New Abortion Guidelines in Peru a Victory for Women and Girls, But More Work Ahead


In 2007, a 13-year-old Peruvian girl became pregnant as the result of being repeatedly raped by a man in her Lima neighborhood. Scared, ashamed, and desperate, she flung herself off a neighbor’s roof. Doctors examining the girl after the incident concluded that her spine needed to be realigned immediately, but they refused to operate because she was pregnant, despite the fact that therapeutic abortion—defined in Article 119 of the Peruvian penal code as the interruption of a pregnancy to save the life of the pregnant woman or to avoid serious and permanent damage to her health—had been legal in Peru since 1924. The young woman, known by her initials L.C., is a quadriplegic today.

Sadly, such stories are becoming more and more familiar to those of us who follow women’s health and rights issues around the world. When a woman or girl is denied access to abortion, she frequently suffers devastating consequences.

These cases are not just tragic; they are indefensible. Peru has more reported cases of rape and sexual violence than any other country in South America. Eight in ten of these victims are minors. No woman should be turned away from the care she needs, especially when she is raped or faces a pregnancy that threatens her life and her physical, mental, or social health.

Recently, the Peruvian government took a big step forward for L.C. and those like her. After 90 years of having the law on the books, Peru has finally issued national guidelines recognizing that women in in the country have the right to therapeutic abortion, and outlining the Peruvian government’s responsibility to secure this access.

This historic win comes after nearly a decade of pressure from many nongovernmental organizations and advocates, including PROMSEX, a leading Peruvian advocacy organization supported by Planned Parenthood Global. In 2009, the Center for Reproductive Rights and PROMSEX jointly brought L.C.’s case before the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW), challenging the government’s lack of accountability regarding the provision of legal, therapeutic abortion. CEDAW agreed, declaring that Peru had violated the human rights of L.C. by failing to ensure her access to safe and legal abortion services, and called for reform. Specifically, the committee declared that Peru must amend its law to allow women to obtain an abortion in cases of rape and sexual assault; establish a mechanism to ensure the availability of those abortion services; and guarantee access to abortion services when a woman’s life or health is in danger—circumstances under which abortion has been legal in Peru since 1924.

In addition to bringing the case before the UN, PROMSEX, with support from Planned Parenthood Global, has been working for years in Peru with medical professionals to develop their capacities and knowledge regarding sexual and reproductive health, and to ensure that the personal beliefs of individual health professionals do not impede women’s effective access to reproductive health-care services, including abortion and post-abortion care.

It is heartening to see such tireless work pay off, and for L.C. and the women of Peru to see a measure of justice. The new guidelines are a big step forward. They create an undeniable basis for expanding access to abortion services for Peruvian women. They provide clarity for both women and health-care providers, and get at the importance of taking on a broad interpretation of the right to health in the future, which would have greatly improved L.C.’s outcome.

Despite these gains, much work remains for advocates. The new guidelines include some unnecessary barriers to accessing safe abortion, such as requiring a review by a committee of three physicians. They also fail to address ongoing issues relating to confidentiality. Currently, Peruvian law dictates that health-care providers must report women for the alleged crime of abortion if they suspect one has been attempted. This policy leaves women afraid of going to health facilities, and consequently increases maternal injury and death—especially among poor women. Still, the guidelines show good faith and demonstrate the government’s ongoing commitment to ensure access to abortion and further women’s rights.

Advocates in Peru, across Latin America, and around the world will continue to work toward improved health outcomes for women and girls. The L.C.s of the world have been denied for too long. With this small victory in Peru in hand, we will together march forward to see justice realized for all women and girls.

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To schedule an interview with contact director of communications Rachel Perrone at rachel@rhrealitycheck.org.

  • fiona64

    And yet, this is the world about which the anti-choice fantasize. Ugh.

    • P. McCoy

      Yes but as in Belfast, they drool over the ‘consent’ given by a suicidal, hunger striking rape victim to a ‘doctor’ who barely saved a “bayyybee” by performing a casearian at the 25th week of pregnancy instead of the abortion she begged for. Now, the forced birthers coldly and crassly bray that the woman got what she wanted- she’s no longer pregnant and an innocent baby (their phrase, not mine) was not murdered. What loathsome cultists they are with a hatred of women.

