Arizona Governor Signs Bill Authorizing Warrantless Surprise Inspections of Abortion Clinics


Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer signed a bill into law Tuesday that would allow state Department of Health Services officials to conduct warrantless surprise inspections on any of the nine clinics that provide abortion services in the state. Under the new law, officials will be allowed to inspect any clinic during business hours, even if there is no reasonable cause to believe the clinic is violating regulations. 

HB 2284, sponsored by Rep. Debbie Lesko (R-Peoria), repeals a section of Arizona law that requires a judge to approve any spot inspections of abortion clinics. The law did not apply to inspections of any other medical facilities. According to the Guttmacher Institute, Arizona joins ten other states that allow the warrantless surprise inspection of abortion clinics.

In the state house, the bill was approved with a 34-22 vote. The senate approved the legislation on a 17-13 vote along party lines, with supporters citing everything from protecting women’s health to religious opposition to abortion. The legislation could go into effect as early as next week. 

The legislation was backed by the conservative think tank the Center for Arizona Policy (CAP), which “promotes and defends the foundational values of life, marriage and family, and religious liberty.” Alessandra Soler, the executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Arizona, told The Arizona Republic that the Center for Arizona Policy has a history of promoting unconstitutional legislation that costs Arizona taxpayers money for the state to defend. “These are laws that were one after another an effort by CAP to impose their own religious and moral views on the women of Arizona,” said Soler.

A 1999 law passed in Arizona also approved the warrantless inspections of abortion clinics in the state, but this law was struck down by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in 2004. The judges ruled that the statute’s authorization of “warrantless, unbounded inspections of their offices” violated constitutional protections against unreasonable search and seizure.

If challenged, this would be among a series of cases in which anti-choice bills passed by the Arizona legislature have been challenged in the courts. Recently, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit blocked regulations on medication abortion, and another lawsuit has also been filed challenging those regulations. The Supreme Court refused to hear Arizona’s ban on abortion after 20 weeks’ gestation, which lower courts struck down previously.

In a statement, the governor’s spokesperson, Andrew Wilder, said that the legislation will “ensure that the Arizona Department of Health Services has the authority to appropriately protect the health and safety of all patients.”

Bryan Howard, president and CEO of Planned Parenthood Arizona, said in a statement that while Planned Parenthood supports laws that protect patient safety, this law “does nothing but open the door to provider and patient harassment. This is yet another law that is in search of a problem rather than a positive solution.”

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  • vitario2000

    The only people who would be against this law are those who intend on making money running an abortion clinic which would be filthy and put the lives of women at risk to make a buck. Kind of a legal back ally coat hanger abortion clinic. Just because abortions are provided they should get no exemption from health regulations other heath facilities must obey.

    • fiona64

      Wrong. This is NOT about women’s safety, health or anything else. It’s about creating barriers to access. Which an honest person would admit instead of pretending that abortion clinics are somehow exempt from regular inspections anyway. Constant “surprise inspections” disrupt clinic business … and you know that.

      • vitario2000

        All medical clinics, food places and other business where the helth of customers could be compromised if guidlines are not should followed shoud be subject to surpise inspections. To do inspection by appointment give the time to hide things from the inspectors. Have you ever heard of Gosnell? It is about the health of women and children, I would take an objective look at this issue before you could see that, you are obviously biased.

        • purrtriarchy

          Then you also support surprise inspections of dental offices right?

          • vitario2000

            Yes I do, anyplace where a person’s health can be affected.

          • purrtriarchy

            Then what are you doing about it? I hope you are harassing some dentists.

          • vitario2000

            I see you just stupid. Typical troll with no brains to understand past what you want.

          • purrtriarchy

            So you are full of shit and don’t actually care about patient safety at other facilities.

          • Ivy Mike

            Ah. No answer, right, fanatic?

            You people are disgusting. Why don’t you head over to Afghanistan…your way of thinking dominates there.

          • Ella Warnock

            I do so love all the pearl clutching about inspections. Of course I want safe, clean, and discrete abortion facilities for women. When I agree with forced birthers that these conditions are important, they then start screeching at me that women “killing their babies” should NOT expect to be safe and WHY should she expect safety when “It’s not exactly safe for the BABY, now is it !!!11eleventy11!!”

            So, no, they don’t give a flying fuck about women’s safety because they’re sure that women who abort should suffer as much as humanly possible, even unto death. I can’t believe anyone ever buys into the lie that they think any differently.

          • purrtriarchy

            I love how they say that abortions are extra dangerous and require special TRAP laws because ‘a fetus dies’ and apparently this makes abortion the most dangerous medical procedure on earth.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Yes. Because when you point out that abortion is 14 times safer than giving birth, what you typically get is ‘but it’s not safe for the baybeez’. *sigh*

          • Arekushieru

            Um, don’t they GET the fact that infant and fetal mortality rates are higher during pregnancy, labour and birth if the woman dies prior to or during either? WHY do they think that IS, if not, then?

            Finally, to you and purrtriarchy: Yeah, that’s just more evidence that their ‘concern’ for women’s lives is bullshit.

          • fiona64

            So, no answer then?

            Dental procedures are far more dangerous than abortions, statistically speaking.

          • goatini

            Except that on this reproductive justice website, YOU would be the troll.

        • Ivy Mike

          You and your ilk don’t give one steamy shit about “patient safety”. Why do you lie like that, in violation of your cherished “commandments”?

          Hypocrite. Liar.

        • fiona64

          Gosnell is what happens when people like YOU get your way. This site specifically has been reporting on Gosnell since 2010 and trying to get something done.

