help and assistant, please keep in mind that you are in the minority when it comes to caring.

        • Anne

          There’s a big difference between “I could careless (whatever that means)” and “I couldn’t care less.”

        • fiona64

          Your “local pregnancy center”‘s purpose is to be a front for an adoption mill. You would be doing far more for women and children if you donated those same funds to the local food bank.

          • elaine williams

            Perhaps you could give an example of an adoption mill.
            You don’t know much about pregnancy centers. That’s obvious. For women who do go, there is food, clothing, baby items, a non judgmental person to talk to. She’s been where you are. It’s scary. Here’s how it works. You talk about what you want to talk about. The counselor asks your permission to talk about other subjects. If you say “no, I am not comfortable”, the subject is closed. The pregnancy test is free. In some places, you can get an STD test, free. Anytime you want to leave, you can. Most women find it’s awesome to find someone to talk to. Someone who cares about what you want. The secret to pregnancy centers is to put the woman back in control of her life, which seems to be spiraling out of control when she walks in.

            No one forces her to do anything. If she wants to discuss adoption, it’s discussed. If she doesn’t, it is not discussed. Most of the time, she chooses to have the baby. Info is given to her about WIC, SNAP, medicaid, ect. Most important, she chooses.

            That’s what makes the difference.

          • P. McCoy

            Yeah, it’s so “awesome” to have religious zealots brainwash you with lies.The pro life movement in the neighborhoods where I have lived depict and are only interested in healthy, Aryan infants. Any others that get born are a drain on the US economy and the mothers are fancy eating, fancy driving welfare cheats. Not worth two dead flies in their book.

          • Glendal L Harris

            You are a scary person. You are the one who sits at planned parenthood or some other abortion mill and tells some young, poor, black woman that abortion is preferable to any other option because the U.S. is so racist that her child would never have a chance if she pursued adoption or any other alternative. And, you support the abortion of white babies because you think they are Aryan. That is just sick.

          • dudebro

            You’re an idiot.

          • Glendal L Harris

            Oh, dudebro, you’re back. And I’ve upset you’re little liberal sensitivities again. You poor thing. Go back to sleep.

          • dudebro

            You’re still an idiot.

          • P. McCoy

            I would never tell another woman what to do-if a Black woman changes her mind about abortion and says so she can leave the facility free as the breeze. But people like YOU will be berating her just like you all did to this woman here. As for Aryan babies I criticize the fact that these ads, in non White and in one case, in a Spanish speaking neighborhood, these babies were the only ones.depicted. So they show what is valued and what is not. Did you see the cheering section for the SC HL.decision? Overwhelmingly. WHITE.and.”pro life” all eagerly holding poster of bald or blonde but yes again, Aryan pink babies- pro lifers are pro Aryan like someone else!

          • Glendal L Harris

            You are seriously racist. I think you need medical help. I would not be surprised to read about you causing serious harm to a while child in a newspaper tomorrow.

          • P. McCoy

            You are delusional and fortunate that in the United States, you can hide behind “freedom of speech” for your intemperate and mendacious remarks-the Aryan ads are REAL! Why they use them? Take it up with them! If you were making such cowardly remarks in the UK or Canada, you would be charged with libel. No children get killed in an abortion and it’s religious right wingers who harm children of all kinds with their desires to cut the safety nets of food, healthcare, education, shelter and aid to their parents from beneath them.They.and

          • fiona64

            Perhaps you could give an example of an adoption mill.

            With pleasure.

            http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2010/07/15/wrong-door/

            No one forces her to do anything. If she wants to discuss adoption, it’s
            discussed. If she doesn’t, it is not discussed. Most of the time, she
            chooses to have the baby. Info is given to her about WIC, SNAP,
            medicaid, ect. Most important, she chooses.

            All of that can happen at Planned Parenthood, or in her OB’s office as well. However, the CPC’s main focus is a) pretending it’s a medical clinic and b) talking women out of terminating unwanted pregnancies and placing infants for adoption. And everyone knows that.

          • boB

            Without knowing her locale, or the name of the pregnancy center, you already know it is an abortion mill? Must be nice to have all the world’s knowledge at one’s fingertips like that.

            Most pregnancy centers I am aware of stress pre- and post-natal care, women’s health, and family planning (ie birth control) — abortions amount to some 3% of PP activities.

          • fiona64

            Without knowing her locale, or the name of the pregnancy center, you already know it is an abortion mill?

            Um, Bob? Read for comprehension. I said adoption mill.

          • Glendal L Harris

            And so, as a good liberal, you would prefer that they abort the child rather than allow them to be adopted, right?

          • fiona64

            I would prefer that a given woman make her own choices about a given pregnancy. It’s none of my business one way or the other unless the pregnancy is mine.

            Too bad the anti-choice don’t understand the simple principle of MYOB …

        • Shahidah Ali

          a pregnancy center? Never heard of one of those. I’m going to guess its not planned parenthood but a center exclusively for pregnant women. Is it a support group, are the women underprivileged and given resources to keep their baby and raise it after birth? What state is this? you also volunteer for working moms on the weekend. that is something I would love to do. what is the program called?

          • fiona64

            She’s referring to a so-called “crisis pregnancy center,” which are fake clinics that set up with no medical personnel whatsoever in order to try to get the right* kind of woman to surrender the right** kind of infant to the right*** kind of family for adoption.

            * White
            ** Perfectly healthy, preferably male
            *** Evangelical Christian or Catholic

          • elaine williams

            Don’t know much about the centers,do ya?
            Just stick to what you know.
            Another thing offered at the centers is after abortion healing classes. They are led by women who have had an abortion, regretted it, felt guilty, had emotional/mental health issues. Once they found healing,and release of all the guilt, they want to help other women. Confidentially. Free.
            A woman who aborts suffers all the emotion that a woman who miscarries does, only without the sympathy and support. A woman who aborts usually keeps it secret.She may abuse alcohol, drugs, engage in risky behaviors, act out. A famous singer recently revealed that she thought God hated her after she had an abortion. That’s just not true. We don’t know what burdens others are carrying, so tread lightly.
            If you need healing, look up your local crisis pregnancy center.

          • Dez

            study-montana-cpcs-use-inaccurate-information-to-dissuade-women-from-choosing-abortion

          • tpel_91

            In my state the one single person most out in front as the public face of the forced birthers a few election cycles ago runs a… wait for it… Adoption Agency. She makes a living by collecting adoption fees. The number of babies available for adoption goes down and she doesn’t make as much money. So forgive me for being more than a a little skeptical when this same woman gets legislation passed into law that forces a woman wanting an abortion to go to a ‘crisis pregnancy centers’ to get their approval before she can go to the one Planned Parenthood clinic in the state to schedule an abortion.

          • Ted Eggleston

            So, now I understand what your center is- an anti-abortion center. Nothing more, nothing less. So, call it what it is, and then let the reader decide if he/she supports that point of view. I support Planned Parenthood.

          • Glendal L Harris

            So, rather than allow a child a chance at adoption, you support aborting that child. Man, that is cold. I don’t even know how to address that mindset.

          • fiona64

            No such thing as PAS. You can stop with the lies.

            And you can also stop with the ASSumptions.

        • mandarinroses

          So how many have you adopted?

        • Hoosier Native

          sounds good….but I have never heard of such a place/thing

      • Dana

        What they really like to see happen is the baby sold for adoption. Oh wait, sorry, that’s “adoption fees.” Right.

      • MaryNaysigner

        So better to kill it before it is born to make sure that never happens. Right?

        • Liz

          A fetus is akin to a baby as an acorn is akin to an oak tree.

          • BelligerentBruncher

            Yes a little acorn with a little beating heart.

          • Bicycle Girl

            That’s silly. Everyone knows an acorn does not have a beating heart and a zygote hasn’t got one either… until the 5th week of pregnancy.

          • P. McCoy

            Certain cells can be made to have a heartbeat too; doesn’t make them a salient human being, Napoleon.

          • dudebro

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H51r465EE-E

            The petri dish..it’s aliiiiiiiiiiiiive!

          • MaryNaysigner

            No. Acorn = unfertilized egg. Better analogy (if you insist on justifying abortion) is sapling = fetus.

        • Mabel

          That’s between a woman and her doctor and it is none of your business unless it’s your womb we’re talking about.

          If people like the ones who run Hobby Lobby learned to mind their own business, the world will be a better place.

          • MaryNaysigner

            Were we talking about my womb? I didn’t realize that. I thought ZJR was talking about the baby inside my womb. If people valued life the world would be a better place. And, BTW Hobby Lobby is against only four (of 20) forms of birth control. The other 16 are covered so not sure why you and others are so apoplectic about this. Also, if you want to get the morning after pill, no one is stopping you from getting it (or an abortion for that matter). It’s just that HL doesn’t want to offer / subsidize it. If you want to have every option available to you to kill your babies, you can go on Obamacare.

      • P. McCoy

        Not in this case- no adoption unless it’s a healthy, Aryan infant!

      • Richard Harney

        They are usually the “Super Christians” too who also oppose gay adoptions. Have the baby you don’t want, but don’t you dare give it up to the gays.

      • StealthGaytheist

        Especially if they might have to pay more taxes.

    • naedrdmk

      You must not know many “RW” types. smh

    • kathy B

      oh bullshit..

      • suzy-Q

        @kathy B:disqus , these people are nuts to say the least, not HL, but the people writing these comments. The s**t is getting deep in here, for sure!!!!!!!

        • kathy B

          Exactly only have 1/2 of the story..first she did not disclose pregnancy and if truth were known she probably didn’t show up to work at her part time job when needed.

          • Dez

            Allen had been hired as a part-time cashier in late July 2010. Shortly after starting the job, she learned she was four months’ pregnant with her third child. Because she had not been working for very long, Allen did not qualify for leave under the federal Family Medical Leave Act, which is what she said the Oklahoma City-based chain offers for maternity leave. Nervous, Allen went to her supervisor.
            From the article. I like how unsupportive “pro-lifers” are to pregnant women who work. It shows that lack of caring that is very evident in the movement.

          • suzy-Q

            So, I guess HL was supposed to just pay everything for her then even though it states she did not qualify because she had not been working there long enough. And then I guess she could quit here job after the fact and say okay, thank you hobby lobby. Everyone else is supposed to pay for a woman that knows perfectly well what caused her to get pregnant, really. Take care of your own damn self and quit your damn whining!!!!!!!!

          • Dez

            Hobby Lobby owners are the ones pushing their christian morals. What is wrong with us expecting them to live by it? You would think allowing this woman to come back after having a child instead of having an abortion would be seen as good to christians. Apparently asking you to act like christians is too much to ask for. Of course you go racist and portray her as a welfare queen. More christian love on display.

          • suzy-Q

            You my dear are crazy, where in the world do I even bring up her race or saying she’s a welfare queen. And you people giving Dez the thumbs up didn’t even read my post. INSANE, insane insane is all I can say!!!!!!! Realty check, y’all need to do that. WOW!!!!!!!!!!

          • Dez

            Everyone else is supposed to pay for a woman that knows perfectly well what caused her to get pregnant, really. Take care of your own damn self and quit your damn whining!!!!!!!!
            Your words. It’s the same dog whistles we hear from people like you who won’t straight up speak their racism. They tend to like their code words. I have yet to see this kind of vitriol toward white women. White women get the benefit of the doubt, while black women are presumed lazy and slutty.

          • Tasali

            Did you not read the damn article or are you just pretending to be dumb?

            The article states clearly that as soon as she knew she was pregnant, she went to her supervisor and asked if it would be a problem. Supervisor said no. The pregnant woman continued working, until she had to have the baby. When she tried to come BACK to work (you know, so she could support her child), they turned her away. Nowhere in the article does it state she expected HL to pay for anything, she just wanted to keep her job. Clearly you are trying to paint her as a welfare queen, except she isn’t. She currently has 4 children and works for Xerox. All of your assumptions about this woman are wrong. You are racist and disgusting. She WAS trying to take care of herself, and HL c*ckblocked her at every turn.

          • Postmaster23

            Let’s see….after starting the job she discovers she’s 4 months pregnant? She already had 3 children so one could reasonably expect that she ‘knew’ before then. Everyone (most) is jumping to a conclusion that HL did something wrong after hearing just 1 side. How do you know if her job performance was satisfactory? Do you know if she reported as scheduled? Maybe her supervisor spoke without knowing for sure if a job would be available after the birth. As for the unemployment benefits, just pay it. As for suing? Really?

          • Dez

            Yeah it happens. Look it up on google. Pregnancy shouldn’t be a qualifier for being fired. Hobby Lobby had a chance to share their side of the story but declined too. All your other questions are purely conjecture and you have no proof to suggest any of them.

      • StealthGaytheist

        Gee, did they post a link to this under a bridge somewhere?

    • Carlos Santiago

      Always the curiosity why anti-war folk have a disconnect with the child -pre birth and the pro-life folks don’t also emphasize the adult.. Pro-life is a broader umbrella than that.

      • Liz

        Actually, pro-choice is the only pro-life position that exists.
        Pro-choicers support a woman carrying a fetus until birth and either keep the infant or relinquishing the infant for adoption; and termination of the pregnancy.
        Maternal death is a real risk when carrying a pregnancy.
        Pro-birth doesn’t equal pro-life.

        • Carlos Santiago

          So glad to have the clarification that pro-choice stands in opposition to abortion.Pro-life people favor saving the Mother if a decision must be made on whom must die. We are saving lives already. Peace

    • LeftleaningTx

      Or any care whatsoever for the child that their anti abortion laws would create.
      Because after all women should not be having consequence free sex (that is reserved only for men and the child should have to pay for that transgression as well

    • Mark_in_VA

      “pregnant women”? No, sir/madam, I think you mean hosts.

    • Three_to_Five

      On the contrary, as a white republican myself, I think she has a very legitimate claim, and I’m wondering why she hasn’t taken it through arbitration. It sounds to me like the store manager was clearly in the wrong (whether this is a matter of corporate policy or a store manager not acting in accordance with policy is not clear). But I can say for sure that this is no way to treat your employees, and I hope she wins her case.

    • mambocat

      The RW wants all fetuses to be born, ideally to low-income mothers to increase their likelihood of growing into a.) females who will reproduce at an early age and with little education; b.) males who will grow up, manage not to land in jail, and become cannon fodder when the military becomes his employer of last resort, and c:) for those who do get arrested, prison fodder to fuel the for-profit prison system. Slave class remains in place; white man sits happy and wealthy on Wall street.

    • WaStConcerned

      ….like many corporations now days, they don’t have respect for their employees….period….and find any way possible to sluff off liability for any of their actions, policies or procedures. Unfortunately, this has been ramping up for 40 years and and finally reaching a head.

      Workers need to totally unite to stop this abuse……..

      • StealthGaytheist

        Agreed.

    • GuessWho

      Please. And what respect do you haver for the unborn? ZERO.

    • bbcaaat

      Enforced maternity then see ya!

    • Glendal L Harris

      I don’t know, I kind of liked my mother. And my wife while she was pregnant. (Well, except sometimes.) And I had/have a great deal of respect for both of them. Maybe it was because neither depended on the government to support them or their children.

      • StealthGaytheist

        Oh good grief.

      • Tanya

        Thirty years in the military but they weren’t depending on the government to support them? Where did your paychecks come from, the job fairy?

    • Mo Reno

      If you’ve been to Glendal L Harris’ facebook page and seen his wife…
      never mind.

      • StealthGaytheist

        I’ll take your word for it.

        • Mo Reno

          I’ll put it this way: He’s also a Kenny G fan.

          *shudders*

          • StealthGaytheist

            Ewww, I’m eating!

    • ORAXX

      The physical and mental health of the mother mean nothing to these people, nor that of living, breathing children. They are sanctimonious bigots, in love with the authoritarianism of the institutional church, while holding the things Jesus (supposedly) said about the way we treat our fellow humans in utter contempt.

      • StealthGaytheist

        Exactly.

    • dozr

      they dont give a shit about the baby after its born either.

      they only want to be able to tell you what you can or cant do, they have no interest in growing a human into a decent person. its about control not about compassion.

      • StealthGaytheist

        Precisely–it’s about control.

    • philofthefuture

      Liar.

      • StealthGaytheist

        Project much?

    • cantfry55

      Well, that’s a dirtbag generality.

    • Mark Bigger

      You may be right, but in fact many LW & RW are guilty of not having respect for others, including pregnant women and mothers. I believe this to be a very low number of people. I was raised to have respect for everyone while many younger people seem to not have been raised with that value. You, being a gay atheist have my respect or I would not have replied. Today our country is in a bad way with so many problems and people get ultra angry and say things they shouldn’t, don’t let a few comments make an entire group of people seem as though they feel the same way. No one that I know would never disrespect a pregnant woman or mother

  • Arakiba

    Hobby Lobby just doesn’t like women. Why else would it cut their access to birth control and then fire them after having a baby?

    • StealthGaytheist

      Wimmens are supposed to stay home, birth babies and serve their husbands. And make crafts with cheap crap imported from China and purchased from Hobby Lobby.

    • gme11

      Most religions just think women are on earth to be used as procreation vessels. They have no respect for the fact that no one on earth would be here if it wasn’t for the sacrifices women make to bring them into this world!

    • Dazy

      The woman was pregnant when she started working there, so access to birth control was not limited by HL. Secondly, it’s clear their policy was not to fire a woman after taking a leave to have a baby because they told her initially it was not a problem. The fact that after working there several months they decided to fire her indicates to me (and any reasonable person without an axe to grind) that she was not a good employee. The pregnancy had nothing to do with it.

      • Dez

        Please cite your evidence for your claim.

        • Dazy

          The only thing I stated that was not included in the article above was the conclusion I drew (based on the facts cited) that she wasn’t a good employee. If she had been a good employee they would have wanted to keep her. It’s irrational to assume otherwise.

          • Dez

            There’s nothing in the article about her job performance. Cite your evidence for the conclusion and assumption. NO you can not assume that because there is no evidence to support that conclusion . Please cite your evidence or admit you can not support your claim.

          • Dazy

            It’s called common sense. Why would an employer fire a good employee unless they were forced to (due to financial constraints)? Contrary to your ridiculous assumptions, companies know they need good employees in order to have good business. I’m not naïve. I know businesses will pay as little as possible. I know they will fire an employee without cause if it cuts into their profit margin (and they can still maintain their business). However, it’s downright foolish to say they’d fire this employee just because she had a baby. Too many other employees of HL have not been fired after getting pregnant. Finally, your entire premise is one big assumption. Why should I be held to a higher standard of “proof” than you?

          • Dez

            So no you can not provide any actual evidence to prove your assertion. Duly noted. Please provide a link or evidence to support your position.

          • Dazy

            After you.

  • radicalhw

    FAMILY VALUES!

    • Helivet

      Yes, the devil has a family and Hobby Lobby expresses those family values.

  • Brian in FL

    Hobby Lobby pretends their decisions are about their “Christian beliefs”, but in reality, they’re just another for-profit corporation that is trying to cut corners. Their real goal is not to pay benefits to employees, or to reduce what they pay in benefits. If Goldman Sachs was wholly owned by one family, they’d try this same gimmick. You won’t hear these facts in our corporately-owned media because their parent companies want to abuse their workers as well.

    • Greg McGowan

      The Green’s, owners of Snobby Lobby, rather than have the health insurance provider adjust their plan, the Green’s used it as an excuse to sue. The Green’s do own stock in companies that make the other 16 contraceptives the Green’s approval and sued over the one they do not own stock in.

    • Freedom

      I believe that the flaw in your logic is that if they were only focused on profits they would not close every one of their stores on Sunday so that families may observe the Sabbath Again, they did not object to providing birth control but rather 4 types that are known to abort a fetus!
      .

      • VeggieTart

        There are no types of birth control that abort a fetus. Try again. It’s called contraception because it prevents conception, ergo, prevents pregnancy.

      • Dana

        There’s no such thing as a contraceptive that aborts a PREGNANCY.

        And you can be closed one or two days a week and still make a profit. Nice try, though.

      • pbtad

        The closing stores on Sunday’s is a PR gimmick designed to drum up business.

        They are distinguishing their store from Michael’s, etc by closing on Sunday’s. Some one has made a calculation that what they lose in sales they make up for in goodwill.

        It absolutely has to do with profit and only profit.

      • fiona64

        Several problems with your assertion, not the least of which is that none of the four types in the suit cause abortion. Oh, and the suit was expanded to include all forms of contraception, as clarified by the SCOTUS the day after the decision was handed down.

      • Liz

        It’s about controlling women. Nothing more.

    • AnaV

      What is silly about this is that providing birth control actually saves money for everyone, including the insurance company. Maybe if the Hobby Lobby had to pay to cover the extra cost that the insurance companies will have to cover for pregnancy care things would be different.

  • joelgp

    so: they want women to get pregnat but if they do; they are fired?

    wow.

    • emjayay

      Only if they aren’t in a proper Christian marriage certified by God.

      • cactuspie

        Where can they pick up the form to fill out?

  • pinkylee48

    These people are pro-birth. After birth, good luck as you are on your own. They are far from pro-life and pro-family.

    • expect_resistance

      Pro-forced-birth and anti-woman.

  • betaray100

    A religious council that ignores the law of the land and the Constitution and your rights as an American citizen? Uh…sounds to me exactly like how a Christian would describe Sharia law.

    • mdbass201@aol.com

      Whats the difference between christians and any other religion when it comes to money.

      • cactuspie

        Christians have more of it and love of it.

    • Dillysteamer

      Also sounds like the current administration.

      • emjayay

        Really? Please continue.

        • Dillysteamer

          Your are correct–I should have made mention to remove the “religious” component (unless being used as an administrative support tool for the current immigrant influx “crisis”–re: Catholic Charities and Baptist Family Services) and insert the DNC/Progressive administration. Other than that “the thing speaks for itself” if we follow and research the same “news” that is reported. I have had co-workers, peers, and upper management of most races, political, and religious affiliation and have had no great difficulty. Why? Commonality in “common sense” and “common purpose.”

    • Jay

      Technically, since she didn’t qualify for the Family Medical Leave Act, there’s no law preventing Hobby Lobby from firing her, only morality and compassion.