      • fiona64

        You know they would not be so blase if it were themselves or a loved one in that state … but, as always with the anti-choice, “sacrifice” is what other people should be *forced* to do.

        • P. McCoy

          Thank you. You’re quite correct. It’s that old saying: abortion for me, but not for thee…

      • Shan

        “the forced birthers coldly and crassly bray that the woman got what she
        wanted- she’s no longer pregnant and an innocent baby (their phrase, not
        mine) was not murdered”

        For that, this woman was raped twice.

        • P. McCoy

          But you know a MALE forced birther in Free Republic blathered on about how the baby will now grow up in ‘ a loving home and grow up, giving the world a cure for cancer!’ If the rape victim had not been driven to madness due to the inability to obtain an abortion, she might have been able to discover a cure for cancer too! But in their eyes, she is nothing but a breeder whose worth is the ‘ innocent bayybee’ she refused to carry that, it, not her was all that was worth saving!

          • cjvg

            Would it not totally gall them if the baby was a girl? What now, she can not possibly have any worth either then

          • Cactus_Wren

            Oh but if it had been a girl they could invoke the “rights of unborn women”.

          • cjvg

            Oh yes, those same rights you lose the second your lungs draw their first breath

      • Donna L

        Crazy. Ok to kill bayyybeee big not okay to save its life from self destructive mother and give child shot at life. Twisted and sick are those who prefer murdering innocent child for convenience

        • conversate

          Pregnancy maims and kills. Its not a minor inconvenience.

          And clearly, you get off on torturing rape victims.

          • Donna L

            Never seen a baby w an AR22! Babies don’t kill- twisted minded adults kill.

          • conversate

            Speak English please.

          • Jennifer Starr

            You’re babbling.

          • fiona64

            You clearly don’t know diddly-squat about the risks attendant with pregnancy. ‘fess up; the children you allege to have are baby dolls, aren’t they?

          • Donna L

            What a ridiculous accusation!

          • conversate

            Prove me wrong with a citation.

          • fiona64

            Your words betray you.

        • Jennifer Starr

          Such sympathy and regard for a victim of a violent crime. Keep running your mouth, Donna. It’s people like you who remind me of why I no longer call myself ‘pro-life’.

          • Donna L

            Jennifer – stop twisting. You know the truth. Save both victims.

          • Jennifer Starr

            There is only one victim. The woman who was raped. The decision should be hers–and only hers.

          • fiona64

            There’s only one victim, you dumb cow: the woman who was raped.

          • lady_black

            I would not use my body to “save” the seed of a violent criminal. I would abort it so fast your ugly head would spin. I do not need your permission to rid myself of a parasite, and if I were raped, the only “victim” would be me. I am a rape survivor, fortunately it didn’t result in pregnancy. There is nothing you could say to change my mind.

          • Arekushieru

            How, you’ve erased the woman from the equation every chance you get!

        • fiona64

          English is not your first language, is it (I hope)?

        • P. McCoy

          A ‘shot at “life” ‘ ; well thank you for showing us all how forced birthers believe in the law of the jungle-better to sacrifice a woman’s life than terminate a pregnancy. The woman wanted an abortion for her survival not convenience, but even if she did it’s her body, that trumps the parasite. How loathsome and hateful those two countries are towards its women.

          .

          • Donna L

            Check out Gionna Molla. ” google is your friend”. :)
            Btw, the mother does not have two heads, four arms, four legs, and double all the body parts.
            If its Her body, and she “killed” it, then wouldn’t she be dead too?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Gianna made her choice and she made it freely. Please allow other women to make their choice as well.

          • fiona64

            If the fetus is a separate individual, it can just move out and get a job and a cute apartment.

          • Donna L

            I suppose you could when you were born? What an ignorant statement!
            Name calling and insults are your specialty.
            You reveal nothing of yourself but make it a point to berate anyone with whom you disagree…and only pure evil comes forth from Your heart. So sad.
            How many abortions have you had?

          • Jennifer Starr

            How is that insulting? If a fetus is truly separate it can be separated without any problem.

          • fiona64

            How many abortions have you had?

            How many times do you get your goddamned teeth knocked down your throat for asking questions that are none of your business?