          YOU are the one who needs to take an objective look at the issue instead of posting absolute, unadulterated bullshit.

          Stop pretending you care about women’s health … you just want women to be forced to remain pregnant against their wills. And do you know what objective people call that?

          Slavery.

      • lady_black

        If inspections do disrupt business, they aren’t being managed adequately. While the other poster’s nonsense about dirty linens and instruments are exactly that, nonsense, all medical clinics should have administrators to ensure standards and deal with inspectors. Since administrators aren’t the same thing as care providers, business should go on as usual where the patients are concerned. It might even work to the benefit of pro-choice by showing that there is no problem here.

    • Refugee

      If you read the second paragraph of this article, this law only applies to abortion clinics. These clinics are not getting an exemption from laws that apply to all health facilities. This law imposes an additional regulation because they provide abortions.

      • L-dan

        Exactly. See how dental facilities or cosmetic surgery facilities would complain if they had to be ready to disrupt business at any time for an inspection.

        • lady_black

          Working in health care, inspections do not disrupt patient care. All facilities have administrative staff to deal with inspectors. That’s why they make the big bucks. They are trained to deal with state inspectors and are also responsible to make sure regulations are being followed at all times, so an inspection shouldn’t be a problem. Honestly, I wish that existing health department regulations and inspections hadn’t been neglected in the Gosnell case. If they had been, we wouldn’t have to listen to the nonsense of anti-choicers regarding Gosnell, because he wouldn’t have been in business.

          • L-dan

            Good to know. The (very small) analytical lab I worked for ages ago tended to go nuts every time there was an inspection. Not quite the same thing, but I figure everyone’s human and goes “ack, are my books in order!” a bit.

      • vitario2000

        If you really read ithe article you will see they are overturning a special exemption given to abortion clinics. No reason for them to be given the exemption. “HB 2284, sponsored by Rep. Debbie Lesko (R-Peoria), repeals a section of Arizona law that requires a judge to approve any spot inspections of abortion clinics. The law did not apply to inspections of any other medical facilities.”. So you see spot inspection were legal for any type of clinic but abortion, for those they had to get the judges approval. Now they have to be inspected like any other type of clinic.

        • colleen2

          The law did not apply to inspections of any other medical facilities.”.
          So you see spot inspection were legal for any type of clinic but
          abortion

          This is an error in your thinking. These two things do not necessarily follow. The fact that other facilities weren’t mentioned does not mean that warrant less inspections in private medical facilities anyplace else are common or legal.

          • vitario2000

            Not mentioned? I just posted what it said, and it does not name each one no but it covers all with “any other”. The only Arizona law preventing surprise spot inspection were for abortion clinics. That law is cited and state clearly in the article, the error is in you over thinking instead of reading what is clearly written, that is being to bias to make a determination upon facts. You know the removal of this special exemption is based on what was foud out in the Gosnell trial and the conditions found at other facilities across the nation they were no more than legalized back allys with coat hangers. Anyone who care about women should back regulations designed to protect the health of patients in any medical facility. Money and the bottom line has been traded for women’s lives. Quacks who can’t practice at local hospitals, dirty instruments, bedding and other means to cut corners on costs and time are killing and butchering women yet the cost of abortions is high…It’s all about the bottom line. Money

          • fiona64

            Wrong. A judge had to approve a surprise inspection. That doesn’t mean that the clinic got notice.

            Stop lying. You are posting a whole lot of bullshit … and at the end of the day, you are perfectly well aware of that.

          • vitario2000

            Only for abortion clinics, a surprise inspection could be done in any other type of clinic, This bill removes that special priviledge, you stop lieing and twisting this so people think it is something it is not.

          • purrtriarchy

            I just proved you wrong on that one, dumbass. Dental clinics are not inspected.

            Why am I not surprised that you ignored factual information.

          • fiona64

            Different day, new dumbfuck. Why don’t these people stay on LieSiteNews so that the adults can talk?

          • vitario2000

            That tactic, of claiming you did something you didn’t do to claim victory is lame and does not work. The article stated the facts and you continue to ignore them.

          • purrtriarchy

            The tactic of ignoring evidence that proves you wrong = fail.

            Dumbass.

          • purrtriarchy

            So you are also going by the nym of ‘chuter Ricky’ in a losing attempt to sock puppet because you are, as previously mentioned, incompetent at this, and proven wrong with factual info?

          • vitario2000

            I happens to be my name, Vitario2000 is an ld alias and account. My stands on issues do not leave me in a possition where I have to be ashamed and hide my identity..”purrtriarchy” what a noob.

          • purrtriarchy

            Nice try but no cigar.

          • Jennifer Starr

            And you used your other account because…..

          • Arekushieru

            People such as ourselves generally have to fear more about our identities being exposed than people like you do. But, further to that, if you’ll look to the left of my screen name, you will see a picture, a picture that happens to be… wait for it… wait for it… an ACTUAL PICTURE of me.

          • Arekushieru

            Again, there is nothing saying that surprise inspections were NOT performed prior to the removal of this ‘special exemption’. Judicial approval of warrants does NOT require that a clinic get notice. Kthx.

          • purrtriarchy

            Vitario is now pretending to be ‘Chuter Ricky’ in order to provide backup for himself.

          • fiona64

            That’s just funny.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Funny and kind of sad, considering both accounts are linked to the same facebook page. Did he think we wouldn’t notice?

          • purrtriarchy

            RHRC gets the dumbest trolls

          • colleen2

            Republicans aren’t generally too bright.

