Forcing Abortion Clinic Closures Is Immoral—the Virginia Board of Health Should Make Changes Now


The most important thing for abortion rights coming out of Richmond, Virginia, this fall isn’t likely to be a piece of legislation, but rather a decision from the state Board of Health: Should punitive abortion clinic regulations shoved onto the books by Ken Cuccinelli during his term as attorney general be repealed and rewritten, amended, or upheld?

The stringent regulations adopted in May 2013 classify abortion clinics as a “category of hospital,” and an executive directive signed by Gov. Terry McAuliffe (D) requires a periodic review be completed by October 1, 2014. The board must decide whether to keep the rules, change the rules, or start over.

Let’s start with the wrong answer. Upholding Virginia’s targeted regulation of abortion providers (TRAP) law would be a nightmare for public health in the commonwealth, because the clinic regulations exist solely for the purpose of shutting abortion clinics down. Making abortion more difficult to access does not wave a magic wand that converts women with unwanted pregnancies into beaming mothers-to-be.

Instead it forces women to carry pregnancies they do not want for longer periods of time, in some cases making abortion more expensive and more time-intensive. It also makes it more likely that women will be forced to seek unsafe abortion methods. That’s ironic. Proponents of TRAP laws like to concern-troll for women’s health and safety, because that plays better with the public than stating their real goal: shutting clinics down so as to physically eliminate access to abortion—a procedure they claim is immoral and unnecessary. Since the adoption of the regulations in Virginia, five clinics offering abortion have closed, and 18 remain vulnerable to closure should the state Board of Health neglect its duty to act to “[promote] and [protect] the health of all Virginians.”

Yes, Virginia, there will always be people who need abortions within your borders. It is your duty as a commonwealth to ensure that those abortions can be legally, safely, and swiftly obtained free from state coercion and third-party harassment—something considered a given for other health-care procedures.

TRAP laws are local problems, but national in reach and impact. More than half the states now have a TRAP law on the books creating onerous, unnecessary, and often unattainable licensing standards or hospital admitting privilege requirements for doctors, prohibitively expensive structural requirements for facilities, or both. What follows is both predictable and wrong: the closure of clinics. In one example, the omnibus anti-abortion law in Texas, HB 2, forced nearly half of the state’s clinics to close within a year, leading to a dramatic reproductive health-care crisis in the state.

It’s immoral to attack access to abortion, because it creates grave human suffering and is a proxy for attacking the legal status of women as persons. It’s especially a proxy for attacking the legal status of women of color and poor women, because they are both more likely to seek abortion and less likely to have the resources to buy their way past state-sponsored restrictions on abortion.

In the case of this TRAP law and restrictions upon abortion more generally, it’s important not just to take the moral high ground but also to step outside of an opposing framework that paints abortion as a matter of naughty behavior, because abortion is neither naughty nor properly understood as a behavior.

Yes, you read that right. It’s time to stop focusing on abortion as a behavior, because the availability of abortion, whether people use it or not, is just one aspect of reproductive autonomy that is central to identity. In the words of University of Texas Professor John Robertson:

Reproductive experiences … are central to personal conceptions of meaning and identity. To deny procreative choice is to deny or impose a crucial self-defining experience, thus denying persons respect and dignity at the most basic level.

So yes, TRAP laws are immoral and oppressive, and it’s important to say that first, because we need a new dialogue on abortion. But it’s also important to consider there’s a convincing case to be made that TRAP laws are unconstitutional by virtue of their design to force abortion clinic closures, a case made recently by U.S. District Judge Myron Thompson in his decision striking Alabama’s admitting privileges requirement:

The evidence compellingly demonstrates that the requirement would have the striking result of closing three of Alabama’s five abortion clinics .… Indeed, the court is convinced that, if this requirement would not, in the face of all the evidence in the record, constitute an impermissible undue burden, then almost no regulation, short of those imposing an outright prohibition on abortion, would.

So what’s next? It’s time for Virginia to do the right thing and repeal and replace the current clinic regulations law, or amend it so that it is not used as a blunt force instrument for closing clinics down.

That position appears to be the side of Virginians. A statewide survey found 58 percent opposing the clinic regulations when it was explained they would require existing abortion clinics, which are outpatient facilities, to be reconstructed as if they were new hospitals. Last year’s election of Gov. McAuliffe was largely seen as a referendum on the harsh anti-abortion rights agenda of Governor Bob McDonnell (R) and attorney general and gubernatorial candidate Cuccinelli. Shortly before the closure of a public comment period on the review this July, The Washington Post reported that about 7,000 comments were sent to the Virginia Department of Health. According to a blog post published by NARAL Pro-Choice Virginia, 4,844 of those comments were pro-choice, anti-TRAP comments it hand-delivered in concert with allied organizations ProgressVA, the American Civil Liberties Union of Virginia, and Planned Parenthood Advocates of Virginia. An email sent the afternoon of the deadline by the Family Foundation of Virginia—an organization that lobbies for the TRAP law—said just 828 supporters had sent messages through their system.

The regulations have consistently been the subject of outcry; Indeed, it has been alleged in a pending lawsuit filed by the Falls Church Healthcare Center that Cuccinelli inappropriately pressured the board of health to drop a “grandfather clause” that would have exempted existing facilities from having to comply with the new regulations. Allegations of inappropriate pressure and politics surrounding the adoption of the regulations also led to the resignation of Dr. Karen Remley as Virginia’s health commissioner in 2012, and public dissent from multiple medical experts who had provided formal recommendations that were ignored.

Dr. Marissa Levine currently leads the Virginia Department of Health and will be charged with approving the results of the state Board of Health’s review expected by October 1. If the right decision is made—to amend or repeal and replace the regulations—the regulatory process could take another two years. It is clear advocates must keep watching and weighing in, and we cannot stop until clinic regulations are no longer used as an immoral political instrument with only one song: shutting down legal abortion facilities.

Note: Erin Matson serves on the board of directors of the NARAL Pro-Choice Virginia Foundation. The opinions expressed here are her own.

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Follow Erin Matson on twitter: @erintothemax

  • fiona64

    It’s immoral to attack access to abortion, because it creates grave human suffering and is a proxy for attacking the legal status of women as persons.

    Exactly.

    • Shan

      I was just reading some of Judge Thompson’s decision where he struck down Alabama’s admitting privileges law. It’s pretty good if you have some time to get into it – there’s a link in the article above. He pretty much shreds it.

  • Max

    Trap laws . Love them! Wilberforce was the instrument that open the eyes of people on the “grave suffering” that slaves had to endure and made humanity see the”immorality” of it. The same will be for abortion as we have seen especially this year of 2014 Little by little .