      …which Hobby Lobby lacks.

  • 1nancy2

    I will never set foot in crazy, Hobby Lobby, F. Fillet, Wallmart or any other slave pit. No way. Oh, I never buy Barilla Pasta; not after the way they treated gay people. You crazy rt wingers, leave the 70% of the rest of us alone. Creeps.

    • Ami

      Same here!!!

      • 1nancy2

        Hahaha. Hit them in their pocket books. There are more of us, than the crazy phony ‘religious’ people. Religion is quiet, personal, but these bible trumpeters shout and jam their phony crap down the 70%’s throat. Jerks; can’t stand them.

    • Brian

      HaHa–You people are funny. Stupid, but funny.

      • expect_resistance

        Care to elaborate?

    • expect_resistance

      I didn’t hear about Barilla Pasta. Thanks for posting that. Adding it to the boycott list.

      • 1nancy2

        e. Ha. I’m glad you shut your pocket book to Barilla. They never used to go on sale and now? Always on sale; can’t give it away. I just saw it on sale the the Dollar Store!!! Jerk CEO opened his fat mouth and Nancy and Expect said, “See ya, jerko for eternity!!!

        • Sara Digby

          Cheap ole’ me would buy it after it hits the Dollar Tree because they aren’t profiting after it leaves regular retail… it’s been recorded as a loss. :)

    • VeggieTart

      Don’t forget about Eden Foods–they’re against all forms of contraception. I found out a little over a year ago and haven’t bought anything from them since. I read of a Brooklyn co-op that’s considering not carrying their products anymore because of it. I hope other indy natural foods stores follow suit.

      • 1nancy2

        Thanks Veggie. Down with Eden Foods; the sooner, the better.

    • Postmaster23

      Hate much?

      • 1nancy2

        P Projecting much?

  • RideMadone

    Their “jesus” must be so happy with them.

    • Sammee777

      Apparently they worship the almighty dollar, so I’m sure their god is happy with them.

      • expect_resistance

        Yes, thank you for clarifying who their deity is.

  • Ami

    So much for those ” Christian family values” that the Greene family talks about.
    Oh I forgot. Those “family values” are for the wealthy, white, people only since Hobby Lobby invests millions in China where abortion is a government mandate after a family has one child.

  • http://www.facebook.com/brenda.gertsch Brenda Gertsch

    Hobby Lobby sucks balls

    • 1nancy2

      B Yes, big time.

  • ewf658

    I have learned that the more someone wears their faith on their sleeve the less they can be trusted.

    I wouldn’t set foot in a Hobby Lobby store!

    • Greg McGowan

      I have one next to my bank, Snobby Lobby largely empty parking lot is the only thing physically separating the two. Every time I go to my bank and pass by Snobby Lobby, I have to initiate decontamination procedures for myself and my car. I think I’d be better off finding a different branch to bank at.

    • expect_resistance

      I would only set foot in it to covertly drop off pro-choice literature that would make their forced-bither heads spin.

  • johnbales

    The more I read about Hobby Lobby, the less likely I am to step inside of one of their stores…even to ask for change for a meter. The family that owns HL seems to think it is their “Christian duty” to call the shots in their employees’ lives. Just because they write a paycheck does not mean that their control extends to the employees’ own homes, personal lives, and medical decisions.

    • Greg McGowan

      To the Green’s, they do not have employee, they have paid servants.

    • Postmaster23

      No one is stopping these women from purchasing 1 of the 4 that HL’s health benefits plan won’t pay for. HL is NOT telling them how to live their life….you sure know how to put a spin on it.

      • RNfromNY

        On hobby lobby wages, women can’t afford the 4 denied methods of BC, and they know that damn well. So yes, they are telling female employees how to live their lives.
        Not to mention we all knew damn well that the “narrow” decision would be expanded. Now companies are free to deny ALL contraception.

  • Evin

    Key word – allegedly.

    • Sammee777

      HL is welcome to give their side of the story and it seems that they have turned down the opportunity to do it.

  • Debra Moore

    What does anyone expect? HL and other religious nutjobs are now free to treat women as badly as they see fit. THANKS SCOTUS! Miserable old men.

  • Grunt_at_the_Point

    Glad I read this article. I won’t be shopping there again. I supported the Supreme Court decision in Hobby Lobby. Shame on me. But, now that my eyes are open this case was not about religious rights but about money and abuse of power.

    • Di

      At least your eyes are open now.

    • Freedom

      Not sure you should make a decision based on “unsubstantiated” comments on a blog! A lot of what you are reading are opinions as opposed too facts!

      • Grunt_at_the_Point

        Yes, that would be a concern but the complaints in this article are repeated by multiple sources. For example, hobby business dealings in China, a country well known for its abortion policy. If Hobby Lobby’s position is based on moral grounds, why would it continue to do business in that country? No sir, I’m convince Hobby Lobby position is based on politics, money, and abuse of its employees.

  • LEK56

    It wasn’t about religion, it’s about money. Always was.

    • weRstarstuff

      Money Is their religion..

    • https://www.facebook.com/smitty.pa.795?ref=tn_tnmn SmittyPA

      Its not even about money since contraception would actually reduce the cost of the health insurance HL offers. Its about opposing the black guy in the WH. Before Obama was elected, HL offered the contraception methods it now claims to oppose on religious grounds.

  • Anti-con

    Just the typical actions of all those right wing evangelical businesses that claim they are living according to their “bible based chrizzjun beliefs”…It’s obvious to even the casual observer that those so called “beliefs” are in reality just founded in control over their employees unpinned by simple monetary greed and they are just using the “religion” as socially acceptable excuse to get away with it.

  • AL98

    Shoppers can make a bold statement and choose not to patronize Hobby Lobby. If people shop elsewhere, it won’t be long before they will cease to be a 600 store, multi-billion dollar chain.

    • Postmaster23

      Yep and you can collectively put thousands out of work..wow, what a great idea.

      • RNfromNY

        I’m sure they can get hired at Michael’s.

  • ahrmann

    “Christians Are Not Free to Sue Other Christians”

    Why does Hobby Lobby hate freedom?

  • Funduro

    Greedy Christian Kompany.

  • duanebidoux

    The only kind of life these people have respect for in the whole universe is the fetus.

  • VoF

    ROFLMAO.. funny how many of you sheep fall right in line.. try searching the truth.

    • tbrenna

      The truth is Hobby Lobby buys all their shite from China which practices forced abortion so spare me the silly idea that this company cares about abortion or even contraception…like all fundie conservatives they are power mad and want to control their employees personal life.

      • VeggieTart

        And their retirement plans invest in pharmaceutical companies that make the devices they don’t want their insurance to cover. Now, if they were truly Christian and following their values, I’m sure they could find mutual funds that hewed to their values by not investing in companies whose practices they would find objectionable.

      • VoF

        Is there a law that says they have to work there?

    • expect_resistance

      How about trying to write something intellectual or worthwhile.

      • VoF

        You mean like what you just wrote?

  • John Carlson

    Hobby Lobby is nothing but a Corporate Business model that uses and abuses Religion to further it’s profits. NO BUSINESS should be allowed to claim religious infringement because IT’S A BUSINESS and the whole Business is a Person needs to be thrown out as pure BS. If that was done a Lot of issues such as Citizen Untited, the Hobby Lobby debacle and a huge amount of Tax shelters would disappear.

  • causeican

    No surprise. Their bible says women are second class citizens.

    • PGMGN

      And this Sofia would sell you a bill of goods based on bias rather than science. Chemical birth control and IUDs can be abortifacient in nature. Own it already. Stop attempting to appear brave while hiding your own inconvenient truths.

      Progressives treat all people like half brained boobs – male and female.

      • expect_resistance

        Wrong. We’ve done the research and understand the science behind birth control so you can save your right wing crap for someone else.

        • PGMGN

          Right…. you’ve done ‘the’ research. One doesn’t have to be right wing to enjoy truth. As I said, get your game on and belly up to the reality, ALL OF IT, that you are potentially doing. If you’re that easily led by what so-called scientists, how do you think courts are even now full of experts arguing both sides of science right now. Sit in a court room for a while and let your head spin on that a while.

          Wake up and take responsibility for what you’re doing. Or don’t do it. Pretty simple.

          Margaret Sanger herself said that anything that interferes with an egg after fertilization is abortifacient. Why? Because it is. Not rocket science, expect_ignorance. But these lovelies are now big business and so the science is there to quiet those who might otherwise not partake. Where have you been?

          • expect_resistance

            Why are you yelling at me and calling me irresponsible? You don;t know who I am.

            The IUD, the morning after pill and birth control pills are not abortifacients. This has been proven by science.

          • PGMGN

            Look to what you wrote and ask me again why I might be a little put off, Expect:

            “…Wrong. We’ve done the research and understand the science behind birth control so you can save your right wing crap for someone else.”

            Take responsibility and *expect* folks to react to what you do and say.

            That said, science has not *proved* that a developing child is not prevented from affixing itself to the wall of the uterus by means of the above mentioned devices (something that kills the life, much like child neglect can kill a child), but has rather cast confusion as to what constitutes ‘pregnancy’. That’s changing terms, Expect.

            So tell me, what makes the developing life, less of a life if it is a day prior to implantation rather than a day after implantation? The DNA of the child doesn’t change.

            But if you want to assuage yourself and others into believing that science has proven something by shifting definitions in an effort to deny developing life its rightful home – the womb of it’s own mother – then you’ll have to live with that. Much like women who were told by doctors back in my day that certain medications would only help alleviate morning sickness only to learn that they had damaged the fertility of the daughters they bore thanks to the assurance of science.

            But what of the life? Shouldn’t the womb be the safest place for a child? Even if that child is at the stage of seeking the requisite nourishment to stay alive?

          • dudebro

            Levonorgestrel, or Plan B:

            There is zero evidence that LNG can cause a fertilized egg not to implant.

            1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20933113

            “LNG had no effect on blastocyst viability or hatching and did not prevent blastocyst attachment and early implantation.”

            This same study, incidentally, discussed a clinical trial of LNG and describes it as “ineffective to prevent pregnancy” when taking at the time of ovulation.

            2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23114735

            This is a systematic review. It also discusses the Copper IUD (below) and UPA (below). A discussion of in vivo studies of LNG in other mammals notes that “Treatment with LNG in the rat and monkey does not affect fertilization or implantation.”

            Ella (Ulipristal Acetate)

            Many major scientific agencies-the International Federation of Gynecology and Obstetrics, the International Consortium for Emergency Contraception-have concluded that the answer to the question “could UPA possibly cause a fertilized egg not to implant?” is ‘no’-it just doesn’t have a significant enough effect on the lining of the uterus, but while you can call the LNG question settled the answer to this one is more like “probably not.” You can read a contrasting view here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24440997

            1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2971744/..

            The main mechanism of ulipristal acetate is to inhibit follicular rupture. In other words, it prevents eggs from leaving the ovaries.

            2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22770536

            This discusses the role of drugs in UPA’s class in general, including LNG and mifeprestone (RU-486). It notes that UPA causes a very slight effect on endometrial thickening if taken at a certain point in the menstrual cycle.

            And finally, the IUDs, which HL objects to as well: Copper IUDs work because copper is toxic to sperm.

            1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8972502

            “The current data do not indicate that embryos are formed in IUD users at a rate comparable to that of nonusers. The common belief that the usual mechanism of action of IUDs in women is destruction of embryos in the uterus is not suppor ted by empirical evidence.”

            They also looked for spermatozoa in the uteri of women with IUDs and found that this confirmed the proposed anti-sperm mechanism of the copper IUD.

            “Early signs of implantation have been investigated by measuring biochemical markers in serum during a menstrual cycle, comparing women with medicated IUDs, such as a Cu-IUD, and those with an inert IUD as well as controls. The results showed a strongly reduced incidence of implantation signs in women with the Cu-IUD, indicating its prevention rather than interruption of implantation.” In other words, there aren’t embryos there to implant.

            yes, it has

          • PGMGN

            Nice of you ‘DudeBro’ to cite only those studies that support the use of birth control devices that have the potential to be abortifacients. Of course, your only concern is for women to have reproductive ‘freedom’. Nothing to do with rejecting the inherent fertility of the woman, the whole woman.

            That said, I wonder why the above products state that they have the potential to prevent the implantation of a fertilized egg. Likely just to cover themselves legally for those scenarios where science is proved wrong. Like the science that the copper in IUDs don’t effectively kill the sperm and women get pregnant as a result. The balance of a woman’s system is a delicate and awesome thing, Dude. Hope someday you’ll understand that and not trust someone you love to ‘the survey says’ methodology of quoting single sources as the sole authority.

          • dudebro

            Multiple sources. And Europe goes by the science. None of those drugs are listed as potentially abortificant there. Its just politics and red tape in the USA that keeps it from being updated.

          • PGMGN

            DudeBro – It says right on the Princeton education website that copper IUDs can prevent implantation of a fertilized egg – that is preventing the new life from reaching the necessary nutrition required to grow. That is aborting a new life. The same website falsely advertises above that this is not abortion – which proves it is a name and words game about preventing implantation not being the aborting of a new life. It is.

            http://ec.princeton.edu/questions/ecabt.html

            It is a huge market for pushing birth control on women and convincing them that they must negate their fertility that keeps that from being published. It is much the same reason that keeps the reality of chemical birth control being a Class 1 Carcinogen a big hush as well.

            So sad when human beings cannot respect the beautiful gift of what they are instead of having to be something else. What a market.

          • dudebro

            Yeah dumbass. That’s old info. I have citations from scholarly studies. Shove it.

          • PGMGN

            Such an intellectual reply, DudeBro. Your scholarly attributes are shining like the beacon of intelligence you are not.

            You are likely accustomed to shoving your dumbass agenda intended to fool ignorant people and lull them into the further degrading of human life on those without the logic skills to rebut your drivel. But that is no sign of intelligence, DudeBro. Then again, interacting with you, perhaps the corresponding degradation of IQ and critical thinking skills warrants your self extinction mindset.

            I prefer to give women a voice that encourages them to embrace what and who they are, not what men are or what men advocate women should be. Good tactic though.

          • expect_resistance

            1. I don’t give a rat’s ass if you are put off.
            2. Prove I’m irresponsible.
            3. An IUD is not an abortifacient.
            http://www.arhp.org/Publications-and-Resources/Patient-Resources/fact-sheets/IUC-Myths.
            4. Emergency contraception is not an abortifacient
            http://ec.princeton.edu/questions/ecabt.html
            5. A fertilized egg is not a person. If so start the tampon funeral line.
            6. My uterus is mine. I get to decide what goes in or out of it.

          • PGMGN

            1) Why should you care about me when you wouldn’t even give a rat’s ass for your own offspring – sad, but there it is. Your caring for others and not caring is so very apparent as is your not really caring for yourself – whole and entire.
            2)You showed how irresponsible you were by not looking to your own crass behavior before asking why I was upset with you. Duh.
            3)An IUD prevents a newly formed life – DNA not yours, duh – from implanting in the womb to receive the nutrition needed for it to grow. But you’d probably get all over someone for not feeding a dog. Perhaps only because you were sickened by its pathetic whining, but since your child can’t be heard in there, tough.
            4)’Emergency Contraception’ is code word for oops, meaning irresponsible behavior. Duh. And again, abortion means to terminate something prematurely. Therefore willfully terminating a life by denying it food and shelter at its most vulnerable is not only killing, but cruel. If the poor thing could whine and bother you, then perhaps you would have a care for recognizing it was there. Or if you stood to gain a fat inheritance from an unborn child, you’d sure as shooting think it was life the very second you got even a hint of a blue line on a pregnancy test.
            5) A fertilized egg has different and complete DNA from its mother. So saying, you may not want to start the tampon funeral line – you’re not only irresponsible but grotesque – but you’d sure as shootin’ take DNA as a proof of another person’s existence if you were up on a murder charge and there was another person’s DNA on the murder weapon.
            6)Your uterus is indeed yours, so stop hating on it already and screwing with it without respect for its proper function. And no, that proper function isn’t to just be a play thing or an object of self loathing. Would you defend your right to put acid in your eyes just because they’re your eyes? That’s pretty short sighted and ridiculous.

            So look at the reality of the things that you do, the things you say, and what you promote for others to do without thinking of the realities involved. Regret will be yours too one day. And there won’t be a darned thing you can do about it then. And sorry – that whole tampon remark was the height of juvenile. Disgusting really.

          • Terri Corley

            You are laughable. Irresponsibly ill-informed and downright foolish. You are a mockery of your purposed intelligence.

          • PGMGN

            Just because you cannot face that which is logical is no defense, Terri. Look to the Princeton report: http://ec.princeton.edu/questions/ecabt.html

            If you want to believe that ‘fertilized eggs’ are now some enigma, that is your choice. But don’t attribute that to intelligence, but rather willful blindness. That is yours.

            So saying, if you believe your life to be superior and worth more than that of an innocent who didn’t ask to be created, but was due to the actions of the one who considers themselves so superior and worth it, that is your choice. But own it, Terri. Own it all. Like those who would support caring for puppies, but have no qualms about snuffing out human offspring. Pretty cowardly and sentimental.

          • dudebro

            A zygote is nothing more than DNA, dumbfuck

          • PGMGN

            Yes, that is life, whoever you are. But if there were DNA on Mars, no doubt every paper in the world would declare LIFE on Mars. I’d encourage you to connect the dots, but you want the dots to lead to anything but common sense. Good luck with that.

          • dudebro

            Then your skin cells are people.

          • PGMGN

            No dummy, but the skin cells would indicate that there is a person from whom they have come. Much like the DNA of a developing child would indicate that there is a person. Hellllooooooo. Is there any fully functional reasoning brain cell left that you have no glutted with this claptrap you call science? Good grief.

          • dudebro

            You said that human DNA = a person.

            A human skin cell has all 46 chromosomes and is alive. By your reasoning, a human skin cell is a person.

          • PGMGN

            A developing child has all the necessary elements besides food to develop into a mature human being. A skin cell does not have that capacity, Dudebro. (And it is considered cruelty to deny a human being proper nutrition. Isn’t it?)

            That said, the DNA of this ‘zygote’ is indicative of another life besides that of the woman. It is a developing child, dudebro, despite how you’d like to distance yourself from that reality.

            You can argue to the extent of the progressive narrative intent denying life in lieu of personal pleasure, and it’ll get you nowhere as Truth always outs.

          • dudebro

            Skin cells can become embryos with a little help. Every zygote needs a lot of help to become a child. Both have potential. Who are you to deny a skin cell the right to life?
            .

            And I assume that you think it would not be morally problematic to kill a clone, since the DNA is not unique?

          • PGMGN

            Skin cells cannot become embryos, dudebro. As to the moral dilemma caused by men continuing to attempt to be God, which they are not, a clone would be the replica of someone else. So there would at least be some gray area to say… it’s my body. But that cannot be said when the developing child has clearly distinctive DNA. It’s not the woman’s body. She’s making a call about what life she considers more important. Very simple.

            That said, you’re for killing vulnerable children. Just own it.

            Progressives are so brave in the killing, but so cowardly in actually naming what they do. Weak. Weak. Weak. Cowards to the bone.

          • dudebro
          • PGMGN

            Well then, don’t kill the poor developing child if you take the time to bring it into being. Do you kill puppies, too.

          • dudebro

            A zygote is just a potential child. As your skin cell is.

          • PGMGN

            No, dudebro. A fetus (zygote if you’d like to distance yourself) is a developing child, not something I have to mess with to begin the process of cell division which would be required in a lab. The process is begun at fertilization which you well know. No, correction, the process began by having sex which, OMGosh, is intended for reproduction.

            So promote killing if you’d like. But own it as such. You seem to eager to own everything else save the repercussions of poor and/or blind choices.

          • dudebro

            The process actually begins long before fertilization with the egg. If the egg isn’t healthy, every conception will die. A successful conception is NOT proof of life.

          • PGMGN

            A successful conception is life as to conceive means to become pregnant with a child. Look it up. And when does ‘conception’ occur? Upon the union of egg and sperm.

            Please, no more desperate attempts to avoid the truth, dudebro. You obviously have no mind for reality.

          • dudebro

            Do some reading, this is what embryologists have to say on the matter:

            http://discovermagazine.com/2004/may/cover

            If the egg has defective polarity this means that yes, the sperm WILL fertilize it, and yes, it CAN implant, but it will miscarry 100% of the time due to the initial defect.

            So no, sperm meeting egg does NOT automatically result in a viable individual. More often than not it results in a non-viable clump of DNA.

            No point trying to hide your ignorance. You are pathetic.

          • PGMGN

            That would be natural death or failure, dudebro, not willful killing by intentional harm or neglect. Babies can be born with a heart condition that will ensure they die directly after birth. That doesn’t mean they weren’t a human child.

            You reason like a non-viable clump of DNA.

          • dudebro

            No dumbfuck, it means that “life” begins when the egg is created, and not at conception. Conception is meaningless if the ovum is defective.

          • PGMGN

            The potty mouth strikes again. Human life starts at conception, not when an egg is ‘created’. You are incapable of holding a conversation or abstaining from grunty behavior. As I said, you reason like a non-viable clump of DNA – no – a non-viable EGG. You haven’t been fertilized yet and reject the seeds of reason. So since there is no viable sign of intellect on your end, I opt to abort. That means end something.

            Good luck to you.

          • dudebro

            Human life starts at conception, not when an egg is ‘created’.

            http://discovermagazine.com/2004/may/cover

            I suggest you read the article. Embryologists would disagree with you.

          • Terri Corley

            You need to investigate what makes a fertilized egg.
            It takes two to make a fertilized egg. The onus is not just a one sided phenomena. I find your disgusting generalities to be laughable, bordering on inane.
            My life is superior to something that is not living. Duh
            Please, read the section of the Constitution regarding personal/bodily autonomy. With regards to that, all your bs is moot.

