An Abortion Counselor Films Her Abortion to Show Others It’s Not Scary

Emily Letts, an abortion counselor, decided to film her own abortion “to show it wasn’t scary—and that there is such a thing as a positive abortion story.” She added that her “hope is that someone somewhere will see this and it will provide some guidance, strength, support, or whatever else they need in that moment. I want to tell that person that you are not alone. Having an abortion does not make you a bad person, a bad woman, a bad mother. Having an abortion does not make you guilty. It is simply one step in your reproductive story. You are not alone. I am here for you. We are all here for you.”

  • Clarepl

    My comment is probably not going to be very welcome on what’s clearly a Planned Parenthood site but it’s seems a good idea to start with the obvious. Why is this young woman being paid to advocate for patients at an abortion clinic when she cannot (or will not) follow her own advice? She describes herself as a patient advocate. Therefore her job would (or should) include providing patients with information on how to obtain birth control if they need it and instruction on using it properly. Unlike some of the patients she is paid to “advocate” for Ms. Letts (as an employee of an abortion clinic) almost certainly has health insurance which includes birth control and coworkers who can answer questions she might have for herself or the patients she is supposed to be helping. I’d say the chance that this was anything other than an planned pregnancy is probably about 0.00% Maybe Emily thought if she deliberately got pregnant then filmed her abortion she would do exactly what the title says… “show others it’s not scary”. I just hope no one else at the clinic put her up to the idea. Think about it. If Emily was so clueless that dispite everything she’s learned and everything she teaches at work she had sex without using birth control, never asked any of her super supportive coworkers for assistance in obtaining Plan B and then was SURPRISED to find herself pregnant, would they keep her as an employee? Most especially would they keep her on as a patient advocate when she obviously has no regard for what she’s learning about preventing pregnancy at work? Will any patient who recognises Emily trust her to provide advice competently when she doesn’t listen to it herself. I like to read about controversial issues from the point of view of both the far left and the far right and I’m honestly astounded that across the board everyone seems to take it for granted that this pregnancy was honestly not planned. Emily apparently thought that her film and her ability to tell patients “I’ve been through it” would make her more effective as an advocate. This was a sadly misguided decision. Patients may sympathize with her, but they are not going to trust her to advise them very well if she doesn’t consider it worth following herself.

    • Dez

      Where does it say it’s a PP site?

      • Clarepl

        Nowhere, that I’ve found. But after several years of following stories here and how they are reported, I think there is a connection and that this is just PP under a different name.

        • Plum Dumpling

          This is a Planned Parenthood site below at the link. If any young people reading this would like get accurate information in confidence about SEX, STDs, birth control, pregnancy and/or abortion, this is the site to go to:

        • Arekushieru

          Just like I think there’s a connection between Live Action News and that it’s just another name under which CPCs operate? More proof of the latter than for what you claim. Sorry.

          • Clarepl

            Live Action News and “Crisis Pregnancy Centers”? Yes, you’re probably right.

        • Dez

          So you have no actual proof. Why make any assumptions until you do?

          • Clarepl

            No, Dez obviously I have no proof. I certainly never said I did. I don’t know the young woman

          • Dez

            Then do not make unfounded accusations. It’s dishonest and we will call you on it.

          • Clarepl

            Unfounded accusations about what son? If there’s one thing that hasn’t happened the past few days, it’s anyone calling me (or anyone else pointing out the danger to patients from an honestly clueless Emily) out. I’ve been called names, other people have been called worse but that hardly contributes to an intellegent discussion between people over ten. There are two possibilities here. First (most likely) Emily counselled patients properly and carefully planned her pregnancy later blaming N.F.P…… then the much less likely alternative: Everything Emily said is true and she was a phenomenal liability to the clinic and it’s patients for a year. Claim as much offense as you want… call me whatever you want but you can’t unthink what by now is clear to everyone. My 2014 visit back to rhrealitycheck has been a trip. I’ll now be off to debate the far right for awhile.

          • Dez

            I haven’t called you any names. I asked you to back up your claims. If you cant, then do not be surprised that someone called you out. Stop whining and be an adult. You made a claim that was untrue.

        • CT14

          Because supporting PP couldn’t be a logical or rational point of view? Only PP could possibly support women’s rights?

          Try again.

    • Arekushieru

      Does the article also state WHY Emily wasn’t using birth control when she conceived? After all, you clearly stated that it said she wasn’t using birth control AT THAT TIME. You do realize that there are many reasons why women may not be using birth control. She was on different medications, she was ill, etc…. After all, even though the majority of women who report having an abortion say they used some form of contraception, it is typically not consistent, let alone perfect, use? Thanks.

