CPAC Co-Chair Carly Fiorina: Focusing on Reproductive Rights Is an ‘Insult’ to Women


Read more of our coverage on the 2014 Conservative Political Action Conference here.

Republicans are not waging a war on women “just because” they want to restrict access to abortion and birth control, and focusing on such issues is an “insult” to women, said Carly Fiorina, co-chair of the 2014 Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) and chair of the American Conservative Union Foundation, in her remarks to CPAC on Saturday.

Fiorina, after calling herself “a proud pro-life woman,” said, “I accept and respect that not all women agree with me. … What I am not prepared to accept is that we are waging a war on women, just because we know that abortion at five months is inhumane to both mother and child.”

At both the state and national levels, conservative legislators are pushing for bans on abortion after 20 weeks’ gestation because of medically discredited claims that fetuses can feel pain by then. Only about 1 percent of all abortions happen after 20 weeks, and many of those are under tragic circumstances, such as when a complication is detected late in a wanted pregnancy. Such laws threaten to make pregnant women criminals and are considered a strategy to end access to safe, legal abortion care in the United States by overturning Roe v. Wade.

“We are not waging a war on women simply because we believe there is no good reason for birth control to be free,” Fiorina continued, to tepid applause. While the Affordable Care Act mandates that birth control be available to women without a copay, that doesn’t mean “free”—it’s a benefit included in insurance plans for which women pay premiums.

Fiorina further claimed that unlike Democrats, Republicans don’t “insult” women by “thinking all they are about is reproductive rights.”

“All issues are women’s issues,” Fiorina said. “We are half of this great nation.” The CPAC crowd rewarded that line with enthusiastic applause and a standing ovation from some attendees.

Fiorina’s use of the word “insult” echoed controversial statements made by former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee (R), another CPAC featured speaker, who said in January, “If the Democrats want to insult the women of America by making them believe that they are helpless without Uncle Sugar coming in and providing for them a prescription each month for birth control because they cannot control their libido or their reproductive system without the help of the government, then so be it.”

Fiorina, who was considered one of the most powerful women in nation until being forced out, in 2005, as Hewlett-Packard’s CEO, also said that the poor do not lack talent or ambition, merely “tools and opportunities.” She implied that Democratic policies are also insulting to poor women because “it is liberals who believe some know better than others what is good for you.”

Many speakers at CPAC this week have championed the need for greater “opportunity” or “jobs” for the poor, but few have offered specific ideas for achieving those goals other than the lower taxes and less government regulation that they claim will boost the overall economy.

While anti-choice views have certainly been expressed on the main stage of the nation’s largest conservative gathering, they haven’t been a major theme. Nor have women in general; most of the conference’s relatively few featured female speakers took the stage on Saturday, which is both International Women’s Day and the most sparsely attended day of the conference.

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  • L-dan

    Thanks for covering this. I can only imagine the blood-pressure raising experience of attending CPAC.

    If it’s an insult to focus on these issues, yet the Republicans are the ones who keep putting forward abortion bill after abortion bill, who’s being insulting?

    When you claim that the ACA offers free birth control, rather than noting that it makes sure it’s a provided benefit within the health insurance a woman is paying for (or working for), who’s being insulting?

    When you claim that it’s inhumane to allow women carrying doomed fetuses the choice of whether or not to continue risking their health and lives to carry them to term, who’s being insulting?

    Apparently someone thinks women are too stupid to see through this shit, and that we aren’t supposed to feel insulted about that either.

    • five_by_five

      Apparently you think some of us are too stupid to realize that the vast majority of abortions are not done because a woman is carrying a “doomed fetus.”

      But rather it is done for convenience. Or, like your abortion, for irresponsibility.

      • L-dan

        Aww, another trolling reading comprehension fail. She was specifically talking about abortion at 5 months there when claiming abortion is inhumane. At that point, the majority of abortions are not done for your definition of convenience. Folks like you are willing to torture those carrying pregnancies that have gone wrong just so you can deny abortions to those that fit your ‘convenience’ narrative.

        Additionally, I’ve been managing my fertility for probably longer than you’ve been alive, kiddo. You keep wanting to characterize it as irresponsiblity when it was nothing of the sort. But hey, it lets you feel like you’re righteous in your actions, so I can see clinging to the delusion.

        • five_by_five

          I have no problem allowing abortions after 20 weeks – or any time for that matter – when it is due to the health of the mother and /or fetus.

          However, “mommy doesn’t want to be inconvenienced by a baby” is not a good reason for an abortion after this time. At least in my book. And in many people’s minds — if you look at the most recent polls.

          You’ve been “managing” your fertility by not taking your birth control medication the way it was prescribed – as you admitted to. So, please, tell us how using your BC meds inappropriately is being responsible.

          • King Rat

            ansuz


            2 days ago

            I’m still waiting for an answer to my question:

            Are you saying that I have no right to label something that’s in my
            body when I don’t want it to be an ‘alien invader’, or are you saying
            that regardless of how I feel about it, having sex means I have to allow the zef to use my body?

            Still waiting for you to answer ansuz’ question!

          • goatini

            Convenience: The state of being able to proceed with something with little effort or difficulty

            Obviously this asshat has no idea what the word means

          • King Rat

            However, “mommy doesn’t want to be inconvenienced by a baby” is not a good reason for an abortion after this time.

            Pregnancy and health:

            “That means each year in the U.S., about 700 women die of pregnancy-related complications and 52,000 experience emergencies such as acute renal failure, shock, respiratory
            distress, aneurysms and heart surgery. An additional 34,000 barely avoid death.”

            Data modeling suggesting 21/100,000 US maternal mortality rate

            In 2004/2005, 1.7 million women per year suffered adverse health effects

            http://search.worldbank.org/data?qterm=us%20maternal%20mortality%20rate&language=EN

            http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/campaigns/demand-dignity/maternal-health-is-a-human-right/maternal-health-in-the-us

            http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/why-are-so-many-u-s-women-dying-during-childbirth/article_dd916b4b-38f0-5bae-ba42-ddee636e4cf4.html

            http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/dec/10/torn-apart-by-childbirth

            http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-buzz/opera-singer-suing-hospital-episiotomy-left-her-severe-162302400.html

            Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:

            exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
            altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
            nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
            heartburn and indigestion
            constipation
            weight gain
            dizziness and light-headedness
            bloating, swelling, fluid retention
            hemmorhoids
            abdominal cramps
            yeast infections
            congested, bloody nose
            acne and mild skin disorders
            skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
            mild to severe backache and strain
            increased headaches
            difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
            increased urination and incontinence
            bleeding gums
            pica
            breast pain and discharge
            swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint pain
            difficulty sitting, standing in later pregnancy
            inability to take regular medications
            shortness of breath
            higher blood pressure
            hair loss
            tendency to anemia
            curtailment of ability to participate in some sports and activities
            infection including from serious and potentially fatal disease
            (pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
            extreme pain on delivery
            hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
            continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section — major surgery — is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)

            Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:

            stretch marks (worse in younger women)
            loose skin
            permanent weight gain or redistribution
            abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
            pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life — aka prolapsed utuerus, the malady sometimes badly fixed by the transvaginal mesh)
            changes to breasts
            varicose veins
            scarring from episiotomy or c-section
            other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
            increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
            loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)
            higher lifetime risk of developing Altzheimer’s
            newer research indicates microchimeric cells, other bi-directional exchanges of DNA, chromosomes, and other bodily material between fetus and mother (including with “unrelated” gestational surrogates)

            Occasional complications and side effects:

            complications of episiotomy
            spousal/partner abuse
            hyperemesis gravidarum
            temporary and permanent injury to back
            severe scarring requiring later surgery
            (especially after additional pregnancies)
            dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses — 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
            pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 – 10% of pregnancies)
            eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
            gestational diabetes
            placenta previa
            anemia (which can be life-threatening)
            thrombocytopenic purpura
            severe cramping
            embolism (blood clots)
            medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
            diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
            mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
            serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
            hormonal imbalance
            ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
            broken bones (ribcage, “tail bone”)
            hemorrhage and
            numerous other complications of delivery
            refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
            aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
            severe post-partum depression and psychosis
            research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including “egg harvesting” from infertile women and donors
            research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
            research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease

            Less common (but serious) complications:

            peripartum cardiomyopathy
            cardiopulmonary arrest
            magnesium toxicity
            severe hypoxemia/acidosis
            massive embolism
            increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
            molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease
            (like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
            malignant arrhythmia
            circulatory collapse
            placental abruption
            obstetric fistula

            More permanent side effects:

            future infertility
            permanent disability
            death.

          • five_by_five

            So you don’t want to get pregnant?

            Cool. Use birth control dummy.

          • Shan

            “Use birth control dummy.”

            Name-calling is another flag-worthy offense.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Already flagged him.

          • Shan

            K. And please keep in mind that flagging antis for name-calling but NOT flagging everyone else for it creates some actual real cognitive dissonance I’m not prepared to continue experiencing.

          • five_by_five

            Hey, I actually agree.

            When I first started posting on this site, I tried to be civil. I didn’t begin name calling until AFTER HeilMary1 and PlumDumpling, etc. started to call me “Mother Killer” or “stupid” etc.

            When I asked them to stop, the usual response was “aww poor guy [I'm a gal] got his feelings hurt.”

            So, I apologize for being immature. I just feel like I’m not the one who started this.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            But Mommy, Johnny does it too-oo.

            I did not flag you for this post. It is not one of your over the top abusive posts.

            Zero tolerance for you, BabyCakes.
            Use the word “murderer” and it is a flag every time. No one here is a murderer.

          • five_by_five

            If you support the abortion of near or post-viability fetuses, you are a murder-supporter in my book.

            And I’m not the only one who feels this way. That’s why abortion laws are changing as viability changes. We’re not cool with elective abortions of viable fetuses. Not ever.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Flagged. No one here supports murder. No one here is a murderer. I may have to put up with this abusive crap on politico etc. I do not have to put up with it HERE.

          • five_by_five

            Well, you’re going to have to put up with it as people like me continue to fight for 24-week (and eventually 20 week) federal abortions bans.

            The 2003 Partial Birth Abortion Act was a step in the right direction.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            There already is a ban on 24 week abortions and has been for years. No one wants a 24 week abortion. 24 week abortions are tragedies.