          • Arekushieru

            Again, read what I said about judicial officers and an officer of the court. Then go back and reread what Colleen said. Mmkay?

            The removal of this ‘special exemption’ puts the onus on the people who are the victims, of laws that created the abuses by ‘abortion’ providers such as Gosnell, to correct the situation rather than the ones who created it in the first place, the LAWMAKERS.

            Also, pregnancy, labour and delivery are FAR more costly than abortion. If money and the bottom line were the all-important factor that you CLAIM it is, there would be a lot more insufficiently trained medical practitioners entering the obstetrics field. Oops.

          • fiona64

            What he doesn’t get is that other facilities are still subject to spot inspections … they just didn’t have to get judicial approval first.

            He’s deliberately disingenuous at a minimum.

    • Lieutenant Nun

      Citations needed.

    • Ivy Mike

      Oh, for fuck’s sake, quit bullshitting.

      You people want to ban all abortion, for any reason, all the time. You don’t give one hot shit about clinic “safety”, or anything else. All this is just an excuse to close clinics you don’t like because you think it makes baby Jesus cry.

      Why are you people so dishonest? Why do you so easily lie about your true goals? And, how exactly do you justify your wanton disregard of one of your own so-called “Commandments”? ( That is, “Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness…)???

      Oh, Hell. Just fuck you.

      • vitario2000

        Just because I or anyone else wants to ban abortion, does not nullify the point, in fact you dwelling on abortion ban rather than medical safety for abortions shows that it is you in fact who are the problem. My point is no matter what you believe on abortion itself, it is legal and therefore a woman has the right and expectation that the clinics and medical staff are clean and properly trained to protect her life. You are intentionally mixing 2 issues as a smoke screen, is PP senting you kick backs for your comments, You put this on the religious issue, I do not bear false witness because I did not speak about abortion but about the protection of women who get them and that is the difference between us. The only clinics that close because of health restrictions are those who will not keep a clean and steril enviorment. If you want to aregue abortion rights views we can do it on another article one abort abortion bans, ok. Stick to the point is it fair to make laws allowing inspections of medical clinics at any time, Go Google Kermit Gosnell and read about the onditions women were subjected to, then tell me how you are for the health and safety of women.

        • Jennifer Starr

          We don’t need to google him. We’ve been reporting on him here since 2010.

        • Jennifer Starr

          The point of all these regulations that the states have been passing is not to make abortion safer. It’s to make it harder for clinics to stay open. You’re being disingenuous here.

          • vitario2000

            Sorry any time you make any business comply with regulations designed to protect the public it is going to be harder for that business to operate, however that is not reason to put the public at undue risk. Providers have a repsonsibility to those they serve beyond ending pregnancy. One of the chief reasons for legalization of abortion was the arguement that women had to go to untrained providers and it was unsafe. This is simply the same point, if your going to do it then make it as safe for the woman as possible. Now if you covered Gosnell and the other meat shops you should be on the side of regulation safeguards being harder to get around. It is the cost of doing business, we in the construction industry deal with that all the time, Companies complain but workers know who’s health and lives are on the line, so we have OSHA regs. No business should be exempt from public safety regulations.

          • purrtriarchy

            Then start campaigning to surprise inspect dental offices or stfu. Dentists have been known to rape patients

          • vitario2000

            You obviously think everyone is like you and they are campianing for their point no matter what else is involved. If I see and atricle giving Dental offices the unabridged right to treat patients without inspections from the medical boards and state then you bet I will comment on them also. Of all the arrogance to think I do not care about the helth of women, I have wife daughters, granddaughters and the male complex of savior to women as most decent men do. What I don’t have is a forced view by the liberal lobby that says it is politically incorrect to say anything bad about any issue we are for and men who do will be labeled as women haters. No I look at the issues and the facts. Will it limit access? Yes, will it improve health care to women and protect them Yes also. You see that no matter what the abortion is the big issue, I see a woman’s heath as the issue. Stop lieing and come right out and say there should be an abortion clinic in every neighborhood even if it will cost the lives of many women. Say what you mean, I do.

          • purrtriarchy

            http://www.newson6.com/story/21831732/dentists

            Dentist Offices Not Routinely Inspected, Oklahoma Official Says

            Start your change.org petition now, cupcake. or shut the fuck up

            Oh, and show us your petition, thanks.

          • Jennifer Starr

            The male complex of savior to women? Huh? Are you one of the weirdos who stands outside of clinics and harasses patients?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Reply to Ricky in moderation–there was a debate? And trust me, there’s nothing normal about your psychology.

          • fiona64

            the male complex of savior to women

            I don’t need your patronizing ass anywhere near me, or any woman I know.

            If you’re really worried about women dying start protesting *birth.* Abortion is 14 times safer than gestation and delivery. The US is #50 in maternal mortality (with countries like Bulgaria being better at keeping pregnant women alive, just to name one) and getting worse. So, start bitching about *pregnancy* if you’re really concerned about women’s lives.

            Otherwise sit down and STFU.

            No love, a woman who was almost killed by a pregnancy

          • fiona64

            Reply to Vitario’s sock puppet, Chuter Ricky, in moderation:

            I see you are uneducated in that you haven’t a clue about basic male psychological chararistics.

            Normal men do not think that women are too stupid to make their own medical decisions.

          • fiona64

            Reply to Chuter Ricky, in moderation, who asks:

            Prove where abortion has improved the health of a woman.

