‘Democracy Now!’ Interviews Susan Cahill of a Vandalized Clinic in Montana

Democracy Now! interviews All Families Healthcare owner Susan Cahill, whose clinic offered decades of safe abortion only to be vandalized into indefinite closure earlier this month. Zachary Klundt, son of former board member of the anti-choice group Hope Pregnancy Ministries Twyla Klundt, has been charged with the vandalism. Support All Families Healthcare here.

  • Jason Kindle

    Honestly don’t feel bad, Susan Cahill thinks Hope Pregnancy Ministries is Dangerous? Susan Cahill is dangerous to those who have no voice, she should be ashamed.

    • HeilMary1

      Mother-killing sock puppet, YOU belong in jail for using fetuses as fists to maim and murder women. No woman deserves bladder and bowel incontinence, multiple organ failures, face and breast cancers, and death just so you pedophile priests will have unlimited rape victims!

      • Jason Kindle

        I don’t know if no woman deserves those things, Elizabeth Bathory was pretty bad.

        As much as you’d like to demonize me and throw accusations at me in place of an argument; no innocent person deserves to be killed, especially little ones.

        • Jennifer Starr

          Except no one’s killing ‘little ones’. All babies have been born. And what does Elizabeth Bathory have to do with anything?

          • Jason Kindle

            HeiMary1 said no woman deserves multiple organ failures, Elizabeth Bathory is a potential counter example to that.

            To say no one is killing little one’s is reminds me of when slave owners said Aborigines weren’t people. It goes against science, philosophy, and common intuition.

          • Dez

            Like the slave owners who forced black women like cattle to breed new slaves? So it’s okay to force a woman to be pregnant according to your logic.

          • Jason Kindle

            I’m sorry, did you just equate advocating for the life of an innocent person with being forced to have sex?

          • expect_resistance

            Forced birth is rape!

          • Jason Kindle

            Really? Who is doing raping?

          • expect_resistance

            Forcing a woman to remain pregnant and forcing all pregnancies to end in a live birth is raping a woman’s body. If you are an anti-choicer/forced-birther you are.

          • Jason Kindle

            So a mother killing and extracting a dead body from whom is fine, but when the baby comes out alive it’s rape?

          • Jennifer Starr

            From whom? Huh? Sorry, I don’t even know what this is supposed to mean.

          • expect_resistance

            Do you think he meant “womb?” Didn’t make sense to me either.

          • Jennifer Starr

            I think maybe, but even with that substitution the sentence doesn’t make a lot of sense.

          • expect_resistance

            Yeh, this one doesn’t seem to bright.

          • Jason Kindle

            So a mother killing and extracting a dead body from womb is fine, but when the baby comes out alive it’s rape?

          • Jennifer Starr

            That still doesn’t make sense. What is rape is forcing a woman to carry an unwanted or dangerous pregnancy.

          • Jason Kindle

            So a woman shouldn’t be forced to keep the baby moments before live birth?

          • Jason Kindle

            Still waiting, so a woman shouldn’t be forced to keep the baby moments before live birth?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Irrelevant, doesn’t happen.

          • Arekushieru

            That you think it is simply a matter of forcing or not forcing a woman to do something, as if she were some mechanical doll, makes you a very sick person. Please, seek help.

          • goatini

            If the pregnancy was unwanted, most forced birthers think that the billion-dollar global human trafficking adoption syndicate should seize the baby at birth, for them to sell to vicious barren vultures for five figures.

          • expect_resistance

            Forcing a woman to remain pregnant against her will is rape. When a woman has an abortion she is not killing anyone. She is ending a pregnancy. Do you understand how abortion works? Do you understand that most abortions take place in the first trimester?

          • Jason Kindle

            So a woman shouldn’t be forced to keep the baby moments before live birth?

          • Arekushieru

            You seem to have difficulty with the terms coerce and force. Why is that? Do you think all pregnancies are ‘magically’ wanted by the woman who carry them just because a uterus develops inside them (that’s YOUR phrasing, btw, not mine).

          • Arekushieru

            Abortion isn’t killing. You do have a lot of problems with definitions, don’t you? Person/Personhood, babies, domestic terrorism, trends, harm and now… killing.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            What? Word salad.

          • goatini

            Women do not become mothers until the birth event has occurred.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Commandeer or make unconsensual use of my body by law or otherwise and you have committed RAPE:

            The term rape originates in the Latin rapere, from raptus, “to snatch, to grab, to carry off”.[22][23] The term has come to mean, since approximately the 14th century, “to seize and take away by force”.[1] In Roman law in the carrying off of a woman by force, with or without intercourse, constituted “raptus”.[23] In Medieval English law the same term could refer to either kidnapping or rape in the modern sense of “sexual violation”.[22] The original meaning of “carry off by force” is still found in some phrases, such as “rape and pillage” or in titles, such as the story of the Rape of the Sabine Women or the poem The Rape of the Lock, which is about the theft of a lock of hair.
            The term is most often defined in criminal law.[2][4]

            Violence is defined by the act of rape itself, not by the intention of the raper.

          • expect_resistance

            Well said!

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Anyone attempting to coerce birth or abortion.

          • goatini

            Forced birth is gestational slavery.

          • Dez

            No that is what you are doing. You devalue the life of a woman over a fetus. You are for forcing women to be slaves to a fetus. But’s it’s okay for you to make a comparison to slavery. Hypocrite.

          • Jason Kindle

            I didn’t say that. I’m advocating for women to not kill an innocent person.

          • Dez

            Sorry but you are ignorant of basic biology. The only person involved is the woman. You have yet shown any evidence that there is any other person involved. Your emotional and religious claims are not valid evidence.

          • expect_resistance

            Yep, he has a real ignorance of basic biology.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Like in – it is a young teen and has never had sex in its short life. I feel like a pervert just typing about sex to it. Where is its Momma?

          • Jason Kindle

            Please show me my ignorance of biology. In which statement is this found?

          • expect_resistance

            Pretty much everything you’ve said.

          • Jason Kindle

            no examples? ok.

          • expect_resistance

            What do you not understand about everything? Look at it yourself no need for examples.

          • Jason Kindle

            Weird because I have made very few statements to biology.

          • fiona64

            Well, there is the fact that you think that fetuses are born (infants) … and that you think a woman has a body part called a “whom.”

          • goatini

            You think fetuses are persons.

          • Jason Kindle

            Religious claims? Please tell me of these religious claims.

          • Dez

            That a fetus is a baby or innocent/guilty. That is certainly not a scientific claim.

          • Arekushieru

            Okay, your homework for today is to look up definitions for seven terms about which you are apparently completely ignorant: Person/Personhood, killing, babies, harm, trends, domestic terrorism AAAANNNNDD innocence!

            Also, telling women that they are the sole people not to be allowed to exercise their right to bodily autonomy without interference from some sort of body or movement IS force by proxy.

          • goatini

            You devalue the life of a woman over a fetus. You are for forcing women to be slaves to a fetus. But’s it’s okay for you to make a comparison to slavery. Hypocrite.

            A fetus is not a person. A fetus cannot be innocent.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            What person? You have issues. You come anywhere near my babies, in or out of utero, in real life and I will hurt you. Count on it.

          • Jason Kindle

            I’m sure you will, that’s why I won’t be coming anywhere near your padded room.

          • expect_resistance

            You also are clueless about mental illness. It doesn’t equal insanity or a padded room.

          • Jason Kindle

            Are you her roommate?

          • expect_resistance

            That would be impossible because Plum and I are about a thousand miles apart.

          • Jason Kindle

            Is that what they tell you?

          • Arekushieru

            Unwanted pregnancy =/= unwanted sex? Wow, your math skills really are lacking. Like another poster once said on this website: rape is wrong not (merely) because rapists are bad, but because victims are hurt. And you, as per usual, ignore the victim as long as it’s only applicable to a female organ.

          • goatini

            Fetuses are not persons.

            Fetuses are not “innocent”, by necessity. Innocence requires sentience to exist.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Slave owners forced pregnancy upon their slaves.

          • Jason Kindle

            And that is a horrible mark in history, but that is a fact, not an argument.

          • Jennifer Starr

            And some slave women self-aborted their pregnancies rather than be forced to be breeding stock. Do you think that was wrong?

          • Jason Kindle

            I think your statement a rabbit trail that distracts from the majority of babies are being killed contemporarily.

          • expect_resistance

            No babies are being killed.

          • Jason Kindle

            You can use whatever word makes you feel comfortable, but it is a person.

          • expect_resistance

            Nope a fetus, embryo, or are you say “unborn baby” is not a person. It doesn’t have personhood status. A woman’s bodily autonomy trumps that of a fetus. So deal with it.

          • Jason Kindle

            Of course it is a person; it has all of identifications of a person. Weird how if a mother wants the person they call it a baby and if they don’t they call it a fetus.

          • expect_resistance

            Wrong.

          • Jason Kindle

            Wrong? Oh, ok.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Funny that, how pregnancy decisions get to be made by the woman who’s actually pregnant. Don’t worry, Jason. When you get pregnant, we’ll let you make that decision too.

          • Jason Kindle

            Cut off my arm, I won’t be killing any babies.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Did I say anything about cutting off your arm or killing babies?

          • expect_resistance

            That’s a new one I’ve not heard before. Cutting off his arm…. *eyeroll*

          • Arekushieru

            Cutting your arm is like cutting the umbilical cord, how? The umbilical cord isn’t a part of the fetus like the arm is a part of you, and that’s EXACTLY why a fetus isn’t a person and abortion isn’t killing.

          • goatini

            And neither will anyone else posting here. No babies are ever harmed in any way at all during a safe, legal pregnancy termination. Go troll somewhere else.

          • Dez

            You seem to not understand the difference between emotional terms and scientific terms. You can call a fetus whatever emotional name you want. It does not change the FACT that is a fetus.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You are twelve. Too young to be here at all.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            What are the “identifications of a person?”

          • Arekushieru

            People call their adult dogs babies, does that make them a baby? People call their SO babies, does that make their SO a baby?

          • goatini

            Persons have already been born.

            Babies have already been born.

            Fetuses are not persons, not babies, not citizens, and have no rights.

          • Dez

            Prove it. Provide a SSN or birth certificate, or any documentation for a fetus as a person.

          • Jason Kindle

            A birth certificate or SSN does not define a person.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            What does, little turnip? I cannot wait to find out.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Birth does.

          • Jason Kindle

            birth does what?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Defines a person.

          • Jason Kindle

            You’ll have to explain that, how does birth define what a person is?

          • Jennifer Starr

            First tell me what a ‘whom’ is supposed to be and maybe I will.

          • Jason Kindle

            Obvious misspelling, your turn.

          • Jennifer Starr

            No, it’s not that obvious. It’s actually a word that’s fairly easy to spell, if you want to make yourself clearly understood.

          • Jason Kindle

            You’re talking about clarity? Coming from the person who defined person as birth.

          • Jennifer Starr

            People are born, yes. That’s fairly clear and obvious.

          • Jason Kindle

            Yes and they also drink milk. But drinking milk doesn’t exactly define what a person is does it and neither could being birthed. So do you want to try again?

          • Jennifer Starr

            No, I’m good with birth.

          • Jason Kindle

            Oh ok, so then you’d have no problem calling dog a person? You do know they have been birthed too, right?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Unless canines are suddenly classified as homo sapiens, that’s too nonsensical to even warrant a reply.

          • Jason Kindle

            It was your definition, not mine.

          • Jennifer Starr

            I said that all persons are born. Not that all born were persons.

          • Jason Kindle

            I even gave you a second chance, I asked “But drinking milk doesn’t exactly define what a person is does it and neither could being birthed. So do you want to try again?”

            and you said “I’m good with birth”.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Not all persons drink milk.

          • Jason Kindle

            shaking my head, OK, has a belly button, does that help? You still don’t see the problem in your definition?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Your assumption being that that’s my only definition, which isn’t true. But a fetus who is not born is not a person. Period.

          • Jason Kindle

            Oh, you have additional definitions you’re hiding away? Please lay them the table, let’s see what else you have.

          • fiona64

            It has already been explained to you, repeatedly, that personhood is a legal status that requires birth. If you are confused by that, please revisit the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution, which lays it out pretty clearly.

            You’re welcome.

            Jerk.

          • Jason Kindle

            I’m not talking legally. I’m talking more general. You can’t define all birth of history and countries by the U.S. definition of personhood. I’m talking about in terms of science, philosophy!

          • fiona64

            All persons, everywhere, have been born.

            I’m dreadfully sorry that you are not bright enough to understand that, but it really isn’t my fault. I blame the dimwits who homeschooled you.

          • Arekushieru

            Then why have no countries anywhere or anytime ever declared that a fetus is a person, if they aren’t ‘following’ (HUGE hint there for ya) the US definition of personhood?

          • Jason Kindle

            Please, still waiting for you definition of a person.

          • Arekushieru

            We’ve given you one, repeatedly. Just go ahead and read. Expecting women to continuously beat their heads against the wall for you, while wondering why they get angry and are insulting ‘the great man’ is an example of misogyny, btw.

          • goatini

            Here’s a hint: The correct answer is NOT zygote, blastocyst, embryo, or fetus. That should narrow things down for you considerably.

          • Jason Kindle

            I didn’t ask what all persons do, I asked you to define person. Want to try again?

          • fiona64

            I knew that this dumbassed comparison would come along eventually … it never fails.

          • goatini

            Persons are born.

          • expect_resistance

            Okay, the stupid from this one, it burns.

          • fiona64

            Not when you do it repeatedly, it isn’t. It demonstrates that you do not know the difference between the two words, which are not even homophones.

          • goatini

            Rights and citizenship accrue to persons at birth. Before birth, the fetus is not a person, not a citizen, has no rights.

          • Jason Kindle

            Of course I do, It’s people on here who think the fetus magically changes to a person through the amazing birth canal.

          • Shan

            “a fetus changes into a person somewhere between the moment of entering the birth canal and moments after taking the first breath.”

            Legally, it’s a person when it’s born alive. Any other way she chooses to think of it as one, it’s a person the moment the woman who’s pregnant with it decides she’s going to gestate and give birth to it.