            Folks, this is an example of what I am talking about. There is no excuse for this abuse. It has been here long enough NOT TO SAY such things to this decent kind group of intelligent women. We have explained the need for late term abortions ad infinitum.

            Flagged.

          • King Rat

            The 2003 Partial Birth Abortion Act was a step in the right direction.

            The PBA ban hasn’t changed a thing because doctors now simply dismember the fetus inside the woman before taking it out.

            And 20 week is not viable.

          • five_by_five

            ” because doctors now simply dismember the fetus inside the woman before taking it out.”

            You really think that’s better? How about not having abortions after viability?

          • King Rat

            You lose.

          • Ramanusia

            He loses a lot, doesn’t he?

          • lady_black

            You must have thought it was better, and apparently so did the Supreme Court. I thought the intact D&E was a better and safer procedure. You know, you haven’t defined “after viability” but that is definitely NOT 20 weeks and never will be. And sometimes it’s never. So how about you mind your own business? Another woman’s medical issues are none of your business. You aren’t a doctor. Stick to what you know, mkay?

          • Ramanusia

            Actually, for those that value life, dismembering the fetus that has no chance at life, to save the life of the woman whose life is in imminent danger is very much better.

            How about not talking about things you don’t know anything about? How about accepting that women are living creatures whose lives are worth something as well?

          • Shan

            “The PBA ban hasn’t changed a thing because doctors now simply dismember the fetus inside the woman before taking it out.”

            I know, right? It’s so much easier to stick the Ginsu up there, whizz it around, and then hose out the liquid gore.

          • Ramanusia

            It’s actually made it more difficult for women and their doctors since in an emergent situation you can’t wait around for all that.

          • goatini

            There is no such procedure as an, ahem, “partial birth abortion”, o lying troll supporter of gestational slavery, and supporter of the stripping away of the civil, human and Constitutional rights of female US citizens.

          • five_by_five

            Great. Then you should have no objection to the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003, so it’s not a procedure – according to you.

          • goatini

            A non-existent procedure, which was falsely defined by vicious misogynist gestational slavers, should have NO legislation whatsoever.

            Still think 5×5 is Roeder. Because s/h/it is just that stupid and venal, with a lot of free time on s/h/it’s bloody hands to attack the civil, human and Constitutional rights of US citizens to the protections of the guarantees of the Due Process clause of the 14th Amendment.

          • Ramanusia

            According to the entire body of medicine. “Partial birth” is something that two propagandists made up because people like you who don’t understand words and are allergic to facts can (poorly) disguise their misogynistic pro-death stances while pretending to care about fetuses.

            No such procedure exists in the annals of medicine, nor in any OB/GYN textbook. It’s not a procedure at all according to doctors, it’s a thing made up by a lawyer, an anti-choicer and a congressman, for it’s lurid shock value. They knew their illiterate, idiotic, overly emotional, fact-averse followers quite well.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Not.
            It made certain types of abortions much more dangerous for the Mother. On the rare occasion the D&X was used, it was used to preserve the Mothers fertility even as she lost her child.

            Now that it has been criminalized, the gyno has to dismember the fetus in the womb, a much more dangerous procedure than D&X for both the Mother’s life and her fertility.

            Congratulations, Ghoul. You forcedbirthers sure are helpful.

          • expect_resistance

            Grow up. HeilMary and Plum Dumpling are NOT being abuse! You are!

          • five_by_five

            You’re right. I guess when they call people “mother killer” and “pedophile lover” they aren’t being abusive.

            “Cognitive dissonance” was the term Shan used. I think you should look it up. –I’m sorry, was that last part too abusive?

          • goatini

            You DID start it by coming to a reproductive justice blog and posting hate speech against the civil, human and Constitutional rights of female US citizens. We do not tolerate such hate speech here, troll.

          • expect_resistance

            Well said!

          • HeilMary1

            5×5 started it by refusing to acknowledge that ALL pregnancies are deadly, therefore optional, and then insulted everyone here for believing in women’s right to self-defending abortions.

          • King Rat

            You’re a dishonest dumbfuck. If you were actually interested in honest intellectual debate you would answer difficult questions that are put to you.

            Your complete and utter inability to debate honestly is more offense than referring to you as a halfwit imbecile.

            Now, why won’t you answer ansuz’ question?

          • five_by_five

            You forgot to sign out of your ansuz sockpuppet account.

          • King Rat

            Now, why won’t you answer ansuz’ question?

            And no, lame retorts such as the above don’t fool anyone, dumbfuck

          • five_by_five

            No.

            I don’t answer people who call me a “dumbfuck.”

          • King Rat

            1) you never did answer my questions before I called you a dumbfuck

            2) ansuz never called you a dumbfuck

            3) refusing to answer questions because of ‘hurt feelings’ just goes to prove that you are intellectually banrupt and do not have a leg to stand on

            Good job.

            Anyone who has to resort to ‘you called me a name so I will continue to refuse to answer a question that I keep refusing to answer’ is not at all interested in *real* debate, and has already lost.

          • five_by_five

            ansuz, sign into your other account and I’ll reply to you.

          • HeilMary1

            Ramen!

          • ansuz

            ‘Dumbfuck’ is not one of my favoured insults.

          • ansuz

            …the fuck?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Civil? When were you ever civil?

          • fiona64

            I know, right? Running in here and calling women murderers while sitting in his mommy’s basement (if it’s female, I’m the Queen of Sheba) is oh so civil.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You have always been a much kinder person than me, Shan.
            Here is how I look at it. I am prepared to tolerate a certain amount of name calling. It is just human.
            What we are dealing with in 5×5 is a constant barrage of abuse of all kinds, including name calling.
            So I have instituted zero tolerance where 5×5 is concerned. It is either that or leave and I would miss you all.

          • Shan

            “So I have instituted zero tolerance where 5×5 is concerned. It is either that or leave and I would miss you all.”

            So just ignore 5×5. You don’t have to engage, you can just ignore it. Because I’m sure you don’t mean to say that you intend to leave off posting here if the rest of us don’t stop engaging 5×5.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Nope. I did mean it. Then I gave some thought to it and decided I would be cutting off my nose to spite my face. I like it here.

            Oh I am going to engage. I might just get flagged a few times myself. Bastid already flagged me once.

            Zero tolerance for 5×5. And I might give Joey a big fat virtual kiss.

          • Shan

            “I like it here.”

            Cool beenz.

          • expect_resistance

            I’m glad you are here. Sorry things got off to a rough start.

          • expect_resistance

            So happy you are staying here. Big hugs!!!

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Thank you. I lose my temper and I act like an ass sometimes.

          • Shan

            “I lose my temper and I act like an ass sometimes.”

            So does 5×5 and peoples like them. Be better then them allz for our sakes. Plz.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Good of you to ask. I am not better than them.

            In fact, I am crippled where emotional control is concerned. I am bipolar.

            If my behavior does not meet your standards, I can go. I have been banned from lifesitenews, dkos, raw story, national catholic reporter, and one other I cannot remember. Will not be a new experience.

            Keep 5×5. Laughing.

          • HeilMary1

            Trolls and concern trolls have gotten angry me banned from many places too.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            A troll just got this REMOVED!
            Can you find anythling offensive in it?
            Rolling Stone (the worms) have a censorship system that puts you in moderation for the word :”penis” in an article about birth control.
            And then, of course, you never get out of moderation.
            ………
            Since the primary motive of the Evil is disguise, one of the places the evil are most likely to be found is within the church. What better way to conceal one’s evil from oneself and others than to be a deacon or some other highly visible form of Christian within our culture? In India I would suppose the Evil would demonstrate a similar tendency to be “good” Hindus or
            “good” Muslims. I do not mean to imply that the Evil are anything other than a small minority among the religious or that the religious motives of most people are in any way spurious. I mean only that Evil People tend to gravitate toward piety for the disguise and concealment it can offer
            them.” Martin Buber, Good and Evil, pg. 111.

          • HeilMary1

            WaPo bans personal insults against politicians like Newt Gingrich. I’ve resorted to replacing and misspelling the mildest words to get my comments to post.

            And troubled headshrink/author M. Scott Peck wrote something similar about evil people hiding out in churches in his book “People of the Lie”.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Peck’s book really helped me. And you have quite a memory. That passage appears in a footnote from the book.
            I was profoundly influenced by People of the Lie.

          • HeilMary1

            My dead friend, Ann, gave me that book. She survived home experiments by a Munchausen by Proxy Hanford nuclear plant scientist dad. She learned about Munchausen by Proxy psychos when she studied psychiatric nursing. Before her face cancer set in, she briefly worked at a St. Petersburg, FL Catholic hospital and for one of the assassinated abortion providers. Peck didn’t mention Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome, but his examples of evil people described the MBPS M.O.

          • expect_resistance

            WTF? What site was that?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Rolling Fucking Stone. God’s truth.

            A band of lifesitenews folks invaded to undermine an abortion article. RS uses an auto censor robot and they had no defense. These folks abused spam. They teamed up to have stuff removed.

          • L-dan

            That’s a downside of robo-censors rather than live ones.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I have developed a nomad mentality.

            I have a blog and I use disqus. That makes me a moderator. I get to see the reputation of posters. I was gratified to see that I have a high reputation.

            I still get the heaveho.

            At first it pained me. Now I have a different attitude. All these pages and blogs and websites are tracked by evaluators of all kinds now. It means money to them.

            I am a cadillac poster even if I do say a dirty word once in awhile. Websites better make me comfortable or I am out of there. They need me. I do not need them.

            I personally am thrilled when folks come by and comment on my blog. It will be interesting to see myself handling troll comments in the future.

          • L-dan

            *nod* I don’t envy the people moderating these things. It can be a full time job.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Yep. The old AOL board had human moderators. I got so mad once I said “Close your legs, you are stinking up the room.” She removed my post and wrote to me “I know you really did not mean to say that.” She was lovely.

          • expect_resistance

            I believe you. I watched the beginning of that thread and didn’t want to touch it. I know I would invest way too much time arguing with the trolls.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Good move. You were right.

          • HeilMary1

            Did you post this on another thread? — because I don’t see my M. Scott Peck reference here.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Yes. On another website.

          • L-dan

            See, this is why I mostly don’t jump anyone for tone unless it’s right off the scale. I have no idea what’s being dealt with on the other side of the screen.

