Judge Orders Marlise Munoz Removed From Mechanical Support


Read more of our coverage on Marlise Munoz’s case here.

After an hour of arguments Friday in the case of Marlise Munoz, the pregnant woman who has been kept on life support against her and her family’s wishes so her pregnancy could continue, a Texas judge ordered John Peter Smith Hospital to declare the woman dead and withdraw life support by 5 p.m. Monday.

The arguments came after attorneys for Marlise Munoz’s husband, Erick, filed an emergency motion with the court to try and get the hospital to remove life support measures from Munoz, who suffered a pulmonary embolism in November and was declared legally brain dead. Despite the fact that Munoz is brain dead, and that she and her family were clear that she did not want life-supporting measures to be taken, the hospital never officially pronounced her dead, because, according to hospital attorneys, Texas law permitted the hospital to override those wishes in attempts to save her developing fetus.

Attorneys for the hospital finally admitted earlier this week that the fetus Munoz is carrying is not viable, after tests showed the fetus is severely malformed and suffers from developmental problems related to likely oxygen deprivation. Attorneys for the hospital also conceded in the hearing that if Munoz were alive, she would elect to abort the fetus.

The hospital has the option to appeal the ruling.

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  • goatini

    Finally. Let us hope that the hospital lets this rest, and lets Ms Munoz rest in peace.

  • http://twitter.com/#!/SocraticMrMeth Streptococcus pyogenes

    I will never forgive these awful, arrogant people for making her family suffer through this nightmare when they should have been grieving and comforting each other and dealing with their loss. They’ll have to live with this their whole lives, and I hope with time the memory of her life won’t be overshadowed by the brutality of this ordeal.

    And, of course, I’m more than just a little curious how anyone there plans to restitute their actions to a dead person who’s wishes and personal autonomy they casually violated with facile excuses and the deliberate disregard of the spirit of the law.

    Rest in peace, Charlise, you and your little one.

  • Ivy Mike

    The inevitable forced-birth spin on this is going to be interesting. So far, only their most unhinged, insane fanatics have poked their pointy heads up to comment on the sites I visit. Sooner or later, however, their organizations and leaders will disseminate the talking points.

    Same thing happens after every disgusting fiasco they cause…from Terri Schiavo to Savita, it takes a couple of days for them to come up with some good excuses. It’s always entertaining, at least.

    • Defamate

      I’ve been reading around, and even the ‘secular’ pro-life blogs decided that Catholicism was not ‘to blame’ for Savita’s death – that it was medical malpractise, period.

      jeez.

      I duno, maybe both?

      Why do people feel the need to make excuses for religion?

      • lady_black

        There is a principle in law about intervening actions. In this case, it would go like this: If NOT for the Catholic directives, there would have been no malpractice. So yes, the Catholic church is directly responsible for what happened to Savita, and many other women victimized by Catholic obstetrical malpractice.

        • HeilMary1

          Criminal Munchausen by Proxy abuse — making others sick for personal “sainthood”.

      • Ivy Mike

        I really don’t believe that there are all that many “secular” forced-birthers. I have yet to encounter one anywhere that, at some point, didn’t “out” themselves as motivated by religious thinking. Hell, the largest organized group of so-callled “athiest” pro-fetusers numbers in the low tens of members, and is headed and founded by Christians. To put it bluntly, when you encounter one online, just assume they’re lying. You’re probably right.

        As for Savita’s death and subsequent spin, correct. The “medical malpractice” swerve came a few days after she had died, and came straight from the fixers at the RCC and their minions.

        • Defamate

          One of the top writers at Secular Pro Life Perspectives is a Christian…Clinton Wilcox.

        • Renee Goodwin

          It’s like the ones that say they are pro-choice, but Munoz should have been kept on the machine until the “baby” was ready

  • fiona64

    Well, thank god that someone with some sense intervened. Now this poor family can mourn their loved one.

  • Mindy McIndy

    I cheered when I heard this news. Then I went on Huffington Post and read the comment section, to see many comments littered in there saying the father was a murderer, what kind of father would murder his baby, and that they would adopt the baby themselves. I need to stop reading comment sections on news websites.

    • Defamate

      People are so dumb.

      • expect_resistance

        I know. I’ve read the comment sections and wanted to beat my head into a wall. However, we are here talking to each other. I now it sounds corny but posting here and talking to people here makes me more optimistic.

      • Jennifer Starr

        Reading the comments on lifesitenews–just despicable–several of them are demanding a c-section and one man is demanding an autopsy on the fetus, along with more assertions that brain dead isn’t ‘really for reals’ dead. What planet do these people inhabit??

        • Defamate

          Just went there. Wow…such fanaticism.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Yes, and the clinically brain dead are ‘mentally disabled’. These people are not living in reality.

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          I have been thrown off lifesitenews. And I did my best to be polite when I was there too.

          • Jennifer Starr

            So did I. And apparently I’m an ‘evil pro-abort feminist robot’ for wanting to allow a woman’s husband and family to honor her wishes and let her go with dignity. And some of them don’t even seem to understand that Marlise Munoz is already dead.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            There was a guy on an abortion debate board who was a big fan of LSN. He used to repost the abortion articles. We hounded him off the board because he posted that abused children tempted the priests. That is the mentality that hangs there.

          • lady_black

            Yechhh.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You got the right feeling. He was never allowed to forget it. We just quoted him to himself over and over until he left.

          • L-dan

            And that sort of thing is the reason I can’t even go read the shit there and LAN. I just don’t have that amount of mental energy.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I enjoy slaughtering trolls. Of course, it is true that when you look into the abyss, the abyss looks into you.

          • Renee Goodwin

            oh dear, that is beyond low

          • bitchybitchybitchy

            It sounds as if anyone who considers women to have the ability to think would be branded an evil pro-abort feminist on that site.

          • badphairy

            One of us, one of us, one of us….;^P

          • fiona64

            You’re in good company. I never once violated TOS … I just presented actual data that refuted their nonsense, with links and sources. Apparently, creating cognitive dissonance is a ban-worthy offense.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You thug you. For shame. LOL.

          • Defamate

            Fiona, read her history. Go back at least two months. Improbable life story + many incredibly false claims about fetal awareness. I am thinking pathological liar maybe! Wolfcat.