      • Clarepl
        • Arekushieru

          Then why judge before knowing the facts?

          • Clarepl

            Well, as I said I find it pretty hard to believe that a woman who had been working with patients facing crisis pregnancies and patients wanting to avoid pregnancy in the short term future would be so totally ignorant about how to do exactly that. And apparently ignorant about how to access that information as well as why such information would be important to a sexually active woman. Being informed about this is supposed to be her job and it’s not as if it was a new job. She had been there for a year when she found out she was pregnant. Anybody who got birth control advice from Emily (who apparently was using some form of the rhythm method) should really have another opportunity to speak to someone at Cherry Hill who is a little more knowledgable about the subject. I know you believe that this pregnancy was genuinely un planned but certainly you agree that patients at the Cherry Hill facility deserved better advice than anything Emily could have provided if she preached what she practiced. I think if she was really that clueless some patient or co worker would have notified a Doctor well before a year had elapsed. Then they would have had to make a decision to either retrain Emily or let her go. This is why I really think this was a carefully planned pregnancy. She understood that her patients wanted actual, legitimate birth control resources and instruction, while her own plans were opposite. She couldn’t possibly have flown under the radar for that long, in that field, if she believed sexual activity at twenty five using no birth control was going to result in anything other than a pregnancy.

          • Plum Dumpling

            She was using Natural Family Planning.

          • Clarepl

            yes exactly and Natural Family Planning is a practice famous for failure. She’d been there for a year and certainly knew there were multiple options from THIS century, any of which her co workers would have been happy to advise her on.

          • Plum Dumpling

            She is not entitled to reject hormonal contraception for her own health? You are a rapist. And you are working hard to convince me that rape of women in the service of morality is justifiable. You are disgusting and you skeeve me.

          • Clarepl

            oh wow…..
            obviously she is entitled to reject hormonal contraception. The Dr’s at her facility would have been happy to help her find a non hormonal form of contraception if she was worried about hormones damaging her health. And although the Pope says NFP is the only moral form of contraception (and there are some families who practice it) the vast majority of Catholic women (myself included) use something more reliable. The point obviously is that if Emily really wanted to avoid pregnancy she had multiple coworkers, (including physicians) who would have been able to help. Instead (if you believe her) she went to “friends” instead of referring to the facility approved advice which (I hope) is what she had been providing to patients for the past year. As for the whole Twilight Zone “rapist” thing, I’m not going to try to figure that logic out. Good luck to you Plum Dumpling.

          • Plum Dumpling

            “oh wow…..
            obviously she is entitled to reject hormonal contraception.”

            You trashed her for doing so. You think YOU should be in charge of her sexual/family life because of your imagined superiority. You are a rapist and a slaver.

            Unless, of course, you do not believe in criminalizing abortion and/or legislating it out of existence. If so, I have no quarrel with you. Then you will simply be a prude and a prat. Lots of those around.

          • Clarepl

            Here are some examples of Non Hormonal Birth Control and that came from google…. obviously the Dr’s at Cherry Hill could have provided Emily with more detailed information on whatever form of Non Hormonal Birth Control she was interested in; and doubtless did share it with her to provide to their patients. I will also take a second to remind you that expecting patients at clinics such as Cherry Hill to have advocates familiar with Non Hormonal Birth control (other than NFP) is neither prudish nor prattish, it’s routine consumer advocacy.

          • Plum Dumpling

            You are an idiot. Fa la la la la.

          • Arekushieru

            You, of course, missed the point. If someone believes that NFP is the only moral form of contraception, it’s not usually because they just came to that conclusion after making some rational decisions about their life. It’s more often because they’ve been brainwashed into believing that sort of lie. Considering that, shaming someone for taking the only option they believe is available to them is heinous to the Nth degree and IS the point Plum was attempting to get you to understand.

            Besides that, the other point you somehow missed happens to be extremely obvious, as well. Quite often on this site we have discussed the failure of a medical practitioner to treat his/her patients in accordance with the governing health regulations, rather than their own wishes BUT (and here’s what leads us to the point you missed) that has nothing to do with how a medical practitioner takes care of his/her OWN health. So, all the while she was taking care of her own health in the way she deemed fit, she COULD VERY WELL HAVE been giving the correct medical advice to her own patients. So, here’s the point, you are arguing that the personal decisions of one person should be held to the same standard as the employer-driven advice that they are mandated to provide to their patients. I don’t know any other employee whose personal and professional life would be held to these same stringent standards, yet, upon failing to do so, meet with such condemnation and shaming.