          • lady_black

            Two of my children, and all three of my sister’s children never went through any “birth canal” (actually, it’s called a vagina). I’m pretty sure they are all people. They were born alive. Speaking of happiness, you would probably be a lot happier if you focused on your own life, rather than obsessing about vaginas and uteri that don’t belong to you. Just a thought.

          • Arekushieru

            No, you don’t. We’ve already given you science that you’ve preferred not to read. Science also states that the minimal definition for personhood is: human, individual; after all. I reiterate we have shown how a fetus is not an individual, scientifically.

            Philosophically (as we’ve stated over and over, again) even YOU do not agree that a fetus is a person. If you claim that an embryo/fetus is somehow a person, while a blastocyst and zygote are not or that all four of the above stages are persons but sperm and egg are not, how are you NOT making the exact same claim that you are accusing US of making?

            Also, stop erasing women! First the uterus, now the birth canal? BOTH of them are only mere locations to you? You are only concerned with what happens to the fetus in either ‘location’? What about the maternal part of the relationship for fucking once?

          • goatini

            If he doesn’t have to acknowledge the critical life event of BIRTH, he doesn’t have to acknowledge females as full citizens and as full equals to males.

          • Dez

            So we have to take your definition as the final authority on what a person is? Or we should leave it to science and proven evidence instead of emotional and religious beliefs.

          • Jason Kindle

            Leave it to science and philosophy.

          • Arekushieru

            Too bad you don’t.

          • Dez

            Just science. I don’t care what you and others personally believe unless you can demonstrate it with evidence.

          • lady_black

            It does in this country.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            A fetus gets all the rights and privileges of legal personhood when it survives birth and not before.
            Persons are born or corporations.

          • goatini

            Wrong. Fetuses are not persons. Rights and citizenship accrue to persons at birth.

          • Jennifer Starr

            There was a woman in Auschwitz, Gisella Perl, who helped pregnant women to abort their pregnancies to save them from being tortured and experimented upon–something that was happening to pregnant prisoners in that camp. Do you think that was wrong?

          • Jason Kindle

            What about the millions of woman who kill the innocent people in their whom and have no reason except convenience. Is that wrong?

          • Jennifer Starr

            In their whom? What are you saying to me?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Nope.
            You want to force a woman like that to have a child in her care? Do you dislike children?

          • Jason Kindle

            Would you?

          • Jennifer Starr

            That’s a cop out. Answer the question.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I am PRO CHOICE.

          • Jason Kindle

            Still waiting, You want to force a woman like that to have a child in her care?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I am PRO CHOICE, Stupid. I do not want to force an evil woman to give birth . YOU do.

          • fiona64

            WTF body part is the “whom”?

          • lady_black

            So in your mind, (and ONLY in your mind), pregnancy is “an inconvenience.” If you were my son, I would slap your face for saying that.

          • Jason Kindle

            Glad you didn’t abort all of your kids. Also glad you’re not my mother.

          • lady_black

            Actually I didn’t abort any of them. That’s why I would slap your face for calling pregnancy “an inconvenience.”

          • Jason Kindle

            Thankfully a clinic was too far for you to drive.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Yeah, I thought you were making an ass of yourself last night, but you seem to be outdoing yourself this morning. Flagged.

          • Jason Kindle

            Hey I didn’t bring the bar down. Seems difficult for women on here to have a discussion without throwing in some insults.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Want me to play a teeny tiny violin? You started out here by supporting anti-choice violence and terrorism. I don’t know what kind of reception you expected.

          • Jason Kindle

            I hope you like the music, you raised the complaint, not me.

          • Arekushieru

            SHE was the one who was complaining about people insulting her? Really? Cause I coulda SWORN that it was your name that was situated right beside the comment that made the complaint…. Oops?

          • fiona64

            Hey, dumbass … you supported terrorism and violence with your opening remarks. The fact that you cannot connect this to the reception you are getting does not reflect well upon your intelligence. Again, I blame the dimwits who homeschooled you.

          • fiona64

            Your entire position is insulting, little Jason. But hey, rock on.

            However, if you ever wonder why you have problems dating (and I have no doubt in my mind that this is the case), revisit this little discussion, where you talk about how stupid women are. Perhaps one day you will be self-aware enough to recognize the connection between your attitude and your lack of social success.

          • goatini

            Coming to a reproductive justice site and arguing for violating the civil, human and Constitutional rights of female citizens, and stripping said citizens of those rights, IS AN INSULT.

          • lady_black

            Why would I have had to drive? You don’t drive yourself home from an abortion. You don’t know much about much, do you?

          • Arekushieru

            That’s about nine or ten definitions you’ve had difficulty interpreting so far. Pro-Choice: either look it up or actually read some (of my own) comments.

          • fiona64

            Too bad it was also too far for your mother …

          • BillyBob1234

            The fetus isn’t even sentient and is therefore incapable of suffering, so why even worry about it? It doesn’t become sentient until about 26 weeks, and, by then, it’s already viable. By then, abortion is no longer needed.

          • Jason Kindle

            Well don’t say it’s not needed, people on here would disagree.

          • BillyBob1234

            You still haven’t given a reason as to why you should be concerned about the fetus.

          • Arekushieru

            BillyBob? Am I grateful there are people like you who are actually willing to at least understand what people are saying. Even if you still come to a different conclusion than we, ourselves, do, you are also willing to address the discrepancies in arguments that people who more closely espouse views similar to yours, make

          • Jason Kindle

            I like to hear these people on here first. They say some things on here i’ve never heard, like a fetus changes into a person somewhere between the moment of entering the birth canal and moments after taking the first breath. Feels like I got warped into the 15th century.

          • Shan

            “a fetus changes into a person somewhere between the moment of entering the birth canal and moments after taking the first breath.”

            That would be the US brand of *legal* personhood an infant has after it’s born alive.

          • Arekushieru

            Nope, the warped comments YOU make are more appropriate to the fifteenth century. Women were considered property just as much back then, as you and your ilk do now.

          • goatini

            If the forced-birthers can erase BIRTH from the equation, they can more easily erase women’s civil, human and Constitutional rights from the equation. Someone point this boob towards B in the dictionary.

          • Arekushieru

            Nope, we wouldn’t disagree. Because women who have abortions that late usually, if not always (although I haven’t heard of any exceptions to the rule, to tell you the truth), abort for medical reasons. If they were going to abort for reasons other than health when the fetus is viable, it would have become apparent LONG before now that there WAS a need. There hasn’t.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Well said :)

          • BillyBob1234

            Thanks. :)

          • fiona64

            Holy cow. A stopped clock really is right twice a day. Thank you, BillyBob.

          • Jennifer Starr

            You really are making an enormous ass of yourself.

          • Arekushieru

            Yeah, what would it be like to have a mother that doesn’t always put YOU before herself, just because she’s been shown that her life is worthless compared to a fetus? Your sense of entitlement (just because you’re male) is showing.

            Btw, my mom is Pro-Choice and that’s why she has two kids and had one abortion. My aunt is Pro-‘Life’ and has five kids, but, while I wouldn’t claim that this is the reason she has YET to show any affection for them, I could make a pretty good guess, if I were asked, that it has something to do with it, at the very least, because she sees pregnancy and children as her duty, nothing more, nothing less, JUST as it is the only obvious concern for all OTHER Pro-‘Life’ women. Pro-‘Life’ women have to expend more time and effort to make their children believe they were wanted, after all, since ‘wanting’ children has nothing to do with ‘duty’.

          • fiona64

            I’m glad I’m not your mother as well, you insolent little brat. My 27-year-old son would like to take you back behind the woodshed and teach you some manners.

            Pregnancy is not a mere “inconvenience,” as you claim. It is, 100 percent of the time, a potentially life-threatening medical condition. And, as I have already pointed out, one that will never affect your physical health. It would have been mighty damned inconvenient for my family if I had died, don’t you think?

            Oh, wait, I keep forgetting. Women aren’t really people. They’re just where the uterus is “located.”

          • goatini

            If your mother agrees with this steaming load of misogynist forced-birther BS, I’m glad she’s not my mother.

          • Arekushieru

            That point just went RIGHT over your head, didn’t it? Forced pregnancy and childbirth is torture and akin to rape. If you don’t want women to kill ‘innocent’ *fetuses*, then it shouldn’t matter how the woman are being tortured and experimented upon, after all, the ‘innocence’ of the fetus does NOT change.

          • goatini

            Fetuses aren’t persons.

          • lady_black

            Oh. So you discriminate based on temporal location. I see.

          • Arekushieru

            And, AGAIN, swoosh! …and the point just went right over his head. If slavery and abortion were comparable, women who were slaves would not attempt to abort their pregnancies.

          • goatini

            No babies have ever been harmed in any way in a safe, legal pregnancy termination.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            LOL. Back at you, Piscialetto. You just made the same argument above.

          • Jason Kindle

            Please explain?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You made a historical argument above. You do not read what you type, TrollBaby?

          • fiona64

            So, you bring up the murder of indigenous peoples (who were born persons) as support of your anti-choice position, and when someone else brings up the rape and forced breeding of slaves (who were born persons), that doesn’t “count”?

            Really? Dude, you are such a hypocrite. I guess rape and forced breeding were okey-dokey by you because, after all, that just happened to *women,* who aren’t really persons … just life support systems for a “location.”

          • lady_black

            So that makes you a horrible slaver. You want to force pregnancies on others. That almost sounds like slavery. Oh wait…

          • goatini

            Slave owners forced pregnancy upon their slaves.

            Forced birthers want to force gestation of all pregnancies to term upon innocent female US citizens.

            Forced birth is gestational slavery.

            Yes, I’d say that’s an argument.

          • Jennifer Starr

            And Aborigines were born–last time I checked, they weren’t inside someone else’s body.

          • Jason Kindle

            wow, that’s your response? Let’s not forget they were killed by the thousands.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Contrary to popular anti-choice belief, the uterus is not ‘just a location’. There is a difference.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            What does that have to do with me getting a safe and legal abortion when I want one?

          • Jason Kindle

            They both try to justify a person isn’t a person for personal convenience.

          • Jennifer Starr

            So easy for you to dismiss pregnant women’s concerns as ‘mere convenience’, secure in the knowledge that you yourself will never be inconvenienced.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Who did that? Go do your homework.

          • Jason Kindle

            Go do your homework, or have you never been concerned for people other than yourself. It’s not exactly hidden history. Or are you too lazy to type Aborigines and killings.

          • expect_resistance

            What does that have to do with abortion? Nothing.

          • Jason Kindle

            As I said, they both start from the same premises.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Ooohhh burn. You looked me up. I iz shakin.

          • Jason Kindle

            Looked you up? The more you talk the more i’m confused.

          • Arekushieru

            Actually, it tends to be Pro-“lifers’ who display more bigoted behaviours.

          • lady_black

            Anything inside my body is not a person. Now how’s THAT for a definition?? And even if it *were* a person, it isn’t entitled to the use of my body, just as YOU aren’t. And you are probably a person.

          • Jason Kindle

            So you define something by one thing it’s not? Wow really glad you don’t write definitions, the world wold be a very confusing place.

          • lady_black

            No pay attention! I said it is NOT a person if it’s inside my body. And even if it WERE a “person” it isn’t entitled to the use of any of my body parts. You don’t pay attention to context. You can’t just walk up to me and demand that I breathe for you. GET IT??

          • Arekushieru

            So do you, refer to my post, below, about how you magically confer personhood on fetuses and embryos or zygotes and blastocysts but not both and definitely not sperm or eggs.

          • goatini

            A fetus is a fetus is a fetus. A fetus is not a person. Rights accrue to persons at birth.

          • Arekushieru

            As others have said, PREGNANCY IS NOT A CONVENIENCE. And since you are a MAN, calling pregnancy a convenience when you KNOW you, yourself, will never have to assume the risks of pregnancy, is just as bad even IF pregnancy WERE all farts and rainbows. Kthx.

          • Arekushieru

            Nope, the fact that a fetus is NOT a person is IRRELEVANT. To bigots, like your ilk tend to be, personhood (or the lack thereof) was VERY relevant in granting rights to non-Whites.

          • goatini

            Fetuses are not persons. Rights accrue to persons at birth.

          • Jennifer Starr

            It’s funny how you previously tried to tell me that past history didn’t matter, and yet you bring up Elizabeth Bathory and the mistreatment of Aboriginal people as your examples. Can’t have it both ways.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            It is twelve and typing from Mom’s basement. Anything is possible.

          • Jason Kindle

            I never said the past history didn’t matter.

          • Jennifer Starr

            You called it a rabbit trail, as I recall.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You quot it and it still “can’t remember.” What a maroon.

          • lady_black

            Could be Alzheimer’s.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            True. So why am I replying to to it? Hmmm.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Could be Downs. Fetal alcohol syndrome.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Or just general anti-choice asshattery.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            There is that. God knows they have not developed a new argument in 40 years.
            Chief arguments:
            1. It is wrong.
            2. Slutshaming.
            3. Because I said so.

          • fiona64

            No, I think it’s just not too bright.

          • Jason Kindle

            A rabbit trail as in a distraction to my point, not that it didn’t matter.

          • Jennifer Starr

            No, not a distraction. It was right on the money. You just didn’t want to acknowledge that.

          • Jason Kindle

            I acknowledge it, still a rabbit trail.

          • Arekushieru

            Nope, history plays a very important part in who we are, now. Not a rabbit trail, therefore.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You do not read what you type? Troll.

          • Jason Kindle

            please refer.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            No, I like it when you look stupid. Refer yourself.

          • Jason Kindle

            Your statements are far more entertaining.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            It is God’s job to decide who deserves what.
            There is no “people” until I make the “people.”
            I get to decide when and if to do that.
            Cry me a river.

          • Arekushieru

            NO one deserves multiple organ failures. Just keep proving how little women mean to you.

          • Jason Kindle

            Are you a man hater? Do you think it’s ok for man to comment on evil men but not evil women? Let’s be consistent.

