Ohio Clinic to Stop Surgical Abortion as State’s Options Dwindle


Effective Friday, a medical clinic in Columbus, Ohio, will no longer offer surgical abortions, bringing the number of providers in the state to fewer than ten.

Though a spokesperson for Complete Healthcare for Women declined to comment, the Columbus Dispatch, as well as NARAL Pro-Choice Ohio and an anti-abortion group have reported that the clinic has stopped providing surgical abortions.

The clinic, which opened in 1974, will remain open and continue to provide other health services.

Governor Kasich, during his time in office, has lead a targeted dismantling of abortion providers in Ohio, not only passing anti-abortion laws but also appointing political allies and abortion opponents to positions of regulatory power designed for medical professionals. A Cincinnati clinic announced last week that it would stop providing abortions due to a state law requiring ambulatory surgical facilities have written transfer agreements with local public hospitals.

Complete Healthcare for Women voluntarily decided to halt abortion services, according to the Columbus Dispatch. It’s unclear whether there is a legal impetus for halting services similar to other clinics in the state.

Kellie Copeland, the executive director of NARAL Pro-Choice Ohio, said in a statement that the clinic may have closed in part due to harassment from abortion opponents.

“These doctors have been harassed at their practice, leaflets calling them ‘killers’ have been distributed in their neighborhood and protesters have picketed a hospital where they have admitting privileges,” Copeland said. “I would not be surprised if this campaign of harassment played a role in their decision to stop providing abortion care to their patients.”

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  • fiona64

    The blood of every woman who dies of complications from a doomed pregnancy she is forced to gestate or an illegal abortion is on the hands of the anti-choice.

    • thedoorisajar

      1) we must close clinics for women’s safety

      2) if they die from illegal unsafe abortion that’s OK, they are criminals

      3) women who abort illegally should not face jail time only the practicioner should

      4) unless they were raped, then no prison sentence

      5) but trust us, embryos are totally full people

      So much contradiction, brain hurts!

      • fiona64

        I know, right? I don’t know how these individuals type that nonsense with a straight face.

        • Shan

          And they STILL don’t understand that THEY are the ones who create the Gosnells.

          • cjvg

            There is a difference between not WANTING to understand because it just is much more convenient for them NOT to understand it, and truly not understanding. These anti-choicer are of the former persuasion.

          • thedoorisajar

            True.

            Though some are genuinely dumb.

          • cjvg

            Even the dumbest person gets it after having been told the same information in different words a million times.

            Only if you willfully and deliberately refuse to read any facts or acknowledge the court recorded testimony of the actual women involved and/or their relatives ( all stated that the women went to Gosnell because they had no other legal options left) can you still claim these lies! I’m glad you still have enough innocence to belief they are just ignorant, unfortunately I no longer have.

            Yes they are dumb, but they are also vicious and deliberate liars who do not care about women, babies or the truth! I no longer harbor any illusions about these unhumans (once you tried escorting for a while, the cruelty of these beings becomes undeniable)

          • Shan

            You’ve been an escort? I’m just asking because I’m considering it myself.

          • cjvg

            I did it for until our local clinic stopped providing abortions. The closest planned parenthood clinic needing escort is now an hour drive away.

            It can be pretty harrowing and/or emotional at times, but I would recommend doing it. Most of the women needing services are just so relieved there is someone there to act as buffer between them and the crazies!

            I always thought that but for the luck of the draw, I could have been one of them, just like every woman can! I would have appreciated knowing that there are plenty of people who do support my choice and do feel I as a person matter beyond the function of my uterus.

          • catseye

            Thank you for your service. Escorts put themselves in harm’s way for freedom just as actual soldiers do.

          • cjvg

            I did not so much see it as a service but as a civil obligation to other human beings who were being abused. I have real issues with abuse in all its forms, so in a way it is therapeutic for me to stand up and say no more to the abusers!
            This is the same reason that I have also volunteered as a guardian ad litem was harder to stomach as was the humane society voluntering

          • prolifemama

            Death-scorts make certain that the baby is put directly into deadly harm’s way.

          • catseye

            And forced-birther terrorists endanger LIVING women. And they believe that the only moral abortions are THEIR abortions.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Escorts help protect women seeking medical care from sidewalk harassment and intimidation.

          • eroteme

            This is why your posts get flagged and deleted.

          • fiona64

            No babies involved in abortion. But you know that already.

            Sidewalk harassers (like you) stalk, harass and kill women and physicians. Because you’re NOT pro-life; you’re just anti-choice.

          • Ivy Mike

            Actually, escorts protect women from psychopathic religious terrorists.

            It’s something I have some experience with, and would like to do myself, if opportunity arose.

            Your cowardly ilk would surely think twice before engaging ME, kid.

          • prolifemama

            fascinating…you make it sound as though your uterus functions without your knowledge or permission…

          • cjvg

            Well if you had any medical knowledge you would realize that just like my kidneys, hearth, liver etc. an uterus does indeed function without me having any say in the process. This is what is called an autonomous body function! Your welcome, glad you learned something

          • eroteme

            Hey cj!

            Advanced Alzheimer’s patients are still sentient yes? They are not like PVS. They can feel pain, etc. The cortex is shrunken and damaged, but the thalamacortical connections still exist?

          • cjvg

            Yes, they are sentient pretty much until the last moment. These patients are still aware of their environment and will still respond to stimuli like hunger, cold, heat pain etc. They are just losing their memories (the oldest memories stay till last, mother, childhood etc. will be retained longer then the name or face of their spouse or children.)
            Smells are often connected to old memories and often a patient will recall something when a familiar smell is present.
            In a way (early) Alzheimer patient remind me of stroke patients, a certain part of the brain is damaged and only partially functional but they are most certainly aware. (except when this is a severe all-encompassing stroke were the patient is in a coma and considered virtually brain dead.)

          • cjvg

            Did you see the latest response from “prolifemamma” ? She is a complete nut case

            This is what she wrote; “fascinating…you make it sound as though your uterus functions without your knowledge or permission…”
            If women could actually control the function of their uterus there never would be a need for abortion service or contraception!

          • eroteme

            Yep!

            if you ever get an ectopic pregnancy it’s because you forced it there!

          • cjvg

            Apparently, science and medical facts are all balderdash

          • eroteme
          • cjvg

            Just now saw your comment when I responded to the science hater (facts are so darn inconvenient for the anti-choice) My disqus is acting up I do not get al notifications for some reason, or maybe it is my pc
            I took a quick look, you are right another treasure trove o illogical nonfactual “my belief is better then your facts so you must be forced to live according to my beliefs” I will have to go back later tonight to do some cage rattling

          • prolifemama

            women CAN actually control the function of their uterus. It’s called choosing not to engage in activities that may result in pregnancy.

          • eroteme

            Nope. Women can’t control ovulation, which is why they can still get pregnant from rape, silly.

          • Jennifer Starr

            My need for contraception is my personal business and my doctor’s business. Not yours, and certainly not your church.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            The Asexual must not make rules for the normally sexed.

          • fiona64

            It’s called choosing not to engage in activities that may result in pregnancy.

            Once again, just because no one wants to f*** you doesn’t mean that other people have to be celibate.

            The only “need” for abortion or contraception is when women decide not
            to control themselves, and decide that other human beings must be
            sacrificed to feed their uncontrolled appetites.

            Nope. The need for contraception comes in when women want to decide when or whether they will have children. The need for abortion comes in when a wanted pregnancy goes wrong, or contraception fails, or any number of things. And none of those things are any of your business whatsoever.