            (What you’ve also [deliberately?] ignored is some very salient points made not only by my fellow posters but also as part of an inherently logical conclusion: Maybe no one would insert an IUD for Ms. Letts for various reasons. maybe she is allergic to latex; and, finally, maybe it really isn’t any of your concern how she got pregnant or whether or not it is an unplanned pregnancy, in the first place. So, please stop. All this faux concern is seriously nauseating.)

            Lastly, Plum’s logic on that latter remark is actually really quite easy to follow: You are treating Emily Letts differently from any other employee. And the only reason we can provide is that her personal decision involved an abortion and her professional circumstances involve counselling patients on sex education. (Maybe especially so, but not only in anti-choice minds is it that pregnancy and sex are equivalent.) And that’s when the policing begins. Dress it up however you want, but that is exactly what you are doing. In that event, you are clearly telling women what they can and cannot do with their bodies, which is a tool used by rapists and anti-choicers.

          • CT14

            That’s pretty snotty, Clarepl.

            She was using birth control. Maybe hormonal birth control makes her ill. Maybe her OB (if she doesn’t use PP) refuses to put in an IUD in a woman who hasn’t yet given birth. Maybe the condom broke.

            You don’t know; yet you’re happy to judge and decide whether or not she deserves to have a job or have an abortion.

            You kinda suck.

          • Clarepl

            wow, your bosses have you guys jumping on me today. The article I linked to quoted Ms. Letts saying she wasn’t using birth control. It is not snotty to say that a young woman who goes to Cherry Hill Women’s Center for advice on birth control deserves to get accurate advice. It is not also not snotty to say that the doctors using their medical licences to practice at Cherry Hill should expect employees to council THEIR patients competently. A patient’s right to correct answers to her questions is more important that Ms. Letts right to a job at that particular facility. If she is not interested in asking the Dr’s at Cherry Hill how to council THEIR patients or read the literature they provide then, yes, it is unreasonable for her to be employed there. The doctors have to consider the well being of their patients and their own malpractice risks before they take on the responsibility of employing someone who won’t listen to them.

          • Arekushieru

            No one, except maybe yourself ‘has’ us jumping on you. Really, if you think Emily needs to take responsibility for things, certainly you can take responsibility for messes you, YOURSELF, create. Otherwise it’s nothing but hypocrisy that we have come to expect from people like you.

          • Clarepl

            Obviously I need to take responsibility for messes I create. If my employer provides me with literature and resources to provide to their clients and I deliberatly ignore it and advise the clients otherwise than of course I deserve to lose my job.

          • Arekushieru

            And she is deliberately ignoring it, HOW? PERSONAL and PROFESSIONAL. Learn the difference. Kthx.

          • Arekushieru

            Still didn’t answer my question. Which was pretty obvious that you weren’t going to do from the beginning. Why judge before knowing the facts behind why she STOPPED (and yes, stopped, being as it is obviously the operative word, *especially*, after reading what she said in that article you linked to, ALONE) using birth control?

          • LostInUnderland

            Maybe she choose not to talk about the circumstances of her pregnancy because they are not relevant. She may have deliberately chosen to leave out anything pre-pregnancy because she has dealt with so many women with so many different stories that she choose to frame her narrative starting with pregnancy no matter how that pregnancy came about. Either way, so what? You have no right to remark on her competency since she is not your employee (as far as I know). Your only reason is to judge her. We get that you don’t like her. Enough said. I’m not even sure what you are trying to accomplish. Would you like her to get fired, perhaps?

    • Suba gunawardana

      Considering that the message was “Abortion is not scary” (NOT “how to have safe sex”), why is prior use of contraception relevant at all?

      I agree that “how to have safe sex” is an important lesson. That however, is NOT the purpose here. This video was intended to dispel myths about abortion per se.

    • JulieCAC

      It’s part of being human: making mistakes, and facing the consequences. She had sex without contraception, became pregnant, and had to decide what to do.

      We all get carried away and do something we would normally not do. I think this sort of experience has the potential of making her a better counselor.

      Personally, I always used birth control and never got pregnant… Until that time when I didn’t, and I did. I am fallible and I make mistakes, and that makes me more compassionate towards others who have done the same.