          • Arekushieru

            No, you’re a woman-hater. As ALL your posts have been about how you hate women, despite any CLAIMS to the contrary you may make. All I asked is that for ONCE you make a claim that shows you have SOME little decency left in you, and rather than doing that, you attack the woman (myself) making the request. Commenting on evil women is par for the course for your ilk, specifically, and society, at large. Condemning them even MORE so. Therefore, even IF you commented on evil men just as frequently as you did evil women, the fact that society shames evil women while heralding evil men, very much makes you NOT an equal supporter of men and women, anyways.

            Obtw, I have never talked about how men and women are more evil than one another, that comparison is something only YOU’VE been doing.

          • goatini

            Oh great, one of these big babies with the old “don’t like ME? then you MUST be a MAN-HATER” BS.

          • goatini

            Forced-birthers say women aren’t people.

          • fiona64

            He just learned about her during his D&D game, so he wanted to throw her in. Look for a reference to Vlad the Impaler next.

        • Jennifer Starr

          Just a note–links get caught up in our spam filters, so if you’ve tried to post anything that has a link, it won’t show up.

        • Arekushieru

          This has nothing to do with what one ‘deserves’. Abortion is not punishment. Do try to keep up.

        • Arekushieru

          Pedophile priests are the ones that oppose abortion, so the link between the two is OBVIOUS. And most Pro-Lifers defend and support these pedophile priests in their actions and causes.

          The risks that HeilMary listed for pregnancy HAVE manifested NUMEROUS times during gestation for women. In fact, it has happened to some of the people that HeilMary knows. So, again, the link is OBVIOUS.

    • goatini

      I’m concerned and compassionate for persons who have no voice. But a fetus is not a person.

  • Jason Kindle

    Honestly don’t feel bad, Susan Cahill thinks Hope Pregnancy Ministries is Dangerous? Susan Cahill is dangerous to those who have no voice, she should be ashamed.

    • Jennifer Starr

      So you support terrorism. Is that what you’re saying?

      • Jason Kindle

        Terrorism is a loaded word. Depends on how it is defined and in what context. So you support killing of innocent life that has been cut short of it’s first breath. Is that what you’re saying?

        • Dez

          So you support killing and harassment of doctors, nurses, and women that are involved in abortion? Is that what you are saying?

          • Jason Kindle

            I think abortion should be outlawed except for exceptional circumstances and then anyone who participates in them should be tried in court accordingly.

          • Dez

            That didn’t answer the question.

          • Jason Kindle

            I think is did, but you didn’t even attempt to answer mine.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Tried for what?
            Every third woman you meet everday would be in jail.
            You cannot get laid, Sweety. I know it hurts your darling precious feelings, but the fear and discomfort you feel is not a capital offense. What a wuss.

          • Jason Kindle

            And one in 20 people long ago would be in jail for killing someone, but we can be a better culture, we can learn from our mistakes.

          • Dez

            Death hasn’t stopped women from getting abortions. Jail will do nothing to stop it.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Nonsense. There are many life situations in which killing another person is not illegal or prosecuted: defense of self or others, assisted suicide, execution, soldiering, police work, abortion.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I hope you will learn from your mistakes.
            Childbirth (sepsis and hemorrhage) and Illegal Abortion are the two leading causes of maternal death worldwide. Fertility is serious business for women. Abortion/contraception is a human right. And you are a SLAVER. The lowest common denominator.

          • Jason Kindle

            How did you come to the conclusion contraception and abortion is a human right?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Because it is?

          • expect_resistance

            Women have the right to decide when and if to reproduce.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling
          • Jason Kindle

            Didn’t think you could form an argument on your own, but just wanted to make sure.

          • fiona64

            Most people come to a debate armed with facts and sources, not emotional bee-ess that they pulled out of their backsides. ::ahem:: You might want to remember that for future use.

          • Jason Kindle

            Arm yourself to the teeth with facts, but I was just asking for them to placed in an order that makes an argument, you know, that thing that persuades to a position?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Good. I am waiting for your argument. What should be done to a woman who has an illegal abortion. You said the should be “treated accordingly.”
            According to what. Law? There is none. Custom? Whose custom?
            FINISH YOUR ARGUMENT.

          • fiona64

            No, that is not what you said. You said: Didn’t think you could form an argument on your own, but just wanted to make sure.

            That was in response to Plum providing you with a list of citations that prove her point correct and yours incorrect. So, rather than say “Hmm, maybe I’m wrong,” you go right down the road of “Oh, so you can’t make an argument yourself?”

            Well, dude, the only argument you’re making is emotion-laden, misogynistic *crap* that you are pulling straight out of your backside (as I said). No facts, no figures … just a lot of hooey. The facts are on the side of reproductive justice, not on the side of pissed off little teenaged boys who couldn’t get laid in a women’s prison with a fistful of pardons and want to take it out on women everywhere by denying them access to a full range of health services.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I already made an argument on my own. You did not understand it. You are stupid. Not my fault.

          • Arekushieru

            Reading comprehension fail. Plum GAVE you those links precisely BECAUSE she made an argument that you simply did not try to grasp. Ignorance, as well, I see…..

          • lady_black

            Who are you anyway? Bode Miller? That pig tried to make an issue out of the “location” of a fetus too. He even thought in some universe he could have custody of a fetus. He was wrong, he’s a pig and so are you.

          • goatini

            You haven’t formed one yet.

          • lady_black

            She isn’t alone in those conclusions. But you know that, don’t you? The SCOTUS said both are rights, and neither are any of your business. Suck on that.

          • Jason Kindle

            Still waiting.

          • Jennifer Starr

            You’ve already gotten your answer.

          • lady_black

            Still waiting for WHAT??? The governmental body responsible for interpreting our rights under our Constitution already decided that contraception was a human right in 1965 and 1972, and abortion is a human right (within reasonable limits) in 1973. So what are you “still waiting” for?? Someone to prove that women are people?

          • Jason Kindle

            Hey i’m not the one discriminating on personhood based on location, I think all genders are people.

          • Jennifer Starr

            A uterus is not just a location.

          • Jason Kindle

            Really? I thought every point in the universe was a location, and you’re saying it somehow defies science? That explains a lot in your thinking.

          • Jennifer Starr

            You seem to be forgetting where the uterus is–again, your lack of concern for born women is duly noted.

          • Jason Kindle

            I thought you already noted that? Must have not of been very duly the first time?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Are you going to argue that a uterus is not part of a woman’s body?

          • Jason Kindle

            Hey I think the uterus has a location in a woman, it’s the lady above who is saying it doesn’t have location.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Nope, she said that her uterus was inside her body and that it belonged to her.. Both of those things are true.

          • Arekushieru

            She says that it has a location and that it is part of her body. She is ALSO saying that a FETUS does not just have a ‘location’. Thanks.

          • fiona64

            No, dummy, she said that it was *more* than a location, that it was part of her body. You’re the one who reduced to a mere location.

          • lady_black

            I am not “a location.” I am a human being. An individual. My body HAS a changeable location, depending on where I want it to be at the moment. Don’t you dare reduce me to the status of property.

          • Jason Kindle

            Property? Always easier to accuse someone of something they didn’t label you as.

          • Jennifer Starr

            That’s precisely what you’ve labeled women as.

          • fiona64

            Yeah, actually, that’s precisely what you did.

          • lady_black

            If a uterus isn’t something I can take off when I get a shower, then it’s not “a location.” It’s part of my body. That means I’M IN CHARGE OF IT, little man. Not YOU.

          • Jason Kindle

            Amazing thing your uterus is, defies space-time, logic and science. Magic.

          • lady_black

            My uterus does all those things. It no longer exists. It was incinerated with the rest of the medical waste. But before that? It was a part of my body, and I was in charge of it. You lose. Too bad.

          • Jason Kindle

            You lost your uterus and I lose?

          • lady_black

            No I didn’t lose it. I know exactly what happened to it. You lose. My uterus was a part of my body, and I was in charge of it. Argue that it wasn’t a part of my body and I wasn’t in control of it. You can’t.

          • Jason Kindle

            So you were in charge of your uterus and it got incinerated? What else are you in charge of?

          • lady_black

            See, I can do that. It was mine.

          • Jason Kindle

            Yeah, you destroy your own body i’m not surprised you do what you want with others.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Some day, someone will explain surgery to you.

          • lady_black

            Boo fucking hoo. Cry me a river.

          • Arekushieru

            So, you’re not happy she prevented the possibility of more abortions? You really DO think that women should just be magically happy when a pregnancy occurs? Yeah, I’m not surprised you support a form of rape and direct others in what to do with THEIR body. See, it’s also partly because of people like YOU that I DON’T want to get pregnant. So you, yourselves, are partly to blame for some women not being happy about getting pregnant. Whoops.

          • fiona64

            Yeah, removing cancerous tissue … that’s such a bad idea.

            Dumbass.

          • lady_black

            How have I destroyed my own body? My body is still here, and functioning just fine, even with the removal of a few troublesome spare, unneeded parts over the course of a lifetime. Are you going to say the same thing about my 12 year old nephew’s tonsillectomy? He’s doing just fine without them.

          • expect_resistance

            What in the hell are you talking about? She wanted to “incinerate” her uterus?

          • expect_resistance

            OMG can’t stop laughing at this one. Like a uterus is a pet than can run away and get “lost.” I’m just imagining my uterus running off any getting lost.

          • Arekushieru

            MORE reading comprehension fail. WHY am I not surprised? Reducing a uterus to ‘a location’ by refusing to acknowledge its FUNCTION dehumanizes women all the while YOU are trying to grant fetuses more rights than anyone born.

          • fiona64

            I am surprised that you are not embarrassed to display your ignorance in this fashion. The uterus *is* part of a woman’s body … and when an embryo is attached to said uterus via the umbilicus, it is *also* part of a woman’s body. It is drawing nutrients from her, using her kidneys to flush waste, etc., without the slightest regard to how this is impacting the woman … because, at that point, it is functioning as a *parasite.* Whether or not you like these biological realities, they are indeed the case.

          • Jason Kindle

            I’m still amazed by that statement. Is that a bumper sticker? It should be.

          • Arekushieru

            Reading comprehension fail. Or are you saying your penis does not have a function other than being ‘a location’ on your body? Probably not, but then in your magical world only women have mere ‘locations’ while men have actual working, functional body parts.

          • Arekushieru

            Nope, the only ones who do that ARE Pro-Lifers, as I explained below, in separate posts. Pro-Choice prefers not to discriminate, especially not by giving fetuses more rights than anyone born, nor by denying women the same rights that their male counterparts can exercise freely and without interference.

          • goatini

            Rights accrue to citizens at birth. Fetuses aren’t “persons”. But women ARE persons.

          • Arekushieru

            Hmm, gee, how did people come to the conclusion that rape was a violation of one’s body, without being told that they have to inform YOU first, I wonder with baited breath.

          • goatini

            Due Process clause of the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution.

          • Arekushieru

            Putting women in jail for exercising their right to bodily autonomy because a circumstance of biology leads conception to pregnancy in women, namely because the two organs vagina and uterus reside in her body, serves to modify only women’s behaviour for having consensual sex for purposes other than procreation which IS punishment and THAT is the very DEFINITION of misogyny and shows the OPPOSITE of learning from one’s mistakes. Buh-BYE now.

          • Dez

            One state wanted to have a database of all the women who have miscarriages. So that’s a lot more women in jail for Jason.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            LOL. He can take his pick from the baildock.

          • Jason Kindle

            A person who intentionally kills and extracts a baby is not the same as a miscarriage.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Are you aware that a lot of anti-choicers would like miscarriages to be investigated as potential crimes?

          • Jason Kindle

            I was not aware of that.

          • Jennifer Starr

            There’s a lot you’re not aware of, apparently. And you still haven’t explained what a ‘whom’ is.

          • fiona64

            An embryo is not a “baby.” All babies everywhere have been born.

          • Arekushieru

            See, I KNEW you really didn’t care about ‘innocence’. Because, you see, a fetus that was miscarried is JUST as ‘innocent’ as a fetus that was aborted.

          • goatini

            All babies have already been born. No babies have ever been harmed in any way whatsoever in a safe, legal pregnancy termination.

          • Dez

            How would you know the difference unless you invade the privacy of women. So you do want a database of women and treat them like cattle because of your irrational, unscientific, and emotional claims about fetuses. This is why abortion should be dealt by doctors and laymen like you.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            According to what? Link me to a case in the US in which a woman was tried, convicted and incarcerated for having an abortion.

          • Jason Kindle

            Did I say there has been a case?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You said: “anyone who participates in them should be tried in court accordingly.’
            This is the second time I am asking you. According to what? Where is the case law? Where is the precedent?
            I am not your Momma, and I do not think you are cute every time you drool. You said it. Now back it up. What is the penalty in your world for having an abortion?

          • Jason Kindle

            I think you’re confused as usual, I never said there was a case or precedent. Do you always argue against things people don’t say or does it feel empowering?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I asked YOU for the case or precedent, Stupid. Because you said “anyone who participates in them should be tried in court accordingly.”
            Treated according to what? Law? Custom?
            You were just bloviating away and you did not mean anything at all?

          • goatini

            That comment is anti-American and it advocates for stripping female US citizens of their civil, human and Constitutional rights.

        • Jennifer Starr

          Terrorism is the right word. Eric Rudolph, Paul Hill, John Salvi, Scott Roeder and John Brockhoeft—all terrorists. Cheryl Sullenger, who heads Operation Rescue, is a terrorist, She was convicted of trying to firebomb a clinic.

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          Yes. If it is going to kill me, I am killing it first, innocent or guilty. The right to self defense is absolute.
          And I am upheld in that by scripture.
          That is not the definition of terrorism.

          • Jason Kindle

            I’m sorry you are so delusional that you think a baby that comes from you is going to kill you. You may want to get yourself diagnosed.

          • Dez

            You do know women die from pregnancy all the time?

          • expect_resistance

            I’m sure he thinks pregnancy is all sunshine and rainbows. *eyeroll*

          • Jason Kindle

            I don’t think anyone thinks that.

          • expect_resistance

            Then don’t advocate that all pregnancies end in a live birth.

          • lady_black

            You could have stopped with “I don’t think.”

