• Mirable

    Unbelievable.

  • JivinJ

    “While the Gosnell grand jury report indicated that the rogue provider
    was able to operate undetected as a result of lawmakers treating
    abortion as a political issue rather than a public health one, the
    response of the state legislature was to further politicize abortion.”

    That’s really quite deceptive. Gosnell was able to operate because the Departments of Health and State under pro-choice governors didn’t want to enforce regulations and do inspections of abortion clinics. The response was to pass laws to ensure the clinics were regulated and inspected. The Grand Jury report even calls for abortion clinics to be treated as ambulatory surgical facilities.

    • goatini

      I know what’s “deceptive” here, and it’s not the accurate information in Ms Murtha’s article that you are deliberately and intentionally distorting to fit your misogynistic forced-birther agenda.

      • JivinJ

        So explain how I’m wrong instead of just saying I am. For example, cite in the Gosnell Grand Jury report why Gosnell was able to operate for years – which lawmakers treated abortion as a political issue and not a public health one?

        • lady_black

          I just told you precisely why you’re wrong. The evidence of the case proves I’m telling the truth. Occam’s razor time. What makes more sense? 1) PA officials had the complaints on Gosnell, made by pro-choice leaders, and ignored them because pro-choice folks pressured them to ignore the complaints (resulting in untold misery for the very women that pro-choice folks seek to protect). Or 2) PA officials had the complaints on Gosnell, made by pro-choice leaders, and chose to ignore them because they just don’t give a damn, and didn’t feel like spending the money on enforcement. Take your pick of which scenario makes sense. If it doesn’t make sense, it’s NOT TRUE.

          • goatini

            Thank you, I was just about to compose the same facts and comparison. Like you, and Judge Judy, say – “If it doesn’t make sense, it’s NOT TRUE”.

          • BJ Survivor

            JivinJ is a long-time forced-birth advocate, who compares women’s bodies to oxygen tanks. To his credit, he actually does know how hormonal contraception, including EC, works and doesn’t try to claim that it is “abortifacient.”

            Being a forced-birther, he cannot wrap his tiny mind around the idea that pro-choice activists actually care about the health of women (since “pro-life” activists don’t actually care about the health of embryos/fetuses or actual babies, much less women), so it probably makes sense to him that pro-choicers would simultaneously make a show of filing complaints against Gosnell while also pressuring the state government to ignore him. Cognitive dissonance for the win!

          • expect_resistance

            Applause!!!!!
            I knew that name JivinJ sounded familiar.

          • five_by_five

            The problem with pro-choicers is that they don’t believe in any abortion restrictions.

            Just look at the headlines on this website. Every time a restriction comes up that would make abortion clinics safer, it is immediately labeled as “anti-choice” because it would hold providers to a higher standard — standards that would have prevented things like Kermit Gosnell.

          • Mirable

            Yeah. Requirements that just happen to put abortion clinics out of business…how convenient.

          • five_by_five

            Only when people who allegedly support abortion, like yourself, don’t donate enough money to keep the clinics open.

            So get out your checkbook Mirable.

          • Mirable

            You should be equally concerned about other clinics that perform outpatient procedures – dentistry, podiatry, and proctology. All things that can kill. Oh, and plastic surgery.

            Where is the concern for people who could die from wisdom tooth removal?

          • five_by_five

            Do you know what a strawman argument is? Because you just made one.

            But, hey, that’s cool.

          • Mirable

            You are pretending that you and your PL buddies genuinely care about patient safety. Yet you only seem worried about abortion clinics…

          • lady_black

            You’re more likely to die from the wisdom tooth removal. That’s the straw man.

          • stubbikins

            It is not straw man when the regulations ONLY apply to abortion clinics. It is pointing out the lies in the arguments that are used to pass these laws.

          • five_by_five

            Because when you get a colonoscopy, you aren’t fucking around with a human embryo.

            Oh and because of people like Kermit Gosnell.. THAT is why we need regulations specific to abortion providers. Do you realize that if we didn’t have regulation and limits on abortions, that Gosnell would be a free man right now?

            The “it’s my body, my choice” doesn’t always apply. Never has.

          • Mirable

            Because when you get a colonoscopy, you aren’t fucking around with a human embryo.

            Uhm, the presence of an embryo doesn’t automatically make abortion more dangerous than wisdom tooth removal, silly.

            Really, try to keep up, and maybe we’ll let you up from the kids table.

          • stubbikins

            You really do not need to keep displaying your extreme ignorance. We already knew you were stupid.

            Please explain why a clinic that only prescribes RU 486 and performs NO surgical abortions needs a full million dollar operating room?

          • P. McCoy

            People like you putting more and more obstacles in the way of getting a safe abortion and don’t lay that notion that ” it’s not safe for the unborn baby ” that won’t work with me – I don’t use 3000 year old interpretations of things to guide me in my present medical decisions ; to wit; a fetus is not a person to me, is why Gosnell had patients in the first place. It is also why terrorists like YOU need to be imprisoned and I mean Federal Government Imprisonment that says no visitors – solitary confinement. No terrorists supporting clergy wanting to hold your hands all the while spewing their forced birther propaganda, promoting theocracy. You better be able to confess to God on your own as well as learn to self absolve. That’s how I fight total war againstyyour kind.

          • five_by_five

            I’m an Atheist.

          • HeilMary1

            Liar, you pedophile priest.

          • colleen2

            Once again, your personal belief system DOES NOT MATTER. We do not give a fuck what you believe. The vile misogynistic crap you spout are directly from the religious right/Republican party. They are your allies, your brethren. We are not interested in your vile beliefs and we are even less interested in you personally.

          • lady_black

            Gosnell is not a free man now because he’s a criminal. He wasn’t following the existing law. But more laws will put quacks like him in line. Yeah, RIGHT! Only in your mind. There was no problem with actual legitimate abortion providers. You just said what your objection is. You don’t want anyone getting rid of a human embryo. That’s too bad for you. That only matters if it’s *your* embryo. It’s ok if people are injured by outpatient colonoscopies, so long as there’s no embryo involved. Sure, that makes sense… NOT. Women have been miscarrying with or without medical attention for a long time. Most of the time, medical attention is unnecessary. Usually our own bodies do all the work. That includes medication induced miscarriages. Try getting a wisdom tooth extraction or a colonoscopy by means of your own body, and let us know how that works out for you.

          • Mirable

            No no no. Removing a jellybean size embryo is SRS biznes compared to having teeth ripped out of your jaw!

          • expect_resistance

            Nicely said. I like the analogy.

          • five_by_five

            He’s a criminal because of abortion restrictions.

            If this were Canada (with almost no abortion restrictions) he’d be walking around a free man because what he did could be considered a choice between the woman and the provider. Would you be OK with that?

          • Mirable

            No, he would not. In Canada there are NO abortion restrictions and what a shock, NOTHING like Gosnell has ever happened.

            And no, he would be in jail in Canada because he killed neonates once they were BORN.

          • expect_resistance

            Bullshit. Again you know nothing, please shut up.

          • five_by_five

            You’re right. Canada has a lot of abortion restrictions. I forgot.