            I’m sorry that you think of yourself as nothing but the meat around your reproductive organs. Really, I am.

          • cjvg

            Autonomic body functions are the functions of the body that occur involuntarily. You have no control over them. Examples of autonomic functions in human are peristalsis, pregnancy, miscarriage, ovulation, the regulation of the heartbeat and the secretion of the hormones.
            Just because reality and biology do not fit your little anti-choice narratives that does not change the FACTS!
            You are entitled to your own beliefs , you are not entitled to your own facts no matter how much these facts place your beliefs in the realm of ridiculous nonsense

          • Jennifer Starr

            Probably because it does.

          • fiona64

            you make it sound as though your uterus functions without your knowledge or permission

            Wow! Please explain how one can control the build-up of the endometrium, etc. I’m keen to know.

            And you wonder why so many of us think you’re an imbecile …

          • prolifemama

            …meaning that cjvg appears to think pregnancy just happens, completely out of the blue.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Meaning that cjvg knows a hell of a lot more than you do.

          • cjvg

            Meaning that you completely dishonestly and non factually claimed that women can control the function of their uterus, something that is completely impossible. If that was the case no woman would ever need abortion services, we could just turn it on and of at will

          • cjvg

            Here is the text of a medical book describing the anatomy of the fallopian tube

            “The Fallopian tubes are paired, tubular, seromuscular organs whose course runs medially from the cornua of the uterus toward the ovary laterally. The tubes are situated in the upper margins of the broad ligaments between the round and utero ovarian ligaments (Fig. 2). Each tube is about 10 cm long with variations in length from 7 to 14 cm. The abdominal ostium is situated at the base of a funnel-shaped expansion of the tube, the infundibulum, the circumference of which is enhanced by irregular processes called fimbriae. The ovarian fimbria is longer and more deeply grooved than the others and is closely applied to the tubal pole of the ovary. Passing medially, the infundibulum opens into the thin-walled ampulla forming more than half the length of the tube and 1 or 2 cm in outer diameter; it is succeeded by the isthmus, a round and cord-like structure constituting the medial one-third of the tube and 0.5-1 cm in outer diameter. The interstitial or conual portion of the tube continues from the isthmus through the uterine wall to empty into the uterine cavity. This segment of the tube is about 1 cm in length and 1 mm in inner diameter.”

            Please note that at the smallest part where the fallopian tube connects to the uterus it ONLY has a diameter of 1mmclarify since you are probably not educated enough to understand what the width of 1 mm is that is exactly _ this long!!!!!!

            Please explain how a blastocyst can develop in a tube with a circumference of 1mm and very little capacity to stretch due to the way the non striated muscle tissue is patterned?

          • eroteme

            too much science, let’s start taking bets on whether or not PLM will even read it

          • cjvg

            Probably, but it is the only way I know to combat such ignorance. (that and willful blind and self-serving ignorance irritates the hell out of me

          • eroteme

            I dare you to read, and comprehend, cjvg’s medical information regarding the fallopian tubes

          • eroteme

            Explain how women can, through force of will alone, prevent a blastocyst from implanting on their fallopian tube. If women have complete control over their reproductive organs yes, they should be able to prevent ectopic pregnancies?

          • prolifemama

            Seriously? Women, and men, can prevent pregnancy by saying no to sexual intimacy. Once fertilization has occurred, there is a new human being present – ask even a proabort embryologist if this is not so – whose life is just as valuable as her/his mother’s and father’s, and s/he must be acknowledged, and treated, as such. Ectopic pregnancies can be treated in such a way that the developing human being, if still alive when the pregnancy is confirmed, is not killed, simply removed from her/his mother’s body.

          • eroteme

            If you remove the embryo from the woman’s body, it is in fact killed. It dies precisely BECAUSE you removed it.

            Once fertilization has occurred, a microsopic genetic blueprint is created, that has the potential to become a person, but is not yet.

          • catseye

            The only moral abortion is YOUR abortion, right?

          • eroteme

            ask even a proabort embryologist if this is not so

            Wrong. They will say that it’s the beginning o human development. That it’s a potential person.

            Nothing more. Stop being so dishonest.

          • Jennifer Starr

            No thank you. I’ll have sex when I like, I will use contraception, and if I develop an ectopic pregnancy, methotrexate WILL be used. And you’ll just have to deal with it, won’t you?

          • fiona64

            Just because no one wants to f*** you doesn’t mean that other people have to be celibate.

          • cjvg

            Idiot, there is no way to “remove” an ectopic pregnancy from a fallopian tube without terminating is development.
            Ectopic pregnancies are before the fertilized egg has even reached the uterus to implant, they are very small and usually have not even reached embryonic stage!

          • Ivy Mike

            Are men allowed to be escorts? I ask because someday, I’ll be able to do volunteer-type stuff again, and this is something I think I’d like to do.

          • cjvg

            Yes, that actually works real well. Many protesters are not willing to engage or even approach a male escort (you are clearly marked as such) Different for the men who are accompanying their female partners, they are getting all kinds of variations on the “man up and tell her no you are not allowed” spiel.

            Absolutely volunteer, some women actually even prefer a male escort (or so they have told me on occasion)

          • P. McCoy

            Escorts should be able to secretly record incidents of a verbal as well as physical nature. Thus when these protestors behave like the Domestic Terrorists that they truly ARE, these documentations can go to the FBI as well as Homeland Security, with the ultimate goal of getting laws passed that will incarcerate these people as Terrorists; giving them the Federal Prison 23 hour solitary confinement with NO visitors, NO exceptions especially for so called religious reasons. Then under new legislation, defund, tax, and subject to lawsuits for various damages any person, or so called charity, or so called religious organizations that give aid, comfort, verbal, monatery, media (propaganda) support etc: to any of their ilk. Make it known that as they persecute others, so they shall be persecuted and give them NO voice to falsely plea their ‘unborn baby’ lies to the body politic. Make supporting the so called “pro-life” cause as popular as supporting Nazism!

          • nettwench14

            There is no law against filming public interactions, even with police. Go for it!

          • P. McCoy

            Thanks for your response.

          • catseye

            There are none so blind as those who will not see. Hoary old cliche’, but a propos.

          • prolifemama

            No, Gosnells (at least you admit he wasn’t the only one committing the atrocities he committed) are created by the virtually non-regulated abortion industry.
            Stop lying about prolifers.

          • Shan

            Who knows how many Gosnells there are out there filling the void left by the clinics closed by TRAP laws and all the rest of the laws HYPER-regulating abortion over the past few years? And stop lying your own damn self about the non-existent “abortion industry.” If such a thing DID exist, there would be billionaire lobbyists channeling money to politicians and legislators to pay them to prevent or even just relax the laws that have helped create the exact market Gosnell filled.

            Gosnell operated outside the law, flouting all the regulations that were already in place. That’s why he was able to commit the atrocities he did. If you want to make ALL abortion illegal and consequently *impossible* to regulate? That’s *exactly* how the Gosnells of the world are created.

          • nettwench14

            Comparing Gosnell to a legitimate abortion provider is like saying Ted Bundy is representative of people who work for rape help lines! Gosnell was a serial killer. Greedy, sick, and brutal.

          • cjvg

            Sure because those who provide legal abortions (and according to you make millions of it) want the competition of an unregulated cheaper (since they do not have to follow the rules or implement any safety regulations) clinic!

            Do you ever make any sense?

          • http://www.danaseilhan.com Dana

            No one’s lying about baby sellers. (You only want to outlaw abortion so you can go back to busting up families like you did during the Baby Scoop Era. It’s not like you mean for those “nasty sluts” to KEEP their babies.) YOU are lying about anti-abortion laws.