    • Nessie

      Go fuck yourself, troll.

      • Max

        Yeah .you know what Nessie ? You sound like the two YOUNG girls that drove by while I was holding a sign in front of an abortion clinic against abortion saying “fuck you ” out the window and you know what I thought ? It’s not an easy thing trying to confuse a conscience that will not stay dead. Think deep long and hard on that one dear .it took me many years but I finally did .peace girl!

        • Nessie

          Trolls like you deserve no respect. Get off this site, and rethink your own life before you attempt to control someone else’s.

          • Max

            Once you understand that this is not about control but about life and death laws established to protect and not harm .just like any other laws created for justice .

          • Dez

            No this is about racists like you that are no better than the raping and torturing slave owners of trying to roll back time to when women had no rights. I bet you are christian like the slave owners too and think they know better than black women about their bodies because of your magic book and imaginary friend. You are incapable of trusting black women because you know we will make a different choice than you based on our own life experiences and intelligence.

          • catseye

            It is trying to justify the unjustifiable end of using women as breeding stock. It is obscene.

          • fiona64

            Once you understand that this is not about control

            Liar. It is now, and always has been, about controlling women’s sexuality. I’m sorry you’re too stupid to see that.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            No thank you. Will have lots of hot sex. Will use birth control. If I get pregnant, will give birth or will abort as I see fit. Not as YOU see fit.

        • Jennifer Starr

          You’re a sidewalk stalker. Why am I not surprised?

          • Max

            If the shoe fits ,I wear it .but sidewalk ? Yes .stalker? Nah more like life saver

          • thedoorisajar

            And how many lives have you saved?

          • Max

            Many ,many many ,many my dear

          • thedoorisajar

            You’re lying.

          • Max

            Seems you are judge and jury .uh?

          • thedoorisajar

            Sidewalk harassment is ineffective

          • Max

            Not so .you know nothing

          • thedoorisajar
          • Max

            Can’t win sister

          • cjvg

            Because you know better then the actual person involved right?! SO not working. You are just an arrogant nasty wannabe bossmaster.

            I’m telling you that what you are really feeling is the smug satisfaction of forcing others to have to deal with you to get the medical care they need and want.

            You are just such an insignificant nothing that this is the only way you can feel like you have some meaning, that your existence matters.

            It is actually really sad, but still women are not toys to be used by you to make yourself feel like you have any meaning!

          • Max

            Another glass of wine might work for you tonight .anger management MIGHT work too

          • cjvg

            You mean so little to anyone that you feel a desperate need to insert yourself into the most private medical decisions of others, just so you can convince yourself you count for something.

          • Max

            Life for children in the womb means the world to me.

          • cjvg

            But as soon as they are out you don’t give a damn. If you actually respected live and children, no child would go hungry in the US No child would be a ward of the state. No child would be without comprehensive health insurance. No child would be homeless. No child would lack save and adequate schooling etc.

            THAT is what you would write your congress man about if you actually cared about children. That is what you would fix first before you forced more unwanted kids to be born

          • Max

            You live in a dream world lady

          • cjvg

            So it is a dream world if I expect (that a man who loudly and ostentatiously proclaims that his respect for life and love for children leads him to oppose abortion) takes action to ensure that those same children have every basic need to grow up healthy and whole provided for? That more then anything blatantly shows you for what a cruel inhuman thing you really are.!!!!!!!!

          • catseye

            There ARE _NO_ “children” in a womb; EVER. Children are BORN.

          • Arekushieru

            But not so for the women, y’know, what you people perceive as the ‘meat’ around the UTERUS.

          • Arekushieru

            We have a reason to be angry. YOU do not.

          • Max

            no im not angry . theres peace inside when you know your on the right side. as you can see by my posts i dont lash out like you angry athiests its one thing to be angry over injustice ,but another thing to be hateful vulgar and classless.you see im happy about that because univerally you are seen as not having any credibility. none of you can control your emotions

          • Arekushieru

            I’m not an atheist. Nice ASSUmption, there. Yeah, when one’s rights are attacked daily, it;s JUSTIFIABLE to get angry and they just accept it without saying a word Hitler and his Pro-‘Life’ (which includes you, of course) brigade, happen. Like I said, YOU have nothing to be angry for, since we are not attacking ANYONE’S rights. We do, because YOU are attacking ours. If you are angry it will be perceived as being because you are too emotional AND you aren’t seen as having any credibility. Nice attempt at self-projection, again, though.

          • Max

            You are attacking the rights of children developing in the womb. They cannot speak ! You take away their right to life. They WILL speak one day

          • Max

            I don’t get mad like you .i get even . I email my congressman and make laws against killing children in the womb work

          • cjvg

            Like I said, so pathetic that the only way your live actually amounts to anything is if you can force others to live as you dictate. Small and insignificant you are indeed

          • Max

            Than you

          • Max

            Destroying life in the womb that 2 people create is hardly insignificant …….personal attacks are insignificant . Means nothing to me. What is very significant is how YOU personally display yourself here . Speaks volumes

          • eroteme

            Enslaving women is hardly insignificant.

          • Max

            Your condoning abortion is the highest form of enslaving women ,for the rest of their natural life

          • eroteme

            Oh, abortion is enslaving.

            So female slaves who were raped and forced to give birth were really “free” in your book?

          • Max

            Slave men and women were set free from the inhumanity(you know OWNERSHIP) by laws that were created..get out of the slavery topic and get on to abortion .abortion enslaves a woman for the rest of her life in the fact that they will ALWAYS know deep down it was wrong.start blogging women who regret their abortion .read some of these stories before you comment so you can have a well rounded opinion.these are women of conscience and deep regret .if you tell me not all women regret their abortion that is true but they still have a long life left to reflect.as I said women of ” conscience ” and where their is no regret their is no conscience!

          • catseye

            There are NO “children” in a womb. Children are BORN; learn some biology.

          • Max

            Correct .you won’t let them live

          • Arekushieru

            Get even? For what? Women exercising their full autonomous rights? Why do you keep saying things that are the OPPOSITE of your claims to be female? Because the only reason you need to get even for that is if you ARE male.

            No children or killing involved in abortion. But laws that actually kill women and restrict women’s rights are A-OK.

          • cjvg

            It is obvious that he feels aggrieved about having his ownership rights over women taken away. Who else would see this issue as a way to get even!

          • Arekushieru

            You’re right you guys can’t win.