          • HeilMary1

            He’d still be in jail for having unlicensed RECEPTIONISTS performing medical procedures and drug trafficking!

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            No. He is a criminal because he did not have the skill to do late term abortions, so he INDUCED LABOR. Then he killed the neonate born alive and crying. That is not abortion. That is murder.

          • five_by_five

            He should have injected the baby’s heart with morphine beforehand like the other abortion docs.

          • fiona64

            Citation needed … other than ‘crap I’m just making up,’ thanks.

          • colleen2

            If this were Canada (with almost no abortion restrictions) he’d be walking around a free manM

            What a pathetic, hysterical liar you are.

          • HeilMary1

            Mother killer, Gosnell would still be in jail because he illegally sold drugs, had unlicensed and untrained RECEPTIONISTS perform medical procedures, and ignored deadly patient complications.

          • fiona64

            You really are too stupid for color TV.

          • HeilMary1

            Most pro-choicers aren’t billionaires, but do send what they can afford, jackass.

          • five_by_five

            Ha, yeah right.

            If pro-choicers actually gave a damn about planned parenthood, they wouldn’t have a funding problem.

            You can talk the talk, but you’re not grown up enough to walk the walk, loser.

          • HeilMary1

            Pig, even though I have horrific medical bills from my anti-abortion mom’s abuse, I DONATE TO PP. Since I’m too disfigured from her abstinence-only abuse, I can only donate $100 per year at most. $100 will only cover one visit for one patient, hardly enough to keep PP in business helping millions. What have you done besides high-fiving pedophile priests?!

          • five_by_five

            I guess you better start working harder…or smarter.

            Well, I guess it’ll have to be harder.

          • expect_resistance

            I see you took my advice and are working harder at lying more. I see you’ve raised your quotient of insults too. No one cares about the bullshit you post.

          • five_by_five

            If you don’t care about my posts, then stop replying doofus.

            And, yes, I’ve up’d the insult ante. I think I was falling behind HeilMary1, so I had to crank it up a bit.

          • HeilMary1

            Fetal idolater, do you realize that probably half of all menstruating, sexually active women have caffeine-aborted “babies” in their pants? Those “babies” are just going to be flushed or thrown away. Shouldn’t they be given funerals with all the flower trimmings?

          • expect_resistance

            You’re a joke.

          • five_by_five

            The “joke” is that you claim to not care about my posts….but you keep replying.
            again and again and again…….

          • expect_resistance

            You have a problem with free speech.

          • five_by_five

            Stop caring about my post so much.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Say pretty please

          • Mirable

            Stop caring about the aborted DS embryo on my crackers, cracker!

          • HeilMary1

            No, I’ll just work harder to expose mother-killing pedophile priest pigs like you so that you go to jail where you belong. And no American will ever again vote for mother-killing pro-liars who defund mother-saving PP.

          • expect_resistance

            You know nothing about fundraising.

          • five_by_five

            I guess that puts me in the same category as Planned Parenthood.

          • expect_resistance

            No.

          • five_by_five

            Stop caring about my post so much

          • expect_resistance

            Don’t flatter yourself.

          • five_by_five

            Stop caring about my post so so much

          • Jennifer Starr

            So so much?

          • expect_resistance

            Another fact free post. Boring.

          • HeilMary1

            If you walked your own talk, you’d be attending “baby” tampon funerals morning, noon, and night.

          • lady_black

            See, the thing you keep missing is that Gosnell didn’t give a damn about restrictions. HE’S A CRIMINAL. Criminals are not well known for following the law. LAW ABIDING folks obey the law. So sure… on your planet, Gosnell was law abiding, and we just need better laws! Sure, why not. That’ll work.

          • stubbikins

            Not all restrictions/requirements are the same. The recent ones do nothing to improve care and only exist in order to make it financially impossible for clinics to stay open.

          • five_by_five

            Nothing is stopping you from donating money to these clinics.

            So get to it.

          • stubbikins

            Why would you assume I don’t? How about the anti choice nutbags simply stop making ridiculous destructive regulations?!?!

            Doesn’t the right wing scream everyday about how regulations are the root of all evil and destroy our economy? So why would they create new ones for no reason? Could it be that you are all hypocritical lying judgmental a holes?

          • five_by_five

            Well, you obviously didn’t give enough to keep the clinics open.

            The question is why do you hate women so much that you and your pro-abortion friends couldn’t donate enough to keep the clinics open?

            Time to put your money where your mouth is.

          • Mirable

            Time to put your money where your mouth is.

            6 inches forward and five inches back.

          • stubbikins

            Obviously you are a worthless ignorant troll.

          • expect_resistance

            5×5 is a forced-birther troll who habitually lies to attempt to win arguments.

          • HeilMary1

            Why do you treat women like disposable incubators??

          • five_by_five

            Sex is a choice.

            The only person turning anyone into a “disposable incubator” is themselves.

            Isn’t freedom great?

          • HeilMary1

            Pig, YOU and your pedophile priests turn all women into incubators for your disgusting fetal idolatry. You are a pig to insist wives and rape victims always risk obstetric bladder and bowel incontinence and other deadly injuries every time they have expected or forced sex.

          • five_by_five

            Mommy didn’t love you.

            She probably wanted an abortion, but you popped out.

            Too bad.

          • HeilMary1

            Pig mother killer, she suffered appalling obstetric bladder and bowel incontinence and feared the next pregnancy would kill her, so she obeyed a playboy priest and chemically burned my skin off to extort permanent abstinence from my dad. You criminal forced birthers have Munchausen by Proxy psychosis with your medical assaults on mothers and their forced birth disabled kids.

          • five_by_five

            Your story sounds fun. You should write a book. It should be title

            “I Hate People with Down Syndrome and It Is Mommy’s Fault”

          • Mirable

            You do know that the entire PC movement was founded on killing as many DS people as possible? A noble goal, I say.

          • five_by_five

            You jest, but there is a STRONG eugenics, and very racist, component of Planned Parenthood that I’m sure you’re familiar with.

          • Mirable

            Does it make you wet?

          • five_by_five

            yup

          • HeilMary1

            You oppose contraception and abortion so you will have more disabled kids to bully into suicide. My anti-abortion brother screamed at me to commit suicide so he wouldn’t have to look at my burned face, never mind that his precious mom burned me to keep his pompous ass out of an orphanage where he would have gone if fed-up dad divorced mom over her no-sex-forever tyranny!

            Nazi pig you hates Margaret Sanger because she saved MILLIONS of black women from childbirth deaths.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Oh look, it’s found a new talking point.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You are desperate if you are using that ancient dusty lie.

          • five_by_five

            link please

          • HeilMary1

            No, pig, the first draft is entitled “Immaculate Deception: How the Pedophile Priest War on Safe Sex Forces Mothers to Commit Munchausen by Proxy Abuse on Unwanted Children to Avoid Killer Pregnancies.”

          • Jennifer Starr

            You don’t give a crap about kids with Down Syndrome–to you they’re just props and talking points. You’d cut financial and educational aid to disabled children in a split second.