            Save the existential angst for those who, like you, have not yet outgrown it.

            The point is that a fetus is NOT a separate individual. It is literally part and parcel of the pregnant woman, depleting her physical resources in order to build its own body. Pregnancy is risky for every woman; whether or not those risks will manifest cannot be predicted. You do NOT get to decide how much medical risk any woman other than yourself will take.

          • Arekushieru

            Nope the only one who spews pure evil is you. And given that you’ve come on here to say the exact same thing every other anti-choicer says, I think we know enough to ‘berate’ you and rightfully so. And where did she name-call and insult you in that post?

          • P. McCoy

            That second body is being made at the expense of the woman’s body just like a flea survives at the expense of the host body of a cat. Parasites should exist only if the host body wishes them to not the other way around. Gianna’s choice was her own; I would not interfere with it, just as the state should have let the rape victim have the abortion. As for hope and potential, your kind chooses non sentient beings over women, women your kind do not know and along with lies and obfuscation could care less about. As to the “how would you like it if you were aborted trap”, I would not have sentience and thus no grief over the matter. It will take time, but when an amendment to the constitution is made to prevent a theocratic take over of the United States, along with punishing forced birthers as Domestic Terrorists, the next step will be flagging countries that are anti abortion and anti LGBT as places to avoid traveling, expating to, studying and so forth, just as one did when apartheid was exposed and economically boycotted.

          • Donna L

            whose choice was it to have sex?? if a possible pregnancy isn’t in the picture, don’t have sex while fertile. Know how the body works. Pregnancy doesn’t happen all 30 days.

            “just like a flea survives at the expense of the host body of a cat. Parasites should exist only if the host body wishes them to not the other way around.”

            Again, using your funny analogy, the host has the choice to have sex or not… inviting in the fleas….maybe crabs and STDs too (which you can get all month long)

            Again…not talking about the extreme cases of rape. That’s wholly different.
            So intolerance is your choice? What other options than abortion do YOU support?? You haven’t mentioned a single one. Just being an extremist.

          • lady_black

            Pregnancy is not a punishment for having sex. All children should be wanted. Some pregnancies aren’t wanted. Too bad, so sad.

          • fiona64

            if a possible pregnancy isn’t in the picture, don’t have sex while fertile

            Just because no one wants to f*** you, don’t think the rest of us have to be celibate. I mean, if you want to be celibate, rock on. That’s *your* choice. I will save France.

          • P. McCoy

            If you had bothered to read what I said, I said that I supported the woman’s choice what ever it is. Tis your kind that is into forced birth and practices acts of terror to get their way. Why all this talk about choosing or not to have sex? In both articles we are discussing victims of rape; as for consensual sex involving not you, it’s none of your business . Besides dearie, a woman can get STD’s from her “bible totin’, Wednesday prayer grouping OR genuflecting ‘go to Sunday Mass or go straight to hell mortal sinning ” hubby. Your kind wants to control the sex lives of others instead of getting a meaningful life of your own! Sex shaming is SO passe!

          • Arekushieru

            Seriously, you need to stop punishing women for having the wrong genotype. It’s disgusting. Consent is ONGOING, btw. Requiring more responsibility from women than men because of selfsame genotype is also sexism and hypocrisy.

            You wouldn’t complain if the host body sought treatment for crabs and STDs, now WOULD you? Hypocrite.

            If you’re not talking about rape, you just proved yourself more anti-choice and anti-woman.

            We support CONTINUING OR terminating the pregnancy. You are so very ignorant, aren’t you? Intolerance is YOUR ‘choice’ (in quotation marks, because there only ever really was one option according to your ilk).

        • cjvg

          There is no baby until viability. There is an actual living breathing and suffering woman (barely more then a girl herself in this case) involved.. You are a cruel and inhuman “person” to deny this woman her humanity and approve of inflicting this needless and cruel torture on her!

          You make me sick with your hypocritical whining about the “needs” of potential live while deliberately and viciously ignoring the actual life that suffers because of how you and those like you love forcing the pain and suffering from YOUR convictions on others! Utterly disgusting, your own jesus will recognized you as one of the pharisees

        • conversate

          Do you believe that pro-choicers are baby killers?