      • Clarepl

        lets say for instance Emily never got pregnant at all. She went on using NFP and when a patient she was supposed to be advocating for asked her about birth control and mentioned that she was concerned about hormones Emily shared her own experience and said “Well, I’m concerned about hormones too so I use NFP”. So the poor girl goes right ahead and does the same thing figuring that Cherry Hill Women’s Center was providing her with good advice and two months later she is pregnant. Maybe she has an abortion and everything goes fine, maybe she has an abortion and has complications, maybe she has a miscarriage with or without additional complications, maybe she has an uneventful pregnancy, maybe she had a horrible pregnancy and suffers from H.E.R the whole time. Maybe she has an easy delivery, maybe she has complications, maybe she dies, Maybe she has a healthy baby who she cannot afford to raise, maybe she loses the child to the adoption industry, maybe she ends up having to leave school to raise her child, maybe the child is fine or maybe he is severly disabled for any number of reasons. What are you going to say to that girl? “Wooops! we’re human! We’re fallible and make mistakes but don’t worry…. we’re compassionate!” No matter what they do, they cannot turn time back to before she took advice from Emily. A personal injury lawyer could retire on this scenario. What happens to the facility? Does it have to close down? How many people are going to lose their jobs, their access to birth control, their medical licenses? All because Emily couldn’t be bothered to read the phamplet on non hormonal birth control options right there in the waiting room. These are in no way unreasonable questions. If (and again that’s a big “if”) but if Emily really wanted to avoid pregnancy and was preaching what she practiced when she “advocated for” multiple patients over the course of a year, then that clinic is going to have to review the records of all those people, see what she told them and provide those people with the information they should have gotten in the beginning.

  • Maria

    Clare, I agree that this video seems misguided. Your points about Emily working at an abortion clinic yet not heading the information available to her is right on. Also I feel her demeanor before and during the procedure was off putting. Yes we don’t want women to feel guilty making decisions about their own bodies. However Planned Parenthood does not advocate abortion as birth control but a procedure available for unplanned pregnancies.
    I do not feel this video will comfort anyone who has made the decision to have an abortion. Also Emily’s statement that she know she can make a baby seemed immature and insensitive.

    • Clarepl

      Right, common sense says that abortion is for unplanned pregnancies and not considered a form of birth control, but I can’t shake the idea that this was planned a long time ago. Can’t you see the Dr’s at the facility saying to each other “Who hired her?” and “How is she advising our patients?” On the one hand I’m sure they don’t want to fire her for having an abortion at their facility but (especially considering her job) they’ve got to be a little nervous about sending her out to council anyone else. Obviously she doesn’t consider even their most basic literature worth reading. And that’s assuming that it really was unplanned. If (as I suspect) it was planned, then they have a whole different set of worries, starting with her total lack of appreciation for the risks of undergoing any surgery. It’s like a school teacher who doesn’t know what continent he lives on. It’s easy enough to answer his question, but you’ve got to worry about why it was necessary.

      • Maria

        As a former high school counselor and teacher you are right on about practicing what you preach otherwise you lose credibility. I don’t think this video alleviates a women’s feelings about something she has decided to do. If that is truly Emily’s intent, she seems to lack insight and empathy for the women she works with. I assume the clinic where she works is well aware of this video and gave her permission to share it. That needs to be addressed.

        • Plum Dumpling

          How should it be addressed? You did not read what the administrator of Emily Letts’ women’s clinic wrote here?
          You are an ugly pig. I wish I could give you the bitchslapping you so richly deserve.

      • Plum Dumpling

        You are really paranoid and creepy. Ewwww.

      • Arekushieru

        All surgeries are risky. In fact dental surgery is more risky than having a legal abortion. Hmm.

    • Arekushieru

      Abortion is birth control. It controls when birth happens. Planned Parenthood just doesn’t advocate abortion as the primary form of birth control because it is much cheaper and less risky to use other forms of birth control than have repeated surgeries for abortions.

      Her demeanour, level of maturity and sensitivity (or lack thereof) is actually irrelevant. Her only purpose was to show people that the procedure itself wasn’t scary, should not make you feel guilty, like a bad person, a bad woman, a bad mother. That’s it, that’s all. Please read more carefully, next time.

      • Maria

        I hear what you are saying but do not agree that Planned Parenthoods’ agenda is the cost. Yes abortion can be more risky than other forms of birth control. For women it is the demonizing of the procedure. Showing a Emily going through the procedure doesn’t alleviate all the negative backlash that anti-abortionists fling at women. Until others butt out of women’s personal decisions to manage their own lives and bodies, the guilt and bad feelings will persist I am afraid.

        • Arekushieru

          And you are doing far less to keep women from being demonized than Emily, herself, is. By stating that only certain kinds of women can share their abortion stories, you invoke the right-wing, anti-choice mentality that “(certain types of) abortion are the only moral abortion”, which doesn’t do much to lift the stigma surrounding abortion wouldn’t you agree?

          Finally, you are aware that Planned Parenthood organizations are non-profit, right?