          • Terri Corley

            Ever care to ponder that any thing, thought, emotion, deed, creation, has already been known to the Universe, the Source, the Oneness? The absurdity that humans can believe that they have had a novel thought or idea is ludicrous. There is nothing that can be done that has not already been thought of by Source. How dare you assume to even come close to knowing this. I believe that souls want to experience as much of the Oneness as possible. Whether it decides to reside at the Source ‘level’ , as it were, or decide to reside in another body to experience Source as that matter. Who are you to decide for a soul that wants to know what it feels like to be aborted? Who are you to decide for a soul that wants to know what it feels like to have an abortion? This extends to many, if not all, areas…to be raped, to rape, to kill, to be killed (being shot, hanging, suicide, etc) Your beliefs are yours. You have absolutely no right to insinuate or insert your beliefs upon no one. Shut your pie hole or come back with serious, scientific debate.

          • PGMGN

            1) Why should you care about me when you wouldn’t even give a rat’s ass for your own offspring – sad, but there it is. Your caring for others and not caring is so very apparent as is your not really caring for yourself – whole and entire.
            2)You showed how irresponsible you were by not looking to your own crass behavior before asking why I was upset with you. Duh.
            3)An IUD prevents a newly formed life – DNA not yours, duh – from implanting in the womb to receive the nutrition needed for it to grow. But you’d probably get all over someone for not feeding a dog. Perhaps only because you were sickened by its pathetic whining, but since your child can’t be heard in there, tough.
            4)’Emergency Contraception’ is code word for oops, meaning irresponsible behavior. Duh. And again, abortion means to terminate something prematurely. Therefore willfully terminating a life by denying it food and shelter at its most vulnerable is not only killing, but cruel. If the poor thing could whine and bother you, then perhaps you would have a care for recognizing it was there. Or if you stood to gain a fat inheritance from an unborn child, you’d sure as shooting think it was life the very second you got even a hint of a blue line on a pregnancy test.
            5) A fertilized egg has different and complete DNA from its mother. So saying, you may not want to start the tampon funeral line – you’re not only irresponsible but grotesque – but you’d sure as shootin’ take DNA as a proof of another person’s existence if you were up on a murder charge and there was another person’s DNA on the murder weapon.
            6)Your uterus is indeed yours, so stop hating on it already and screwing with it without respect for its proper function. And no, that proper function isn’t to just be a play thing or an object of self loathing. Would you defend your right to put acid in your eyes just because they’re your eyes? That’s pretty short sighted and ridiculous.

            So look at the reality of the things that you do, the things you say, and what you promote for others to do without thinking of the realities involved. Regret will be yours too one day. And there won’t be a darned thing you can do about it then. And sorry – that whole tampon remark was the height of juvenile. Disgusting really.

          • expect_resistance

            1. How do you know I wouldn’t care about an “offspring?” Your assessment of me is wrong and very judgmental for someone that doesn’t know me.
            2. I’m crass. So what?
            3. Wrong again. I’m not going to elaborate because what you said is pathetic.
            4. Taking emergency contraception is being responsible. EC is used for many reasons like failure of birth control, sexual assault, etc. Abortion is also being responsible if one does not what to reproduce. No one needs your permission or to explain this to you. And whats with the “inheriting money from being pregnant?” No one could pay me enough to reproduce.
            5. I am correct in saying you believe an fertilized egg is a person. Yeh, good luck with that. Go get on with that tampon funeral.
            6. Are you saying my uterus is only there to “make babies?” No.

            If you truly believe that fertilized eggs are persons then you would mourn every tampon and pad because a high percentage fertilized eggs fail to implant and are sloughed off in a woman’s cycle. That’s reality. Deal with it.

          • ansuz

            “6)Your uterus is indeed yours, so stop hating on it already and screwing with it without respect for its proper function. And no, that proper function isn’t to just be a play thing or an object of self loathing. Would you defend your right to put acid in your eyes just because they’re your eyes? That’s pretty short sighted and ridiculous.”
            My organs exist to enable me to live the life I want, transphobe.

          • PGMGN

            And what you want is disordered, realityphobe. So promote picking your nose to scratch your rear, but that won’t change the fact that that’s now how things work. Not to mention you’ll be pretty itchy.

          • ansuz

            Uhuh. So… if binding my breasts down makes me less likely to feel suicidal… it’s the binding my breasts down that is disordered. Makes sense.

          • PGMGN

            Whether you bind them or not they are still there, Ansuz. And that’s okay. Not sure why you hopped onto this particular topic, but either way I’m sorry you feel suicidal. Not easy that.

          • ansuz

            Well, I’m debating getting them removed in the future. Just like I’d get my uterus removed in a heartbeat if I could.
            As for why, I despise any argument that contends that our minds do not determine our purpose, and the purpose of each part of us.

            And depression does suck, but I’ve got a good treatment plan, so.

          • PGMGN

            We can choose what we want to do, but that doesn’t ultimately determine our purpose in being, Ansuz. The reason being is that ultimate purpose for being created doesn’t change. It is higher than, I believe, our piddly brains can imagine.

            The road for getting there are the choices we make. And feelings – much like the chemical impulses in our brains – can change on a dime and how. That said, one’s ultimate purpose, to me, has to be fixed much higher than what is to be had by the whim of change. It just has to be in light of the incredible complexity of nature and our position within it.

            That is not to say that you’re suffering is a whim. Not to say that at all. But don’t do something permanent based on feelings about your own body. You may not think it to be a gift, but it is, Ansuz, and in the form that it is, too. If you’ve never brought forth a child or fed that child – something that might freak the dickens out of you at present considering your mindset. that thought freaks many women out and it’s a shame – you have no notion of how potently empowering being female can be. How potently empowering it truly is. Be well and…

            God bless.

          • ansuz

            Okay, look, you probably mean well, but this comes across as incredibly condescending.
            I also find it hurtful, like a punch in the gut, when people who hardly know me assume they know better than I do about what’s going on in my mind and what is good for me.

          • dudebro

            The ol’ uterus argument.

            Two asshats on SPL are currently making the argument that the prenate has a ‘natural right’ to the uterus because the uterus is necessary for the prenate to live!

            I still can’t believe that people are using this argument.

            “well, if you have a natural right to your body, then clearly, the prenate has a natural right to your uterus, because that’s just how it is, by nature’s design’

            ffs

          • ansuz

            That argument needs to be killed in a fire.

            btw, this is where I’ll be getting a kitty from: http://servicedog.ca/programs/emotional-support-animals

            They train devon rex cats to help people keep schedules.

          • dudebro

            OH wow, cool. I didn’t know such a thing existed! That’s great. People often underestimate how an animal can really help you out, sometimes more than a person.

            Unless that animal is a wery wery bad Abyssinian kitty! Then, your life will be filled with tears:( (crawls on my shoulder like a parrot when I am at pc trying to type)

          • ansuz

            Yep, it’s awesome. And it’s something I’m actually looking forward to, which is kind of a big deal in my current state of mind.

          • Terri Corley

            Hey, there is this thing called the Constitution. In it, there is a section defining a right to personal/bodily autonomy. So, again, wrong wrong wrong and fail fail fail. Read about it and learn something, please

          • ansuz

            Dudebro’s pro-choice. She was talking about an argument other people are making.

          • Terri Corley

            Oops, sorry dudebro. Read that wrong. Thanks for pointing that out, ansuz

          • Terri Corley

            Yes. Science has proven that it cannot affix to the uterine wall. It must first be fertilized, to become eligible for implantation. It is not a child. At this point, it is a zygote. Then, it becomes am embryo and then it is a fetus until it is born.
            Um, shifting definitions? No. Wrong. Oh, unless you are referring to your definitions that have shifted from the proven scientific definitions. What part of science do you not understand. Again, just because you believe in something does not make it true. The burden of proof is on you.

          • Terri Corley

            Both sides of science??!! What? There is science and there is not science. Those are the two sides. Just because things are brought to court does not mean they are science.
            And, seriously, Margaret Sanger? Really? Cherry-pick much? Yes, yes you do

          • PGMGN

            Cherry pick much is right, Terri. Read the report:

            http://ec.princeton.edu/questions/ecabt.html

            You can go seeking out my posts to rebut them with your science, but you need to look at science as a whole, Terri.

          • dudebro

            Old information. In Europe, the information has been updated and is in line with many current studies which demonstrate that birth control ONLY prevents ovulation.

            if birth control prevented implantation, women wouldn’t be able to get pregnant while on it now would they? The ovulation repression doesn’t always work, and when it doesn’t, an egg is feritlized and it is able to implant, dumbfuck

          • Terri Corley

            I say the same as you.
            What point are you trying to prove? The fact of the matter remains, if birth control, all forms, is not accessible then the abortion rate will rise. And, extremely un-safe abortions will arise, also. Again, what exactly is your point? It seems as if you don’t care about the life that already exists. Not to mention, you’d rather be right

          • PGMGN

            The point is Hobby Lobby has the right to not want to contribute to the destruction of human life, Terri. Your assumption about others not caring about human lie that already exists is contradictory. Not only because you do not know and haven’t inquired about my stand on other issues, but because you seem to negate the fact that preventing implantation kills a life. That, Terri, is aborting life. To prevent that is indeed caring for human life.

            It is also caring for human life to encourage women to stop treating themselves like sexual toilets. Not sure how you stand on that or why you will not concede your own error with regard to the abortifacient aspects of certain types of ‘birth control’ but that’s your problem.

      • mwair

        If you check, you will find that other medications that are not related to birth control can cause abortions/miscarriages.

        • PGMGN

          You don’t say.

          Of course there are other medications that ‘can’ cause abortion/miscarriage. But that doesn’t negate the fact that this article is bogus in stating that abortifacients do not cause abortion. But those medications are not directly used for getting rid of or preventing the natural function of a woman’s fertility.

          I am so appalled that young women today hate themselves to such a degree as to loathe the functioning of their own body. How misogynist and pathetically anti-woman. And to think that men don’t take advantage of women hating on their own fecundity is a joke.

          • Terri Corley

            This article states no such thing. They are not abortifacients because THEY ARE NOT ABORTIFACIENTS.

          • PGMGN

            Using bold to reinforce lies won’t make the lie go away. Just like attempting to redefine abortion to mean only killing a life – post implantation – will make killing life anything but what it is.

            So while the Princeton Study likes to make definitive claims about what does not cause abortion, they refuse to address the issue of what it means to inhibit the growth of life itself. That is a fertilized egg with a full compliment of DNA – that’s another human being, not an alien from mars or a tumor.

            “…The copper in Copper-T IUDs can prevent sperm from fertilizing an egg and may also prevent implantation of a fertilized egg.”

  • henryrii

    odd that 90%of shoppers at Hobby Lobby are women.
    boycott this hidious corporation now.

    • VeggieTart

      Well, there aren’t a lot of guys into crafting, I guess.

  • dagobarbz

    Every day in every way the notion that Christians are basically terrible people is reinforced by people like these.

  • tbrenna

    Not Christian…Hobby Lobby is just scummy.

  • charlotte

    Ah the do as I say not as I do crowd.

  • martinsnapp

    Let’s not rush to judgment here, folks. Gotta give Hobby Lobby time to concoct its cover story.

    • Paul W

      They’ve already failed to respond to multiple requests to tell their side. What makes you think they’d suddenly decide to speak up now?

      • Di

        They’re still trying to figure out how to spin it to not look like the horrible non-christian company that they are.

  • Tevis T

    Buried at the bottom of the story…she’s already had kid NUMBER 4!!!!

    • martinsnapp

      And that means….?

      • IslandTyger

        It means she’s not white and not acceptable.

    • weRstarstuff

      Not as many as Romney

      • Tevis T

        But the Romneys are makers, not takers….

        • Di

          Mittens is a taker. He loves taking from all of our hard work.

          • Tevis T

            Mitt created more jobs and opportunity than any of you left wing leeches ever thought of. Go join a public union and suck some taxpayer dollars. Get lost.

          • expect_resistance

            Oh because you know all. *eyeroll* Mitt is not a job creator. You know what creates jobs? Demand for goods. If no one can earn a decent living and gets fired for having a baby then there is no demand for goods. Clearly you don’t understand economics.

          • Tevis T

            Something tells me this woman has the latest cell phone (and all of her kids too), the latest designer purse, her kids have the latest $100 tennis shoes, and she does plenty of “consuming” to stimulate the economy…..

          • expect_resistance

            Are you psychic?

          • Tevis T

            Are you pshyco?

          • expect_resistance

            I asked you first.

        • expect_resistance

          Bull$hit!

        • weRstarstuff

          She`s not a taker either

        • Dez

          Now that is the “pro-life” we know. When black women have children they are lazy welfare queens. When white women have children, they are godly makers.

    • Chris

      Buried at the bottom? You mean clearly stated in the 4th paragraph which is closer to the top then even the middle. And she was pregnant with number 3 not 5. But now she has 4 kids. Try learning how to read you idiot.

      • Tevis T

        No such thing in the 4th paragraph. Learn to count you parasite.

        • expect_resistance

          The 1% are the parasites.

          • Tevis T

            You mean like Michael Moore and his 9 houses? Or Oprah Winfrey, or Nancy Pelosi, or George Soros?, That 1%?

          • expect_resistance

            Hey, I’m not a liberal. I’m an eco-feminist anarchist. I don’t favor anyone in the 1%.

          • Tevis T

            Ok, explain this one to me: If you are an “anarchist”, then by definition you are opposed to any authority. So there should be no authority governing what one does with the environment, correct? For that matter, how would you propose advancing “feminism”? Really, I’m just curious.

    • clarknt67

      Isn’t that a Christian imperative to have lots of babies?

      • Tevis T

        Yeah, but you’re supposed to get married first. Note, no mention of a husband.

        • PGMGN

          Thanks Tevis T for pointing out reality that others think they can brave-new-world away.

        • expect_resistance

          What century are you living in? It’s 2014.

          • Tevis T

            The question was, isn’t it a Christian imperative to be fruitful and multiply. And my response is that it’s also Christian doctrine to get married before having children. I also, personally, believe you should be in a committed relationship before having children. Having an abandoned father myself, I know from personal experience that it’s important for a child to have a mother and a father.

          • expect_resistance

            Glad I’m not a Christian.

        • DonnaDiva

          Why do you assume she’s not married? Why would they have to mention a husband? I mean, other than to reassure certain readers that she’s not one of those fornicating harlots?

          • Tevis T

            They’re going into immense detail about the events, the job, the employer, and they mention her other children. That there is no mention of a significant other is a natural conclusion. I bet none of her children even have the same biological father.

        • Dez

          LOL. You and PGMGN dance around what you really want to say. You want to view her as the racist stereotype of the lazy welfare queen. You never hear the same complaints aimed at white women having multiple kids. Just come out and admit it you want to shame her for being black and having more than one kid. At least be honest like your god would want.

          • Tevis T

            If there was any mention of a father or husband in this story, I would agree with you. There is not. There’s ample detail of the woman, the number of kids, the company, and the situation—multiple paragraphs. And not one mention of a father. Stereotypes develop because of consistent predictors of behavior.

          • Dez

            Then you can not assume anything unless you have proof. Otherwise it’s pure speculation and should be dismissed. Nice racism there. Blame the woman for your racism by claiming it’s the fault f the black community for racist stereotypes. I bet you blame a rape victim for the clothes she wore. Pathetic.

      • PGMGN

        The Christian imperative is to – gee – treat your body with as much respect in the sexual arena as others would have when pushing the need for a healthy diet. Balance is key, remember? And sometimes restraint. Why is it that everyone wants to be free and natural with everything but what the human body and sex is supposed to do.

        Complete disconnect from cause and effect. So incredibly, hypocritically inconsistent. Except the consistency of progressive hypocrisy.

        • DonnaDiva

          Thanks for making it clear this is about sex for you, not “life”.

          • PGMGN

            Sex is an integral part of life, Donna. Where have you been? That’s like saying digestion is all about what you eat. Well, duh.

            That said, why is it that so many so called progressive youth want to look at cause and effect regarding everything but having sex? Well, likely because that’s the line ‘they’ don’t want to regulate or think of logically.

  • Paul W

    I’m sure SCOTUS is probably kicking themselves for their decision right now after hearing this story.

    • ME-B

      That’s a joke, right?

  • Telametoduro

    If she was white there would be less harsher commments here.

  • expect_resistance

    How is this not surprising? HL are hypocrites.

  • John Danielski

    Companies deliberately lying to cheat employees out of unemployment has become common. Its interesting that a so called ” Christian Company” is no better than those professing no faith at all. Hobby Lobby’s so called Christianity is an insult to the Commandment,” thou shalt not bear false witness.” What frauds these people are, hiding their malfeasance behind a fake Christian veil.

  • Mathius

    The article is incorrect. The four methods of birth control that Hobby Lobby is exempt from are considered abortifacient by the FDA, Planned Parenthood, and NARAL. As clearly stated in the Supreme Court arguments, supplied by those organizations. Now, lets get some professional journalism on this blog: “and to be clear, this is only her side of the story.” What about the others side? The writer claims that Hobby Lobby did not comment is misleading. A corporation cannot comment on such matters as it violates the Privacy Act of 1975. That is a well known fact. If the writer wanted the information on employee hiring/firing practices, it is found on the webpage. Interesting to note, most corporations have the same policy when it comes to arbitration. Finally, was is Hobby Lobby corporate the one being held responsible by this blog? It is obvious it was the local manager who made a wrong decision. Is corporate even aware of the situation?

    • clarknt67

      Also… Because Jesus.

    • IslandTyger

      You are lying on the wrong website, my friend.

    • IslandTyger

      Really, I can’t get through all the lies in your post. (Employment lawyer here, don’t even try.)

      • Mathius

        Riiiiight. Everything I posted checks out on Fact Check. By stating your job tells me one of two things: your not or you took the Sally Struthers home course.

    • dudebro

      The four methods of birth control that Hobby Lobby is exempt from are
      considered abortifacient by the FDA, Planned Parenthood, and NARAL

      You’re wrong. Ignoramus.

      Levonorgestrel, or Plan B:

      There is zero evidence that LNG can cause a fertilized egg not to implant.

      1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20933113

      “LNG had no effect on blastocyst viability or hatching and did not prevent blastocyst attachment and early implantation.”

      This same study, incidentally, discussed a clinical trial of LNG and describes it as “ineffective to prevent pregnancy” when taking at the time of ovulation.

      2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23114735

      This is a systematic review. It also discusses the Copper IUD (below) and UPA (below). A discussion of in vivo studies of LNG in other mammals notes that “Treatment with LNG in the rat and monkey does not affect fertilization or implantation.”

      Ella (Ulipristal Acetate)

      Many major scientific agencies-the International Federation of Gynecology and Obstetrics, the International Consortium for Emergency Contraception-have concluded that the answer to the question “could UPA possibly cause a fertilized egg not to implant?” is ‘no’-it just doesn’t have a significant enough effect on the lining of the uterus, but while you can call the LNG question settled the answer to this one is more like “probably not.” You can read a contrasting view here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24440997

      1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2971744/..

      The main mechanism of ulipristal acetate is to inhibit follicular rupture. In other words, it prevents eggs from leaving the ovaries.

      2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22770536

      This discusses the role of drugs in UPA’s class in general, including LNG and mifeprestone (RU-486). It notes that UPA causes a very slight effect on endometrial thickening if taken at a certain point in the menstrual cycle.

      And finally, the IUDs, which HL objects to as well: Copper IUDs work because copper is toxic to sperm.

      1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8972502

      “The current data do not indicate that embryos are formed in IUD users at a rate comparable to that of nonusers. The common belief that the usual mechanism of action of IUDs in women is destruction of embryos in the uterus is not suppor ted by empirical evidence.”

      They also looked for spermatozoa in the uteri of women with IUDs and found that this confirmed the proposed anti-sperm mechanism of the copper IUD.

      “Early signs of implantation have been investigated by measuring biochemical markers in serum during a menstrual cycle, comparing women with medicated IUDs, such as a Cu-IUD, and those with an inert IUD as well as controls. The results showed a strongly reduced incidence of implantation signs in women with the Cu-IUD, indicating its prevention rather than interruption of implantation.” In other words, there aren’t embryos there to implant.

  • clarknt67

    Because Jesus. You liberals wouldn’t understand!

  • IntelliWriter

    The Greens’ faith is a dollar deep.

  • Charles Hammond

    So what was Hobby Lobby’s response to this? I tend not to believe these kinds of one-sided stories. This woman can claim anything she wants to. It does not mean she is telling the truth. Hobby Lobby is an arts and crafts store. I don’t think they hate women.

    • clarknt67

      I tend not to believe what radical fundamentalist Christians say, the kind that buy all their crap from abortion happy China.

    • IntelliWriter

      Hate them? No. Control them? Yes.

      • PGMGN

        Why not let everyone control themselves. It is possible, IntelliWriter. Especially when one connects the reality of the body that sex is primarily for procreation. No medical degree required, just common logic.

        • Dez

          So women should be brood mares and pump out as many kids as possible unless you are black. If you are white and christian then go right ahead. You “pro-lifers” are so ridiculous.

  • HoldenLitgo

    What a surprise.

  • Matthew 6:5

    BOYCOTT hobby lobby!

  • gator

    These people are complete geniouses. I mean where else can you totally insulate yourself from litigation using not only the arbitration clause, but the bible? Hence do what you want.

  • Jeff Hall

    That’s the modern GOP for you in a nutshell ->

    LOVE THE FETUS, HATE THE CHILD

    Why? Because feigning concern for the fetus does not cost them a red cent. Forcing a woman to go through with a pregnancy against her will does not cost them one gd penny.

    Raising a child? Now that’s completely different. Don’t even think about wasting my tax dollars on feeding or clothing the child that you did not want that we *made* you have, they think.

    • MrsGreene

      well of course forcing births costs tax dollars, too, since poor women who are pregnant qualify for Medicaid for prenatal care and delivery, plus I believe in most states, that they continue to be eligible for Medicaid for a certain number of months after delivery.

    • mikeflannigan

      The DNC in a nutshell: Lie like hell and never stop.

    • mikeflannigan

      No one is forcing a woman to go through a pregnancy. Sick of listening to made up leftist vomit. Insulting.

      • RNfromNY

        Then why shut abortion clinics?

