Iowa House Passes Telemedicine Abortion Ban


On Tuesday, the Iowa house passed a bill that would ban so-called telemedicine abortions in the state in a 55-42 vote, mostly along party lines.

The bill’s house passage comes three months after an Iowa judge blocked from going into effect a state medical board rule that would have banned the practice.

Filed by state Rep. Matt Windschitl (R-Missouri Valley), HF 2175 would ban the dispensing of medication to terminate a pregnancy “via telecommunications technology.” Abortion providers use telemedicine to provide women who do not live near a provider, many of them in rural areas, access to medication abortion. A physician in a remote location sees and communicates with a patient using video conferencing tools, and the medication is provided at a local clinic.

Erin Davison-Rippey, a Planned Parenthood of the Heartland policy analyst and lobbyist, told RH Reality Check that that telemedicine abortion is safe and effective and expands access to health care for a woman who would otherwise have to travel long distances to see a clinician face-to-face. The same medical protocols used when delivering medication abortion in person are used during telemedicine procedures, she said.

“Since 2008, more than 5,000 Iowa women have accessed medication abortion delivered through telemedicine, with zero serious complications reported,” said Davison-Rippey. “The bottom line is, HF 2175 only makes it more difficult for a woman to access safe, legal care, and every woman deserves to have access to safe health care, regardless of her zip code.”

Anti-choice and conservative organizations have been lobbying to pass HF 2175 during this session. The Iowa Catholic Conference, the Iowa Faith and Freedom Coalition, the Iowa Right to Life Committee, and the Family Leader all support the legislation.

Organizations that oppose the bill include the Iowa Coalition Against Sexual Assault, the League of Women Voters of Iowa, the American Civil Liberties Union of Iowa, the Family Planning Council of Iowa, and Planned Parenthood of the Heartland.

The bill has been introduced and referred to the Senate Human Resources Committee, but with Democrats in control of the senate it will be difficult for Republicans to pass.

When asked about the bill by The Gazette, Senate Majority Leader Mike Gronstal (D-Council Bluffs) said, “We’re going to continue protect women’s rights to effective health care in the state of Iowa.”

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  • Shan

    Just…banned. Just like that. Legislation is usually a bit more wordy and provides some sort of justification or rationale or something, but not this one. Just another round of practicing medicine from the State House.

  • Renee Goodwin

    What if the woman has a tubal pregnancy and needs the medicine asap and there is no non religious hospital or doctor within driving distance?
    They really need to have women or patients (for example husband/partner) sue the politicians that sign bills like this when something bad happens to a women because the state was playing doctor

    • five_by_five

      Uh….if she thinks that she has a tubal pregnancy, she should go to an emergency room ASAP. There are usually doctors there. No, telemedicine needed. In fact, anyone suggesting a woman should just stay home and skype her OBGYN for some meds is an idiot.

      And many Catholic hospitals can, and do, prescribe methotrexate for ectopic pregnancies.

      FYI.

      • cjvg

        No they do not.
        I know you have trouble reading so I grabbed the most pertinent statements from the religious directive that governs the treatment of ectopic pregnancy in catholic hospitals.
        At the bottom is the direct link to the whole directive, enjoy!

        Per religious doctrine: “The Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care Services (the Directives) govern the provision of care in Catholic-affiliated hospitals and prohibit the provision of abortion in almost all circumstances. Religious directives preclude physicians at Catholic hospitals from managing tubal pregnancies with methods and procedures that involve “direct” action (IE ABORTION) against the embryo”

        “Catholic facilities report that medical therapy with methotrexate was not offered because of their hospitals’ religious affiliation”

        “Expectant therapy (treating it like it will go away and become a regular pregnancy) for ectopic pregnancy is perfectly acceptable from a Catholic perspective.”

        “Managing an ectopic pregnancy by means of a total or partial salpingectomy (removing the whole fallopian tube thereby severely reducing the woman’s fertility and her ability to conceive afterwards) is morally acceptable, as shown by applying the principle of double effect”

        “However, the removal of the tube containing the unborn child will end the mother’s fertility if the opposite tube is occluded or surgically absent. This may be the risk the mother needs to take to avoid dying from a ruptured fallopian tube.”

        “I similarly hold that managing ectopic pregnancies by the use of salpingostomy (removing the fertilized egg without removing the fallopian tube and thereby NOT causing or increasing the risk of infertility in the woman) and methotrexate constitutes direct abortion”

        http://r.search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0LEVzSnVwBTg2IAasdXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzNzJvaXY2BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDMyM18x/SIG=120eu7mi3/EXP=1392560167/**http%3a//johnpaulbioethics.org/FinalProofs.pdf
        Ignorance and willfull denial of the truth hurts and kills actuall living breathing women.
        Women are humans that are already born and can feel the pain and despair your ignorance will cause!

        • ghhshirley

          Thank you for that well documented reply.

          • cjvg

            Welcome

        • five_by_five

          Yeah, I expected some anti-Catholic rant from you without telling the whole story (I’m not Catholic before you make that accusation). The whole story is that many Catholic hospitals can and do prescribe methotrexate. I know of this because my cousin went to Good Sam in Suffern, NY for abdominal pain. It was an ectopic pregnancy and was treated w/ methotrexate,

          Also the Catholic Health Association, which has over 600 hospitals in the US, has this to say about ectopic pregnancies:

          “Hence, if some Catholic hospitals have policies that prohibit salpingostomy andthe use of methotrexate, this is not
          because these procedures are forbidden byChurch teaching or by the ERDs. Rather,it is because an individual or individualsdecided either to take the safer course orpersonally believed that salpingostomy and the use of methotrexate constitute direct abortions and are, therefore, inconflict with Directives 48 and 45.
          However, given the on-going debate, it is permissible for Catholic hospitals to employ both the third and fourth approaches [salpingostomy and the use of methotrexate]”

          w w w chausa dot org/docs/default-source/general-files/c6776764f3cc4624a8ea2a31037e9b111-pdf dot pdf?sfvrsn=0

          So, while some hospitals may not choose to use it, like I wrote above, many do. Either way, staying at home during an ectopic pregnancy is about the stupidest thing you can do. Methotrexate or not.

          • cjvg

            FLAT OUT LIE,

            When a catholic hospital prescribes methotrexate to a pregnant women they will be penalized by the council of bishops for NOT following the Directive.

            If a hospital does not follow the Directive they are no longer considered catholic and will be dismissed and will no longer be able to claim the catholic title or tax exemption.

            If anyone working in that hospital prescribes methotrexate to a pregnant woman they will be fired and excommunicated.

            THE ONLY TIME a catholic hospital can prescribe methotrexate

            to a pregnant woman is IF THEY HAVE PROOF THE FETUS IS ALREADY DEAD!
            Please learn to READ and ACTUALLY READ THE DIRECTIVE THAT ALL CATHOLIC HOSPITALS MUST FOLLOW TO REMAIN CATHOLIC

          • five_by_five

            Yeah, I read the directive. And so did the Catholic Health Association. And this is what they had to say:

            ” this is not because these procedures are forbidden by Church teaching or by the ERDs.”

            I don’t know what your confusion is with that sentence. It’s not MY claim. It’s the Catholic Health Association’s claim.

            So deal with it.

            And, bishops don’t govern hospitals. Hospital administrators who listen to the Catholic Health Associations and other groups (including bishops) govern hospitals.

            “will no longer be able to claim the catholic title or tax exemption.”

            Yeah, sure. Since you just made that up…I’m sure you’d have no problem providing proof of that.

            ” fired and excommunicated”

            Interesting. I didn’t know only Catholics could work in Catholic hospitals. I’ll go tell my friend who is Jewish and working in a Catholic hospital. I’d bet he’d like to know.

          • HeilMary1

            Sister McBride was excommunicated by Phoenix Bishop Olmsted for FOLLOWING Catholic rules on emergency abortions, liar. Catholic “simon says” rules trap women, children and gays coming and going.

          • five_by_five

            You mean the Sister McBride who is no longer excommunicated because they admitted they were wrong about her?

            That Sister McBride?

            Please tell the WHOLE story and not the parts that fit your narrative.

          • Mirable

            They had to admit that they were wrong because they were publicly shamed over the entire thing. Bad publicity.

          • five_by_five

            It does change the fact that HeilMary conveniently left out the fact that Sister McBride is not currently excommunicated.

            I wonder why she left that out. Did she think I wouldn’t bother to look up the case?

          • HeilMary1

            Troll, YOU conveniently leave out McBride being excommunicated for FOLLOWING RCC rules “allowing early deliveries” for such deadly pregnancies. Had the fetus been older, it might have survived, but McBride was punished for not knowing pedophile priest-protector Olmsted had moved the goal post! Furthermore, the EARLY DELIVERY of the non-viable fetus could have been avoided if the unhealthy Catholic mother had been allowed sterilization or real contraception. Instead, she was forced to rely on the UNnatural Family Cramming scam pushed by pedophile priests.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Granted I’m not Catholic, but from what I understand, excommunication is rarely intended to be a permanent thing and a person can be ‘recommunicated’, if that’s the right word. The statement from the hospital says that she “met the requirements for reinstatement with the church and she is no longer excommunicated”. It doesn’t state that they think they were wrong to excommunicate her in the first place, though they clearly were. She saved a woman’s life by ending a dangerous pregnancy.

          • L-dan

            Maybe because it’s beside the point?

            What bearing does the fact that she later confessed to sin and was unexcommunicated have on the fact that the church saw her actions (saving the life of the pregnant woman) as so wrong that they excommunicated her over them? They church never went back and said “oh sorry, we were wrong and what you did was appropriate.” Basically, they still believe the correct call was to allow both to die, rather than to save one.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Stop accusing others of bad motives. Return the clairvoyancy helmet to Walmart. It is not working.
            On second thought, do not stop. What you are inadvertently telling us is how YOU operate. You leave things out if they do not suit your purposes. And you do not believe others or trust the motives of others because you yourself are a liar and a sneak.