          • thedoorisajar

            For instance, a 2013 study that involved interviewing 1,000 women who had abortions found that seeing protesters outside of the clinic made many them feel upset, and those negative feelings increased as women’s contact with protesters increased. But participants said that encountering abortion opponents didn’t actually change their mind about the procedure itself.

          • Max

            They should feel upset and those negative feelings are the RED light (conscience) are going to follow them for many many years.

          • thedoorisajar

            Negative feelings caused by perverts like you.

          • Max

            Go deeper dear

          • thedoorisajar

            You are skeevey.

          • Max

            Aw we there is a word for you .narcissistic. There IS another side here dear .go deeper

          • thedoorisajar

            Please elaborate

          • Arekushieru

            Nope, narcissistic only applies to those who think they have a right to control what other people do with their bodies. That would be YOU, not tdiaj.

          • Arekushieru

            Here’s another misery pimp, obviously. Just can’t stand women who are happy with exercising their RIGHTS to life and bodily autonomy, CAN you? MOST women report relief after having an abortion. And their opinion and sense of relief never changes. HMM….

          • Max

            Dead wrong .you must be speaking of yourself or someone you helped stop a beating heart

          • cjvg

            So wait, a woman tells you that most women feel relief after ending an unwanted pregnancy and you acknowledge that this is possibly true?!

            Oh, maxi you are learning to listen to women on what they say about their and their sisters, mothers, daughters, friends experiences! Is there hope for you, might you have finally learned that women are actual human beings who are fully capable of making their own rational well thought out decisions? Yes, you’ve got it, women do not need you to mansplain what they are feeling, they already know!

            Besides maxi, it might be an abortion before 8 weeks, no beating heart involved, what are you going to harp on now?

          • Max

            Never said a woman feels relief please reread post please

          • cjvg

            You stated that either Arekushieru or someone she helped must be feeling relief in reply to her post that most women feel relief after an abortion. Well, you don’t even know what you write?

          • Max

            Prove it

          • Arekushieru

            She just did. Read what you wrote, then read what she wrote.

          • Max

            Testimonies of Women Who Have Had Abortions *(Presented to …
            https://www.ewtn.com/library/PROLIFE/TESTIMS.TXT
            “Horror on Beacon Street” by Barbara Bell Planned Parenthood hates me. Every Saturday morning I stand outside their abortion clinic and minister to the women …these women have no regrets huh? “What am I going to harp on now” you call this your right? The life long destruction that follows you ALL the days of your life

          • fiona64

            An anti-choice Catholic website that hosts a blog from an anti-choice source. What a laugh.

          • Max

            Brilliant ! Who else would post abortion regrets ! Pro death people .bwahahaha!

          • fiona64

            Instead of reading fiction, you might try some facts: http://imnotsorry.net would be a good place to begin.

          • Arekushieru

            Then why did you a Pro-Deather post some? Also, WE are not the ones who ASSume that no woman regrets her abortion (although you have already been TOLD that women who do often cite pre-existing circumstances, stigmatization and harassment by antis and that the abortion was coerced, something that most antis have ensured will happen), but YOU are the ones who ASSume that all women do regret their abortions.

          • fiona64

            Every Saturday morning I stand outside their abortion clinic and minister to the women

            Shrieking like a harpy is not “ministering.” Nor, I suspect, are you ordained; you lack the intellect to get through divinity school.

            “What am I going to harp on now” you call this your right? The life long destruction that follows you ALL the days of your life

            Is anyone so great a simpleton as to believe that a) all pro-choice women have had abortions, or b) that no pro-choice woman is a virgin?

            What about the women who don’t have regret — which, BTW, is the vast majority of women post-abortion?

          • Max

            Mixing up two replies?? Confused? Vast majority ? Prove it

          • fiona64

            While i find it laughable that you of all people demand sources, I will cheerfully provide them.

            http://mic.com/articles/58413/90-of-women-feel-relieved-after-abortion-0-feel-relieved-by-erick-erickson

            And just in case you’re not clear? 90 percent constitutes a vast majority.

            And no, you knotty-pated twit, I was not “mixing up two replies.” I quoted you directly. Are you not bright enough to recognize your own words?

          • Max

            There’s “class ” and there’s “trash ” ….You can never go wrong with class . Night night little girl

          • Max

            The vast majority are young women who haven’t hit the wall yet .trust me on that one !

          • Arekushieru

            The vast majority? Confused? Prove it.

            Also, the majority of women who have had abortions are married and had children already, of which my mom is one.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Nope.

          • Arekushieru

            Nope. I have NEVER HAD an abortion, nor have I ever known someone (that includes my own mother because I was not old enough at the time to ‘know’ her when she did have the abortion) when they had an unwanted pregnancy in order TO help them. Every pregnancy I’ve encountered, within my own family and friends has always been wanted. So, you must really be talking about the feelings of relief someone feels after having an abortion, since you have apparently ASSumed you know everything there is to know about me, meaning you must have known that I or anyone else I know has NOT actually had an abortion, already. Oops..

            Btw, ‘beating hearts’ means nothing, since they can be replicated in a petri dish even without the ‘aid’ of an embryo/zygote containing them.

          • Max

            Testimonies of Women Who Have Had Abortions *(Presented to …
            https://www.ewtn.com/library/PROLIFE/TESTIMS.TXT
            “Horror on Beacon Street” by Barbara Bell Planned Parenthood hates me. Every Saturday morning I stand outside their abortion clinic and minister to the women ………..this article was especially designed for you Arekushieru and hand delivered .cant stand women exercising their right? So your claim that pro life people are anti women ? War on women ? Really ? Rather see women die than give them the choice to kill in the womb their children?read through these testimonies with your so called devout Christian values and tell me these women are not “the walking dead”! This is what your promoting . You who claim what?

          • fiona64

            Your anti-choice misery-pimping is duly noted. You would rather that women die of gestational complications, just like Savita. Her blood is on your hands.

          • Arekushieru

            And read about the MILLIONS MORE of women who have had abortions and went on to live full lives with no regrets but lots of relief. The MILLIONS of women who have not had someone proselytizing, shaming, guilting, stigmatizing, stalking, harassing, threatening, harming and KILLING women and abortion providers for YEARS. That’s PRECISELY what that article tells me it’s about, y’know. Just another shameless anti scaring, victimizing and PREACHING to women.

            Or, as Fiona said, the women who die DAILY from gestational, pregnancy, childbirth and delivery complications.