            I have a strong preference for myself to keep my ‘work voice’ on when online. Makes the cussing more shocking when I do use it. :p But that’s my own schtick, and I don’t require that everyone have the same one.

          • King Rat

            I used to swear a lot. I don’t anymore. But, if I do reach a certain level of frustration, I will resort to using ‘dumbfuck’ with wild abandon.

            In the end, the PC side *does* look better if we are calm, rational and present a good case. However, when it gets to a certain point, when people are just trolling for no other reason than to fuck with everyone, playing nice is no longer necessary.

          • HeilMary1

            Niceness doesn’t work with psychopathic gaslighters.

          • King Rat

            Exactly. The only reason to be nice is to provide a good argument for the lurkers, but, once we have refuted the same question 20x apiece, the entire exercise becomes a waste of time.

          • HeilMary1

            I lost patience for 5×5 for the same reason I cut off my Munchausen by Proxy family. Munchausen by Proxy perps are as relentless as pedophiles. They’re always looking for more victims to pretend rescue from their secretly inflicted diseases that “defy cures”. This is why the RCC needs billions of sickly poor to inspire holy orgasm in misery addicts like Mother Teresa. Denial of effective family planning guarantees that billions of sickly poor will remain sickly and poor. My family insisted it was “God’s Will” that I stay disfigured. Fetal idolaters don’t give a hoot about pregnancy’s deadly complications or the birth defects that forced birth kids will suffer. They want women and children to suffer so they can be sanctified by other people’s IMPOSED senseless suffering.

          • ansuz

            “holy orgasm in misery addicts like Mother Teresa.”
            That is an excellent way of putting it.

            “They want women and children to suffer so they can be sanctified by other people’s IMPOSED senseless suffering.”

            And suffering brings those who are experiencing it closer to Jesus, too.

          • HeilMary1

            “And suffering brings those who are experiencing it closer to Jesus, too.”
            Exactly! One of “Mommy” T’s fed-up, dying patients snapped at her: “Tell Jesus to stop kissing me!”

          • expect_resistance

            Well said! I hate it when people say “God’s will.” To me that sounds like a justification for abuse.

          • expect_resistance

            You’re right it doesn’t work. I can be a nice civil person until I’m pushed or see other people here getting abused by a troll. I really lost my cool when I saw 5×5’s post to L-dan — It really pissed me off. My PSTD alert when up when I read the abusive crap 5×5 posted. I’ve already survived abuse in real life and don’t need to be verbally assaulted by a mean-spirited lying troll at a community I feel comfortable in. Glad it’s gone.

          • HeilMary1

            Trolls trigger my PTSD too!

          • L-dan

            Yep. And, frankly, I have the resources for it and lack some of the background that would make it extra hard to keep my cool with some of these wankers.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Great rule of thumb.
            I write and perform comedy. I can write prose from the sublime to the filthy con brio.
            I never flag. If I flag you, you have to be a real POS. Even I, trashmouth of the universe, have my limits. Mostly, I like it when the trolls come by.
            The more I can be myself, the more useful I can be to this community. I do see it as a community. I even, in Fiona, have an old comrade here from years ago.

          • King Rat

            I picked up ‘dumbuck’ and ‘dimwit’ from fiona. She talks down to people – like a baws!

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NisCkxU544c

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Fiona has a brain like a don and mouth like a trucker. I like that in a person.

          • expect_resistance

            I hear you. I never flag either but this time was different. A line was crossed.

            I used to post here as “rebellious_grrl.” Did you happen to post as “a_hunt?” Sorry if this is intrusive and you don’t have to answer. There are several people who used to post here years ago or do now under a different name that I miss. For example, “crowepps, a_hunt, and pro-choice ferret. The only reason I’m rambling about this is because crowepps taught me how to deal with trolls and not lose my cool.

          • King Rat

            Please don’t tone troll allies.

          • five_by_five

            Ansuz, answer my question.

            Now.

          • King Rat

            Whether or not I, or every single RHRC user but you is ansuz, is completely IRRELEVANT.

            The question stands on it’s own merits.

            Again, the fact that you have to resort to lame excuses to refuse answering is proof that you’ve already lost.

          • ansuz

            Trufax: I am really a bunch of cats inside of a human suit.

            Moar trufax: We are really the exact same bunch of cats inside of two human suits. It’s quantum, or something.

          • King Rat
          • ansuz

            *wibbles*

            (I seriously have to find a kitty-friendly place to live next year.)

          • King Rat

            I love lynx. Also, servals:

            http://www.noahfcc.com/servals/serval%20geoffroy.jpg.jpg

            The ears make the cat, imo.

            BTW, my kitty is still a kitten at heart (well they all are really). Whenever she finishes a meal, she paws the fuck out of anything that is within reach. Wants more food, but the wall is *not* her mom’s teat.

          • ansuz

            The kitties in the basket look more like caracals than lynx, to me.

            But so much <3<3<3<3<3

          • King Rat

            They are indeed caracals. You are correct. I actually think they are cuter than lynx.

            This will blow your mind:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbmObjwrB5U

          • expect_resistance

            I love the ears on the caracals. There were two male cats acting out something similar under my window at about 2 a.m. this morning. My female kitty thought it would be fun to join in. Very tired today.

          • ansuz

            *iz ded*

            Go look at this:
            catsquestioningthebible. tumblr

          • King Rat

            Those are adorable. The kitty with the infected eye on the first page makes me sad though:(

          • ansuz

            Which question?

          • expect_resistance

            No worries. I have anger issues and have spent years in therapy for it.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Thank you. Helps to know I have company.

          • HeilMary1

            Hypocrite 5×5 has flagged me for dishing dirt back at him.

          • expect_resistance

            Me too. If he keeps doing this I might use my RH account. In that case I post as “rebellious_grrl”

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Of course it has. Wart.

          • Arekushieru

            I WILL engage, because, frankly, I think that is worse than not engaging, but, even though I may swear, I will not use epithets or name-calling.

          • five_by_five

            “But mommy, they called me a name…..”

            Isn’t that what you were making fun of me for when I flagged your inappropriate comments?

            Hmmmm…

          • L-dan

            Frustrated me a time or two because I couldn’t respond once they were flagged. But really, that’s probably better for my blood pressure anyway. ^^

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I want to add that I prefer Joey Randolph to 5×5. Joey’s hate and scorn is kind of refreshing. It is honest and pure in its own way.

            5×5 is abusive in a way that Joey Randolph is not. I am not sure I can define the difference. But I feel it.

          • Shan

            Yeah, I get what you mean there. At least Joey has a clear “thing”. 5 is just a troll.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Thank you. I needed that.

            I would never flag Joey. He gets to speak his piece. It is deeply felt. He does not know us. He is a straight forward kind of guy.

            5×5 is in our fooking parlor day after day. It has come to know us. And if anything, the abuse has gotten more personal and pointed since the beginning as it has come to know us. I am going to “pluck this serpent from my breast.”

          • Brady Swenson

            We’ve just banned five_by_five.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Thank you.
            And you know what is absolutely contrary and human, I am sorry about that.
            If he had made a single attempt at real dialogue, I would have reciprocated.
            I wanted to reciprocate.

          • L-dan

            People did reciprocate when he/she first showed up.

            I don’t really mind having debates, even ones with stupid, childish stunts involved, because I know I learned a lot from the responses to that stuff when I first started reading here.

            But when it becomes repetitive *gotcha* comments that don’t actually generate that kind of useful commentary, it get tiresome.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Well said. I think between us all we have typed a manifesto. Board Ethics.

          • expect_resistance

            I’ll second that. The only upside to the troll threads is learning from the responses.

          • expect_resistance

            Thanks Brady.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            P.S. And it is not like folks do not flag me.
            Last flag = me saying “what a pile of hot and steaming bull!@#$.”

            So I edited it to bovine excrement. No dice. I like Crooks and Liars where I can cuss once in awhile.

            Compare that to calling me a “murderer.”

          • King Rat

            You’re a b**** and a c*** just like me and that is why I <3 you

          • five_by_five

            Please answer my question ansuz.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Back at you, Ratso.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Heil name calls a lot. I am not flagging her for it ever. Not ever. Fair be damned.

            I do not flag people who are vituperative. I have never flagged Joey R.

            I will flag 5×5 to the same standards any churchlady would. One step out of a very narrow line, and I flag it.

            I know none of it makes a damned bit of difference. Because Joey got chased off because he got flagged and 5×5 is still here.

          • HeilMary1

            5×5 is the inappropriate hypocrite name-and-shame-caller here. He shames women for their legitimate medical self-defense and twists all their facts. Choosing when to fairly flag angry comments is a subjective mine field, and flagging seems unfair when the flagged turn out to be RCC whistle blowing abuse victims, etc. Anti-choice web sites love banning the most polite, truthful whistle blowers. 5×5 falsly fancies himself an abolitionist snarking up Stormfront. In reality, he’s a pompous perv shaming women for not committing childbirth suicides on behalf of pedophile priests.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            “he’s a pompous perv shaming women for not committing childbirth suicides on behalf of pedophile priests.”

            ………….
            I say this is its Epitaph.
            Rest in Pieces.

          • HeilMary1

            “Rest in Pieces”

            LOL! — Sylvester the cat dreams of that headstone for Tweety Bird.

          • HeilMary1

            But troll ljean80 will never call out 5×5 for his misogynistic name calling.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            It wants you.

          • ljean8080

            i AM not a troll.

          • expect_resistance

            I think 5×5 finally got banned. It’s about time. Yahoo!

          • King Rat

            Did you know that RH Reality Check has a facebook page? It does. Let that be a lesson to you. And anyone else. :P

          • expect_resistance

            I know I just hate Facebook. I have a very unusual name (I’m the only person in the U.S. with my name) so I don’t like using Facebook because of stalkers and crazy anti-choicers.

          • King Rat

            RHRC can be privately messaged on fecebook. A mod will answer if you have a complaint about certain posters. You will remain anonymous.

          • expect_resistance

            Cool. I like that option. (When I see your name I can’t help myself from imaging the rat from the Nutcracker Suite. ) :)

          • five_by_five

            “Name-calling is another flag-worthy offense.”

            You’d better tell your friend HeilMary1

          • expect_resistance

            You are abusive she us not.

          • goatini

            HM outs abusive asshats for their abuse, and some crybaby asshat doesn’t like it. Too bad for said asshat.