          • expect_resistance

            You are a pathological liar and have no credibility here.

          • cjvg

            YES PLEASE, do tell the whole story and actually do some research for a change!
            The only reason sister McBride is no longer excommunicated is because of HER OWN ACTIONS to FIX the situation. The church never took any action to reverse their stance!
            She was only readmitted after she CONFESSED HER SIN (of saving a woman’s live) and was forgiven for it.

            The church NEVER admitted they were wrong, neither did the bishop Thomas J. Olmsted, who excommunicated her!
            “Olmsted spoke to McBride privately and she confirmed her participation in the procurement of the abortion, he subsequently excommunicated her (although he does have the power NOT to do so)

            They also took the catholic accredation from the hospital because the hospital refused to promise never to take the same action again if a woman’s live was in danger

            “Olmsted announced that the Roman Catholic Diocese of Phoenix was severing its affiliation with the hospital, after months of discussion had failed to obtain from the hospital management a promise not to perform abortions in the future. “If we are presented with a situation in which a pregnancy threatens a woman’s life, our first priority is to save both patients. If that is not possible, we will always save the life we can save, and that is what we did in this case,” said hospital president Linda Hunt. “Morally, ethically, and legally, we simply cannot stand by and let someone die whose life we might be able to save.”

            “the bishop (Olmsted) said in a May 14 statement that “the direct killing of an unborn child is always immoral, no matter the circumstances, and it cannot be permitted in any institution that claims to be authentically Catholic.”

            “We always must remember that when a difficult medical situation involves a pregnant woman, there are two patients in need of treatment and care, not merely one,” Bishop Olmsted said. “The unborn child’s life is just as sacred as the mother’s life, and neither life can be preferred over the other.”

            “An unborn child is not a disease … the end (saving the mothers life) does not justify the means (aborting a non viable pregnancy),” Olmsted said in a statment issued to a the Arizona Republic newspaper this past May”.

            In other words it is okeydokey if a woman dies because we do not terminate pregnancies!

            the Rev. John Ehrich, medical ethics director for the Diocese of Phoenix, publicly stated that ” “There are some situations where the mother may in fact die along with her child. But – and this is the Catholic perspective – you can’t do evil to bring about good. The end does not justify the means.”
            So when does it justify the means?, Apperently when it is concerning a womans life, never! it is just better to have two deaths then one according to the MEDICAL ETHICS director!

            According to the catholic church and the pope an excommunication is not permanent if the sinner goes to confession and asks for forgiveness for their SIN of saving a woman from dying!

            http://cathstan.org/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=26&ArticleID=3843

            http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126985072

            http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/8639571-418/phoenix-nun-excommunicated-over-abortion-decision-speaks-out.html

            http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Media/church-excommunicates-nun-authorized-emergency-abortion-save-mothers/story?id=10799745

            http://rbc-in-md4.blogspot.com/2010/05/father-john-ehrich-medical-ethics.html

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Thank you. And then the RC Slime did this:
            http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/26/us/colorado-fetus-lawsuit/

            Canon City, Colorado (CNN) — Life begins at conception, according to the Catholic Church, but in a wrongful death suit in Colorado, a Catholic health care company has argued just the opposite.

            A fetus is not legally a person until it is born, the hospital’s lawyers have claimed in its defense. And now it may be up to the state’s Supreme Court to decide.

          • cjvg

            I did notice that particular gem of catholic love and respect for the life of the precious unborn baby (s)

            But hey in that case it was NOT the mothers life that was endangered if the fetus was not protected.

            You know that completely changes the situation, you do not have to protect the life of a fetus at all costs (preferably a woman’s life) if you are not able to kill the woman by denying her an abortion!

            Disgusting hypocrites!

          • HeilMary1

            Harming sexually active women has always been the goal.

          • Shan

            Oh I remember that story! That just blew my mind.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            We have a choice. We can view the RCC as mistaken. Or we can view it as actively evil. I think evidence has long been in that the RCC is actively evil.
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dKdBlKgquw

          • corruptintenz

            …or an incredibly well-studied incompetence.

          • goatini

            Yes, please do, and include all of the misogynist victim-blaming and female shaming engaged in by Bishop Olmstead.

          • expect_resistance

            I see the pathological liar 5×5 is back.

          • cjvg

            I already provided proof, just read the links for once.
            Yeesh how lazy and proud of that fact are you

          • cjvg

            “will no longer be able to claim the catholic title or tax exemption.”

            Already did, but you ignored that! http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/09/opinion/when-bishops-direct-medical-care.html?_r=0
            “In 2010, the Diocese of Phoenix punished a nun and stripped a hospital of its affiliation after doctors there performed an abortion to save a mother’s life.”

            As for your claim ; “Yeah, sure. Since you just made that up…I’m sure you’d have no problem providing proof of that.”

            Ooops what now, you have been proven wrong again!

            And then there is your other claim: ” Yeah, sure. Since you just made that up…I’m sure you’d have no problem providing proof of that.” that bishops and cardinals do not govern hospitals, funny that, FACT a hospital can be stripped of their designation of catholic when not obeying the (bishop/cardinal) religious guidance on medical care (and they are the ONLY ones who can do that) they pretty much do govern them!

            And then there is your other gem of ignorance and deliberate misrepensentation: “Interesting. I didn’t know only Catholics could work in Catholic hospitals. I’ll go tell my friend who is Jewish and working in a Catholic hospital. I’d bet he’d like to know.”
            Really? Show me where I stated that ONLY catholics can work in a catholic hospital?!
            I’m waiting!
            As for the fired part, are you claiming Jews can not be fired?

          • five_by_five

            Ha ha…they didn’t take away their tax exemption you fool.

            You lose.

            “Show me where I stated that ONLY catholics can work in a catholic hospital?!”

            Jewish people cannot people excommunicated from a Catholic church. It doesn’t quite work that way. You said that the employee would be excommunicated.

            Again, you lose.

          • cjvg

            So you are claiming that Jewish people can not be fired?!

            If a religious hospital loses their religious designation they also lose their religious tax exemption since they are no longer religious.
            Do I now have to school you on IRS rulings too, how dumb are you, do you ever read any news at all?!

            You are the laziest most brain dead debater I have ever seen

          • five_by_five

            Being fired isn’t excommunication.

            And being excommunicated doesn’t mean that you lose your religious status. I guess in your mind, only Catholics get religious exemptions?

            Oops…you forgot the other Christians…and billions of people who believe in Allah.

          • cjvg

            A non for profit religious hospital (like ALL catholic hospitals are) Losses its religious tax exemption when it loses its religious designation! LOGIC! and TAX LAW!

            People who are NOT catholic are fired when they do not abide by the religious directives, even if those religious directives are in direct opposition of best medical practiced!

            If you are not catholic you can not be excommunicated from a faith you do not have. Wow, what a revelation for you, fortunately the rest of us was smart enough to make baseless, irrelevant and inane assumptions,

            Also there is the little fact that I never claimed that Jewish people would be excommunicated from a faith they do not have!

            Excommunication has NOTHING to do with losing your religious tax exemption, mainly because only PEOPLE can be excommunicated and PEOPLE do not have religious tax exemptions.

            The Catholic hospital as a religious organization has a religious tax exemption, when they lose their status as a religious hospital because the bishops remove their religious status, they lose that tax exemption.

            I have absolutely NO IDEA why you are blabbering on about other faiths since they are NOT running hospitals in the US that refuse to adhere to best medical practices.

            DO YOU EVER EVEN HAVE ANY KIND OF ARGUMENT THAT CAN NOT BE SO EASILY REFUTED AND PROVEN COMPLETE AND UTTER FABRICATION OF YOUR OWN DELLUSIONS!

            You’re arguments are so inane that I’m just bored refuting them.

          • five_by_five

            “Catholic” isn’t the only tax-free designation. Their losing that title does jack squat from them still claiming their “Christian” tax exemption. You lose.

            “If you are not catholic you can not be excommunicated from a faith you do not have.”

            No shit. That’s what I wrote above.

          • goatini

            A load of BS andecdata.

          • five_by_five

            The quote from the Catholic Health Association is anecdotal?

          • goatini

            I don’t think there is a “health” association with any kind of putative claim to “credibility” that is MORE anecdotal.

            Signed, Catholic woman who’s been there and done that

          • HeilMary1

            You believe them? Padre Pedophile has more holy BS he’d like you to parrot.

          • cjvg

            A woman suffering from pulmonary hypertension can not be allowed to go into labor, the added strain will kill her

          • five_by_five

            Yes, I know.

            What’s your point?

          • expect_resistance

            Nothing you say is credible. You have busted lying over and over again.

          • five_by_five

            And yet you cannot name one lie I’ve told.

            Go ahead..just one. Be specific.

          • expect_resistance

            Everything.

          • five_by_five

            Ha ha…you cannot name a single one.

            Nice try though. That was fun.