    • expect_resistance

      I felt the same way when I heard the news. I can’t help thinking the family is living under the media microscope and it’s making an already horrible situation that much worse. Dealing with the untimely death of your spouse is horrible enough but then this. I can’t imagine the pain the family is dealing with. I just don’t have words.

      I love reading the comments section. I hate to say it but I’m interested to see what people are saying. Kind of like, taking the “temperature” of a slice of society.

      You’re spot on about the comments.

      • Mindy McIndy

        Reading comments can be so masochistic though. And at places like the Huffington Post, they screen your comments so heavily that they rarely get through, even when there is no objectionable content or language. So you can call the Erick Munoz evil and a baby killer, or say that gay people like me are an abomination, unnatural and disgusting, but rarely do your posts that refute those claims get posted.

        • badphairy

          I became unable to log in to HuffPo a few months ago. Best present I ever got from a website.

          • Mindy McIndy

            I am about to just quit that whole site altogether. It’s so crummy, with bad moderation and an over abundance of idiots. There was an article a few weeks ago about Terri Schiavo, as her family is still milking their fame, and people were still going on about her husband being a murderer because he wanted to honor her wishes, and that she could still recover despite the fact that she only had one third of her brain left, and it was just floating in fluid. And I still remember the negative comments about Savita from last year. A bunch of true pigs over there.

          • Defamate

            Apparently he wanted all her money so he could have orgies with all of his s1utty gfs on the side!!

          • Mindy McIndy

            It was so ridiculous, and the Marlise Munoz case has shades of Terri Schiavo. Her parents didn’t even claim he was abusing her until after the settlement, when he wouldn’t give them any of the money and it instead went towards her care and a van that was large enough to transport her and her bed in it. And his wife was in a persistent vegetative state, and was not coming back. His life is supposed to stop for the next several decades because her parents wouldn’t honor her wishes?

          • Defamate

            I hate how people claim that ‘persistent vegetative state’ isn’t death because the brain stem is still operational.

            No, it’s death. The part of the brain that matters is gone. If someone were to drill a hole into your skull and suck your brains out with a straw, your heart would still beat as long as they didn’t touch the brain stem – but you would be, for all intents and purposes, DEAD.

            The only reason people have such a hard time admitting that persistent vegetative state is death is because they don’t want to let go. There is the hope that the still beating heart = life. But if there is absolutely *no* hope of recovery, ever, because the frontal brain simply isn’t there, they are dead!

          • lady_black

            I disagree. I agree about the part that makes “you” you is not there in a PVS patient, but they are very much alive. All the body functions are normal, temperature is maintained, there is movement and waking and sleeping cycles. In a brain-dead patient, it’s EXACTLY like caring for a dead body. The body is cold to the touch, stiff, no movement, no nothing. I won’t go into gruesome details because I try not to think about it. I assure you, having cared for both types of patients, there’s a HUGE difference. I wouldn’t wish to be maintained in either condition, and my family is aware of that. But there is all the difference in the world. Trust me on that.

          • Defamate

            Well I think we agree, more or less. It’s just a words thing. Someone with no frontal brain, like an anencephalic baby, is just an empty baby of skin and bone. Sure, they are technically alive, but nobody’s home. Like a zombie! So, it’s ‘death’ in the identity sense, if not in ‘complete cell death’ sense. But, if people did not regard ‘loss of identity’ as a kind of death, then certainly anencephalic babies would be kept on life support for life for as long as possible no?

          • lady_black

            Never mind the money was gone. Those parents were real whack jobs.

          • HeilMary1

            So that’s why Michael Schiavo made the investment to become a professional nurse, keep Terri spotless, and resist the temptation of using his medical know-how to secretly mess with her IVs!

    • lady_black

      I was just there, and you must have come in at a bad time. The comments are overwhelmingly in support of the family. Only people who are ignorant would write such things. There was never going to be any “baby.” The mother and her fetus both died in November. We know that now.

    • MsC

      I even saw stuff like that at the NYTimes. Clueless, ignorant, cruel people whining about how the baaaaaaaaybeeeeee should be “given a chance.” A fetus almost two months before viability, deprived of oxygen for at least an hour as its mother died, did not have a chance to begin with. Anything done since then is simply the extension of the misogynist anti-choice belief that women are not human, not people, but mere incubators. And their comments prove it.

      • Mindy McIndy

        There is currently some idiot on Slate who was vigiling outside of the hospital, claiming that thousands of people want to adopt this baby, that this is murder, and to top it off, she has even seen Marlise’ body and she is fine! Oh, and that people come back from brain death all of the time.

        • Jennifer Starr

          Ugh. Things that make you repeatedly bang your head against a hard surface. I doubt this nutjob has gotten anywhere close to Marlise’s body. And no, no one comes back from clinical brain death.

          • Mindy McIndy

            There is no way they would allow some stranger from the street to go see her body. No way in hell.

          • lady_black

            What?? The pro-life wingdings lie through their teeth?? Say it ain’t so!

        • badphairy

          If “thousands of people” were waiting to adopt disabled babies, there wouldn’t be any in foster care. Since there are, he is ipso facto full of smeg.

          • Mindy McIndy

            Exactly. The disabled, minority and older children are the ones that are not adopted. When they are, it is frequently by a gay couple, not these anti-choice psycho Christians.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Smeg is about how I’d describe it. The idiots stalking this woman’s husband and family are total smegheads.

        • lady_black

          Yeah she’s “just fine.” Oooookaaaaayyyyy! Some people are truly so dumb they need to be watered. NOBODY wants to adopt this fetus. But never mind that. These people are smarter than all the doctors and nurses. They know just enough to be terribly dangerous.

        • goatini

          Evidently the same person who “saw” Terri Schiavo walking around and chatting with the nurses at their station….

          • Mindy McIndy

            Something that they could never catch on video. She must have been camera shy.

      • Renee Goodwin

        Actually more than two months before viability when the mother died, they wanted to keep the body on the machines as long as possible, the 24 week target was just to get past the state laws so it would have been more difficult to pull the plug, and 24 weeks is pretty low on the survival rate as far as viability goes

    • VeggieTart

      Are they gonna help Erick Munoz pay the hospital bills as a result of this travesty?

  • expect_resistance

    I hope this will put an end to the family’s suffering and let them start the grieving process. Today, I read Erick’s statement about seeing his beloved wife’s dead body being kept functioning artificially against her will. It was heartbreaking.