  • PGMGN

    Hey Sofia at Reality Check – get real. Some forms of birth control are abortifacient in nature. If you cannot come to grips with what certain chemicals and IUDs do, then don’t use them. But don’t lie either. Just mucks up any credibility you think you have.

    But the truth does hurt at times.

    • IntelliWriter

      Where did you get your MD? I tend to believe doctors–ya know, those people who went to school for this kind of thing. They say that these drugs do not cause abortions, but prevent pregnancy. There’s some truth for you.

      • PGMGN

        intelliWriter: Where did you get your notion that a being with completely different DNA from the mother doesn’t constitute new life just because it hasn’t attached to the womb yet? The Truth for you is you do not want to know the truth because it’s really rather ugly.

        So own it, own it all, or grow a pair or some-such. But don’t perpetuate myth by word-smithing. There’s nothing intelligent in that, just the same old same old.

        • KSNY

          PGMGN, Is there a birth control method you could actually endorse?

          • PGMGN

            Something that works by respecting a woman’s body. I mean if one is living holistically, not just religiously, wouldn’t that be the obvious method?

            Nobody would advocate bulimia as a fantastic diet technique, would they? Or placing foreign material in a woman’s stomach or intestines. Lord knows, men would never go for that. So why can’t people learn to work in accordance with nature – I’ll never know. We respect animals more than we do ourselves.

            Women should respect their fertility, too. It’s a gift.

  • Davina Baxton

    So what do you think happens if you decide NOT to sign their “Arbitration Agreement” when you apply for employment???

    Right !!

    So if you want to work for us, you have to surrender your right to fair treatment, however (just so you know), we won’t be giving up any of our rights ( Corporations are people, however people ARE NOT corporations)

    Tough huh!!

  • Charles Hammond

    Just because it is on the Internet, it does not make it true.

    • ME-B

      It doesn’t make it untrue either.

  • dw1_kw2

    She tried to come back to work after 3 weeks….I don’t think so. What doctor would release her to return after 3 weeks? At the very least you might get a doctor’s release for 4 weeks but the it is usually 6 weeks. If you check all chain stores the policy is the same for part-time or temps. If you take a leave of absense…you are not promised your position when you are able to return to work. Interesting that nothing…NOTHING is mentioned about her job performance with Hobby Lobby. Did she have reprimands? Did she call out a lot, without a doctor’s note? Was she late to work? Did she get along with her co-workers? Did she follow written policy? Such a 1 sided story with the full intention to Christian bash!

    • ME-B

      Who says she has to do what the doctor says? The woman is probably desperate to feed her kids, and had no choice. I don’t think you should judge until you know what she is up against.

      • dw1_kw2

        If the employer knew that she had a medical condition….which they did…. it is their respondssibility to ask for a doctor’s release stating that she is medically eligible to return to work, if they wanted her to return to work.

    • clarknt67

      You’re wrong. Federal law guarantees women the same or equivalent position upon return from maternity leave. http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/pregnancy.cfm

      • Di

        She wasn’t on “maternity leave.”

      • dw1_kw2

        sorry, she was a part-time employee who had not worked the 1250 hours or 12 months of full-time employment to qualify for FMLA. Family Medical Leave Act is job protection for full-time employees who are unable to work due to their own illness or a qualifying family memebers illness. Part-time and full-time are 2 different animals.To quote what you just sent me…” To be eligible, the employee must have worked for the employer for 12 months prior to taking the leave and the employer must have a specified number of employees” Also the article fails to say that she was discriminated against while pregnant. She was asked to re-apply when she was able to return to work. Every thing in this article is one sided to bash Hobby Lobby with very little documented facts and what little facts that are presented are from a disgruntled employee. Journalism at it finest!

  • crazybabiesmom

    Anyone else here ever read The Store by Bentley Little?

  • PGMGN

    Further reading on Sofia’s ‘credentials’ in journalism, specifically her own bias against Religion and Reality, are a must read before reading what ‘Reality Check’ deigns to be real journalism. Bias rag is more the word. Nothing more than becoming that which you say you’re fighting against – narrow minded bigotry.

    • clarknt67

      Classic shoot the messenger ad hom.

    • mikeflannigan

      Exactly. Well said.

      • PGMGN

        Sadly, even something well said will go unheard as a majority has been taught to only digest sound bytes of the approved narrative. A narrative carefully prepared and marketed at every opportunity by those intent on farming them like dumb animals. What tools.

  • bullet2

    Really the place is sh*thole and I would boycott it if I ever wanted to go into it in the first place

  • Brick Heck

    And we’re 100% certain that she was model employee with an impeccable record?

    Ms. Resnick, let he/she without sin cast the first stone.

    • alwaysthink

      That so Xstain of you!

  • Kris Weibel

    Religious hypocrites…oh that would be an oxymoron.

    • VeggieTart

      You mean a redundant statement, yes?

  • Di

    Proving Hobby Lobby is no different than many corporations. They couldn’t care less about their employees. They hide behind “Christian” values when they have no values at all. This is about as one-sided as you can get.

  • rickraton

    She won her unemployment suit eventually but paid a heavy price in worry over supporting her new baby. She was willing to go back to work in only 3 weeks.

    I think Hobby Lobby needs to be punished for their inexcusable behavior

  • henrythe8thiam

    Why did she wait 3 years before wanting to come back to work? She sounds like a moocher to me.

    • Di

      3 weeks.

      • henrythe8thiam

        Read it again, 3 years !!!

        • pbtad

          “She says she tried to come back to work three weeks after her child was born, to no avail.”

          • henrythe8thiam

            Yeah, but there was no record of that, also she never re-applied. Much more to this than the article lets on, wonder why?

        • Droppo

          I just read it again, and it says three weeks later she tried to return. This story just happened three years ago, and you are believing that means she is just now trying to get her job back. LOL

          • henrythe8thiam

            Wrong, there is so much more to this story. Like there is no record of her trying to get her job back, like she never reapplied like she was told to do. So after three years, what do you think is the reason this is just coming to light? Here’s a hint SCOTUS……

    • Sheryl Clyde

      Learn to read the whole story correctly and not insert words that fit your agenda. The whole case about their religious rights was about GREED and you conservatives fell for it.

      • henrythe8thiam

        It’s in the first paragraph you buffoon !! And FYI, I’m a democrat.

        • Sheryl Clyde

          IT says and I quote”She says she tried to come back to work three weeks after her child was born, to no avail.”

          • henrythe8thiam

            All you have to do, is keep believing what you read. There is so much more to this case, any idea why it took three years? And is just now surfacing? Here’s a hint: SCOTUS…….

        • Sheryl Clyde

          personally i think you only looked at her skin color and decided to only see what you wanted to see.

          • henrythe8thiam

            Yeah sure, that’s what it was, happy? Google “useful idiot”

    • Sheryl Clyde

      She waited until the last moment to leave she was 9 months pregnant until she finally went on her leave.

      “I asked her would I lose my job due to me being four months and only
      having five months before I have my child. She told me ‘no,’” Allen
      said. “I felt like everything was OK. I had talked to my boss, and she
      let me know that everything would be OK. I would still have my job.”
      But five months later, when the time came to take her leave of
      absence, Allen says her supervisor told her she would be terminated but
      could reapply later on”

  • D. Tree

    [“Christian conciliation,” which is a form of religious arbitration
    described on its website as “a process for reconciling people and
    resolving disputes out of court in a biblical manner.” It’s a type of
    conflict resolution geared toward churches and Christian organizations.
    (Jewish and Muslim organizations use similar types of religious
    arbitration to handle disputes.)]

    Except when Muslim organizations try to use this kind of arbitration, they get discriminated against with bigoted “anti-sharia” laws.

    Someone try to explain how Christian conciliation is any different that Sharia arbitration. Good luck convincing me… you’ll need a pretty good argument.

  • garwin1

    The Hobby Lobby people are what I would term “religious grifters”.

  • harviele

    I would never shop in Hobby Lobby or any other business that I know discriminates against anyone because of race, religion, sex or creed. There are many other places to shop for crafts etc. Anyone who disagrees with the Supreme Court ruling on the Hobby Lobby case should boycott Hobby Lobby for ever bringing the case to the Supreme Court in the first place. Of course the Supreme Court should have thrown the case out in the beginning.

    • VeggieTart

      I’ve long thought that any business that claims to be a Christian business is one I should take great pains to avoid patronizing.

      • harviele

        Probably so unless it is a Bible store or one that sells religious things and that is what you are looking for. Otherwise they are probably pretending so you will trust them. Sort or like a used car salesman proclaiming how honest he is… that goes for lawyers and politicians too…

  • ibcyn

    Well I can see the sheeple have fallen for another of the left wings propaganda articles. Did you see the title????? Allegedly??? I’ll bet there is more to this story than Ms. Allen wants to reveal! So until I hear all of the story, and I mean ALL, I’m not going to be like a lot of you and take this at face value.

    • Sheryl Clyde

      Funny the story mentions other cases as well. I knew greed was behind it and not religion.

      • Sammee777

        I would like to hear HL’s side of the story, but for some reason they have declined to provide it when given the opportunity. Can’t help but wonder why that is.

        • pbtad

          So would we. The article says they were asked multiple times to respond and they chose not to.. From the article:

          “Hobby Lobby did not respond to multiple requests to tell its side of the story or to answer questions about its maternity leave and other
          company policies.”

          Even assuming privacy/litigation issues they wouldn’t even explain their company’s maternity leave policies at a high level.

    • Texasace00

      Some religious nut calls us sheep, priceless….go back and hang out with your talking snake, the one right next to the burning bush, moron

  • Bree Zee

    Allen should have paid attention to what she was signing and investigated her rights if she didn’t know any better. Free legal advice is available through the state government.

  • Sheryl Clyde

    I kept telling people it had nothing to do with their religion but greed pure and simple and Conservatives fell for it.

  • bubba10

    Never, ever, ever set foot inside a Hobby Lobby. The face of Jesus, the heart of Satan.

    • RideMadone

      I’d like to stand outside one on public sidewalk and hand out satanic literature to customers

  • Judi

    I’m sorry, but someone who’s only been on a job less than 6 months and takes any significant time off generally is NOT going to have a job to come back to. She was told she would be terminated but would have an opportunity to reapply for a position. Honestly I’m very surprised that she received unemployment benefits. She wasn’t laid off, she took time off for a baby.
    It would be different if she had been on the job for a year or more, but she already was 4 months when she started the job.

    • Smky19

      Your comment is completely contradictory. You admit she was told she would be terminated, but then you say that she wasn’t laid off! Just to clarify, yes, she absolutely was laid off/terminated and hence, had rights to unemployment benefits. She asked for her job back after only taking 3 weeks off and they said no. That’s called termination.

      • Judi

        Being laid off and being terminated are different things in my understanding – you get laid off when that job you hold temporaily or permanently ceases to exist. Terminated means you lose your position altogether, you are no longer employed by that company – sometimes your fault, sometimes it’s not, but generally speaking when you are terminated you have to prove .
        Bear with me – I “AM” older and my attitudes are reflected in my own experiences when I took maternity leave 20+ years ago.
        I just don’t understand how this could be such an issue or why she would have had a case to begin with. She was a part-time employee who had only been on the job for a few months. That’s a huge difference from the protections of a full time employee who has held a position for more than a year that takes a maternity leave.

  • cp123

    Why anyone who thinks they have employment rights as a part-timer is beyond me. You have none and never had to begin with. Leave the job, find another later. Let your husband support you in the meantime if you bothered to get one.

    • ME-B

      Wow, the jokers are out in full force today.

    • Texasace00

      I’m guessing Jesus told you to say that?

  • sounder

    Surprise! Hobby Lobby is in it for the money and all that Christianity talk is just a business gimmick.

  • A_nonymoose

    “Christians” are hypocrites? I’m shocked, shocked I tell you!

  • http://www.afj.org/ Alliance for Justice

    Forced arbitration is a huge problem. If it *really* were better for employees, then corporations wouldn’t have to force people into it. We have much more about this on our website here: http://www.afj.org/our-work/issues/eliminating-forced-arbitration

    Alliance for Justice
    Washington DC
    http://www.afj.org

  • hangdogit

    Hobby Lobby sets a bad example for Christians…as petty, small-minded, vindictive, bullying, sexist jerks.

    They may be Evangelical — meaning promoters of Jesus — but I doubt that they attract anyone but small-minded bigots like themselves.

  • nuffsaid

    Don’t believe everything you read

  • Mallory Knox

    She wasn’t fired for her pregnancy, she was fired for not following procedure. This is a very biased and one sided take on this. I hope the general public is more intelligent than to believe this tripe. Further, she is referring to her baby as “it”? That speaks volumes about her.

    • Christine Cuneo

      Thank you.

    • Texasace00

      I suppose you are the first one to blame another because lets face it, you ain’t real bright. Must be Obama’s fault

      • Mallory Knox

        Your comment makes no sense. First, the one to blame is the one who apparently don’t bother following procedure out lined in the employee handbook. That is the only one to blame. Second, how does Obama enter into this? Apparently “you aint real bright” is that is the most intelligent comment you can manage.

    • dudebro

      so what.

      if the company value life, as they claim, they won’t fire her and leave her precious fetus without a working mother because of mere procedure you callous shit nyou

  • Angst

    Christianity stops where the $$$$ begins.

  • Callahan

    Typical Alinskyites . Politics of personal destruction . Sore losers . Pathetic negative people who cannot stand anyone who happy and living a positive spirit filled life .
    Is this the best you can do to demonize the Green family ? The Hobby Lobby family ? The U S Constitution ?
    Funny how you insert some far left demands into a piece of legislation after it was
    ” passed”” and which was passed based upon bribes , lies , deceit , and total partisanship , under the cover of night and then complain when someone says ” whoa , this is not right ” .
    Not to mention it violates the Constitution .
    Grow up people …. you lost !

    • Angst

      This sounds like someone who wants to work, not depend upon the government for a handout. Your use of the term Alinskyites in this case is completely wrong.

    • Texasace00

      It’s easy to pretend, but no we are not fooled, you are a moron…any history book can fill you in on the great positive influence organized religion has had on human beings

      • mikeflannigan

        Yeah, like the religious cult of liberalism that tried to force it’s morals on the Green family illegally.

        • Texasace00

          I was against the HL ruling, felt it opened a door we didn’t want opened, not to mention it was a decision based on good old Green family greed. Now Satan worshipers want exemptions, and more to follow. You think Muslims deserve exemptions too, or Satanists? They should, according to YOU

          • mikeflannigan

            Nope. The ruling was narrow, and said so, and you’ve been fed a load of intolerant fascist lies. What Obamacare was doing in trying to force the lefts morals on Hobby Lobby was ILLEGAL and against a law that Clinton signed and Reid, along with most all the democrats, who are now lying about it, all voted FOR. Don’t you wish you were informed? Look it up, and while you are at it think about all the Goebbels BS you’ve been subjected to. Then you’ll of course go right back to them for more information in the future. You have to actually care about being lied to.

        • Dez

          Like the morals of this so called christian business that fired a woman with children at home to support. You would think christians would be all about taking care of the children with their “pro-life” stance. But of course we cant expect christians to back up their rhetoric.

  • krivka

    So based on the facts provided in this article, Hobby Lobby LIED to prevent her receiving unemployment benefits. And lying is ok for Christians. (that of course was rhetorical, of course it is.)

  • Mag

    Religious arbitration. Is that like Sharia law?

  • Carlos Santiago

    I feel for the mom; so many have abortions because it cramps their lifestyle or goals. It will be important to hear the other explainations, as to what occured. Being pro-life also means taking consideration for the newborn and older. Thats not what it appears, but again I’ve only heard a portion of the truth. Peace

  • Droppo

    The whole decision of the Supreme Court was based around the idea that the Hobby Lobby company was a “closely held” religious family company that believed strongly in Christian ideals. This sort of story proves that not to be true. So the case should be (but of course never would be) reversed on the basis that they are liars who just didn’t want to follow a particular law and used religion as their excuse to get around it.

    • mikeflannigan

      The provision that Hobby Lobby was exempted from was illegal, and the fact of the matter is that Obamacare was trying get around the law with their idiotic war on women lie. Aren’t facts fun when you step out of the Goebbels echo chamber of lies?

  • HonestTX_Proud

    I would fire that cooner for having such hideous hair.

    • AlphaNerd

      You are an embarrassment to our nation. You even embarrass Texas.

      • HonestTX_Proud

        Says who? You ? A self claimed nerd? lol !! Lick it , You got a half a pudgy for that welfare queen?

  • garynofishing

    Simple solution—Employees at Hobby Lobby need to Unionize

  • splais

    Let me tell you a short story about this “christian” company. They wanted to move into a mall in a town where a friend of mine lives and had a small sports bar & grill. It just so happened that after eight years the bar & grill’s lease was up for renewal. Hobby Lobby informed the mall owners that they would not locate in the mall as long as the bar & grill was also located there. The mall informed my friend they would not renew the lease and why. The bar & grill was forced to close throwing about a dozen people out of work. Yeas, great christian values HL – never shop in that place. They are in fact, hateful bigoted people.

    • CAStr8talk

      The bar and grill wasn’t able to open up at a different location? Must not have been very successful in the first place. I see small businesses relocate all of the time.

      • AnnaG0327

        Why should they have to relocate?

      • AlphaNerd

        They relocate because they are in a financial position to do so and the relocation will be profitable in the long run. You rebuttal is false similarity.

      • splais

        It was voted the best B & G in town for the past five years; but they didn’t have the $80k needed to relocate.

    • mikeflannigan

      Pack it up. Don’t believe you.

      • splais

        I’m sorry you don’t believe this; but that is your problem. Why would I make something like this up. Wish I had permission and I would tell you the town and bar.

  • AlphaNerd

    Hobby Lobby does not christian values. They offered the very same contraceptive coverage to the executive employees in their insurance plans that they refused to cover under the ACA. It was a political maneuver to undermine the ACA. Nothing more.

    • mikeflannigan

      In other words the intolerant fascist left attempting to force it’s morals on Americans via Obamacare and for no other reason than to take a swipe at Christians and you got smacked down by the LAW. Oh, and the liars that control you mind – voted for the law. For those of us that are informed you people are utterly unbearable.

      • AlphaNerd

        I am exceedingly informed on the issue. You, however, are just spouting the same mindless drivel you were fed by Fox news.

        • mikeflannigan

          Thanks for your mindless knee jerk “Fox News” talking point, but you forgot to scream something about the Koch Brothers. The provision in obamacare forcing companies to provide morning after pills is patently illegal and was signed by Clinton and voted for by Reid and many of your other liars. Turn on Fox News and you might know something, but I doubt you want to. Might destroy the whole house of lies that support your life.

    • BelligerentBruncher

      Do you think corporations have the right to free speech?

  • WreslingMajor

    Christians being hypocrites, who would have thought….

    • mikeflannigan

      Democrats being fascists and morons. Typical.

      • Dez

        Tell us how this fits in with the christian “pro-life” movement that supposedly cares about babies.

  • Anthony Pauly

    I never have and never will spend a cent on this company. We still reserve the right, whether Christian or not, to picket the dickens out of this group on a daily basis. Women should be lining up with signs in hand at the front door of these hypocrites.

    • mikeflannigan

      Women should be lining up at DNC headquarters for being treated like idiots by the party.

      • Anthony Pauly

        Your party should have known better that to provide the idiotic Sarah Palin the opportunity to sabotage a fine candidate like John McCain or to back that whacko Michelle Bachman with RNC cash. At least the DNC idiots aren’t running the party.

        • mikeflannigan

          Again, women should be lining up at DNC headquarters for being treated as if they are idiots. Oh, and you can stop your war on women. Palin was right about death panels and Russia invading the Ukraine and there’s nothing you can do about it. Too bad you don’t even know waht I’m talking about. The DNC treats men like they’re idiots as well after all.

        • mikeflannigan

          Oh, and Pelosi is the dumbest woman in America and you made her speaker of the house. Biden is dumb as a sack of rocks. Reid belongs in an institution and Obama is destroying the United States and you voted for him.

    • mikeflannigan

      I’m going to triple my patronage to this patriotic establishment to more than make up for it. Thank you Hobby Lobby for standing up for religious liberty in the face of intolerant fascism.

  • Anthony Pauly

    Execs are hiding behind their Bibles to gain maximum profit margin. Shameful!

  • Christine Cuneo

    Better get your facts straight before you air another lie. Afro Americans have been know to fabricate racist stories.

    • The Postman

      Poe’s law. I really can’t tell. Are you being satirical or are you just an idiot? Also, Afro-Americans? Seriously?

      • mikeflannigan

        The pretense of stupidity defense. Yawn..

  • AxelHose

    I’m guessing that many of you did not get to the paragraph way down the page: “To be sure, Felicia Allen is only one among the thousands of employees who have worked for Hobby Lobby since the early 1970s, many of whom have likely worked for the company without issue. And, to be clear, it’s only her side of the story.”

    • theonethatlived

      In the next paragraph “According to federal court records, over the years, several employees
      have filed job discrimination lawsuits against Hobby Lobby claiming age,
      disability, race, and sex discrimination—which is common for many
      corporations. But due to the fact that Hobby Lobby avoids lawsuits and
      the fact that little information about arbitration cases is made public,
      it’s difficult to evaluate the company’s treatment of its employees
      beyond its assurances that they are paid above minimum wage and well taken care of.” What about this?

      • AxelHose

        So you’re gonna assume the worst based on what?

  • rdbend

    not the least bit surprised. goes with the territory for anyone trumpeting their own holiness

  • Scooter Livingston

    Most likely she was fired for not being the White kind–oops–I mean the RIGHT–oops–I REALLY mean the CORRECT kind of person that Hobby Lobby wants as an employee…

    • mikeflannigan

      Put down the cue card, racist.

      • Scooter Livingston

        Pray tell, teatard…how am I a racist?

  • Ernie

    Is Mississippi an “at will” state? If so, then the employer probably doesn’t need to give a reason for terminating someone’s employment.

    • mikeflannigan

      Yes, it is, and she had just started and was working part time. Propaganda Goebbels would be proud of.