          • expect_resistance

            Need I remind you from the previous thread?

            five_by_five • 4 days ago
            Did you ask a question?

            expect_resistance • 4 days ago
            Yes, THIS IS THE QUESTION from my previous post: You’re in high school and you’ve been using the pill for 20 years? Did you start taking the pill at birth?
Furthermore, are you claiming you have 20 years of experience using the pill? 
Let me remind you. From this thread:
five_by_five a day ago 2/12/14
”I’ve been using the pill for 20 years. Yeah, I have some experience. And I at least know that if you skip a dose, it’s risky to have unprotected sex because the risk of pregnancy increases dramatically.”
my response, “expect_resistance a day ago 2/12/14
You’re in high school and you’ve been using the pill for 20 years? Did you start taking the pill at birth?”


            five_by_five • 4 days ago
            Yes, because when I stated I was in high school and had downs syndrome, I was totally being serious.


            expect_resistance • 4 days ago
            You keep changing your story. Are you in high school or seventh grade? You say you have 20 years of experience using the pill. Have you been sexually active for 20 years? If not, then what do you mean by “Yeah, I have some experience. And I at least know that if you skip a dose, it’s risky to have unprotected sex because the risk of pregnancy increases dramatically.” You say this as if you’ve had sex. It sounds like if you are a vulnerable adult and have been sexually active for 20 years. If this is the case if sounds like you are being sexually abused. Is that the case? Maybe RH Reality Check should check your IP address and inform the authorities. Really, do you need help?


            five_by_five • 4 days ago
            Actually, yesterday I failed a test and they sent me back a grade. I’m now in middle school. I’m totally serious. You’d better call the authorities.


            expect_resistance • 4 days ago
            Could you clarify? If you started taking the pill at an early age of 12, add 20 years of taking the pill, and you are 32? Or around 32ish? You are telling me you’re in middle school?


            
five_by_five • 4 days ago
No, actually I just got off the phone with the principal of the school. They didn’t want me so they are demoting me to elementary school. Can you believe this? I’m never going to get to college at this rate.


            ive_by_five • 4 days ago
            That’s great you’re getting help.

five_by_five expect_resistance • 4 days ago
            Oh and hey. My principal also told me that the word “gullible” was removed from the dictionary this year. Amazing.

          • five_by_five

            Oh, you took that seriously? Hmm…I thought you were smarter than that.

            I guess you probably think Mirable writing about how she eats fetuses on this thread is being serious too.

            (do you really want to admit to everyone that you couldn’t understand my middle school story wasn’t real? because that would just make you look really, really dumb….just saying)

          • Mirable

            I am completely serious. Just as you are 100% serious that all of the women here are violent sociopaths…right?

          • five_by_five

            Not all women here are sociopaths. Just cjvg.

            You though…I like. You’re my friend.

          • Mirable

            Why just cjvg? A majority of the others also wouldn’t blink about a DS abortion.

            What makes cjvg a sociopath?

          • cjvg

            Wow, now you are diagnosing mental illnesses without a medical license and over the internet ?!

          • expect_resistance

            five_by_five 2/13/14 (from the thread “Sorry, Anti-Choicers. Abortion Stigma Doesn’t Lower the Abortion Rate”)
            Start quote – “I’ve been using the pill for 20 years. Yeah, I have some experience.
            And I at least know that if you skip a dose, it’s risky to have unprotected sex because the risk of pregnancy increases dramatically.
            Either L-dan did not know that, or ignored it.
            It’s interesting that you think that bringing up the facts is shaming and belittling her.” end quote –

            You lie and pretend to be someone you’re not while claiming to have an authority on your position.

          • Mirable

            Oh, you took that seriously? Hmm…I thought you were smarter than that.

            Here’s the thing…

            1) omfg you want to murder DS people you evil sociopath

            2) omfg you love Gosnell you evil sociopath

            3) women have abortions because they are stupid, lazy and luv to kill DS people

            Uh, this, so far, is the, dare I say, extent of your debating capabilities. Sounds like what a middle schooler would come up with, cupcake.

          • cjvg

            A lie is a lie whatever hidden reasons you have for them they are still lies.

            Real upstanding human being you are for trying to vilify someone for actually taking you at face value! Only dirt bags suspect everyone of lying all the time because they do nothing else themselves.

            You owe her an apology for smearing her with your filthy and suspicions and then accusing her of stupidity if she is to nice a person

          • five_by_five

            “A lie is a lie whatever hidden reasons….”

            Mirable eats fetuses. Unless she was lying of course.

            You must hate Mirable for being such a dirty liar….like me.

          • cjvg

            Nice try little troll

            Mirabel has continuously made clear that she is responding to your accusations of such behavior in the affirmative to show you how silly and immature you are.

            Mirabel is NOT demeaning and berating you for taking anyone’s words about their personal circumstances at face value

          • five_by_five

            Hey, you were the one apparently too dumb to realize that I wasn’t in elementary school.

            That’s on you for not being able to figure that one out.

          • cjvg

            Again with the incessant lying, do you ever get tired of it?

            Never said anywhere I believed you, never made one single comment on your personal status or claims.

            I do not need to engage you on your personal circumstances I only debate the facts of the issue, something you clearly are not capable off!

            Go away, you bore me, come back when you have some real arguments or actual facts instead of relying on innuendo and deliberate making false interpretations

        • fiona64

          Our resident teen troll seems to think that ER docs do not contact the OB/GYN on-call in the case of suspected ectopic pregnancy … and to believe that the best way to preserve the woman’s fertility in the event of ectopic pregnancy is methotrexate, as opposed to salpingectomy.

          • five_by_five

            “seems to think that ER docs do not contact the OB/GYN on-call in the case of suspected ectopic pregnancy”

            When did I write that? Of course they call the OBGYN.

            I’m not really sure what your second point is. The best way to preserve fertility s/p ectopic pregnancy IS use of methotrexate.

          • goatini

            And Catholic hospitals, as a rule, do not care about preserving fertility in ectopic pregnancies. I’m Catholic. It’s a fact.

          • HeilMary1

            Catholic hospitals only care about “preserving fertility” when a done-with-childbearing middle-aged woman gets stuck with her cancerous uterus because she “may have more kids”!

          • Renee Goodwin

            I didn’t know this at the time, since it was pre-internet, but my last child was born when I was in my 30′s and it was a difficult pregnancy, so I had decided to have my tubes tied right after delivery since it is one of the easier times to have it done from a medical standpoint, well they did the whole write a letter justifying why you want to do this, and submit the paperwork 30 days in advance, I did all of that, but after my daughter was born, they didn’t do the tubal ligation right away, and I had to wait 3 days to have it done. They of course didn’t tell me why, so it took years for me to figure out that the ob/gyn in the delivery room was probably either catholic or some other form of forced birther, so I had to have a more difficult operation three days later, and this was after the song and dance in the delivery room that they didn’t have my paperwork/that I hadn’t submitted it, and I basically threw a fit and said of course I did all the paperwork, so they hemmed and hawed and said “well, we can’t do it right now” I guess they didn’t want to tell me that the ob/gyn that delivered my last child had refused to do the surgery.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            “The best way to preserve fertility s/p ectopic pregnancy IS use of methotrexate.”

            ………..
            You are a physician?

          • five_by_five

            “You are a physician?”

            Nope.

            But are you denying that preserve fertility s/p ectopic pregnancy IS use of methotrexate?

            Jesus fvcking Christ. Are you really going to go against anything I write?

            Hey hey…..the Earth isn’t flat. Go…

          • cjvg

            This one is seriously starting to annoy me with its careless disregard of reality and constant moving of the goal posts when proven wrong

      • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

        ACLU Sues Bishops on Behalf of Pregnant Woman Denied Care at Catholic Hospital

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        Suit Claims Religious Directives Put Women’s Health at Risk

        December 2, 2013

        CONTACT: 212-549-2666; media@aclu.org

        NEW YORK and DETROIT— The American Civil Liberties Union and the ACLU of Michigan have filed a lawsuit on behalf of a pregnant woman who miscarried and was denied appropriate medical treatment because the only hospital in her county is required to abide by religious directives. The directives, written by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, prohibited that hospital from complying with the applicable standard of care in this case.

        Tamesha Means rushed to Mercy Health Partners in Muskegon, Michigan, when her water broke after only 18 weeks of pregnancy. Based on the bishops’ religious directives, the hospital sent her home twice even though Means was in excruciating pain; there was virtually no chance that her pregnancy could survive, and continuing the pregnancy posed significant risks to her health.

        Because of its Catholic affiliation and binding directives, the hospital told Means that there was nothing it could do and did not tell Means that terminating her pregnancy was an option and the safest course for her condition. When Means returned to the hospital a third time in extreme distress and with an infection, the hospital, once again prepared to send her home. While staff prepared her discharge paperwork, she began to deliver. Only then did the hospital begin tending to Means’ miscarriage.

        “They never offered me any options,” said Means. “They didn’t tell me what was happening to my body. Whatever was going on with me, they discussed it amongst themselves. I was just left to wonder, what’s going to happen to me?”

        Catholic-sponsored hospitals are required to adhere to the Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care Services. The directives prohibit a pre-viability pregnancy termination, even when there is little or no chance that the fetus will survive, and the life or health of a pregnant woman is at risk. They also direct health care providers not to inform patients about alternatives inconsistent with those directives, even when those alternatives are the best option for the patient’s health. The lawsuit charges that, because of the directives, the USCCB is ultimately responsible for the unnecessary trauma and harm that Means and other pregnant women in similar situations have experienced at Catholic-sponsored hospitals.

        “The best interests of the patient must always come first and this fundamental ethic is central to the medical profession,” said Kary Moss, executive director of the ACLU of Michigan. “In this case, a young woman in a crisis situation was put at risk because religious directives were allowed to interfere with her medical care. Patients should not be forced to suffer because of a hospital’s religious affiliation.”

        Because she received neither the information nor the care appropriate for her condition, Means was unable to direct her course of treatment and suffered unnecessarily. Her story is not unique. Research, including that of Lori R. Freedman, PhD, and Debra B. Stulberg, MD, recounts other stories of patients being denied information and appropriate care at hospitals bound by the bishops’ directives.

        “A pregnant woman who goes to the hospital seeking medical care has the right to expect that the hospital’s first priority will be to provide her appropriate care,” said Louise Melling, deputy legal director of the ACLU. “Medical decisions should not be hamstrung by religious directives.”