    • bitchybitchybitchy

      I too read Erick Munoz’ statement, and it really brought home that this woman has been dead for the past two months and her family was put through this hell so that a group of gutless, self-righteous polticians could preen for their “base”.

    • lady_black

      My hopes and thoughts are with the family, and always have been. I hope that they can find peace and closure, and are allowed to grieve their wife and daughter in peace.

  • HeilMary1

    Someone on Raw Story commented that Rick Perry was being kept alive as a hair incubator! That made my day!

    • expect_resistance

      I love it!

    • Ella Warnock

      Snork – good one!

    • badphairy

      Hmmm, good lord what’s Donald Trump for?

      • Jennifer Starr

        A tribble mobility scooter :)

        • HeilMary1

          LOL! — that’s where Trump stole his hair from! — an old Star Trek prop closet!

      • expect_resistance

        So glad you are here. Love you – big hugs. :)

      • HeilMary1

        Perry should donate some scalp for his hair-impaired buddy.

        • badphairy

          Wow. Finally a use for nonsterile surgical instruments. Thank you.

      • Renee Goodwin

        To show children what the boogie man looks like?

    • Renee Goodwin

      My new nickname for Rick Perry is Hairy Perry

  • Jennifer Starr

    Good news. Here’s hoping that this is the end of it,that they can finally mourn and say goodbye to this woman in peace and that no one drags this on through the court of appeals.

  • L-dan

    It took far too long, but thank goodness the courts showed some sense (not a given in that neck of the woods.) I really hope the unhinged pro-life sickos leave them the hell alone now to mourn in peace after this circus.

  • bitchybitchybitchy

    I hope that Marlise Munoz’ husband and family can now say their good byes, bury her, and mourn her in peace.

  • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

    Thank you, God.

  • lady_black

    Well, I’ve been officially banned from lifesitenews. I can’t even answer their idiocy and cruelty. I can’t believe there are people like this outside of asylums.

    • Jennifer Starr

      ((((((hugs)))))) I got banned too, even though I got quite a few upvotes. They do not tolerate differing opinions on LifeSiteNews, apparently, even if they are respectfully presented. You’re right–there’s quite a lot of insanity there.

      • HeilMary1

        Bigots hate inconvenient truths.

    • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

      I have been banned as well. It is a badge of honor. Only problem is, disqus keeps track of who bans you, how many times you get flagged. You will now have a black mark forever.

      • lady_black

        The thing is, I got upvotes. Do they ever consider that the site is run by people who wish to silence civil debate? I was only pleading for mercy and compassion for that family.

        • Jennifer Starr

          I think the fact that we got upvotes is what made them angriest of all. I think they want to give the impression that the majority agrees with them on this issue when in fact, they really don’t.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Yes. They do not want substantive discussion. They have an editorial point of view and a captive audience. Why spoil it with debate.

            Politico is now holding my posts. Why? I used the words penis and vagina in a discussion about Huckabees libido comment. Someone who used the F word to curse me is still up.

            Trying to control discussions is the new FAD on discussion boards. Making you use facebook or your real name. Rating you and then censoring everything you say.

            People are censored here. Whole thing is a bummer.

          • badphairy

            As much as I like TNC on the Atlantic, his moderating is getting a little overzealous. He commented to me that I was getting out of bounds and that the exchange should stop there. Two hours after he had closed the thread. I couldn’t have commented further even if I wanted to.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Really annoying and stupid.

          • L-dan

            Eh. I’m strongly of the opinion that folks running a site get to have the last word regarding what goes on there. Things are censored on a given site, but those people can easily go rant elsewhere. The trolls sometimes kick off discussion that will be useful for those who read it, but often don’t.

            I liked the downvote system that hid troll posts here previously. But Disqus doesn’t work that way, so I suspect the mods decided that deleting them was easier than letting them spew all over the place to no real benefit.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I want to see and read all responses no matter how vituperative. I do not like sites that bend reality for me. I can live with the truth/facts/insults. And live well. And learn things.

            You cannot sell me censorship in any form. However, I have a site, and when I become well known enough to have lots of commenters, I am sure I will occasionally censor someone. Very occasionally.

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          No. If you are effective, you are out of there.

        • Defamate

          “”Cristina4Jesus

          And it is so obvious that the “lady black” who is so cruelly commenting here to have the baby killed is post-abortive. Those who have killed their own child are so often the ones cheering on pregnant women to kill babies, a phenomenon called blood guilt.””

          ———–

          They have now started to demonize you. You are a psycho killer lady_black. Better adjust to your new identity!

          WTF is wrong with these people?

          EDIT: the same lady said that judges rule the land and forced death and homosexuality on people

          lololol

          Gosh. Captain Cassidy was right when she asked if LAN (and LSN falls under that) is a *parody* site like the ONION.

          • lady_black

            I’ve been lucky enough to have never needed an abortion. I hope that for those women on LSN that if their life is ever on the line, or they have been raped, that abortion is still legal and made available to them, even if that isn’t their choice. And I hope that nobody unfairly demonizes them the way they have demonized others.

          • Renee Goodwin

            Just my 2 cents, I do not think that a woman should have to prove to anyone that she had to have an abortion because she was raped, I am more about preventing unwanted pregnancy by education and contraception, but when I was raped, I certainly wanted to have an abortion instead of being pregnant by my rapist, but why I needed or wanted an abortion was nobody’s business but mine and my doctor’s

          • lady_black

            Absolutely right. You owe no one any explanation whatsoever. That’s 100% your business, and you have nothing to prove.

          • Renee Goodwin

            Just an fyi, the house passed H. R. 7, the one that includes a woman having to explain to an IRS agent that she needed that abortion cause she was raped if she wants to deduct it as a medical expense, how horrific would that be, I couldn’t talk about being raped for a long time

      • expect_resistance

        If you get banned does it have an effect on your disqus account?

        I’ve never tried posting at lifestitenews. I can’t stand the crap on their site and would probably throw up in my mouth reading it. Hats off to you for posting there and speaking the truth.