          • fiona64

            Eroteme has cited this information before, but I hadn’t thought about it until I watched “Philomena” last night. ProWomensDeathMama would probably love to see the Magdalene Laundries reopened (the last one closed down in 1996).

            Anywho, if you were a Roman Catholic with 1000 GBP, you could basically buy a child from the nuns, without a single bit of consideration for or permission from the female inmates of the Laundries. http://www.irishcentral.com/news/new-scandal-erupts-over-irish-children-sold-to-america-for-adoption-168588836-237752541.html

          • catseye

            And the ones nobody wanted were killed (AFTER they had been born) and disposed of. Recently, at the site of an old Magdalene Laundry in the town of Tuam, workers were excavating an old septic tank, and they discovered the remains of a couple hundred full-term babies. Yeah, THAT’S real “respect for human life”, all right.

          • fiona64

            Yep. It’s a horror, all right … and that’s the world that the anti-choice *want.*

            Until, of course, it’s them or a loved one … in which case *that* abortion is a case of need, and everyone *else’s* abortion is because they were s1uts who couldn’t keep their legs together.

          • catseye

            Can you imagine what those poor workers who discovered that septic tank felt? Merciful Goddess!

          • fiona64

            Indeed. The whole thing is dreadful.

          • P. McCoy

            Catholics put pressure on those stories until media said that they were “lies” and the septic tank finds were merely ‘normal ways of burial purposes for the era’-in short, obfuscation and more lies to protect the cult!

          • catseye

            They must NOT be allowed to get away with this. Don’t let this be forgotten.

          • fiona64

            No, Gosnells (at least you admit he wasn’t the only one committing the
            atrocities he committed) are created by the virtually non-regulated
            abortion industry.

            You are so full of shit that it’s coming out of your ears.

          • http://www.scientificabortionlaws.com/ Russell Crawford

            You have a choice prolifemama you can save innocent born babies or you can intentionally let them die and save a fetus instead. Your choice is to let innocent babies die.

      • prolifemama

        Abortuaries must be closed for the safety of mothers and their children, yes.
        It is a crime against women who are killed by illegal AND legal abortions. Neither ‘choice’ is a safe one, for mothers OR their babies. There are real options for women facing unintended pregnancy, and prolifers have been helping women with these challenges since the 1960s. Join us and show that you truly care about women’s lives and the lives of their families.
        Who has ever said that rapists who impregnate their victims shouldn’t go to prison?
        Embryos ARE human beings, at a very early stage of their lives, which began at fertilization. Birth is another milestone in the life of human beings, whose lives begin when their fathers’ sperms successfully fertilize their mothers’ ovums.
        It’s really not that difficult to understand, unless you insist on changing the definitions of words that mean specific things.

        • thedoorisajar

          Spare me.

          You know that women will die and injure themselves from unsafe abortion.

          You don’t care.

          • prolifemama

            Spare mothers the horror of abortion. Spare their lives, and their children’s.
            If YOU truly care about them, help them in a way that allows both to live.
            Don’t make mothers choose between college, their jobs, housing, medical care, and the lives of their children yet unborn.
            Don’t make them choose between the necessities of life, and death.

          • thedoorisajar

            You don’t care if women die from a dirty coat hanger.

          • prolifemama

            Why would you think that?

          • thedoorisajar

            You claim to care about women, you care so much that you want abortion, even in the case of brutal rape, to remain illegal.

            This is what you want to force women into, honey. Now tell me what is compassionate about this:

            If the woman, or girl, is alone she thrusts it blindly upwards into the vagina. She’s hoping it will get into her uterus and do something. She may or may not know that to get into the uterus the coat hanger has to navigate the small opening in the cervix called the os.

            A coat hanger is technically narrow enough to get through a pregnant cervical os, but the end is sharp not tapered so it can lacerate and perforate. Getting any instrument through the cervix safely also requires visualization and knowledge of the correct amount of force.

            If she’s lucky enough to get the coat hanger through her cervix it could easily sail right through the back or side walls of the uterus. The uterine wall is soft and easily perforated with the wrong instrument or unskilled hands. If the uterus is perforated on one of the sides there is a high risk of lacerating a uterine artery, as that is where they are located. If this happens a woman who is by herself could easily bleed to death before she gets appropriate medical care. These arteries pump a lot of blood.

            The other danger with uterine perforation is the bowel. Puncturing bowel will hurt, but depending on her level of fear it might only be enough to cry out but not to ask for help. However, within the next 3 days the bowel perforation will most certainly kill her unless she gets appropriate medical care. That care will likely involve major surgery to drain abscesses, remove necrotic bowel, and possibly even a colostomy. The uterus will also be infected and may be damaged beyond repair.

            If she was lucky and got that rough end of the coat hanger in and out of her cervix without puncturing something it is unlikely she will induce an abortion immediately. In this scenario the coat hanger is really just a vector for introducing infection. In 2-3 days or so she will cramp, and if fortunate her uterus will contract and she will pass the tissue at home. However, the bacteria from septic abortions often disseminates and each hour the condition remains untreated death takes a step closer. If she gets to the hospital in time and they can empty her uterus without killing her and she doesn’t have a resistant bacteria and she isn’t in septic shock and is otherwise healthy she will survive. That’s a lot of variables.

            The coat hanger might miss the cervix altogether and puncture the top of the vagina. It could also hit the uterine arteries from this angle and likewise still devastate the bowel.

            If the coat hanger is used by someone else, they may or may not get it through the cervix. Same risks of perforation and laceration, because a skilled operator would never use a coat hanger. However, not everyone would know that and some are too desperate to care. The medical sequelae are therefore all essentially the same, with one exception. The type of people who offer coat hanger abortions may also sexually assault their victim, because really, who’s going to report them to the police?

          • prolifemama

            Abortion doesn’t undo that brutal rape. Women who have aborted their children conceived thru rape describe that abortion as a second rape. The children are executed for their fathers’ crimes.

          • thedoorisajar

            If a pregnant rape victim is suicidal and starving herself to death, should she be tied down and forced fed for 9 months?

          • Arekushieru

            Didn’t her cohort already support that? Well, she does by default considering she could never answer Ivy Mike’s question about that very situation.

          • Jennifer Starr

            That decision should be left up to the woman who is actually raped. What is the best decision for one person may not be the best choice for someone else. Each woman is different.

          • goatini

            //Women who have aborted their children conceived thru rape describe that abortion as a second rape//

            Not the vast majority.

          • Shan

            “Women who have aborted their children conceived thru rape describe that abortion as a second rape.”

            And women who have been forced to give birth to their rapist’s child have also described it as a second rape. That doesn’t mean that every woman who has conceived by rape should HAVE to have an abortion. It means that she should have the legal right to CHOOSE whether she wants to or not.

          • Arekushieru

            While you’ll be PLENTY happy if a single unwed pregnant teenager decides to abort rather than raise a child because she’s a dirty ‘s1oot’!

            Many women also describe forced gestation as a second rape, like the woman in Ireland. So, should we make ALL women abort, now, based on what a FEW women say? No? See, logic. You has NONE.

          • fiona64

            Abortion doesn’t undo that brutal rape.

            Don’t tell me, let me guess: one of your “helpful” talking points is “The minute you hold that precious baby in your arms, you’ll forget all about being raped”?

            Women who have aborted their children conceived thru rape describe that abortion as a second rape.

            Citation needed.