        • five_by_five

          You know that has nothing to do with ectopic pregnancies, right?

          • cjvg

            You know that they were both non viable pregnancies that are treated in the exact same way because that is what the Directives of a catholic hospital dictate?!

            NO, you don’t know that?
            Imagine my surprise!

          • five_by_five

            You don’t treat a 18-week miscarriage with methotrexate fool.

          • Shan

            You get a lot of posts deleted for name-calling. Just thought I’d let you know in case you’re interested in having a grown-up discussion. If not, then continue to flame away.

          • five_by_five

            I have name called very seldom. Most of the posts that were deleted were because the mods couldn’t handle the truth be explained on this website. I mean….look above. I posted a direct quote from the Catholic Health Association and still, people call me a liar. Oh well.

            And why haven’t HeilMary’s posts been deleted? She’s posted about 50 things calling me “mother killer” and “stupid” and “liar”….oh, that’s right….she’s pro-abortion so it’s cool.

            If I called you a hypocrite, would that be “name-calling?”

          • Shan

            If you call my argument hypocritical and explain why, no, I wouldn’t consider that name-calling.

          • Shan

            And if HeilMary’s posts haven’t been deleted, maybe that’s because they haven’t been flagged. Which, as I understand it, is what gets posts deleted. Being “pro-abortion” doesn’t give a poster an automatic pass.

          • Ella Warnock

            HeilMary’s posts aren’t deleted because she’s a regular, well-known and well-loved participant on RH. You are free to ignore her with all prejudice, so exercise that freedom.

          • HeilMary1

            Actually, my PTSD has gotten me deleted here at least a few times because this site PLAYS FAIR.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I do not care if all she posts is “fuck de fuck de fucking fuck you fucker.” I want to hear what she has to say.
            I want nothing from the 5 person.

          • Ella Warnock

            Agreed.

          • goatini

            The so-called “Catholic Health Association” is NOT a credible source. The Roman Catholic Church has sponsored institutional gender apartheid against females for millennia. Catholic “healthcare” is well known for depraved indifference to females as full human beings.

          • five_by_five

            Your opinion of the Catholic Health Association is inconsequential.

            They run over 600 hospitals and 1400 long term care facilities. And their opinion on the matter of methotrexate use is quoted above.

          • goatini

            The Catholic “healthcare” system actively practices gender apartheid and actively harms female patients.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Our opinion, group and individual, put a big hold on the large number of mergers of secular and RC hospitals that began in 1998.

            Our opinions caused the ACLU to sue the UCCB for promulgating religious standards for their hospitals that ignore standard of care protocol.

            Our opinions and experiences resulted in action by the Women’s Law Center.

            We have blood in the argument. You have hubris and self righteousness in the argument. Your argument is snotty and it suffers from logical fallacies:
            argumentum ad populum
            argument from authority

          • five_by_five

            Here’s something you may or may not know.

            The UCCB and CHA don’t always agree with one another.

          • goatini

            Regarding our HM: If you support forced-birth, then you support the needless deaths of women forced to gestate to term against their will – because there WILL be needless deaths under forced-birth despotism. If you oppose the civil, human and Constitutional rights of female US citizens to the guarantees of the protections of the Due Process clause of the 14th Amendment, then it is fair for someone to call you “stupid”, though I might choose different words. And you’ve told countless lies about justice in reproductive health care in your stay here. So what was that about HM again???

          • five_by_five

            Which lies have I told?

            Be specific. This, I’d love to hear.

          • HeilMary1

            You pretended you were a basement-dwelling teen, then slipped up and claimed to be using the Pill for the past 20 years.

          • fiona64

            No, it’s still a basement dwelling teen; it only pretended to be a pill user.

          • HeilMary1

            No compliment entended, but her attitude and language seem more adult.

          • Jennifer Starr

            My guess is either older teen or college student. And He/she/it has terrible taste in movie characters.

          • five_by_five

            Yes, because I was obviously being serious when I stated that I was in an 18-year old who was in elementary school and I had downs syndrome.

            I mean, that was totally believable. Who wouldn’t believe that?

          • HeilMary1

            Don’t insult people with DS.

          • five_by_five

            You’re right. Killing them is better. Yeah abortion!!!

            I mean, that’s what this is all about, right? The right to kill all the DS fetuses before they become an inconvenience.

          • Shan

            Where did you get THAT nonsense from?

          • five_by_five

            So you’re against eliminating DS fetuses through abortion?

            Huh, I would have never guessed that.

          • Shan

            How else would a fetus be terminated but through abortion?

            What I meant was that nobody in this discussion said anything about aborting because of Downs. You’re just trying to be inflammatory by putting words in Mary’s mouth.

          • five_by_five

            Oh, so you ARE for eliminating down syndrome fetuses.

            I’m glad we got that all sorted out.

          • Mirable
          • expect_resistance

            With BBQ sauce. Good eaten. Yum.

          • Shan

            Now, see, you’re not learning. You’re still being inflammatory. I never said any such thing.

          • Mirable

            Make fun of it. It’s an idiot. Humour.

          • five_by_five

            You spelled “humour” wrong.

          • Mirable

            British spelling, dumbass.

            Anyways, this distracts from your fave topic: how we at RHRC want to kill and eat DS feti.

          • five_by_five

            Oh, are you British? I didn’t know. Sorry.

          • Mirable

            Did you know that people are forced to abort and then eat DS feti in the UK?

            that’s socialism for ya!

            you must be really angry!

          • Ella Warnock

            Fat Bastard is Scottish, and he eats beh-behs all the time.

          • Mirable

            Typical European libruhl.

          • Ella Warnock

            Feckin Eurotrash.

          • Renee Goodwin

            4×4 is probably just jealous. I didn’t get to eat an feti when I was in the UK, but I did learn that afternoon tea is a delightful way to break up the work/school day

          • R0chambeau

            Not that this is really the topic, but if you live in the United States, it’s usually pretentious assholes use the British spelling or words like “bonnet” instead of “hood.” Just saying….

            But if you are English, then go right ahead.

            I guess I’m saying…don’t be that guy…or girl. :)

          • Mirable

            Canadian. And we learn the Queen’s English in school:P

          • Mirable

            Actually, we learn:

            neighbour
            colour
            humour

            Those spellings. However, we do not use ‘bonnet’ or ‘lift’ or ‘loo’ to refer to the hood, the elevator or the bathroom, respectively:P

          • L-dan

            LIke we’re anywhere close to the original topic at this point anyway. :p

            I’ve given up remembering which gray/grey is proper and just use them interchangeably. Now if I use ‘theatre’ I’m absolutely aiming to sound pretentious.

          • Mirable

            I do..

            centre
            theatre
            practise

            It’s just a habit. Annoying, however, how spell check always flags the words as wrong:P

          • Renee Goodwin

            LOL, I had never noticed that I used color/colour interchangeably until someone accused me of misspelling “colour” so I looked it up and figured out that both are correct spellings

          • cjvg

            Or they are people who have been taught English first and automatically use the correct spelling they were taught!

          • Renee Goodwin

            It’s also not uncommon for people that read quite a bit of British fiction or have attended school in England to mix up their spellings.
            I’m visual by nature, so seeing a word spelled a certain way in books or written on the board by a teacher tends to fix the spelling as correct in my mind

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I like British slang and colloquialisms. So I use them sometimes. I also use British spelling for artistic effect. I always write “theatre.” I did not know I was a pretentious asshole. And I do not care. I will go on saying “Bugger off” to my heart’s content.

          • Jennifer Starr

            No. That’s a different spelling, not a wrong spelling.

          • five_by_five

            Oh, you’re British as well? Cool.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Yeah, I’m actually kind of embarrassed for you that you don’t know that there are different spellings. It’s pretty pitiful to get to your age and not know these things. And no, not British. I’m from Virginia.

          • five_by_five

            “Look, look everybody. I’m writing with British English even though I’m not British because I’m a pompous ass.” –Jennifer Starrm from Virgina, in the United States.

            The funny thing is that you upvoted Rochambeau’s comment about Americans who use British English being “pretentious assholes.”

            I guess that means that you think Mirable is a pretentious asshole.

          • Mirable

            I am a fetus eating asshole. Get it right. Cue righteous indignation. You are sooo good at it after all! Such depth! Such emotion! You could be the next Michelle Bachmann!

          • Jennifer Starr

            I don’t recall using British spellings in any of my posts, but I’m not so stupid as to think the word is misspelled. And Mirable is Canadian. They use different spellings as well–or aren’t you aware of that either?

          • five_by_five

            If she’s Canadian, then why does she care about an abortion law in the United States?

            (and FYI, I never suggested that other countries don’t spell their words differently. I’m sorry that I assumed she was an American since she is commenting on a site about US abortion laws).

          • Mirable

            Take a wild guess.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Well we’ve also had anti-choicers from other countries, including the UK, who seem to be awfully concerned with our policies in the US despite the fact that they don’t live here.

          • Shan

            “then why does she care about an abortion law in the United States?”

            You don’t care about laws affecting human rights in other countries?

          • Mirable

            “British” is a british spelling, sweetie.

            .

            :pp

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Nah, you are the only pretentious asshole here. And you are good at it.

          • Renee Goodwin

            I occasionally still get confused about some spellings, for example, grey/gray, color/colour, I read a couple of books a week, and since I learn most of my spelling and sentence structure from seeing words in use, my mind doesn’t see the various spellings as any sort of error

          • five_by_five

            Well, either you’re for it or against it. Based on your record, you’re for eliminating DS fetuses with abortion.

            And unless you state explicitly to the contrary, then I’m going to assume I’m correct.

            toodalooo….