          • Max

            And you have not one ounce of compassion from the ones who walked the walk . You obviously haven’t gotten there yet or have no compassion for someone that has .there are two sides to this debate and a thinking mind would have a diplomatic discussion but hey ,I guess not with you .night night little girl

          • Max

            Question . If women are so adamant that they want their rights ,why are they upset ? Seems to me that conscience is something to think about

          • thedoorisajar

            Because you are a pervert.

          • cjvg

            Well if you stop trying to get in their face about their personal medical decisions they would not be, ever think about that?
            Would you like to have a complete stranger attempt to interrogate, lecture and berate you outside of your doctors office? Of course you are more then willing to disclose why you are there and what if any procedure you are seeking, right!
            I don’t like solicitor’s, obviously I have a bad conscious because I know I’m not going to buy whatever they are peddling! You are merely a solicitor who happens to be extremely brazen.
            You have the nerve to tell me that my opinions and beliefs do not matter because I MUST buy what you are “selling” And if I still do not buy your crap you will attempt to p[ass laws forcing me to for no other reason then that you think your beliefs are better then mine! GET LOST CREEP!

          • Max

            You speak as if abortion is a commodity .hmm interesting

          • cjvg

            Reading comprehension is NOT a luxury

          • thedoorisajar
          • cjvg

            Yeas I knew about her and her organization. Unfortunately she is not quite aware of how bad it really is here. Like most Europeans we are still under the impression that Americans pretty much live like us.

          • Max

            Lol love your source!

          • Jennifer Starr

            No, but people don’t like being harassed about their private medical decisions on the sidewalk any more than they like door-to-door salesmen, telemarketers, etc. All involve strangers trying to insert themselves where they don’t belong.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Abortion is a medical procedure I can purchase. Sort of like an appendectomy. I guess in that sense it is a commodity.
            com·mod·i·ty
            noun
            1 a raw material or primary agricultural product that can be bought and sold, such as copper or coffee.
            synonyms:item, material, product, article, object; More
            2 a useful or valuable thing, such as water or time.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            This would upset any sane person. I am so impressed that the young black woman did not kick the everloving shit out of BabySaverServant.
            http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/2014/08/are-they-prostitutes-asks.html

          • Jennifer Starr

            Oh that’s Sharon. That woman is hateful, obnoxious, and she has a voice that sounds like fingernails on a chalkboard.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Her name is Sharon? I just found her. What a kunt.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Yeah, she used to call herself “Sharon Babysaver” . Don’t know her actual name–she’s pretty guarded about that. Perhaps the hypocrite is afraid of being harassed the way she harasses others?

          • Max

            lol too funny

          • Jennifer Starr

            No, she does harass others. Quite frequently, as her videos illustrate.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            This would upset any sane person. Tribute to the Father’s character that he did not spit on them.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEFWDYB0rWo

          • fiona64

            Question: Why are you so fucking stupid?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I am absolutely judge and jury in my own life.

          • Max

            I can tell

          • catseye

            ONE Planned Parenthood clinic, in ONE city, in ONE hour of operation, prevents more abortions than ALL forced-birth organizations together, in the WHOLE of their existence; because they PREVENT UNWANTED PREGNANCIES via education and affordable birth control.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Liar liar pants on fire.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Would sidewalk harasser suit you better?

          • Max

            I speak for those who have no say due to angry atheist s like yourself

          • Jennifer Starr

            The only pregnancies you get to speak for are your own.

          • Max

            you wish. the problem you cant stop me

          • Arekushieru

            That’s what ISIS says, They must be so proud of you.

          • Arekushieru

            Nope, misogynistic theists who would like to prevent (other) women from remaining people and humans like yourself are the reason we, true practicing Christians, who actually worship God (not Satan like yourself) and atheists alike are angry. More and more denominations are coming out in support of abortion, especially since they are no longer blind to what the Bible ACTUALLY says about abortion, which is, if it isn’t nothing, to discuss forced abortion, which is not Pro-Choice but anti-choice just like you. Just not the anti-choice you like.

          • Max

            Wrong .the pro choice movement is growing stronger and stronger especially in the younger generation. Oh by the way ,Christian ? You can’t pick and choose what you want to believe .
            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou_shalt_not_kill
            You shall not murder (Hebrew לֹא תִּרְצָח lo tirṣaḥ) (sometimes translated as … The Hebrew Bible contains numerous prohibitions against unlawful killing, but …
            ‎Hebrew Bible – ‎Jewish interpretation – ‎New Testament view

      • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

        You know nobody else will fuck him. What a scrub.

        • Nessie

          Freud would have a field day with his type.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            God’s truth. Freud would find it fascinating. I will break its face, in a Quakerly fashion of course.

    • conversate

      Slaves were repeatedly raped and forced to give birth. Those slaves aborted their pregnancies through any means possible.

      • Arekushieru

        Considering that slave-owners had the same idea as anti-choicers like Max from the very beginning.

        • Max

          That was a gazillion years ago and you know how THAT turned out

          • thedoorisajar

            Yeah, slave women routinely aborted their forced pregnancies.

            Were they murderers in your opinion, hunny?

          • Max

            No “honey” they were not. These were desperate times unlike today with ALL ALL kinds of options .no slaves today hunny . Sorry your not making points here. Read up on slavery and get back to me hunny

          • thedoorisajar

            As Dorothy Roberts writes in Killing the Black Body: Race, Reproduction and the Meaning of Liberty, “[t]he essence of Black women’s experience during slavery was the brutal denial of autonomy over reproduction.” Female slaves’ ability to produce more slaves was central to the economic interests of slaveowners and, once the importation of slaves was banned, to the perpetuation of the institution of slavery. A woman’s reproductive capacity figured into her price on the market and was as valuable as labor in the fields. As Thomas Jefferson wrote, “I consider a woman who brings a child every two years as more profitable than the best man on the farm.”

            Slaveowners beat women who did not reproduce or sold them, separating them from their families. Some engaged in slave-breeding, forcing slaves considered “prime stock” to mate in order to produce particularly valuable new slaves for labor or sale. Evidence exists that slaves resisted slaveowners’ demands that they reproduce by using herbal and other makeshift contraceptive and abortive methods. Slaveowners were free to rape slaves with impunity and the children who resulted increased their wealth. A slave women’s child was not her own, but the property of her master. Even prior to conception, a slaveowner held a property interest in a woman’s future children that could be bequeathed by will.