          • Arekushieru

            Oh, yes, of course, but now we have the ‘pwecious’ rapist ‘father’s’ parental rights to consider. …Ugh. *Runs to the bathroom to barf!*

          • lady_black

            BULL.

          • Nicole W.

            You’d rather they raised a child they very well might hate and possibly be forced to have contact with their rapist, who now has parental rights? As if that isn’t going to cause a lifetime of trauma for the woman. How nice of you.

          • fiona64

            Why would we think that? Because, you dumb bint, women will seek abortions whether or not they are legal. You want to make abortion a crime, turn women into criminals, and yes … have those “sluts” die from dangerous, back alley abortions. Just like they did during the 70 or so years that abortion was illegal in this country.

          • http://www.danaseilhan.com Dana

            Don’t make women choose between parenting and college. If you really want women to “choose life” then give them a valid way to choose parenting too. You don’t want to do that. You want to sell their babies.

          • fiona64

            You don’t want to do that. You want to sell their babies.

            You hit the nail on the head, Dana … but there are prerequisites. The infants must, of course, be Caucasian, perfectly healthy, and preferably male.

          • prolifemama

            breathing that rarified air on that distant mountaintop again, Fiona?

          • Arekushieru

            Yeah, because that’s precisely the air YOU breathe. Have to understand where you’re coming from in order to derail your rampant destruction of people’s lives, don’t we?

          • Shan

            No, the air she breathes is full of sand.

          • fiona64

            … says the woman who doesn’t live in RealityLand.

            You are a joke of a hideous old boot, you know?

          • P. McCoy

            Nope you all want that purity for the above babies that should Aryan to boot-no room for non.Aryans at the adoption mill! Also, how is a non sentient entity innoccent? Is the woman theefore guilty? What human being survives by stealing life resources and processes excretory, digestive and breathing functions through a single host body 24/7 until it’s evicted from that host body? Name any ONE!

          • nettwench14

            They also want a white majority in this country, and forcing young white women to have babies suits their evangelical white-centric biblical agenda. They give lip service to caring about the “black baby holocaust,” but I don’t see any of them adopting black babies. They will go to China or Russia before they will see if a black child in their own town needs a home.

          • prolifemama

            Check out Heartbeat International, and The Nurturing Network. They arrange local assistance around the globe for pregnant women, as well as lateral promotions for professional women, and college credit transfers for students.

          • Arekushieru

            Um, women who live in Africa, will need a LOT more than college credits, since many of them haven’t even been able to go to SCHOOL. and lateral promotions for professional women, when a lot of them probably don’t even have jobs. How can you do enough for THOSE women when you can’t do enough for women, here, and not NEARLY the same as for what we do for women. Stabilize funding, promote contraception and comprehensive sex ed, promote universal health care (ensuring that BORN people have the same right to life as everyone else, not more like you would grant to fetuses), education, etc…. DARN that logic, just keeps getting in your way, DOESN’T it?

          • thedoorisajar

            Should a woman have a choice regarding how many children she will gestate?

            Or, if she is the property of her husband, should she be forced to have as many children as he wants her to have?

          • almond_bubble_tea

            Sometimes the “assistance” is conditional on fulfiling “education” modules that attempt to indoctrinate the woman into becoming an evangelical Christian or convert them to Christianity.

            “as well as lateral promotions for professional women, and college credit transfers for students.”

            Citation please.

          • nettwench14

            Like no pregnancy test until we proselytize to you first. Wacko.

          • fiona64

            No such thing as a “lateral promotion.” And how do they “arrange” these things, anyway? What an asinine assertion: “Hi, we’re a bunch of busybody strangers from an anti-choice organization. Mr. or Ms. HR Professional, could you please arrange a ‘lateral promotion’ for your employee?”

            You wouldn’t get past the lobby guard with that kind of b.s.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Yeah I looked up ‘lateral promotion’ and found absolutely nothing. I have no idea what that’s supposed to mean.

          • catseye

            Speaking as a professional security officer, _I_ sure wouldn’t let’em in.

          • J.D.

            Lateral promotion is an oxymoron.

          • nettwench14

            I had to make that choice at age 19. My only means of support was ME. I would have had to drop out of school and there was no fucking way that was going to happen. I did not want babies or poverty, I wanted to work and support myself. I never wanted children, forcing women who don’t want to be mothers to drop out of school, and be unable to support themselves is crazy.

          • catseye

            And then the same people who are pushing the forced-birth crap squawk and blat about “welfare queens” and try to yank the safety net out from under the women. Sheeeeeesh!

          • Arekushieru

            Then stop opposing contraception, comprehensive sex ed, supports for poor young black women, supporting pregnancy discrimination contributing to rape culture, etc… It’s NOT our fault that YOU make pregnant WOMEN feel like they HAVE to choose between college, their job, housing and medical care.

            Abortion is not a horror. if it is, defending oneself from rape is even MORE horrifying.

            Pregnancy is ALWAYS dangerous and risky because there is not a 0% chance that a women will die. And by requiring women to take a risk and/or give up their life and/or health when it is not a requirement requested of ANYONE else IS misogyny. You have been told, REPEATEDLY, that even a ‘normally’ progressing pregnancy can turn deadly in an instant and by that time it is too late to save the woman’s life as well as the fetuses. See, ‘life’ isn’t really what you care about, and most especially not the life of the family she most likely left behind.

          • prolifemama

            contraception leads to abortion, because users always figure it isn’t their fault when they get pregnant – they used contraceptives.
            pregnancy isn’t ALWAYS risky, even for women in developing countries. It is a natural process.
            and your ‘repeated’ interminable yammering doesn’t make what you say, true.
            you holler for citations, then when they’re provided, you don’t read them with open minds, and acknowledge the facts they present.

          • Shan

            “contraception leads to abortion”

            Oh, FFS. There’s NO hope here at all.

          • prolifemama

            There’s always hope, Shan, that angry proaborts will someday see the extreme error of their mindset, and actually listen to women who have been helped by the only people who truly want to help them – prolifers.

          • Shan

            What’s next? “I’ll pray for you”?

          • thedoorisajar

            I’ll pray for you, you angry pro abort!!111

          • prolifemama

            I think you have to keep your finger on the CAPS LOCK key, or else depress the key and let it hold itself down for you while you type your incensed exclamation points…
            Unless of course, you think you’re Number 111 !!! (see?)

          • thedoorisajar
          • fiona64

            Someone really is a tyro at this whole Internet thing …

          • lady_black

            You don’t know about “eleventy” do you? Never watched “The Beverly Hillbillies?”

          • fiona64

            Heh. Except for the oil claim, I would bet that her life is pretty much like that.

            See you out by the see-ment pond, Ellie-mae!

          • Shan

            LOL! I’m not angry, just disgusted.

          • eroteme

            You’d be happier if you had cancer.

            Did you know that suffering is as good as gold, and that you are missing out?

          • Shan

            I just found out today that not only do I have lactose intolerance but also a soy intolerance. Does that count? I found out the hard way.

          • eroteme

            You get a bronze medal for that!

          • thedoorisajar

            Sentencing women to death and disability doesn’t help them. Bless your heart, dear.

          • goatini

            Statistics prove that the “anger” is on the fetus freak side:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

          • Shan

            Firstly, I’m not angry, I’m disgusted. Secondly, if you get to call me an “angry proabort” I get to tell you call you a smugly sanctimonious forced birther. All of your kind deserve our disgust when you continue to promote the lie that the very things that have been repeatedly proven to prevent the need for abortion (comprehensive sex ed and easy access to contraception) actually *cause* it.