          • Mirable

            Tell her that you eat DS fetuses HM. The thought will make her panties moist.

          • five_by_five

            Love the maturity. I strive for that….to make my panties moist and all

          • Mirable

            You do. I really think you do. Hence the obsession with fetal body parts.

            Are you typing with one hand?

          • HeilMary1

            “She” is probably a pedophile priest under house arrest here is the U.S. and is livid that “she” is missing “her” frequent Viagra sprees in Bangkok and Manila.

          • fiona64

            “She” is a basement dwelling teenaged boy.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Over Corporal Ferro? Do you watch her death scene in that overrated movie over and over?

          • Mirable

            So that’s where that stupid avatar is from.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Yes. And she’s apparently under the impression that it was a good character for some reason.

          • HeilMary1

            Zygote slurpees!

          • Mirable

            Embryonic caviar.

          • HeilMary1

            Served on my favorite Triskets! — Dill flavored.

          • expect_resistance

            Don’t listen to five, he/she is an asshole idiot.

          • expect_resistance

            Way out of line personal attack.

            All you have is lies, bullying, personal attacks, and stupid assumptions.

          • HeilMary1

            Proof that pro-liars hate the already here disabled and get holy orgasms bullying them into suicide.

          • Mirable

            She’s a playa hata HM. She’s just jealous that we are all getting abortions and aborting DS feti en masse.

          • five_by_five

            It’s a good thing your idol, HeilMary1 does participate in personal attacks and bullying.

          • HeilMary1

            You mean like you?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Pipe down– you haven’t been bullied. You’ve been trolling and getting exactly what you came in here for.

          • five_by_five

            Oh, and your mommy probably wanted an abortion as well.

            But you forced her to be your incubator.

          • HeilMary1

            I wish she had aborted me instead. Your RCC forced me on her by denying her contraception.

          • five_by_five

            MY RCC?

            Nope, try again. I don’t kiss the Pope’s ass.

          • HeilMary1

            We know you want to!

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Another scat remark. You are scat freak too. You need this for release and relief obviously.
            http://www.filthysextube.com/

          • expect_resistance

            Sounds like you have projection issues.

          • fiona64

            Flagged. Again. You are *way* out of line, jerkwad …

          • five_by_five

            Awww….hey what did you or some other pro-abortion twit say to me when I flagged Mirable’s comment?

            “poor baby got his feelings hurt…..”

          • Jennifer Starr

            Your point?

          • five_by_five

            That you’re hypocrites.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Because?

          • Mirable

            My comments r teh sex.

          • expect_resistance

            Hysterically funny.

          • HeilMary1

            You’re a mother-killing hypocrite, and the only hypocrite here.

          • fiona64

            What you wrote was so far beyond the pale that you would be ashamed of yourself if you weren’t so obviously a sociopath …

          • five_by_five

            Yeah it’s a good thing you weren’t upvoting comments about eating fetuses the other day or anything….

            Sounds like you need a little thicker skin. What’s the matter? The reality of abortion too much for you to handle now?

          • fiona64

            Sounds like you need a little thicker skin. What’s the matter? The reality of abortion too much for you to handle now?

            The reality of abortion is that it’s far safer than the pregnancy that nearly killed me. The reality of your behavior is that your parents brought you up very poorly.

            DIAF.

          • five_by_five

            It’s not safer for the fetus. It’s a confirmed death sentence.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Safer for the born, sentient woman. That’s what matters.

          • five_by_five

            What’s even safer is actually using or properly using contraception.

            You can ask L-Dan about that.

          • Jennifer Starr

            A person like you is certainly not in any position to judge L-Dan’s reproductive choices.

          • five_by_five

            L-Dan had an abortion that she admits was due to her own irresponsibility.

            I’d say that I’m in a position to judge.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Not someone like you, no.

          • HeilMary1

            She’s a billion times more responsible than mother-killer / pedophile priest you!

          • expect_resistance

            You would “know” since you’ve been on the pill your entire life. Or almost your entire life if you have had 20 years of experience using the pill. No, your not judgmental. *eyeroll*

          • HeilMary1

            You antis also oppose contraception.

          • five_by_five

            Well I don’t oppose contraception….so suck on that loser.

            Oh, BTW, how’s your nasty, messed up vagina doing?

          • HeilMary1

            I don’t believe your lying lips.

          • expect_resistance

            Another fact free post. You pretend to have personal knowledge about using birth control pills and use that as your false leverage to berate and insult women. Of course we busted you for lying about being on the pill for 20-years.

          • five_by_five

            Yep, you busted me. I’m not in elementary school. I’m glad that you’re part of the crack detective team that was able to figure that one out.

          • Mirable

            You’re at least in middle school by now. Well, no. I know 14 year olds who are better at debate than you.

          • Mirable

            The right to life does not include the positive right to use another person’s body as life support. IF that = death for the fetus because it cannot survive without using another person’s organs to maintain all of it’s bodily functions for it, too bad.

          • five_by_five

            Yeah, too bad that pregnant person made the conscious decision to bring a life into this world and for it to use “another person’s organs to maintain all of it’s bodily functions”

            That”s the thing about choices. Sometimes they have consequences. Something you don’t quite understand.

          • Mirable

            That does not give it the right to use her body without consent. If a woman chooses to have sex, and says ‘stop right now’ she does not consent to more sex, because that would be *rape*.

            The right to live does not include the right to use another person’s body as life support, and to hurt that person. If it did, organ donations would be MANDATORY from criminals and from people who injure others – be it on the job, or in car accidents, etc.

          • HeilMary1

            You refuse to admit that you antis OPPOSE contraception and MARITAL SEX.

          • fiona64

            And here it is at last, your seemingly polite way of saying “If you don’t want a baby, don’t have sex.”

            Little boy, you need to stop worrying about what other people do and go back to mommy’s basement.

          • HeilMary1

            ALL abortions are SELF-DEFENSE. Why do you want billions of women maimed and murdered by unwanted pregnancies?

          • colleen2

            How fortunate that ‘the fetus’ (and, more commonly, ‘the embryo’) haven’t developed enough to be aware of ANYTHING including pain.

          • five_by_five

            When exactly does the fetus feel pain? Magically when it pops out at 40 weeks and not a day sooner?

          • Mirable

            Up until 35 weeks the fetus cannot distinguish touch from pain in the womb. Both signals will be interpreted the same – as touch.

            The fetus is also sedated whilst in the womb. The womb is a low oxygen environment, and the prenate is essentially unconscious up until birth. Once the amniotic sac bursts, and the baby is forced violently out through the birth canal, it will awaken because fluid will be forced out of it’s lungs, and oxygen will enter it’s body for the first time.

            When the amniotic sac fails to break, babies are born unconscious:

            http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/06/05/article-0-1A285066000005DC-569_634x431.jpg

          • five_by_five

            “Up until 35 weeks the fetus cannot distinguish touch from pain in the womb.”

            Source please

          • Mirable

            http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822%2811%2900885-2

            And just so you know, feti born without brains – where the cerebral cortex didnt develop (which is where consciousness arises from) can also react to stimuli – but they cannot ‘experience’ it due to not having a cortex.