          • Mirable

            She will be eating them soon. Just give her some time.

          • Shan

            Uh-oh. It’s heading for teatime here and I’m getting peckish!

            I used to live in the UK so I parlay the lingo, luv. ;-)

          • Jennifer Starr

            I spent the summer there taking courses when I was in college :)

          • Shan

            I had a BABY there! Well, I actually had two but I only brought one home to the US because I ATE THE OTHER ONE!

          • Mirable
          • Shan

            Huh, I wonder why you can post links but I can’t? I have to put spaces in the URL to get the posts to show up.

          • Mirable

            Because I’ve been around a while, and my links are automatically approved. Yours still get caught in the spam filter. if I was to delete this acct and use a new one, that account would then get caught in the filter.

          • Shan

            Ah. I’m a noob.

          • Mirable

            If you eat at least 100 DS feti, you will get a ‘gold’ account, and then you can post links too!

            It works kind of like a Subway card:P

          • Shan

            Dangit. You made me snort.

          • Mirable

            You made me LOL out loud when you confessed to eating one of your baybeez:)

          • Shan

            I couldn’t eat them now, they’re too big. One of them is a 6’3″ 225lb offensive lineman. Well he was, until football season ended.

          • Mirable

            Never say never!

          • Shan

            Nah, they get kind of stringy after they’re born.

          • Mirable

            Besides, if he isn’t DS, he won’t be as nutritious.

          • HeilMary1

            Remember the Donner Party!

          • HeilMary1

            LOL!

          • Mirable

            How enraging! I wonder if 5×5 will point out how callous and hateful you are!

            http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_p0M9IDN4_TM/THaJxAFUSKI/AAAAAAAABdo/GJjraI6Aulk/s1600/outrageous.jpg

          • Renee Goodwin

            Only because Shan won’t share with 4 x 4

          • Jennifer Starr

            I’m for allowing pregnancy decisions to be made by the woman who’s actually pregnant. Her reasons are none of my concern.

          • five_by_five

            So you support the women who went to have late term “abortions” at Gosnell’s clinic.

            Interesting.

          • Mirable

            Oh look, it’s not like you’re trolling at all!

            I find it amusing that your entire reason for posting here is to troll, yet you flag other people for posts that ‘offend’ you

            lulz

          • Jennifer Starr

            Late term abortions are for severe fetal anomalies or to save the life and health of the mother. I support women being able to get these safely, without having to go to a criminal butcher like Gosnell.

          • five_by_five

            Interesting…the women who went to Gosnell for late term abortions did NOT go there for fetal abnormalities. They went there for elective abortions despite there being plenty of opportunity in Philadelphia for them to get an abortion earlier.

          • Mirable

            They went there to eat baybeez.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            And get their drugs. Sort of one stop shopping. I heard Gosnell gave door prizes too. And little take out boxes for the fetal remains. In case you needed a little nosh that night.

          • HeilMary1

            Liar, Gosnell’s patients were desperate low-income women, and many were undocumented immigrants afraid of the more mainstream clinics.

          • goatini

            Thanks for proving that you know ZERO about criminal Gosnell. But you can research it all here, since RHRC has been publicizing that criminal and his criminal acts since 2010.

          • HeilMary1

            You support social Darwinism against the disabled.

          • goatini

            We support safe, legal pregnancy termination, and we support the civil, human and Constitutional rights of female US citizens to be protected in doing so.

            Criminal Gosnell was neither safe nor legal. Bullies like you are part of the misogynist mob that makes the acts of such criminals possible.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I want to know more about them. I want to understand how and why. I am upset we have not heard more from them and about them.

            I do support them. I want to understand. I want to fix it so nothing like that ever happens in my city again.

            My 16 year old Sister took quinine to abort when abortion was illegal and we were young and dumb. She almost died. We got picked up by the cops and interrogated. The quinine worked. She aborted into the toilet at home. Never got a stitch of medical care. So I truly get the desperation.

            My Sister had seen what happened to me when I “chose life.” So now way she was going to repeat my mistake. It was a horror show for women when abortion and contraception were illegal and unavailable. We will never go back.

          • Shan

            Seriously? Trying to bully an answer now?

          • five_by_five

            You don’t have to answer. That’s quite alright.

            I already know what your stance is by your refusal to answer.

          • Mirable

            Her stance = eating DS baybeez, with tea

          • Shan

            No, you have no idea what my stance is. You don’t know anything about me or my pregnancy experiences, which I am NOT going to discuss with you because it’s none of your business.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I am for elimination of any Downs fetus of my own. I have no opinion about other women’s fetuses. I am pro choice. Duh.

          • lady_black

            I would be for it if it were my pregnancy. I have other kids to think about. I have no right to say what any other woman might do. That’s HER CHOICE. Get it?

          • cjvg

            Or she is pro-choice as in leaving the choice to carry to term or abort up to the person who will actually live with the consequences!
            CHOICE, look it up!

          • Mirable

            I’d crawl over 50 good pussies to kill a DS fetus.

          • five_by_five

            flagged

          • Mirable

            Awww. And here it is I thought the post would make you happy. We are finally admitting our evil plan to kill eat and sex up DS feti!

          • expect_resistance

            Boo hoo. Can’t take the heat…….

          • Ella Warnock

            Oooo, Mirable, you’ve been fl . . . fla . . . FLAGGED!

          • Shan

            Come on, that’s gross.

          • Mirable

            That’s the point.

          • five_by_five

            Mirable is a classy broad. She’s from Great Britain or something, ya know.

          • Mirable

            And you’re boring.

          • Mirable

            And what would you know about class? Miss/Mr I can’t top stalking about people killing DS feti because I don’t actually have an argument.

          • Jennifer Starr

            And you’ve clearly never been anywhere.

          • expect_resistance

            You’re a pathological lair.

          • goatini

            ^^ The rabid spewings of a sociopathic misogynist oaf ^^

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Make excellent Pate. Poach, mince, pour melted butter with a bit of cayenne over it, bit of sherry. Keeps well. Now that is good eatling.

          • Mirable

            I knew you’d get it, Plum:P

          • HeilMary1

            You’d starve and bully a DS child to death after you first killed his/her mother by forcing her to complete that deadly pregnancy. You Nazis think you’re so merciful.

          • Tanya Nguyễn

            If you really care, it is the right of a family to decide how to spend limited resources, before a life is brought into existence.

            I am 45. My husband and i have long discussed that if i get pregnant now, and if the child has Downs, we will abort it. there are already too many people in this world (the reason we haven’t had kids in the first place). It is our belief that it is morally and ethically wrong to bring a downs child into the world.

            You may not share that opinion. but it’s not about “killing them before they become an inconvenience”, it’s about aborting them before they become people. Same with ALL abortions.

          • five_by_five

            I wonder if you’d feel comfortable looking a person with Downs in the eyes and telling them your nuanced opinion of how they don’t quite live up to your criteria of being good enough since there are “too many people in this world” but a non-Downs kid would be A-OK.

            Wow.

          • Mirable

            Nah. The motto here is ‘Look a DS in the eyes and cannibalize’

            duh!

            I thought you’d have figured that out by now.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Wait until they or their parents need government aid or educational resources–and the ‘caring’ that five_by_five claims to have will go right out the window.

          • Mirable

            In countries without a social safety net, disabled children are either killed through infanticide, thrown out onto the street, or sent to a hellhole orphanage where they will stay until they die.

          • HeilMary1

            5×5 probably terrorizes the local disabled kids just for jollies.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Probably. I see no indication of sanity or compassion. Just a lot of whining, shaming, blaming and lying.

          • Shan

            This is why I didn’t answer your question. Because I didn’t trust you not to respond like an inconsiderate, arrogant, immature, know-it-all git.

            And also because you remind me of my son, who goes “MOM MOM MOM MOM MOM!!!!” even after I’ve told him to back off and give me some space.

          • Mirable

            Git is a great word.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Tanya’s pregnancy would be between Tanya and her husband, and none of your concern. And we know that you don’t actually give a damn about disabled children–you just use them as an anti-choice prop and talking point.

          • cjvg

            YES I do

          • five_by_five

            Yikes. You’re quite the sociopath.

            No, really. That’s kind of scary that you’d tell a person with downs that they aren’t good enough to their face.

          • Mirable

            Uhm…where’s the love for me, cupcake? I said I’d look a DS in the eye and cannibalize!

            I even showed you a pot of chianti!

            Where’s the outrage? Can’t you at least give me a lil love? Call me a psycho? Pweeeze?

          • cjvg

            You can not just start the eating (raw or cooked?) you have to first tell them to their face you would abort them (remember do this before eating them) to get a real genuine diagnosis of mental disease from a 5by5

            So you recommend red wine with some DS dinner ?
            I figure I might just as well add some cannibalism to my 5by5 diagnosed personality faults, I hear it goes well with sociopathic tendencies and wine

          • Renee Goodwin

            Wouldn’t it be white wine with feti?

          • cjvg

            I’m not sure.
            It all depends on if it is white or red meat, I’m not done cooking yet.
            However I’m partial to a nice red cabernet sauvignon or maybe a sweet bubbly red dessert wine like rosa regale

          • Renee Goodwin

            I love me some rosa regale, but it doesn’t age well

          • cjvg

            No it does not, perfect isn’t it
            Great excuse to finish the bottle.

          • goatini

            The sociopath here would be the one who wants to strip female US citizens of their civil, human and Constitutional rights.

          • cjvg

            I stand by my opinions, interesting that you consider that a sociopathic tendency!
            Apparently you are not aware that sociopaths in general do NOT express opinions that get them disliked, that interferes with their manipulation of the people around them.
            Also interesting that you consistently have to resort to deliberate and very transparent misinterpretations of what was actually said, so you can maintain your apparent need for morally superiority
            I do not gossip and talk about people behind their back, I’m perfectly content to defend and express my opinion to anyone when asked to do so.