            Pro-choice policies are more effective at preventing abortion because they prevent the leading cause of abortion: Unintended pregnancy. If you’re promoting the types of policies and disinformation that decrease access to and use of contraception and consequently increase the rate of unintended pregnancy, YOU are the real proabort here, not us pro-choice folk.

          • Arekushieru

            No woman has ever been helped by you ANTI-CHOICERS. And YOU should listen to stories of women who have been ‘helped’ as you say by you so-called Pro-Lifers. Most often they report frustration and despair. So, you believe Gazans should do nothing in response to the Israeli attacks on their dignity and human rights? Funny (in an AWFUL way, of course), that didn’t help the Jews against Hitler any, now did it?

          • almond_bubble_tea

            Would you mind sending me to a few websites where pregnant women report frustration and despair after visiting CPCs?

            All I’ve seen is the #CallOutCPCs hash tag.

          • fiona64

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/caitlin-bancroft/crisis-pregnancy-center_b_3763196.html

            Quote: The way that these women treated me made one thing very clear: they
            didn’t care about me, my future, my happiness, or my relationships. I
            was simply a shell that needed to be distracted and kept questioning
            until it was too late for me to make my own choices, and too late for me
            to decide if this is what I wanted — or not. I truly can’t imagine the
            pain that CPCs inflict on women who are actually struggling with an
            unintended pregnancy. I left each CPC feeling humiliated, terrified, and
            panicked… and I wasn’t even pregnant.

            http://www.salon.com/2013/08/07/undercover_footage_reveals_more_crazy_crisis_pregnancy_center_lies/

            Quote: I was cautioned that abortions caused breast cancer, even though the
            National Cancer Institute has found serious flaws in all research that
            suggests so. I was warned that I would inevitably suffer from
            post-abortion stress syndrome, even though the American Psychological
            Association says there is no evidence of increased mental health
            problems among women who have an abortion in the first trimester. I was
            told that I would not hear this information from doctors, because
            doctors make money performing abortions and would lie about the
            procedure’s risks.

            http://www.salon.com/2013/06/25/caught_on_tape_crisis_pregnancy_centers_false_dangerous_advice/

            Quote: Though these centers claim they are merely expressing their right to
            dissuade women from having abortions and not actively misleading them,
            Stack points out that Abby Johnson, a former Planned Parenthood employee
            turned antiabortion activist, gave a workshop at Heartbeat
            International’s 2012 conference titled “Competing With the Abortion
            Industry.” According to audio of the event, Johnson told
            participants, ”We want to look professional. We want to look
            businesslike. And yeah, we do kind of want to look medical.” She
            discouraged them from foregrounding their religious affiliation, so as
            to better trick women: “We want to appear neutral on the outside. The
            best call, the best client you ever get is one that thinks they’re
            walking into an abortion clinic. Those are the best clients that could
            ever walk in your door or call your center, the ones that think you
            provide abortions.”

          • eroteme

            Lying is OK if it is for Jesus

          • fiona64

            Where ‘help’ means slut-shaming and guilt, and demanding that perfectly healthy Caucasian infants be surrendered to the adoption mill, of course …

          • Jennifer Starr

            So, if it’s a natural process, I don’t need to go to the doctor if I’m pregnant or change anything about my habits. Right?

          • Arekushieru

            Nope. When we say the majority of women who had abortions used some form of contraception, that also means the other number of women who had abortions, at LEAST a little over 40 percent, WEREN’T using some form of contraception. GIVEN that the majority of women who do use contraception before having an abortion also don’t report perfect use of contraception (due to the stigmatization, shame and just pure lack of education around contraception, generated by antis), it would stand to REASON that women would still end up choosing to abort, even if contraception was made illegal. and that the abortion rates would be HIGHER due to the fact that the rates of pregnancy (no longer) prevented by contraception are MUCH higher than those that aren’t prevented even without its perfect use. So, basically, you people want MORE abortions, NOT less. You people really can’t think logically, CAN you?

            AND the majority of women who had abortions were married and had children ALREADY. Btw, just to make it clear for you, in case you didn’t realize (which, given your general obtuseness, you probably didn’t), they are ALSO included among those who WERE using contraception. And, since just lumping those people in with someone who uses it because they figure it isn’t their fault when they get pregnant, IS rather ridiculous, it only serves to FURTHER underscore one of the points I was making above. But, you’ve already proven how ridiculous you are already, SO many times, it’s not surprising, anymore.

            Anyways, a woman has no right to not be pregnant whatsoever, unless they refuse to exercise their freedom regarding consensual, non-procreative sex? More misogyny, RIGHT THERE, since all men, everywhere, are free to engage in sex at all times without fear of being punished, from ya.

            A natural process means you were born doing it. No, a natural process is a female body’s UNPREGNANT state. There are some insects or birds, I forget which it is, however, that already have developing larva or embryos within them before they’re hatched. Even if it DIDN’T mean that, you’d have to ignore a woman when she’s not pregnant in order to state that pregnancy is a state of wellness or not risky. When compared to a woman’s health before she is pregnant and when she is, pregnancy is never a state of wellness nor is it ever NOT risky. Just because women don’t always die from pregnancy (the fact that you dismiss women who DO die from pregnancy in such a manner, shows you’re NOT about life, at all) doesn’t mean it isn’t risky. It just means the risk never MATERIALIZED. Also, as someone pointed out on another blog on this site, medical advances also mean increasing rates of maternal mortality at some future date. Why do you think that IS, if it’s not ‘risky’? Seriously, logic. GET some.

            BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Sorry, excuse me, MY ‘repeated’ interminable yammering doesn’t make what *I* say is true? Self-projection much? PFFFT! Seriously, the only one whose been going on and on about the same thing, while expecting it to make it ‘true’ is YOU. And there are only SO many different ways to address that SAME topic without rehashing old ground, and that’s all on YOU. Perhaps if you got some new material or actually started, y’know, ADDRESSING the points we make, we might be able to explore new territory. Until then, stop being a hypocrite.

            You have never ONCE provided me with a citation (nor, for that matter, pretty much everyone on this site). We provide you with citations from medical professionals and world renowned organizations that are at a LONG arm’s length from the Pro-CHOICE movement, that you then go on to dismiss as ‘pro-abort’ sites. But, when YOU present us with OBVIOUS anti-choice blogs, not even, informally acknowledged as medical, sites and we dismiss them because they are ‘anti-choice’ sites, you accuse US of not being open minded? Wow, such fail, you hypocritical LOSER.

          • fiona64

            contraception leads to abortion

            Of all the moronic things you’ve said (and there have been millions of such), this tops the list. Comprehensive sex education and ready access to contraception are what lowers abortion numbers.

            pregnancy isn’t ALWAYS risky

            Yes, you dumb twatwaffle, it IS. Whether or not risks will manifest cannot be determined until the woman is pregnant.

            you holler for citations, then when they’re provided

            You haven’t provided any … even after repeat requests … because you don’t HAVE any. All you have are your dumbfuck CPC talking points, all of which have been debunked.

          • fiona64

            you holler for citations, then when they’re provided, you don’t read them with open minds

            No one’s fault but you’re own that you aren’t bright enough to evaluate sources for bias … BTW, naming two doctors with known anti-choice agendas and saying “look them up” does NOT constitute citing a source.

          • eroteme

            And lack of contraception leads to more abortions.

            In Africa, women do not have access to contraception. They still abort. Unsafely. And they die. 68,000 a year.