            Well, let’s see. The inquest proved that an abortion would have saved Savita Halapannavar’s life: http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/04/22/1900171/jury-savita-death-abortion-care/

            Even the surgeon general has stated that not once has having an abortion saved the life of even one woman.

            Put up a source or admit that you’re a goddamned liar. Why do I say that? Because the opposite is true.

            http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/10/19/abortion-mother-life-walsh/1644839/

            Quote: The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists issued a statement saying: “Abortions are necessary in a number of circumstances to save the life of a woman or to preserve her health. Unfortunately, pregnancy is not a risk-free life event.”

            You might want to stop reading LieSiteNews, sweetie. It’s bad for the brain.

          • Arekushieru

            You are aware that a judicial officer and an officer of the court are not *necessarily* the same thing, right?

            Also, just because someone has black friends doesn’t mean they can’t be racist.

            Finally, the psychology of being saviour to women, is just misogyny, that has been handed down by generations of white male patriarchy supporters such as yourself, in prettier packaging. Kthx.

          • Arekushieru

            Nope, I took a psychology course in high school. I got higher marks than some of the students that took the course, as well, and went on to BECOME psychologists and psychiatrists. I understand how the brain works, fairly well, and my own psychologist told me that.

            If you were talking about something else, however, you really need to give more details on the specifics, next time. Too bad, so sad.

          • Arekushieru

            Edit for the above reply: The above reply was also a comment to Chuter Ricky whose own is in moderation.

          • fiona64

            You do know that the physicians who perform abortions are OB/GYNs, right? Right?

            Well, now you do.

            Dumbass.

          • Arekushieru

            You DO realize that the state where Gosnell operated was the one with the highest number of abortion restrictions in the US, right? Well, now you know. So much for those ‘safeguards’. And so much for Pro-’Life’ politicians actually caring about the ‘safety’ of women’s lives. They ignored medical and Pro-Choice organizations repeated notifications of abuses at Gosnell’s facilities. Oops.

          • vitario2000

            You do realize that it is the pro-choice and PP that makes it hard for any local agency to fulfill the law in doing the inspections, They file suite for everything, any cry in the media that it is discrimination, and sound a lot like you guys. Even after women were dieing from the abortions recieved there. Stand up and take responsiblity for being the cause of Gosnell instead of blaming those who actually passed laws to try and prevent it, like this law you are now crying about. Are you ready to take responsibility for all women who get botched by so called physicians who can’t get on a hospital list. Standing against laws that make clinics comply with safety standards make you part of the problem and the real culprits in the war on women. Your not defending women, you are defending corporations that make billions every year by preying on women in need.

          • Arekushieru

            Nope, all the suits that PP files against discrimination are exactly that, suits against discrimination. Which is what we’ve been TRYING to tell you.

            AS WE HAVE ALSO TOLD YOU, this site has repeatedly reported on the abuses practiced at Gosnell’s clinic. This is a PRO-CHOICE site. The law enforcement agencies failed to investigate the claims even though they operated in the state with the highest number of abortion restrictions. That is a result of Pro-’LIFE’ lawmakers. It is similar to the days BEFORE Roe Vs Wade, where women took matters into their own hands due to the PRO-LIFE illegalization of abortion. Now that you have been shown who is REALLY responsible for women dying at the hands, and being the cause, of butchers like Gosnell, please do take the responsibility that you are trying to pass on to everyone else, then erroneously claiming that, instead, we are doing that very thing, ourselves.

            Forcing legislation onto the backs of WOMEN as a solution to a problem created by SOMEONE ELSE is NOT *taking responsibility*. SMDH.

            Have you not been reading articles that actually disagree with you? Physicians have been unable to get hospital admitting privileges for various reasons, most of them trivial. Such as hospitals being afraid that providing abortions will ‘damage’ their reputation. NOTHING there about how physicians can’t get on a hospital list because they simply don’t meet hospital ‘standards’. Oops.

            We are not standing against laws that make clinics comply with safety standards. Seriously, reading comprehension IS your friend. Just in case you still might not get it, I’ll make it as simple as possible so that even YOU *will* get it. Approval from an officer of the court is required to obtain a warrant before surprise spot inspections can be performed at restaurant, retail, etc… facilities. Approval from a judicial officer is required to obtain a warrant before surprise spot inspections can be performed at facilities that provide abortions. The ONLY difference? The level of approval that is required before a warrant can be obtained. There is NOTHING to suggest, in the legislation itself, that this is NOT the only difference between abortion and all other facilities. Therefore, I would like you to tell me how this improves health and safety at facilities that provide abortions and how this is in any way something more than just minor tweaks in the wording of the legislation. Whoops?

            Finally, YOU are defending corporations that make FAR more than billions every year (IF that is indeed the profit that abortion providers make, which I, ‘somehow’, doubt) by contributing to the FAR more lucrative pregnancy, labour and delivery and adoption trafficking (aka CPC) industries. Again, OOOOOPPPPSSS?

          • vitario2000

            http://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/AR_2007_vFinal.pdf http://www.ehow.com/about_4673189_government-spend-abortions-each-year.html http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_money_is_spent_on_abortions_each_year?#slide=1 Abortion is a very lucrative business.

            You blame pro-life groups for the abortion mill situations, you are so wrong, just on the baises that those groups want the clinics to be closed down for any reason even non compliance, your pro choice at any cost stance is what creates the mills, as you want less regularions and even less inspections of the clinics (this would interupt the business, your words).