  • Lloyd

    HL is only Christian when they can profit from it.

    • mikeflannigan

      Thanks for the DNC talking pint. Easier than thinking.

      • Lloyd

        Didn’t know it was a DNC talking point but should have figured. It is so obvious. You know Christians by their actions, and HL’s actions show they are not Christians when it might hurt their bottom line.

        • mikeflannigan

          When are you going to provide a job for every pregnant woman in the US? Oh, and whether they are a good employee is irrelevant. Now, go forth and practice your bigotry and judgement based on the pen of Goebbels.

          • Lloyd

            Oh, wait – you are assuming she is a bad employee – so that makes it
            alright. Oh wait, she is pregnant, so that makes her an entitlment
            welfare queen and discrimination alright – even encouraged.

            I think your post shows your pretty much an idiot. Did hobby lobby fire her because she was “not a good employee?” I didn’t read that. The supervisor said “for taking unpaid time off to have her baby.” That is fair enough – Hobby Lobby has to have somebody there to check out customers.

            When she ask if she was going to loose her job (she did not qualify for FMLA job protection – not enough time) – she was told “no” but then Hobby Lobby fired her and told her to reapply. She was apparently lie to there, but I understand HL’s position – they have to fill the Job so ask her to re-apply when she is ready to work and they will consider her.

            But then HL lies to prevent her from collecting unemployment benefits. That is just mean. Why would hobby lobby do this? Unemployment insurance is priced based on how much has to be paid out to former employees. Deny benefits and you costs goes down. HL refuses to comment, so we don’t really know their side of the story. But you seem to make a lot more assumptions than what is stated in the story.

            Give my regards to your “Fuhrer” when you reach your finial reward.

  • The Postman

    Radio Shack does this. Had to have neck surgery and needed a month off. They wouldn’t give it to me. Said I could quit and then be rehired later. As if.

  • AlphaNerd

    Hobby Lobby does not have christian values. They offered the very same contraceptive coverage to the executive employees in their insurance plans that they refused to cover under the ACA. It was a political maneuver to undermine the ACA. Nothing more.

    • mikeflannigan

      No they didn’t.

  • 遥远亨利

    One thing stood out to me. Allen didn’t ask her store manager, but merely a “supervisor.” For a large retail store (based on physical size) like Hobby Lobby, the immediate supervisor to a cashier is usually a shift manager or service manager. These people are not trained in benefits.

    What likely happened was her supervisor didn’t know corporate policies and gave Allen the wrong instructions. Most large corporate retailers allow for unpaid personal leaves of absence for childbirth if they do not qualify for maternity leave due to length of employment. So if Allen followed the advice of her supervisor, then she probably removed her availability for an extended period of time instead of requesting and receiving approval for unpaid leave of absence with an anticipated return date. That is how most corporations work, including a national retailer I used to work for as a store manager.

    Her supervisor should be fired for misleading her. Believe it or not, retail scrapes the bottom of the labor pool.

  • Jake

    Hobby Lobby is not about Christianity it’s about the dollar. So don’t shop there if you don’t support their thinking, simple.

    • DEJ123

      I won’t

    • theonethatlived

      Never have shopped there even before the issue of birth control

  • pjsolarz

    As is usual with this publication and the one that led me here, there is only one side of the story. Any little tidbit the HuffPost or any of it’s allies can get and use to manufacture some BS story, they’ll jump all over it.

    • smh

      Hobby Lobby declined to comment.

    • mikeflannigan

      Exactly, but they know that their readers are morons and treat them as such. Hahaha!!

    • Sheryl Clyde

      Well even in the bible it talks about wolves in sheeps clothing referring to false Christains and the fact that it was a rich company in the first place should have been a warning flag to you but you all choose to ignore.

      • Sheryl Clyde

        Asguard in replay to your comment there are lots of stories about how hard it is for the rich to enter heaven. My point was that you all were deceived by a company who used you to get what they really wanted increased profits.

    • one_of_the_people

      What is bs in this story? …your comment?

  • Peter Gatliff

    Thomas Jefferson stated if the religions take over our government it would only lead to “Ecclesiastical Tyranny”.

    • mikeflannigan

      Which is why it’s imperative that the left not be allowed to force it’s cultists religious morals on everyone else.

      • Pick6

        Crazy talk.

        • mikeflannigan

          So now you’re speaking in tongues? What the left attempted to do with Obamacare is force IT’S morals on others just like we see on a daily basis while they lie and claim that it’s the victim that is doing it. It was completely unnecessary and an attempt to subjugate Christians with the power of the government in their war on religious liberty. Threatens their own region and don’t want the competition.

          • Pick6

            Ours is a secular nation. We are protected from the tyranny of religious dogma by our Constitution. Further, I take exception to being lectured on “morals” by people who are hateful, ignorant, and bigoted – and seemingly proud of it. A quick scan of your comment history shows you to be possessed of those 3 characteristics in abundance. Shame on you

          • mikeflannigan

            In other words liberalism is a religious cult that seeks to force it’s morals on everyone else while lying and blaming the victim of what they are doing. That’s why the SC sided with HB and against the left that was practicing religious tyranny. And you were attempting that tyranny out of hate, ignorance and bigotry against Christians.

  • Scienceguy

    If you work for the Devil, you have to play by his rules.

  • fedup_now

    The whole story sounds fishy to me. Who knows, this lady may be getting paid from Democrats to try to set up hobby lobby. It is a “He said, She said” game.

    As far as her signing the statement that she wont sue, that is a binding agreement and she should have used the sources verses just going the legal route.

    • Sheryl Clyde

      According to federal court records, over the years, several employees
      have filed job discrimination lawsuits against Hobby Lobby claiming age,
      disability, race, and sex discrimination—which is common for many
      corporations. But due to the fact that Hobby Lobby avoids lawsuits and
      the fact that little information about arbitration cases is made public,
      it’s difficult to evaluate the company’s treatment of its employees
      beyond its assurances that they are paid above minimum wage and well taken care of.

    • L-dan

      Yeah, they paid her back in 2010 to set this all up, including her 2012 suit. *eyeroll*

  • mikeflannigan

    Somebody make me a sandwich. How am I supposed to eat if somebody doesn’t make me a sandwich?

    • http://diegueno.tumblr.com/ diegueno

      You brought your own red herring to the discussion, now eat it.
      Problem Solved

      • mikeflannigan

        But I’m hungry. Why would you deny food to a hungry person? Now make me a sandwich.

        • http://diegueno.tumblr.com/ diegueno

          eh, go ask Eric Bolling to fix you a sammich; he is about as fluent in logical fallacies as you are…he knows what trolls like a lot better than I would

          • mikeflannigan

            What kind of person would want to starve someone? Why are you denying me a sandwich? Now make me a sandwich. There should be a law forcing you to make me a sandwich. Otherwise I can’t have one.

          • http://diegueno.tumblr.com/ diegueno

            the key word in my previous reply to you was troll

          • mikeflannigan

            In other words Ive revealed the utter stupidity of the left’s argument and you just called them all trolls. Now, make me a sandwich before I starve. Stop denying me my sandwich.

  • Roger Wilco

    I think it is hilarious that all you fools read what “she said” and then call it fact, I suppose because you read it on the innernets. A bunch of brain dead fools.

    • Sammee777

      Personally, I would love to hear HL’s side on this, but apparently they have declined to provide it. Since they willing chose to do that, we can only base our opinions from the one side we’ve heard from.

    • Sheryl Clyde

      Your the fool i guess you missed this part “According to federal court records, over the years, several employees
      have filed job discrimination lawsuits against Hobby Lobby claiming age,
      disability, race, and sex discrimination—which is common for many
      corporations. But due to the fact that Hobby Lobby avoids lawsuits and
      the fact that little information about arbitration cases is made public,
      it’s difficult to evaluate the company’s treatment of its employees
      beyond its assurances that they are paid above minimum wage and well taken care of.””

      • mikeflannigan

        Those kinds of lawsuits have been filed against every corporation in this country thanks to the most litigious society on earth, mam. Fools is right.

        • Sheryl Clyde

          Well then what do they have to hide by the fact that Hobby Lobby avoids lawsuits and the fact that little information about arbitration cases is made public, I am a Christain and i dont hide anything. There is not one person anywhere that does not know something about me. I am not blackmailable can you say the same?

    • mikeflannigan

      Bingo. Exactly.

  • jamminjjs

    Whichever side your on, live with it.

  • George H. Baldwin

    Let’s add Hobby Lobby to the boycott list, right beside WalMart.

    • http://diegueno.tumblr.com/ diegueno

      Which boycott list?

      • George H. Baldwin

        The one you carry around in your car, and the one you have tacked to your refrigerator.

  • Margaret Fuller

    Over the last several years, I’ve steered away from any organization that calls itself a Christian organization. Seems like every time I deal with one, I get screwed, and that applies to most individuals I’ve ever met. I guess because they have been told they will be “forgiven”, they think it’s right to rob, rape, and repent.

    • Dirty Harry

      If you get screwed, it MUST be God’s will. I say say that sarcastically.

  • lalameda

    Here’s the thing about fundamentalists. To them, PREGNANCY is the PUNISHMENT for WOMEN who have sex, whether they wanted to have sex or not.

  • Charles Almon

    Everything. EVERYTHING these so called “Christians do,
    is about their “bottom line’.

  • MBO

    Well, I can see where this is going. A closely held corporation does not want to experience coercion of conscience, and so from this point forward, everything happening there will be scrutinized by the internet lynch mob.

    There’s plenty of room to step back and realize we don’t have all the facts, here.

    One very volatile area is that business of “I talked to my boss, and she said it will be “OK”.

    So many times, these kinds conversations are preloaded with wishful thinking, poor definition of terms employed and wrinkles that impact the outcome.

    Get real. The local manager did not call Hobby Lobby Headquarters, and seek their guidance on how to trick this girl. Yet the bloggers place this incident at the feet of corporate HQ.

    Something went wrong in the communication, for sure. But if a later investigation exonerates Hobby Lobby, would you all retract your quick-draw condemnation?

  • angela1124

    She applied under false pretenses. She was 4 months pregnant at the time and yet she “didn’t know”. She most likely knew that she wouldn’t get hired if she told the truth. She didn’t deserve maternity care even though she tried to lie to get it.

    • Sheryl Clyde

      She was 9 months pregant read the story. She waited until the last minute to take her leave. IT also says hobby lobby lost their attempt to give her unemployment beneifts. She sounds like a very responsible person to me. Wow hobby was so christ like that they not only fired her but tried to make her starve by denying unemployment benefits.

      • angela1124

        “Shortly after starting the job, she learned she was four months’ pregnant with her third child.” (quoted from the above story)

        • Sheryl Clyde

          She applied under false pretenses? Are you kidding me? What pregant women should not have jobs? You would rather they live off of welfare?

          • angela1124

            No she can work, but she can’t expect to receive benefits when she lies to get them.

          • Sheryl Clyde

            Funny if she lied about getting her job under false pretenses then why did she win? “”When Allen applied for unemployment benefits, she says Hobby Lobby’s
            corporate office gave the unemployment agency a false version of events,
            claiming she could have taken off personal leave but chose not to. In
            the end, Allen says she won her claim for unemployment benefits,””

          • Sheryl Clyde

            Unemployment is a goverment run agency and i know for a fact they dont like to help out unless you can prove your claim. But then you think she should starve and live off of welfare. But then you would scream about her being on welfare and why doesnt she work? So in your eyes either way she loses.

          • Sheryl Clyde

            I lost my first job as a cna for turning in nurses and cna for causing a patients death due to neglect and I was fired for it claiming that because I turned a patient who had never been turned before (which your suppose to do if they can’t do it themselves to prevent bed sores) that I did it incorrectly even though I had another cna there to help me. Because the patient had been neglected she was surprised by us turning her even though we explained why we were doing it and of course she complained about it and it was used to fire me. I applied for unemployment and guess who lost and was investigated. They lost and they were investigated. So unless you have lost your job due to a employer being a jerk you have no right to judge.

          • Sheryl Clyde

            reread the story she won her case with unemployment. The goverment sided with her. So who was the liar here? But in your eyes if she gets welfare for not working then you scream about it and if she gets unemployment to feed her child so she can look for another job you scream about it so either way she loses.

    • ItsJustMe

      BS on false pretenses.

      Potential employers aren’t permitted ask if a candidate is pregnant & she has no legal obligation to tell them either unless it would interfere with her ability to do her job.

      Assuming that there is truth to her story, all she wanted was the ability to come back to work after taking UNPAID time off after giving birth. That hardly seems like someone trying to get over on them.

      • that guy

        she must have been a bad worker they did not want back

        • ItsJustMe

          That’s entirely possible. Or disposable. A lot of retailers think of their cashiers that way- dime-a-dozen, easily-replaced etc. Sometimes that’s true, sometimes it isn’t. Back in my retail days, a lot of those seemingly disposable workers thrived when new managers & supervisors gave them responsibility

        • Dez

          Evidence?

  • SD

    Someone needs to explain to Hobby Lobby that birth control prevents abortion.

    • that guy

      The four they are not paying for kill fertilized eggs

      • Pick6

        No, they don’t. It continues to amaze me how so many people post nonsense they read on RWNJ websites that they haven’t fact checked. I’d be embarrassed to be so publicly willfully ignorant. Guess it’s OK with folks like you.

      • Terri Corley

        Do a wee bit of study before you open your mouth next time

  • Dirty Harry

    This was not because she was pregnant. She left, terminated her employment without just taking a leave of absence. Then files for unemployment (eventually gets it) and then wants her job back. All she has to do is reapply. She’s whining to news agencies, which probably means she’s whined every step of the way. Sorry, I don’t think her story is credible.

    • gump_

      She couldn’t file for unemployment because she was a part-time employee with two children. She reapplied, they denied her, and then she tried to get unemployment.

  • SD

    So this is how it works for Hobby Lobby.
    People should not be allowed to have abortions because the life of the unborn child is sacred. People should not have access to birth control because they should not be having sex out of wedlock (and we all know married couples would have no need for birth control). If someone does get pregnant out of wedlock they should lose their job because, let’s face it, what kind of morals is that showing. Then they should have to raise this “sacred” life without a job so the child can live in poverty to pay for the terrible sin of its mother. Is that basically how it works?

    • theonethatlived

      Well said! Two thumbs up!

  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tweety Tweety Bird

    Some clever attorney needs to get around the arbitration clause by claiming it’s duress to sign such an agreement as a condition of employment.

    • theonethatlived

      This would be great. But of course private companies can have their employees sign just about anything as a condition of their employment. Comes down to “do you want the job or not.”

      • L-dan

        And Labor has been gutted, so there’s no help there.

  • Dr. Evil

    Maybe they found out that after she worked there for a while she was useless.

    • Dez

      Cite your evidence.

  • Estoban

    If you don’t read and understand what you are signing, you have no one to blame but yourself.

  • saul rosenberg

    From the Huffington Post 3/29/14
    “The right wing, which has been trying to push a Benghazi “scandal”
    What Hillary said” What difference at this point does it make?”
    So Ariana, this pregnant lady’s case is 3 years ago, so let me quote your hive queen… “What difference at this point does it make?”

    • theonethatlived

      Had to bring up the Benghazi scandal. What difference does it make? It is a look into that company’s hypocrisies of their being a Christian held company. They are a for profit company that uses it when it suits them.
      As for Mrs Clinton’s “whats the difference” statement it is clear you misunderstand the context of that. From what i have read/researched, what she actually meant is what difference does it make now after the facts. What happened cannot be undone. Yes some need to be held accountable for what happened, but those that are doing their best to bring down the Obama administration keep going down the same “rabbit hole.” When they come up with the same answers, they rephrase the question in the hope of getting an answer that suits their agenda. Oh how we digress

      • saul rosenberg

        ” From what i have read/researched, what she actually meant is what
        difference does it make now after the facts. What happened cannot be
        undone”
        Precisely my point. So who cares what happened to someone who lost their job 3 years ago? Why is a job more important than lost lives?

        • theonethatlived

          Not that anyone actually “cares” about this woman losing her job. Is your question meant to be rhetorical?

          • saul rosenberg

            No, the question is trying to work out the perplexing mental gymnastics liberals play to find outrage over one thing and not the other…classic doublethink.

          • Pick6

            HaHaHa Laughing at you now. You’re cranky.

          • saul rosenberg

            HaHaHa! Not really.

      • mikeflannigan

        It makes a difference if they were killed in a terrorist attack or not, and Hillary’s concocted and insulting feigned outrage routine was nothing short of an admission of guilt that they all lied about it.

    • gump_

      they are still doing it, that’s the difference

    • Pick6

      HaHaHa You just had to work BENGHAZI!!!111!!! in to the conversation, eh? SMH

    • TwoFeetThick

      BENGHAZI!

      Drink!

      • saul rosenberg

        Yes of course. Liberals are all for murder, whether it be 4 in Benghazi or 1 million babies a year…wait, I forgot. Abortion isn’t murder..lol, unless a pregnant woman is killed,THEN it’s ,murder.

        dou·ble·think
        ˈdəbəlˌTHiNGk/
        noun
        noun: doublethink; noun: double-think
        the
        acceptance of or mental capacity to accept contrary opinions or beliefs
        at the same time, especially as a result of political indoctrination.

        • Pick6

          I just looked up “double think” and your name was the first example. HaHaHa

    • pete14789

      BENGAZI 4 dead ,,,,,TWIN TOWERS 3000 dead

      • mikeflannigan

        No one lied about 9/11. Try using your brain as opposed to living your life as no more than a DNC propaganda tool. Think you could do that for your country? Thanks.

    • mikeflannigan

      I’ve seen the HP publish flat out lies that came directly from the WH. Ariana Huffifngton is one of those Algore type leftist that figured out how to make a fortune off stupid people.

  • Bobbi Jo

    First why did it take three years to say anything and second there are too many facts not in evidence to know what happened.

    • theonethatlived

      Chances are it too a while for this to surface because there had to be some investigation and fact finding. That HL has not commented usually means they are circling the wagons getting advice from their lawyers.

    • L-dan

      It notes that she brought suit in 2012. Hired in 2010 sometime + nine months to deliver + recovery + trying to return to work, then working through unemployment, etc, tack on some time to even find someone to take on a suit and to prepare it, that sounds about right, really. It’s being brought back up as people look into HL more thanks to their high profile case.

      • Bobbi Jo

        Oops, I missed that part but it certainly does make sense.

    • mikeflannigan

      Now don’t be coy. We both know why, don’t we?

  • theonethatlived

    Any time a profit based company “hides” behind the we are a Christian company label, there is dirty laundry. Happens within the non profit religious based companies as well. They use this to reach the masses of those that are convinced these companies are about what Jesus teaches and are better that all other because the profess they are Christians. The worse people I have ever been around.
    They pretend to be “good, caring” people, especially when they are in church, but watch them outside of those walls. Just saying

    • badgered

      “Any time a profit based company “hides” behind the we are a Christian company label, there is dirty laundry.”

      Could be. But man am I glad those Non-Christian profit based companies don’t have any.

      • theonethatlived

        Really? I am sorry I did not spell it out that Non Christian profit based companies are the same as any company. I did not complete my thought, will be more careful next time

        • badgered

          My point is that most for profit based companies will have dirty laundry, yet for some reason we all (myself included) expect a “Faith Based” company to be different. Maybe they should be different. Perhaps some are.

          Maybe we just need to look at all companies for what they are, not what we want or expect them to be. Treating them all the same.

  • http://batman-news.com shadalee

    I worked for Hobby Lobby in the warehouse. I was unpacking a box that had some broken glass. A small piece got in my eye, causing a lot of pain and drainage. My boss wouldn’t let me leave. He made me mop the floors and clean the bathrooms, all the while my eye was red and draining. I never went back. They paid minimum wage and treated their employees terribly

    • mikeflannigan

      One guy is “they.” Awesome. I hear that your uncle Louie was a pile of dung.

  • Sheryl Clyde

    Wow what a “”Christ like company” she waited until she was 9 month pregant to take her leave. Then they tried to starve her by denying unemployment benefits. Seems to me that Conservatives Christians were fooled into helping false greedy corporation who used religion to help increase profits.

    • mikeflannigan

      Goebbels pinned an article, and you seig hailed in your bigotry glee.

      • Pick6

        Yup, you’re drunk. hic

        • mikeflannigan

          Yeah, they tried to starve her. You people don’t even try to hide it, do you?

          • Scooter Livingston

            Hey mikeflannigan….

            Fuck You.

            Have a nice day.

      • Sheryl Clyde

        I hate to pop your bubble but I am a christian.

  • badgered

    “Because she had not been working for very long, Allen did not qualify for leave under the federal Family Medical Leave Act, which is what she said the Oklahoma City-based chain offers for maternity leave.”

    I would guess, this loophole gave them a means to terminate an employee they weren’t completely satisfied with for whatever reason. Which oddly, is not illegal or uncommon in the business world from what I’ve read. It may not be nice, it may even be unchristian. But seriously, if this were McDonalds… would you care?

    “The mutual arbitration agreement Allen signed gives employees the option of choosing to find an arbitrator either through the nonprofit American Arbitration Association (AAA)—the largest dispute-resolution service provider in the United States – or the Institute for Christian Conciliation (ICC)”

    So they have an option. Good.

  • moiraesfate

    See… the big problem in this country is that the religions have way too much power. But then, so do the republicans. And neither care much about the people no matter what they say. Their actions speak far louder than their words.

    • mikeflannigan

      Yes, the leftist religious cult has too much power, but in this case justice was done and they didn’t get to force their morals on Hobby Lobby.

      • Pick6

        Are you drunk?

        • mikeflannigan

          Facts are really shocking to you people, aren’t they? It comes from never being exposed to them from within your DNC / MSM cabal bubble. What Obamacare tried to do was impose the left’s morals on Hobby Lobby in violation of the law for no more than a power play on Christians. Now make me a cake before I call the authorities and have you commited to a reeducation camp. He has no idea on earth what I’m talking about, folks. Andria Mitchell didn’t tell him.