          • fiona64

            Remember, she’s already told us that people abroad are not her problem. Those yucky brown people can just die and it’s fine with her; she’s more concerned with saving zygotes here. Ugh.

          • lady_black

            Contraception leads to a lot less abortions than doing nothing, cupcake.

          • nettwench14

            They just do not think women’s bodies belong to women.

          • fiona64

            How about if you do something *truly* radical and mind your own fucking business?

            The only “horror” involved in abortion is women having to walk past a bunch of shrieking harpies like you, who call themselves “sidewalk counselors.” It’s no more “horrifying” than any other medical/surgical procedure.

          • Shan

            People have to choose between the necessities of life, and health, and death, all the time. A single payer healthcare system would go a LONG way to helping prevent having to make those decisions. So would a higher minimum wage. And closing the wage gap. And affordable, quality childcare. See where I’m going?

            In bad situations, taking away legal options of how to deal with them isn’t the answer. Preventing the conditions that create them IS.

          • goatini

            You mean, don’t LET them “choose” anything except gestational slavery.

          • almond_bubble_tea

            “Don’t make mothers choose between college, their jobs, housing, medical care, and the lives of their children yet unborn.
            Don’t make them choose between the necessities of life, and death”

            So why hasn’t the religious right and anti-choice folks like you require that companies pay for maternity leave for single mothers and also require employers NOT to fire single women after they become pregnant?

            The threat of being fired or terminated because a women is too sick from pregnancy and took too many sick days is very real. But I see NO CPC or anti-choice legislator doing anything to convince working women that they will be protected from being terminated after they choose to carry the pregnancy to term.

          • Shan

            Exactly like I mentioned to PLM before. These are some of the conditions that lead women to have an abortion.

          • http://www.scientificabortionlaws.com/ Russell Crawford

            Pro life, that is a joke, right? Spare mothers the horror of abortion, you are joking, right? You have the opportunity to save 10 fetuses each second, yet you choose to let those fetuses die and instead try to stop the abortion of an unwanted fetus. You claim to be pro life, yet your actions show you are really willing to let 10 wanted fetuses die in an effort to force the birth of an unwanted fetus. That is an example of the sociopathic thought processes of the pro life movement. Just as you choose to let born babies die, you choose to let wanted fetuses die. That is insane. The bad part is that it has been pointed out to you numerous time, yet you persist.

        • J.D.

          Legal abortion is significantly safer for women than gestation and delivery.

          • prolifemama

            this has been debunked, j.d.
            read the reardon/coleman medical study that proves the opposite.

          • Shan

            Readon (director of the antiabortion, Illinois-based Elliot Institute) and Colemen (family studies professor at Bowling Green State University)? The same Reardon and Coleman who used wildly methodologically flawed studies to “prove” that abortion causes mental health problems?

            Yeah, THEY don’t have an agenda, do they?

          • prolifemama

            Well, somebody has to do the research. You proaborts won’t listen to the women themselves.

          • thedoorisajar

            We DO listen to the women:

            http://www.imnotsorry.net/

          • prolifemama

            You don’t listen to all of them. And I have a strong suspicion that those who are in constant emotional pain from their abortions are quickly ignored, if they say so much as one word of regret about their decision to abort.

          • thedoorisajar

            If they feel abortion regret, cupcake, they should receive as much support as humanly possible.

            This doesn’t mean that we should infantilize women and ban abortion just because *some* women regret it.

            I mean, many people regret Lasik eye surgery. Should Lasik be banned?

          • prolifemama

            You say “they should receive as much support as humanly possible.” but you don’t say that it’ll be coming from you.

            Lasik surgery doesn’t have as its goal, the death of a helpless, voiceless, innocent human being.

            Legitimate surgery (non-emergency) includes going over all the details – the benefits, the risks – with the patient BEFORE s/he agrees to the procedure. Women in abortuaries don’t get this kind of treatment. It takes too long, and if women learned about the risks to their own physical and mental health, and just how abortion “ends” their pregnancy, most wouldn’t go through with it.

          • redlemon

            So how about pregnancy? Women can and do regret pregnancy. Quite often, women aren’t informed of *all* of the risks before becoming pregnant before agreeing to become pregnant. They don’t learn about the risks of post partum depression or psychosis except for a small blurb at the end of a piece of paper. Should pregnancy be outlawed then?

            And before you bring it up, many, many women are not informed of how adoption can affect their mental health in a negative manner. Women also regret adopting out their child. So, under your criteria, it should be outlawed, right?

          • almond_bubble_tea

            Yeah, I guess if a women regretted her pregnancy, antichoicemama would ignore her and say that was not her problem.

            The folks at LAN like to spread the lie that open adoption is the cure-all for all birth mothers who hesitate to give up their baby for adoption. The truth is, open adoption is not enforceable in many states.

          • redlemon

            Yeah. And conveniently ignore the fact that a regretted pregnancy can have extremely ill consequences for the unwanted born child and often results in mental health consequences for that born child. But hey, why care about that kid’s mental health, right?

            And I know of someone who placed her child up for open adoption. She started out okay, until the adoptive family restricted the “open” adoption to an email and picture a year. One email, one picture a year. That’s it. The birth mother is extremely traumatized by it, vowed to never give birth again (it made her suddenly very pro-choice), and has been having a heck of a time mentally. But who cares about her mental health, right?

          • almond_bubble_tea

            Thanks, redlemon. But note that anti-choice web sites will NEVER allow your friend’s story to be told. Heck, they’ll just highlight the “rosy” open adoption stories, like this one:

            http://www.teenbreaks.com/pregnancy/girlswhoadopted.cfm?start=12

            http://www.teenbreaks.com/pregnancy/girlswhoadopted.cfm?start=1

          • Arekushieru

            Also, Andrea Yates? Considering that she should have been a poster girl for their movement, I still doubt anyone from the Pro-‘Life’ side ever came out in support of her. They’re the ones who are responsible for such devastation to, not only the family, but Andrea, herself, after all.

          • Jennifer Starr

            The truth is, open adoption is not enforceable in many states.

            That’s a little caveat they fail to mention when setting up so-called ‘adoption plans’. The women agreeing to this often don’t realize that the adoptive family can cut off all contact as soon as everything is finalized and they won’t have any legal recourse.

          • fiona64

            ignore her and say that was not her problem.

            Of course she would! Just like she does every single other piece of reality.

            Dear Abby did an admittedly non-scientific study in which she asked parents to write in and answer either yes or no to “If you had it to do over again, would you still have children.” An astonishing 70 percent said NO, and yet you don’t see ProWomensDeathMiseryPimp advocating for the childfree.

          • fiona64

            Legitimate surgery (non-emergency) includes going over all the details –
            the benefits, the risks – with the patient BEFORE s/he agrees to the
            procedure. Women in abortuaries don’t get this kind of treatment.

            No such thing as an abortuary. However, I demand your citation that risks, benefits and alternative are NOT discussed prior to abortion. Why? Because, once again, you’re a fucking liar.

            http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-info/pregnancy/pregnant-now-what

            Quote:

            If you are pregnant, you have three options to think about — abortion, adoption, and parenting. Readingand learning about each one will help you get the facts and may help you decide. It may also help to weigh the benefits and risks of each one. Think about which benefits and risks are most important to you.

            Only you can decide what is right for you. But women often find it helpful to talk it through with someone else. You may choose to talk with your partner or a trusted family member or friend. Pick someone youthink will be supportive. It’s important to remember that you get to decide who is a part of your decision-making process.