        • lady_black

          Oh you would throw up in your mouth for sure. A few of their “interesting” ideas:
          1) The hospital should cut her open and remove “the baby.” It might survive in an incubator!
          2) They want the fetus autopsied, and the judge and the woman’s family charged with 1st degree murder because “the baby is perfectly healthy.”
          3) No tests whatsoever have been performed on “the baby.” (Of course they have done tests, and determined it would be likely stillborn and is highly abnormal.)
          4) “I will adopt that baby!”
          5) What will it hurt to keep a dead woman hooked up to machines for a few more months?”
          I’m telling you, there are some very SICK PUPPIES over there on lifesitenews. No compassion for that family, and truthfully none for the fetus either. It’s like some kind of cult.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            These are the folks who bomb clinics, maim nurses, kill doctors and bully patients. They are terrorists. They are organized.

          • lady_black

            Yeah. I agree. I see the ‘Munchausen by proxy’ psychosis that Heil Mary is always talking about in those people. Very scary.

          • HeilMary1

            Exactly! They demand living sainthood status for themselves because they sadistically inflict disease, poverty and death on their designated sacrificial lambs. I keep mentioning Munchausen by Proxy psychosis because it offers another legal route for criminal prosecution. If I were a prosecutor, I would try that angle.

          • Defamate

            Too bad you’re banned…look at this:

            http://www.politico.com/story/2014/01/march-for-life-2014-102461.html#comment-1216769069

            And she says:

            “”But if you go after the women themselves, the equation changes. The American society never forgives heinous murder, but when a woman kills her own unborn baby under the guise of her “right to choose”, people fall silent. It’s a big hypocrisy. If the punishment for heinous killing is to be death, it goes without saying that the most heinous killing – that of the unborn – should warrant death as well.”

            ————

            Either she’s a poe, or she’s batshit crazy.

          • Mindy McIndy

            I vote batshit crazy. Just wait until she or her child needs an abortion for whatever reason, and watch her tune change.

          • Defamate

            She says abortion is *worse* than the Holocaust!

          • Mindy McIndy

            As someone who lost most of my family on my dad’s side due to the Holocaust, I take real offense to that.

          • goatini

            As someone whose Dad was a survivor, I also take real offense to that.

          • HeilMary1

            Given the ignored treasonous genocidal collusion of most RCC clergy, I also am offended that fetal idolaters keep abusing the Holocaust card, especially since Cardinal Montini aka Paul VI of Humanae Vitae fame actually funded the Nazi Ustasha gutting of pregnant Serbs and their “heretic” fetuses!

          • VeggieTart

            My paternal grandfather lost much of his family in the Holocaust. Shit, as someone who grew up Jewish, this pisses me off.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Her name is Anna or Anastasia Tzecheridou, she’s Greek but lives in Germany and she’s got the most miserable godawful looking picture I’ve ever seen on twitter–frowning while giving a thumbs up? What’s that all about? But yeah, she’s batshit, all right.

          • Defamate

            Since I started asking about the punishment required for abortion, the most vindictive people tend to be…fundies.

            They either say 30 years to life, or death for the woman. And in many cases, they even say life of the embryo over life of the woman, if the woman’s life is at risk.

            Fundies/cultists are sociopaths, I really believe it. They are obsessed with all things *obedient* and *punishment* oriented. They use religion as a cudgel to force people to do what they want. It’s sick.

          • Jennifer Starr

            I’ve seen her twitter–my vote is for batshit crazy. And she’s a kid–probably one or both parents are rabid anti-choicers as well.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I am banned from LSN. I am not banned from Politico but they haunt my posts and often they go into moderation for words like “penis” or they do not appear.
            I answered her. She will not like the answer.

          • Defamate

            I’ve been reading. Here is the lastest response to you:

            “”‘m afraid you have a very twisted view of what’s happening in this
            situation. Her body is being kept from decomposing, and her baby is
            still alive. Such a blessing that we have the technology to support the
            baby in this kind of situation! Human life trumps convenience every
            time, just as the truth trumps inaccuracies such as you are spreading.””

            They are even arguing that it is GOD’s will that she be hooked up, and remain hooked up. And that we are disobeying GOD by removing life support!

            And no, her body is decomposing, you ignorant twits.

          • Jennifer Starr

            The brain controls and directs so many bodily functions–I don’t even think they realize what the hell they’re talking about. And I don’t think they’ve considered how profoundly disturbing the idea of ‘life at any cost’ actually is. Or maybe they have and they just don’t care *shudder*.

          • Defamate

            And they keep relying on the old fallback THE DOCTORS ARE WRONG,but we should at least try to save the life, GOD WANTS US TO.

            Freaks.

            They really are mentally ill.

          • Renee Goodwin

            Just taking steroids for medical reasons causes the glands that control healing to slow down, and almost stop working if a person has to take steroids for a long time, when I had to take steroids to fight breathing problems due to asthma attacks caused by allergies, I couldn’t even shave my legs, because the steroids slow or shut down the gland(s) that tell the body to make new skin cells to replace the top layer of skin

          • lady_black

            I know it is. Unfortunately, I’ve seen first hand what happens in that situation. The body knows what happened, no matter how hard you try to fool it, and begins to decompose as soon as the brain dies. They are only slowing the process.

          • Renee Goodwin

            I can’t remember which newspaper website it was, a texas one anyway, I told one of the other posters that maybe if we could get the forced birth folks to think about what happens to meat in your fridge past the use by date maybe we could get them to understand that dead bodies don’t stay good, I phrased it differently, but I think you can get the gist

          • Cactus

            Oy vey. They don’t know shit about science.

          • Renee Goodwin

            I have started calling that kind of thinking “fetus derangement” syndrome

          • Jennifer Starr

            That fits well–I like that :)

          • Defamate

            Do check ‘woflcat’s history…she has some really interesting ideas…and much more

            She claims to be pro-science, but…

            unborn babies feel pain at 8wks..

            unborn babies consciously interact with the world before 20wks

            dictionary definitions = science

            she had the hardest life ever, but is super successful with 2 five bedroom houses, and why is everyone else such a loser in comparison?

          • Jennifer Starr

            It’s reminding me of Anglel minus all the God bothering. Remember her?

          • Defamate

            No, I am still too new around here. Do you believe a word of her improbable life story?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Anglel was the woman who thought that babies were made in and grew in vaginas–actually she admitted to calling all female body parts vaginas because she liked saying the word. But no, I don’t believe a word of this woman’s life story.

          • Defamate

            What a freak. I have something written up, but I’ll post it later. Busy ATM

          • Jennifer Starr

            She said she got birth control at age ten but didn’t lose her virginity until age twelve? Does that make any sense?