          • expect_resistance

            :)

          • Jason Kindle

            I’m sure they do and that’s very unfortunate, but more people die from legal abortions.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Actually, no, that’s not true. Abortion is 14 times safer than giving birth.

          • Jason Kindle

            I should have been more clear, I was referring to the people inside the mothers.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Your lack of concern for born women is duly noted.

          • Jason Kindle

            Your ability to misjudge me is duly noted.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Tell me how I’m misjudging you, exactly.

          • Jason Kindle

            You accused me for having a lack of concern for woman.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Yes. And?

          • expect_resistance

            From what you’ve said here that would be accurate.

          • Jason Kindle

            Then it would be accurate to say you’ve misjudged me.

          • Jennifer Starr

            So you’re saying that your statements don’t reflect your lack of concern for women? Because I think you’ll find otherwise.

          • Jason Kindle

            I know it’s difficult to understand, but I don’t think anyone who knows me thinks i have a lack of concern for women, I just have more concern for a person who can’t speak.

          • Jennifer Starr

            And you’ve just pretty much proven my point and reduced the woman to a container for the fetus. Thank you.

          • Jason Kindle

            I’m sure i’m not the only one to congratulate you on your ability to exaggerate.

          • Jennifer Starr

            If you care more for the fetus than the born woman carrying it, that is what you’ve reduced her to. And that’s not exaggeration.

          • Jason Kindle

            I’m sure you’re not stupid, but you may want to check out a logic textbook because that simply does not follow.

          • Arekushieru

            You are MORE concerned for the fetus that cannot speak than you are for the woman carrying it, and you don’t see how it follows that you just called a woman a container? WOW. I know someone, here, needs to check out a logic textbook, but it isn’t Jennifer. The fact that a fetus cannot speak, isn’t aware, doesn’t feel, doesn’t think, doesn’t walk, talk, work or support itself, nor has any of the dreams, hopes, desires, wants, needs, wishes, of which, a woman, herself, pretty much has acquired all of them, and you are more concerned about a fetus that had more to do with the existing condition known as pregnancy than the woman has had (if she did have more to do with it, a woman who WANTS to become pregnant would never have any problems with fertility, after all. Oops) and who is (thus) certainly more innocent in the fetus-woman relationship, shows EXACTLY what you think of women. So fucking sorry.

          • goatini

            The forced-birthers see females as uteruses with legs.

          • lady_black

            Exactly. You just proved her point. A fetus can’t speak, nor does one have anything to say. So since you’re “speaking” for something that has nothing to say, please act accordingly and say NOTHING.

          • expect_resistance

            We don’t know you. If you post anti-choice sexist stuff we will call you on it. This is not a personality contest.

          • Jason Kindle

            It very much feels like a contest here.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            No contest. YOU are a LOSER.

          • Arekushieru

            As a Pro-‘Lifer’ you automatically have a lack of concern for women, btw.

          • goatini

            I too have concern for persons who cannot speak. But a fetus is not a person.

          • fiona64

            Not even remotely inaccurate, from where I sit …

          • expect_resistance

            I can only judge what you’ve said not who you are. I have no idea who the hell you are nor do I care. I am commenting on what you have posted.

          • Jennifer Starr

            No, I’d say that everyone here has got your number.

          • goatini

            He doesn’t have a “lack of concern” for females. His “concern” just happens to be a steaming load of misogynistic BS.

          • lady_black

            There are no people inside other people.

          • expect_resistance

            This is an example of you not understanding biology. There are not “people” in a woman’s uterus. A uterus is not a clown car full of people.

          • Jason Kindle

            “There is nothing magical about passing through the birth canal that transforms it from a fetus into a person.”

          • Jennifer Starr

            It’s then a separate individual, no longer connected to someone else’s body.

          • Jason Kindle

            And what exactly changed to the individual that came through the birth canal besides it’s location?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Well after the baby is born, anyone can care for it. Only the woman can be pregnant. I’ve taken care of many a newborn, but I’ve yet to look after someone else’s fetus or uterus for the day. Again, not just a location.

          • Jason Kindle

            So are you now saying that if only one person can take care of it then it’s a fetus but if other people can care for it then it’s an individual?

          • Jennifer Starr

            I’m saying that since only the woman can be pregnant, only she can make the decisions about that pregnancy.

          • Jason Kindle

            But I was asking about the fetus, what exactly changes the fetus into an individual as it comes through the birth canal?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Can you be pregnant for a woman who doesn’t want to be? Me either.

          • Jason Kindle

            I’m sorry, did you mis the question? How does the birth canal magically change the fetus into a person?

          • lady_black

            Magical is a silly term. That trip from intrauterine to extra-uterine life may or may not include a vagina , but results in profound biological changes. Read my explanation above which goes into more detail.

          • Jason Kindle

            What changes?

          • lady_black

            READ MY COMMENT ABOVE. Or would you prefer being told in some OTHER language since you seem not to read English.

          • goatini

            In which language does this numbnuts understand the word BIRTH?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            It becomes individual, Stupid.

          • Arekushieru

            You think the umbilical cord is still attached to adult humans, somehow? Or even neonates? WOW. Sounds like it’s actually the other way around and that the fetus’ component parts get ‘divided down’, don’t they? Now, tell me, what do divided and individual have to do with each other? Hmm?

          • lady_black

            Breathing, mostly.

          • goatini

            BIRTH.

          • lady_black

            That’s a big part of it. A fetus is by definition, NOT an individual. It cannot be an individual until it’s viable outside the uterus.

          • Arekushieru

            Stop reducing the uterus to a mere location. It does a whole FUCK lot more than just house the widdle fetus.

          • lady_black

            Read my explanation of the profound biological changes that take place at the very instant of live birth. I’m not going to keep repeating it. You can find it as a reply to the last time you asked thus same question. Quite a bit other than location changes, including monumental changes in circulation.

          • Jason Kindle

            What, the baby can’t feel or think until it passes through the birth canal? That is quite magical.

          • lady_black

            No it can’t. The fetus exists in such a hypoxic state within the uterus that it’s similar to a person in a coma. When the first breath is taken, the baby wakes up from that previous hypoxic state and becomes fully conscious. And before you mention it, people in comas have periods of wakefulness and sleep too, just no awareness.

          • Jason Kindle

            Please send me a link to this.

          • lady_black

            You want me to “send you a link” to my maternal/fetal health textbook? I can’t. I gave all my textbooks to a girl who was getting ready to start nursing school to save her a few bucks. You might be able to borrow one at a college library, or from a student nurse.

          • Jason Kindle

            Your the expert, find me a link.

          • lady_black

            No. I don’t have to find you a link. Even if I did, it would be moderated out, so I would be wasting my time. YOU do your own homework, little boy. You’ll learn nothing from a link that gets moderated out, now will you?

          • Jason Kindle

            You must feel very emperor calling men you don’t know “little boy”.

          • lady_black

            I love men. You don’t qualify. Real men don’t try to bully women into continuing pregnancies they don’t want, and real men support women doing what they would like with their lives.

          • Jason Kindle

            Real men? Be honest now, are you single? Be honest…

          • Arekushieru

            Why, are you implying that there’s something wrong with being single? Or are you implying that the only good relationship is where one gender (the man) is dominant while the other (being the woman) is submissive? That’s just sick. And you said that you thought both genders were equal people…. Shoulda known that a Pro-Lifer could only be a Pro-LIAR.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I like single. I am never going to be married again. I like sin. I hate married.

          • goatini

            To forced-birthers, a female’s life doesn’t begin title has been transferred from the Church-approved parental male owner to the Church-approved spousal male owner.

          • Arekushieru

            Well, a woman’s ‘life’ meaning that of 1) popping out babies until they die from it, leaving them orphaned by their mother and abandoned by their father (as HeilMary has stated many times), who reverts his Church-approved parental male ownership of his (especially female) children back to the Church, so that pedophile priests can have easy access to them, as well as 2) gestating the ‘pweshus’ widdle life of the fetal ‘baby’ only to give birth to what the Church actually perceives to be a zombie-like ‘born’ baby that has any rights he/she was granted reversed (again, especially if you’re female).

          • lady_black

            Been married 27 years now to the best man in the whole world. Not that there’s anything wrong with being single. I was just as happy when I was single as I am now. There’s a life lesson in there for you. Most people are just about as happy as they make up their minds to be. You’re welcome.

          • Jason Kindle

            So you’re married to the best man in world and it makes no change for you. Another obvious sign of psychotic disorder.

          • lady_black

            That is SO NOT what I said. Where did I say nothing changed? Oops. Never said that. I said I am happily married and was happily single. See, I didn’t get married with the expectation of turning an unhappy person into a happy person. That NEVER works out.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Makes no change for her? What are you babbling about?

          • Jason Kindle

            It’s obvious, but I can talk to you like a child if you’d like. She said, “I was just as happy when I was single as I am now.” So, this means there is.. no… change… in… her… happiness…. in… regards… to… being… married… to… the… best.. man… in… the… world…….

            I’m sure you are still having trouble, so go outside, find the first five year old you see, and ask em to explain it to you.

          • Jennifer Starr

            I have a feeling that a five year old is precisely who I’m talking to now. Though actually, I’ve known five-year-olds with a bit more sense, because that’s not what lady_black said at all. .

          • Jason Kindle

            Just go and ask them, you’ll be amazed what they can teach you. You might feel a little inadequate talking to them, but you’ll be learning. Give it a try.

          • Jennifer Starr

            If you’re not happy with yourself when you’re single, you’re not going to be any happier with yourself when you’re married. You have to be happy with yourself either way. Happiness comes from inside you.

          • Jason Kindle

            Happiness comes from inside you? I’m sure that’s helpful to you in your padded room.

          • Jennifer Starr

            You’re honestly telling me that you don’t know what that means?

          • Jason Kindle

            Of course I know what it means, it’s the babbleing of schizophrenic. I never seen so many bizarre things said on one forum. This has been an experience to remember. I’m learning a lot about the mindset of a hardcore pro-choicer.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Why is it bizarre?

          • Jason Kindle

            Not knowing the difference of existence and nonexistence. Wonderful things have no effect on happiness, being birthed defines personhood. This is a little bizarre bubble of the internet I don’t plan to be returning to for a while.

          • Jennifer Starr

            So you’re completely dependent on external factors and other people to make you happy?

          • fiona64

            Don’t let the door hit your ignorant ass on the way out, little boy …

          • Arekushieru

            Nope, YOU are the one saying the most bizarre things. But, of course, it takes a Pro-Lifer not to recognize that in THEMSELVES.

          • goatini

            Oh, we have a regular Sartre here.

          • fiona64

            So, you really think that you do not create your own happiness?

            Boy, it’s no wonder you’re miserable.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Flagged–for offensive references to mental illness and for being a rude, unintelligent, thoroughly obnoxious jerk.

          • fiona64

            Twice.

          • goatini

            Thrice.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Boy, you are ignorant. But you are 12 so it comes with the territory.

            We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves.
            Buddha

          • Arekushieru

            So, basically, you’re saying that Pro-Lifers are materialistic and Pro-Choicers are not. First time I’ve ever seen a Pro-Lifer ADMIT that. Also, what is WITH you and your bashing of people with mental illnesses? Another admission that Pro-Lifers are simply bigots?

          • goatini

            Goddess, I can’t wait for spring break to be over.

          • fiona64

            He’s pissed because the only relationship he’s ever had involves his right hand and an old sock.

          • lady_black

            He who searches for happiness in exogenous locations will never find happiness. – Lady Black

          • Jason Kindle

            You quoted yourself, with your name attached to it? That’s hilarious.

          • lady_black

            Maybe a dictionary would help you. By definition, one cannot ‘quote’ oneself.

          • Jason Kindle

            And you managed to do it anyway.

          • lady_black

            No. But you manage to mangle the English language on a consistent basis.

          • lady_black

            Ask your ESL instructor.

          • fiona64

            You poor, slow child …

          • Arekushieru

            Yeah, he seems to have trouble with quite a few word definitions.

          • fiona64

            I think we all know why you’re single …

            And if you’re not clear on the reason, go outside, find the first five-year-old you see, and ask them to explain it to you.

          • goatini

            This kid is going to freak out if he ever gets to see a real live VJJ.

          • fiona64

            Are you really so stupid as to think that one must be married in order to be happy, or that one requires a partner to be happy?

            No longer you’re such an irritable jerk … you think you’re owed a woman to make babies for you so that you can be a man.

            Seek help.

          • Arekushieru

            Still diagnosing people, even after you’ve been asked to stop? Also, happiness isn’t the only sign of change. THIS is why even people, women especially, who aren’t searching for their ‘one true love’ as they’ve been taught to do from the cradle, get married/enter into a committed relationship: because they realize they can experience new things with their partner(s).

          • goatini

            News flash: marriage is not the be-all end-all for women any more. 1955 called, it wants its BS back.

          • fiona64

            What’s the matter, widdow boy, did the big bad wady hurt your widdow feewings?

          • expect_resistance

            It’s not any of your business.

          • goatini

            Oh great, one of these big babies with the old “don’t like ME? then you MUST be SINGLE” BS.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Emperor?

          • Jason Kindle

            No, you’re not an emperor, can you answer my other questions?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            We know you are not old enough to have had an intimate adult relationship with a woman. You know shitall about human sexuality.

          • fiona64

            You are a little boy.

          • fiona64

            That’s rich, coming from the dumbass who demands that other people look up stuff to support his claims …

          • goatini

            Still waiting for that reputable link about the safe, legal pregnancy terminations performed just before birth that you allege as, ahem, “fact”.

          • fiona64

            I’ll do your homework for you this time, loser-boy:

            Royal College of Obstetricians & Gynecologists, 2010, Summary, para.2, “Furthermore, there is increasing evidence that the fetus never experiences a state of true wakefulness in utero and is kept, by the presence of its chemical environment, in a continuous sleep-like unconsciousness or sedation.”

            Fetal Awareness: Review of Research and Recommendations for Practice. Report of a Working Party. Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists. March 2010.