            Family planning clinics, like your local Planned Parenthood health center, have specially trained staff who can talk with you about all of your options. But beware of so-called “crisis pregnancy centers”. Theseare fake clinics run by people who are anti-abortion. They often don’t
            give women all their options. They have a history of scaring women into not having abortions. Absolutely no one should pressure you or trick you into making a decision you’re not comfortable with.

            It may be important to take your time and think carefully about your decision. But you may not want to wait too long. Whether you choose adoption or to become a parent, if you plan to continue your pregnancy, you should begin prenatal care assoon as possible. And if you are considering abortion, you should know that abortion is very safe, but the risks increase the longer a pregnancy goes on.

            So, to no one’s surprise, ProWomensDeathMiseryPimp is lying again.

          • thedoorisajar

            but you don’t say that it’ll be coming from you.

            Haven’t mortgaged your house yet to pay for surgery that will save a dying child, have you?

            Lasik surgery doesn’t have as its goal, the death of a helpless, voiceless, innocent human being.

            So, you are saying that invasive surgery can never be traumatic unless it’s abortion?

            Sweetie, I had lasik, it’s scary as all heck. And there is a REAL risk of blindness. And you can smell your burning cornea. Not fun.

            Women in abortuaries don’t get this kind of treatment.

            Actually, they do. Fiona just proved you wrong on that. As did the Emily Letts video.

          • redlemon

            “I had lasik, it’s scary as all heck. And there is a REAL risk of blindness. And you can smell your burning cornea. Not fun.”

            My husband had the precursor to Lasik for a very real, very legitimate eye problem (cornea was essentially separating from his eye as it was sticking to his eyelid at night and being torn in the morning) The precursor is even scarier because they scrub off the cornea entirely and just let it grow back. It was not fun at all.

          • Arekushieru

            Actually, eroteme I am considering having Lasik surgery, myself. The date for that is coming up on September 10th. They have an option that’s called PRK, now, which is more expensive, but I don’t know if you have any experience with that or know what that’s about at all. My brother also had Lasik surgery, but he had the cheaper one, so his vision at night was a little affected.

          • http://www.scientificabortionlaws.com/ Russell Crawford

            You have been shown and have been warned numerous times that you are letting innocent born babies, children and adults die. Yet you make the intentional choice to continue to murder those humans. There are other fetuses that you could be saving. In fact 10 zygotes/embryos/fetuses die each second that you could save with my help. Yet you choose to let the fetuses die. You are a pathological pro lifer. You make the intentional choice to murder babies. That is insane.

          • Arekushieru

            Neither does abortion, regardless of the fact that there is no ‘helpless, innocent human being’ with regards to the fetus.

            As someone else said, physical and mental health risks of pregnancy are very rarely, even though they have MUCH longer to do so, if ever, discussed. Andrea Yates? How can you forget her? She’s the poster child for your movement, after all.

          • Arekushieru

            Sorry, but we listen to the women who regret and the women who don’t. YOU only listen to the FORMER. But, funnily enough, the reasons many women report for regret are exactly what we oppose: Coercion into abortion, stigmatization and shame from the antis, pre-existing circumstances, etc….

          • fiona64

            And I have a strong suspicion that those who are in constant emotional
            pain from their abortions are quickly ignored, if they say so much as
            one word of regret about their decision to abort.

            The women who have regret fall into two cohorts: women whose wanted pregnancies have gone wrong, and women who have been shamed by misogynistic pieces of excrement like you.

          • http://www.scientificabortionlaws.com/ Russell Crawford

            My excrement is insulted that you placed it in such low regard. My excrement is much nicer than any pro lifer.

          • http://www.scientificabortionlaws.com/ Russell Crawford

            Woman who feel guilty don’t feel guilty because of abortion, they feel guilty because the pro life movement makes them feel guilty.
            You murder real life children and feel no guilt. That is because you are a sociopath. You are proud of your murders.

          • Shan

            You forced birthers won’t listen to the women who aren’t wracked with guilt over their abortions. That’s why Reardon and Coleman’s papers don’t qualify as scientific research.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Over at Jill Stanek’s site, where prolifemama has been known to post, they positively rip into people who say they don’t regret their abortions. Ditto with people who state they don’t want to have any children or they only want one child.

          • almond_bubble_tea

            Wow, I didn’t know that. Thanks for the tip.

          • http://www.scientificabortionlaws.com/ Russell Crawford

            The only women racked with guilt are those that believe they have done something unethical. The fact is that there has been an increase in life after Roe. They share in that honorable increase in life and the improvement related to having chosen rather than forced births.

          • fiona64

            You proaborts won’t listen to the women themselves.

            No, you idiotic pox-closet: it’s the ANTI-CHOICE who won’t listen to the women themselves.

            You can start with imnotsorry.net.

          • http://www.scientificabortionlaws.com/ Russell Crawford

            They did flawed research. Much like you they are highly mentally deficient and void of ethics. You make the intentional choice to murder innocent babies, yet call yourself “pro life.”

            Reardon and Coleman have a choice as well, they can save innocent born babies or they can kill them and save fetuses instead. Their choice is to kill innocent babies, children and adults. Just like you and other pro lifers, they don’t have the reasoning abilities that would allow them to value the lives of real women and real humans. It is simply common sense that a person has autonomy over their own body. If you can’t understand that then you don’t have the mental acuity to understand the scientific side. Same for your two doctoral idiots.

          • goatini

            Never been “debunked”. Statistics prove that safe, legal pregnancy termination is at least 13x safer than any full term pregnancy.

          • http://www.scientificabortionlaws.com/ Russell Crawford

            Of course it is debunked — on its face. Read the study and you will see that there is no mention of the 70 percent of abortions that occur naturally. There is no physical difference in a natural abortion and an induced abortion. Therefore , their entire study is barely more than a joke.

          • fiona64

            Once again, you’re a fucking liar. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22270271

            Quote:

            CONCLUSION: Legal induced abortion is markedly safer than childbirth. The risk of death associated with childbirth is approximately 14 times higher than that with abortion. Similarly, the
            overall morbidity associated with childbirth exceeds that with abortion.

            Reardon and Coleman? Really? BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Only an anti-choice numbskull would buy anything those idiots are selling as they continue trying to tout “all post-abortive women are miserable and just don’t know it yet” bullshit.

            Oh, wait. I guess I have to consider the source: an anti-choice numbskull. Oops.

          • http://www.scientificabortionlaws.com/ Russell Crawford

            Reardon/Coleman study did not consider the fact that 70 percent of all conceptions end in abortion. Because they did not correct for that fact their study is invalid.

          • Nicole W.

            If God is so against abortion, then why does he allow miscarriages? No religious pro-lifer has given me a good reason for that. “Because it’s God’s will” doesn’t cut it for me. What sort of cruel deity allows people to get pregnant just to take that away from them? To punish them? Why should an innocent fetus be a pawn in God’s sick games if this is all because of God’s will? “Because of birth defects” doesn’t either. Why bother allowing some disabled to be born while naturally aborting the rest? Again, if birth defects are to punish the parents for doing something wrong, that’s just another example of a cruel God.

            This is partially what fueled my belief in a hands-off God who follows the laws of nature he set up. If God truly was some celestial busybody, then bad things wouldn’t happen to good people.

          • lady_black

            We don’t need a study. The death rates speak for themselves.

          • catseye

            Only in forced-birth bizarro world.

        • Arekushieru

          Then, if you truly care about life stop encouraging women to get pregnant and give birth!