        • Arekushieru

          Okay, wrong on ALL counts. Abortion is not murder, Pregnancy is not merely a ‘convenience’. A fetus is not a child. And lack of sapience does not equate to innocence. What about giving the ‘self-destructive’ WOMAN (not mother) a shot at life? Oh, yes, I see, if a woman suffers that’s NOTHING. Yet if one believes that a fetus can suffer, it must be prevented at ALL costs. Ugh, you people are SICK.

        • Ivy Mike

          So, it was just fine and dandy to strap that woman to a bed, forcibly feed and hydrate her, and perform an (unwilling) C-section on her (which is referred to as “mutilation” by civilized people), just to deliver a premature fetus?

          All this, after she was raped, starting the whole thing?

          You don’t see this as a massive violation of that woman’s human rights, dignity, and autonomy? You feel that this sort of thing should be the DEFAULT?!?

          You are certifiably insane. Such cruelty, such malice, and such obsession with potential (fetus) over actual (woman) is evidence of mental illness.

  • conversate

    I remember reading about LC.

    Utterly heartbreaking. And this is what Ireland would force on an innocent rape victim.

    • P. McCoy

      Northern Ireland, although part of the UK, has nearly the same draconian laws against abortion as does the Republic of Ireland proper. Also, this area is against Gay marriage and supports those businesses that discriminate against LGBT people based on “religious sensitivities”. I thought they were against “Rome” rule.

  • Ella Warnock

    Oh, sorry, this is some lame trolling. Come on, step up. You’ve got to give me something better to work with here. More histrionics. Maybe some exclamation points, too.

  • Jennifer Starr

    The life that matters is the woman who was actually raped. To carry or not carry a pregnancy should be her decision–not mine, not the government, not the church and certainly not yours.

    • Arekushieru

      Just wanted to let you know that I edited my comment, above.

  • Shan

    There’s no “ripping apart” if there’s a medical or early aspiration abortion involved.

    Don’t go to the histrionic “RIPPED APART:!!!111″ thing if you just hate all abortion ever all the time.

    • Cactus_Wren

      Reminds me of talk.abortion’s Ramon Kire, who liked to talk about a failure to implant as “an unborn baby dying of dehydration and starvation”.

      • conversate

        Omg I’ve heard that one before. I was told that “the baby can’t eat”. Heh

      • lady_black

        LOL.

    • Donna L

      well tell that to the young girl (like many others) who had a 12 week old fetus chopped up and left inside her. She would have died had it not been detected by the emergency room she had to go to 2 days later from excessive pain and bleeding.
      The ER did nothing…. they sent her back to her OB (who did not perform the initial surgery — PP did.) Then as a result of this second surgery the girl was withing inches of dying from blood loss. She was given ONE week to recover! she was only 18 with two young children at home…. she DID NOT want the abortion! It was “her only option” said the OB because of a hernia…. really? three other OBs I spoke with said NO way!
      Still a third surgery to remove blood clots ended up finding even MORE fetal remains. arms, legs…. and if not caught, she could have developed sepsis and died!! So the abortion nearly cost these children their mother!!
      Don’t give me you crap that abortion is safe!! It happens every day to women!
      What options would you offer other than abortion??? What are your “choices”. Stop hiding behind your myths and come out into the reality of the war on women. It’s nothing short of demonic!!
      Evil wants nothing more than to kill the future.
      This poor girl has to deal with the fact that she was lied to and coerced into an irreversible decision and wishes her child had a chance to live!
      It’s the pro-lifers who have come to her aid and supported her both spiritually, and physically It’s the love that she has been shown that will allow her to heal and mend her broken heart. BTW, we saved her 2nd child from abortion two years ago and she doesn’t regret choosing “Life”…her daughter brings her much joy. She was brave and will have a bright future with help.

      • Jennifer Starr

        third surgery to remove blood clots ended up finding even MORE fetal remains. arms, legs….

        What was she carrying, a litter? Actually, I’m calling bullshit on this whole story.

        • Donna L

          just really incompetent *doctors* They will be sued.

          • Jennifer Starr

            I think this is more of a flight of fancy than anything else. There are holes in this story of yours that you could drive a mack truck through.

      • Cactus_Wren

        And I should believe one word of this … why?

      • fiona64

        Citations needed. Thanks in advance.z

        Alternately, you can just admit that you made the whole asinine thing up.