            Slavery separated black women from their future children at the moment of conception, treating the interests of the fetus as separate and conflicting with that of the mother. Though this conception of the fetus as having distinct interests to be protected from the mother is a familiar part of our discourse and legal framework today, this division did not exist for white women at the time. Professor Roberts describes one method of whipping pregnant women that illustrates this early conception of the maternal-fetal conflict. The mother would be forced to lay with her stomach in a hole dug in the ground so the mother could be beaten while the fetus was protected. “It is the most striking metaphor I know for the evils of policies that seek to protect the fetus while disregarding the humanity of the mother,” she writes.

            Professor Koppelman has previously argued, on the basis of Supreme Court precedent interpreting the Thirteenth Amendment’s prohibition of slavery and involuntary servitude to protect individual liberty and equality, that the government may not prohibit abortion. To do so would be to require physical service from a woman for the benefit of a fetus.

            As Professor Roberts explains, “[w]e often envision the hallmark of slavery’s inhumanity as the slave picking cotton under the overseer’s lash.” However, “[a]s much as slaves’ forced labor, whites’ control of slave women’s wombs perpetrated many of slavery’s greatest atrocities.” The Thirteenth Amendment prohibits treating human beings as they were treated under antebellum slavery. The denial of reproductive autonomy is a brutal and under-recognized aspect of that treatment.

            ——-

            This is what you support. You support force gestation, just like a slaver.

          • Dez

            You should research and know that you are no different than the white christian slave owners who justified raping and torturing black women with unwanted pregnancies to produce more slaves. Like them you disregard what whether we want to be pregnant or not and dismiss us as stupid or brainwashed. If you had any respect for black women you would not speak to us like you have on this site by implying we do not understand abortion or how pregnancy works. Your mindset is why people like you should be identified as a terrorist along with the rest of the current “pro-life” movement that sees nothing wrong about poor women of color being maimed and killed by Gosnell’s because that’s what we “deserve.”

          • cjvg

            How nice now the guy is not only mansplaining what women really are feeling is colorsplaining too.

            Amazing how this guy has no shame and does not even see a speck of irony in a white guy explaining to women how they really feel even if they don’t know it yet and to a black person what the effect of slavery really was like and that it is no longer felt and on top of that to a black woman how the aftermath and history of forced pregnancy through rape and seeing your child treated as a commodity actually felt.

            On behave of all empathic human beings, I’m sorry you had to hear that smut from this guy! I can relate but do not have that additional history, and I felt insulted reading that

          • Max

            Yeah right blah blah blah

          • cjvg

            Of course you think women do not count, and their feelings are completely irrelevant. You don’t have to keep telling us we are well aware that you do not think women are actual lives that deserve respect !

          • Max

            Just to set you straight .i am a 58 yr. old women who fights long and hard through many channels to help snuff out the act of killing in the womb,to defend the defenseless and speak for those who can’t speak for themselves .take a look at how far we have come in the laws these days.little by little ,law by law .one step back four steps forward. Sorry you have a problem with that.you go ahead and blog and continue to loose your cool and I’ll keep writing to my congressman

          • Max

            Black women AND men of slavery has been abolished because the eyes of the world have woken up too the fact that’s slavery is in humane . The topic is about slavery .on to abortion .in humane at its highest form of degradation

          • Max

            Nailed it ! Brainwashed

          • fiona64

            You’re not really good at math, are you?

          • Max

            Is that all you’ve got? Pretty childish and base ,wouldn’t you say?

        • Max

          Are you angry you can’t have a slave? Hmmmm. Read your own post

      • Max

        Yes that was over 100years ago and counting. That was survival for these oppressed woman ! This is a new day with new technology and there’s no excuse to drag these values to today’s . There are no more desperate slaves today taking drastic measures ,only women that want the right to kill in the womb for the majority of reasons being inconvenience.

        • thedoorisajar

          Convenience, you say?

          Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:

          exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
          altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
          nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
          heartburn and indigestion
          constipation
          weight gain
          dizziness and light-headedness
          bloating, swelling, fluid retention
          hemmorhoids
          abdominal cramps
          yeast infections
          congested, bloody nose
          acne and mild skin disorders
          skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
          mild to severe backache and strain
          increased headaches
          difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
          increased urination and incontinence
          bleeding gums
          pica
          breast pain and discharge
          swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint pain
          difficulty sitting, standing in later pregnancy
          inability to take regular medications
          shortness of breath
          higher blood pressure
          hair loss
          tendency to anemia
          curtailment of ability to participate in some sports and activities
          infection including from serious and potentially fatal disease
          (pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
          extreme pain on delivery
          hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
          continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section — major surgery — is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)

          Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:

          stretch marks (worse in younger women)
          loose skin
          permanent weight gain or redistribution
          abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
          pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life — aka prolapsed utuerus, the malady sometimes badly fixed by the transvaginal mesh)
          changes to breasts
          varicose veins
          scarring from episiotomy or c-section
          other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
          increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
          loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)
          higher lifetime risk of developing Altzheimer’s
          newer research indicates microchimeric cells, other bi-directional exchanges of DNA, chromosomes, and other bodily material between fetus and mother (including with “unrelated” gestational surrogates)

          Occasional complications and side effects:

          complications of episiotomy
          spousal/partner abuse
          hyperemesis gravidarum
          temporary and permanent injury to back
          severe scarring requiring later surgery
          (especially after additional pregnancies)
          dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses — 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
          pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 – 10% of pregnancies)
          eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
          gestational diabetes
          placenta previa
          anemia (which can be life-threatening)
          thrombocytopenic purpura
          severe cramping
          embolism (blood clots)
          medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
          diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
          mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
          serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
          hormonal imbalance
          ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
          broken bones (ribcage, “tail bone”)
          hemorrhage and
          numerous other complications of delivery
          refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
          aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
          severe post-partum depression and psychosis
          research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including “egg harvesting” from infertile women and donors
          research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
          research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease

          Less common (but serious) complications:

          peripartum cardiomyopathy
          cardiopulmonary arrest
          magnesium toxicity
          severe hypoxemia/acidosis
          massive embolism
          increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
          molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease
          (like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
          malignant arrhythmia
          circulatory collapse
          placental abruption
          obstetric fistula

          More permanent side effects:

          future infertility
          permanent disability
          death.

          • Max

            Awwee! Bummer you have to suffer so much to give life to the very thing that will save your life! Give it up !

          • thedoorisajar

            Are death and disability minor inconveniences?

          • Max

            Is advocating abortion and killing children in the womb worth eternal death ? ………mionr inconvenience ? Hmmmmmmm

          • thedoorisajar

            So you are telling me that you think women should die from pregnancy as punishment for having sex?

          • Max

            Comprehension skills lackinggggggg! If you can’t figure this out your stupid

          • thedoorisajar

            yes, that seems to be what you are saying

            that women who abort should get the death penalty

            eh?