          • HeilMary1

            Sociopath YOU would shoot the Jamie above just for playing loud music.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            My best friend had a Downs son named Jamie. I lived with her and Jamie for awhile.

            Jamie tried to have sex with my 5 year old daughter. He also performed a sexual act on another friends son. He apologized to me and he was truly sorry but he has no idea why he is supposed to be sorry. And probably no ability not to do it again. He is like any human a sexual being.

            He has serious skeletal problems and requires a lot of medical care. He has to be reminded not to masturbate in public. He has a sweet personality. He costs the state of NJ 60K to keep him in a group home in Vermont. He cannot work. I like Jamie. His Mother loved him.

            Watching my friend deal with the reality of a DS child convinced me to abort if my pregnancies at 43 and 45 had been DS fetuses.

            I do not care if you do not like that, TurdLips. I have a disability of my own that makes me completely unsuitable to be a Mother. Somehow my beautiful daughters turned into good human beings.

            I have been reading lots of your fantasies. Now you get one of mine. Given your act on this board, I would be thrilled to rip your berries off, nail your twig to my front door, and urinate on your bleeding spasming body. In a Quakerly fashion, of course.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Quote: I mean, that’s what this is all about, right? The right to kill all the DS fetuses before they become an inconvenience.
            …………..
            LIE.
            And it is a typical lie you tell in nearly every post. We are not expressing carefully considered needs and wants. We are not Mothers of loved children. Nope. We are depraved killers who kill so we won’t have to break so much as a nail.

            This is a delusion you express constantly, that you know our “real” motives. In itself, this is a symptom of mental illness. So you are (pick one or both):
            1. a LIAR
            2. a crazy person.

          • five_by_five

            So let’s get this clear.

            You don’t think the abortion of a DS fetus is a matter of convenience?

          • Renee Goodwin

            Anyone that read your posts so far would have no trouble believing that you are exactly as you claimed, in your own words “an 18-year old who was in elementary school and I had downs syndrome”

          • five_by_five

            Only if you are really that gullible.

            Oh wait, I don’t think gullible is a word anymore. They took it out of the dictionary.

          • goatini

            Let’s start with the FACT that no babies, infants, or children have ever been harmed in any way whatsoever in a safe, legal pregnancy termination. You’ve intentionally spread deliberately deceptive falsehoods on that topic.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Oh waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! We like Heil Mary. We do not like you. Cry me a river.

          • HeilMary1

            5×5 keeps changing her own “bio” from “basement teen” to “savvy adult long-time BC pill user”.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            It is kind of fun to play with. Mean little sucker.

          • HeilMary1

            Some of my posts have indeed been deleted because I crossed some lines, but you’re too full of self-serving denial and dishonesty to notice. And keep in mind that Catholic “health care” is an oxymoron and its stated policies are masters of self-serving, patient-harming duplicity.

          • Jennifer Starr

            It’s amazing to me how you’ve gone out of your way to make yourself thoroughly unlikable and then you complain that no one likes you.

          • five_by_five

            It’s not that people don’t like me on here. I understand that. You will dislike any person that opposes any form of abortion restriction – regardless how much the rest of society supports it.

            The problem is the mods have deleted comments of mine simply because they did not like facts. Yes, some of my comments were deleted because I called people names and probably rightly so. But that’s not the case with most.

          • HeilMary1

            What truth? — your harmful distortions don’t qualify for anything other than attempted medical MALPRACTICE without a license.

          • five_by_five

            Ha ha. I’ve been wrong exactly once on the numerous comments that I’ve posted here.

            And that was my misreading a comment about pulmonary hypertension and thinking it was gestational hypertension. The thing is….I admitted I was wrong. I owned up to it.

            When have you ever admitted that you were wrong oh infallible one?

          • HeilMary1

            Troll, you’re wrong on everything else.

          • five_by_five

            Name one thing. I challenge you.

            Be specific.

          • Mirable

            Well you’re right about the fact that we all eat DS feti. With gusto!

            It must feel great to be so insightful, Sherlock!

          • expect_resistance

            More lies. I challenge you to lie harder.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Every time you asserted that women here have ulterior motives and are not honest YOU LIED.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Translation of 5×5 post:

            I am RIGHT. It is obvious I am right. I am RIGHT today. I will RIGHT tomorrow. I am RIGHT now. I will always be right.

            It is annoying that you women cannot see that. So go ahead and die because I do not care WHAT YOU WANT or WHAT YOU SAY YOU NEED.

            Because I am RIGHT. And because you are mean to me. And mean to babies. And I am RIGHT.

            I think that about covers it.

          • Mirable

            It’s not that we don’t dislike you. I enjoy a good troll. But you’re an idiot with only two modes of ‘troll’:

            1) Down Syndrome

            2) Gosnell

            http://hd.wallpaperswide.com/thumbs/sleeping_kitty-t2.jpg

          • expect_resistance

            Sounds like you have a persecution complex.

          • goatini

            We speak out against vicious misogynists that actively desire to strip female US citizens of their civil, human and Constitutional rights, rendering females to be nothing more than chattel breeding property livestock.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Oh whaaaaah! You are so mean to me. And I am so right. So RIGHT.

          • cjvg

            I do not dislike or like you, on a personal level you are pretty much irrelevant to me.

            What I tremendously dislike is your ignorant and arrogant use of some medical terms to give a semblance of legitimacy to the attempt at implementing policies that without a doubt will cost women their lives

            I tremendously dislike how you fell justified in making very personal medical decisions for women you do not know one wit about.

            I tremendously dislike your frivolous and despicable attempts at dismissing the expert opinion of the doctors who actually treat pregnant patients as irrelevant,

            I tremendously dislike your refusal to engage honestly and your consistent lying and doubling down on disproven and thoroughly refuted information
            Etc etc.

          • David Young

            you have to get a grip on the fact that the Religious don’t have special Rights to feel comfortable in this world, they chose to believe in this nonsense and it their mental problems that are an issue here !

            Religion will ALWAYS be commanded to keep silent in the modern world, simply because those that have the ability to think will NOT let peoples fantasies rule the world, and those that can NOT understand that should NOT have a voice in this world because they are imbiciles

          • HeilMary1

            They’re also murderous psychopaths.

          • cjvg

            You posted direct quotes from the Catholic “Health” Association and we posted direct news reports about the reality of the ACTIONS of the Catholic “health” care providers.

            Talk is cheap, even cheaper when you are a Catholic “health” care provider since they apparently do not care one wit what their Catholic “Health” Association says!

          • Ella Warnock

            If the catholic hospital was aware she was having a miscarriage and
            their directives allow removal of the fetus for that reason, why did
            they delay in treating her? Is there a medically-based or religious reason why they would opt to not treat her until the situation became more dire?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            He will not answer you.

          • Ella Warnock

            I know; they never do. Because the answer boils down to “They don’t treat women in crisis because they don’t have to.” Everybody knows that’s what the answer is and it isn’t morally defensible, so they all fade into the woodwork when anyone tries to pin them down.

            I can’t remember how many times I’ve asked that question, and every single one of them, especially the more strident and snide ones like ‘five,’ immediately make themselves conspicuously scarce.

          • goatini

            Most interested to know your medical credentials as a physician.

          • five_by_five

            Are you really going to try to argue that methotrexate IS used to treat 18-week miscarriages?

            Or are you just simple opposing my comment because I’m the one who stated it?

          • goatini

            You have zero credibility.

          • cjvg

            Apparently you can not follow the written word very well.
            Non viable pregnancies are treated by terminating the pregnancy.

            I was not aware you required the exact means for each specific case, can you not receive abortive care telemed were you are ?

          • cjvg

            To dense to read?! They are both treated with an abortion.
            How the abortion is achieved depends on the particulars of the case.
            If you want specifics try some education, you are sorely lacking

          • five_by_five

            What you wrote has nothing to do with the fact that you still don’t treat a 18-week miscarriage with methotrexate.

            That is a statement of fact. And yet you and 10 other idiots downvoted it. Why?

          • cjvg

            Ah, I see you can still not understand what you read.

            “How the abortion is achieved depends on the particulars of the case”
            What do you think that means?!

          • five_by_five

            It means you are clueless.

            Methotrexate is not used on a woman who is 18 weeks pregnant.

          • cjvg

            “depends on the particulars of the case”
            In very simple words that means that every single pregnancy termination is done with the method best suited to the patients medical history.
            NO ONE is stating that methotrexate should be used to terminate or complete the termination of an 18 week pregnancy.
            That is something you invented all by your self, I can not refute stuff I never said!
            You are incredible twisted and dishonest!

          • five_by_five

            “NO ONE is stating that methotrexate should be used to terminate or complete the termination of an 18 week pregnancy.”

            Yeah, except Plum Dumper….who above posted a story about a woman having a 18-week miscarriage in reply to my comment about methotrexate and ectopic pregnancy.

            Maybe she was just confused.

          • Mirable

            Plum Dumper aka Fetus Pumper.

            Anyways..

            Don’t you want somebody to love?

          • cjvg

            So you were just “confused” when you tried to imply, neh straightforward stated that I claim it is used to treat an 18 week pregnancy?1

            And then continued along that lie for 4 more replies although I patiently explained over and over what I said what that means and implored you to use some basic sense?!

            five_by_five cjvg • 4 days ago
            You don’t treat a 18-week miscarriage with methotrexate fool.

            And again

            five_by_five cjvg • a day ago
            It means you are clueless.
            Methotrexate is not used on a woman who is 18 weeks pregnant.