            2. Fitzgerald, 2005, p.513, col.1, para.2, “Despite the existence of sensory reflexes from the first trimester of human fetal life, it is unlikely that the fetus is ever awake or aware and, therefore, able to truly experience pain, due to high levels of endogenous neuroinhibitors, such as adenosine and pregnanolone, which are produced in the feto-placental unit and contribute to fetal sleep states144. In preterm infants below 32 weeks most pain responses, including facial expressions, seem to be largely subcortical145.”

            Fitzgerald M. The Development of Nociceptive Circuits. Nature Reviews: Neuroscience. 6 (2005) 507-520.

            Mellor, 2005, p.464, col.2, para.4, “We conclude that there is currently no strong evidence to suggest that the fetus is ever awake, even transiently; rather, it is actively kept asleep (and unconscious) by a variety of endogenous inhibitory factors. Thus, despite the presence of intact nociceptive pathways from around mid-gestation, the critical aspect of cortical awareness in the process of pain perception is missing.”

            Mellor DJ, Diesch TJ, Gunn AJ, Bennet L. The importance of ‘awareness’ for understanding fetal pain. Brain Research Reviews. 49 (2005) 455-471.

            I hope that three scholarly citations are adequate for your ignorant self.

          • fiona64

            Well, at that point even a dummy like you can look after the born infant. Only the woman can be pregnant.

          • Arekushieru

            Seriously, YOU were the one asking us if we didn’t know what an umbilical cord was? Here, YOU are demonstrating that you have no idea what it is. URP.

          • goatini

            BIRTH. That event that forced-birther males like to pretend doesn’t even exist.

          • Jason Kindle

            What do you mean? Do you not know what an umbilical cord is?

          • Jennifer Starr

            You do know they cut that, right?

          • Jason Kindle

            So they have to cut it and then it’s an individual?

          • lady_black

            No. Actually they cut it AFTER the fetus becomes a person, because the veins and artery that supply it cease to function and the cord quickly begins to necrose. A tiny part is left clamped and attached, and what is left DOES quickly become necrotic and falls off. Usually within the first week or so of life. To laymen like yourself, the scar formed by that process is a “belly button.” I call it the umbilicus.

          • Jason Kindle

            Oh, because the lady said it was a fetus as long as it was attached to the mother. I guess you ladies aren’t on the same page.

          • Jennifer Starr

            No, not quite what I said.

          • Jason Kindle

            “It’s then a separate individual, no longer connected to someone else’s body.”

          • Arekushieru

            Yes, reading comprehension is quite lost on you. It was explained to you, after all, that the umbilical cord has very little to do with what connection a fetus has to the uterus. So sorry.

          • lady_black

            She did say something like that, but at birth the umbilical cord is no longer REALLY attached to the placenta because circulation is ceased. The circulation through the umbilical artery and both umbilical veins are the REAL attachment. Once they stop functioning at birth, the umbilical cord is nothing but a piece of dying tissue and there is no biological connection.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Thank you–I’m not in the medical profession and you’re much better at explaining this than me. :)

          • Jason Kindle

            I’m sorry, it REALLY is attached for minutes after birth, in fact there are many studies that show it is beneficial to keep the cord attached for several minutes after birth.

          • lady_black

            I watched quite a few babies being born, kiddo. The first thing that is done after birth is the umbilical cord being clamped and severed. There is no medical reason to keep it attached. It is no longer serving any function.

          • fiona64

            Then surely you can cite some …

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            No. Jews have it right:

            Jewish law not only permits, but in some circumstances requires abortion. Where the mother’s life is in jeopardy because of the unborn child, abortion is mandatory.

            An unborn child has the status of “potential human life” until the majority of the body has emerged from the mother. Potential human life is valuable, and may not be terminated casually, but it does not have as much value as a life in existence. The Talmud makes no bones about this: it says quite bluntly that if the fetus threatens the life of the mother, you cut it up within her body and remove it limb by limb if necessary, because its life is not as valuable as hers. But once the greater part of the body has emerged, you cannot take its life to save the mother’s, because you cannot choose between one human life and another. – Judaism 101

          • Jason Kindle

            You do realize people will look back on that statement and wonder what was wrong with this generation, don’t you?

          • Jennifer Starr

            What generation?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Something along the lines of “Dear God, they really cut umbilical cords?” No, I think they’ll still be doing that. Actually I always thought people would look back on my generation and wonder what was up with all that big hair, but hey, the New Wave music was awesome. You wouldn’t really remember that, though.

          • fiona64

            You are a prime example of why I think homeschooling should be illegal.

          • goatini

            Your statements? Yes.

          • fiona64

            You mean, the thing that makes a fetus part of the pregnant woman and not a separate individual until the fetus is a born infant and the cord is cut?

          • lady_black

            Oh but there definitely IS a lot biological (not magical) that happens at the moment of birth that makes a fetus a person. For one thing, the circulatory routes change, enabling the oxygenation of the blood. Just that instantaneous closure of the holes in the heart that are normal during fetal life is monumental. During fetal life, most blood is shunted away from the lungs. At the moment of birth, ALL the blood goes to the lungs. The umbilical artery and both umbilical veins are cut off from the placenta, and the umbilical cord gets severed. Try that BEFORE birth and see what happens. You really ARE dumb. I suspect for you, the science of reproduction in mammals never quite gets past “egg meets sperm.” And here you are, arguing maternal/fetal health with someone who has actually studied it.

          • fiona64

            Yeah, actually, there is. It’s called *legality.*

          • goatini

            Leave it to a male (and particularly a forced-birther male) to completely ignore that critical event called BIRTH.

            But then again, they don’t think women are persons, either, so they don’t have to care about what birth actually is.

          • goatini

            Women become mothers when the pregnancy results in birth.

          • expect_resistance

            Bullpucky, got a source on that one? No, because it’s not true.

          • Jason Kindle

            Well you have to count the the person in the womb.

          • fiona64

            All persons, everywhere, have been born. A fetus is not a person.

          • Jason Kindle

            So a fetus moments before being born is not a person?

          • lady_black

            Legally? No. “Persons” have birth certificates. A fetus born dead never gets one. Notice that they have “Certificate of Live Birth” at the top.

          • Jason Kindle

            Are you really going to depend on what’s legal to define what a person is?

          • lady_black

            That’s the only definition that matters.

          • Jason Kindle

            Really? Are you sure about that? Is it only the American definition that matters, legally?

          • lady_black

            As applied to legal matters, YES.

          • Jason Kindle

            And you let what is legal define what is moral to you?

          • lady_black

            No. I get to define what’s moral to myself. The law only defines what is legal.

          • fiona64

            What makes you think you have the right to decide what is or is not “moral” for anyone but yourself? Some people think blood transfusions are immoral; should they be allowed to make that call for you?

            Get someone to help you clear up your cranio-rectal inversion, Jason …

          • Arekushieru

            You do, too. After all, criminal rape is illegal, and I’m sure you believe it’s immoral for that very reason.

          • goatini

            Sounds like the argument of a rapist.

          • Arekushieru

            I’ll let you in on a little secret, even when and where abortion was/is illegal, fetuses weren’t/aren’t considered persons, and that’s true across the WORLD. Oops.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Still waiting for your definition of “person.” Man up and answer.

          • expect_resistance

            Biology and reality.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Yes. You have been ASKED MORE THAN ONCE what makes a fetus a person. You have not replied.

          • Arekushieru

            That’s HOW personhood is defined. It’s a legal term, like murder.

          • Arekushieru

            So, you’re saying you WANT to define a fetus born dead as a person? Because that’s what distinguishes a live baby being a person while a dead fetus is not. URP.

          • fiona64

            Given that personhood is a legal status, yes.

          • goatini

            By all means, let’s depend on some forced-birther nitwit’s nattering BS, instead of FACTS and the LAW.

          • fiona64

            Yes, dummy, that is correct. It is not a person. Personhood is a legal status, and it comes with *birth.*

          • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

            Flagged for trolling.

          • goatini

            Correct. Rights and citizenship accrue to persons at birth.

          • lady_black

            There are no people in wombs. 100% of all people have already been born.

          • Jason Kindle

            Again, what would you call that thing moments before being born?

          • lady_black

            A fetus.

          • Jason Kindle

            So you have no problem aborting a fetus moments before being born?

          • lady_black

            That would be like having a problem with how unicorn shit is disposed of. Neither one EVER HAPPENS.

          • Jason Kindle

            Oh wow, I thought you might have been more knowledgable in this area. It has happened, many times.

          • lady_black

            Never. Zero abortions are done moments before birth.

          • Jason Kindle

            Don’t argue with me, it takes 5 minutes to look it up on google. Give it a try.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Don’t tell people not to argue with you, kiddo.

          • Jason Kindle

            Just saying the information is out there. Doesn’t take a genius, or are you ladies too old to know how to use google?

          • lady_black

            You’re talking out your ass. NO ABORTIONS are being done during the delivery process. An abortion, by definition is done prior to viability. Termination of pregnancy after viability is a DELIVERY. Look it up yourself. I already went to school for this stuff.

          • Jason Kindle

            I didn’t say before delivery, let’s pay attention.

          • lady_black

            Delivery, birth, same thing.

          • fiona64

            Again, if the information is out there, you can provide the citation. You’re the one making the (asinine) claim, after all … so hop to it, little boy. Don’t expect us to do your homework for you.

          • goatini

            Reputable link or it never happened. You made the BS allegation, back it up or back off.

          • expect_resistance

            Flagged for abuse.

          • fiona64

            Then surely you can provide the citation. It is incumbent upon the person making the affirmative claim to provide the evidence, Jason. I’ll bet you’re one of those guys who buys term papers rather than doing his own homework.

          • goatini

            “Don’t argue with me”

            trying to silence truth telling women, I see

          • fiona64

            If it has happened, many times, then surely you have a citation from a reputable medical journal?

          • goatini

            Reputable link or it never happened. I won’t be holding my breath because there ARE no reputable links.

          • fiona64

            A fetus.

            Once again, I find myself wondering why the anti-choice are so offended by medical terminology.

          • goatini

            A fetus.

          • expect_resistance

            There is no “person” in the womb. This is a clear example that you do not understand biology.

          • Arekushieru

            Why, because you say so? Do you say the same thing to rape victims about their rapists? If not, hypocrite.

          • goatini

            No persons “in the womb”. Embryos and fetuses are not persons, not citizens, and have no rights.

          • lady_black

            Um… NO.

          • Arekushieru

            If a woman does not have more value than a fetus to you, she has LESS value than a fetus, to you.

          • fiona64

            Citation needed. Either that, or an admission that you’re a liar.

            Why, well there is this: http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/womens-health/articles/2012/01/23/abortion-safer-for-women-than-childbirth-study-claims

            Quote: The risk of death associated with a full-term pregnancy and delivery is 8.8 deaths per 100,000, while the risk of death linked to legal abortion is 0.6 deaths per 100,000 women, according to the study. That means a woman carrying a baby to term is 14 times more likely to die than a woman who chooses to have a legal abortion, the study finds.

          • fiona64

            Nope, Already explained numerous times why this is not so, and why abortion is safer with pregnancy (with links to studies to boot). But hey, go on waving your big dumb paw and making pronouncements about things that you’ll never have to worry about experiencing personally.

            Me? I’m beginning to wish I could give you just three or four *hours* of the hyperemesis gravidarum that almost killed me. I think it would be educational for you to have to vomit that much, let alone have it going on for the vast majority of a pregnancy.

          • goatini

            Absolutely and incontrovertibly 100% FALSE. Many more pregnancy related deaths, than deaths from safe, legal pregnancy termination. Safe, legal pregnancy termination is over 13x more safe than ANY full term pregnancy. FACT.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Childbirth is one of the two leading causes of maternal death worldwide, Stupid. The other is illegal abortion.
            Go and do your homework and have a snack.

          • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

            And it is the third leading cause of death overall for women. Only behind heart disease and a new leading cause of death: pollution.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Thank you. Strengthens the argument that abortion/contraception is a human right. Who suggests it is somehow immoral to treat heart disease or COPD?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Pregnancies can be quite deadly. Even relatively uncomplicated pregnancies carry risks.The US is currently #50 in maternal mortality, which means that 49 countries are better at keeping pregnant women alive than we are.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Actually, I am diagnosed. I still make more sense than you do. And you have used my disability – mental illness – against me as argument.
            And you fully expect to be seen as caring and compassionate. You are more delusional than I am.
            I am flagging you for this abuse.
            I rarely flag anyone. You have to be a real anus of the flaming kind.

          • Jason Kindle

            Sounds like something you need to address with your therapist.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Sounds like something you need to stop running your ignorant mouth about.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            That makes 3 or 4 flags from me.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Me too .

          • expect_resistance

            Really? STFU

          • expect_resistance

            I understand. I have a mental illness and (diagnosed with several things OCD, depression, PTSD, etc.) I get really sick of it being used against me in an argument. I may have an illness but I’m sane.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Me too. I write outloud about my condtion. My therapist joked that my disease has become an asset. LOL. Sure it has.
            Time for all us nuts to come out of the closet so the cops will stop killing us and folks will stop dissing us.
            http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/2013/01/did-nancy-lanzas-doctors-ask-her-about.html

          • Jason Kindle

            I’m amazed how you sympathetic of people with you own condition and anyone who disagrees with you is stupid.

          • Jennifer Starr

            What are you talking about? You’re the one who’s been attacking Plum and making references to her disability. Not the other way around.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Stop acting stupid.

          • fiona64

            No one has said you were stupid, we said you were behaving stupidly. There is a difference. You might want to learn that.

          • lady_black

            I have a free diagnosis for you. Autism spectrum.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I think so. Something.

          • fiona64

            No, I think he’s just an asshole.

          • Arekushieru

            To both you and expect_resistance, I have been diagnosed with something called dysthymia (which is a hormonal disorder resembling depression), anxiety and a non-verbal learning disability (which is akin to autism and means I have difficulty reading verbal cues).

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Thank you so much for sharing that. Time for all of us brain different folks to come out, I think. Takes courage though. There are a lot of turds like Jason around.