          • expect_resistance

            They can’t deal with being called out for their abusive behavior.

          • HeilMary1

            Thanks! Looks like I missed a good food fight again — have no internet at home.

          • five_by_five

            But mommmmm!!!!!

          • Shan

            I give Mary a pass on the name-calling because she has a lot of issues that she’s been brave enough to put out there for the rest of us to ruminate on.

            Do you have any issues you’d like to share with the rest of us that would make us sympathize with you for YOUR situation, whatever it is?

          • five_by_five

            “I give Mary a pass on the name-calling”

            So, in other words.

            Cognitive dissonance because
            Cognitive dissonance because
            Cognitive dissonance because
            Cognitive dissonance because

            Practice what you preach Shan.

          • Shan

            No, five, open yourself up and tell me why YOU should get a pass.

          • Ramanusia

            That’s not what cognitive dissonance means.

            Here’s an example you can relate to:

            Screeching about how precious life is, and why killing is bad, while advocating policies that deny a woman the right to choose her own life, while blocking access to procedures that would prevent her from dying, even when the 22 week old fetus will never survive out of the uterus.

            Practice what you preach, if you wish to support life, stop attacking medical procedures that are used to save lives.

          • Arekushieru

            Also, the majority of women who have had abortions were using contraception, so WHO is the ‘dummy’? DERP.

        • HeilMary1

          Irresponsible mother killer 5×5 refuses to recognize that ALL abortions are for SELF-DEFENDING HEALTH REASONS, whether or not health reasons are actually mentioned.

      • King Rat

        ansuz


        2 days ago

        I’m still waiting for an answer to my question:

        Are you saying that I have no right to label something that’s in my
        body when I don’t want it to be an ‘alien invader’, or are you saying
        that regardless of how I feel about it, having sex means I have to allow the zef to use my body?

        http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2014/03/03/whos-blame-woman-experiences-abortion-regret/#comment-1274526136

        All of us are waiting!

      • anja

        So what if it is done for convenience. First and foremost that’s a legal reason and second your “convenience” category covers a plethora of necessary and responsible reasons for having an abortion. It’s your narrow view of reality that’s irresponsible.

        • HeilMary1

          5×5 never questions the “convenience” of Viagra, even though it ultimately results in millions of abortions worldwide.

      • expect_resistance

        Another inappropriate abuseive post. Flagged.

        • five_by_five

          Flagged for flagging.

          • expect_resistance

            I am not the abusive lying troll. I’m flagging you for abusive posts.

          • five_by_five

            Telling the truth is abusive? Ha. Sucks to be you.

            Flagged.

          • goatini

            Continue to flag all liars, especially this one.

          • Shan

            “Or, like your abortion, for irresponsibility.”

            That’s the flaggable offense. It’s a personal attack. Stop doing it if you don’t want to be flagged.

          • five_by_five

            Is it not true?

          • red_zone

            Only for YOU.

          • Shan

            It doesn’t matter whether it’s true or not. You have no idea whether she (if she IS a she) had an abortion or not and your definition of “irresponsible” is irrelevant. So the only reason you have for referring to whoever’s purported abortion is because you’re attempting using it as a personal attack because you assume abortoins = bad. Automatic “F” again.

          • five_by_five

            Yes, I do have an idea. Because in a reply to me some weeks ago, she made a point to tell me that she had skipped her dosage of birth control pills, then got pregnant and subsequently had an abortion.

            I don’t find that to be “responsible.” But maybe you do and we’d have to disagree.

          • Shan

            Your definition of “responsible” is irrelevant to anybody but you.

          • red_zone

            Who’s ‘truth’ is it?

          • expect_resistance

            No, you haven’t told the truth yet. Your posts are abusive and that’s why you’ve been flagged.

          • King Rat

            Why do you keep refusing to answer ansuz’ question? too scared? Don’t have the intellect?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I am joining you. Nobody has to take incessant abuse.

      • lady_black

        The vast majority of abortions are not done after 20 weeks, dummy. That’s under 1% of the total. The ones that are NOT done for “convenience.” A late term abortion is decidedly inconvenient. You don’t expel something that size with a simple vacuum cannula. You have to go through the same process as actually giving birth, and even so, it’s still safer.

        • five_by_five

          Great. Then let’s outlaw all elective abortions after 20 weeks and only allow them for reason of maternal and/or fetal health.

          What’s the problem?

        • Ramanusia

          They do think a woman is being selfish when she makes the decision that it would be far more convenient for her if she continues breathing.

      • goatini

        Convenience: The state of being able to proceed with something with little effort or difficulty

        NOT
        “Convenience: The state of great effort and difficulty, being obstructed, interfered with, stalked, harassed, and violated at every turn, when attempting to proceed with a safe, legal minor outpatient medical procedure”

    • expect_resistance

      I’ve been following some of the crap the forced-birthers said and it’s making my blood boil. Could you imagine being in the audience and listening to it live?

      • King Rat

        I read something so ungodly stupid today on a forum that I frequent that I feel compelled to share it:

        The argument for abortion on demand is essentially “women must have the
        right to absolute freedom of action without consequence”. I can’t think
        of any other group of people who have that right or any other
        circumstance where that right applies, so it’s not an equality argument
        at all. I could see an equality argument if men could knock women up and
        abandon them without consequence, but we can’t anymore, if we ever
        could. It’s just an “anything a woman wants is a priori right” argument.

        There is so much wrong with this that I don’t even know where to begin. This asshat is saying that ‘women have special right’s that no one else has because men have to pay child support’

        And it seems to me that if a man injures himself, or eats a bad burrito and comes down with an illness as a result – he is not forced to LIVE with the ‘consequences’ because he made a bad decision. Heck, men are even permitted to seek treatment for venereal disease! And men who injure people in the commission of a crime, or through negligent actions, are never forced to give up their bodily autonomy to preserve the life of the person they injured.

        So, what’s that again, about women being the ONLY people on earth who are carte blanche given the right to not face the consequences of their actions?

        What a dipshit.

        • expect_resistance

          Which idiot forced-birthed said that? Rand Paul? Every time I see him I can’t help but to think ‘porn hair.” Ted Cruz is creepy too. Arn’t you glad you’re Canadian? As an American I want to hang my head in shame after seeing this crap.

          • King Rat

            Just a random dude.

        • Shan

          “What a dipshit.”

          It’s a “financial abortion” MRA freak, probably. The basis of their arguments usually ends up being that, because women can legally have abortions and “escape the consequences” of sex, men should be able to “escape the consequences” as well by not being legally required to pay child support (or whatever).

          • lady_black

            That’s their argument. For obvious reasons, it doesn’t work that way.

          • L-dan

            pretty much.

            And really, if men could get pregnant, they would have an equal right to an abortion. But there is no way to make it right for anyone to dictate what medical procedures someone else gets.

            Not that abortions are ‘escaping the consequences’. If you break your arm, you have some choices as to the consequences…treat it and wear a cast for x weeks, etc. Or just tie it up and let it heal as best you can and live with it being crooked for the rest of your life. Or, ignore it, and possibly die of infection or other complications. Wearing a cast isn’t ‘escaping the consequences’, it’s just choosing one set of them.

        • lady_black

          Having an abortion IS dealing with the consequences. And I know of NO state where child support laws apply only to men. That is definitely a dipshit argument.

        • HeilMary1

          And when women die from pregnancy-related complications, when have the fathers, priests and politicians ever been jailed for causing their deaths??

      • L-dan

        I don’t think I could do it. Obviously it’s good I didn’t chose Journalism as my calling.

    • HeilMary1

      Fetal fascist Fiorina is trafficking other women’s wombs on behalf of pedophile priests and slave labor billionaires. Not only would she never have had her cushy jobs if she suffered obstetric bladder and bowel incontinence, she also has probably had the “career convenience” abortions that 5×5 always whines about.

  • fiona64

    The fact that this woman’s primary claim to fame is bankrupting one of the most successful computer firms in the country makes me question why anyone would consider her opinion on a brand of *cereal,* let alone public policy.

    • goatini

      Every company that GWBu$h ever touched went to sh!te too.

      • fiona64

        I know, right? It takes a special kind of stupid to kill an oil drilling company in Texas and a major league baseball team.

  • bitchybitchybitchy

    When women do not have the freedom to make their own, very personal decisions about whether or when to have children, it’s hypocritical to talk about “insulting” women.
    Respecting women as fully human and capable of making their own decisions about all aspects of their lives is something that the anti-choice crowd doesn’t do.

  • King Rat

    Of course. Because ‘ biology as destiny’ honors women.

  • Joey Randolph

    Let’s put women in medically induced comas such that they can FEEL NO PAIN. And then let’s start tearing them limb-for-limb unto death; hey no worries. They didn’t feel a thing. Would there be any volunteers? If not, then this serves to show how EVIL it is for women to do the same to their own gestating babies in utero.

    • goatini

      Oh look, Forced Birth Fapper is back.

      • Shan

        LOL! I just learned that term “fapp” from my teenager. Thankfully, he does his own laundry.

        • expect_resistance

          That’s a new one to me. I had to look that one up. Yes, appropriately used in this case.

    • King Rat

      If a woman was raping the shit out of you, you would have the right to use deadly force to protect yourself, asshat.

      A fetus assaults and violates a woman’s body, and she has the right to protect herself.

      • five_by_five

        A fetus is invited in by the actions of the women.

        You do know how sex works, right?

        • King Rat

          ansuz


          2 days ago

          I’m still waiting for an answer to my question:

          Are you saying that I have no right to label something that’s in my
          body when I don’t want it to be an ‘alien invader’, or are you saying
          that regardless of how I feel about it, having sex means I have to allow the zef to use my body?

          http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2014/03/03/whos-blame-woman-experiences-abortion-regret/#comment-1274526136

          • five_by_five

            Are you ansuz?

          • King Rat

            ansuz


            2 days ago

            I’m still waiting for an answer to my question:

            Are you saying that I have no right to label something that’s in my
            body when I don’t want it to be an ‘alien invader’, or are you saying
            that regardless of how I feel about it, having sex means I have to allow the zef to use my body?

            Why don’t you answer ansuz?

          • ansuz

            I am. I’d like an answer to the question.