            And again

            five_by_five cjvg • a day ago
            What you wrote has nothing to do with the fact that you still don’t treat a 18-week miscarriage with methotrexate.
            That is a statement of fact. And yet you and 10 other idiots downvoted it. Why?

            And again

            five_by_five cjvg • a day ago
            What you wrote has nothing to do with the fact that you still don’t treat a 18-week miscarriage with methotrexate
            All this while I consistently explained that a pregnant women who needs an abortion for her health and goes to a Catholic hospital will be refused one (thereby severely endangering her health and life)
            Pretending that never happened is just not going to fly, but of course you are never wrong!

          • five_by_five

            “hospital when she needs an abortion to preserve her health will be refused one”

            The conversation that you tried to interrupt was about methotrexate use for tubal pregnancies. Which, as you clearly didn’t know, has nothing to do with18-week miscarriages (which is the article Plum Dumper linked).

            ha ha

          • cjvg

            “I clearly did not know” ?!
            Sure just keep on pretending that I have explained this to you over and over and over and over. Of course then there is also the little fact that I NEVER SAID THAT!
            You are getting so desperate that it must be embarrassing to see your own pathetic falsehoods while you write them!

          • Renee Goodwin

            But you remove the fetus, except at a catholic hospital, even if there is not a snowballs chance in hell of the fetus surviving, they will not remove the fetus prior to it’s death, which exposes the woman to horrific infections, because a non-viable fetus needs to be removed as soon as possible, every hour that goes by after the membranes rupture is increasing the woman’s likely-hood of becoming infected by a doomed pregnancy

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Quibble quibble. RCC hospital policy hurts women. That is the point. You are ignorant, hostile and conformist. The authoritarian trifecta.

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21353977

            Do religious restrictions influence ectopic pregnancy management? A national qualitative study.
            Foster AM, Dennis A, Smith F.

            Our findings suggest that some interpretations of the Directives are precluding physicians from providing women with ectopic pregnancies with information about and access to a full range of treatment options and are resulting in practices that delay care and may expose women to unnecessary risks.

            Copyright © 2011 Jacobs Institute of Women’s Health. Published by Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

          • five_by_five

            How is that conclusion any different than anything that I’ve posted on here?

            It isn’t. You’re just to jaded with hatred towards anything I post to see that.

            Oh, and you linked to an article that requires a subscription to view in full. As we learned the other day, you are not allowed to do this Plummy. cjvg and lady_black would be very disappointed in you.

          • David Young

            if the church can’t follow laws of man, it should NOT be allowed to own LAND or MONEY, let aline run Hospitals and have a VOICE over who may live or die !

            And it seems they make the choice to let the woman die that is NOT capable of carrying the fetus to term

          • HeilMary1

            RCC “hospitals” should be criminally prosecuted for Munchausen by Proxy abuse of women, children and gays.

          • cjvg
          • five_by_five

            That’s not the same study that Plum Dumper linked.

            Nice try though.

          • cjvg

            Actually it is, look it even has the same authors what a coincidence huh?!

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Go here and you will find the release and relief your fetish requires.
            http://www.filthysextube.com/

          • Renee Goodwin

            You are of course assuming that fact deniers will actually read anything factual if it is not in concordance with their biased beliefs LOL

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Oh wahhhhhhhh! You do not know that you are sadistic? Do tell. How did you turn into an OCD shamer blamer sadist. What happened to you.

          • HeilMary1

            Probably the RCC cult. My mom and her posse continually shamed me for resisting their medical abuse and public humiliations.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I had the same Mother and family system. I am sorry we were hurt. I am glad we are here and not subject to the abuse anymore.

          • HeilMary1

            Eileen Cronin, author of “Mermaid: A Memoir of Resilience”, had a similar demented Catholic upbringing.

          • expect_resistance

            Stop with the incessant whining and pathologic lies.

          • HeilMary1

            It has EVERYTHING to do with ectopic pregnancies, you lying troll.

          • five_by_five

            Please at least try to stay focused. The comment I replied to was about tubal pregnancy being treated with medicine.

            The little story Plum Dumpling decided to write about was about a woman who was having a miscarriage at 18 weeks.

            I’m hoping that you understand that these are different situations.

          • lady_black

            Catholic hospitals should ALL be forced to treat ectopic pregnancies with medication. It’s the gold standard of treatment. Instead, they rob women of their fertility as a punishment for her “failure” by removing the entire tube. Shameful!

          • Renee Goodwin

            Not to a catholic hospital

          • lady_black

            It has everything to do with ectopic pregnancies. No pregnant woman experiencing a medical complication should EVER submit herself to a Catholic hospital and expect to be treated decently. I was almost killed by one. If I hadn’t been on the ball and prevented a doctor from inducing labor, I would be dead now.

      • HeilMary1

        Liar, Catholic “hospitals” oppose methotrexate for ectopic pregtnancies.

        • five_by_five

          Yes, some do.

          And some do not. And it doesn’t appear the CHA does and they run over 600 Catholic hospitals.

          • HeilMary1

            There is a major difference between stated policies and actual practices. Pregnant women, rape victims, and LGBT folks should NEVER go to RCC “hospitals”.

          • goatini

            I know that’s right. They’ve been physically harming women for many years. A Catholic hospital deliberately harmed me and caused me completely unnecessary pain and suffering almost 40 years ago – I couldn’t believe then that it was legal for them to deliberately hurt me, but NOW they, and AHs like Mr 5, like to BRAG about what they do to women.

          • HeilMary1

            That’s why I keep harping on the RCC getting away with cult-based Munchausen by Proxy medical abuse. Someday, the world will wonder why it didn’t free itself of such abusers centuries ago. Victims and enablers of pompous Munchausen by Proxy perps are so bamboozled that many die never getting suspicious of the obvious crimes.

          • Renee Goodwin

            That is the truth, RCC emergency rooms often do not cooperate with law enforcement on rape cases, they probably won’t do evidence collection, won’t have rape counselors, and for sure won’t give emergency bc

          • cjvg

            Even if that was true (hint it is not, if the do use it, it is against the rules and done clandestine usually the treating doctor claims that the fetus already died so it is now acceptable to used best medical practices) women should just be forced to undergo a Russian roulette with their health. life and fertility and hope the doctor they encounters has the ethic and morality to follow best medical practices?!

          • five_by_five

            I’m not sure which part of my comment you think is not true.

            That the CHA runs over 600 hospitals, or that they allow methotrexate?

          • cjvg

            Obtuse is also one of your many debating strategies, unfortunately facts do not seem to be among them.

            Methotrexate is not allowed in catholic hospitals for any other indication then to remove a DEAD fetus!

            What this means (as you are well aware) that it can NOT be used to resolve an ectopic pregnancy because the fetus is generally still alive, although this is widely recognized as best medical practice by the ACA and the ACOG.

            This in turn means that catholic hospitals resort to sub par practices that endanger the woman’s fertility, health or life!

      • Tanya Nguyễn

        You do understand that the entire point of telmed (which is done in many fields, not just abortion) is to help get medical access to those who canot GET to a hospital?

        It’s great to live in the privilge world where we have 2 or 3 hospitals near us, but in rural ares of the nation (and world), you are lucky to find a doctor within a day’s travel, and that travel is expensive and takes you away from things like child care, farming, and the day to day maintenance of your world.

        Indian reservations, rural farming communities, ranchers in northern US states, people in mountans or deserts all have issues with getting medical care. Being able to call in a basic, simple SAFE abortion is a medical need, not a luxury.

        • five_by_five

          My comment was in reply to a commenter stating “What if the woman has a tubal pregnancy and needs the medicine asap.” An ectopic pregnancy is an emergency. That woman should be in a hospital. To suggest that telemedicne should treat it is wrong.

          Your failure to understand the context or content of my comment is rather disappointing.

          • Mirable

            I know that we are young

            And I know that you may love me

            But I just can’t be with you like this anymore

            Alejandro

          • cjvg

            That made me smile, thanks for that.(very little to smile over with that one) Always enjoy your comments.

            It took me some time to figure out what you changed your moniker too (since I usually don’t post or check my disqus very regular, I just read the interesting threads)

          • Renee Goodwin

            I never knew how to pronounce Alejandro until after I heard that song, and I knew someone with that name that I didn’t even dare to try and say, thanks to lady gaga, I can now pronounce Alejandro like a pro : )

          • Renee Goodwin

            I only suggested the telemedicine for the prescription, that is if the er doctor diagnosing the condition refused to prescribe the medicine and forwarded the diagnosis and medical data to a doctor that would prescribe the medication via telemedicine

            Much safer and faster than a woman having to travel to a different hospital if the one she was diagnosed at refused to prescribe the medication for her fallopian pregnancy.

      • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

        And many Catholic hospitals can, and do, prescribe methotrexate for ectopic pregnancies.
        …………..
        Lie. If it were only one or two RC hospitals that denied standard protocol for miscarriages, ectopic pregnancies and rape, the ACLU would not be suing RC hospitals. And the Women’s Law Center would not be so concerned.

        Here in Philadelphia, a RC hospital tried to merge with Abington General. All the medical staff fought the merger tooth and nail because they did not want Roman Catholic health standards for women to be operative at Abington. And the medical staff won.
        http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/news/2012/07/18/holy-redeemer-abington-hospitals-nix.html

        The Roman Catholic hierarchy will not be allowed to kill and maim women in Philly. And that is a good thing.

    • jaydeebee

      How is a pill going to help a woman with an ectopic pregnancy? Do you even know what a tubal pregnancy is? It’s a condition where the embryo is lodged in the fallopian tube and if not diagnosed early enough can cause internal bleeding. First of all, unless she has a home sonogram machine, she will need in-person screening to make that diagnosis. Second, the condition requires surgery. I don’t know where you are getting your medical info, but a medically induced abortion is NOT the treatment for a tubal pregnancy.