          • expect_resistance

            I like that “brain different folks.” We are stronger together. Big hugs :)))))

          • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

            My favorite blogpost of all time on the subject of depression came from the Frisky’s Jessica Wakeman when she opened up about her mental illness. That is what assured me that I was far from alone.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I am going to try to find it. Thank you.

          • Arekushieru

            Jovan’s awesome. I’m pretty sure I know this person on Facebook, too. They’ve made some pretty awesome posts!

          • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

            Yea, this is me. I am on Facebook, but it is not linked to my Disqus account — which I use on many, many sites including this one, The Frisky, Aiken Area Progressive (which I am the admin of), xoJane and Raw Story.

          • expect_resistance

            I hear you. I’ve been diagnosed with dysthymia too. I didn’t know it was a hormonal disorder but that would make sense.

            Sorry this is so long but it’s really cool to have other people to share this with here. What’s annoying is getting different conflicting info from different doctors. They couldn’t agree if I had bi-polar II or depression with anxiety, dysthymia, OCD or PTSD. The mental health care system is often not helpful. But, after years of therapy and going though different psychiatrists and therapists I have finally found a workable solution to the right medication and the right amount of talk therapy sessions. I love that my therapist is a pro-choice feminist. She has made all the difference. :)

          • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

            Exactly. And not only that, but it is time to start using our purchasing power to boycott businesses and bring down businesses that stigmatize mental illness.

          • fiona64

            Women die of pregnancy-related complications every day in this country, Jason. We’re #50 in maternal mortality, and getting *worse.* Terminating a pregnancy is 14 times safer than gestating one. But you just wave your big dumb paw and demand that women risk their life and limb to gestate in order to satisfy YOU?

            What an ego you have.

          • lady_black

            One of my pregnancies almost killed me. One of my mother’s too. She had an abortion. I was just lucky I had access to good medical care.

          • Jason Kindle

            Glad someone didn’t abort you before being born.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Would you rather that her mother had died during her pregnancy?

          • lady_black

            Not like I would have known the difference. Or you either. I’m glad as a ten year old child that I wasn’t going to bury my mom. I guess you think I ought to feel bad about that. I assure you I don’t feel bad in the least. There was never going to be any “baby.” Just a dead mother.

          • Jason Kindle

            Just be glad you weren’t aborted.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Are you glad that she wasn’t left motherless at ten years old? Because I sure as hell am.

          • Arekushieru

            Why? Do you think that she should feel just as entitled as you to her mother’s body? As I said, below, my mom is Pro-Choice not only because she decided to have an abortion but also because she decided to have her two BIOLOGICAL children (myself and my sibling). OBTW, it would have been PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for my mother to have my sibling, if she had not had the abortion prior to that. So, you’re saying that we should regret the fact that my mother had my sibling? HELL to the fuck NO.

          • lady_black

            What difference would it make if I had been?

          • Jason Kindle

            Amazing you got three up votes for that comment. But wow now you’ve shown yourself to an utter imbecile as you don’t even know what difference it makes to not be alive. Crackpot!

          • Jennifer Starr

            Exactly what difference does it make?

          • Jason Kindle

            Another quack that doesn’t know the difference between existence and nonexistence. Duly noted. Explains more than you know.

          • Jennifer Starr

            I know that lady_black’s mother is alive because she had an abortion and was able to be there for her daughter while she was growing up. Which is a good thing.

          • lady_black

            Do you think you would really know the difference if you didn’t exist? Before I was born, there was no ME, and after I die, there will be no ME again. The world moves on.

          • Arekushieru

            Existence and non-existence are virtually the same, if that’s what you actually want to talk about. However, if you are talking about non-existence being a terrible thing because… Old people! Dying! then you’re not talking about non-existence, at all. Which is one of the reasons why I tell people that being aborted is more compassionate than being born and dying later in life. It not only ends an existence before one even became AWARE that they existed, it also ends an existence before ANYONE ELSE became attached to it. Whoops?

          • lady_black

            There are far worse things than non-existence.

          • fiona64

            If she had been aborted, neither she nor anyone else would know the difference … because embryos are NOT SENTIENT.

            You really are dreadfully stupid, you know …

          • fiona64

            What an asinine, bumper-sticker slogan. If that’s the best you’ve got, it’s no wonder you come across as such a simpleton.

          • goatini

            I see little boy here has never known a woman who was at risk from death from pregnancy.

          • P. McCoy

            Don’t debate, report supporters of Whie supremacy and anti abortion terrorism to the FBI and Homeland Security. Prescribe Solitary confinement. No visits from. Frank Pavone, or EWTN, Jason.

        • fiona64

          It’s pretty clear that Klundt’s actions are intended to terrorize women who were getting their medical care at this clinic … and it is likewise pretty clear that you are a-okay with that. Sicko.

          • Jason Kindle

            And 1 in 3 mothers have abortions now? Imagine the terror a baby is feeling with those vegas odds, that’s terror, except the poor thing doesn’t know yet.

          • Jennifer Starr

            The terror? Really? Are we really getting into this kind of histrionics?

          • Jason Kindle

            I hope not, please tell your friends on here.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Please tell them what?

          • Jason Kindle

            About your concern of histrionics.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Yeah, you’re pretty much incoherent at this point. Next you’ll be asking me to cut your arm off again.

          • fiona64

            Oh, sweetie. We see histrionics all of the time from your sort. It’s really all you’ve got, after all.

          • goatini

            Get over yours.

          • Arekushieru

            She’s not the one falling into histrionics claiming that a fetus feels terror when it’s aborted based on a debunked myth of the anti-choice movement.

          • Jennifer Starr

            And Zachary Klundt is a terrorist. I’m sorry you have trouble accepting facts.

          • lady_black

            You realize you’re anthropomorphizing an insensate lump of tissue that has less self-awareness than a fly, right?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Maybe he writes those cheesy little diaries too.

          • fiona64

            Remember that dude who had the creepy-assed anti-choice fetus cartoon? Ugh.

          • Jennifer Starr

            I’m betting he reads that, too. That was creepy.

          • goatini

            Gary Cangemi. I very much enjoyed ripping him and his vicious misogyny up here back when he was trolling RHRC.

          • Jason Kindle

            Weird how woman call it a lump of tissue when they want to throw it away and do everything to protect it when they want to keep it.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Yeah it’s funny how pregnancy decisions get to be made by the pregnant woman. It’s almost like it’s inside her and directly affecting her body, huh?

          • Jason Kindle

            More like it’s funny how a person is considered a valuable weather the mother wants to keep it or not.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Weather? 60 degrees and clear, thanks for asking. And no, junior, you still don’t get to make other women’s medical decisions for them.

          • Jason Kindle

            People like me already have made women’s medical decisions, this is why women can’t have abortions in the 39th week. Yay, progress!

          • lady_black

            Actually they can. If the fetus is dead, the pregnancy can be aborted. It’s really more a delivery than an abortion, when done that late.

          • Jennifer Starr

            And you do what for a living? Doctor?

          • fiona64

            He probably flips burgers.

          • Arekushieru

            So, you’re celebrating your misogyny openly, now? Besides, all YOU people did was ensure that a fetus would not be extracted from the uterus intact. Putting a woman at greater risk for threats to her health and life. Of course, it’s no problem when it can be used to affect only women, now ISN’T it?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            A pregnancy can be ended at the 39th week by inducing labor. That would be safer than aborting most likely. By the 39th week we have a wanted pregnancy so what normal woman would abort, you freak? However, if the pregnancy will kill the woman, the fetus can be cut up inside her to save her life.

            A woman can have an abortion in the 39th week if she self aborts. Who can stop her? And who would punish her? No one. Why? Compassion and medicine. You are stupid. But you want, like all stupid people, to be in charge.
            http://disqus.com/home/#discussion/rhrealitycheck/democracy_now_interviews_susan_cahill_of_the_vandalized_clinic_in_montana/reply-1309362882

          • fiona64

            No one is seeking an abortion in the 39th week … except in your masturbatory fantasies.

          • Arekushieru

            Value has nothing to do with it. If it DID, you have just told us, YET AGAIN, that you value women less than fetuses. Sick.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            What makes a fetus a “person?” You have not answered that yet.

          • goatini

            Fetuses are not “persons”. Women are persons.

          • lady_black

            I don’t kid myself. The loss of a wanted pregnancy is devastating. But nobody has a funeral for their Kotex.

          • Arekushieru

            And Pro-‘Life’ women keep their pregnancies not because they want them. That’s Pro-Choice women’s prerogative. Because they realize they HAVE a choice, which IS, yes, terminating OR maintaining it. Oopsies?

          • fiona64

            The reality is that an embryo is an insensate clump of tissue, regardless of the species. I’m sorry that you missed that day in high school biology class.

          • Shan

            “Weird how woman call it a lump of tissue when they want to throw it away and do everything to protect it when they want to keep it.”

            Not at all weird. Those were exactly my feelings when considering what to do about an unexpected pregnancy.

          • goatini

            Weird how you think a single-cell fertilized egg is a “person” but a woman between menarche and menopause is not.

          • fiona64

            Considering that an embryo is not conscious, it doesn’t feel diddly-squat. Thanks for demonstrating, once again, your total ignorance of the development of viviparous vertebrates.

          • Shan

            Actually, 2/3 of women having an abortion already have at least one child. Did you not know that?

          • Jason Kindle

            No, another woman on here said it was 1/3, she seemed to really know what she was talking about. A lot of convicting information on here.

          • Jennifer Starr

            1 in three have had abortions. 66% of those one in three already have children.

          • fiona64

            He’s not too bright about statistics … or much of anything else.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Half the time he can’t even construct a proper sentence. Misused words and missing definite articles–just bizarre.

          • lady_black

            The statistic is that by age 45, 1 in every three women will have had AN abortion. That doesn’t mean that 1 in three pregnancies are aborted, or that 1 in three women will have aborted every pregnancy. Gee, language isn’t your strong suit, and neither is math. What is it you do know something about? I hope you’re still in school.

          • expect_resistance

            Correction, one and three WOMEN have had an abortion. Having an abortion is not terrorism or genocide. Women will decide when and if to have children. Making abortion illegal will not stop women from having abortions. Terrorizing doctors, clinic staff, and women seeking reproductive health care will not stop women from controlling their own fertility and planning when to or not have children. Women are not broodmares we are not here to breed as our most important function in life.

        • Arekushieru

          As I’ve said, a woman is innocent, so you support terrorizing ACTUAL innocent women with clinic protesters that verbally abuse, threaten and shake graphic images at them, by bombing, vandalizing, murdering and maiming the doctors that provide essential healthcare for them, not always JUST abortions, ESPECIALLY if it’s at a Planned Parenthood, because that happens very RARELY AND by trying to ensure that women undergo a hideous form of torture after WEEKS of tormenting them with the introduction of restrictive new laws, especially when it’s a younger woman who was just raped by a person she knows and who, normally, has a smaller pelvis making childbirth more difficult. Yup, you ARE sick.

        • goatini

          Fetuses cannot, by definition, be “innocent”. Innocence requires sentience in order for it to exist.

    • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

      Klundt has white supremacist buddies. He has guns. He took patient files. He even destroyed the Art.

      • Jason Kindle

        ok.

        • Jennifer Starr

          That’s all you have to say is ‘okay’? It sounds to me like you give tacit support to terrorists like this. Are you a member of the terrorist organization The Army of God?

          • fiona64

            I think he means that Klundt’s actions are okay … because, after all, they only affect women.

          • Jennifer Starr

            From reading some of his tweets, I’d say that he’s probably fine with Mr. Klundt’s white supremacist views as well.

          • fiona64

            OMG … you’re right. What a sick, racist, misogynistic POS.

      • expect_resistance

        That is very scary.

    • fiona64

      Another anti-choice male, proving how easy it is to demand that women assume medical risk that he’ll never have to …

      • Jason Kindle

        1.21 abortions each year in America. Every one of those was a medical risk?

        • Jennifer Starr

          Every pregnancy carries medical risks. But you’re comfortable with demanding that women take these risks, secure in the knowledge that you’ll never have to take them yourself. ‘Pro-lifers’ are big on sacrifice, as long as it’s made by someone else.

          • Jason Kindle

            Rather than killing a person, maybe woman should consider those risks before having sex?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Yeah, because all women are psychic and know exactly how their pregnancies will go–or not, because that’s not the way it works. Give me a fucking break.

          • Jason Kindle

            Exactly, if they’re are not psychic then why take the risk of killing the person inside them? Oh because because they can just abort the person.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Well when you get pregnant, you get to choose what risks you’ll take as well.

          • Jason Kindle

            Well, like all my decisions, I consider the life of myself and of others.

          • Jennifer Starr

            But other women’s pregnancies are not your decision. Only your own.

          • Jason Kindle

            I’m of the belief that all people have rights, not just the unwanted ones.

          • Jennifer Starr

            And that has what to do with other women’s pregnancies?

          • alfie0077

            It is not possible to respond logically to a person who is Catholic. They have had brain removed, dogma inserted and never will be able to think again. Do not vote for Any Catholic R or D and save the nation, save the Constitution, and save your rights as a woman.

          • goatini

            Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, and Sonia Sotomayor all support women’s civil, human and Constitutional rights.

            The problem is with ALL radical theocratic fundamentalist misogynists, regardless of faith affiliation.

            Stop spamming and deliberately derailing.

          • Arekushieru

            YOU’RE the one whose saying that women have no rights regardless of whether they are wanted or not, and that fetuses have MORE rights than anyone born regardless of whether or not they are wanted.

          • fiona64

            Yes, all persons have rights. And all persons are born.

            When you afford rights to an embryo the size of a jellybean (the point at which the majority of abortions occur), you are taking away the rights of the born, sapient, sentient woman. But that’s okay with you, because the woman isn’t really a person in your mind … she’s no different from an EasyBake Oven. It’s her job to make babies, just like it’s the job of the EasyBake Oven to make tiny cakes.

          • goatini

            Rights accrue to citizens at birth.

          • P. McCoy

            This is like arguing with a person in a straight jacket that believes that they are Napoleon. Or a member of a cult. Yes, Catholicism with its you can never leave us, even if we excommunicate you is a cult.