            Are you saying that I have no right to label something that’s in my
            body when I don’t want it to be an ‘alien invader’, or are you saying
            that regardless of how I feel about it, having sex means I have to allow the zef to use my body?

            /article/2014/03/03/whos-blame-woman-experiences-abortion-regret/#comment-1274526136

          • five_by_five

            It’s not an “alien.” It’s your CHILD.

          • goatini

            All children, ever, have already been born. Vicious lying troll is a vicious liar.

          • five_by_five

            I hope that makes you feel better about yourself when you killed your child.

          • goatini

            More vicious lies from a vicious lying troll, because I’ve never obtained a pregnancy termination. All children, ever, have already been born, and you are a vile and venal gestational slavery troll.

          • King Rat

            So surrogates can ‘murder’ the prenate that is gestating inside of them because it is not, in fact, their offspring:P

            Cool!

          • five_by_five

            No, because a surrogate isn’t forced into having the baby either. Unless you know of cases where that happened, the person does it voluntarily. Did you not know that?

          • King Rat

            Your logic is 1) can’t abort because it’s your child 2) a surrogate should be able to abort at any time, because it is not in fact her child (what if she decides that she’d rather go to the beach than carry the pregnancy to term?)

            You lose.

          • lady_black

            “Voluntary” is NOT necessarily ongoing. But you already knew that.

          • lady_black

            It’s not a child.

          • ansuz

            What you’ve said is leaning towards the side of ‘I have no right to label it an alien invader’, with a side dose of blustering moral indignation.

            That’s not an answer. Pick one or the other option, or explain to me why my framing is wrong.

          • five_by_five

            You could label the child growing inside of you anything you want. Call it a monkey. Call it a parasite. Call it a clump of cells.

            That doesn’t make it not your child. Unless there was some weird immaculate conception shit going on. In that case, go ahead and get abortion. Because that shit IS an alien and we don’t need no stinkin’ alien babies.

          • Ivy Mike

            Oh, shut up, shill. We’ve heard it ALL before, and it hasn’t become any more true with repetition.

            Go back to your church and find some new talking points.

          • five_by_five

            Since when do atheists go to church?

          • King Rat

            So if ansuz is acting as a surrogate, and it is not in fact xir child, xe can kill it, dismember it, and flush it into the sewer with all of the medical waste, right?

          • five_by_five

            Ever see Alien with Sigorney Weaver? That shit is whack.

            Or The Fly? Yikes that was creepy. Kill all of those humanoid demons ASAP.

          • King Rat

            Yes and alien was actually about forced pregnancy.

            Anyways, I take your silence to mean that you find it acceptable for surrogates to dismember the prenate at any time during pregnancy because there is no genetic relation.

          • five_by_five

            Question already answered. Pay attention.

          • King Rat

            No. It was not answered. You assume that a surrogate will not change their mind for frivolous reasons. But as you have patiently explained to us, women abort at 30 weeks all the damn time once they realize that they are too fat for bikini season.

          • five_by_five

            “women abort at 30 weeks all the damn time once they realize that they are too fat for bikini season”

            Nope, I never wrote that.

            Try again.

            And, yes, I already answered your inquiry. Use the search function if you cannot find it. Do you know how to do that or would you like me to step you through it?

          • King Rat

            No. You did not answer. You just assume that every surrogate will not want to abort. Tsk tsk.

          • five_by_five

            I’ve heard of a surrogate deciding NOT to abort the baby, defending the baby from parents who couldn’t deal with a baby that wasn’t “perfect.” But, not the other way around.

            Tsk, tsk.

          • King Rat

            You did not answer.

          • five_by_five

            Already answered….now 15 hours ago…on this thread.

            Learn to read.

          • King Rat

            You did not answer. Saying that you don’t think a surrogate would abort is * not* an answer. Women who choose pregnancy change their minds all the time when life circumstances change.

            I will simply take your inability to answer as proof that you believe it is acceptable to murder unborn babies that are not related to you.

          • five_by_five

            I answered. You didn’t like the answer.

            Saying I didn’t answer because it’s not what you wanted to hear just makes you look like a moron who doesn’t know how to read.

          • King Rat

            The mistake you made is by saying that ansuz abortion would be immoral and wrong because it would be xir’s own child. So then I brought up surrogates. You didn’t have an answer to that, other than to say you don’t think that a surrogate would abort. Which isn’t an answer.

          • ansuz

            …this is exactly how I think of pregnancy.

          • Ivy Mike

            I’m curious, Fiver. Do you or any of your forced-birth buddies actually think you’re “converting” anyone with your uneducated, ignorant, and lying-out-your-ass posts?

            Or your snarky, belligerent jerky behavior?

            Because seriously, it does nothing more than confirm what we all already thought about all of you…that you are supercilious, arrogant, ignorant, lying religious fanatics, and therefore unworthy of even the credit of a viewpoint.

          • five_by_five

            Here’s the deal, sparky.

            Abortions are WAY down. And that’s a good thing.

            I’m not sure where you grew up, but where I did there was this nonchalant attitude about abortion. I remember talking to a friend of mine who was sexually active and she told me “If I get pregnant I’ll just get an abortion” when I asked her about her idiot boyfirnd not wanting to use a condom and her not taking the pill because “it’ll make me fat.” I seriously wanted to punch her. But hopefully that attitude is changing. But making abortion more rare is a GOOD thing. Not a bad thing.

            Discouraging the attitude “I’ll just get an abortion” is one way. Teaching people that using contraception is a good thing is another.

        • fiona64

          Consent is not on-going. You do know how consent works, right?

        • Shan

          Five, unless you’re using that as an argument for why abortion should only be legal when a woman did NOT consent to sex, you shouldn’t be using that argument. It would still be a POS argument, but at least it would have some context. Because it’s totally irrelevant in relation to any argument for why all abortion should be illegal.

        • lady_black

          Like I told you before, I hung up the “no fetus welcome” sign a long time ago. My actions are whatever I please, and you have no say in the matter. I will NOT abstain from sex. I’m an adult, that means I get to act like one. You’ll never have any say over my body, so get over yourself.

          • expect_resistance

            I love the “no fetus welcome” sign. I need a t-shirt that says that.

          • ansuz

            I’d wear it.

          • five_by_five

            So, you’re willing to place yourself at risk of pregnancy, but not able to deal with the consequences. Interesting.

            Acting like an adult means dealing with consequences without murdering your own offspring.

          • King Rat

            So if a surrogate is carrying someone else’s offspring, and she chooses to get an abortion, it would not be murder, because she isn’t related to it? Is that what you’re saying?

          • goatini

            I see it never occurs to Numbnuts here that “offspring” have to have, well, *sprung off*, i.e., BIRTH, to be considered as such.

          • Mindy McIndy

            If you know of people murdering their offspring, you need to go to the police immediately.

          • Shan

            “Acting like an adult means dealing with consequences without murdering your own offspring.”

            That’s your definition. Not the legal one. Do you think the legal definition should be changed?

          • red_zone

            So pregnancy should be a punishment?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Abusive name calling. No one here is a murderer. Flagged.

    • Shan

      Make a legal argument for doing that to women, Joey. Otherwise, you just sound like another hysterical pearl-clutcher. And also a psychopath.

    • ansuz

      Please tell me that this is sarcasm, and not an honest attempt at logic.

    • Arekushieru

      When someone who will likely not be /never has been pregnant minimizes the experiences of pregnancy as something that has no direct impact on women they show their UTTER lack of compassion for women, reveal their MISOGYNY and unveil their true purpose: to send women back to the days when they were nothing more than breeding livestock. You are SICK.

      • King Rat

        wb Are

    • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

      Joey has arrived with the murder-porn. Lucky us.

    • fiona64

      ‘fess up … you were typing that with one hand, weren’t you?

      • Shan

        Ack! Grosslol…

    • lady_black

      Let’s not. I’m not occupying your body and leeching nutrients out of your bloodstream for my own benefits. You blather about “gestating ‘babies’ in utero” as though my uterus was something I carry around in a backpack, and what’s inside that backpack is of no consequence to my life and health. In short, you don’t have a clue. Evil, shmevil. You’re an idiot.

    • expect_resistance

      You are seriously detached from reality.

      • Ivy Mike

        aren’t all of them? Hell, they all even think themselves SMART.

  • Ella Warnock

    “All issues are women’s issues,” Fiorina said.

    Yes, well, we’d have a lot more time and attention for all of those other issues if we weren’t STILL fighting the bodily autonomy battle. Right-wing, male politicians pontificating about what women “should” or “be allowed” to do in matters of reproductive health is what’s insulting here, Fiorina.

    Really, who among these simpletons would put up with a national discussion about what men “should” or “be allowed” to do with their sperm? Not a one of them, that’s who. And we shouldn’t, either. We need to have the words “should” and “be allowed” stricken altogether from the discussion about women’s health.

  • Christine svensson

    He is probably proud being called a psychopath. And I do not understand why “pro lifers” focus so much on these few late abortions, knowing very well that a vast majority is performed medically

  • expect_resistance

    Carly Fiorina is out of touch with reality as are most conservatives. She blames climate change on liberals. Are you kidding me? Yet they can’t look at the environmental devastation caused by deregulation, like “Freedom Industries” for example.

    Fiorina said that “lives are being sacrificed at the altar of Liberal equality.” WTF? She said, “Big labor has the biggest voice in Washington.” What? No! The multi-national giant corporations have a seat at the table. We don’t. She is a proud “Pro-life woman” then cited her opposition to abortions occurring at five months. How many abortions happen at five months? We know the vast majority of abortions happen in the first trimester (Or I would say – as soon as possible.) Again WTF? What she said is beyond insulting. To her “women have all this power” but she doesn’t believe that women can have agency over their bodily autonomy. Another sock puppet conservative.

  • Melinda Hampton

    This site is becoming as bad as FauxNews.

    • King Rat

      elaborate

      • Melinda Hampton

        Granted, I may have spoken too quickly as I went onto foxnews just now and it appears they don’t have a comments sections.

        My point was that this site used to be a place for non-biased information and news. Now it’s just seems like a place for pro-life and pro-choice to yell at one another and get nothing done but hurl insults.

        • goatini

          S/h/it who smelt it, dealt it. Stop trolling.

        • expect_resistance

          Again, I disagree. This site is a thousand more times more accurate than faux news and its cheerleading for the Koch brothers.