  • Clarepl

    Nobody should be asked to make a committment to adoption before their baby is born. And not until they’ve had an opportunity to parent if they want to. Agencies like Gladney and Bethany (both of which have demonstrated stunning cruelty to women who made the mistake of asking about adoption options before delivery) routinely “match” young expectant mothers with “waiting couples” then spend the rest of the pregnancy convincing the mother that her child is actually better off with another mother. “You considered abortion then changed your mind? Adoption is the ONLY option! You considered adoption then changed your mind!!…. This couple is devestated because of your selfishness!”. There are arguments about risks for depression, eating disorders and suicide after abortion. But there are no arguments about the same risks for bio mothers following adoption. It’s higher than for women who abort, alarmingly high. I suggest you read “The Baby Catchers” by Kathryn Joyce also here is a site worth looking at Granted, I’m no fan of Emily. I’m pretty sure she was planning this career move long before she conceived, but this is obviously very much an atypical situation. Just because a woman at one point considered abortion or adoption doesn’t mean she can’t sucessfully parent, if she wants to. Don’t be too quick to push an unmarried expectant mom into committing to the multi billion dollar adoption industry and for the love of God don’t go dragging Mr. and Mrs. All American into the delivery room to turn a woman’s delivery experience into an opportunity to bully and coerce her into surrenduring HER precious child. If a childless woman has a crushed heart than she is not going to fix it by crushing the heart of another woman by taking her child away. Instead, ideally she could provide a home for a child who really needs one, a child waiting for adoption through the foster care system. (Ironic isn’t it, the ethical way to adopt is absolutely free in all 50 states). Don’t flatter yourself that you’ve “saved” the baby if you destroy the mother in the process. Take a look at that link before you crow too much about adoption as a fix all. Yes, there are women who carry to term and then choose adoption for reasons other than poverty and lack of support. But for the vast majority of mothers of loss to adoption, support and encouragement is what they needed, not browbeating and not seeing their motherhood sacrificed to finance to some lawyer’s retirement fund.

  • Arekushieru

    No, not any more selfish than a poor single mother continuing a costly and dangerous pregnancy at the expense of her existing children’s lives. That, in fact, is greed. Which is a sin. After all, imposing your views on others in order that YOU may live as YOU wish to live is the very DEFINITION of greed. That’s the main thrust of anti-choice arguments, as well. And yet your ilk claims to be so Christian.

    Evil is remaining uncaring about whether something harms or benefits others. A woman who terminates a pregnancy based on her knowledge of her OWN capabilities regarding parenting/raising a child, the kind of lifestyle that would most likely surround the child as he/she matures, the injustices of the adoption/foster care system, etc… is definitely not uncaring about the potential child’s future. But to force the birth of a child knowing FULL WELL that the child will most likely suffer as a result is exactly that, E.V.I.L.

    (So far we have concluded that Pro-‘Lifers’ are sinners, greedy and evil. Let’s see what else we can come up with, for them, eh?)

    Wrong is the opposite of right. Since everyone has the right to choose who uses their body and when and how it is used, via ongoing and informed consent and NO ONE has the right to exist at all costs, I would say that Pro-Choicers are the RIGHT ones, while Pro-‘Life’, who encourage the latter (wrong), are, indeed. the WRONG ones. (Oops, came up with something else, again, after all, didn’t we?)

    Heartless? So, a woman who has a late-term abortion because fetal abnormalities severely compromise its ability to survive outside the uterus and would simply cause the fetus to suffer during its short life is being heartless? You have made your position clear on this matter. To you it doesn’t matter whether a fetus has a heartbeat or not, so, obviously, you would even be against a late-term abortion. Even for reasons like that one. Preventing suffering or forcing someone to suffer, which is TRULY the more HEARTLESS position? Hint: It’s NOT the former. Oops.

    Pathetic? That depends on your definition for pathetic.

    Abortion is not murder. A fetus is NOT a baby.

    Pregnancy is NOT a mere ‘inconvenience’. It is the fucking third deadliest medical condition for women WORLDWIDE. Even if it were the safest medical condition for women, denying women the same rights that everyone else has simply makes an even BIGGER case for why RAPE should become LEGAL. THAT makes YOUR ilk disgusting.

    And, ya wanna also know what’s more disgusting than abortion? Childbirth. Watching a video on that nearly traumatized me for life. Seeing an abortion, however, left very little impression (and considering what a squeamish stomach I have, that’s saying a LOT).

    It’s also more likely that that child could have grown up to become a drug addict, common criminal, a bully, a domestic abuser, etc…. It’s also more likely that that person could have become the next Hitler (someone whose policies your ilk supports, not ours, because he was anti-choice NOT Pro-Choice) than the next doctor. Oops, again.