          • Max

            Your becoming unhinged now .get a grip show me the stats of death from childbirth

          • thedoorisajar

            250k women die worldwide from pregnancy
            Maternal mortality is the leading cause of death for young fertile women
            20 million women are permanently injured every year, worldwide

            800 women die from pregnancy in the USA
            1.2 million are permanently injured

            Tell me Max, should you, personally, be forced to risk death and disability to save a life?

          • Max

            [PDF]Confronting the Myths About Maternal Mortality and Abortion
            http://www.familywatchinternational.org/…/fwipolicybriefMaternal_Mortality_an...
            Fact: Liberalized abortion laws may ac tually increase maternal mortality rates. … countries, the number of maternal deaths worldwide could be significantly …

          • thedoorisajar

            Yeah dude sorry, that is a biased source. That source is a pro-life anti-gay site. Try again.

            Each year in the U.S., about 800 women die of pregnancy-related complications and 52,000 experience emergencies such as acute renal failure, shock, respiratory distress, aneurysms and heart surgery. That’s about 2% of births per year. 25% will suffer permanent physical maiming or injury.An additional 34,000 barely avoid death. Maternal death in the US is about 21/100,000, or about 0.021%

            A 27.22% risk of permanent injury, disability and even death. Is this not enough risk for you? Should you be forced to risk this to preserve life? Should anyone? Why do you get to choose for women? Why is your view on risk assessment more valid than the person who is actually facing the risk?

            Data modeling suggesting 21/100,000 US maternal mortality rate

            In 2004/2005, 1.7 million women per year suffered adverse health effects

            http://data.worldbank.org/country/united-states

            http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/campaigns/demand-dignity/maternal-health-is-a-human-right/maternal-health-in-the-us

            http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/why-are-so-many-u-s-women-dying-during-childbirth/article_dd916b4b-38f0-5bae-ba42-ddee636e4cf4.html

            http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/dec/10/torn-apart-by-childbirth

            http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-buzz/opera-singer-suing-hospital-episiotomy-left-her-severe-162302400.html

            http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.STA.MMRT

            http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2014/03/why-are-american-women-dying-childbirth-201438161633539780.html

            http://www.facethefactsusa.org/facts/more-us-mothers-dying-despite-expensive-care

            childbirth (stats for U.S.):

            Postpartum depression: 5 to 25%
            PTSD from childbirth: 5.9%
            Miscarriages: 11 to 22% (related: ectopic pregnancies and early pregnancy hemorrhages)
            Maternal mortality in the U.S: 21 per 100,000 live births
            Stillbirths: 1 in 160
            Pre-eclampsis: 6-8%
            Post-partum hemorrhage: 13%

            Pregnancy worsens lupus, thyroid disease, and diabetes.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Cite unbiased sources only. Family Watch? Bwha ha ha ha ha.

          • fiona64

            HTTP Error 404.0 – Not Found

            The resource you are looking for has been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.

            Oops, “Max.” Looks like your fake link doesn’t work.

            And “Family Watch International” is a bigoted, fact-free joke. http://www.familywatchinternational.org/fwi/about_us.cfm

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            No problem, Stupid. There is also a paragraph in another answer to you about increasing maternal mortality in the US. We are 60th in maternal health outcomes worldwide. China and Canada do it better.

            Childbirth is the leading cause of death of young women ages 15-19 in low and middle income countries.
            http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs364/en/

            Illegal abortion and childbirth are the leading causes of maternal death worldwide.
            http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/gpr/14/2/gpr140224.html

          • fiona64

            your stupid

            Your stupid *what*? Please finish the sentence.

            Alternately, learn the difference between a possessive and a declarative.

          • Arekushieru

            No children in the UTERUS. If advocating abortion is worth eternal death, then death during pregnancy is NOT a minor inconvenience. OOPS.

          • cjvg

            I do not subscribe to your personal believes, so why should I be forced to base my personal medical needs on your religion? So next question!

          • Max

            Whether you describe or not ,you’ll never avoid TRUTH

          • Arekushieru

            Of course she won’t. She already KNOWS the truth.

          • cjvg

            Thank you!

          • cjvg

            Your truth is your own personal issue. You can belief what ever you want. However consequences and responsibilities from your belief are also yours to bear not mine. You do not have the moral legal or ethical right to force me to bear the consequences of your personal belief.

            Who made you god? Would you like to be forced to live according to the tenants of another persons beliefs? Have some decency and learn to respect others! We are not you and we are not obligated to live according to your dictates, especially since you DO NOT suffer the consequences! It is just so convenient when you can force others to pay the bill for what you want!

          • Max

            Consequences to be sure ! Just a little help from a friend .

          • cjvg

            Seriously you are quite inadequate at defending your OWN statements in a relevant or even simply coherent manner. I guess it is just easier to bully women on a sidewalk when they are distracted by medical needs and personal safety threats from you!

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You have your truth. Only God is The Truth.

          • Max

            Indeed only GOD is the truth.his truth teaches “thy shall not kill”

          • Arekushieru

            Sorry, God’s truth is thou shalt not murder and that abortion is neither killing nor murder.

          • Max

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou_shalt_not_kill
            You shall not murder (Hebrew לֹא תִּרְצָח lo tirṣaḥ) (sometimes translated as … The Hebrew Bible contains numerous prohibitions against unlawful killing, but …
            ‎Hebrew Bible – ‎Jewish interpretation – ‎New Testament view

          • Max

            Sugarcoat it all you want .

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Jehovah is a proabort. I am made in God’s image. Abortion is a sacrament.
            Hosea 13:16
            The word of the Lord … The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open.
            And then there is Mosaic law in which God told the Jews that abortion as a trial by ordeal for a woman suspected of adultery is kool. Proof being the aborted fetus.

          • Max

            Your confused .try to grasp the message .the whole message

          • Jennifer Starr

            Your confused what?

          • Arekushieru

            Nope, we grasped the message a long time. But, don’t worry, dearie, I’m sure you’ll catch on eventually to the fact that these passages are talking about forced abortion, which is anti-choice. Again, just not the anti-choice you like.

          • fiona64

            Can’t answer the question, can you, dumbass?

          • Arekushieru

            Yeah, I don’t know how killing a woman is saving their life. I think you’re VERY confused.

          • fiona64

            In other words, you are not pro-life at all. You don’t care if actual women die, as long as the pwecious baybee lives. Well, here’s a biological reality for you, dimbulb: dead women do not give birth to live infants.