          • HeilMary1

            We all noticed how you ignore the frequent grisly, deadly complications of childbirth because you can’t handle the truth.

          • BJ Survivor

            That is correct. I do not believe there should be any restrictions on elective and therapeutic abortions, just appropriate medical regulations and standards. Which is exactly the situation for all other elective and therapeutic medical procedures.

            [One of] the [many] problem[s] with forced-birthers is that they want to single out one particular medical procedure for unnecessary restriction and regulation by politicians.

          • lady_black

            Well it makes no sense to anyone with more than two functioning brain cells.

          • JivinJ

            You should really read the report. I’m not making stuff up but because you haven’t taken the time to read the report you don’t have any clue what you’re talking about. Regular inspections of abortion clinics stopped when Tom Ridge (a pro-choice Republican became governor). The Grand Jury report claims this was partly because of officials in his administration. I never said the same pro-choicers (not all pro-choicers are the same) were behind both pressuring the government to end inspections and encouraging women to complain against Gosnell.

          • expect_resistance

            Off topic.

          • colleen2

            Honey, you always make stuff up.

          • BJ Survivor

            This website has been covering the Gosnell case for years. I have quite a lot more knowledge about it than you do, mansplainer.

          • JivinJ

            But you haven’t read the report, correct? So you don’t have direct knowledge of the information in the report – just information filtered from this website? What’s better?

          • JivinJ

            So then you haven’t read the Grand Jury report? If you did, you would know that the state didn’t have complaints from pro-choice leaders on file. Some abortion clinics in the area attempted to get women who visited Gosnell to file formal complaints but the women found it difficult.

            I suggest you read the report so you know what you’re talking about because you clearly don’t.

          • lady_black

            Complaints were filed by legitimate doctors. It’s not necessary to get women who aren’t doctors to file complaints.

          • expect_resistance

            Off topic again.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Known prior complaints
            1989 and 1993 – cited by Pennsylvania Department of Health for having no nurses in the recovery room.[16]
            1996 – censured and fined in both Pennsylvania and New York states, for employing unlicensed personnel.[16]
            Around 1996 – Pediatrician Dr Schwartz – the former head of adolescent services at the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia and as of 2010, Philadelphia’s health commissioner – testified in the 2010 hearing that around 1996 or 1997, he had hand-delivered a letter of complaint about Gosnell’s practice to the Secretary of Health’s office and stopped referring patients to the clinic, but received no response.[17]
            2000 – Civil lawsuit filed on behalf of the children of Semika Shaw, who had called the clinic the day after an abortion to report heavy bleeding, and died 3 days later of a perforated uterus and a bloodstream infection. The case alleged that Gosnell had failed to tell her to return to the clinic or seek emergency medical care. It was settled out of court in 2002 for $900,000.[8][18]
            Around 2001 – Gosnell claimed to be providing children’s vaccines under a program administered by the Health Department’s Division of Disease Control, but was repeatedly suspended for failing to maintain logs and for storing vaccines in unsanitary and inappropriate refrigerators, and at improper temperatures.[19]
            December 2001 – ex-employee Marcella Choung gave what the Grand Jury would later call “a detailed written complaint” to thePennsylvania Department of State, one which she followed up with an interview in March 2002.[20]
            2006 – Civil lawsuit filed by patient but dismissed as out of time. The complaint was that Gosnell had been unable to complete an abortion, but then apparently failed or refused to call paramedics or other clinical emergency personnel, after the patient had needed help. The patient reported, “I really felt like he was going to let me die.”[12]
            In total during the course of his career, 46 known lawsuits had been filed against Gosnell over some 32 years.[21] Observers claimed that there was a complete failure by Pennsylvania regulators who had overlooked other repeated concerns brought to their attention, including lack of trained staff, “barbaric” conditions, and a high level of illegal late-term abortions.[22]

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          Responding to Lopez’s question, “How did Pennsylvania ever let this happen?” Mullane replied that the Keystone State’s former governor “Tom Ridge, is, to me, Gosnell’s chief enabler”

          Ridge is a pro-choice Republican and it was his administration that decided to halt annual inspections of Pennsylvania’s abortion clinics.

          • lady_black

            Nonsense. That doesn’t mean they don’t follow up on complaints. The cheap so and so didn’t want to spend the money.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Of course.

    • Beatrix S.L

      You’re being deceptive. Pro choice advocates tried to get Gosnell inspected for years, but the women who had abortions would have had to testify (therefore be judged by people like you) and that scared them away. Abortion clinics are already heavily regulated.

      • JivinJ

        What did I specifically say that is deceptive? While some women didn’t file complaints against Gosnell, a number of them did. Those complaints were basically ignored and not investigated by the government departments. I doubt you read the Gosnell report because testifying wasn’t why the reports weren’t filled out. The complaint were apparently difficult to fill out and required a great deal of information.

        If abortion clinics are already heavily regulated then how was Gosnell able to operate for so many years without being inspected? Your comment doesn’t make any sense.

        • lady_black

          The complaints were ignored because ensuring the safety of women costs the state money, and they just weren’t interested in doing so. They didn’t care. Nor, according to you, did they care to assist women with filling out complaint forms, or making the process easier. (I say “according to you” because you haven’t provided any proof that this was the case, and even if it IS the case, that doesn’t absolve the state of responsibility.) Gosnell was busted by federal authorities for running a pill mill. That’s very embarrassing for the state of PA. Don’t expect state officials to admit they bungled this for years.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I live in Philly. They blamed women. They did it, said the lawyer apologists, because they did not want to rile up prochoice activists.
            I kid you not.

          • lady_black

            You didn’t expect them to blame themselves, and admit they don’t care, did you? The dirty liars! Women were complaining about Gosnell for years and nothing was done.

          • L-dan

            Yeah. The “we didn’t want to rile up the pro-choice activists” excuse rings sort of false when they’re getting reports from other abortion providers who were operating within regulations.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            An esteemed physician complained.

            Around 1996 – Pediatrician Dr Schwartz – the former head of adolescent services at the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia and as of 2010, Philadelphia’s health commissioner – testified in the 2010 hearing that around 1996 or 1997, he had hand-delivered a letter of complaint about Gosnell’s practice to the Secretary of Health’s office and stopped referring patients to the clinic, but received no response.[17]

          • JivinJ

            Care to cite in the Grand Jury report where it says the complaints were ignored because it cost the state money?

            I agree that the state officials didn’t care and that’s one of the things the Grand Jury report talks about.

          • lady_black

            The financial part is an educated guess. The safety of women isn’t high on the list of republican priorities. It definitely was NOT because of “pro-choice” policies. Pro-choice people wanted Gosnell shut down.

        • stubbikins

          They were ignored despite pro choice advocates requesting the investigation.

          Your question was already answered. Try reading.