    Adoption isn’t all the hearts and flowers you THINK it is. It’s traumatic for the woman and it can be just as traumatic for the child. Never heard of the adoptive parents that wanted to ‘return’ their child because they considered them ‘defective’? It’s a much more common theme than your oh-so-obvious ignorance has you understanding. Adoptive parents quite often operate under the assumption that the adopted child should be ‘grateful’ to them. Or, as in the case of my friend whose adoptive parents adopted her and her late older brother, treated their younger, biological, daughter better than her older siblings, especially my friend. Besides, there wouldn’t BE such a long waiting list if those potential parents waiting for their ‘pwecious, white, healthy, cute widdle BAAYYYYBBBEEZ’, actually adopted some of the older children with behavioural issues BEFORE they aged out of the system. Lastly, a woman is not a broodmare to be used as unpaid slave labour just so some greedy infertile couples can live as they wish to live. Too disgusting for words.

    A child is not a consequence. For all your ilk’s talk about how ‘pwecious baybeez’ are, you certainly insist on treating them as punishments for women who have consensual sex for purposes other than procreation. And one of the ‘consequences’ of having an unplanned pregnancy is to have an abortion. AW.

    So, if a woman doesn’t have unprotected sex, is it still her fault? If not, how can it be a woman’s fault if she didn’t have protected sex. since the former makes it obvious that pregnancy can happen REGARDLESS of whether or not you used birth control? But, if so, then why associate fault with unprotected sex in the FIRST PLACE??? You people really are confusing.

    A woman is responsible for the way her DNA designed her vagina as the entry point for sperm to cross before meeting and fertilizing an egg to form a zygote that first becomes a blastocyst, then an embryo that drives ITSELF to implant into the uterus and whose OWN DNA makes it dependent upon the uterus for survival? Seriously? If you can’t see how that argument is INHERENTLY hypocritical or, even, how hypocritical it is when it comes to comparing how differently women and men are treated as regards this particular matter, there is NO HOPE for you people to ever be cured of your misogyny.

    I take it back, the ones I am most completely and utterly disgusted with in this world are people like YOU, especially considering that YOU are the ones who wish to force childbirth on a woman and YOU are the ones who wish to use women as broodmares in order to acquire their services as unpaid slave labour for infertile couples. *BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRFFFFFFFFFFFFF!*

  • Suba gunawardana

    Where’s your concern for EXISTING children being starved, neglected, abused? What are they, chopped liver?

  • Suba gunawardana

    To all who clamor about “extinguishing the potential for a new life”:

    Who deserves real consideration?

    -Those who never had a life because their lives were terminated before birth (by human hand or by nature), Or
    -Those who suffer a horrible life of neglect and abuse because they were born to parents unable/unwilling to care for them?

    The latter group is HERE, and suffering. Why do they get less consideration than the former, who are NOT suffering?

  • Plum Dumpling

    Flagged for egregious abuse of prochoice men and women.

  • Plum Dumpling

    I think it is important in dealing with the fetusfreaks who are showing up here these days for us to define rape and remind folks that rape is a crime.

    The term rape originates in the Latin rapere, from raptus, “to snatch, to grab, to carry off”. The term has come to mean, since approximately the 14th century, “to seize and take away by force”. In Roman law the carrying off of a woman by force, with or without intercourse, constituted “raptus”. In Medieval English law the same term could refer to either kidnapping or rape in the modern sense of “sexual violation.”

    The 1998 International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda defines it as “a physical invasion of a sexual nature committed on a person under circumstances which are coercive.” That is what Roe v. Wade defends American women from, that is, being coerced by the State to give birth or abort.

    Our Constitution is very clear that we have a right to our own bodies and our security without coercion from the State. “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated …” It is illegal for the State to seize my body without due process for the benefit of the State. Our Founders thought this was so important they made it the Fourth Amendment.

  • Plum Dumpling

    “Selfish, evil, wrong, disgusting, heartless, and pathetic.”
    I am still going to get an abortion if I need or want one. Your opinion about that is de trop. You probably should not have an abortion.

  • Jennifer Starr

    That baby could’ve been a dancer, a CANCER RESEARCHER, a doctor, a scientist, a singer, a motivational speaker, a therapist, etc. You just destroyed its chance at ever making a difference, ever building upon our knowledge, or ever even breathing. That baby could’ve grown up, helped pull a friend from depression, helped bring love and joy into the lives of others.

    If that’s the argument we’re using, that same baby could’ve grown up to become the next Jeffrey Dahmer or Ted Bundy, and brought untold misery and pain into the lives of others.