      • Arekushieru

        Forced abortion is JUST as anti-choice as YOU. If forced abortion is demonic, then forced gestation is even MORE so, not less. Yes, one of these days you will come out into the reality of the war on women, but, apparently, it’s not today.

        More pregnant women die leaving EXISTING children motherless (and more likely that there are actual children present than not, considering that the MAJORITY of women who have abortions are married and have children already, JUST LIKE MY PRO-CHOICE MOTHER) than those who may die from an abortion.

        Google Gisella Perl. She SAVED Jewish women from being killed by their Pro-‘Life’ and Pro-Abortion captors, specifically Hitler, while the anti-choice cohort would have done nothing more than proselytize over these women’s dead bodies. Freaking SICK.

      • Jennifer Starr

        At twelve weeks a fetus is a little over two inches. There is no ‘chopping up’ required to remove it. And unless this woman was pregnant with multiples or this baby had more than four limbs (spider baby?) no one would find more arms and legs on a third surgery. And no, I don’t believe in an ER that would do nothing if someone is in danger of bleeding to death, or in an OB that would tell her that abortion was her only choice in the case of a hernia Because if the hernia you’re talking about is a fetal hernia, there are other things that can be done:

        http://www.fetalcare.org/congenital-diaphragmatic-hernia

        https://www.luriechildrens.org/en-us/care-services/conditions-treatments/fetal-diaphragmatic-hernia/Pages/index.aspx

        Additionally, this condition isn’t generally diagnosed until twenty weeks or so–I suppose it be detected earlier, but most of them seem to be detected later than twelve weeks.

        And lastly, you don’t seem to recall how many children this 18 year old had–in one sentence you say that she had ‘two children at home’–eighteen and having a third child? Okay. But then you go on to say that you saved her ‘second child’, a daughter, from abortion. Wouldn’t that be her third child?

        These are some of the reasons why I’m calling bullshit.

      • Shan

        Was that an early medication or aspiration abortion? No.

  • P. McCoy

    The sperm used to fertilize that egg was not innocent, no more than a knife’s blade or bullet entering her body was innocent. The ‘baby’ is guilty of sexual assult IF we were to hypothesize about non sentient entities which in reality carry no concept of innocence- it’s a parasite , creating its existence off of its host body.

    • Arekushieru

      I always say that WE’RE the ones that want to prevent a fetus from being punished because, if anti-choicers were to have their way, a fetus WOULD be considered sentient and there would be no way to avoid pronouncing a fetus as guilty at THAT stage.

  • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

    So if a ‘baby’ kills its Mother during pregnancy and/or birth it is guilty? What should be its punishment?
    Why is the fantasy or ripping ‘babies’ apart so common among you fetus freaks?

    • Donna L

      hmmm… how does the baby kill? is it not a complication of something with the mother? Do ALL pregnancies end in death of the mother? God, how did we survive these millions of years??? Pregnancy is the way nature regenerates (or not). If your mom didn’t regenerate, you would have no choice and no voice. So she chose life…are you sorry??
      “fantasy of ripping babies apart”…. YOU’RE sick. It’s the cruel fact..Or have you not heard about the fetuses (developmental stage of a human) being flushed down a toilet or worse, being put in the kitchen sink disposal as done by Eric Harrah in DE.
      Get with it….

      • Jennifer Starr

        If your mom didn’t regenerate, you would have no choice and no voice. So she chose life…are you sorry??

        I used to think that was a brilliant argument when I was around 12. Then I grew up.

        • Donna L

          ha…. no answer….cant because you would convict yourself.

          • Jennifer Starr

            And what would I convict myself of?

          • fiona64

            Not having asinine existential angst, I guess …

      • lady_black

        Uh, NO. Medical waste isn’t put down a garbage disposal.

        • Donna L

          Lady…. look it up online…. Eric Harrah was a sick bastard.

      • fiona64

        You have a very bizarre fantasy life. I suggest that you obtain competent psychiatric help.

        • Donna L

          hahahaha… ok… and you don’t?

          • fiona64

            I’m not the one posting big fat lies and calling them “true stories,” dearie.

      • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

        Word salad is a symptom of mental illness.