            Where was the prochoice media during the Gosnell trial? If they cared so much for women, no NBC, MSN. CNN, ABC, CBS, rarely a peep out of any of them. You say this site cover it? How much? Were their daily articles, testimony? Link your articles from this site, Because I followed that trial and search the web daily, and I don’t remember you guys saying much.

            What are you doing to stop the other abortion “mills” around the nation, to protect women from these butchers? http://www.tilledsoil.org/abortion-mills-and-kermit-gosnell-what-is-the-real-problem/ http://www.lifenews.com/2013/05/17/planned-parenthood-applauded-gosnell-verdict-but-ignored-the-babies/ http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15415-gosnell-house-of-horrors-just-one-of-many-abortion-slaughterhouses http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/8/burke-allowing-more-kermit-gosnells/ Dancing around the facts, and blaming those who really care only proves you are brain washed by the multi million dollar abortion industry. The logic of blaming pro life for these clinics not being inspected does not make logicl sense, and here you ar pro choice fighting clinics regulations? Ironic.

          • purrtriarchy

            More money in birth and adoption 20k birth for an obgyn vs a 400$ abortion hmmm.

          • vitario2000

            Let me just copy paste my answer to goatini, “So losing a point, CHANGE THE SUBJECT…lol Keep you child away from the adoption pirates and murder it…sounds like awesome advice! Send that to PP they just might adopt it as the new motto. I can’t believe you actually went there.”

          • purrtriarchy

            Its called logic dumbass. There is more money in forcing every woman to give birth. Therefore, there should logically be huge anti choice sentiment from obgyns, in order to force women to give birth so they can walk away with thousands per c section vs 100 bucks per abortion.

          • vitario2000

            You are still to stupid to stick to the point. You are therefore a waste of human cell tissue. You want to debate if birth earns more money then abortion like the fool you are. There is not logic in that discussion when all I said is the clinics do not want to be regulated because to ensure the health of women patients it would take away from their bottom line. That is logic! Only a true dumbass whould think it was a debate of what cost more birth or abortion. Lets see your proberly under 35 years old and think you have seen enough in life to have all the answers, well your still crapping green kid. Grow up learn then get a real opinion. Oh and take some courses in math like logic! Done

          • purrtriarchy

            Prove, with citations, from non-biased sources, that abortion itself, alone, makes more money than birth.

          • vitario2000

            So stupid that you cannot read or comprehend what you have read huh?

          • purrtriarchy

            So you can’t prove it? That’s what I thought.

          • goatini

            You’re not an authority, much less any kind of unbiased authority. And the deliberate disinformation of the propaganda cesspools you attempted to catapult here are, likewise, not an authority.

          • Arekushieru

            Says the person who can’t read (or spell) his way out of a cereal bowl. Seriously, if a person can make MORE money in pregnancy, delivery and adoption than they can by providing abortions, then choosing to partake in the LESS lucrative position has to be about MORE than the bottom line. Put ANOTHER way, if someone was TRULY concerned ONLY about the bottom line, they would ALWAYS, ALWAYS choose to take on the MORE lucrative position, one HUNDRED percent of the time. ESPECIALLY if the more lucrative position of assisting with birth is one of the two jobs that an Ob/Gyn provides ALONG WITH ABORTION. Do you understand what logic REALLY is, now?

          • fiona64

            I must say, I find it ironic that a person who cannot construct an intelligent sentence or make an argument is calling *anyone* a dumbass …

          • Jennifer Starr

            You were the one who said there was more money in abortion, which simply isn’t true. Birth and adoption are much more profitable.

          • vitario2000

            No I did not compare the 2, I said the avortion clinic operators do not want regulations because it eats away at their profit, they are in it for the money and are billion dollar corporations, Still I was sticking to the point of the article, which is special priviledge for the abortion clinics on spot inspections. Of course it is cheaper to abort then to have a child and raise it even, but that was not in any way a topic. Purrtriarchy played that card not me. With his immature name calling thinking it made him look all grown up and wise.

          • Arekushieru

            And BOTH points flew RIGHT over your head. After all, purrtriarchy was NOT saying that you WERE comparing the two. They WERE, however, saying that your ‘point’ would ONLY be reasonable, if the FACT that pregnancy, delivery AND adoption are MORE PROFITABLE than abortion, WERE NOT TRUE.

            Secondly, we have proven OVER AND OVER, again that this is NOT a special privilege. You have repeatedly IGNORED and FAILED TO ADDRESS those points. OOOPS?

          • fiona64

            I said the avortion clinic operators do not want regulations because it eats away at their profit

            Citation needed. Peer-reviewed sites only, thanks.

          • goatini

            And let me say again – YOU lost the point.

          • Arekushieru

            Abortion isn’t murder. And her point was only a comparison between the PROFITABILITY of abortion and the PROFITABILITY of adoption. So, what was that about changing the subject, again, oh-master-of-producing-strawmen?

          • goatini

            No actual news sources there, only radical right-wing propaganda organs.

          • vitario2000

            Like this site is merely a left wing propaganda organiztion right. Convient way for you ignore truth label all real news propaganda.

          • goatini

            Off of the top of my head, I am aware of the FACTS that:

            LIE Shite Spews is NOT “real news” and IS lying propaganda.

            The Moonie Washington Times is NOT “real news” and IS lying propaganda.

          • vitario2000

            wrong

          • Jennifer Starr

            The Washington Times is run by the Moonies. They’re a cult.

          • goatini

            Actually, I am correct. Both of those propaganda cesspools are run by and for radical theocratic fundamentalists, and are well known to be owned and operated for the sole purpose of unsuccessfully attempting to legitimize extreme right-wing agitprop.