    Ever heard of adoption? You wouldn’t have had to raise the baby or pay for its life, you could’ve given it to some woman with a crushed heart because she couldn’t have her own baby. The waiting list for adoptions is huge, and you just destroyed somebody’s chance. You just heartlessly murdered a BABY.

    Crushed heart, my ass. There are over 100,000 kids in foster care who have been cleared for adoption and the state will even help with the cost in many of these cases. Adopt them, because no woman is obligated to carry a pregnancy just to provide someone else with a newborn.

    • Alex Hunter

      Are they still using those arguments?
      If they see a problem that needs to be solved, why do they insist on having an unborn child solve it?
      And how many people are willing to go through the red tape of adoption when fertility pills are available over the counter of any chemist?

    • Sarah

      The chances of them becoming a serial killer are MUCH lower than them becoming a good person who contributes. Why do you think those people are so well known? Because they’re RARE, they BARELY EVER HAPPEN. Get your percentages straight.

      I have many friends and know of many people that are trying so hard to adopt, but are put on a waiting list. They try so hard, and they still have to wait. And obviously an adoptive parents isn’t the only reason to give someone life. We ALL deserve a chance…you know what’s funny? If you had been aborted, you wouldn’t even be able to type out that irrelevant argument. You wouldn’t have accomplished anything in your life, because it would have been unfairly ripped away.

      If a woman becomes pregnant, then it’s their responsibility to carry that child all the way to life, then they can give them to someone who can actually take care of them. It’s unbelievably selfish of “abortion mom’s” to say they handle the stress or physical effects. That’s NOTHING compared to the value of a life, the things that one person can do. I’m a woman, and I would rather cut off my own foot than kill an innocent life. I would kill myself if it saved the life of someone innocent. My mom has had 6 children, and the last few could have killed her. She would also cut off a limb to save a baby. She would also die the most awful and painful death to save a precious life.

      It’s especially pathetic when an unwanted pregnancy is your own fault. If you had sex without protection, if you had sex before you were married, then it’s YOUR FAULT. YOU need to face your consequences. You’re own ignorance brought you to where you are, and you need to face it. Why is everyone fighting to make everything so simple and easy. They think they make a mistake and they can just wash it away and not deal with the consequences. People are wimps now, they’re so scared to face the consequences of their own mistakes, so scared to face what THEY CAUSED. Well get over it! That’s life! When you mess up you’re supposed to endure the punishment, then when it’s all over you move on.

      No wonder the world is so chaotic and messed up. People are too caught up in their politics and logic. Where’s the empathy, where’s the love? It’s getting crushed under the heels of high and mighty people who think that what they’re doing is for justice and equality. And for every innocent life that’s ripped away because someone was too selfish to handle it, another crack is added to the fragile world. Someday, it’s going to explode, and everyone is going to wonder what went wrong. Once again…where’s the EMPATHY, where’s the LOVE?

      • LostInUnderland

        Where is your empathy and love for the already born? Getting pregnant on accident is not always because of a mistake you made. Married women on birth control still get pregnant. Even if it was always the woman being bad that caused it, no woman should be forced to go through pregnancy and labor as a punishment. Your mother’s life is worth more than any embryo. If she choose to risk it to bring more people into the world, that was her choice. Surely a woman that would choose to risk her own life to have another child can understand the choice of a woman who knows that she cannot face those risks. The very most awful thing in any argument of this nature is that people would consider pregnancy a punishment that a woman deserves. Men are never made to suffer for their sexual choices, but women should accept bodily disfigurement and possible death because they had sex? Even if they didn’t chose to have sex? Also, the chances of the child becoming a serial killer, felon, or abuser are much higher for a child that was born to a mother who believes that child is an atonement for her sins or a mother who gave it away. To me abortion is saving a baby from a horrible life. If I had been aborted, I never would have known it or suffered. I don’t even know that “I” would have existed. It doesn’t matter. My mom would have had a better life, though.

        • Suba gunawardana

          Furthermore, when pregnancy & childbirth are forced in a woman as punishment, who suffers most in the end is the unwanted child. They end up punishing a child in their desire to punish a woman.

      • Arekushieru

        People who do good and are well-known for it are rare, ‘sweetie’. So, unless you’re saying that people who do good things are rare, too, no, there is just a ‘little’ bit more to why bad people are well-known than because they’re RARE. There are monsters throughout history and today. It’s just that people get remembered for the bad things they do more often than the good. Also, people don’t go ‘bad’ for no reason. There are underlying circumstances and the policies YOU support will just create MORE of them. AW.

        The reason your friends are waiting to adopt is because they are waiting for their ‘perfect, white, healthy newborns’ and being selfish, rather than ‘inconveniencing’ (as you people like to frame pregnancy) themselves by choosing to adopt an older child who may have special needs. And a pregnant woman is not some convenient slave labour to provide an infertile SELFISH couple with a ready-made child.