      • Arekushieru

        A fetus DIRECTS the process of CONCEPTION which LEADS to PREGNANCY. If it’s simply a complication of something with the WOMAN, then why doesn’t it affect her BEFORE she’s pregnant? A pregnancy occurs whether or NOT a fetus develops typically as a result. If not, a woman would no longer be pregnant Oops. See molar pregnancies and animals, such as certain types of bears, where a pregnancy doesn’t start until LONG after the embryo has developed in utero. Oops. Not a baby. Pregnancy is the third leading cause of death worldwide and, since a fetus draws resources from the woman’s body, including nutrients from her blood, AND suppresses her immune system, how is it NOT considered killing by the fetus? The only reason that not every woman has died from pregnancy is because the life-threatening risk doesn’t always materialize. Which makes it WORSE, because even the healthiest pregnancies can turn on a dime at a moment’s notice, making it too late to save EITHER fetus or woman. OOPS.

        No, YOU’RE the ones with fantasies of ripping babies apart, since you so want to claim that that is what happens in abortion, when it ISN’T even NEAR to describing what happens in an abortion.

        My MOM chose life, BECAUSE she was Pro-Choice. If she was Pro-‘Life’ she would have been FORCED to gestate the pregnancy and fetus. I’m happy she HAD a choice. I would NOT have been happy if she had been FORCED to have me. THAT’S the real EFFING difference, like I’ve SAID, over and OVER.

      • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

        I am asking you.

        If a fetus is ‘innocent,’ then there must be occasions when it is ‘guilty’ as well. If the pregnancy killed the Mother, the fetus is at a fault. No fetus = no death. I mean who else we going to blame? God? If a fetus cannot be guilty, then it cannot be innocent either.

        My Mother had an abortion when it was illegal. We could have lost her. Stop using my Mother to slutshame women you will never even know.

        You would not know a fact if you were in fact forest and a fact sprung out and bit you. You are one of the most hysterical and most dumb fetus freaks who has ever posted here.

  • Arekushieru

    You DO realize that OB/Gyns are the ones who perform abortions, right? If these doctors are not actually doctors, then you should forget about going to gynecologists and obstetricians, when you’re pregnant or delivering. Oops.

    No, we simply care MORE about the woman than the fetus. *You* only care about the fetus. The woman, however? Not one damn given.

  • fiona64

    Embryos and fetii are incapable of either guilt or innocence. They are non-conscious and thus have no conscience.

    Of what is the pregnant woman *guilty,* if the fetus is “innocent”?

    And you’re goddamned right I care about the woman over the embryo; the born, sapient, sentient person will always trump that which is none of those things.

  • P. McCoy

    A fetus is as ‘human’ as a cancer cell. Are you gung ho over that Polish doctor that refused to do an abortion on a horribly deformed fetus? They forced a caesarian and the deformed boy, eye hanging out of a socket, half of a face etc; was produced. Poliah law does not allow abortion on handicapped ‘children’. Only these cultists would call a deformed fetus a handicapped “child”! Now,your friends at Catholic Answer forums they said: well the baby lived long enough to be baptized and got ‘love’ instead of being sliced and dumped into a trash can! No pity for the mother that has to relive seeing the monstrosity every DAY for the rest of her life! Fortunately, the Doctor has been fired and being sued on several grounds including malpractice and breech of contract. Life and death on medical decisions should not be made by religious brainwashed fanatics; we need laws tha exclude such people from entering the ob/gyn and the pharmaceutical field- dispensing medicines. Freedom of religion should NOT include the right to withdraw medical treatment because your conscience does not like it or you have been brainwashed into thinking ‘god’ told you not to do it.Instead, do us all a favor and get OUT of messing up women in crisises lives!

  • Donna L

    Jane Doe. Heart beats are seen as early as 3 weeks. You are severely misinformed.
    You started out the same as any baby–are you saying when you were still developing arms and legs that you were not human? What were you and when did that change?

    • fiona64

      Heart beats are seen as early as 3 weeks.

      Cardiac cells beat in petri dishes. Are you now going to pretend that a petri dish is a person?

      Your imbecilic “talking points” were old before you got here, m’dear.