          • Arekushieru

            How is that different from women who decide to have an abortion or who DECIDE to continue the pregnancy? Hmm?

          • fiona64

            Then why don’t you allow women the same freedom, little Jason? The majority of women seeking to terminate pregnancies are married, in their 30s, and already have at least one child. I daresay that a woman you’ve never even met knows her situation a whole lot better than you do, and does not need your sanctimonious “advice” on what medical decisions she can make.

          • alfie0077

            Jason is a brain dead zombie Vatican slave. No brain. No need of any stinking Constitution. The Catholics really like the perverts in the black sacks that only know dogma.

          • alfie0077

            Jason, back again with the Vatican brain dead stuff. Please go to italy, be happy, just go. There is a document in the USA called the Constitution, You will never like it, so please just go.

          • Arekushieru

            If they are not psychic then why take the risk of killing the person that rapes them? Oh, because they can just defend themselves from a violation of their bodies! WOW, see how that works????

          • fiona64

            You are doing a fabulous job of proving my earlier point, you know; it’s easy to sit there as a male who will never be affected and make absolutely moronic statements about what women should or should not do.

          • alfie0077

            It is the Catholic males that are in congress and senate that think women should just live like the pervert in the black sack says. Vote every Catholic out of office, save the Constitution, save the nation ,and save your ability to decide for yourself. There are a few more D Catholics than R Catholics. Just do not vote for a Catholic.

          • goatini

            John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi, Sonia Sotomayor, and many other Catholic politicians and judges, know the difference between their personal beliefs and United States law.

            Harry Reid knows the difference between his personal Mormon beliefs and United States law.

            The problem has nothing to do with any individual’s personal faith and beliefs, and everything to do with the fact that the United States is not a theocracy.

          • goatini

            Zygotes, blastocysts, embryos, and fetuses are NOT persons.

          • alfie0077

            Jason is a brain dead zombie Vatican slave. No brain. No need of any stinking Constitution. The Catholics really like the perverts in the black sacks that only know dogma. And I do not know if his brain dead characteristics come from inheritance or environment.

          • goatini

            Flagged for repeated spamming and deliberate derailing. The problem is with radical theocratic fundamentalist misogynists of all stripes. NOTHING to do with “all Catholics”.

          • lady_black

            YOU do not tell ME what to think or whether to have sex. GOT THAT?? Are we clear?

          • Jason Kindle

            Get some birth control.

          • lady_black

            Don’t need it. Had my tubes tied at 26 and my uterus surgically removed at 47. If I get pregnant, look for a new star in the east, because that would require a true miracle.

          • Shan

            You crack me up.

          • Arekushieru

            Funny, because your buddies on this site were just arguing that women should be restricted from accessing it. Not on the same page, are you? And not all forms of birth control affect all women equally. Why don’t YOU get some birth control, that way you will not have to worry nearly as much about an unplanned pregnancy with a woman with whom YOU enter into a relationship. But, of course, ALL the onus must be placed on the woman. Sex everywhere, all the time for men. Shame, stigmatization and outing for all their female sexual partners. The ‘responsibility card’ is never played for men. But, whether she’s married or an unwed mother, a mother who is a person of colour or white, had an abortion, relinquished the baby for adoption or kept the pregnancy, ALL of a woman’s choices are held up for scrutiny. Condoms are cheaper than most other forms of birth control, but the onus is on the woman to be on the pill, have an IUD or protect herself some other way. UGH. And you fucking people wonder why we get tired of all of your misogynistic bullshit?

          • fiona64

            Get a brain.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            No thank you. I will have earth shaking thigh melting hot sex. I will use birth control. If I become pregannt, I will give birth or abort as I see fit. Not as YOU see fit.
            The asexual and incapable must not make rules for sexual.

          • Arekushieru

            Asexual, here, but I will never make rules that restrict SEXUAL women’s freedoms.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Celibate here but looking. Tending toward the asexual out of sheer convenience. I like my alone. I do not make rules for consensual sexual behavior either. Edited my comment because it was too snarky at others expense.

          • alfie0077

            Vote every Catholic out and save the Constitution, save the nation, and save your ability to do sex like you like it.

          • goatini

            Flagged for derailing. The problem is radical theocratic fundamentalist misogynists of all stripes.

          • alfie0077

            Obviously you are not one of the brain dead Catholics. Vote every Catholic out and save the Constitution, save the nation, and save your ability to do sex like you like it.

          • Arekushieru

            Um, the point just went RIGHT over your head, didn’t it? You are the one saying women should consider those risks before having sex, while knowing that you will never have to face such a decision, yourself, which is ‘kinda’ (just ‘kinda’) similar to saying that women have to assume the risks while knowing that you, yourself, will never have to assume them. And that’s sexism BORDERING, at the very least, on misogyny.

            And, here he is, proving the very thing that he protested in an earlier post, that he cared about all genders as people. Obviously not the case for WOMEN.

          • fiona64

            Boy, are you stupid. Every pregnancy is RISKY … wanted or not.

            And an embryo is not a person.

            Just because women don’t want to have sex with *you,* doesn’t mean they don’t want it with their partners. And every form of contraception, including surgical sterilization, has a known failure rate. Should my tubal ligation fail, there will be an abortion so fast that your stupid head will spin right off. I will NOT put myself through another life-threatening pregnancy.

          • alfie0077

            I sure do hope every woman has “consideration” before even going out with you. You are not “man” material in my opinion. Of course, you are Catholic, so I repeat myself..

        • fiona64

          Yes, dearie, it was. Every pregnancy has risks. Every. Single. One. And sometimes they manifest, as they did with me, in potentially fatal circumstances. My pregnancy almost killed me, and pregnancy does kill women every single day.

          • expect_resistance

            Yep, my mom almost died after she had me because of an undiagnosed heart condition.

          • Arekushieru

            Of course, the antis would just claim that it was the heart condition that killed her. But I would like to point out that the pregnancy most likely EXACERBATED her condition. Of course, I guess I’m ‘forgetting’ that antis like to believe that pregnancy is all farts and rainbows.

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          What is it about not wanting to be pregnant you do not understand?

          Nobody should be forced to go through this unless they want to be a Mother.

          Maternal problems

          The following problems originate mainly in the mother.

          Hyperemesis gravidarum[edit]

          Hyperemesis gravidarum is the presence of severe vomiting and dehydration, which causes the mother to lose weight. It is more severe than the more common morning sickness.

          Pelvic girdle pain (PGP)[edit]

          Caused by: PGP disorder is complex and multi-factorial and likely to be represented by a series of sub-groups with different underlying pain drivers from peripheral or central nervous system, altered laxity/stiffness of muscles, laxity to injury of tendinous/ligamentous structures to ‘mal-adaptive’ body mechanics. Musculo-Skeletal Mechanics involved in gait and weight bearingactivities can be mild to grossly impaired. PGP can begin peri or postpartum. For most women PGP resolves in weeks after delivery but for some it can last for years resulting in a reduced tolerance for weight bearing activities.

          Treatment: The degree of treatment is based on the severity. A mild case would require rest, rehabilitation therapy and pain is usually manageable. More severe cases would also include mobility aids, strong analgesics and sometimes surgery. One of the main factors in helping women cope is with education, information and support. Many treatment options are available.

          Severe hypertensive states

          Further information: Gestational hypertension

          Potential severe hypertensive states of pregnancy are mainly:

          Preeclampsia = gestational hypertension, proteinuria (>300 mg), and edema. Severe preeclampsia involves a BP over 160/110 (with additional signs)

          Eclampsia = seizures in a preeclamptic patient

          HELLP syndrome = Hemolytic anemia, Elevated liver enzymes and low platelet count

          Acute fatty liver of pregnancy is sometimes included in the preeclamptic spectrum.

          Deep vein thrombosis

          For more info on DVT and pregnancy, see Deep vein thrombosis.

          Deep vein thrombosis (DVT) has an incidence of 0.5 to 7 per 1,000 pregnancies, and is the second most common cause of maternal death in developed countries after bleeding.

          Caused by: Pregnancy-induced hypercoagulability as a physiological response to potential massive bleeding at childbirth.

          Treatment: Prophylactic treatment, e.g. with low molecular weight heparin may be indicated when there are additional risk factors for deep vein thrombosis.

          Anemia

          WHO levels of hemoglobin are lower in the third trimesters. According to the United Nations (UN) estimates, approximately half of pregnant women suffer from anemia worldwide. Anemia prevalences during pregnancy differed from 18% in developed countries to 75% in South Asia.[2] Treatment varies due to the severity of the anaemia, and can be used by increasing iron containing foods, oral iron tablets or by the use of parenteral iron.

          Fetal problems

          The following problems occur in the fetus or placenta, but may have serious consequences on the mother as well.

          Ectopic pregnancy (implantation of the embryo outside the uterus)[edit]

          Main article: Ectopic pregnancy

          Caused by: Unknown, but risk factors include smoking, advanced maternal age, and prior damage to the Fallopian tubes.

          Treatment: If there is no spontaneous resolution, the pregnancy is usually aborted to prevent injury or death to the mother.

          Placental abruption (separation of the placenta from the uterus)[edit]

          Main article: Placental abruption

          Caused by: Various causes; risk factors include maternal hypertension, trauma, and drug use.

          Treatment: Immediate delivery if the fetus is mature (36 weeks or older), or if a younger fetus or the mother is in distress. In less severe cases with immature fetuses, the situation may be monitored in hospital, with treatment if necessary.

          Multiple pregnancies

          Main article: Multiple birth

          Multiples may become monochorionic, sharing the same chorion, with resultant risk of twin-to-twin transfusion syndrome. Monochorionic multiples may even become monoamniotic, sharing the same amniotic sac, resulting in risk of umbilical cord compression and entanglement. In very rare cases, there may be conjoined twins, possibly impairing function of internal organs.

          Prenatal infection

          Further information: Perinatal infection

          The embryo and fetus have little or no immune function. They depend on the immune function of their mother. Several pathogens can cross the placenta and cause (perinatal) infection. Often microorganisms that produce minor illness in the mother are very dangerous for the developing embryo or fetus. This can result in spontaneous abortion or major developmental disorders. For many infections, the baby is more at risk at particular stages of pregnancy. Problems related to perinatal infection are not always directly noticeable.

          The term TORCH complex refers to a set of several different infections that may be caused by transplacental infection.

          Babies can also become infected by their mother during birth. During birth, babies are exposed to maternal blood and body fluidswithout the placental barrier intervening and to the maternal genital tract. Because of this, blood-borne microorganisms (Hepatitis B,HIV), organisms associated with sexually transmitted disease (e.g., Gonorrhoea and Chlamydia), and normal fauna of the genito-urinary tract (e.g., Candida) are among those commonly seen in infection of newborns.

          General risk factors

          Factors increasing the risk (to either the woman, the fetus/es, or both) of pregnancy complications beyond the normal level of risk may be present in a woman’s medical profile either before she becomes pregnant or during the pregnancy. These pre-existing factors may relate to physical and/or mental health, and/or to social issues, or a combination.

          Some common risk factors include:

          Age of either parent

          Adolescent parents

          Further information: Teenage_pregnancy#Medical_outcomes

          Older parents

          Further information: Paternal age, Maternal age effect, and Pregnancy over age 50

          Exposure to environmental toxins in pregnancy

          Exposure to recreational drugs in pregnancy:

          Ethanol during pregnancy can cause fetal alcohol syndrome and fetal alcohol spectrum disorder.

          Tobacco smoking and pregnancy, when combined, causes twice the risk of premature rupture of membranes, placental abruptionand placenta previa.[5] Also, it causes 30% higher odds of the baby being born prematurely.

          Prenatal cocaine exposure is associated with, for example, premature birth, birth defects and attention deficit disorder.

          Prenatal methamphetamine exposure can cause premature birth and congenital abnormalities.[7] Other investigations have revealed short-term neonatal outcomes to include small deficits in infant neurobehavioral function and growth restriction when compared to control infants.[8] Also, prenatal methamphetamine use is believed to have long-term effects in terms of brain development, which may last for many years.

          Cannabis in pregnancy is possibly associated with adverse effects on the child later in life.

          Exposure to Pharmaceutical drugs in pregnancy.[4] Anti-depressants, for example, may increase risks of such outcomes aspreterm delivery.

          Further information: Pregnancy category

          Ionizing radiation

          Risks arising from previous pregnancies:

          Complications experienced during a previous pregnancy are more likely to recur.

          Many previous pregnancies. Women who have had five previous pregnancies face increased risks of very rapid labor and excessive bleeding after delivery.

          Multiple previous fetuses. Women who have had more than one fetus in a previous pregnancy face increased risk of mislocated placenta.

          Multiple pregnancy, that is, having more than one fetus in a single pregnancy.

          Social and socioeconomic factors. Generally speaking, unmarried women and those in lower socioeconomic groups experience an increased level of risk in pregnancy, due at least in part to lack of access to appropriate prenatal care.

          Unintended pregnancy. Unintended pregnancies preclude preconception care and delays prenatal care. They preclude other preventive care, may disrupt life plans and on average have worse health and psychological outcomes for the mother and, if birth occurs, the child.

          Height. Pregnancy in women whose height is less than 1.5 meters (5 feet) correlates with higher incidences of preterm birth andunderweight babies. Also, these women are more likely to have a small pelvis, which can result in such complications during childbirth as shoulder dystocia.

          Weight

          Low weight: Women whose pre-pregnancy weight is less than 45.5 kilograms (100 pounds) are more likely to have underweight babies.

          Obese women are more likely to have very large babies, potentially increasing difficulties in childbirth. Obesity also increases the chances of developing gestational diabetes, high blood pressure, preeclampsia, experiencing postterm pregnancy and/or requiring a cesarean delivery.

          Intercurrent disease in pregnancy, that is, a disease and condition not necessarily directly caused by the pregnancy, such asdiabetes mellitus in pregnancy, SLE in pregnancy or thyroid disease in pregnancy.

          High-risk pregnancy

          Some disorders and conditions can mean that pregnancy is considered high-risk (about 6-8% of pregnancies in the USA) and in extreme cases may be contraindicated. High-risk pregnancies are the main focus of doctors specialising in maternal-fetal medicine.