        My mom CHOSE to have me and my sibling. Why would either of us have been aborted? Because, obviously, my mom had had, and made, the choice that I and all other Pro-Choicers advocate for each and every woman to have. Oops. Also, if my mom had not had an abortion PRIOR to my sibling, it would have been physically impossible for THEM to be HERE and they wouldn’t have been able to make ANY kind of argument, whatsoever, irrelevant or NOT.. Your problem is that you simply will not comprehend how abortion is not the ONLY thing that can deprive one of their existence OR how it can actually ensure someone’s existence. Oops. Besides, NONE of us are special snowflakes.

        To say we all deserve a chance is to say that those who were aborted deserved no chance. That’s YOUR narrative, not ours.

        If a woman becomes pregnant it’s their responsibility to seek medical treatment as they see fit (abortion being one of the options). Women do not owe society any more responsibility than any other human population. To demand that they do is pure misogyny.

        In MANY circumstances relinquishment has proven to be MORE stressful and psychologically damaging than abortion. That’s what YOU, in your INFINITE wisdom, believe should happen to women, that they should not only be physically but emotionally and mentally punished for daring to have consensual, non-procreative sex.

        Why do you speak so much about the value of a life when it’s obvious that you care NOTHING about the value of a woman’s life? Hmm?

        Fetuses are neither innocent nor guilty. Women ARE innocent, however. When they mistakenly got pregnant, they committed no crime for which they needed to punished.

        Those who waste time making claims that they would suffer for another, rather than doing, often DO nothing more than that, claim. They are actually just making a bunch of noise.

        Even IF your claim about your mother is true, that she would sacrifice her life to save that of another, and that she’s already had several pregnancies that nearly killed her, hate to break it to ya, but your mother is NOT Pro-‘life’. After all, it’s most likely that she CHOSE to have you and your siblings. AW.

        Fetuses aren’t babies.

        MOST women who have had abortions were either married and/or using some form of contraception AND/OR have one or more children, ALREADY. That means that using contraception or being married is NOT protection against unwanted pregnancy. Besides, not every woman wants to be married, despite your assumption that men who have all the sex they want, wherever and however they want are studs and women who have sex outside of marriage are sluts/whores.

        If children are precious, then why are you calling them mere consequences? Contradictory anti is contradictory.

        Yes, blame others for the ignorance in which YOUR ilk chooses to keep them. Anti-contraception, anti-sex, anti-comprehensive sex education, funding cuts, etc….

        A ‘consequence’ of having an unwanted pregnancy is an abortion. I see many women who have faced that consequence DAILY.

        Really? It’s a woman’s fault that her DNA created an organ upon which the fetus depends for its life and sustenance? Really? Your misogyny REEKS.

        The one who clearly lacks empathy and love for a living, breathing, sapient, sentient WOMAN is asking others about THEIR lack of empathy and love.

        High and mighty? That’s an odd way to describe the really poor. Or, are you one of those who thinks that the poorer classes are actually more privileged than the upper classes? Do you call black women on welfare, welfare queens? Forget it, nothing these women can do will ever be right for BIGOTS like you. Create a situation, force a need on a certain human population, remove all supports for that need, then blame that specific population for resorting to desperate measures that YOU disagree with. Where is YOUR responsibility for the messes YOU create? Those who speak of responsibility to be taken by others, need to look after the plank in their OWN eye, first, ya know. Oops.

        Women being able to choose WHO uses their body and when and how it is used, via ongoing, informed and explicit consent just as others have always done is NOT about justice and equality? Wow, you’re idea of justice and equality must be VERY skewed.

        Those who wish to force pregnant women to labour for infertile couples to provide them with a child so that they may live as they wish to live are not only SELFISH but GREEDY. Which is a SIN.

        Yes, I do have to ask you, where IS your empathy, where IS your love?

      • Michelle

        It is not anyone’s responsibility to give birth, in order to provide children to those who cannot conceive. Women are not chattel.

        You are obsessed with punishing women who have had sex. That is your issue. No one else needs to have their future determined by your obsession with punishment. It says a lot when someone goes on about how important babies are but then goes into their actual agenda of punishing women.

  • vamom1

    The comments here amaze me. I am pro-choice. I am for every woman making her own decision, for whatever reason. I don’t care what those reasons are – every woman should have the right to make it for themselves. For all those screaming abortion is murder and against God – fine – I guess your God is able to handle it himself. Every woman has the right to make the choice, and to live with any and all consequences, or lack of consequence, as she sees fits. Done.