      • fiona64

        Uh … methotrexate is the best treatment for ectopic pregnancy if a woman’s fertility is going to be preserved. Salpingectomy is far more radical, invasive … and damaging.

        And not all ectopic pregnancies are in the fallopian tube. Just so you know.

        • jaydeebee

          The person above used the term “tubal” pregnancy which, by definition, is in the fallopian tubes. Not all ectopic pregnancies are tubal, but tubal pregnancies are in the fallopian tubes. AND while methotrexate maybe the best treatment, a doctor still needs to make the diagnosis. What sane doctor who wants to keep his license is going to diagnose someone with a potentially deadly condition via the computer? It’s a straw man argument.

          • fiona64

            Um, sweetie? The telemedicine is for the *final* appointment, not the initial one. Just sayin’ …

          • lady_black

            Anyone experiencing a tubal pregnancy shouldn’t be far away from a hospital. Telemedicine is not an issue in a life-threatening pregnancy complication such as tubal pregnancy, and RU486 is not used to treat it. RU486 is used to abort intra-uterine pregnancies only. No doctor is going to advise treating ectopic pregnancy by telemedicine. If the woman is experiencing signs of ectopic pregnancy, a doctor should do nothing telephonically other than order her to seek emergency treatment at once.

          • fiona64

            Considering that I didn’t suggest telemedicine should be used for treating ectopic pregnancies, I’m a little confused. It has, however, been the kind of day where what I wrote and what I meant may have been two different things.

          • lady_black

            Sorry, I believe that was meant for jaydeebee, and went to you by mistake. A thousand pardons.

          • fiona64

            No worries … I’ve done it myself a time or two (and sometimes Disqus has done it for me).

          • lady_black

            I think disqus did it for me. That was the comment I clicked to reply to.

          • Renee Goodwin

            I caused the confusion, I didn’t mean that an ectopic pregnancy should be diagnosed by telemedicine, but if there is only one hospital, and the doctors there won’t prescribe the medication abortion, then perhaps the medical info could be sent to a doctor that would prescribe it after reviewing the medical charts/data, I had the thought complete in my head, but only posted part of it

          • fiona64

            No worries.

          • jaydeebee

            Um, sweetie? An ectopic pregnancy is a medical EMERGENCY. A doctor doesn’t send a woman home and then call her up and tell her to take a pill.

          • five_by_five

            Why don’t you read the comment he was replying to?

          • Renee Goodwin

            yes it needs to be diagnosed in person, but if the doctor that diagnosed it is not willing to prescribe methotrexate because of his or her personal beliefs over-riding the best interests of the patient, then a doctor with all the medical information could then prescribe the medicine by telemedicine

        • five_by_five

          “methotrexate is the best treatment for ectopic pregnancy if a woman’s fertility is going to be preserved.”

          Why are you trying to be a physician now?

      • lady_black

        Surgery isn’t always required, and hopefully it won’t be. You are correct about the need for in-person diagnosis and treatment. The gold standard is methotrexate, which does kill the embryo. Hopefully it will be rejected or reabsorbed.

        • jaydeebee

          That’s my point. It really doesn’t matter where you stand on whether the drug should be used or not, diagnosing ectopic pregnancies over the internet is ludicrous and reckless. I’m not trying to say the drug should be banned. I’m just saying that a woman experiencing symptoms of this condition needs to be seen by a doctor.

          • lady_black

            Absolutely correct about seeing a doctor, preferably in the ER at a hospital. About always requiring surgery, not so much.

          • Renee Goodwin

            Yes it needs to be diagnosed in person, but if the treating doctor, for example at a catholic hospital, refuses to prescribe the medication, the diagnosis could be sent to a doctor willing to prescribe the medication, instead of the woman being forced to wait for her fallopian tube to burst before the catholic doctors will do anything for her

    • lady_black

      Ectopic pregnancy is a medical emergency, and most often treated with methotrexate if diagnosed before rupture. This is a different situation.

      • Renee Goodwin

        But not at a Catholic hospital, they will not give the medicine, they wait until the last minute and remove the fallopian tube

        • JamieHaman

          Or Catholic Hospitals let you die. Imposing their religious beliefs on patients, and the doctors who work there.

        • lady_black

          Yes. Catholic hospitals routinely engage in malpractice.

  • http://www.friv2friv3friv4.com/ friv 2 friv 3 friv 4

    Thank you for that well documented reply.

    • goatini

      Looks like the flying monkeys of known perjurer Stanek’s forced-birth propaganda cesspool are here voting down those who stand for the civil, human and Constitutional rights of female US citizens.

      • Jennifer Starr

        Friv is a link spammer who copied and pasted someone else’s reply and is trying to promote its virus-ridden games website.

        • five_by_five

          Ha ha….fiona64 is confused. She upvoted your vote calling friv a spammer.

          AND she upvoted friv’s comment.

          I’m sure she’ll figure it out. Just give it some time.

          • HeilMary1

            Jealous of accidental upvotes for spam?

          • expect_resistance

            I think he’s jealous of everything. :)

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You suffer from obssessive compulsive disorder.
            Everyone of you Fetus Freaks is broken in some way. Take you, you are a liar. Now I see OCD. And you have an unfortunate personality.
            So, here you are hanging with a bunch of women who skeeve you. Counting votes. It is the bargain basement version of NO EXIT. Your own little hell.
            Think of it. You could be rolling a doob and having a good time somewhere.

        • expect_resistance

          I hope can ban the spam. Very annoying.

  • fiona64

    Just more barriers to care that will primarily affect the under-privileged … not that the anti-choice care.

    • Shan

      The very existence of RU486 makes them lose their minds sometimes. As well as the telemedicine bans against it, they’ve also passed state legislation forbidding physicians from prescribing it “off label” and forcing doctors to use the same outdated FDA protocol that was in place when it was originally approved nearly 15 years ago. Nevermind the fact that physicians all over the world have since discovered that RU486 can be administered at 1/3 the dose and up to 63 days after LMP instead of just 49 days and that a maximum of 2 visits to a physician are necessary instead of three. Not only that, 20% of medications are already prescribed “off label” without any legislative objection. Abortion is, yet again, singled out as the exception.

      Of course, the legislation requiring the use of the FDA protocol is only intended to make RU486 more difficult to obtain by making it more expensive at 3 times the necessary dosage and requiring more physician visits. The first issue alone makes “patient safety” a bogus reason as it’s never safer to take three times the medication necessary. Add to that the fact that not allowing it to be used up to 63 days means that after 49 days a woman MUST have a surgical procedure instead, which is much more invasive.

      • five_by_five

        So , really what you’re advocating for is that healthcare providers be allowed to practice less safe practices so that women are able to have easier access to abortions.

        That’s an interesting trade off. I guess if we didn’t care at all about the health of those women, we just eliminate all monitoring and regs and just let women buy RU-486 at CVS over the counter.

        • Shan

          Back up and show me where I’ve advocated anything that’s not safe.

          • fiona64

            It’s a lying teenaged boy … ignore it.

          • Mirable

            It’s trying to put people on the defensive by accusing them of being DS baby killing psychos. When people answer honestly, it can act all outraged, and call them sociopaths. If we give it what it wants, and then some, it’s left holding it’s limp peen in it’s hands.

          • Shan

            I think Five has an agenda s/he truly thinks is worthy of projecting but that s/he doesn’t have enough real-world experience to fully understand the nuances of it. I appreciate the passion s/he has – because I’ve been there – and I hope reality doesn’t hit her/him on the head too hard when the time comes.

          • Mirable

            I don’t have a lot of hope for ze. Some people remain emotionally and mentally stunted for their entire lives.

          • Shan

            Who is “ze”? I’m confused.

          • Mirable

            Gender neutral pronoun. Ze, xe, zir, xir. There is a wiki article on the subject if you care enough.

          • Shan

            No, not really.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            If it is this way as a Teen, there might be hope. If it is an adult, play Taps now.
            Somebody should give it a gift certificate to the local massage parlor. Or a really good beating. Something. It does not seem stupid.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You are a good person. I am not. I hope reality rips its tiny little dick right off.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I want to hurt it for giggles. Wouldn’t be like hurting a real person. Be kind of like squishing a roach.

            I fricking despise Shamer Blamers. Comes from growing up abused by such.

          • Shan

            I’m still interested in an answer here. If it’s not too much trouble. I wouldn’t want you to feel bullied or anything.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You are not going to get a sane answer.

        • HeilMary1

          Forced birther / pro-liar you supports using fetuses like guns on women.

        • expect_resistance

          Lying again. You didn’t read anything Shan said. Try again.

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          You are a shamer/blamer. Sad to see such maladjustment in one so young. But you are twelve, you may grow out of such. I hope you do so, before someone like me beats the everloving shyte out of you. And then rubs salt in your wounds. I bet people run when they see you coming.

          RU486 is safer than surgical abortion which is very safe. Telemedicine is going to be practiced more in the future, not less. I say that because there is a shortage of gynecologists/obstetricians and maternal beds in my city for the population, for example. Has been for some time. I imagine it is much more acute in rural areas.

        • lady_black

          What’s “less safe” about it? And be specific.

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          Do you advocate criminalizing abortion? That is unsafe for women.

  • P. McCoy

    Time to defund on state, county and federal government levels religious based hospitals that refused to acknowledge contraception and abortion rights. Secular hospitals need to be built as alternatives. We don’t allow churches that refused to use blood transfusions or use of blood products. So we should get anti choice hospitals out of serving the general public since they put their religion above the laws that state that abortion and contraception are legal. It is tragic that the Catholic Church advocates suicide essentially for women in line threateniingredients pregnancies, deferring to the idol worship of the so called ” unborn child ”.