          • Defamate

            All lies.

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          I have a blog/website and I use disqus for comments. How many times you have been flagged comes up on my board. If a lot, place like politico put a special watch on YOU.

          If you use the words “anus penis vagina” among others, your posts go right to moderation. It is a robotic censorship.

          Huffpo just lost all its comments community, many of them veterans of years, for robot and subject/word and editorial censorship and requiring real identitites for comments.

      • HeilMary1

        I’ve been banned from National Catholic Reporter and Crisis Magazine.

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          LOL. I have been banned from National Catholic Reporter, LifeSiteNews, dkos, and Raw Story. I am an eclectic troll.

          • HeilMary1

            Dkos and Raw Story banned you?! — that is scary and depressing!

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Yes, it is. Are you aware of the Huffpo controversy? Censorship on the web is THE ISSUE for me. dkos banned me after 5 years and many diaries. You can check me out. I was CherryTheTart there. You can find my diaries.

          • HeilMary1

            I have always heard complaints about Huffpo and never had much patience for its commenting rules.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            It is a bad place. And a leader in the robot censor race.

          • Renee Goodwin

            The human mods are pretty bad there, when they went to the community mods, the site might have leftish/progressive stories, but many comments that were not rightwing either never got thru the mods or got flagged

          • Renee Goodwin

            I might read a story or the comments on Huffpo, but I got banned I think about two years ago, apparently saying nice things about our president is bad, and also if you criticize anything that Israel does, well lets just say not being a fan of Israel is a sure fire way of getting banned there. My theory is that some of the mods are either from Israel or huge fans of the country

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Correct. HuffPoo censors opinions they do not like. They censor words they do not like. My sly dirty jokes always got through. Long thoughtful posts I spend time on without one bad word just disappeared into the clouds.

          • Renee Goodwin

            I became mildly rabid about Israel when they bombed Gaza and the Israeli citizens sat outside and had picnics while watching their armed forces kill civilians, that was pretty much the start of the end of my posting privileges on Huffpoo

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I stay far away from I/P discussions if I can. I have never seen a reasoned discussion of Israel and its political behavior and situation. I do not support Israel as a matter of course like many Americans. I met a young American Jew on the bus 30 years ago who had visited Israel and had nothing good to say about their treatment of nonJews.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I made them uneasy.
            https://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=4187082534648487114#editor/target=post;postID=2572516032713954086;onPublishedMenu=allposts;onClosedMenu=allposts;postNum=1;src=link
            I confess that I typed “Man, you are a c**t! >sic<" to somebody. They gave me a two day suspension. Then they wrote me that I could come back and "Now behave." So I wrote back "Eat shit and die." Once I get my Italian up, I tend to act out.

          • HeilMary1

            Have gotten some warnings and deleted comments on Raw Story and here because some right wing trolls pushed all my PTSD buttons. One RS troll, j_hoffa, continually posted racist looksist comments about a first lady before he got banned. I missed his worst offense, but apparently he posted racist porn pics and RS had to completely revamp its commenting feature.

            I believe in some kind of earned redemption for most trolls, but not so much for ones like j_hoffa. There is no perfect commenting system that makes everyone happy and I feel sorry for the moderators. Four letter words shouldn’t be banned, and WaPo’s system drives me crazy because it gives you no clue what words keep comments filtered out as offensive or spam.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You have put your fingers on the issues.

            The best system of moderation I experienced was on the long ago AOL debate boards. Moderation on conversation boards is essential to the good health of large commenting sites. And to be effective, IMO, it must be done by humans responding to remarks in context in real time.

            Most current commenting systems are, in part or in all, moderated by robotcensor including disqus. In so far as comment sites are moderatied automatically and/or editorially, we are all reacting to a distortion of reality and not to each other, the real human being.

          • Renee Goodwin

            LOL, I try to use logic and my “Spock” mind, instead of getting into fights with them, but then again, I probably don’t visit as many websites as you do, but some of those people are beyond obtuse

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Obtuse is the word.
            I am retired. I troll the internet.

          • Renee Goodwin

            I’m partially disabled and (supposed to) work from home, but I have to admit being so upset about this whole situation that I have been spending more time reading and either commenting or voting posts up or down for the past couple of weeks.
            I have cried more than a couple of times about this, I was so worried that the hospital was gong to appeal it, their lawyer was certainly making forced birther noises, and then I cried quite a bit when I read that they finally took her off of the machines, I can’t even being to understand how her family was able to be so strong through all the horror they have been put through. I hadn’t heard about the anti group protesting outside the hospital until recently tho, that was just insult to injury

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I think these zealot types underestimate the harm they do to themselves and their “cause” when they interfere in the intimate family lives of others.

            I also have a disability. It is hard to maintain a good attitude when you suffer from a chronic condition.

            I think we make a contribution when we share what we feel and think with others in the body politic. I hope idea helps a bit with your sadness. Whole thing is just horribly upsetting.

  • Jennifer Starr

    I’d also like to know where the hell this whole ‘brain death isn’t really death’ meme is coming from, because I seriously wonder about the sanity of anyone who can’t see that it’s pure unadulterated bullshit. It doesn’t matter if some of the bodily functions continue to operate for a short time. If my brain is gone, then I’m gone, because everything that made me ‘me’, that made me who I am would be gone too. Why would anyone want to keep what is essentially an empty shell going on forever, sustained by machines, knowing that they’re never going to come back in any sense of the word? Sorry for ranting a bit here, but it just doesn’t make any sense to me at all.

    • Defamate

      Yeah. I saw what that one asshat said to you. That as long as the heart is beating, she’s still alive???

      Pardon me!

      And then all of the martyrs bragging about how they would die for their baybeez!!

      BTW, Calvin has decided to harass Bob, isn’t doing very well:

      http://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/2014/01/why-is-it-always-men-advancing-the-pro-life-position-2/#comment-1216503321

      • Jennifer Starr

        No, he’s really not doing well at all. Calvin always comes off as unbearably pompous.

        • ldwendy

          Calvin is now attempting to get me to agree with him that most females have abortions (of healthy babies) out of convenience, and not due to rape or fetal anomaly.

          I’m not so sure that is the case, so I haven’t answered him yet.

          Sigh.

          • L-dan

            Probably is. But those are nearly all in the first trimester.