    • lady_black

      Gosnell was able to operate because in PA, keeping people from getting “high” is right up there on the list of priorities. Butchered women, not so much. This has nothing to do with “pro-choice.” We want clinics to be safe. The regulations were already there. They weren’t being enforced because the health and welfare of women ranks way below nabbing drug dealers here. The way that Gosnell was shut down says it all. His office was raided because he was running a “pill mill.” The state was fully aware of his quackery for years and years, but until he got caught being a Doctor Feel Good, nobody gave a damn. You, like most anti-choicers, are twisting facts to fit your agenda. You don’t really think the state was going to fess up and tell the Grand Jury that they just plain don’t give a damn about women’s health, do you? They were left to draw their own conclusions without all the facts.

    • fiona64

      That’s really quite deceptive. Gosnell was able to operate because the
      Departments of Health and State under pro-choice governors didn’t want
      to enforce regulations and do inspections of abortion clinics.

      Citation needed … or, an admission that you are lying. Either one will suffice.

    • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

      Correction: It is not “under prochoice governors.” It was TOM RIDGE prochoice REPUBLICAN Governor. The first complaints I know of were made during his tenure to HIS Health Department. Republican cost cutting at its best.

  • luckymama

    If states’ pro-life laws are do not in fact decrease abortions in the United States, (something that the links do not in fact address btw) then it follows to reason that the decline in abortion availability of late, along with the lower number of abortions reported to the CDC, will correlate with an influx of women to local hospitals from back-alley and self-induced abortions. We are talking a difference of THOUSANDS, and this one example of a mom using obviously poor judgment is your idea of a tidal wave of danger sweeping our nation? Not. Convincing.

    • lady_black

      A hospital is not a good place to go for an abortion. Hospitals are full of sick people, and antibiotic resistant bacteria. Well people should be getting care elsewhere. Medication abortions (under doctor’s supervision but done at the patient’s convenience at home), and clinics that specialize in women’s ambulatory procedures are the way of doing things in the modern era. This doesn’t only apply to abortions, but to any medical procedure performed on a patient who is relatively healthy. There is virtually nothing that cannot be done as an outpatient procedure these days. Both my hysterectomy AND anterior cervical discectomy and fusion were done as outpatient procedures. I had the surgeries, and was discharged the same day, recuperating at home where I wanted to be.

    • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

      Do women have to die in horrible ways again before sadists like you are satisfied?

      Women in Texas going over the border already. We have no idea how many because abortions while not yet criminalized in Texas, have become unavailable for poor women. As has treatment for STDs. Going to be nice to have a lot of babies born who will be blind then they are 20 because STD.
      http://www.texastribune.org/2012/08/12/looking-mexico-alternative-abortion-clinics/

      I was 30 years old when abortion became legal and reliable contraception became real and available. A friend of mine’s Mother died from an illegal abortion when she was 9. My Mother had an illegal abortion. I bought quinine for my Sister so we could do a do-it-yourself abortion. Life for women was an everyday horror show.

      • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

        Like Rachel said = just ask any woman over 65 and you will hear stories that will curl your proverbial hair.

        • expect_resistance

          Yes, life was an everyday horror show for woman, and we need to keep telling these stories. Thank you for sharing the story about your sister. It sounds horrible.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            It was pretty bad. Like I said, what is happening and what I know from experience can happen is keeping me up at night writing essays about it.

      • L-dan

        Just to note in case anyone reading it gets ideas, quinine is a horribly inefficient abortifacient and the difference between the useful dose for this purpose and the toxic dose is too close for comfort. The option the woman in the article took of getting modern abortion drugs, even through the black market, is probably a safer bet these days if legitimate options aren’t feasible.

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          Yep. It was a terrible idea. She ended up getting her stomach pumped because she overdosed. But it worked.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Due to L-Dan’s sensible reminder that there may be readers we are not aware of,

            by “it worked” I mean my Sister miscarried into the toilet at home, in pain and all by herself.

            She never got any medical attention. She could have had an incomplete abortion and died of sepsis a week later. Making abortion and contraception unavailable or hard to get kills women.

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          TY. The point is that my Sister was willing to chance death at 16 rather than tell my Mother or be pregnant. No reliable contraception and no legal abortion equals social conditons that result in dead or maimed women.

          • L-dan

            *nod* I assumed it was likely well before the current drugs were even available if you were 30 when abortion became legal.

            Just didn’t want someone seeing quinine and thinking they’d have an easier time downing a case of tonic water than looking for safer options. I’d hope people would do their research if they came across this in a search…but desperation or circumstance might make that less likely.

            If I didn’t live in a place where the barriers for me are pretty non-existent, I’d be laying in a store of whatever seemed promising and weighing how much risk I was willing to take.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            “weighing how much risk I was willing to take”
            ……………..
            This is what keeps me up at night. I know precisely how desperate and stupid Teen girls are.

            I bought the quinine because I was older and the pharmacist would not challenge me. My Sister fainted from the quinine. I called the hospital and they pumped her stomach. And then the hospital called the cops. So the cops interrogated us because abortion was illegal. It was quite a night.

            It was simply a stroke of luck that I did not kill my Sister. My only Sister.

            So if there are Teens or Others out there reading this, contemplating doing some desperate thing, contact Teen Wire.

            It is a confidential information outlet online. You can ask any question about STDs, Sex, Pregnancy, Contraception and Abortion. And there are organizations that can help Teen girls access abortion.
            http://www.plannedparenthood.org/info-for-teens/

            DO NOT DO WHAT I DID. DO NOT POISON YOURSELF OR SOMEONE ELSE OUT OF DESPERATION.

          • L-dan

            Yike. That’s horrible to have had to deal with. Stories like this are important to remind us of what we shouldn’t have to go back to.

            It’s like the anti-vax crowd. The only reason they can exist is that vaccines have been so successful that we don’t really have a feel for what it was like to live without them.

            The arc for abortion has been even shorter. You don’t have to look very hard to find the stories of horror and desperation that largely (not completely) went away with Roe v Wade.

            But in an era that also supports Holocaust deniers and people who think you can pray cancer away, I suppose it’s just another testament to the human ability to believe what we want to believe despite evidence to the contrary.

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          Access to pharmaceutical drugs was wild and wooly in 1962 compared to now. I believe that quinine cannot be bought over the counter anymore.

      • P. McCoy

        They believe that this is God’s punishment because you choose to be sexual but unwilling to be a mommy ie; willing breeder, madly in love with your zygote even if a rapist put it there, you’re supposed to love HIM, too don’t you know. Or better yet, be willing to commit suicide for the entity because preserving your OWN life would be selfish. Jesus never asked a woman to commit suicide over zygotes, embryos or fetuses. Wish the religious fascists would recognize that.

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          Well said. Thank you.

          • P. McCoy

            The pleasure is all mine for us and about all of us, especially the children and women who are born and need us to fight for their right to life.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I cannot believe we have to fight this battle again. But if we have to, we will fight hard. And win again.

  • Dual citizenship is treason

    Thankfully she didn’t use the old way with a wire hanger or it could have been much much worse !

  • Dual citizenship is treason

    Making abortions illegal only makes them unsafe for poor women! A Rich
    woman will always have safe legal abortion and a nice vacation somewhere
    warm !