          • Max

            Here’s a spiritual reality for you Fiona .”thou shall not kill”

          • Arekushieru

            No, it’s thou shalt not murder. Obviously abortion is not murder by even God;s law, if He does it repeatedly in the Bible. Also, if it were just thou shalt not kill, God disobeys His own commands many times. What good is a Father that cannot model the behaviour that He expects from His own children? Hmm? Seriously, learn2biblestudies.

            Finally, you are asking to keep abortion legal, then, otherwise you are killing fetuses AND women. Since women are much more worthy in the eyes of God than fetuses, that is an even bigger sin to Him.

          • fiona64

            Are you really going to cite the Bible? Because I will hurt your feelings in a big and mighty way.

            The Hebrew word used, ratsah is not “kill,” but “murder.” This is a significant difference. You can educate yourself here: http://people.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/Shokel/001102_ThouShaltNotMurder.html

            Second, Numbers 5:11-30 shows a woman being forced to consume an abortifacient because she is suspected of adultery.

            Finally, Hosea and both books of Kings are rife with pregnant women being ripped open,and infants’ heads being dashed against the rocks.

          • Max

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou_shalt_not_kill
            You shall not murder (Hebrew לֹא תִּרְצָח lo tirṣaḥ) (sometimes translated as You shall not kill (KJV) or Thou shalt not kill (LXX; οὐ φονεύσεις), is a moral …
            ‎Hebrew Bible – ‎Jewish interpretation – ‎New Testament view…….oh no ,you do not hurt my feelings and never will .your so sure of yourself huh? The Old Testament your referring to is God and only God who has power to give and take life .how he and only he sees fit in punishing for their sins . Or giving blessings as he sees fit .

          • fiona64

            Thank you for *proving my point.*

          • Max

            You wish

          • Max

            You wish . Too funny

          • Max

            Seems your having a conscience problem on this thread.

          • Max

            Aww come on back Fiona .its hard to look at truths .isn’t it?

          • fiona64

            You haven’t posted any truths, you lack-witted pox-closet.

          • Max

            Awwwwww.very fitting

          • fiona64

            It is indeed very fitting to refer to you as a lack-witted pox-closet.

          • Arekushieru

            HAH, University of Calgary!

            I knew there was something about the word that was actually used in the Ten Commandments that would change it from thou shalt not kill, to thou shalt not murder. But I couldn’t remember what it was. Thanks for pointing that out!

          • Jennifer Starr

            You get to have a say over any pregnancies you gestate inside your own body, Max. What you do not get to do is make that decision for others.

          • Max

            “Thou shall not kill ”

          • Jennifer Starr

            And?

          • Max

            Oh the horror ! Your figure will never be the same !

          • thedoorisajar

            I suggest you re-read the list.

            Are death and disability mere inconveniences Max?

          • Max

            You get the award tonight for THE most ridiculous Selfish loon ! I assume you’ve had an abortion with no children correct!

          • thedoorisajar

            Answer the question.

            Is death a minor inconvenience? yes or no/

          • Arekushieru

            I’ve NEVER had an abortion. Pro-fact for ya: More Pro-‘lifers’ have had abortions than I have. Because many of them have had at least ONE. My mom had an abortion, she also has two children (just like the MAJORITY of women who have had abortions, oops). She would not have have had my sibling if she had NOT had the abortion. It would have been physiologically IMPOSSIBLE. You are saying that we should regret my sibling’s existence. YOU are incredibly GREEDY (selfishness is not inherently good or bad, like greed is inherently bad, btw) to force others suffer so that you may live as YOU wish to live. Ridiculous, simply because you can’t read a list of common and EXPECTED serious medical conditions arising from pregnancy? WOW, how ridiculous does that make YOU?

          • Max

            You are 100% correct that more prolife people have had abortions . Why? Because they came to a point in their life that they realized the horror that they snuffed out the life of their own child and with deep remorse and regret and healing vow to fight this Holocaust!! Indeed .as far as your mothers abortion ? A lost sibling ! So sad

          • Arekushieru

            The entire point flew right over your fucking head, didn’t it?

            So, you begrudge the existence of my EXISTING sibling? Because, y’know, they would not BE here, if my mother had NOT had an abortion. Which means, essentially, that not only do YOU wish for THEIR death, but you also only accept existential angst for SOME fetuses. Oops.

            Comparing the Holocaust to abortion is racist. Especially considering that it is YOUR ilk that promotes policies that Hitler employed, NOT us. Slave-owners, forced birth like you. Hitler, forced birth like you. Taliban and other extremist sects of most major religions of the world, forced birth.

            So, if a child feels guilty for killing their mother during childbirth with them, obviously that means they have a reason to feel guilty. Because feeling guilty means you are actually responsible for committing a crime every time, everywhere, right? So, perhaps these women you say realized the ‘horror’ that they snuffed out the life of their own ‘child’ and with deep remorse and regret and healing vow to fight, is because of YOUR ilks attempts to shame, stigmatize, isolate, harass, browbeat, bully, STALK, THREATEN AND kill them. Not out of an actual sense that they committed a serious crime. Hmm? Oops.

          • Max

            Your oops thing is nauseating .no I begrudge your NoN existing sibling

          • Arekushieru

            Would you prefer I used ableist terms as your ilk does? You see, I’M not one who promotes racism, classism, ableism, misogyny and all the other host of horrible and nasty things you do on a daily basis. At least nowhere NEAR the extent and lengths to which you and your cronies will attempt to go. Oh, also, if you don’t like my usage of the word, there’s a simple solution to that: Just stop responding to me. Aw, that isn’t even a simple enough concept for ya?

            You see, I find your willingness to deny US, Western and all women globally of their constitutional and/or human rights to be EXTREMELY nauseating. But I don’t expect you to accommodate me. That would be expecting too much of you, after all.

            FINALLY, PLEASE demonstrate that you have even an OUNCE of reading comprehension??? In my family, you either begrudge my sibling and the abortion’s existence. OR you begrudge neither. Because you can only have ONE not BOTH. MEANING (and I’ll make it SIMPLE enough that HOPEFULLY even you will be able to understand), if the abortion had not occurred my existing sibling would not be here. AND that my existing sibling IS here because my mom had the abortion. OOPS. You’re welcome because you deserved it. Aw.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            The pukefest here is YOU. You probably should not have an abortion.

          • fiona64

            Your mere existence is nauseating. I begrudge your parents for screwing the night you were conceived.

          • Max

            Really ? Childish and baseless response per usual .

          • Max

            They will own their shame themselves in TIME.