          • Arekushieru

            “this would interupt the business”

            No, not my words. Anyhow, you misinterpreted (which is SO unsurprising) the meaning behind the words. It does NOT mean that it interrupts a business as a profit-making entity but rather that it interrupts the very safety and care that such a business is SUPPOSED to provide and that your ilk seem so hell-bent on making us believe IS the intent behind the legislation. Oops?

            Please address my points rather than introducing strawmen, since I also never said anything about whether abortion was a lucrative business or NOT.

            So, first you complain about people who are Pro-Choice at any cost, then rally around those who are Pro-Life at any cost? Wow, hypocrisy thy name is Pro-LIFE.

            Again, please learn to read. We do not want LESS inspections or fewer regulations. We have explained to you, NUMEROUS times, how this law is not about increasing the number of surprise spot inspections AND how regulations and safety inspections of other more risky and dangerous surgeries compare unfavourably (in your OWN view) yet no one has raised any significant concerns about THAT, which, you’d think, they WOULD if safety WAS their concern, no? Whoops.

            The media you refer to are not ‘Pro-Choice’ media. They fall prey to the same stereotypes to which Conservative media falls. They just happen to not use it in a DELIBERATELY harmful way.

            And just because you followed the trial and the web on such a topic does not mean that you will find information from a relatively minor website that is so easily silenced, *especially* when compared to the Pro-’Life’ machine that exists in the state with the highest number of abortion restrictions. YOU are the one that made the first claim. YOU are the one that should be providing us with the evidence that no such links exist.

            Other abortion ‘mills’? I’m pretty sure that the ones you’re referring to are simply places that the Pro-’Life’ fanatics have raised a hue and cry over simply because they are Pro-’life’ at any cost. Why aren’t you saying anything about THOSE people? Probably because you really don’t care whether we are Pro-Choice ‘at any cost’, after ALL. You just think it makes you look so smugly superior, when it actually just makes you look like a hypocrite.

            No, YOU are the one dancing around the facts. YOU are the one blaming those who really care. Pro-”lifers” tend to be the most brainwashed people I’ve met, because the operators of the Pro-’Life’ machine DEPEND on spewing out as much propaganda as they possibly can in as little TIME as they possibly can.

            I said before that I wasn’t discussing the profitability (or lack thereof) of the ‘abortion industry’, but NOW I am. Are you aware that Planned Parenthood is a non-profit organization? Any money it happens to make is invested back into the organization, itself. On top of that, abortion is only 3% of the services it provides. An abortion provider is also an Ob/Gyn. They will be paid for any abortions they provide AS LONG AS they meet certain criteria ON TOP OF the fact that the OB/Gyn side of the equation is FAR more lucrative and less likely to endanger their lives and to put them at risk of terrorist threats, bombings of clinics, etc…. So, do tell me how providing abortions is a ‘multi-million dollar industry’, again?

            If we can’t blame Pro-Life for these types of clinics not being inspected, then why didn’t the politicians that supported the highest number of these abortion restrictions being implemented make a law to have these clinics inspected WHILE THEY WERE HAPPENING? I mean, they implemented these abortion restrictions, yet they didn’t think to implement a similarly styled law until AFTER the fact? That’s just a ‘teeny’ little bit disingenuous, dontcha think? Oops.

            Finally, and to reiterate for the LAST time, we are NOT fighting against clinic ‘regulations’.

          • vitario2000

            You said a lot, that was simply wrong, to begin with I understand, you don’t. Just because the clinic is an abortion provider, is no reason for a special law to “exempt” them from a spot inspection, or make said inspection get approval from a judge. If this was a good thing then all medical clinics should have that same exemption (not just abortion providers). This Bill simply ends that special exemption.

            “simply places that the Pro-’Life’ fanatics”, No actually it is places that have been caught by the authorities doing what abortion clinics do. The pro-chioce preferred answer to them is they are the exception not the rule, yet women die and are maimed for life and you play it down as something the Pro-lifers some how did and don’t care one bit for those women, nor the viable children murdered after birth.

            Pro- life mean for life of all conserned, mother and child. Life is not easy, we make mistakes and live with the results hopefully learning from our error in judgement. If you fail to pay your taxes, sooner or later the IRS gets you and you have to live with the results, it is part of adulthood and being a responsible adult.

            The pro life creates laws to make sure clinics (even those we are opposed to what they do) provide clean, safe inviorments for the patients with skilled medical professionals, the whole time fighting the pro choice people who want fast easy abortions. The when local authorities fail to follow those laws you blame the pro life lobby. Where were you in pushing the local authorities to do there jobs? in fact now you are again trying to stop or make it difficult for their jobs to be performed. You want “fast and easy abortions everywhere”. Well first thing is abortion is not easy, not for the woman, and certainly not for the child. My brother at the age of 29 commited suicide when he found out his live in GF (4 yrs) aborted his child, so I will say it is also not easy on the fathers.