  • SD

    I amazed how the same people can
    1. Be pro-life
    2. Be against allowing people access to birth control
    3. Always seem to comment that “people who can not afford children should not have children” when any type of social assistance for families is being discussed

    There seems to be some contradiction there.

    • pmmarion

      You misstate the 1st item on the list… They are NOT pro-life. They are anti-abortion, which makes the other 2 items meaningless.

    • mikeflannigan

      The idea that Hobby Lobby is denying access to birth control is two lies in one. Why don’t you try informing yourself. Hint: The DNC / MSM ain’t gonna do it for you.

      • SD

        Actually Hobby Lobby is refusing to allow certain types of birth control to be covered by health insurance because of their religious views. So yes, they are refusing to allow people access to birth control.

        Why should Hobby Lobby be allowed to force their religious beliefs – about medical decisions – onto their employees? It should not be their business if or what type of birth control their employees choose to use – as long as the medical community has accepted it and it is legal. What if they were a religion that did not agree with blood transfusions? Would it be acceptable for them to decide those would not be covered?

        I had an ACL repair a couple years ago. There are 3 accepted procedures – using part of the petellar tendon, part of a hamstring tendon, or tissue from a cadaver. What if Hobby Lobby’s religious view was that you should not put anything from a dead person into your body? Then the cadaver procedure would not be an option.

        Okay – but what if you needed a heart transplant. The heart is coming from a dead person. Can they decide not to cover that on religious grounds?

  • Gregory Peterson

    “…the process that Jesus sets forth in Matthew 18:15-20 and 1 Corinthians 6:1-8…”

    So, Peacemaker Ministries thinks that Paul, who wrote 1 Corinthians, was actually Jesus? Paul never claimed to be God.

  • kaya4life

    Shop at Michaels! Hobby Lobby stores are nasty!

  • Pam

    company best known for denying its employees insurance coverage of certain contraceptives—on the false grounds that they cause abortions.
    Propaganda at it’s finest.

    • Pick6

      Yes, propaganda and hypocrisy since they have investments in companies that manufacture contraceptives. I wonder if the Green family regrets opening this can or worms.

      • mikeflannigan

        The Green family has no problem with contraceptives so what are you talking about?

        • Pick6

          Clearly you have no idea what the suit was about. Not surprised a bit. Nothing says “duh” like a RWNJ comment.

          • mikeflannigan

            Thanks for the projection. The Green family has no problem with contraception and is providing 16 different types. Have you ever thought about informing yourself, or would that destroy your whole left wing world view? Why, yes. Yes it would.

  • gump_

    Hey republicans, Jesus was a hippie. He was about as anti-establishment as you can get.

    • Pick6

      Yup. He was the first hippie and the most famous community organizer of all time. Today’s version of the GOP is nothing more than a bunch of people who coalesce their base around mutual hatred, willful ignorance, and fear. They are an embarrassment to our nation.

    • Jolly Rodger

      Yeah, he was SO anti-establishment he told us to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s. Paul taught that we are to live by the rules of established governments when they don’t conflict with God’s law. Real rebels there. Jesus’ message was a spiritual message, not a political one.

      • gump_

        by establishment I meant social and economic hierarchies.

  • http://martinwellbourne.com/ CardinalFang

    Sue them till they can’t see straight.

  • Economist2011

    Pro lifers can be a hypocritical bunch.

    • Pick6

      I think it’s a requirement.

  • Jerry Harness

    So, a so-called Christain business lets go an employee for taking time off to give birth; and even worse, forces them to sign an one-sided agreement to reliquish all legal rights (while Hobby Lobby is fully free to take them to court). Personally, I think it should be illegal to ask employees to sign such an agreement. No contract should ever force an employee to give up their labor rights. What is next? Will companies come up will legal agreements where employees only get paid 1/2 the minimum wage, or must work 24/7, or have to vote for a certain political party? Where do we draw the line?
    This same kind of crap happened in Silicon Valley, where IT tech used to make 100K+, now make 50k, but because of a signed agreement, they cannot leave the company and work for competitor, while the companies themselves sign agreements where they won’t hire from each other and set predefined pay rates; legally manipulating the labor market, to take the market out of labor. Is it any wonder wages are stagnant? HINT: Pay rates are never market driven, regardless of the claims; because coersion and manipulation make these market factor nul and void. Did anybody wonder why so many jobs pay exactly the minimum allowed by law? Do you think market factors set wages (as some claim) or are most jobs simply paying the smallest amount allowed by law, with little concern of the employee’s value to the company.

    • Jolly Rodger

      Market forces indeed DO play a part in what specific jobs pay, regardless of your denial. In the case of minimum wage jobs, they’d pay even LESS if there was no minimum wage law. Why? Because they require no specific skill set — anybody can do them – and there are 100s of millions of people that are ABLE to do them. Contrast that with ANY skilled profession or job where the employer MUST pay well above minimum wage in order to attract qualified employees. If the employer does not offer an attractive wage/salary for that specific skill set, his competitor will.

      • Jerry Harness

        Did you say skill set? When did work not become work? So you think cleaning toilets and mopping floors is easy work that doesn’t deserve a fair wage? And what kind of work did slaves do? If it was of no value. why would someone pay to house and feed them? If todays minimum wage is too low to house and feed you, then you make less than slaves. But lets put this into simple terms you might understand. If you have someone cleaning your house 40 hours a week, so you don’t have to, they deserve a living wage. Maybe not a high wage, but a least enough to live on; otherwise the rest of us tax payers must pitch in to help support this person your too cheep to pay a fair wage. Besides, regardless of how you think, everyone can NOT do hard work. In fact, you have to develop skills or you get fired, so calling these minimum wage earners

        And maybe you chose not to read my comment past the first line, but wage suppression is very real. Programmers in silicone valley can NOT simply leave for better wages, when the competitors have signed an agreement with your company to 1) Not hire you for 5 years & 2) Not offer higher wages. And maybe you haven’t noticed, but employers DON’T have to pay better wages. They can simply bring in workers via h1-visas, who work for 1/2 the pay and this forces all others in their field to accept less pay. This is the same kind of crap that happened just before the Great Depression, with fools spouting off how low wages help everyone; when it really only helps those at the top, who need it the least.

        Sure left up to natural markets, wages do increase, but it has been decades now since we had natural markets. 20 years ago, our minimum wage was the highest in the world. Today, we are well below the rest of the developed nations, if not 1/2; and look how much these stagnant wages have helped our economy. Not one bit. In fact, we lost our #1 spot some time ago and the rest of the world knows it.

        Maybe your too young to remember, but there once was a time when the basic workers in our nation could still have a life. Your claiming that they don’t deserve one; when in fact that are the one doing the work that has to be done. Without them, we don’t even have a society, so show some respect for those who work hard and do the jobs the rest of us don’t want to do.
        But maybe you need facts to see the nasty trend. Lets compare the last 30 years to the previous 30 years and see if you notice the obvious.
        Period —— US productivity —— Wage increase bottom 90%/Top 10%
        1950-1980 ——- + 60% ———- +60% / +60%
        1980-2010 ——- + 60% ———- +15% / + 265%
        We used to have shared prosperity. Not any longer. Notice how US productive has not changed, yet our economy sucks. Why? Because all the people doing the actual work are not getting fairly compensated anymore. I can show you many nations will better economies and better pay. Please show me just one nation with lower pay and a better economy. Just one.

  • DesertSun59

    Remember how this works, folks. Based on the abundant evidence of how fundies operate in the US, you are golden if you’re a fetus, but you are on your own once you 1) have a birthday 2) are breathing air and 3) have a birth certificate.

    • mikeflannigan

      That must be why conservatives are the most charitable, while liberals are the most gullible, and rely on endless talking points because thinking is too hard. Oh, and it must be why Cruz and Beck are on the border feeding the children your president told to make a treacherous journey so as to increase the ranks of democrats. Wonder how many he killed?

      • Seraph4377

        Conservatives are only the most “charitable” if you count giving to their own churches. Remove that from the equation, and it’s the lefties who pull into the lead.

        And neighbor, giving to your own church isn’t charity. It’s club dues.

        • Pick6

          Exactly. Tithing is like a debt on an installment plan. Not a bit charitable but required.

          • Seraph4377

            The requirement is beside the point. The point is that their so-called charity benefits them. It keeps their clubhouse in good repair, keeps it cooled in the summer and heated in the winter, and makes it so their preacher doesn’t need to focus on any other job but keeping them entertained.

        • mikeflannigan

          Churches are down on the border feeding the children your “president” trucked in to increase democrat ranks. Wonder how many he got killed. Liberals are the least charitable, and the least honest.

          • Seraph4377

            Let me get this straight. There are 53 million Hispanics in the United States. 17% of the total population. They are the largest, fastest-growing minority group. Predictions are that by 2060, they will be 128.8 million, or 31%.

            And you think Obama bused in 57,000 children, giving himself a significant headache in the process, for the sake of…what? Running up the score in 2024?

  • knitqueen49

    First of all: FALSE GROUNDS that contraceptives cause abortion!!!? WRONG!!! YES THEY DO!!! If you get pregnant the contraceptive CAUSES the ABORTION BEFORE you even know you are pregnant!!! Secondly WHY did this girl WAIT THREE years to bring her case up!!??? The timing is more than a little suspect to me!! Because Hobby Lobby rightfully WON their case maybe!!!?? This so called “investigative reporter” had better check her facts before she spouts off with anymore LIES she believes!!!

    • Pick6

      Contraceptives do not cause abortions. Aren’t you embarrassed that you haven’t, after all this time, checked with medical experts to understand how contraceptives work instead believing RWNJs nonsense?

    • David

      You do not know what you are talking about. It takes about 72 hours for a sperm to fertilize an egg. It does not happen instantly. Contraceptives prevent this from ever happening. The only thing that causes abortion is RU 486.

      • mikeflannigan

        The only thing that Hobby Lobby objected to was being forced to provide morning after pills. But you looked passed the corrupt MSM and knew that, right?

        • Pick6

          Wow. Not embarrassed by posting stupid, are you?

          • mikeflannigan

            Projection, typical of the leftist disease of total and willful ignorance. The only thing Hobby Lobby objected to were 4 forms of morning after birth control. Maybe you should change the channel and stop listening to Andria Mitchell trumpet DNC propaganda, Einstein.

          • Pick6

            Damn, you just keep digging long after we can’t see you in that hole anymore.

    • pete14789

      where u get your medical degree dr knit

    • starivapollo

      Wow, the only thing that makes someones horribly wrong statements even more hilarious is when they are so condescending about it. Please actually look up how contraceptives work so you at least know why your post is so hilarious. Oh, and please use said contraceptive and do not reproduce, the world has enough stupid in it.

      • Pick6

        Nice. ‘-)

      • knitqueen49

        Hey if you choose to believe all the garbage being spouted off go right ahead!!! I will stick to the real facts!!!!

        • L-dan

          Which real facts? The lies about contraceptives causing abortion? I’m sure you have some valid sources for that sort of information as opposed to the many scientific studies as well as the actual definition of abortion, that make it clear that no contraceptive causes abortions. None.

          The waiting three years? (hired in 2010, suit in 2012…at best she took a year to file after the birth of her kid)

          Any more?

        • Pick6

          Huh? You don’t even know the “facts” about what contraceptives are or what they do. You’re using the net right now. How about you go to one of the websites where these things are explained intelligently – like WebMD or Mayo Clinic’s site, or any of hundreds of other sites. Oh, wait . . . what am I saying . . . why find the truth when you far prefer willfully ignorant outrage.

        • starivapollo

          It’s called science, and not liking the facts does not mean they are not correct nor that you can just make up ones that fit better into your opinion. So you go ahead and keep eating up the garbage Faux “News” and the like keep feeding you, I will stick to reality.

        • fiona64

          You let us know when you’ve posted any acts, okay, sweetie? Because so far I’ve seen a whole lot of screaming and no facts whatsoever.

    • s johnson

      Contraception prevents abortions; access to contraception lowers abortion rates….simple solution. You cannot abort something that isn’t there.

    • StealthGaytheist

      Screaming doesn’t make BS true.

  • liz

    Thanks for the heads up. I was planning a visit to Hobby Lobby soon but plans have now changed. They won’t be getting my business.

    • Dr. Evil

      That’s ok. I plan on buying double.

  • David

    Pregnant employees are a super headache. If it were not against the law I would fire any one of my female employees for getting pregnant. you have to give them time off to go to the doctor. You are required by law to accomidate their physical needs. In another words productivity takes a hit. Single mothers are the worst. Always taking time off to deal with the kids.

    • liz

      Shame on you, David!!!

    • Betty

      I am glad I don’t work for a pig like you!

      • mikeflannigan

        The guy you worked for went out of business.

      • David

        I am not a pig. My employees like me because I pay them well and treat them well. I provide affordable health insurance to 12 of 14 employees. I do not provide health insurance to my 2 minimum wage workers. I have 5 women that work for me. I also have 2 gays. I got lucky. All the women who work for me now are over 45 so I do not have to worry about any of them needing maternity leave.

        • Betty

          What if a woman of childbearing age came to you interested in employment? Would you discriminate against her?

          • David

            I would not discriminate because that is against the law and if you are caught the fines are huge. There are ways of screening out women who are of child bearing age. You just hire another minority like a black or hispanic to cover it. I could probably get away with it because my employees are diverse. I tend to hire older employees anyway. 10 of my employees are over 35. I only have 2 of them under 30.

    • starivapollo

      And people with that kind of attitude are exactly why there has to be laws protecting pregnant women. I wonder if you would have liked someone having that kind of attitude towards your mother (who I’m sure is so proud of your attitude) while she was pregnant with you.

      • David

        When my mother was pregnant with me she stayed home and my father went out and worked and supported the family. We do not have men like that today.

        • starivapollo

          That is true, back in the day that was an option, but times have changed and it has become more and more difficult for a family to survive off of one income. I was lucky enough to be able to afford for my wife to take off of work before and since she had our daughter, but that is not always an achievable goal for some. Aside from families that cant afford to have one parent not working, there are also families where there is only one to work. So what about a mother who has no help? Maybe the dad was just a deadbeat, or maybe he passed away, either way there is no one else. Times have changed.

    • s johnson

      Thus, the requirement of anti-discrimination laws.

    • StealthGaytheist

      Thank you for proving my earlier point.

  • sail375

    The Green Family may not believe in abortion, which is fine. That is their right. ,

    Obamacare is a massive intrusion by government into peoples’ lives and into businesses. Like programs before it, Obamacare is an outright dictatorial act by government to force people and businesses to do something they do not have to do.

    As much as people criticize and critique, the Hobby Lobby case is really fairly easy to understand. The Green Family is the small business corporation. It is not a public corporation. There is a huge difference that the media has failed to explain to the general public.

    If anything, the government has intruded into the Green’s business and dictated what it will do. But, in the final analysis, the Green Family is the employer and business owner. It is their decision to make concerning anything about their business or employees. The Greens made a decision about their business on a rather narrow situation consistent with their beliefs and their business.

    This pregnant woman is of no value to the employer while at home. She had to be replaced. It happens all the time to injured and sick employees. The media is just sensationalizing this case to earn profits for its owners and shareholders.

    The country has forgotten that people have no right to a job. Jobs are created and offered by entrepreneurs. Jobs are privileges that are earned. The employer can hire and fire at will. The purpose of employment is to generate profit. Employment is not a social welfare program.

    The entire Hobby Lobby thing and Obamacare are about trying to force an employer to do something that in the end the employer can take away at will. Hobby Lobby could just as simply have closed its doors and fired all its employees. Instead, it went to court and attempted to carve out one small element in Obamacare that offended the owners of the business.

    This is not the first time the federal government has gone too far with intrusion into businesses. They try all the time. The more dictatorial the government, the more they intrude into private businesses. When that happens, some businesses move out of the country. Others just close up. Some cut back. This time around, it has been going on since 2007. Liberals took over both houses of Congress in 2006.

    Real Life Example: The IRS and the SEC tried a massive intrusion and over-regulation in the financial profession in 2007 and 2008 when I owned a financial services business. It was not Obamacare, but just as big and bad.

    After reading and learning the new crap the government was trying to force on our professions, the owner and sole shareholder of my corporation, meaning me, made the conscious decision to say the hell with it, closed the doors, sell the assets, and retire. My employees lost their jobs because of what the government did that threatened the existence of my business.

    The thing that government cannot do is force an entrepreneur to invest in, create, expand, or remain in business. The general population has not been able to grasp that simple fact of life, either. It is not rocket science.

    The liberals in charge of the federal government have yet to understand that they must work with businesses, not against them. That failure of the liberal government to understand these simple facts of life has caused 20 million Americans to become unemployed and underemployed in this country since 2008. Obamacare threatens the jobs and lives of another 150 million people in the next few years.

    Some day, hopefully soon, the American population will come to understand that the government it voted into office is the real problem in America and they will change the government. Once done, the cycle of economics and finance will change. It always does. If the business climate in America is good, then the country is good. If not, America has what we have now. This country is a free market based economy.

    But, for now, we have what we elected in this country. We the People. By the People. For the People. That is what America is all about.

    Most people have no idea what really happens in the world of business and employment. Yes, of course, it is all about money. It is called profit, which is the business owner’s compensation, or pay check. Why else would anyone invest in, create, expand and remain in business if there was no compensation for that?

    Who in America would go to work for an employer without compensation?

    Why would you, the American people, ask entrepreneurs to invest in, create, expand and continue in business if there was no profit?

    • Pick6

      Blech.

    • pete14789

      you lost me after the 2nd sentence

      • Pick6

        That’s when I checked out, too. ‘-)

    • pete14789

      comments should never be longer than the story hahahahahhaha

    • s johnson

      America is not a free market economy. Our economy has rules and regulations that make it work efficiently. Business is not free to run rampant against those that make that business successful….employees who are also its customers. Without those employees you wouldn’t have an economy. Laws like the ACA do indeed force business to act in the public good; it is not the only program that does this through Federal and State rules. Left to its own devices, you would have one sorry world to live in if Business made the rules and you were the one forced to follow those rules without the check/balance, at times imperfect, of the government.

      • johncopeland

        Well said and I agree.

  • Heinz Richter

    My grandfather always told us that you can’t trust people that wear religion on their sleeves. Obviously that includes owners of large companies. My grandfather was a wise man.

    • mikeflannigan

      He should have told you to beware of Goebbels with a pen in his hand.

      • Pick6

        arglebargle

      • Heinz Richter

        When I was growing up, Göbbels was long dead and no issue at all.

  • elaine williams

    Great, so now they have fed the haters. But do we know the truth? Hobby Lobby has respected her privacy, and not commented. I believe they are forbidden by law to comment.
    So she worked at HL for 5 months, as a part time cashier. She was not protected by FMLA, because an employee has to have worked 12 months prior to the leave, so no, by the law Clinton enacted, her job was not protected.
    Was a job available when she returned? Even under FMLA, when the employee returns, they are guaranteed a job, not the one they left.That protect the business. Imagine have no supervisor making your schedule for 4 months. No one ordering stock,no one receiving it in.
    Some positions are only protected for 30 days.
    But, as a part time cashier, what is available to her? What hours can she work?
    Again, all we got was her side of the story.
    What if she said she was only available to work m-f from 9am to 3 pm, and HL did not have a shift that fit?
    BTW, where the father(s) of all her children?
    Oh, and I am glad to see she is in school, getting a degree.
    Imagine if she had done that first, before having kids. I say that as another who had my kids, raised them, got them through school before I went back to school. I am thankful that I found a good man to be my husband, and father to my kids.
    Yeah, a woman can do it alone, but it is so hard. Why make like harder than it needs to be?
    If he can’t or won’t support you and the kids financially, physically, and emotionally, stay away.

    • s johnson

      Hobby Lobby’s side of the story….She didn’t work long enough for FMLA and HL has no legal obligation to rehire her. She could sue until the cows come home, but HL has no obligation to her employment. However, HL insists that it does the “Christian” dance because they are so Christian and being a person in the form of a business they insist that they have the right to be Christian in all things…oops…only when the Christian thing doesn’t interfere with the company/person bottom line.

  • davefel

    I hope competing companies in this industry are paying attention. Hobby Lobby is being boycotted, good time to make a move. The hypocrisy exposed here is news worthy. Religion and corporations…yikes…big government is not the terror. The terror is big corporation run by big idiot who can impose their beliefs on it slaves, strike that, employees, sure let’s call them employees.

  • Kirk Wilson

    They are a piece of sh#####T they are a joke it is time to boycott them nation wide

    • Dirty Harry

      I say ‘hang ‘em high’ but not over this article. Give me a story that has some proof to it beside someone’s word.

  • JCNow

    Yup, as soon as the itty bitty cute little fetus is born, it’s now a free-loader and deserves to die in the minds of the so-called christians. Jesus would be so proud.

    • elaine williams

      Why isn’t the cute baby the responsibility of the man and woman who donated chromosomes to create him, or her?
      Why is it always the government, or in this case, a part time employer of less than half a year more responsible than the parents?
      I do hope you get to know Jesus. He is awesome. As our creator, He made male and female, and marriage, a family unit that cared for the children that sprang from their loins. No where did Jesus say that the government was supposed to raise, feed, clothe, teach our kids. There’s a lot of advice about fathers and mothers teaching kids, though.

      • Guest

        You’re just proving JC’s point. You assert that the child isn’t the government’s problem after it is born, but yet it is somehow the government’s right and responsibility to “protect” the child while it’s in the womb. It’s not wonder why conservatives are constantly called out for their inconsistency when it comes to their so-called “pro-life” stance.

  • pete14789

    as Christians abortion the murdering of unborn babies should be top priority…birth control prevents abortions…soo why don’t right wing Christians support free birth control? it don’t make sense.

    • Bryan Anderson

      Free birth control? How does this magic happen?

      Or do you mean, birth control paid for by someone else?

      • Pick6

        Not “free” birth control. The women pay their insurance premiums. It’s a matter of coverage.

        • Bryan Anderson

          Oh, so we agree! Christians do believe in the free market, in which an insurance company is free to offer policies which cover birth control. Most don’t choose to do this though, as it either leads to offering only cheap birth control, discriminating on gender, or loading the entire cost of costly forms of birth control into premiums, hoping you only consume the cheaper ones.