            Abortions for fetal anomaly are mostly in the 1.5% after 20 (or 21) weeks. Since that’s when many are diagnosed.

            90+% are in the first trimester where ‘healthy’ isn’t even determined. About a quarter of those would have miscarried (and therefore were possibly not healthy). Some other percentage would prove to be not healthy as well. But at that point in time, it’s really not able to be determined.

            At the same time, why does that make a difference? Is he saying that those exceptions are fine, but all the others should be banned? Because that’s pretty inconsistent unless it’s all about making sure women have babies as the ‘consequence’ of being sexual.

          • colleen2

            “I can’t afford to gestate, give birth to and raise a child right now is how the silly fuckers define “convenience”. They really are such assholes.

          • Defamate

            And they act like adoption is *always* a great option. Even though only 2% of women give their babies up, because of maternal bonding, they know that *technically* the baby can be given away, so they push that, ignoring that in the *real world* 18+ years of raising a kid can be devastating.

          • Renee Goodwin

            And there are probably quite a few kids that had hell on earth from their adoptive family, and many children that have been abused by foster families, so adoption/giving the baby up isn’t really that ideal of a solution

          • HeilMary1

            How about maternal health reasons? — although fetal idolaters always go ballistic whenever health risks are listed.

      • Cactus

        Well, if they believe that a blob of tissue with a heartbeat is the same as a human being, then I guess it’s logical that they believe that a dead, decomposing person with an (artificial) heartbeat is also one? Even if it flies in the face of all ACTUAL logic?

        It sometimes feels like the antis have no concept of how thoroughly complicated life can be. Like they live in insulated little bubbles and can’t comprehend the factors that could lead someone to choosing abortion, or lead a man to taking his dead wife off of machines so she can have a dignified death. They’re so frustrating to try to relate to because it’s like they don’t live in the real, logical world.

        • Defamate

          The only reason that they are offering to ‘adopt’ this baby is because it’s a big news item. Imagine the martyrgasm they would get if one of them was chosen to be the lucky adoptive parent?

          I would hazard a guess that they wouldn’t care a shit about other disabled children unless they could milk it for publicity and hugs from the pro-life community.

          • HeilMary1

            Those kids would only get photo-op hugs (and beatings when no one is watching!)

        • L-dan

          Pretty much. I mean, these are the same folks who mostly want to teach creation ‘science’ in biology class. They literally have no concept.

          They want simple black and white: You’re alive or you’re dead. You’re a person or you’re not. Abortion is always wrong. No grey areas, no shades of anything.

    • expect_resistance

      No kidding. When I was arguing with them about this and finally got them realize she is dead, they would turn around and say, if she’s dead then she wouldn’t care if her body is kept functioned for the “baaaabee.” There is no arguing with crazy.

      • Jennifer Starr

        They even taken to putting “brain death” in quotes now. * sigh*.

        • Defamate

          Just got a notification from a new comment on LSN. Apparently the judge has *ordered an abortion*, which is morally and legally vacuous!

          I thought they were ok with ‘letting someone die’ – isn’t that the excuse they trot out against the kidney donor argument?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Kristan Hawkins of Students for Life tweeted that it was a ‘court-ordered late term abortion’ *sigh*. You really do have to wonder sometimes.

          • Defamate

            Mental illness. And they are trying to one up one another to see who can sound the most righteous.

      • Renee Goodwin

        Yup I have seen comments allegedly from women that they would keep their dead body on life support for 9 months to give life to a baby

      • Defamate

        Check wolfcats history. Very very interesting life story…

        • expect_resistance

          It’s amazing what you can learn from profiles.

          So far I’ve gathered, she’s an anti-choice mom of two, likes celebrity gossip, is an atheist, and thinks she an intellectual. Did I mention, rabidly anti-choice.

          • Defamate

            Go back to at least two months… Her life story is in that old abortion thread..

          • expect_resistance

            The part about growing up in Atlanta, also her mom having an abortion?

          • Defamate

            Yes. There is lots more. There is also stuff about fetal pain and awareness at 8 wks. .she is so full of it

          • Defamate

            She claims to be pro-science, but…

            unborn babies feel pain at 8wks..

            unborn babies consciously interact with the world before 20wks

            dictionary definitions = science

            labour isn’t painful, at all

            women can have sex while in childibirth

            she had the hardest life ever, but is super successful with 2 five
            bedroom houses, and why is everyone else such a loser in comparison?

            had sex at 12

            pregnant at 14

            is a lawyer

            has two 5 bedroom houses!

            upper middle class!

            and did it all with no problems whatsoever!

            oh, also escaped abusive relationships and christian mom who had 3 abortions!

          • expect_resistance

            I did read the one about, twins hugging (or something like that) in the womb.

            She also claimed she has a 4.0 GPA. That seems a little fishy.

            You’re right it doesn’t add up.

    • lady_black

      I took care of such a patient once. The horror will haunt me for the rest of my days. I hope the hospital is helping their staff cope with this too. It’s cruel to everyone involved.

      • Defamate

        They can be in favour of this because their lives are not affected by it. This is what really bothered me about the invasion of Iraq. That it’s easy to sit back and say ‘Saddam Hussein is an evil tyrant; deposing him and liberating the people of Iraq is the righteous thing to do.”

        Except, in the *real* world, you have to break a few eggs to make that omelette. And this means that *real* people will die. Real people will be ‘collateral damage’. But, unless you are directly affected by it, it’s nothing more than an intellectual exercise! These people claim to be empathetic, but they are closer to sociopaths in their behaviour.

        • HeilMary1

          I called into WPFW FM’s community comment, recommending that Iraqis surround their big cities with Petri dish fertility clinic “babies” to prevent the Shock and Awe bombing. You know that stunt would have made Bush and Cheney hesitate in deference to their “sacred baby base”.

          • Renee Goodwin

            LOL pretty wild idea

        • Renee Goodwin

          I dunno, I think calling them sociopathic would be giving sociopaths a bad name

      • Jennifer Starr

        It really burns me up that these might be his last memories of his wife, her body hooked up to machines while a bunch of loonies scream outside–just sickening and cruel.

        • lady_black

          I too, pray that he will not allow this ugliness to overcome the good memories of his beloved wife. He must be incredibly strong to be taking this on. To hell with Operation Rescue. They have definite boundary issues and are not worthy of anyone giving them attention.