          • catseye

            Shorter Max:
            “How very self-centered these women can be.
            They think of themselves instead of me.”

          • fiona64

            Shorter “Max”: I was too fucking stupid to understand the list.

          • thedoorisajar

            they always ‘read’ the list and then pretend as if stretchmarks are the ONLY thing listed

          • cjvg

            Pregnancy and childbirth kills, no doctor can or will guarantee you tat you will be alive at the end of it, not a single one!
            No doctor can, or will predict that your pregnancy will not harm you, no matter how healthy you are. ! It is not your place to decided how much risk a woman must take solely to satisfy your personal believes!

          • Max

            Oh yes the majority of women die from giving birth in 2014 .your a joke

          • Arekushieru

            So, Pro-‘Life’ of you. Existential angst against the death of a fetus but NO similar compassion for the women who die from pregnancy. YOU, ‘sir’, are a joke.

          • Max

            Miss please

          • Arekushieru

            Sorry, but I don’t believe that for a second. I can call you Miss because I don’t believe in misgendering people like your ilk does, so the best way to determine that is by doing what others request, UNLIKE your ilk, but it doesn’t mean I believe it.

          • Max

            Dies a man speak as I speak ? Really now ?

          • Arekushieru

            Tone is incredibly hard to tell on the computer, ignorant ass. Also, there is no one way a man or woman can speak. Finally, I have something called a non-verbal learning disorder, which makes it hard to understand non-verbal language, so tone is even MORE difficult for me to understand. You may thank me for your edumacation, now.

          • Max

            Thank you

          • fiona64

            No educated person speaks as you do, male or female.

          • fiona64

            It’s that moronic “Christine Smith” thing.

          • cjvg

            No they do not, however you can not tell me or any other woman if I will be alive after a pregnancy. Neither can or will a doctor, so what gives you the right to state I must take that risk!?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/maternal-deaths-in-childbirth-rise-in-the-us/2014/05/02/abf7df96-d229-11e3-9e25-188ebe1fa93b_story.html

            By Carol Morello
            Maternal deaths related to childbirth in the United States are nearly at the highest rate in a quarter century, and a woman giving birth in America is now more likely to die than a woman giving birth in China, according to a new study.

            The United States is one of just eight countries to see a rise in maternal mortality over the past decade, said researchers for the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington in a study published in The Lancet, a weekly medical journal. The others are Afghanistan, Greece, and several countries in Africa and Central America.

            The researchers estimated that 18.5 mothers died for every 100,000 births in the U.S. in 2013, a total of almost 800 deaths. That is more than double the maternal mortality rate in Saudi Arabia and Canada, and more than triple the rate in the United Kingdom.

            The study was the latest to underscore a steep rise in pregnancy-related deaths in the U.S. since at least 1987, when the mortality rate was 7.2 per 100,000 births. The U.S. experienced a sharp spike in 2009 that the Centers for Disease Control attributed to the H1N1 influenza pandemic. The rate has dipped slightly since then, said Nicholas Kassebaum, the lead physician in the University of Washington study, but it remains stubbornly high.

            The increase is in stark contrast to most other countries that have had notable decreases, including many in east Asia and Latin America, the report said. The United States now ranks 60 for maternal deaths on a list of 180 countries, down markedly from its rank of 22 in 1990. China, by contrast, is up to number 57.

            The reasons for the rise in the maternal deaths in the U.S. are not entirely clear, but several factors seem to be in play.

            One reason for the rise is an improvement in how maternal deaths are reported, though Kassebaum said the numbers are still likely underreported and mischaracterized in the codings included on death certificates.

            Equally significant is an increase in the number of pregnant women who have diseases that contribute to a higher-risk pregnancy, such as hypertension and diabetes, said Kassebaum. He said there also has been an increase in mothers whose pregnancies are riskier because of conditions like heart or neurological diseases who might have died in an earlier era but who now are surviving into adulthood.

            In the world as a whole, fully half the maternal deaths happen more than 24 hours after childbirth — up to a year later. It’s a little higher in the United States, 55 percent.

            Kassebaum said that is because of improved American techniques for treating conditions that cause maternal deaths during childbirth itself, such as obstructed labor and hemorraging. The Centers for Disease Control lists ardiovascular disease and infections as the conditions with the highest maternity mortality rates, and anesthesia complications as the lowest.

            Worldwide, the study estimated that 293,000 women died of pregnancy-related causes in 2013, down from 376,000 in 1990.

          • Arekushieru

            So, the fact that improved techniques treat more immediate complications may have lead to the increase in maternal mortality rates down the road? Either way, I have to laugh my ass of when these people say that pregnancy isn’t risky. Sad, sick people they are.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I so agree. But I would say ‘sad mean people.’

          • fiona64

            US maternal mortality rate has now *worsened* to #60 in the world. That means that countries like *Bulgaria* are better at keeping pregnant women alive than we are. http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/maternal-deaths-in-childbirth-rise-in-the-us/2014/05/02/abf7df96-d229-11e3-9e25-188ebe1fa93b_story.html

            Complications of gestation and delivery are the #3 cause of death among women world-wide. I’m sorry that you’re so fucking stupid, but none of that is my fault.

          • fiona64

            Pregnancy is not a state of wellness, you ignorant pox-closet.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Correct. I have a cesarean scar.
            The muscle tone of my belly will never be the same.
            I have to do lots of kegels to keep from pissing myself when I cough or laugh because I had 3 large babies.

          • thedoorisajar

            I hate how they dismiss c-sections. A c-section can permanently ruin the look of your midsection, and has a good chance of resulting in sepsis and flesh eating disease. It’s not something to be taken lightly.

          • Max

            Oh please!

          • eroteme

            Its quite risky.
            http://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/c-section/basics/risks/prc-20014571

            Or do you know more than the Mayo Clinic?

          • Max

            The door might be ajar but the LiGHTS ARE OUT! Good night dear

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          You want to force ‘immoral’ women who ‘abort for convenience’ to give birth. You don’t like children?

        • fiona64

          Yeah, it would be pretty fucking inconvenient for my family if I were to die gestating another pregnancy. So, should my tubal ligation fail, I’ll have an abortion so fast that your empty head will spin right off.

      • Max

        And because of the inhumanity of it all ,finally laws were established to abolish slavery. No on to the next inhumanity

        • eroteme

          You are pro gestational slavery. To you, women are mere reproductive objects

    • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

      Nope. A Bush appointee judge just declared such laws unconstitutional in Texas. Catch up.

    • fiona64

      You’re a funny little dimwit, I’ll give you that.