          So, “prepaid” would be a more accurate term for it. Who is oppossed to giving insurance companies the right to cover birth control?

      • s johnson

        Where do you get free birth control? Benefit premiums are paid with real money.

  • Christina

    This should be illegal. making employees sign a form ,any form as a condition of employment should be considered coercion. companies that do this should be heavily fined.

    • Dirty Harry

      Then can fire you if you live in a ‘Right to Work’ state. Always thought that was funny name for it. Because it actually means you right not to work.

      • Christina

        I’m making sure to vote the Christian Taliban OUT! every chance I get! they are morons.

        • Pick6

          I’m with you. I shudder to think about the harm that will come to our nation if even one more christofascistbagger gets in to a position of making laws. This midterm is vital. We’ve all got to do our part to get out the vote to defeat the GOTP agenda.

    • Bryan Anderson

      There are so many things wrong with your logic… Who’s forcing them to take the job? Do you believe in any employment contracts? Should employers likewise be free from conditions on offering employment? Do you really believe there is a “right to have a job”? If no terms can be put on the job, it’s hardly a job, but changes to, “right to have someone else give you money.”

      • Christina

        Taking away someones right to sue if the company they work for they abuses laws is not something you would consider wrong ? I think your logic is skewed.

        • Christina

          In this case its coercion.

          • Bryan Anderson

            “Coercion: the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.”

            Who forced or threatened her to accept employment with Hobby Lobby along with its terms?

        • Christina

          This particular company is hypocritical anyway their retirement plans own contraceptive companies as stock. their lawsuit was only a way to push the religious values of the companies owners onto their female employees. Totally discrimination under federal law. glad I don’t buy anything they sell. Never will either.

        • Bryan Anderson

          There’s your confusion. Nobody was taking her rights. She was choosing to give them up, along with her right to leisure during working hours, and a list of other terms set on her employment status, and in exchange the company was giving up its right to a certain amount of money. That’s how voluntary exchange works.

      • Christina

        Reasonable terms. Not ones that violate a persons individual right to freedom of religion and recourse in court for violations of federal or state employment laws .

        • Bryan Anderson

          None of those are at issue in this incident.
          By the way, no contract can permit someone to break the law.
          Otherwise, laws like the minimum wage would have no meaning as employers would simply have new employees sign an acknowledgement that the wage was unlawful while waiving the right to sue.

  • HomeSweet12

    Well, take a long look America this is what is in our future.

    These Far Right Religious Corporations dictating when and if you can have children.

    I would laugh if it were not so sad. All of the Republican Base should take a very long look at what is coming down the pipe with this Hobby Lobby Ruling and all of this right to work mess coming from Corporations and the Republican Party. It is all in their favor as usual.

    The American and World workers had better wake up and run not walk to the nearest Union Office and sign up or very soon you will be wishing you had.

    Fact is Corporations and Companies need workers. Can you see your boss or the CEO of GE with sweat running down their brow doing the hard work that you do? No fact is they will not do it, because they think it is beneath them.

    The worker has the power and it is time they wake up to it or suffer the consequences.

    • mikeflannigan

      Oh look. A far left cultist claiming that Hobby Lobby is stopping people from having children. These people don’t know whether to defecate or wind their watch.

      • natebig

        Where is your brain, mikeflannigan?

  • pete14789

    true but if they were such Christian then…………….what would jesus do

    • mikeflannigan

      He would horse whip liberals for being fascist smear merchants and character assassins when they don’t get to force someone to violate their religious beliefs for freebees. Despicable children.

  • pete14789

    if I was a Christian and someone told me I can prevent 60,000 abortions a year by giving out free birth control I say …….. IM IN

    • mikeflannigan

      Hobby Lobby is not denying birth control. You’re level of ignorance is an inexcusable abdication of your civic duty as a citizen of the US, and if you keep it up we’re going to strip you of your citizenship rights and have you exiled.

      • pete14789

        u miss my point im saying if I believed abortion was murder I do anything possible to make sure there are less so I would give free birth control to anyone..learn to read instead of just insulting people

        • Pick6

          Um . . . seems like this one misses every point, not just yours. ‘-)

      • Pick6

        How many times are you going to post that lie?

      • johncopeland

        I see you have the “god” complex (we’re going to strip you”! Pete said nothing about HL giving our free birth control.

        • PGMGN

          Perhaps Pete didn’t reference Hobby Lobby, but he does seem to be under the delusion that so called birth control never acts as an abortifacient. Sorry, but preventing implantation of an entity that has completely different DNA than the mother, is inhibiting the natural progression of life. That’s aborting life. That’s abortion.

          Kind of like we don’t act dumb when asking what comes before the number 2. Yes, the answer is 1. But the answer can also be .1 or .0001. Anything greater than zero. Also, so-called birth control is not 100% effective and that’s another contributing factor to abortion. Failed birth control. So the more folks think they are safe from consequences, the more they indulge in that which puts them in a position to make a baby.

          So strip away and you’ll only be stripping your kids of reality in favor of some fabricated Hell zone. One where they may likely be taught to off you when you become a burden.

      • natebig

        Yes, they ARE denying to pay for certain forms of birth control. Later, troll.

        • PGMGN

          Birth control that also controls birth by preventing the implantation of a tiny life. What is so hard to understand here?

          • mikeflannigan

            It’s not a matter of understanding with them. It’s a matter of morals and disdain for a truth that would derail their agenda. It’s why they love Obama. He’s a serial liar.

          • Terri Corley

            Wrong wrong wrong. Fail fail fail. Said birth control inhibits fertilization. Therefore, no implantation can occur. Because the birth control does not allow a sperm and an egg to merge.

          • PGMGN

            Read the Princeton study, Terri. Read it all.

            http://ec.princeton.edu/questions/ecabt.html

            The study declares boldly that ‘Emergency Birth Control’ doesn’t cause abortion, but then explains that the way it works depends on where a woman is in her cycle. Then it openly admits that certain birth control works by preventing implantation. You’re being lied to, Terri. So don’t get angry. Read, read for details and motives and hidden agendas. There is no validity in believing Hobby Lobby has some motive to keep women from birth control when they already provide 16 other forms on their current insurance.

            Those forms that they reject do in fact prevent implantation. It even says so on the labels of said drugs/devices.

          • ansuz

            Those labels are FDA labels, and they (in many cases) have not been updated with new information.
            Plan B does not, in fact, create a noticeable increase in the loss of fertilized eggs relative to not using contraception.

            Source: I was a test patient in a pharmacist certification exam. Six different examiners (fully trained pharmacists, not people taking the exam) discussed the mechanisms of Plan B with me, and noted that updated information sheets have not yet been approved.

          • PGMGN

            Read this, Ansuz:

            http://ec.princeton.edu/questions/ecabt.html

            That said, how is it you’re a test patient when you’re contemplating cutting off your breasts? I hope you are not experimenting with getting pregnant and then killing children as a means of self discovery. God, I hope not. If so, there one very chief reason for wanting to deny the abortifacient aspects of so-called birth control.

            People don’t want to acknowledge the reality of what they are doing because it is inhuman and ugly. Why folks do not see the desperation of justification behind those wishing to sell a product and harvest women like so many cows is beyond me.

          • ansuz

            Old information. (seriously. Why would I be claiming otherwise? I give less of a fuck about human zygotes being killed than I do about calamari. Though, to be fair, I give a few fucks about octopi.)

            And you can put your mind at ease. This is what I was doing:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_patient

            It pays well.

          • PGMGN

            Junk science that farms women like cows pays well, too. You must really hate being female. But hey, if that’s what you’re into, no wonder you’re confused and depressed. But that is you choosing the road to depression and hopelessness, ansuz. Own it.

            One cannot live in conflict with reality and not run into the wall at some point. mooooooooooo on.

          • ansuz

            Clearly you did not read the link. I was being paid to act, so that the examiners could test how well the test-takers could interact with and explain things to patients.

          • PGMGN

            Thank goodness it was only acting. And no, I have no desire to read links associated with Plan B or anything else associated with the back door abuse of women.

          • ansuz

            The link was explaining the concept of a ‘standardized patient’. It is a person who has been trained to act as a walking test paper, with the same lines and instructions as hundreds of other individuals across a country (to ensure fairness in exam conditions). Candidates trying to gain certifications must demonstrate their ability to interact with patients, correctly diagnose them, and convey information to them while being observed and graded by exam adjudicators.
            It is a formal exam situation (same idea as the bar exam for law), in which candidates (aspiring chiropractors, pharmacists, social workers, what have you) have paid to take a test that they are required to pass in order to be certified to practice in their fields.
            I have been paid to portray a young woman seeking Plan B from a pharmacist, a woman who visited a chiropractor who did not know that she had multiple sclerosis, a person with a torn shoulder ligament, and a bipolar teen.

          • dudebro

            I presented him with numerous citations, but he keeps brandishing that princeton page as if it is the only word on the subject.

            Laughable.

          • ansuz

            I’m about getting to the end of the energy I have for this particular issue, but yep.

          • ansuz

            Apparently ‘standardized patient’ is a difficult concept.

            Or else I didn’t explain it well. :/

          • dudebro

            Difficult concept. Gotta have an iq of at least 70 to understand it.

          • Terri Corley

            It is one study. I am much wiser than that. I know the truth. Not to mention, I am a woman. You have only read what sides with your beliefs.

          • Terri Corley

            I know the truth. Nothing, nothing, nothing is 100% effective. Not even abstinence bc rape.
            You are choosing to take a blind eye to the entirety of the article. You do well at that

          • PGMGN

            If you know the truth then don’t go around refuting what I said by denying that certain birth control prevents implantation. You said that, Terri. And you’re right that there is rape, but that doesn’t negate the reality that certain forms of birth control cause the death of an unborn child. And that was my point.

          • Terri Corley

            Interesting that they are not called abortifacients, as you would insist. I was not disputing their efficacy or fail rate. You want to change what they are. You cannot. They are birth control not abortifacients

          • PGMGN

            If all you can do is backtrack off the reality that these drugs/devices impede the implantation of a developing life – which is in itself the abortion of a process begun – and wrap your mind around modern speak, that is up to you, Terri.

            Killing a child is killing a child, even if that child is at the stage where it is seeking the nutrition that only it’s mother can give. What a shame that women have been taught to forget or negate their own children.

            That said, an abortifacient indicates that which induces abortion. One could abort a mission to the moon before the rocket gets off the ground. Guess what, Terri? That would be an aborted mission.

            You could argue, but it didn’t get off the ground! Well, no it didn’t, but the mission (in this case, the child) is still aborted. I don’t know whether you are well intended, prideful, obtuse, or what? But your reasoning skills leave much to be desired.

            If you don’t care about a developing child, just have the courage to say so and own it. Good grief.

          • Terri Corley

            No, I’m quite en pointe.
            It is not a child
            Thank you for your generous compliment regarding my reasoning skills. I considered the source.
            Have a good day, sir

          • PGMGN

            Sorry, Terri, no men here (unless you’re male). That’s why I cannot understand ‘women’ who cannot even defend what they themselves write, let alone what they advocate doing.

            If you’re male, however, I might understand your push to dehumanize life at its most vulnerable.

            You’re ‘en pointe’ for avoiding reality, logic, and an argument you set up and lost. Re-read what you wrote.

        • mikeflannigan

          Oh, so the other forms don’t work? Hobby Lobby is NOT denying birth control. They cannot stop a woman from using the forms they don’t cover, or the 16 others they pay for. The idea that hobby Lobby is denying birth control is a typical blatant left-wing LIE. And why do they lie? Because beneath it all is an attempt to attack and subjugate Christianity with the lawless use of government power. It’s a proactive assault, not an unfortunate conflict. Now make me a cake or I’m calling the authorities and having you committed to a reeducation camp. Now, scream “troll’ and go hide under the bed.

          • Terri Corley

            You do realize that health insurance is federally mandated, don’t you? You also realize that an employer has no right to tell an employee how they can spend said health insurance, don’t you? So, again, you are incorrect. They ARE denying access to birth control. Not to mention, an employee earns wages and in those earned wages, they earned health insurance coverage. Is that something else you know nothing about?

  • Mabel

    Arbitration is unfair because the arbitrators are almost always chosen by the company. They are biased toward the corporation. Mandatory arbitration needs to be shut down. And everyone, please read any documents in their entirety before you sign anything. Make them wait while you do. If you don’t understand what it says, ask if you can take it with you. If they say no, WALK.

    These evangelicals aren’t pro-life; they’re pro-birth. They don’t give two f***s about what happens after the baby is born. This isn’t about God, either. It’s about manipulation, domination, and control.

    • johncopeland

      Very well said and I agree. I would not give one cent to buy anything from China at Hobby Lobby. If Hobby Lobby is such a great “American” corporation why do they not sell “Made In America”!

  • mambocat

    It’s all about getting the fetus developed and born, no concern for the child once it’s outside the womb. One also wonders what the outcome would have been had she been white.

    • OriginalRankinRedneck

      One also wonders whether or not this story would even have been written if she was white. Being black makes you “magic” … you can scream racism whenever something doesn’t go your way. And the other party is automatically put on the defensive trying to prove a negative. VERY CONVENIENT!

    • PGMGN

      No concern for the child once it’s outside the womb? Pathetic and false. Christian charities have done nothing in this country but build schools, hospitals, and aid the poor.

      I guess one could say your focus is on weeding out the crop, that is killing children. But we won’t call it that because that sounds too accurate – whoops – I mean, it sounds mean. If the picture you post is indicative of your advanced age, that is all the more disgusting as it could be said in time that it’s “all about sustaining the life of the elderly, but what kind of a life do they really have” before pulling the plug.

  • avengeflipper

    I’m sure this isn’t a hit piece designed to get back at Hobby Lobby for winning their court case.

    • Bryan Anderson

      And I’m sure the readers in this comment section are intelligent enough to recognize it as such.

      • mikeflannigan

        You kidding? This was linked to the Huffington Post. An orgy of idiots.

    • Zorak

      Four years after the events and now it comes out? Yeah, hit piece. Had Hobby Lobby lost, this article would not have been written.

    • mikeflannigan

      We have a winner!

  • Zorak

    So let me get this right, Felicia signed some documents when she was hired but did not bother to ask what they were? Further, keep in mind that she was not forced to work for Hobby Lobby. If she asked what the documents were and the binding arbitration clause was there, she could have refused and got a job elsewhere. And even accepting a job does not mean you have to stick with it. Was that not one of the benefits of the Affordable Care act, to free people from being stuck with a job they do not like? If she did not like the requirements, benefits, pay, or any other aspect of the job, she could have quit and gotten another job.

    So stop being lazy. Felicia can say she did not read the documents when she was hired, but that is not an excuse. The truth is she did not care what those documents were up to the point she wanted to sue. If you do not like the bind arbitration clause, then don’t work for Hobby Lobby or other companies that use them. Don’t feel that you are entitled to a job.

    Anyone who does not like this decision, would you honestly do any different if you were the owner of a company. An employee for only 4.5 months needs to take 3 months off, would you really hold their job? Do you fill it with a temp then fire the temp when they come back? do you leave the position unfilled for that time? You have a business to run. I think many complainers would do the exact same thing as Hobby Lobby.

    • PGMGN

      How refreshing to have actual logic and a business head at play when dealing with a business scenario. Thank you, Zorak.

      For all those who go on about female empowerment, this blog treats women like they are ignorant, incapable of reading, taking responsibility when they sign something, and the list goes on.

      • mikeflannigan

        Precisely. If there is a war on women it’s being waged by the left and the assumption that they are stupid and can be fear mongered into voting democrat with lies. Same thing they do to blacks.

  • krew1

    Apparently no one has ever clued the Christian Tealiban in on how much scorn Jesus had for the hypocrites of the world.

    Not to mention those who hate the poor…children…sick…least among us.

    When an agnostic,non-denominationist such as myself feels perfectly comfortable laughing at your failure as a Christian,then you know you’ve pretty much bottomed out with your BS.

    Well played,Tealiban.

  • Charterholder

    Corporations are people my friend…Hobby Lobby just happens to be a dishonest and self righteous hypocrite.

  • BelligerentBruncher

    Where did all these trolls come from? Was this posted on another site or something?

    Usually I’m the lone troll here. I’ve gotta say, it’s nice having a break

    • expect_resistance

      You could take the evening off and go do something?

  • skiptherrien

    And whats the rest of the story?

  • NoCellPhones

    After reading this article, I think I’ll take my money elsewhere when I need craft supplies.
    The more I know about Hobby Lobby as a company, the less I like it.

    I’ve had personal experience with binding arbitration, and it’s not good for the consumer. Big arbitration firms almost never find for the little guy, no matter if the little guy is right, and you can’t see what their findings are because they aren’t made public. Secondly, the majority of Hobby Lobby products come from China where the country believes in ultra-low wages, abortion, and human slavery. If Hobby Lobby is so much against abortion and birth control, then why do they get their products from China, a country that has little respect for life?

    Finally, in a VERY recent dealing with my local Hobby Lobby, they refused to honor their written quote for framing and wanted to charge me fully twice the cost because their employee made a miscalculation. Rather than being gracious and working out an equitable deal, their evening manager was rude and condescending. I did ultimately pay the price I was quoted but only by being persistent and talking with the day manager.

  • mridenhour

    The Gospel according to them. Such a bunch of hypocrites on so many turns. Using child- and pseudo-slave labor in China to supply them with goods is just one. It’s truly frightening to see what the human mind can come to believe is right and good when they repeat it over and over. At least 70% of Christians are the antithesis of Jesus Christ’s teachings. Why does our SC have to bow to them? Oh, that’s right. They, too, are bought and paid for.

  • markymarvin

    Really hope that this is true so you don’t end up with a libel suit on your hands.

  • kmtominey44

    Hobby Lobby has raised its public face and now all the less than attractive or “christian” practices will be bubbling into the public domain. There are lots of other choices for craft materials that do not involve dealing with hypocrites. If they will cheat their employees for profit you can be sure that they will cheat their customers.

  • AxelHose

    I’m guessing that many of you did not get to the paragraph way down the page: “To be sure, Felicia Allen is only one among the thousands of employees who have worked for Hobby Lobby since the early 1970s, many of whom have likely worked for the company without issue. And, to be clear, it’s only her side of the story.”

    • Mo Reno

      I’m guessing you didn’t get to the part where Hobby Lobby refused to comment on the actions taken by their company, therefore only one side had the guts to go on record.

    • Bicycle Girl

      The article also clearly states that HL has been asked for their side of the story, but they’ve chosen not to share it….probably because their lawyers are busy drafting up a good enough lie for them to put on a press release.

    • Bridgett Cash

      Excuses Excuses ^^

  • iamadivergentshadowhunter

    I am a christian and hobby lobby is no christian company the are radical “christians” trying to push an agenda on other people I would never force my beliefs on others. First I would never fire someone for having a baby, what kind of christian company is this? secondly they think they have a right to tell people what they can and can’t do with their bodies. Im sick beyond belief. As a christian I know that you are supposed to love one another and not to judge, and thats exactly what hobby lobby doesn’t do. boycott hobby lobby

  • elaine stenzel

    boycott boycott boycott boycott boycott ..let hobby lobby know what we think of them.stop buying anything from them…go to Michaels or someother store..

    • expect_resistance

      I heard Michaels is owned by Bain Capital. ??? Or support local art supply stores. I get a lot of my supplies at thrift stores.

      • elaine stenzel

        thanks, I edited my reply

  • mikeflannigan

    Number two is either a lie, or born out of stupidity, but that’s always the question: Lying or stupid?

  • Bicycle Girl

    “Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor”.

    Guess HL must think they get an ‘exemption’ from one of the Ten Commandments as well as the ACA. NICE Christians, huh?

  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tweety Tweety Bird

    Hobby Lobby Christian ethics is becoming an oxymoron, or maybe not.

  • dudebro

    Has this thread been taken over by people from Salon or what? FFS

    • Mo Reno

      I don’t know. Define “taken over.”

      • dudebro

        The last time RHRC had this much action on a single thread was when the asshats from AVFM descended upon us. Thank god that thread was closed after a day or two.

        • Mo Reno

          Then, no. I’m just here to read the source material for an article I read on Salon, but I’m not interested in taking over anything.

          • dudebro

            I get all of the updates on my phone and when I got home I had to delete 300+ messages:P

          • Mo Reno

            OUCH

    • BelligerentBruncher

      It’s on linked on HuffPost
      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/29/hobby-lobby-allegedly-fir_n_5630684.html

      I just linked to a story that links here. How meta is that?

      • dudebro

        Oh joy.

  • david

    typical Xtians. pray for them on Sunday, stick it to them on Monday. fundy scun.

  • George

    Allegedly? C’mon, journalists. Give us some facts for a change. Why are you trying to damage Hobby Lobby with innuendo? Give us the facts; just the facts.

    • Mo Reno

      HL opted not to comment. They are witholding the other set of facts. Wonder why…

      • Bicycle Girl

        Their lawyers are busy cooking up a lie good enough to be put on a press release as we speak…..that’s why.

      • BelligerentBruncher

        Would you reply to RHRC extremists? I’d tell them to get lost.

        • Mo Reno

          Ah, so witholding the truth is just a strategem to be employed when you don’t agree with the politics of the questioner? I guess that’s just the more oblique version of “lying for Jesus.”

          • BelligerentBruncher

            If it was some legitimate news source, then I’d reply.

            Instead, it’s RHRC which is obviously dredging up this lady’s lawsuit from 2 years ago in an attempt to slander Hobby Lobby. The intent is obvious.

          • Mo Reno

            Slander is spoken, libel is written. As public figures, the Green Family/Hobby Lobby are not entitlted to sue anyone for either unless they can prove “malice.” You might want to do a little research on that matter. All I know is, the truth is the truth, and witholding it doesn’t exonerate or exculpate Hobby Lobby. I guess we’ll see what their cadre of lawyers has to say about it.

          • mikeflannigan

            Bingo.