          Serious pre-existing disorders which can reduce a woman’s physical ability to survive pregnancy include a range of congenital defects(that is, conditions with which the woman herself was born, for example, those of the heart or reproductive organs, some of which are listed above) and diseases acquired at any time during the woman’s life.

          Low-risk pregnancy

          A Dutch 2010 research showed that “low-risk” pregnancy in the Netherlands may actually carry a higher risk of perinatal death than a “high-risk” pregnancy.[12] A medical news report observed, “Under the Dutch system of obstetric care, women with low-risk pregnancies are supervised by a midwife in primary care, with the choice of a home or hospital delivery, whereas those with potential complicating factors are supervised by an obstetrician throughout their pregnancy and given a hospital delivery”.

          • expect_resistance

            Thank you. I’m copying this and filing it in the list of maternal problems.

        • P. McCoy

          You are not a medical professional, those cases are none of your business. What is your business is how are you going to explain being a conspirator in acts of terror like the article discusses. I want to see people like you who aid and abet Domestic Terrorists punished with solitary confinement and confiscation of all goods to pay compete your victims.

    • alfie0077

      Jason, you gotta be one of the brain dead zombies that the Vatican puts out. Please attempt to get a brain transplant. There is lots and lots of room if you get rid of the dogma. By the way, dogma smells just as bad as it looks.

  • expect_resistance

    First – Zachary Klundt should be tried as a domestic terrorist. I hope he is prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

    Second – My deepest apologies to Susan Cahill and everyone at the clinic.

    Third – I love the clip from Dr. Susan Wicklund. She is incredible!

    Dr. Wicklund detailed her story of harassment from the antis, “The day that they had put cement barrels in my yard and to try to keep me from going to the clinic, which is the same day that I snuck out of the house carrying a loaded 45, which is the same day I drove, you know, all night long to get to the clinic in Fargo, and then that morning showed up at the clinic—and the protesters, of course, thought I was barricaded in my house, because their buddies, 260 miles away, of course, were holding me captive. And they were quite shocked when, for the first time ever, I stepped out of that clinic with my scrubs on and my lab coat, and I put my fist in the air, and I said, “Yes, there will be clinic today! You are not going to stop this clinic!”

    I really love this part, “Yes, there will be clinic today! You are not going to stop this clinic!”

    • Jennifer Starr

      Susan Wicklund really is an amazing person :)

      • expect_resistance

        I didn’t realize the hell the anti-choicers have inflicted on her for years. I really want to read her book, “This Common Secret: My Journey as an Abortion Doctor.”

      • Arekushieru

        Isn’t Susan Wicklund the woman who related her story about her own grandmother and how she came to realize that her grandmother (unexpectedly, to her mind) actually supported her?

  • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

    Here are some of sexpig Zachary Klundt’s crimes. Is this terrorism? I say it will do until another Roeder comes along.

    “Boman said that the extensive damage included “art and furniture, medical instruments and supplies, and file cabinets. Additionally, a yellow powder covered almost everything. Officers discovered marks on the building’s exterior basement door consistent with someone attempting to break the door knob. In the basement, officers discovered damage to the main sewer line, furnace and water heater.”

    County Attorney Ed Corrigan told the Daily Inter Lake newspaper that the perpetrator covered everything in the primary portion of the medical clinic with iodine and then sprayed a fire extinguisher over it all. The damage “far exceeds” the $1,500 necessary to be charged as a felony, the documents state.

    While that crime scene was still being processed on First Avenue East on Tuesday, Bob Smith of Bob’s Bail Bonds called 9-1-1 at about 6 p.m. to report someone trying to break into his business on South Main Street, approximately six blocks away. Smith provided a description of the male, and responding officers located Klundt, who matched the description, about a block away.

    Kalispell Police Officer Jordan Venezio “observed the butt of a handgun inside Klundt’s jacket,” the charging document says. “Officer Venezio removed the handgun, which was loaded with a full magazine and a spare full magazine in the holster.” Officers observed cuts on Klundt’s hands, and glass shards in his pocket, according to the documents. The suspect also had $915 in cash in another pocket.

    • expect_resistance

      This is domestic terrorism, and terrorism against women. The physical damage he caused is horrific and done to intimidate and scare providers and women seeking reproductive health services. This really pisses me off. I’m thankful that none of the clinic employes and Susan didn’t get hurt or killed. The scary thing is that we know antis can be violent are can be armed with deadly force. I’m sure it’s awful to hear to live in fear and wear a bullet-proof vest to work. It would be great if they made an example of this little asshat and through the book at him.

      • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

        They will make an example of him if we make a lot of noise. I am making as much noise as I can. He is doing well on my blog.
        http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/2014/03/sexpig-series-terrorist-of-month-march.html

      • alfie0077

        DO NOT VOTE FOR CATHOLICS

        There are supposedly “two” parties, R and D. There is a third party, and it is of equal numbers to the Rs and Ds, and it is the C party. (actually, the C party is winning because the Rs and Ds are fighting each other instead of supporting the Constitution). The Catholics are a third of congress and senate. They also have “god before nation” which is “Vatican before the USA. They are joined across both parties At this moment, they have installed 6/9 in the SCOTUS. They are in lockstep and are keeping the borders open, and free debit cards to every illegal alien Catholic invading terrorist that comes to the USA

        • goatini

          LDS, and every Dominionist sect (all Protestants), have “god before nation”. The problem is with radical theocratic fundamentalists of all stripes. Stop derailing with your nonsense BS spam.

    • alfie0077

      They never will state that Klundt is Catholic.

      • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

        Is he? Source? I am very interested in Klundt.

        • alfie0077

          Sorry, no source. the name is more than likely central Europe. There are lots of Catholics there. Here are some facts though.

          If you have the dogma, yes you can even talk to smoke, or invisible folks in the sky.

          The Vatican is having a hissy about the Constitution and equality to all. The Vatican cannot allow the Constitution to be the supreme document. They cannot destroy a nation if it has an educated populace.

          Pilosi is Catholic, Boehner is Catholic, Kerry is Catholic, Biden is Catholic. Paul Ryan is Catholic. Half R, and Half D.

          Hey, this is the entire top echelon of the USA.

          DO NOT VOTE FOR CATHOLICS

          There are supposedly “two” parties, R and D. There is a third party, and it is of equal numbers to the Rs and Ds, and it is the C party. (actually, the C party is winning because the Rs and Ds are fighting each other instead of supporting the Constitution). The Catholics are a third of congress and senate. They also have “god before nation” which is “Vatican before the USA. They are joined across both parties At this moment, they have installed 6/9 in the SCOTUS. They are in lockstep and are keeping the borders open, and free debit cards to every illegal alien Catholic invading terrorist that comes to the USA. It is time the USA citizens recognize that the Vat-i-can has destroyed every nation it kisses. The Cs in the elected offices of the USA are intent in making the USA just as failed as every nation south of the US border. The SCOTUS recently stated in a decision that Corporations are “people” and can put unlimited funds into politics. This opens the gates for more Catholics to be put into office. Vote the Cs out of office and save the nation.

          The Vatican is the largest “corporation” on earth. The amount “contributed” to candidates that are “good Catholics” is out of sight.

          Reposted and hope you do the same

          Caution: Catholics live in a haystack of failure and will seek the needle of success which they think refutes all the above. Failure is failure, and they will unsuccessfully deny it.

          • goatini

            Stop spamming this garbage. The problem is radical theocratic fundamentalist misogyny, of ALL sects.

      • Jennifer Starr

        Probably because he’s a Baptist.

      • goatini

        Klundt is a radical theocratic fundamentalist misogynist. The sect matters not.

  • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

    Okay. I have more information. Terrorism is not a stretch. These folks are organized statewide. They are white supremacists ending abortion by force in the state because white babies. All the dirt at the link.
    http://mtcowgirl.com/tag/zachary-klundt/

    • fiona64

      And little Jason here is doubtless a member of the organization … you should see his racist tweets and posting history. Ugh.

      • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

        How do I get there?

        • fiona64

          Click on his handle (the blue letters); it will show you his posting history. Also, his handle is connected to his Twitter; just click on the little bird image.

          And then get a bucket, because you’re going to want to puke as you read his agreement with things like how interracial dating should not be allowed, etc.

          • Jennifer Starr

            I still can’t figure out why he went into hysterics at the thought that happiness comes from within. Either he’s a complete literalist and the statement honestly flummoxed him or there’s something else that I’m missing. Seemed an odd thing to go to pieces about.

          • Shan

            Maybe he’s not happy and getting told that it’s HIS responsibility (or fault) and not someone else’s might have been disturbing.

          • Jennifer Starr

            That could be it :) Good point :)

      • alfie0077

        From what little I see, Jason is a brain dead Zombie Catholic. Remove brain, insert dogma and then he spews the dogma wherever. Call a Catholic a Catholic traitor. We must get them out of public office to save the Constitution.

        • Jennifer Starr

          As far as I can tell, Jason comes from a Mormon family.

        • goatini

          Stop derailing. The problem is radical theocratic fundamentalists of all stripes.

    • alfie0077

      They are a Vatican controlled inquisition team.

      If you have the dogma, yes you can even talk to smoke, or invisible folks in the sky.

      The Vatican is having a hissy about the Constitution and equality to all. The Vatican cannot allow the Constitution to be the supreme document. They cannot destroy a nation if it has an educated populace.

      Pilosi is Catholic, Boehner is Catholic, Kerry is Catholic, Biden is Catholic. Paul Ryan is Catholic. Half R, and Half D.

      Hey, this is the entire top echelon of the USA.

      DO NOT VOTE FOR CATHOLICS

      There are supposedly “two” parties, R and D. There is a third party, and it is of equal numbers to the Rs and Ds, and it is the C party. (actually, the C party is winning because the Rs and Ds are fighting each other instead of supporting the Constitution). The Catholics are a third of congress and senate. They also have “god before nation” which is “Vatican before the USA. They are joined across both parties At this moment, they have installed 6/9 in the SCOTUS. They are in lockstep and are keeping the borders open, and free debit cards to every illegal alien Catholic invading terrorist that comes to the USA. It is time the USA citizens recognize that the Vat-i-can has destroyed every nation it kisses. The Cs in the elected offices of the USA are intent in making the USA just as failed as every nation south of the US border. The SCOTUS recently stated in a decision that Corporations are “people” and can put unlimited funds into politics. This opens the gates for more Catholics to be put into office. Vote the Cs out of office and save the nation.

      The Vatican is the largest “corporation” on earth. The amount “contributed” to candidates that are “good Catholics” is out of sight.

      Reposted and hope you do the same

      Caution: Catholics live in a haystack of failure and will seek the needle of success which they think refutes all the above. Failure is failure, and they will unsuccessfully deny it.

      • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

        Shut up. Go away.

      • fiona64

        Stop spamming the board with this nonsense.

      • Jennifer Starr

        This has nothing to do with the topic of the post. Stop spamming this junk all over the board.

        • alfie0077

          Sure it does. The Vatican cannot allow the Constitution to be the supreme document. This is the Catholic dogma that must prevail in order to have the Vatican destroy the USA>

          • Jennifer Starr

            You’ve been copying and pasting the same junk in random places all over. I don’t even think you’re bothering to read the articles that you’re posting on. You obviously have a point that you’re trying to make but this is starting to get obnoxious.

          • goatini

            He’s a propagandist attempting to deliberately derail.

  • alfie0077

    The Vatican dogma makes everything they do a failure.
    If you have the dogma, yes you can even talk to smoke, or invisible folks in the sky.

    The Vatican is having a hissy about the Constitution and equality to all. The Vatican cannot allow the Constitution to be the supreme document. They cannot destroy a nation if it has an educated populace.

    Pilosi is Catholic, Boehner is Catholic, Kerry is Catholic, Biden is Catholic. Paul Ryan is Catholic. Half R, and Half D.

    Hey, this is the entire top echelon of the USA.

    DO NOT VOTE FOR CATHOLICS

    There are supposedly “two” parties, R and D. There is a third party, and it is of equal numbers to the Rs and Ds, and it is the C party. (actually, the C party is winning because the Rs and Ds are fighting each other instead of supporting the Constitution). The Catholics are a third of congress and senate. They also have “god before nation” which is “Vatican before the USA. They are joined across both parties At this moment, they have installed 6/9 in the SCOTUS. They are in lockstep and are keeping the borders open, and free debit cards to every illegal alien Catholic invading terrorist that comes to the USA. It is time the USA citizens recognize that the Vat-i-can has destroyed every nation it kisses. The Cs in the elected offices of the USA are intent in making the USA just as failed as every nation south of the US border. The SCOTUS recently stated in a decision that Corporations are “people” and can put unlimited funds into politics. This opens the gates for more Catholics to be put into office. Vote the Cs out of office and save the nation.

    The Vatican is the largest “corporation” on earth. The amount “contributed” to candidates that are “good Catholics” is out of sight.

    Reposted and hope you do the same

    Caution: Catholics live in a haystack of failure and will seek the needle of success which they think refutes all the above. Failure is failure, and they will unsuccessfully deny it.

    • goatini

      Stop spamming this nonsense. This has nothing to do with “Catholics”. Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, and Sonia Sotomayor, for starters, all support women’s civil, human, and Constitutional rights. Mormon Harry Reid also supports women’s civil, human and Constitutional rights.

      The real problem is the latter-day political alliance between the radical theocratic Protestant fundamentalists, and the radical theocratic Catholic fundamentalists. In fact, this recent rabidly aggressive Catholic fundamentalism is relatively recent, with regressive misogynist Wojtyła leading the retreat, aided and abetted by EWTN. Back in my day, you were supposed to have committed a “mortal sin” by just walking into a church of another faith… but now these two former enemies are united by their hatred of women and gays.

      Repeat: The problem is radical theocratic fundamentalism.

  • P. McCoy

    Kindle is an aider and abetter of Domestic Terrorism he should be reported to Homeland Security as such. This the widdle bayyyybee feels pain is crap. Nothing has a right to exist off of my existence without my permission. NOTHING.