    • Mindy McIndy

      Only, rich women don’t have abortions. Rich women have D&Cs.

      • stubbikins

        D&C is a method of abortion.

        • Mindy McIndy

          I am aware of that. I am saying that’s what the rich women call it. They don’t call it abortion.

  • five_by_five

    The Wilkes-Barre Planned Parenthood is less than on hour from this where this lady lives.

    She is an idiot.

    • expect_resistance

      And you are a judgmental pathological liar. Quit making judgements about things you have no knowledge of or no idea about.

      • five_by_five

        Oh, I’m sorry. I didn’t know that you knew this lady personally.

        My bad.

        • expect_resistance

          I don’t and neither do you.

          From the article:

          Whalen’s reasoning about traveling out of state indicates that perhaps she wasn’t aware that she had any options in Pennsylvania. The closest clinic to her home was in Harrisburg, about 75 miles away. A state-mandated 24-hour waiting period would mean Whalen and her daughter would have had to make the drive twice, or they would have had to stay overnight in the Harrisburg area.

          • Mirable

            fivexfive struggles with that whole reading comprehension thing.

          • five_by_five

            No,I’m quite alright with reading comprehension.

            This lady, instead of going to a legit abortion provider, instead decided to go on the internet and play around with drugs that left her daughter in agonizing pain. All because she was too lazy to travel a few towns away.

          • Mirable

            Like I said, you struggle. Poor thing.

          • five_by_five

            Yeah, you’re right.

            This lady made the right choice. What was I thinking?

          • Mirable

            You don’t think. That’s the problem.

          • five_by_five

            Good comeback.

            Hey, but I’m glad you think this lady did the right thing by ordering dangerous drugs on the internet (illegally) without having her daughter see a doctor.

          • Mirable

            Again. I am sorry that you suffer from poor reading comprehension. It must hurt to be so stupid.

          • five_by_five

            Ha ha.

            You just can’t bring yourself to admit that I was right.

            This woman is an idiot.

          • Mirable

            Keep lying to yourself.

          • fiona64

            Sweetie, I promise … as soon as you are right about *anything,* someone will acknowledge it. And it’s cute how you’re upvoting your own posts.

          • five_by_five

            So you’re saying I was wrong.

            Which means that you’re saying that this woman was correct when she choose to order pills online instead of going to the nearest clinic.

            OK. Now I know that you’re an idiot, too.

          • fiona64

            Which means that you’re saying that this woman was correct when she
            choose to order pills online instead of going to the nearest clinic.

            No, it doesn’t. It means that you are in no position to dispense medical advice, and that every damn time you do you are inaccurate. Neither you nor I know the situation of this woman and her daughter, or why they were unable to make two round trips to a clinic 75 miles away. Maybe they have no automobile. Maybe they cannot be away from work that long. YOU DON’T KNOW.

            Stop pretending that you know the circumstances of *anyone* other than yourself.

          • five_by_five

            “and that every damn time you do you are inaccurate.”

            So, I was inaccurate stating that this women should have gone to a doctor for her daughter’s abortion?

            Interesting.

            And her not having a car or her work schedule changes none of that, It still was very stupid of her to take pills over the internet and you know it.

            I was correct.

          • lady_black

            Pills obtained in original packaging from pharmacies outside the USA are as safe as pills obtained here. It doesn’t go into detail exactly where she obtained them, but being that she’s a nurse, I’m sure she knows better than to trust pills not in their original packaging. I’m a nurse. If anyone brings in medication from home into the retirement home, not in the original packaging, or I see pills mixed together in a single bottle, guess what happens to them? They get tossed. Common sense. She says she ordered them from an online pharmacy, not bought them loose in a bottle from some guy selling them out of his van, or at a flea market.

          • HeilMary1

            Black and white fascist you is too morally and mentally impaired to recognize the confusing grey dilemmas that most people deal with.

          • HeilMary1

            Idiot you can’t admit you’re a pompous mother killer who appointed him/herself as a vicious lady parts cop.

          • HeilMary1

            Mother killer you prefers no doctors anywhere provide surgical or pharmaceutical abortions, and you’d be attacking this mother even if she had gotten the drug from an ob/gyn visit. You keep moving the goal posts.

          • HeilMary1

            You’re too lazy to develop a shred of human empathy.

          • Mirable

            You still have to explain why you are at all concerned with the wellbeing of women and girls who *choose* to murder their innocent unborn baybeez.

            Why do clinic regulations matter? If a woman put her kid in the microwave or dismembered her toddler, would you be worried about the treatment she was getting in prison?

            If so, then why should it matter if people like Gosnell are butchering women? Why should it matter that the daughter got sick from the pills – she knew what she was doing, she knew that she was murdering her innocent unborn baby – so, she deserved whatever abdominal pain she got! Heck, she deserved sepsis and death for MURDERING HER UNBORN BABY.

            So, why the fake ‘concern’ for women’s health when they are willfully murdering their unborn baybeez ?

          • expect_resistance

            Yep.

            p.s. I posted some book and documentary recommendations on the other thread.

          • five_by_five

            So she’s an idiot.

            Got it.

          • expect_resistance

            You know nothing.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Maybe she is poor. And maybe has the care of other children and a job that makes that kind of absence impossible. PA is a right to work state. She can be easily fired for two absences.

            You are cruel. And you seem autistic in your inability to relate to people. You find fault for pleasure, I think. That is depraved. Sucks to be you.

          • five_by_five

            oh lookie….excuses for stupidity and placing her daughter’s health in danger.

            Goodie for you Plum Dumper. Goodie for you. I’m glad her inconvenience is a valid excuse in your book.

          • Mirable

            It is a valid excuse. Besides, explain why you are at all concerned about the daughter – she wanted to murder her unborn baby. The health and wellbeing of psycho baybee killers should not worry you. How much sympathy do you have for Charles Manson?

          • lady_black

            She didn’t place her daughter’s health in danger. The medication induced miscarriage just wasn’t complete. That happens with natural miscarriages too. When it happens, it must be completed with a D&C.

          • five_by_five

            If you think taking abortifacient meds while not under the supervision of an OBGYN is not causing higher risk to the daughter, then you are a moron.

            Please stop giving terrible advice to woman seeking abortions.

          • HeilMary1

            You’re the one who would force women to die for non-viable fetuses.

          • expect_resistance

            Coming from a habitual liar it means nothing. Again you know nothing.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Folks like you chased women out of the clinics in some places. Congratulations.

            Now there is no control at all on when or if a woman aborts. L-Dan is correct. Whole thing has turned into a giant uncontrolled experiment to find out how late in a pregnancy abortive drugs can and will work.

            And you clearly express your movement’s desire to kill women who have sex. You have no public health/scientific defense at all. Abortion is a human right. Criminalizing abortion kills and maims women. Illegal abortion is one of chief causes of maternal death worldwide.

          • five_by_five

            “Abortion is a human right.”

            No, it’s not.

            There’s not really much to be said after that.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Yes, actually it is.

          • Mirable

            The right to life does not include the positive right to use another person’s body as life support without their consent.

            You lose.