          • HeilMary1

            A real wife killer (and tax-paid for-profit Muslim baby killer) is Eric Prince, but mastectomied first brood mares and non-Catholic, non-white babies don’t count as human.

        • Ivy Mike

          Well, they all think the husband is a murderer, along with the judge and the hospital. Don’t expect them to have the slightest concern for the family.

          Op Rescue is a bunch of unhinged lunatics who crave attention, just like the Fred Phelps crew.

        • HeilMary1

          Which half-age brood mare/mistress will Randall Terry show up with?

    • L-dan

      Considering how much they want a brainless embryo to be a person, it’s not surprising at all. They don’t consider the brain to be an important part of the definition of a person. They don’t want to consider that most of what makes them ‘them’ is just grey matter firing off.

      And, well, given the strong current of anti-intellectualism there, they really have very little respect for what a brain does even when it’s running fine.

      • HeilMary1

        And fetal idolaters will insist your brains aren’t functioning when you disagree with them.

    • Joe.02

      In this case, the reason is because of the fetus. I’m not saying this to justify it, mind you, but there is a point here, however wrong. Other times, some don’t really want to admit the person is truly brain dead. That came up in the Terri Schiavo case.

      • Jennifer Starr

        But they’re pushing the same stuff with the Jahi McMath issue–no fetus there. And in this case the fetus is non-viable. Time to let this woman pass in peace.

        • Joe.02

          I support the judge’s order.

          I’m just noting why it was such an issue in the Munoz case. Looking at the McMath case, it looks like her family has religious beliefs that some miracle can occur as long as she breaths and her heart beats. The government has to follow more secular rules but if McMath was an adult and noted beforehand her beliefs & had the financial means to have a private hospital to keep her alive, it would up to her to do that.

          The government can still declare the person “dead” in that situation, I would add, but that would be something else. And, okay.

          • Jennifer Starr

            I understood what you were saying, yes.

    • Liora51

      I think it is the cells are human, too crowd. Of course, if that is the case then sperm and fingernails qualify for personhood.

    • Renee Goodwin

      It is only because she was pregnant when she died, to them it is all about the fetus or “babee” as they like to say, if she hadn’t been pregnant they wouldn’t give a sh!t

  • Mindy McIndy

    The hospital has agreed to take her off of life support and will not contest the ruling. Finally, a victory in this sick, sad case.

    • Estelle63

      Thank you for that news.

    • Jennifer Starr

      The latest reports say that she’s been removed from life support and that her body has been released to her family. Thank God, this whole thing is finally over and her family can finally bury her in peace.

      • Renee Goodwin

        It might not be over, already one state rep an “R” naturally, is making noises about making it harder or perhaps impossible for the next family, for example appointing a guardian for the fetus of a dead woman, that sounds like at least double nightmare time to me

  • Joe.02

    Sad case but given the early stage of fetal development, it was not as hard as some other case such as if the woman was brain dead but the fetus was post-viability. There is a window where the fetus is still developing but possibly can survive outside the womb.

    • VeggieTart

      Had she been seven or eight months along, I could see keeping her on a vent to buy a little time. But there’s no guarantee that the fetus would be viable, given the lack of oxygen for who knows how long. Even so, it would be up to her husband and her family to decide the course of action.

      • Joe.02

        If they kept her on life support, where would the lack of oxygen come in?

        • VeggieTart

          She was without oxygen for an unspecified length of time before she was found. This means her fetus was as well.

          • Joe.02

            Okay. Well, I’m thinking of a general case where that wouldn’t be an issue as such. But, thanks.

  • Ivy Mike

    Wow, someone’s been here downvoting like crazy. Aren’t they just so cute?

    • Defamate

      I noticed that too. I’m betting either a fruitcake from either LAN or LSN.

      • Jennifer Starr

        Brave enough to downvote but too cowardly to actually post anything.

        • Defamate

          I like how the winners over at LAN called you a sissy because you upvoted Sharon without commenting.

          Yeah.

          Calvin banned most of us a year ago.

          They don’t appear to be aware of that :)

          • Jennifer Starr

            Yeah, I would post there if I could. The same with LifeSiteNews as well. But I can support people who are able to post there so that’s something.

          • Defamate

            Calvin keeps getting his ass handed to him..

            http://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/2014/01/why-is-it-always-men-advancing-the-pro-life-position-2/#comment-1217632814

            I even gave him a gold star, and pointed out how we are all banned. (Marcus was complaining that we are too cowardly to debate at LAN)

          • Jennifer Starr

            He seems to go suddenly silent when confronted with the fact that we’ve been banned–guess that’s something he’d rather not admit. Do you have a link to the Marcus complaining?

          • Defamate

            http://liveactionnews org/case-of-pregnant-brain-dead-mom-has-pro-aborts-unwittingly-making-concessions-about-sanctity-of-life/

          • Jennifer Starr

            You know, nothing stops Marcus from pulling himself over here–he hasn’t been banned. Unless he’s–oh, I don’t know–too cowardly to debate here?

          • Defamate

            Marcus and PJ4 ‘debate’ by throwing logical fallacies* (that they don’t understand) and mounds of pseudo-science at people in order to wear them down. This is what they have been doing to Sharon.

            PJ even went so far as to say that 90% of women choose not to abort after seeing a sonogram. This, of course, was just proven wrong. Such a sea of disinformation.

            The funny thing is, RH mods wouldn’t ban them as long as they were respectful. Yet they banned all of us months ago because facts are inconvenient, or something:P

            *I am still laughing at Marcus, he accused someone of using the ‘argument from incredulity’ fallacy because she lacked the imagination to imagine how great life could be with an unwanted pregnancy and child. He’s nothing more than a pseudo-intellectual.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Oh yeah, pseudo-intellectual is definitely the word I’d use to describe him. And PJ4 is just a joke with a very fertile imagination.

          • Renee Goodwin

            Dang ya’ll stronger than me, I have a hard enough time coping with the comments on yahoo stories, I don’t think my mind could take bearding the lion (aka forced birthers) in their den

          • Defamate

            I spent a few months on yahoo comments before RHRC switched over to Disqus and I had an excuse to sign up.

            Hey..I remember you from Yahoo. You were on the same comment thread as me…about this subject.

            If you have spent any amount of time on Yahoo I am sure that you have met myintx, yes?