        • dudebro

          u no how extreme i m

      • mikeflannigan

        Nothing to comment on. It’s a nonevent trumpeted by smear merchants so you’d think it’s important.

        • Mo Reno

          Yes, I often see companies refusing to answer questions for fear that their innocence might come out.

          /s

    • mikeflannigan

      They can’t tell the truth. The left would collapse if that were to happen.

  • BelligerentBruncher

    Let’s see

    1. Starts new job
    2. Shorty after finds out all of a sudden at four months that she’s pregnant (yeah, right – this woman had 3 previous gestations)
    3. Wants company to pay for maternity leave

    Yeah, she’s not trying to scam them or anything.

    • Bicycle Girl

      Perhaps, but on the same token, her employer LIED to her.

      • BelligerentBruncher

        Allegedly….according to her. But, she also doesn’t remember signing the contract that she signed, so I’d say her reliability isn’t exactly the greatest.

        • Bicycle Girl

          Again, because she doesn’t remember signing the contract (which she obviously must have done, otherwise, she would not have been working there), doesn’t mean her “Christian” employer with deeply held religious beliefs should be LYING to deny her unemployment benefits. Perhaps HL forgot about those pesky 10 commandments….one of which CLEARLY says “thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor’. Guess they must think they’re exempt from both human laws AND ‘divine’ ones as well.

          • mikeflannigan

            The only lie here is yours, and born out of the same bigotry that’s in the Obamacare provision.

          • Bicycle Girl

            What lie would that be Mike?

          • Mo Reno

            Careful, BG, he’s running out of script quite rapidly, which means you’re in for some angry rhetoric instead of an accurate answer.

          • Bicycle Girl

            I’m ready. Let him bring it on. I like getting angry little trolls all tripped up in their own tripe.

          • Bicycle Girl

            ***crickets chirping*****

          • appletart

            ***rabid dogs barking***

        • Mo Reno

          And you claimed that the woman tried to scam some paid maternity leave, when she didn’t, so I’d say your reliability isn’t exactly the greatest…

          • BelligerentBruncher

            Yep, you’re right, I was wrong. She’s just tried to sue them when she didn’t have a case.

          • Mo Reno

            Well, not everyone has a law degree, so it’s quite common for the layman to comment incorrectly on the merits of any given case.

      • mikeflannigan

        Lie.

    • Mo Reno

      No scam. She isn’t even eligible for protected leave under Federal Law, due to the short nature of her employment. An accurate reading of the story shows that at no point did she ask for paid maternity leave, only that she get her job back (protected leave.) What’s to “scam?” An unpaid leave? A return to work?

      • mikeflannigan

        She took the job knowing she was pregnant hoping for unemployment. That’s so obvious it’s flashing neon.

        • Mo Reno

          I am truly in awe of your clairvoyance, telepathy, and other magical powers.

          (Where is Romney’s other hand in your avatar photo? Looks like maybe it’s up your ass, working you like a puppet. Is THAT how he got the nickname “Mitt?” Fisting fetish?)

        • Dez

          No what’s flashing neon is your blatant racism.

    • mikeflannigan

      You’ve got it. No question about it. Now the only question I have is why so many stupid people can’t see this for what it is.

  • Kay

    Well we don’t know the whole story, only hers, but one fact remains. They tried to deny her unemployment benefits and whatever the facts the unemployment people found they were untrue because she won her unemployment benefits. So if even only that , how dishonest of them to try to lie to cheat her out of unemployment and they stand on Christian values as a company? lol

    • mikeflannigan

      What happened was that she was trying to cheat them out of unemployment benefits, genius.

  • crash2parties

    It’s crucial to remember throughout all this that “sincerely held religious beliefs” are just someone’s personal, idiosyncratic, irrational (ie unprovable) *opinion*.

    There are exclusions for religion in anti-discrimination laws, churches are allowed to handle lawbreakers “internally” rather than turning them over to law enforcement, there’s the exemption from taxation…even practical exemption from the very laws that are to prohibit them from directly telling their followers which presidential candidate to vote for (lest they risk their eternal souls).

    How did some such opinions get boosted to a status above all others, and indeed above the very laws of our nation that everyone else must follow? Are unregulated capitalism, organized religion and the American political system so intertwined by money and philosophy and ideals that there is no longer any chance of separating them again?

    • Bicycle Girl

      The slippery slope is turning into a landslide. Perhaps you didn’t hear that Satanists would like exemptions now too.

      http://theweek.com/speedreads/index/265471/speedreads-satanic-temple-seeks-hobby-lobby-style-exemption-from-anti-abortion-laws

      • mikeflannigan

        The decision was narrow and it said so. Stop regurgitating leftist propaganda. They lie and make a fool out of you.

        • Mo Reno

          You’re the one that’s a fool if you think that SCOTUS can enter a decision and just say “narrowly apply only this one part.”

          How many cases have cited the Hobby Lobby ruling already? 10 or more.

        • Bicycle Girl

          Because I posted a link to a story supporting my post, I’m ‘regurgitating leftist propaganda”?
          If that’s the case, then you repeating right wing catch phrases must make YOU are a liar and a fool as well.

    • Hoosier Native

      And we shall not mention how the Catholic Church used the provisions to hide/protect child molesters.

      • crash2parties

        There’s no need to conjugate “used” in the past tense. They are still hiding & protecting them and despite the Pope’s much-lauded conclave…not much has actually changed. Oh, and affected dioceses appear to still be moving money around as much as priests, to avoid payments to victims.
        There is absolutely no reason to think any of this has changed.

        • Hoosier Native

          Sorry, you are right. I did post the past tense and they are still at it. So the present tense is more accurate.

  • lenmay@sbcglobal.net

    I had something similar happen with one of my employees. Not on the job long and told me she would be leaving. She said that she “didn’t want to have her job back because she wanted to collect unemployment”. She had no vacation time built up. I didn’t terminate her. She quit. SHE WANTED TO GET UNEMPLOYMENT CHECKS UNTIL SHE DECIDED TO COME BACK TO WORK, IF EVER. She lost her case for unemployment, but she wan’t black.

    • geraldo1000

      What does the person’s ethnicity have to do with it?

  • geraldo1000

    What the article does not say is that in most cases companies choose the arbitrators. You cannot argue that the process is designed to give the employee a fair hearing.

  • Carlos Santiago

    That is unfortunate to be sure. Currently the nation aborts somewhere in the neighborhood of 300k children a year, and yes unfortunately some women would rather choose to risk their own lives to avoid carrying the child to term and putting the child up for adoption. Not a pretty picture. Peace

    • P. McCoy

      Hey Carlos, no child is ever aborted. But how about helping your fellow Latinos down South get their acts together and share the wealth and citizenships for the mass exodus of refugees?

  • Lewis

    I enjoyed this editorial. Many accusations, no proof, and opinion thinly veiled as news. Like NYT.

  • mikeflannigan

    She knew she was pregnant when she took the job and took it for the unemployment. Undeserved unemployment drives up the cost of unemployment insurance and cost the company money – money that they could use to hire and pay real employees. Thanks for the propaganda though. The left didn’t get to trample over the law and religious freedom for freebees so they resort to fascist smears and character assassination. Nothing knew.

  • Deanna Caldwell

    Well, then they would deserve whatever happens to them after that. Abortion should be a rarity and used in extreme cases only. Women know what causes pregnancy and if they are not prepared to accept one, should it arise, then they should take precaution not have one. . . up to and including crossing her legs and saying “no”. Learn to control yourself if you are not responsible enough to deal with the consequences of your actions. Abortion should never be used in place of birth control, self-respect and responsibility

    • P. McCoy

      How is it that you’re not talking about MEN’S resposibilities like keeping their Johnsons’ to themselves?

    • avoiceofreason

      That is a very callous response. If people know they don’t want children. Women should get their tubes tied and men should have their beans snipped. In a perfect world self-control would work, but this not a perfect world and nobody is perfect. My girlfriend and i both had it done in our early 20s with no regrets.

  • Doris C

    If she is a single mother there are so many options for her. Im sorry she lost her job doesnt seem fair but maybe birth control paid for by her would have been a better choice than unprotected sex.

    • Dez

      Where does it say she is a single mother? And why should we not expect a christian company that displays their Christianity for the world to see to act like it?

      • dudebro

        Doris had to slut-shame.

  • mikeflannigan

    Four months pregnant and she didn’t know? Hahahahaha!! Thanks anyway, doll face, but I’m not one of your morons. Hahahaha!!

    • Mo Reno

      You’re definitely your own moron.

  • humanoid51

    What would jesus have done? I think he’d throw the money changing Hobby Slobbies out of the temple!

    • Mo Reno

      Jesus wouldn’t be knocking boots with an unmarried woman, either. He left that to his Father.

      • PGMGN

        If you want to maintain credibility, please refrain from the grotesque. That was really uncalled for.

        • dudebro

          Oh please. Give us a break.

          • PGMGN

            The man hawking the dumbass agenda that *respects women’s reproductive rights* asks for a break. Other women might be taken in by your line, but it’s old as the hills and equates to getting everything for nothing, just like it always has. Can’t blame a man for trying though.

          • dudebro

            Only ASShats make ASSumptions, cupcake.

          • PGMGN

            Like I said, can’t blame a man for trying. They always do. You might want to check on your obsession with ‘ass’. Could be that’s why you’re such a proponent of birth control for women. Typical.

          • BelligerentBruncher

            “He” is a “she.” Like Cher.

            She just changed her name to “dudebro” to piss off the AVFM crowd.

          • dudebro

            Wrong:(

            I changed it because I was tired of ‘vulgarism’ and fiona has been using ‘dudebro’ a lot, and it made me laugh.

            My MO, if you will, when it cums to choosing nyms, is to take something stupid that has been said on a board, and use that. Usually it’s a typo or a spelling mistake.

          • BelligerentBruncher

            Well, you should just tell people that you changed it to piss people off.

            That’s WAY more extreme.

          • dudebro

            You got me there. Job well done.

          • PGMGN

            That explains a lot as in a lot more confused that I’d originally believed. Thanks for letting me know, Belligerent. A man wanting a woman to be free for nothing is one thing, but a woman wanting other women to be free for nothing, I just don’t understand.

          • ansuz

            What do you mean by ‘wanting [women] to be free for nothing’?

        • Mo Reno

          I’m not worried about my credibility on this topic because I’m not the one pitching the Immaculate Conception/Virgin birth nonsense. Unless you’re saying that Jesus WOULD knock boots with an unmarried woman. Is that what you’re saying? Because that is really uncalled for.

          • PGMGN

            No you’re not pitching the Immaculate Conception/Virgin Birth or anything else outside the realm of a your own limited capacity to understand creation. String Theory and the realities of the galaxy might blow your cottin-pickin’ mind. Golleee.

            So knock that around for a while. Realizing that you don’t know everything and never will is the beginning of wisdom. So you might want to begin the journey….

          • Mo Reno

            I see what you did there…
            Since you can’t refute or respond to what I wrote,you just imply that I cannot understand science, as though the Immaculate Conception and Virgin Birth were scientific phenomena and not just stories about magic space horn-dogs

            I’m really interested in learning from you about the “realities of the galaxy.” Tell me more, but first, you’re going to need to tell me about where I wrote that I knew everything, so that I can keep up with the aforementioned “realities of the galaxy.”

            You know what might “blow my cotton-picking mind?” An admission from you that minds don’t pick cotton, and that the term “cotton-picking-anything” is a racist holdover from the era of slavery and isn’t really appropriate in modern parlance.

            http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/cotton-picking.html

          • PGMGN

            And your logic is to talk filthy smack about that which you cannot understand or are unwilling to face. Not necessarily a Virgin birth, but the reality that the Creator of the Universe can do whatever He wills. And no that doesn’t mean knockin’ boots, Mo. (Do you down a beer when you say that or slam back a shot?) That means facilitating a Virgin Birth.

            Goodness knows, it would take a faculty far greater than you or I (Sorry, no need for proof as this is pretty observable.) to create an eye or a lung or the human brain or the reproductive system or create the universe. So you might want to check your filth at the door when referencing Whoever created all this. Even if you don’t want to call Him God.

            So in light of how you present yourself, your admonishment to refrain from that which is not proper to modern day parlance, you may want to attempt to set the example first. That said, if there is no God, there’s really no right or wrong so I don’t know what your issue with racism would be. It’s inconsistent, Mo.

          • Mo Reno

            So “magic stories” are where your understanding of science comes from. Good to know.

            I’m not really sure what “door” you’re referring to, only that your “pretty observable” comment is likely referring to the profoundly discredited scientific proposition known as “irreducible complexity.” Why does a super-powered space horn-dog need you to stick up for him, anyway? Is he out of lightning, flood water, and plagues?

            The likelihood of a creator-being that complex just appearing, and not evolving, is magical thinking. Try to look up and study the “infinite regress” and you’ll see what I mean: basically, universe-creating beings would be so complex that they don’t just pop out of “the Word.” You know, “In the beginning was the WORD,” and all that malarky. So, rest assured, I don’t fret over what some supposed infinite being might read about on the internet. I have real things to worry about, not an angry space horn-dog with tender feelings.

            Still, I am waiting to hear your lecture on the “realities of the galaxy.” I can’t bear the excitement.

            And your understanding of what constitutes racism also comes from a book where innocent first-born Egyptian males are selected for murder because of what a Pharoah did, now it’s celebrated as Passover. No racism there…just race-based infanticide. Neat!

            How consistent of you.

          • PGMGN

            You sound so much like a foxhole convert before the bombs drop it’s funny. All bluster and BS until the situation is one completely out of your control, much like life is despite the delusion you surround yourself with. And no, God doesn’t need me to do diddly, I want to defend His honor. I feel obliged considering I didn’t make me and, it’s apparent, you didn’t have anything to do with it either.

            That said, whether you believe in the God of the Bible or not, your arrogant dismissal of treating the concept of a Creator with any respect, even in theory, bespeaks a small mind with limited capacity to go beyond five piddly sense. Senses you didn’t even create and cannot fully explain even with all the science in the world. Again, something you can only discover, not create from nothing.

            So cloak yourself in the victim mentality of one visited with ad hominem attacks while dismissing your utter filth and outward baiting of others. Not very manly. Definitely not a straight shooter.

            Oh, the bleeding heart who defends the poor innocent Egyptian children when it was out of the mouth of Pharaoh that he was visited with such suffering. Be careful what you say, Mo. You could be Pharaoh by the spew you allow to flow so arrogantly from your mouth.

            You’e brave now with your internet speak and faceless bluster, but put you before the All Mighty and your boots would be knockin’ only there wouldn’t be any woman to soften the blow. Perhaps the Blessed Mother, but perhaps not. You’re been a real potty mouth.

            In other words, be careful what you ask for. You’ll likely get it.

          • Mo Reno

            Wow. That certainly is a lot of gibbering apologia. Is there a degree available for that? Like a Master’s of Ancient Fiction or something?

            Can you just get to the part where you tell me about the “realities of the galaxy?” That’s more my thing. The whole “worship my God or you’ll be sorry-” thing fell out of vogue when I was about 8 years old.

            Yeah, I don’t believe in your God, any more than you understand “irreducible complexity,” the “infinite regress” or the merits/drawbacks of either.

          • PGMGN

            There is no ‘my’ God, Mo, only God. That said, one dose of gibbering apologia deserves another. You’re just preaching your own Gospel of smack, piggybacking on another’s words to sound above it all by way of denigration. Be original at least.

            Good luck with that. And whether you ascribe to irreducable complexity or infinite regress, there is still the constant that one doesn’t get something from nothing. And if atheists would have you believe now that the ‘nothing’ is really something, guess what, they finally get it. Even if they prefer calling God nothing.

            Good luck on the Masters of Avoiding Common Logic.

          • Mo Reno

            There is no “my” God?

            Oh. My. God.

          • Postmaster23

            PGMGN….AMEN!

        • Mo Reno

          This has gotten way off-topic, so I’ll just wrap it up with a LOL in your direction as you place yourself as the arbiter of credibility.

          • PGMGN

            LOL is right, Mo. But if you don’t want to tangle again, please refrain from being a potty mouth about the Blessed Mother. I’m not talking smack about your family.

          • Mo Reno

            Or… I’ll rot in eternal torment for a finite offense, I know. God loves me and all that…

            Jeez, even the Biblical justice system is evidence that your God can’t even calculate appropriate punishment. He lacks subtlety and goes all in on “BURN HIM!!!11!!”

            But I’ll probably just take that old loophole and say some stuff about loving Jesus and he has to let me into heaven. After all, that’s all your omnipotent god wants, to be loved. Such depth for an omnipotent character!

            Your god’s got terrible lawyers if they are responsible for that huge loophole.

          • PGMGN

            That hole exists only in your mind, Mo. And make no mistake, you’ll get what you ask for. God is good that way. He’s a gentleman.

          • Mo Reno

            He’s no gentleman. Supposedly he knocked up Mary, didn’t marry her, and made poor old Joseph raise his bastard, who he then let get crucified. He sounds like a cad.

          • PGMGN

            There you go again, MO, proving the only hole is in your mind.

            You don’t sound like a cad. That’s one whole you’ve filled…. to overflowing.

          • Mo Reno

            Yes, yes, to you minds have holes and they pick cotton. With all of that piss-poor biblical writing squeezing the creativity out of your head, it’s no wonder you aren’t very adept at coming up with decent imagery.

          • PGMGN

            What happened to the LOL and this is way off track, Mo.

            Prayers for you. God Himself could paint you a beautiful picture of Truth, but with your mind deformed by so much filth you’d no longer have the capacity to understand it. Like lungs that cannot process air because they’re clogged with tar and can no longer function.

            Good luck with that.

          • Mo Reno

            Go ahead and pray. I’ll let you know if they get answered. If I wake up one day with a massive head wound and start believing in fairy tales, you’ll know your wish, I mean, prayers, came true.

          • ansuz

            *giggles*

  • Yam I Am

    Anyone would have to be NUTS to work for those people. This is not what Christ had in mind when he started Christianity. Hobby Slobby are hypocritical sleazzeebags masquerading as Children of God. More like Children of Satan.

  • Jeff Williams

    I am a Liberal Christian. In my 51 years I have learned that those who are most vocal about their “Christianity” are usually in reality, the least Christ-like.

    • parterre

      I’m so glad you are qualified to judge. I’m sure Christ passed that ability that directly to you and no one else.

      • Jeff Williams

        Just stating what I have experienced. You can tell the quality of the tree by the fruit it produces.

      • Mo Reno

        Jesus can’t judge anything. No legal education or licensure.

  • Dez

    I thought Hobby Lobby was a “pro-life” christian company. How does this line up with this belief because it sure looks like the opposite. Maybe the woman should have had an abortion so could keep her job and provide for her children. That seems like the only other solution.

    • Scooter Livingston

      She’s Black…they are penalizing her for bringing another Black person in the world.

      Think they’d penalize a White woman? Hardly…unless she was unmarried.

      • jiggajames

        that’s probably the most racist thing I’ve seen today..

  • Raymond

    If a fetus is considered a child, why can’t the fetus be considered a dependent child on a federal tax return?

  • rossbro

    Bunch of rotten bastards.

  • sbm

    She’s a single mother? On her 3rd pregnancy? I’m guessing there’s more to this…..

    • onoclea

      Where does it say she’s a single mother?

      • jiggajames

        no mention of the father would lead one to assume she is a single mother.

  • GuessWho

    Wow, look at the liberals still foaming at the mouth over Holly Lobby. Too bad none show the same concern over the 60,000+ diseased “unwanted, unplanned” children flooding through our southern border. GET A GRIP liberals, I know it’s hard watching it all crumble around you, but you got your “homosexual” marriage via judicial fiat and lies, so it’s give and take.

    • SeattleJeff

      Huh? You are so misled by Fox “News” it’s enough to make one’s head spin.

      • jiggajames

        You do know there are other ways to get news besides Fox News, right?

    • jiggajames

      whenever their policies fail they search for a new issue. Next week it will be a new one.

  • Peggy Albrecht Montaner

    Yep, NEVER going to shop there!

  • PetrusRomanus1

    First we get a problematic SCOTUS decision, authored by the five male Roman Catholics on the court. Now we get the fallout, which is fundamentally inconsistent with both Christian values and human decency.
    My neighbor ran into similar difficulties with HL, saw the handwriting on the wall, quietly left and found a better job at a competitor. That’s where we shop now, not at HL. Never again.

    • GuessWho

      Problematic SCOTUS ruling – why are liberals so concerned about CONTROLLING OTHERS? What kind of sicko’s are you people?

      • SeattleJeff

        Look in the mirror.

  • GuessWho

    Crafts are political. A chicken sandwich is political. Water is political, so is Air. I am so sick of the slime democrat liberals post day in, day out. I’ll never vote democrat ever again. I’m an independent I can tell you, reading these comments turn me off to anything liberal, anything democrat.

    • Howard Kirshenbaum

      Guess – – I think yours would be one vote we can do without. I have the feeling you were never a free thinking person anyway.

    • expect_resistance

      My crafts are political. The personal is political. This is why I believe in direct action. I am also pro-choice and an pro-gardening and living with nature. I base my crafting and art from this.

      What is your point?

  • Moxie

    The timing of Hobby Lobby’s sudden litigation of conscience made it seem less likely they were concerned with anti abortion drugs, and more concerned with unraveling Obama and “his” ACA. They have been paying tax dollars for years – indeed as we all have – which among other things goes to fund abortions and family planning clinics that promote abortion. So they can pay tax dollars for this, but not insurance premiums required by a liberal administration. Nope. Didn’t buy it then, and I don’t buy it now. As the article says, this is only her side of the story since they aren’t responding, but her side is quite plausible given their behavior over all. And now the Supreme Court has given them and other corporations the right to act as individuals based on a CEO or stockholder’s beliefs. Strap yourselves in because we’re in for a ride.

  • GuessWho

    Liberals SUCK. Democrats SUCK. They have TRULY DESTROYED our country and we are so happy to be watching it crumble around you – Obama is a F’ing DISASTER and we can’t wait until NOVEMBER – not too long now and Obama is gone, gone, go