            As I stated before I will not ague the abortion view on this site, only what the atricle covers, regulation is good in all medical clinics it protects the patients from quacks, notice I said “all”. No medical clinic deserves an exception, Tell it to the woman who has the urterine wall clpped acidentally and is sent home, because the quack gets nervous he will be found out as what he is, instead of tha doctor who performed the proceedure sending her to the nearest hospital and meeting her there to repair the damage. Yeah righ I’m the one who doesn’t care about women. I care abou their “health” prochoicers care only about her feelings at that point in time in her life. If you are not “fighting against clinic regulations” you are most certainly fighting for exceptions for abortion clinics. Operating rooms in hospitals, where people are going through major surgery do not have that exception, why aren’t you fighting for it? If you were on an article dealing with unfair over regulation of abortion clinics ording more inspection more often then other minor surgery clinics, I would understand your point and even though we disagree on abortion, I would say you were right in your stand. In America if we are to end the fight, we must start sticking to the issue at hand and not to fighting everything the opposing view does. This one of those times the pro choice lobby is twisting a point by painting a ficticious picture of what happens down the road, so they can get you to sand against a protection for women. And all the liberal groups (not unlike the consrvative groups) fall in line and bow down to the Corperate views coming down all dressed up to look pretty. “Keep us fighting one anither and we will not notice the facist takeover of our nation. I’m done on this page- peace to you all, it has been interresting.

          • Arekushieru

            You’ve said a lot that explains really well that you have no fucking clue about what I said. Reading comprehension, peeps, reading comprehension. So, very SLOWLY: The. Clinics. Are. NOT. Exempt. From. Spot. Inspections. The. ONLY. Difference. Is. That. One. Clinic. Needs. Judicial. Approval. While. The. Others. Simply. Need. An. Officer. Of. The. Court’s. Approval. Do you GET it, now?

            Caught by the authorities doing what abortion clinics do? If they are ‘caught’ doing what abortion clinics do, which is terminating a pregnancy, then there ARE no concerns. If women are maimed and die, you should be able to provide REPUTABLE, peer-reviewed links that cite such. You cannot. Because those claims made BY the Pro-Life fanatics have been REFUTED again and again.

            Nope, Pro-’Lifers’ care nothing about the life of the woman and only about the life of the fetus when it can be used to punish a woman for having consensual sex for purposes other than procreation. This has been proven, over and over, again. Do not compare a woman’s body to the government’s wallet, ever again, if you want people to believe that you actually ‘care’ about women. Women make mistakes and they should have the same chances that THEIR MALE COUNTERPARTS would have in order to rectify that and/or take responsibility for it, which is terminate/OR MAINTAIN a pregnancy.

            Nope, the Pro-Life side fights to regulate abortion clinics out of existence. Because they KNOW that these regulations would ONLY be applicable to abortion clinics. The Pro-Life lobby made SURE these restrictions were put in place, IN THE FIRST PLACE. If they put them in place, wouldn’t the RESPONSIBLE thing to do be to ENFORCE THEM???? They did not, though. So they couldn’t even do that, huh? HMMMM. Abortion can CERTAINLY be easy. In FACT, MOST women report RELIEF after having an abortion. Women who do feel regret, typically report pre-existing circumstances, like, say, Pro-Life stigmatizing, harassing, shaming, threatening, bullying, stalking, etc… of these women? If abortion isn’t easy, then birth is even MORE traumatic, for the *fetus*. Sorry, but your brother’s girlfriend was more than just the receptacle for his sperm and the container for the resulting fetus that he thought she was.

            If no medical clinic deserves an exception then why is your ilk trying so fucking hard to make abortion clinics the ONLY exception to the regulations? What about doctors who maim and injure women in labour, then send them home rather than to a hospital where the damage can be repaired? I assure you it happens FAR more often in those cases than when a legal abortion is performed. Again, I have just proven that you do not care about women’s ‘health’. Nope, again, you are the ones fighting for exceptions for abortion clinics. Since dental surgery is far more risky than abortion, yet the clinics are inspected less frequently than abortion clinics (and some of the other members of this site have already INFORMED you of this) and you STILL have done nothing to voice your complaints about that, I call bullshit. I fight everything the opposing view does, because tolerance of intolerance of women’s rights and health, is STILL intolerance. Nope, we have painted a pretty accurate picture for you that you have REFUSED to acknowledge, even when it’s PLAIN AS DAY, over and over, again. The ones that bow down to Corporate voices more often are Pro-Life Conservatives. Yeah, I’m sure Pro-Lifers and/or Conservatives would just LOVE the fact that their tactics that are being used to distract may eventually allow a fascist government takeover similar to that made by their hero, Hitler, in the late 1930s. And… finally… FLOUNCE.

          • Arekushieru

            Reply to Chuter Ricky in moderation: Nope. Hitler’s government was fascist. It’s you who needs to go back to civics and restudy Government types, really, isn’t it? Communism and socialism are two FAR different things, as well. Also, fascism is FAR more of a threat than communism or socialism could EVER be. Corporate welfare springs from fascism and the worst that Capitalism has to offer, after all, and that’s what the Republican and Pro-Life conservatives support. So, when you wonder why your country is turning into a Republic, look to your OWN leaders and heroes first. Because, rather than what Lie Shite Spews tells you, it’s not Liberal Democrat’s fault in ANY way. Oops.

            Also, Obama is a Social Democrat. There’s a difference between Socialism and that, as well. So sorry. Also, Liberals, in the main, are said to support Capitalism, apparently the only type of government run style that you agree with. Yet that type of government is one that BENEFITS corporations more than the little person. Yet, for some reason, you AND your sockpuppet denounce corporations benefiting this way? Uh, why do you antis have to be SO contradictory?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Perhaps at some point you’ll explain why you seem to feel this need to post as both vitario and chuter, ricky. Especially when you know that Ricky never gets out of moderation. Some kind of identity issue that you have?

          • fiona64

            He seems to think that having a sock puppet to upvote his other account lends him legitimacy.

            He’s delusional.