          • five_by_five

            That’s “another person” is the one who decided to create that life, so they have a responsibility to provide for it until it can provide for itself.

            Responsibility. Heard of it?

            You must be a terrible parent.

          • Mirable

            Then you support forced organ donation under all manner of circumstances, yes? If you injure someone in a car accident, you better give up that kidney should they need it. Responsibility and all.

          • Jennifer Starr

            What would you possibly know about being a parent or raising a child?

          • Mirable

            You must be a terrible parent.

            There are meth addicts living on the street who have up to 7 kids. They are ‘pro-life’. They don’t use contraception aaaand they apparently don’t believe in abortion. Yet they keep having kids.

            Yes, indeed, they know all about *responsibility*, choosing to give the gift of life and all – all the while smoking meth and neglecting their 7 kids (8th on the way)

          • five_by_five

            The “pro-life” meth addict argument.

            You win.

          • Mirable

            There ya go: http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2013/invisible-child/

            I know a woman who has two kids. She’s a party girl. She loves the sex, and she loves being pregnant. After giving birth she wants nothing to do with her kids. Her grandparents are looking after one kid – because she would rather be out partying on her 10,000 off-road vehicle. An ex-bf is looking after another. The little boy that the grandparents are looking after is suffering from severe developmental disorders because he was basically IGNORED for the first two years of his life because his mom preferred to be doing other things. Things that didn’t involve him. He basically spent days staring at the white ceiling above his crib.

            But hey, by your flawless logic, the woman is a good parent, because she chose LIFE over abortion. Just like the drug addicts with 7 kids mentioned in the NY times article.

          • five_by_five

            No, she a bad parent because she should be taking care of her kid – not being a drug addict.

            I know, I know…being responsible is hard. Using contraception is hard. Studying in school is hard.

            Boo hoo.

          • Mirable

            Uh huh. You said that bad parents are exclusively pro choice. Now you are going back and changing your tune. Lulz.

          • five_by_five

            “You said that bad parents are exclusively pro choice.”

            Yeah, I never “said” (or wrote) that. So……

          • Mirable

            Actually, you did.

            five_by_five wrote:

            “”Responsibility. Heard of it?

            You must be a terrible parent.””

            IE, if someone does not ‘take responsibility’ by ‘having the baby’ they are ‘terrible parents’, ergo, someone who ‘has the kid’ = a good, *responsible* parent.

          • five_by_five

            Your inability to read and understand basic logic does not mean that I wrote “bad parents are exclusively pro choice.”

            But please proceed…..

          • Mirable

            That was your implication. That responsibility = having the kid. That irresponsible = being pro-choice.

            I am so sorry that your words have bit you in the ass.

          • five_by_five

            You apparently don’t understand the logical difference between the following sentences.

            1. bad parents are exclusively pro choice
            2. pro-choice parents are bad parents.

            Ask someone if you can’t figure it out on your own.

          • Mirable

            Well here’s an idea – why don’t you stop saying stupid shit, and clarify what you mean from the start, then you won’t find yourself in a position where you have to explain your bullshit.

            Anyways, question.

            Fiona64 is pro-choice. Fiona64 almost died from hypermensis gravidarum during her pregnancy (try suffering from extreme dehydration and nausea for 10 months, I fucking dare you). She has a well adjusted 27 year old son.

            Now, fiona64 is pro choice. Is she a terrible parent? She and I agree on everything. You said that *I* must be a terrible parent. So, by your logic, she is *also* a terrible parent.

            So, is fiona64 a terrible parent or not? yes or no?

          • five_by_five

            I bet the innocent fetuses that fiona64 killed doesn’t think she is a great parent.

            Anyway….my good/bad “parent” comment was in reference to parents that show responsibility to provide for it until it can provide for itself. The pro-choice mentality, in contrast, , the baby is just a parasite and the mom is just an incubator.

            So, yeah, if you cannot grasp the concept that it is a parents responsibility to provide for a child until it can provide for itself, then you are a bad parent.

          • Mirable

            fiona64 has never had an abortion

            Anyway….my good/bad “parent” comment was in reference to parents that show responsibility to provide for it until it can provide for itself. The pro-choice mentality, in contrast, , the baby is just a parasite and the mom is just an incubator.

            Yeah so basically, fiona64 = a terrible parent, because she CHOSE to have a kid, and she CHOSE to risk her life to have him, and she selfishly CHOSE to raise him and now he is a well adjusted and successful 27 year old.

            Yeah, fiona64 is a horrid parent all right. I am glad that you were able to suss that one out. Have you ever thought of getting a job working for the FBI or something, sussing out people’s CHARACTER? Cuz you’re really GOOD AT IT!

          • HeilMary1

            You are the one treating all women as disposable incubators here, jackass.

          • lady_black

            Whoever said fiona64 ever had an abortion? What was said was that she has a well-adjusted 27 year old son. Whoever said fetuses “think?” Of course you believe fetuses “think.” You believe YOU “think.” Your comments show that your reading comprehension is poor at best, and you think implying something isn’t that same thing as saying it verbatim. You’re a troll, and you use troll tricks.

          • HeilMary1

            Your own black and white reasoning coming back at ya!

          • expect_resistance

            You can’t even remember the lies you’ve told or the crap-shit you post. Try a cheat-sheet to remember.

          • five_by_five

            Hey, you’re free to scroll up and quote where I wrote “bad parents are exclusively pro choice”

            Good luck

          • expect_resistance

            Obviously telling the truth is hard for you.

          • HeilMary1

            But you oppose contraception.

          • five_by_five

            Since when?

          • HeilMary1

            Since forever, probably. You’ve lied about everything else to score worthless points.

          • lady_black

            And why exactly do you want “bad parents” to bring kids into the world? I *should be* tall, rich, young and thin. But I’m not. It’s not particularly helpful to say a drug addict *should be* a good parent. She isn’t a good parent. She’s a drug addict.

          • expect_resistance

            Yeah, and you’re a terrible person. So what.

          • HeilMary1

            Sex isn’t the intentional invitation for killer fetuses to take up deadly parasitical residence.

          • lady_black

            Nobody has any “responsibility” to a fetus. I know you’re all about punishing women for enjoying sex, but it doesn’t work that way. No one is obliged to provide the use of an organ, or any other body tissues for the use of another, and it doesn’t matter how that need comes about. Sex is no more “consent to gestate” than a dinner date is “consent to sex.” Which is to say, not at all.

          • expect_resistance

            Wrong again! Plum is right, abortion is a human right.

          • five_by_five

            link please

          • expect_resistance

            No link necessary.

          • five_by_five

            *No link available.

            FTFY.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I gave you the link. You did not read it. Sexpig. Rapist. Filth.

          • HeilMary1

            Self-defense is a human right, and since pregnancies have grossly maimed and murdered billions of women throughout history, ALL abortions are self-defense.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Yes, it is. And this is what can be said about it below, Stupid Cruel Troll.
            Now, who should I credit? A sneering uninformed lout? Or the United Nations? No contest.
            http://www.un.org/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=A/66/254

          • lady_black

            I don’t need medical supervision to take pills. I manage to do that all by myself. Imagine that! I’ve been doing that since I was 12 years old. As a nurse, this mother had access to the dosage information she needed. It simply didn’t do the entire job. This is the wave of the future. As states restrict abortion more and more, the treatment will change from “abortion” to “miscarriage management.” This is apparently what your ilk wants, so stop bellyaching, and stop treating women like toddlers.