      • conversate

        So I can’t help but notice that Donna L is from LieShitNews

        She has come to preach to us about the godly goodliness of pregnancy

        • fiona64

          LieSiteSpews? Quelle surprise.

          No wonder her talking points are so stupid.

          • thedoorisajar

            Yeah I’ve basically avoided her because she’s a flaming fuckwit.

    • Arekushieru

      Whether one is human or not is irrelevant.

      • Donna L

        That’s just what the Nazis said…and Margaret Sanger…that certain “humans” were not human at all and were just weeds in a garden to be cast out.
        So you appear to be in agreement with two of the biggest eugenicists that ever lived. That’s the exact thinking that brings down countries and is bringing down this beloved country. No life, no future, no economy either.
        But eventually all those who are for abortion and murder, will kill themselves off and wont repopulate. End of problem.

        • thedoorisajar

          What is the difference between a zygote and a 30 year old Jewish person?

          Can you tell us?

        • Arekushieru

          Seriously, can you NOT read? My MOTHER is Pro-CHOICE, BECAUSE SHE CHOSE TO HAVE ME AND MY SIBLING (I apologize to my fellow posters for the all caps but this person is SO dense, I’m not sure if she will get it any other way). If we are going to kill ourselves off and not repopulate, why is it that Pro-Choice women LIKE MY MOTHER have more children than abortions? The ones for murder are you. Not Pro-Choice.

          Btw, you seriously DO have a reading problem. I said NOTHING about fetuses being human or not. All I SAID was that whether or NOT one is human was IRRELEVANT. That MEANS, whether or not a WOMAN is HUMAN is irrelevant to determining if she has the right to bodily autonomy, AS WELL.

          The ones that typically define who is human and who is not are forced birthers like yourself. Hitler was anti-choice, JUST LIKE YOU. For forced abortions for Jewish women and forced gestation for German women. Slave-owners were FORCED BIRTH JUST LIKE YOU.

          Margaret Sanger ABHORRED Hitler. She was also ANTI-ABORTION, unlike you. Her mother was killed by seventeen constant pregnancies. She wanted to ensure that no woman would ever have to go through what her mother did, so made contraception widely available to NOT ONLY upper-class white women, but poor black women, AS WELL.

          Margaret Sanger was not a full eugenicist like your idol Hitler. She did not forcibly sterilize black people, nor did she mandate breeding programs for white people. Also, since the United States was FOUNDED by eugenicists I presume you are a eugenicist, as well, since, of course, mere association with a eugenicist makes you one. Since I’m Canadian, I am not a eugenicist by THAT rationale.

          Funnily enough, abortion rates are LOWER, here, than in the United States. Since abortion is decriminalized, here, gee, I wonder why that IS????

          No, your ilk prefers to murder abortion providers, who also happen to be OB/Gyns, y’know, the people who assist with pregnancy, childbirth and delivery, kill women by keeping them constantly pregnant and under the patriarchy’s thumb, deny poor mothers and families the right to life by accessing affordable health care, etc…. They also tend to do away with the economy, preferring, instead of jobs, to focus on restricting access to abortion.

          When we finally stretch this planet’s resources to the limit, those who supported unsustainable population growth will be the first to go. Because they will be living in the most dense pockets of civilization. Too bad so sad.

        • fiona64

          That’s just what the Nazis said…and Margaret Sanger

          Citations needed.

  • Donna L

    You do not see hope and potential in humans? We all started the same – who are you to determine the value of another human?
    No matter how a child is conceived, each child has the power within to change the world. Why do you only see negative and no hope?
    Have you aborted too? Has society failed you? I’m sorry you feel so hopeless

    • Jennifer Starr

      The woman who is pregnant is just invisible to you, isn’t she? Because you don’t appear to give a damn about her feelings regarding her pregnancy. And unless you can carry that pregnancy for her, it shouldn’t be up to you to decide what to do with it.

    • fiona64

      So much existential angst.

      You are amazingly gifted at erasing *women* from your picture. I know, I know … “that baby could have cured cancer,” right? So could some woman who died in childbirth.

    • Arekushieru

      You do not see the hope and potential that could have been in the suicidal woman? We all started the same – who are you to determine the value of another human? Why do you only see an incubator and meat around the uterus instead of hope? Like I have told many others on this board, more anti-choicers have had abortions than I’ve had, because I’ve had exactly zero.