          • goatini

            Troll is crying because troll doesn’t like it that s/h/it got called out here so very quickly, with s/h/it’s brand shiny new account created specifically for trolling.

        • L-dan

          You mean that pro-choice posters quickly debunk myths and outright lies tossed around by trolls so they don’t simply sit there unchallenged to confuse someone reading the site for information?

          We’ve had reasonable conversations with folks actually looking for information. We also argue amongst ourselves from time to time since we’re not a monolith (there’s a minor vaccine debate going on right now, in fact).

          • Melinda Hampton

            Yeah, I saw the vaccine debate going on. Interesting topic. I was kind of surprised the medical professional of the group (although she’s only a nurse) was anti-vaccine.

          • goatini

            Seeing as s/h/it seems to have some spare time, s/h/it should do some actual academic research on Margaret Sanger. Especially since such actual academic research would disabuse s/h/it of the complete and utter falsehoods s/h/it has publicly spewed on what s/h/it falsely imagines to be, ahem, “Margaret Sanger’s view on eugenics”.

          • Melinda Hampton

            Margaret Sanger’s views on eugenics are not exactly a secret.

            http://en . wikipedia . org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger#Eugenics

            What’s your counter-argument? That she wasn’t a eugenicist?

          • goatini

            I see that s/h/it is desperately floundering over on the CPAC article, as regards s/h/it’s utter and complete lack of actual knowledge about Margaret Sanger. S/h/it is now babbling on “negative eugenics” – an actual, accurate example of which, in the context of Sanger, s/h/it just can’t provide.

          • fiona64

            You clearly don’t understand Sanger *at all.* Have you read any of her actual papers?

            Yeah, I thought not. https://www.nyu.edu/projects/sanger/webedition/app/documents/show.php?sangerDoc=143449.xml might be a good place to start. In fact, let me give you a pertinent quote (emphasis added):

            While I personally believe in the sterilization of the feeble-minded, the insane and syphilitic, I have not been able to discover that these measures are more than superficial deterrents when applied to the constantly growing stream of the unfit. They are excellent means of meeting a certain phase of the situation, but I believe in regard to these, as in regard to other eugenic means, that they do not go to the bottom of the matter. Neither the mating of healthy couples nor the sterilization of certain recognized types of the unfit touches the great problem of unlimited reproduction of
            those whose housing, clothing, and food are all inadequate to physical and mental health.

            —–
            In other words Sanger realized that, regardless of her personal beliefs, eugenics was not practical. Contraception, on the other hand, *was* and *is.*

            You’re welcome.

          • five_by_five

            Yeah, contraception to the “Negro.” Which is why she set up her clinic in Brownsville, Brooklyn.

            Oh, let’s ignore that part.

          • fiona64

            And the Irish Catholic … and any other woman who wanted to appropriately space out her children.

            Oh, let’s ignore that part.

            Idiot.

          • King Rat

            you might wanna fix the formatting on that

          • fiona64

            It looks okay to me; what are you seeing that’s messed up?

          • King Rat

            It is fixed now. I saw all of the html.

          • fiona64

            “Only a nurse” is a pretty insulting remark …

          • L-dan

            Didn’t even bother with it at that point, since I’m pretty sure both of the main folks there are in health care and it’s running at a tangent from the actual comment.

          • expect_resistance

            I noticed that too. I don’t think they understand how much education you need for being a nurse and not even to mention that there are Ph.D. level nurses that are very highly educated.

          • lady_black

            As a nurse, I find it very insulting.

          • King Rat

            They did the same to you at LAN. Dismissed nurses, and even called into question your credentials.

            Because a good nurse would know that embryos cure cancer!!!!!!!!

          • lady_black

            I don’t care. I have a license that says I am a nurse, and that trumps any pro-life nonsense. Funny that doctors never prescribe pregnancy as a treatment for cancer. I wonder how the liars explain that.

          • L-dan

            And having just read about the use of malaria to cure syphilis, if pregnancy cured cancer, I’m sure that would become a thing.

            Heck, if pregnancy cured cancer, there would be research to replicate pregnancy in men, with embryos generated solely as treatment and discarded afterwards without all of the pearl-clutching abortion gets.

          • King Rat

            Tell me what you think of this, used as a rebuttal to the ‘fetus as parasite meme’ (and no, it isn’t a parasite per se, but can behave like one in order to sustain it’s life and grow, often at the woman’s expense):

            “The best thing an organism can do is to reproduce and pass it’s genes on to the next generation”

            Uhm…especially in the case of humans, isn’t that sort of worthless? I mean, considering the high rates of infant mortality in humanity’s ‘natural’ state, I would imagine that the offspring surviving to reproductive age is MORE important than simply being born!

            In fact, raising a human child to reproductive age is far far more expensive in terms of resources than a 10 month gestation!

          • L-dan

            Actually, I’d go straight to the fact that we have zero requirements in our society that call for people to make sure they pass on their genes to the next generation.

            Regardless of how beneficial that is to a given organism (hint…it’s actually completely neutral to the organism. There is no inherent benefit to the organism itself for passing along some genetic information*), we don’t require anyone to do so or we would consider the infertile to be inherently inferior people.

            In modern society, it can be more beneficial to help your relative’s offspring. Some of your genes are in there, you get to apply more of your resources to your own well-being, and your relative’s kids benefit from the resources of their parents plus some of yours. Add in the fact that it’s lower impact on the planet, and it’s a win toward species survival as well.

            *this is part of the issue with laypeople (myself included to some extent) trying to grasp evolutionary biology. Talking about ‘selfish genes’ and so forth makes people think that the organisms or genes somehow actually care about passing along their line in the sense that proud parents might. It’s just that the genes that encode for things or behaviors that improve the chances of their being passed to another generation are the ones most likely to still be around in a few generations (vastly simplified). They don’t actually *care*. It’s no actual benefit to most organisms to have grandchildren.

          • L-dan

            Short version, there’s no moral good to passing along one’s specific genes.

          • King Rat

            OH yeah. For sure. He was just arguing that the fetus cannot be parasitic in any conceivable way, because omg, passing those selfish genes along is the BEST possible thing ANY organism can EVER do. Therefore, pregnancy is good!

          • L-dan

            Passing those genes along is neither good nor bad though. Full stop. Is it beneficial to the species passing along those genes? Sure. However, that confers zero moral weight.

            Parasitism does not depend upon whether or not any part of the interaction is beneficial to the host organism at all. It’s based upon whether it is significantly detrimental. Pregnancy is significantly detrimental to the pregnant organism. The fact that this is outweighed evolutionarily by rates of survival of the offspring doesn’t mean that we are morally required to undergo it.

            After all, allowing rape is a really good way to allow men to pass along their genes, since they can impregnate a lot more woman than via consentual sex. However, as thinking critters that value our freedom, we’ve deemed this morally unacceptable. We can do this without a qualm because passing on ones genes has zero moral weight.

            Male angler fish are parasitic upon female angler fish as part of the process of passing along genes.

            Pretty sure if humans had developed a similar system, at this point in our history we would consider women justified in picking and choosing which men they were willing to allow as parasitic mates, or even if they wanted to go without mates and children altogether.

          • King Rat

            There is this unquestioned idea that having babies is always good. That mindless breeding is a virtue. And this comes from both the PC and PL camps – that abortion is a necessary evil, because really, having a kid should always be everyone’s #1 choice.

            As five_by_five tried to tell ansuz – you can’t get an abortion, it’s your offspring! People like to talk about your ‘obligation’ to your offspring. Which is also why they have no problem forcing rape victims to give birth -it’s half her genes, she is the mother of a baby the moment rapist sperm fertilizes egg!

            They conflate ‘biological’ parenthood with, you know, actual real world parenting. Where people *choose* to become parents. And once you make that decision, then yes, you have an obligation to your kid. But a mindless biological event does not suddenly turn into an obligation simply because sperm met egg.

            And people wrongly assume that human life is always intrinsically good. Especially more of it! Why? Because it just is! They fail to recognize that resources are finite, and that too much human life ends up devaluing it – just look at India as an example of this. Life is cheap in places where people are crowded together like rats in a tiny cage. Just this mindless- moar baybeez good, for the human race, for evolution, for the economy!

            The economy is my favourite one. Because the state doesn’t really give a shit about the birth rate because, somehow, having more baybeez is a wonderful joyous thing. No. More baybeez = future taxpayers, future slave labour force, and future soldiers. But, all of the above truths are hard to swallow. So people instead try to romanticize things. Heck, throughout most of history, people have had kids not because of their intrinsic value, but because kids were actually slave labour, especially in agricultural societies. You can even see this today in the Quiverfull groups – the kids do all the work, and they do the job of raising their siblings. And hunter gatherer societies have traditionally tried to manipulate the birth rate and gender ratios, depending on how many people they needed for certain tasks (war being one such task).

            But no one ever questions this. Nope. Family = good. Moar kids = better. Infinite economic growth = even better. They never think about the downsides. And if they dare to talk about it, they are accused of being heartless, amoral monsters. Every pregnancy should be cause for celebration – even if you can’t give your kid a good quality of life. Even if the pregnancy will kill you. Because mindless breeding is GOD.

          • L-dan

            *nod* Look at Dickensian England for a spotlight on how viewing kids as disposable, cheap labor is hardly only a third world thing.

            There is no universal ‘value’ to having more of a given animal. This is a thing we, with our big brains, have assigned. And we do it in different ways.

            And…the time change is catching up to me, so that’s as intellectual as I’ll be at the moment.

          • King Rat

            My thinking is clear, for the time being. I find that if I spend too much time debating abortion that it all becomes a big mess in my mind, which makes me incapable of forming any sort of coherent argument.

            Anyways, have a kitty:

            http://www.whiskyintelligence.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/intellectual-cat-500×375.jpg

          • L-dan

            D’aww bright kitty.

            And yeah, it gets that way. Right now it’s busy season at work with extra demands, finals time, and time change. Brain gets full, and tired.

          • fiona64

            You don’t even have to go back as far as Dickens, just as far as Newt Gingrich’s most recent presidential campaign:
            http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/68729.html

            Quote:

            “This is something that no liberal wants to deal with,”
            Gingrich said. “Core policies of protecting unionization and
            bureaucratization against children in the poorest neighborhoods,
            crippling them by putting them in schools that fail has done more to create income inequality in the United States than any other single policy. It is tragic what we do in the poorest neighborhoods, entrapping children in, first of all, child laws, which are truly stupid.