          • five_by_five

            “I don’t need medical supervision to take pills.”

            Ha. I guess this girl didn’t either.

            Oh wait, she did. What terrible advice.

          • L-dan

            You know, I somehow missed that she was a nurse. Damn, there really was no reason to prosecute this, was there? Getting drugs off the net can be skeevy, but I’m going to hope that a nurse was aware of the ways to be more certain that you’ve got what you paid for.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Midwives and nurses are doing abortions and other care in CA now.
            WRONG.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You need this for your fetish. Click it and you will get release and relief of the kind you so obviously need.
            http://www.filthysextube.com/

          • five_by_five

            Too chickenshit to keep your original comment up?

          • expect_resistance

            Whatever forced-birther misogynist troll.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I am a writer. I always go for the most effective version of a comment.

          • HeilMary1

            You’re the pompous mother killer here, creepo.

          • HeilMary1

            You’re the boulder throwing idiot ayatollah here.

        • fiona64

          Funny … you certainly behave as though *you* know her personally …

    • lady_black

      The Wilkes Barre Planned Parenthood (like MOST clinics) do not provide abortions. It took me all of five seconds to find this information. Now what were you saying about being an idiot again??

      • five_by_five

        Derp derp….yeah I looked it up on their website before I posted my comment and I know they only do referrals.

        Going for the initial eval at the WB clinic (or whatever clinic) would have been step one. Step two would be the actual surgical abortion OR medical abortion depending on the initial exam and circumstances.

        But, this woman didn’t do that, did she? She went rogue idiot and ordered some pills on the internet. She was lazy. She was stupid. And she placed her daughter’s health at risk for it.

        • fiona64

          And she was put in that position because of policies that people like YOU think are appropriate.

          Derp, derp indeed.

        • lady_black

          Yeah? And she could have merely called them and asked for a referral. Why would you first drive one hour away, one hour back, two hours away and back, then have to return the next day (or stay there overnight) and drive back two hours. While I may or may not agree that taking pills you ordered over the internet is a bad idea (depending on where and from whom you get them), the same thing can happen if the medication is prescribed and given locally. Medication doesn’t always work. Why she’s an idiot is even mentioning the pills in the first place. I would have said I thought she miscarried. Then there wouldn’t have been a problem. Her daughter would have needed a D&C to finish the abortion, which she would have needed anyway. So no harm done. For the medication to cause cramping is a normal side effect as the body attempts to miscarry the pregnancy. That’s accomplished by cramping, Einstein. In most cases the drugs would work. Occasionally a medication miscarriage does need to be completed with a surgical abortion, and occasionally a natural miscarriage ends up that way too.

          • five_by_five

            You don’t quite understand how most abortions work, do you?

            I’m not sure about where you live, but where I live before they give out abortifacient, the doctors do a full exam. It usually includes an ultrasound (oh the horror). That’s not to shame the women either…it’s so they aren’t giving abortifacient to people who are past the 49 day window. I know, I know…those evil doctors not allowing woman to medically abort after 49 days.

            And not mentioning the cause of her daughter’s problems to the treating physicians is just looking for more problems. And why? — just to cover her ass for something stupid she did?

            Great advice Ms. black. Solid work.

          • lady_black

            There isn’t a 49 day window. Medication abortions can be done up to 63 days. The cause of the problem was an incomplete miscarriage. Not some pills. Please bear in mind, this was weeks later. You don’t quite understand how reproductive issues work, do you?

          • five_by_five

            “Medication abortions can be done up to 63 days.”

            What country do you live in?

            This is the United States in case you forgot.

          • lady_black

            Outdated FDA regimens call for larger than needed doses, and a narrow than needed window. Since then, we’ve discovered that medication abortions can safely be done up to nine weeks gestation (63 days) and requires much lower doses. That is today’s best practices regimen, as opposed to the FDA regimen of fifteen plus years ago. That’s the nature of medicine. It far outpaces the glacial FDA. Doctors ought to be doing what works best for the patient, not what long outdated information says.

          • five_by_five

            So you admit that you were wrong. Medical abortion CANNOT be done after 49 days….in this country.

          • lady_black

            Yes it can be done, IN THIS COUNTRY. Doctors do not have to follow FDA guidelines.

          • five_by_five

            Yeah, if they like being sued.

          • lady_black

            Medication abortions CAN BE DONE in this country, up to 63 days gestation. They are routinely done. It has nothing to do with “being sued.”

          • five_by_five

            “They are routinely done.”

            link please

          • lady_black

            I tried to post a link and it got moderated out. Just Google medication abortion information. It’s 63 days (nine weeks).

          • Mirable

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11328223

            http://www.uptodate.com/contents/abortion-pregnancy-termination-beyond-the-basics

            Early medication abortion usually involves taking two different
            medications to end an early pregnancy. In the United States, early
            medication abortion may be an option if you are less than 7 to 9 weeks
            (49 to 63 days) pregnant (clinics vary in their policies on this).
            Medication can also be used for women who are further along in their
            pregnancy (14 or more weeks), but for this type of abortion, the woman
            is in the hospital under the supervision of a doctor or nurse. To
            determine if you can have an early medication abortion, use this
            calculato

    • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

      Not an idiot. The wave of the future because of stupids like you.
      http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116399/abortion-texas-survives-miscarriage-management

  • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

    Laugning my ass off. ALL THAT WE HAVE SAID TO STUPID 5×5 is supported by this article in New Republic.
    http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116399/abortion-texas-survives-miscarriage-management

    “Minto can’t come right out and tell his patients to obtain the ulcer drug misoprostol—or its brand-name variant, Cytotec—but he doesn’t have to. It is common knowledge in the Valley that misoprostol induces miscarriages. And it’s readily available: If you have a passport, you can walk over the border and buy the drug from a Mexican pharmacy without a prescription. If you can’t cross the border, you can buy black-market pills from bustling flea markets or dusty fortune tellers’ shops.

    And if the drugs don’t cause a complete miscarriage, Minto lets his patients know that they can come back for “miscarriage management.” Minto estimates that he has seen over 200 patients since the law went into effect, about 100 of whom have returned to resolve miscarriages with a legal outpatient procedure known as a dilation and curettage or D&C.”

    • L-dan

      The sad thing is that misoprostol is only used up to (iirc) the 9th week. This is partly the usual erring on the side of caution, which isn’t a bad idea when you are treating people and have a full range of options at your disposal.

      With the tightening of restrictions, we are going to see a lot more people using the drug at later points. We’ll be getting a lot more data about its safety and efficacy when used in later abortions, albeit under very uncontrolled conditions. It will be a big, uncontrolled, experiment with a lot of incomplete miscarriages to manage.

      • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

        Good analysis of the situation. Scary too.

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