          • Renee Goodwin

            Sounds familiar.

          • goatini

            She’s a beeeeyotch.

      • Ivy Mike

        The internet equivalent of egging someone’s house, with all the maturity involved, as well.

    • Renee Goodwin

      I feel like I am on my way, I have already been downvoted also LOL, is that the RH equivalent of the welcome wagon?

      • fiona64

        It’s some LieAction troll … poor things have no lives.

  • Ivy Mike

    Anyone who condones or supports what was done to this woman and her family is 1. a walking demonstration of the soulessness and mental evils that are wrought by fanatical religionism, and 2. Has forfeited their right to be called human.

  • Jennifer Starr

    And apparently Operation Rescue is still carrying through with their little vigil and sit-in–one person on their Facebook page enthused that it was just like the ‘good old days’ of clinic blockades. I don’t suppose it occurs to them what they’ll be doing to the people who have loved ones at the hospital and want to visit them. These people are truly vile.

    • Ivy Mike

      Well, Op Res pulled the same crap down in Florida outside the hospice that Terri Schiavo was cared for at. No concern at all for the other patients there or their families, and they turned it into a sick media carnival, complete with death threats, attempts to get arrested, verbal abuse of the cops, etc. A total lack of any empathy or mercy at all is their trademark.

    • Defamate

      Speaking of the good old days…tell me what you think of this:

      http://ca.news.yahoo.com/fulfilling-promise-man-vegetative-state-31-years-gave-174045931.html

      Lots of people seem to think that this is wonderful and ‘selfless’ of the family but I am not seeing it. What *if* someone was conscious inside that boy’s skull and he suffered being trapped in his body for 31 years? The parents did it for themselves, not him, imo.

      People always assume that death is the absolute *worst* thing that can happen to a person. But I disagree. To torture someone, and to have that person know they are being tortured, and to be unable to escape..that sounds a lot worse to me.

      • Jennifer Starr

        There are many things worse than being dead, and being trapped inside your own body for over 30 years, unable to communicate, or having your body kept going by machines when your mind is gone would be much, much, worse. And you’re right–the parents did it for themselves, not for him.

      • VeggieTart

        Wow, that’s just…sick. So they dragged him all over, used him as a prop, and pretended it gave them purpose to show off their PVS child? Seriously:

        • HeilMary1

          My parents insisted on using scalded me as their show-n-tell Catholic pity prop, even though I loudly protested and locked myself in my bedroom or bathroom for hours to avoid their public humiliations. Such public pity pageants are hallmark signs of Munchausen by Proxy abuse. When I was 14, mom pestered me to enter my BURNED SKIN in some local disability parade! When I exploded with insulted rage, she blasted me for being “mentally ill and selfish”.

      • Renee Goodwin

        Poor thing, how horrible, I am guess that he couldn’t feed himself either, pretty much like what would have happened if “W” and his gang of idiots had been able to force the husband to keep Terri on machines

  • P. McCoy

    I got banned from Life Site News as well for making criticisms of their poster post rape child Gianna Jensen . I said that although Gianna’s mother’s choice was her own prerogative and some women DO love the child of their rapists, equally some women fell in love with their rapist or other rapists too aka Richard Ramirez or Ted Bundy. However, I was not that way that in fact, that if I were found to be pregnant due to rape, I ‘destroy have it excised out of my body just as would an invading cancer as well as do my best to get the rapist punished. Abortion is our right, without guilt, without compromise. As soon as we start speaking out against anti-choices as Domestic Terrorists, the sooner we can start waging war against those who would take away our rights. It will take RICO laws, fines and harsh imprisonment to break the so-called pro-life movement. Let’s help Wendy Davis win for Texas this year.

    • Defamate

      I have been to the websites of these various ‘abortion survivors’ and isn’t it funny, they all have a ‘store’ where they sell pro-life merchandise?

      They have basically turned a tragedy (what happened to their mom) into a profit making machine.

      • P. McCoy

        Obscene isn’t it. You would think that with gratitude for being alive if they feel that way, would come an awareness of the true violence that is rape and from that awareness would come the compassion not to exploit their mothers even further,. The fact that they do not shows that most of them are sociopathic narcissists. They have no respect.

    • HeilMary1

      I also haven’t heard any criticism of Sister Diana Ortiz who got an abortion after she was gang-raped, tortured, and forced to stab other political prisoners.

      • P. McCoy

        As well as no criticism when during a lawsuit a father made about the loss of twins at a Catholic hospital, the ” church” summarily declared that get used are not persons, therefore, then church should not be held liable.

        • Renee Goodwin

          Interesting that they would claim that in a case where they stood to lose money if the fetus was considered a child/baby/person, I wonder if that case could be used against the church for future reference? Heck if a fetus isn’t a person, how could a fertilized egg be a person?

    • Renee Goodwin

      Are you familiar with the bill going through congress, where a woman would have to justify/prove to the IRS that the medical deduction for her abortion was for a pregnancy caused by rape? What on earth is wrong with these people, have they no compassion for women?

      • VeggieTart

        No,Renee, they don’t. Reince Priebus is still convinced that their problem is their packaging; he doesn’t disagree with what Mike Huckabee said about women needing their “Uncle Sugar” because they can’t control their libidos, just with how he said it. In other words, it does reflect how Republicans think (for lack of a better term) about women, but the GOP needs to package it better.

        They have no compassion for anyone who isn’t rich, white, male, or “Christian”.

        • Renee Goodwin

          Yeah, I saw where they were saying that the GOP needs to adjust their “tone” when speaking of those types of things, not their thinking of course, just how they present it to the public (and women)

    • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

      Well said. Go Wendy!

    • fiona64

      “We accept her; one of us! We accept her; one of us!”

      (Bonus points to anyone who knows the reference …)

      • P. McCoy

        Thanks so much. I learned yesterday that crisis magazine, an online Catholic proselytizing publication, had blacklisted me too, from Discus. I sent an email straight to the editor telling them that I was honored to be blacklisted if it meant condemning a misogynistic, gay bashing, child predatorial., azyme (this refers to the fact that the original Christians used leavened bread in the service-the German speaking clergy forced the unleavened on the west, aping the Armenians, who made the change because they hated the Greeks who would become what we know as. Greek Orthodox Christians today) church. That will settle their hash for sure.