            “You say to somebody, you shouldn’t go to work before you’re what, 14, 16 years of age, fine. You’re totally poor. You’re in a school that is failing with a teacher that is failing. I’ve tried for years to have avery simple model,” he said. “Most of these schools ought to get rid of the unionized janitors, have one master janitor and pay local students to take care of the school. The kids would actually do work, they would have cash, they would have pride in the schools, they’d begin the process of rising.”

            —-
            It was after that fabulous screed that a friend of mine created a “Newt for President” poster with the classic Victor Hugo woodcut of Cosette and her broom.

          • HeilMary1

            One of Newt’s abandoned kids worked as a church janitor because he refused to pay alimony and child support.

          • L-dan

            I recall that. I mean, really Newt?

          • ansuz

            I want to marry this comment.

          • King Rat

            You should spend some time at the Cross Examined blog on Patheos. There is one commenter there, kodie, who often rambles on at great lengths about societal expectations regarding pregnancy and family.

            I like the way she thinks. Every couple of months, the CE blog owner, Bog Seidensticker, has a good abortion article. Actually, he also has some good articles on gay marriage, procreation, biblical marriage and so on. I think you would like it there. The commentariat is top notch. And I adore kodie.

          • lady_black

            If it doesn’t fall somewhere along the lines of “F*ck societal expectations regarding pregnancy and family” I probably wouldn’t be interested.

          • King Rat

            It falls right along those lines. It’s one of my fave blogs.

            http://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/

          • Ella Warnock

            I adore Kodie too. Her mind works in a most fascinating way.

          • King Rat

            She is one of the wisest people I know. Unfortunately, her account is now private, because Polanco started stalking her:( So now I can’t track her awesome posts:(

          • Ella Warnock

            Aww, bummer.

          • ansuz

            I read posts there sometimes, but don’t often venture into the comments section. I will check it out.

            (As an aside, I know I sometimes drop threads with you that I don’t intend to, because I lose tabs and your replies to me don’t show up in my disqus feed [because your activity is private]. I just wanted to let you know why that happens, in case you’d noticed.)

          • King Rat

            NP. The blog posts are kind of bland, but the commentariat makes up for that. And kodie articulates a lot of what I’ve been thinking about in regards to the intrinsic value of human life and making baybeez.

          • L-dan

            Also…Bog Seidensticker is just an awesome name. I occasionally read Patheos blogs. Mostly when it gets some links from here or Freethought Blogs.

          • King Rat
          • L-dan

            Man that one is annoying. “Sure people don’t have the right to use other people…but pregnancy is different.”

            “but wait, before we actually try dealing with the ‘people don’t have this right’ argument…let’s introduce the other person, it’s a cute little fetus!”

            Dude has literally no argument. “we don’t kill old people.” Except we do if they’re brain dead…like a fetus essentially is. The only difference is one has the potential to be otherwise eventually.

          • King Rat

            Yep. Special pleading. Are born children less valuable?

            Also, yes, pregnancy is different. And, I might add:

            1) you cannot consent to assault

            2) if the only way to remove the person assaulting you results in their death, then too bad, you have the right to self-defense

            They like to compare abortion to you inviting a person who can’t swim onto your boat, and then throwing them in water.

            I like to say, you invite someone onto your boat, they start to assault you, and the *only* way to end the assault is to throw them overboard. You have that right.

          • King Rat

            Alexander P is the dumbest shitstain on that thread.

          • L-dan

            Yep. I’m going to stop now with him. He’s heading into territory I recognize where the replies will get longer and longer and wind around and around and I’m just not going to want to deal.

            He tosses up links that don’t say what he thinks they say, then moves the goalposts to “well it’s really about rights”. Etc.

            I’m betting he’s not an atheist and is getting all tangled up trying to present an atheist argument .

          • King Rat

            Yep. He just told me that 7 dead women is a worthy price to pay for 100,000 babies because s1uts spread their legs

          • HeilMary1

            Sounds like a perp priest on parole.

          • Ella Warnock

            Word.

            We see all too often where “obligation” to your offspring gets us. Assuming that everyone is going to pick up that mantle of obligation just because they got knocked up is beyond ludicrous, and it’s why CPS and the foster system do such a booming business.

            There was a terribly tragic story all over our local news of a toddler beaten to death by mommy’s boyfriend. That poor child was beaten over many hours before succumbing to his injuries. I’m thinking, really, people? An abortion within the first trimester would have been SO MUCH WORSE than what ultimately transpired, and we KNOW beyond a doubt that 18-month-olds can feel pain? Sure, forced birthers, whatever you say. Like you have any credibility at all.

          • HeilMary1

            Forced birthers salivate over the suffering of unwanted kids.

          • HeilMary1

            And yet if over breeding is so wonderful, why do pretend-celibate child-free nuns and priests get non-breeding passes from the forced birthers? Child-free clergy and pundits like Pat Buchanan and Ann Coulter have no business pushing deadly breeding duties on the rest of us.

          • L-dan

            There are critters that absorb or eat their young if conditions are poor. From a ‘passing the genes along’ standpoint, it’s obvious that young which require care for some portion of development are going to be a drain on the ones providing that care. If that drain is large enough to kill the lot of them, no genes survive. So such behavior makes sense in the “take those resources and survive to reproduce another day,” fashion.

            The only ones for which unlimited reproduction makes sense are the ones with the “overwhelm the odds with lots and lots of offspring” strategy. And in many cases, they exhaust their resources and die soon afterwards.

            We’re on the opposite end of the spectrum–Invest lots of resources in a small number of high-quality offspring. Which means that, even looking at nature, it makes a ton of sense that an individual human would weigh whether they have the resources for reproduction at any given time. Certainly attachment to a fetus or embryo is in no way ‘natural’ in the early stages, since we’ve only developed much knowledge of it fairly recently in our history.

          • King Rat

            Yeah. And I also would not be surprised that spontaneous miscarriages have happened rather frequently throughout human history in times of drought and famine. And if the fetus just happened to make it to birth, they let it die of exposure. Why waste resources on a baby when your very survival depends on feeding the people who can actually gather food?

          • fiona64

            In modern society, it can be more beneficial to help your relative’s offspring.

            Absolutely. There is an anthropological concept called reciprocal altruism that is *exactly this.*

          • Melinda Hampton

            well, i was referring to your comment.

            I just find it hard to believe that ahealth professional could be against vaccines.

          • lady_black

            Um… What are you babbling about? Who is against vaccines? Not me. You can’t find anyone more pro-vaccine than I am.

          • Melinda Hampton

            My sincere apologies. I meant cjvg…and I got you two confused.

          • lady_black

            It’s ok. I confused you with a literate person.

          • King Rat

            We also argue amongst ourselves from time to time since we’re not a monolith

            I don’t think you like kitties *nearly* enough.

            *fisticuffs*

          • L-dan

            That’s claws at 20 paces…or pounces.

      • goatini

        “Hampton” is actually “anilpetra”, posing (and quite poorly, too) as an alleged reproductive justice supporter. S/h/it thinks s/h/it is quite the clever forced-birth mole. Good thing s/h/it is so, so transparent. Go check s/h/it’s posts, you’ll see exactly what I mean.

        • King Rat

          haha

        • expect_resistance

          Thanks for the heads up.

          • goatini

            Go read the troll’s post on the “We Won’t Forget” article. The troll thinks it’s a quite clever forced-birther mole – as if any credible pro-choicer would ever state such nonsense. That post pretty much outed the “Hampton” troll as being another sock of the “anilpetra” troll.

          • Ivy Mike

            They all think they’re geniuses. Dunning-Kruger is a consistent symptom of the religious right.

          • expect_resistance

            Yeah, weird thing to say. Didn’t anilpetra say the same thing? I’ve never heard a pro-choice person say anything like that.

    • expect_resistance

      I disagree. This site covers stories not covered or minimally covered in the mainstream media.

      • goatini

        I agree. Like the stories on criminal Gosnell, which first appeared here in 2010. Of course, all the forced-birth trolls jumped on the bandwagon three years later with their “WHY HAS NO ONE REPORTED ON THIS?” lies.

      • Melinda Hampton

        Well, yeah, I agree. I think sexual health issues are being kind of ignored by the MSM.

        But as far as some of the behavior by other commentors. I mean, take goatini for example – who I’ve never dealt with before. I made some innocent comment how I didn’t agree with Margaret Sanger’s view on eugenics and all of a sudden I’m a “pro-life troll” or something.

        How is that productive?

        • goatini

          “I made some innocent comment”

          Troll misspelled “disingenuous”.

          Troll hasn’t the first factual clue of “Margaret Sanger’s view on eugenics”, and is instead deliberately attempting to catapult the forced-birther lies about this great humanitarian’s legacy – deliberately attempting to taint the FACTS with vicious, vile lying troll BS.

          Troll is also lying because troll “dealt with” me as one of its other socks, “anilpetra”.

          • Melinda Hampton

            Wow, you are rude.

          • goatini

            Nothing “rude” about calling trolls out.

          • expect_resistance

            Exactly.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Truth is an absolute defense to a charge of rudeness.

        • goatini

          “anilpetra” – “Open your wallet, pay for some first world medical care for the underprivileged.” “Who among you has donated even one dollar to Whole Woman’s Health group to upgrade its facilities since the passage of the new law?”

          “Hampton”: “It’s about money. These clinics shut down because people who support them don’t donate enough money. And I’m just as guilty. Unfortunately I’m not financially able and cannot afford to be writing a check right now to show my support. I just wish that some of our more wealthy supporters in Hollywood would help us out a bit more.”

          Same troll, same BS.

          • Melinda Hampton

            I’m advocating for more money for Planned Parenthood, which I personally cannot afford.

            If you think that is BS, then go to hell. I have no need to explain my financial situation to you or anybody.

          • goatini

            Genuine supporters of reproductive justice don’t tout “wealthy supporters in Hollywood” as the proper remedy for illegal gender-based discriminatory actions of vicious misogynist Texas forced-birth politicians.

          • expect_resistance

            No one is asking you to explain your financial situation.

          • Melinda Hampton

            then why are people so upset that i wow that rich people should donate more to planned parenthood?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Because the solution is not quite that simple. Why not address family-planning budget cuts and burdening clinics with unnecessary regulations, meaningless building modifications, admitting privileges, etc.–all of which are designed to close clinics down?