          • vitario2000

            No, it was a simple mistake, I was logged out by a family member who use the computer. When I checked my e-mail and clicked the link, I was directed to log back in. I obviuosly logged into the wrong account. An old one, nothing sinister…lol. the things liberals grasp on when they have no real points to their arguements amaze me. No really it’s a know tactic of debates, to attack personally when losing a debate. Peace to all.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Apparently you’ve done this ‘mistake’ switch more than a few times now–about eleven times? If that’s the case you must be quite absent-minded. And then when your comments never show up and stay in moderation, you don’t repost them under the vitario name instead? Yeah, I’m smelling BS here. I think you use Chuter, Ricky to make little passive-aggressive attacks and say things that you don’t want to show up on the board.

          • fiona64

            yet women die and are maimed for life

            You keep shrieking this falsehood, and I don’t get it. Why? Because (as has already been pointed out, with citations), 14 times MORE women die or are maimed for life from PREGNANCY than they are from abortion.

            If you cannot understand this, you must have some sort of cognitive disability.

          • fiona64

            Please address my points rather than introducing strawmen,

            If we could only stop the anti-choice from introducing strawmen, they would finally shut up. After all, it’s all they ahve.

          • goatini

            RHRC started reporting on the Gosnell crimes in 2010. They weren’t opportunistic bandwagon jumpers very, very late in the game, like LIE Shite Spews was.

          • goatini

            Actually, it is the global billion-dollar human trafficking adoption syndicate that make billions every year by preying on desperate women for the sole purpose of exploitation.

            Fixed it for you.

          • vitario2000

            So losing a point, CHANGE THE SUBJECT…lol Keep you child away from the adoption pirates and murder it…sounds like awesome advice! Send that to PP they just might adopt it as the new motto. I can’t believe you actually went there.

          • goatini

            The one who lost the point was you, though I am sure you are loath to admit it. FAR more **profit** is realized in the billion-dollar global human trafficking adoption syndicate, than by safe, legal pregnancy termination procedures. I understand why vultures like you might not want such a sweet deal to come to an end – free of charge inventory that sells for five figures a pop to the highest bidder, created by unpaid workers risking their lives in indentured servitude as public baby ovens to be exploited by the selfish and greedy. This evil industry has NO liabilities from unacceptable/unsellable inventory – those all fall upon the unpaid worker and/or the state.

            I can’t believe any sane, compassionate person thinks that exploiting women with unwanted pregnancies as public breeding livestock is preferable to respecting the civil, human and Constitutional rights of female US citizens to avail themselves, without interference or obstruction, of their right to a safe, legal pregnancy termination.

          • fiona64

            If you know of anyone murdering children, get on the phone with the police right now.

          • fiona64

            You do realize that it is the pro-choice and PP that makes it hard for
            any local agency to fulfill the law in doing the inspections

            You are such a liar.

            Stand up and take responsiblity for being the cause of Gosnell

            Considering that this site was reporting on Gosnell since 2010 and trying to get something done about him, you’re a liar again. It’s people like YOU who create the environment that allows a Gosnell to exist.

          • vitario2000

            Reporting on and standing against is different things, link your articles from before He was busted where you are trying to get someone to help, and if that were true, tell me why the pro choice lobby did not back you in screaming out about him. You say this site was aware that this person was injuring women and murdering born children and did nothing? Why were you not carring signs with those pro life people out there and stopping him? You say this site reported on him but did nothing to push the fact to authorities, why would you have lost membership by standing against a provider? Where are your priorities? The women & children or just the right to abortion. If it is the right to abortion your stand against spot inspections makes sense, but if it is with the safety of women and children then your stand is hypocritical.

          • fiona64

            Dude, you’re a litlte hysterical here. You are putting words in my mouth that I never said. But I’m happy to answer your question:

            http://rhrealitycheck.org/tag/dr-kermit-gosnell/

            There’s the entire archive. Knock your asinine self out.

  • fiona64

    So, this one will be challenged in court, as the other one was, proving the point that CAP is just trying to cost the state money.

    What happens when some religious nutter with a bug up his butt becomes an “inspector” and just starts showing up every damn day? Because business as usual cannot be conducted during an inspection, of course.

    • lady_black

      I have to say something here, having dealt with inspections being done by departments of health. There should be administrators to deal with inspectors, and business should be going on as usual during an inspection. Inspections shouldn’t be a problem, as staff should be conducting business according to regulations every day. The state is going to have to pay inspectors a salary, and no state budget is unlimited. I sort of doubt your scenario would ever become a reality. In a lot of states, inspectors can show up unannounced to any healthcare facility, usually based upon complaints. Mine included. The remedy is knowing and following all dept. of health regulations at all times. Surely all women’s health clinics have administrators and this is part of their job. In 27 years of long-term care experience, inspections never prevented us from doing our jobs. If they don’t find anything, they don’t show up day after day. No state could afford to pay for that.

      • fiona64

        I’m basing my assumption on many years working in hospital Quality departments, where business as usual for much of the hospital came to a screaming halt when JCAHO was coming. Yes, I concur that any facility should be ready at any time … but you also have to concede that this law would create a constant load of bullshit “complaints,” all of which must be responded to … and serves no purpose whatsoever except to disrupt business.

  • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

    Are they going to be entering a room when an abortion is being done? I would not put it past Texas. They are the state of roadside cavity searches.
    http://jonathanturley.org/2012/12/20/texas-state-troopers-sues-over-roadside-cavity-search-in-search-of-marijuana-possession/