          Sorry, but any assistance Pro-‘life’ gives is minimal, and, even at that, it comes at a price. “Dirty s1oots” relinquishing their children for adoption.. Pro-Choice has been providing STABLE funding to low-income women for decades. And provides meaningful choice, terminating or keeping a pregnancy, or keeping a child and raising him/her or releasing them to another family OR choosing if, when and with whom you choose to partner or not and/or parent or not.

          If you believe abortion should be legal, you also believe that rapists are free to violate the bodies of their victims and should not go to prison. If you do you are a hypocrite.

          There is no mother, father or child involved in a pregnancy. Fetuses are not human beings. It’s really not that hard to understand, but you insist on changing the definitions of words that mean specific things.

          To give you more specific example why there are none of the above involved: If the sperm donor is the rapist why I doubt very much you would be calling them a father. So, once again, applies only specific circumstances, not universally, which is what is required if you are not going to be changing the definitions of words that mean specific things. DARN. Also, you would be calling spermatozoa and ovum persons if you want to call embryos human beings. Precisely because they fit the requirement for what could be at least perceived as the minimum biological measurement of personhood: Human; individual; and MUCH better than fetuses/embryos ever could. Darn that logic, eh?

          • prolifemama

            If you believe abortion should be legal, you also believe that rapists are free to violate the bodies of their victims and should not go to prison. If you do you are a hypocrite.
            Huh? Did you mean to say “If you believe abortion should be <I?illegal…”?
            If you meant to say “illegal” then the rest of your statement still doesn’t make any sense. Again, with you proaborts it’s either/or, not both/and.
            Making abortion illegal doesn’t suddenly make rape legal.

          • lady_black

            I would never allow a rapist to be a father.

          • P. McCoy

            By your logic a knife or bullet, that damages someone else’s body isn’t responsible for the sins of its owner-that’s your view of the rapist’s sperm that assaults itself into the involuntary ovulation of the woman’s egg. The resulting ‘bayyybee’ is ‘innocent of the sins of its father’ but hey, to your kind, sperm is special, sperm is sacred..
            WELL as for ME , I’d excise that so called ‘ innocence’ out of my body as fast as I would a cancer cell-your prelest possessed “Padre Pio” crying that I just aborted and killed a future Pope be DAMMED!

          • Arekushieru

            Yup, I call certain methodologies of abortion killing because the instruments used do damage to the fetus’ body. And I would not hesitate to call the performing physician responsible for that, however, there are many things that still prevent them from being called murder, not the least of which is their patient’s right to medical privacy.

        • fiona64

          It’s really not that difficult to understand, unless you insist on changing the definitions of words that mean specific things.

          You mean, the way you insist that a diploid cell is an infant?

          Neither ‘choice’ is a safe one, for mothers OR their babies.

          Aside from the fact that no one is a mother until after birth of a live infant, and that no “babies” are involved in abortion … the statistics have been presented to you repeatedly that show abortion is 14x safer than gestation and delivery. It’s no one’s fault but your own that you can’t handle reality.

          Join us and show that you truly care about women’s lives and the lives of their families.

          Because I care about women’s lives and the lives of their families, I am no longer anti-choice.

        • goatini

          //There are real options for women facing unintended pregnancy//

          Yes. Safe, legal pregnancy termination is the BEST option.

          • fiona64

            … if that’s what the pregnant woman wants. More than half of pregnancies in this country are unplanned. Now, admittedly, unwanted and unplanned are not synonymous … and if the pregnancy is truly unwanted, you’re 100 percent correct.

            ProWomensDeathMama seems to think that we are just life support systems for our uterii, which is a perspective that makes me want to vomit. I know you aren’t trying to give the same impression that she does, which is that she thinks she knows best for total strangers … but I thought I’d point it out for readers who may not be aware.

        • cjvg

          I like sky diving and deep-sea diving, neither are real safe options, are you now going to attempt to pass a law I can no longer exercise these options?

          My teen daughter is learning to fly airplanes, this is not a safe option staying on the ground id safer, are now going to attempt to pass a law were she can no longer have that option?

          Your, transparent and very hypocritical “concern” for women’s choices is disgusting and frankly your thoughts on what choice she wants to me is completely irrelevant to the woman making that choice!

        • http://www.scientificabortionlaws.com/ Russell Crawford

          You could care less about babies/children/adults, much less zygotes/embryos/fetuses. There are 10 natural abortions each second that could be “saved.” Yet you let those fetuses die every second. You would be awarded a noble prize for saving the wanted fetuses, but you will be seen as evil for letting wanted fetuses die and attempting to save unwanted fetuses. This is not about saving life it is about your enormously low IQ and you inability to understand the scientific impact of your foolish choice.
          Add to that the fact that you have a choice to save babies or fetuses and you choose to let the babies die and your low IQ becomes even more obvious.

          • Arekushieru

            Russell, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen my posts about this, because I’m sorry I can’t keep track of the number of people who liked and who looked what, unfortunately. ^_^; But I have talked extensively about my own mother and how the life of my sibling would be non-existent if my mother had not had an abortion prior to their conception. Let’s put it this way, the date of birth for the fetus that was conceived PRIOR to my sibling, would have been AFTER the date of conception of my sibling. Therefore, that means they would have to now ignore an INDISPUTABLE person’s existence in favour of a simple fetus’.

          • Shan

            That goes to the same place as all the “OMG 55MILLION MISSING BABIES SINCE RVW!” people who don’t understand that women, when they have the means, end up having exactly the number of children they want to over the course of their reproductive lives. Which, apparently, you mom did.

        • lady_black

          Fertilization isn’t an event. It’s a process. And rapists should go to prison whether they impregnate their victims or not. Rape victims must never be forced to give birth. No woman should ever be forced to give birth. You’re on the side of fatherhood rights for rapists. I can never respect that.

          • Shan

            Makes me shudder. Because rapists and abusers just need one more REALLY HUGE way to gain or retain control over their victims.

        • P. McCoy

          Human beings don’t need 100% of one person’s internal body’s resources in order to exist-but cancer cells and parasites do-so they have a ‘right to life’ over the survival of the host body (aka the woman’s body), is that what you and your 2000 year old anti-woman cult is telling me? Not buying it and fighting so you can’t force your dysfunctional theology on others; keep it for yourself!

  • http://www.danaseilhan.com Dana

    I guess they can stop calling themselves “Complete Healthcare For Women,” then.

    I know Cleveland Avenue. There are going to be lots of women in that area NEEDING all those services and now they’ve lost an important one.

  • prolifemama

    Gurl, talk about loading the dice. Lots of replies below, to someone whose user name is “prolifemama,” but try to find the comments to which they’re responding… lots of “this comment was deleted” tombstones is all you’ll see.
    Guess that’s how opposing views are handled here – the cyberspace iron curtain.

    • fiona64

      When you violate terms of service, expect to be deleted.

      I have had posts deleted here … particularly when I wind up giving you a much-needed, well-deserved cussing out. ::shrug::

    • Jennifer Starr

      And if you’d ever been interested in actual dialogue instead of preaching to us I might feel sorry for you. As it happens, I really don’t.

    • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

      Stop insulting people and you might not be deleted. Stop pretending no one else gets comments deleted. I have gotten rude comments deleted myself. Stop pretending that you debate/discuss. In short, stop whining. That is all you do here besides shame and blame.

    • Nessie

      People might take your comments more seriously if you bothered to use proper spelling and grammar.

      • Gaiuse Strome

        And if she didn’t

        1) lie

        2) refuse to address opposing points

        2) didn’t ignore citations

        • Nessie

          If she didn’t do those things, she couldn’t be anti-choice anymore.

          • Gaiuse Strome

            Lulz