  • Ivy Mike

    You are so full of shit it’s coming out your ears.

    All you are is a self-important narcissist with a huge ego and a holier-than-thou complex that would choke an elephant.

    Given the multitude of lies and made-up stories you’ve spewed here (and we’ve all noticed that, when asked for citations or evidence, you quickly change the subject), I’m simply going to relegate your fairy tale above, with its obvious placement of yourself as the “heroine”, as yet more fiction.

  • Arekushieru

    I have yet to hear ONE ‘lifer’ offer anything other than death for women.

    Pro-Choicers, as YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD, over and OVER, DO offer supports to women (sperm donors should only be involved in the decision to abort IF the woman asks them to be, anything else is JUST misogyny) and STABLE funding through organizations like PLANNED PARENTHOOD and social programs in order for them to keep their pregnancies when they want them (but a woman seeking an abortion has already made up her mind and goes to Planned Parenthood FOR THAT REASON) rather than CHARITIES and Pro-‘Life’ political hacks who deny funding to programs such as TANF, WIC and SNAP.

    Nope, I have seen Fiona et al support CHOICE, To KEEP a pregnancy OR to terminate one. YOU have only one option for the woman, death

    More misogyny. A man’s hurt feefees do not enter into the equation when making a decision on a pregnancy UNLESS the woman WANTS him involved.

    Did these mothers regret their actions because they FORCED their daughters to have an abortion? If so, then they are just as anti-choice as YOU. Or did they regret what decision they made WITH their daughters because they were provided falsified information on pregnancy and abortion and stigmatized, shamed and harassed until they agreed with you?

    Again, what were these people’s lives like before you walked up to them and harassed, stigmatized and shamed them?

    So, this guy wearing the tattoo was just as anti-choice as YOU.

    This guy whose ‘life’ was spared, sounds like a disgusting example of a human being. Because he would NOT be ashamed to force his mother, as the rape victim currently in the headlines was forced to do, to make his mother gestate him against her will, because HIS (the all-important MALES) life counts for more than his own mother’s. SICK. Also, if the woman was unable to seek an abortion because of abortion’s illegal status, she was probably poor, because women with means and access can still seek an abortion even when it is illegal. So, not only a misogynist but a classist. So typical.

    Did she ‘repent’ because of anti-choice harassment and stigmatization and shame? Most likely.

    I have learned compassion from fellow Pro-Choice women and from hearing stories from people on websites such as 1in3, IamDrTiller and others. I have also learned compassion from reading stories from people who regret continuing their pregnancies and relinquishing children for adoption.

    You cannot hate what one is doing and not hate the person. Just like you cannot hate one for their homosexual behaviour and not hate them as a person.

    Do not publicly pray for people, otherwise you are a sinner.

    FETUSES cannot feel or think therefore cannot ‘love’ anything. If the afterlife is true, then no one ages there. Fetuses will remain the same age. But, I thought only humans with souls went there? And, yet, your BIBLE states that a fetus does not have a soul until first breath. Oops? One day YOU will stand before the Lord and He will show YOU the ACTUAL women and love you snuffed out.

    Again, “some things aren’t true whether you believe them or not”.

  • fiona64

    .because I have yet to hear ONE “choicer” advocate for ANYTHING other than death.

    And I call you out as a goddamned liar. I, and several others, have said the same thing to you: I support a woman’s right to use contraception or not, gestate a pregnancy or not, place a child for adoption or rear it alone or with the partner of her choice. Do those words look familiar to you, you dumb bint? They should, because I typed them directly to you.

    Perhaps this will ring a bell, since I said it already: I think Michelle Duggar is crazy, but I’m not out there trying to take away her right to breed until her uterus prolapses. It’s *her* choice.

    Though Fiona and others may not believe me when I say this (and that’s their choice) I am out at the clinic weekly offering alternatives and reaching out.

    Is that what you call it when you yell “Baby murderer” at women who are going in to get a pap smear? “Reaching out and offering alternatives”? You and the rest of your so-called “sidewalk counselors” make me want to vomit.

  • Jennifer Starr

    I am out at the clinic weekly offering alternatives and reaching out.

    So you’re a sidewalk stalker. Why am I not surprised?