          • Melinda Hampton

            Of course those things are part of the solution. They were already addressed in the article.

            Advocating for more donations is not mutually exclusive with any of that. More money to planned parenthood is not a bad thing and I’m not sure why you’re acting liked it would be.

          • Jennifer Starr

            So you acknowledge that the clinics are not closed down simply because individual people failed to give enough money, is that right? And you agree that the regulations anti-choice legislators have been passing are less about protecting women’s health and more about burdening the clinics until they have to close. Correct?

          • Melinda Hampton

            Is there some confusion about what I just wrote?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Merely asking for further clarification

          • HeilMary1

            Warren Buffet turned the modest investments of a child-free university couple into millions, and when they died, they left most of it to Planned Parenthood. Bill and Melinda Gates donate plenty to family planning. However, such charity is no match for the billions already here and in dire poverty, thanks to the toxic meddling of the RCC/GOP.

          • goatini

            Disingenuous troll is disingenuous

        • Shan

          Is this your first time online? Don’t be such a putz.

          • goatini

            With that bright and shiny all-new trolling account, it’s s/h/it’s “first time”.

          • Melinda Hampton

            I normally just use HuffPost which is now tied to facebook and much more civil since doing so.

            My friend linked this site in one of her FB links although I had seen it before. I didn’t realize people were so mean to people who disagree with them here. I’ll probably never visit here again.

          • King Rat

            Go to Live Action News or Lifesite and pretend to be pro-choice. They will talk down to you and accuse you of being a selfish, bloodthirsty baby killah.

            and then ban you

          • Melinda Hampton

            And that’s why I wouldn’t go there. I never expected that sort of reaction here though, but in fairness, it’s mostly just one commenter in particular that I seemed to have pi–d off.

          • King Rat

            People are on edge because one commenter named fivebyfive has been trolling for weeks.

            We love debate – but some people don’t want to debate – they just want to play games. Which is when some of us get rude

          • Melinda Hampton

            Thanks for the explanation.

          • goatini

            “Hampton” sock is doing nothing but playing games here. Genuine supporters of reproductive justice (1) don’t tout “wealthy supporters in Hollywood” as the proper remedy for illegal gender-based discriminatory actions of vicious misogynist Texas forced-birth politicians, and (2) don’t spew vicious lying nonsense about Margaret Sanger.

          • King Rat

            I have been paying very close attention to everything you have been saying;p

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Yep. Even if you make an effort to be entirely polite. As soon as you are minorly effective, they boot you.

          • goatini

            Calling out forced-birther trolls, especially forced-birther trolls who (poorly and disingenuously) pretend to be pro-choice, is a public service to all those who support reproductive justice, and who support the civil, human and Constitutional rights of female US citizens.

            Genuine supporters of reproductive justice (1) don’t tout “wealthy supporters in Hollywood” as the proper remedy for illegal gender-based discriminatory actions of vicious misogynist Texas forced-birth politicians, and (2) don’t spew vicious lying nonsense about Margaret Sanger.

          • L-dan

            Or go on about how civil HuffPo is thanks to Facebook. That’s kind of mind-boggling.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I will not comment on any site that wants me to register with facebook.

          • King Rat

            I am on FB but I use a pseudonym. Same with my twitter account. I will never go on twitter or FB using my real name. The accounts are there only to interact with certain FB sites and people.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Good idea. I think I will go down to the library and make a facebook page.
            And use a picture of Kali.
            https://www.google.com/search?q=kali&espv=210&es_sm=93&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=nOUeU7fNLKrg0gGaz4G4BQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=675

          • L-dan

            I have a ‘fake’ FB account tied away from even my regular online identity (which is linked to my real ID if anyone digs a bit). It’s mostly for some groups I like to keep up with and I’ve slowly added a person or two who knows me in RL and post things I like keeping up with.

            The fakeness there is mostly because I’m happy *not* having people from high school look me up and check out my interests, etc.

            That said, I mostly won’t comment using it unless it’s on one of the groups I read through FB.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            The door is this way ——————->
            We will not miss you.

          • fiona64

            Sock puppet account … just sayin’ …

        • expect_resistance

          Reproductive justice issues ARE ignored by the mainstream media or blatantly misrepresented or misreported.

          Many of us have been here for years and I’ve known goatini as a poster here for years — I trust her instincts.

  • King Rat

    Parents cannot be forced to donate organs, or risk life and health for born children:

    Curran v Bosze: a father of three wants hid youngest
    sons (whom he does not have custody of) tested to see if they could be
    bone marrow donors for his dying 12 year old. Their mother refused,
    courts sided with the mother. Sue Argabright sued her sons father to
    compel him to donate bone marrow. Bioethicists observing the case all
    said the same thing, that forcing the donation would be the wrong
    decision and set a horrible precedent. Fortunately for the kid, the
    father had a change of heart and volunteered, and the suit was dropped.

    A judge in Washington refused to order a C-section to increase the
    survival chances for the fetus at the expense of the woman’s health. In
    the decision, the judge wrote that since he couldn’t force a mother to
    give a kidney to an already born child, he didn’t see what grounds he
    had to force someone to undergo a C-section.

  • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

    Tough shit, Carly. If you don’t want us to stay focused on reproductive rights, I have a suggestion for you: demand that the GOP not only stop passing anti-choice laws, but also demand the national and state parties to remove all anti-choice language from their party’s platforms. That is not too hard to do.

  • Marlowe53

    Fiorina can flap her jaws but I can read and I can count and more than 1100 bills submitted nationwide by Republicans in two years, aimed at reducing access to birth control, abortion services and equal pay add up to a War Against Women. Shame on her.

    • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

      This woman has been keeping track for awhile.
      http://17atheart.wordpress.com/

    • ThomasER916

      Margaret Sanger was right!

  • TheBrett

    I take Republican anger over the “War on Women” line as a sign that it’s working. They even tacitly admit it themselves with the talks about how they need to make sure their forced-pregnancy candidates don’t embarrass themselves with all kinds of talk about “real rape”.

    • L-dan

      I’ve been noticing that. It’s like every conference has to contain some ‘tactful’ reference to “guys, can you just shut up with the rape references?”

      I mean, they have to know that they’re going to get abortion questions since they’ve made it such a strong plank in their platform lately. If they can’t even think far enough ahead to plan out a few non-horrible responses, how can I trust them running the government anyway?

  • King Rat

    five_by_five

    You only made yourself, and the pro-abort crowd, look like a bunch of psychopaths.

    Now that I’m banned from RHRC (thanks), I’ll spend most of my time linking your blog and RHRC on pro-life sites.

    Have fun with the new commentors.

    You can ban me now. I’m done here.

    10:37 p.m., Monday March 10

    • Ella Warnock

      Aww, poor little butthurt five. Hey, five, u mad bro?

      • King Rat

        I iz laffing.

    • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

      Oh goody. I love forcedbirther trolls. What fun I am going to have. 5×5 is a dork.

    • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

      5×5 posted his threat on my blog as a comment. Same threat. I do not have to be nice there. LMFAO.

      • expect_resistance

        What a freak! I hope you kick its but on your blog.

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          It has not yet come back. None of its friends have either. Although myintx has been there once.

          • fiona64

            Speaking of freakazoids …

          • expect_resistance

            myintx is such a tool. Talk about a broken record.

          • goatini

            Ew. She is a head case.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Has not come back. Good.

    • expect_resistance

      Five is the psychopath and a stalker. Yikes.

      • King Rat

        five_by_five creepy, obsessive, stalkerish, and threatening response has justified shit’s own banning

        All red flag behaviour. And it is not a right, but a privilege,to post on a website. Something shit should know by now, if shit is indeed in shit’s mid-30s. I am still thinking pre-teen, however.

      • HeilMary1

        He’s probably a registered sex offender priest who treats himself to Viagra vacations in Manila.

    • Jennifer Starr

      Kind of a silly threat. Even if s/h/it had friends willing to argue on s/h/it ‘s behalf, the anti-choice sites are already aware of our existence and many of them have been here already. Also kind of silly for it to have this tantrum over being banned, considering that it’s been banned and had posts deleted at just about every board it’s ever been to. What did it expect? Did it really imagine that it would be different this time?

      • King Rat

        five_by_five

        Looks like I got under your skin. Good. Mission accomplished.

        Now I’m off to annoy some more pro-abort baby killers. Toodaloo.

        BTW, who did I happen to mischaracterize?

        1:31 p.m., Tuesday March 11

        • Jennifer Starr

          Where was that posted?

          • King Rat

            Plum’s blog.

        • HeilMary1

          5×5 did get one up-vote here from ljean80. Wasn’t that special?!

    • L-dan

      Elevated sense of own importance, much? check

      Really invested in its ‘right’ to continue posting even when it had long gone past anything but stupid trolling? check

      Projection of psychopathy while displaying all the hallmarks? check

      Good riddance.

    • fiona64

      Yeah, that’s the behavior of a rational human being.

    • P. McCoy

      Hey, I got banned from Life Site News and nearly banned from Catholic herald UK website. I am flattered. This no account is probably the type that writes into Catholic Answers forum website with the ” father why can’t I stop masturbating” questions. Jerusalem can’t think for themselves, need to as a hive mind forum like CAF how to take a c**p, and not let it be an occasion of sin. I find more reasons to loathe these people every day.

  • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

    The grim facts that Forced Birthers do not allow: About 10% of adolescent girls who have sex before age 20 report that it was involuntary. This percentage increases the younger the first intercourse occurs. A sexually active teen who does not use contraception has a 90% chance of becoming pregnant within the first year. – American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology

  • ThomasER916

    I believe all blacks should be aborted. It’s not killing anyone. It’s a right.

    • ansuz

      Believing all Blacks should be aborted: racist.
      Believing we should require all people pregnant with Black zefs to obtain abortions: anti-choice.
      Believing that it’s none of my business who gets an abortion and who doesn’t: pro-choice.
      Believing that if one group obtains abortions at a higher rate than others, we should work to figure out why that is and address those issues to obtain parity: pro-reproductive justice*.

      *simplified, a lot.

      • ThomasER916

        There are no races therefore there are no racists.

        • ansuz

          Does not follow.

          Races can exist in some senses and not others.