Marital Status Doesn’t Cause Poverty—Not Having Money Does


The uncontrolled woman who needs to be brought under the firm guidance of a man has long been a favorite villainous figure in the right-wing imagination, and lately one that might be the number one target for many social ills. The main reason is that growing income inequality and startling statistics—such as the fact that one in three Americans experienced poverty between 2009 and 2011—are making the discussion of economic justice unavoidable. And so, unable to just ignore the discussion completely, conservatives have decided to blame a favorite scapegoat—women who make sexual choices they disagree with—for the “choice” not to get married.

The strangest thing about the attacks on single women, especially single mothers, is how much conservatives seem to believe that women are actively avoiding marriage. To hear right-wing pundits and politicians talk, there are suitors lined up around the block for every single woman, but she refuses to accept them because, poisoned by feminism, she refuses to hear their pleas for love. You’d think, after immersing yourself in conservative arguments blaming single women for widespread poverty, that women are naturally repulsed by men and will only be with them out of necessity. Or that women have never heard of this nifty thing called “marriage” and just need some talking heads and op-ed columnists to sell them on the idea.

Media Matters rounded up some examples of this, the funniest of which is almost surely Washington Post columnist Kathleen Parker’s, who seems to think people are poor because no one told them getting married is awesome. “[M]arriage creates a tiny economy fueled by a magical concoction of love, selflessness and permanent commitment that holds spirits aloft during tough times,” she writes. Poor people: Parker knows you must be too stupid to want love, but she’s here to tell you that it’s great. Magic, even. Magical enough to cause money to start streaming into your bank account.

Parker scolds Republicans who “insinuate that single mothers are using welfare to avoid marriage,” suggesting that this is not a helpful thing to say. (Perhaps they would do better to imitate Parker and instead insinuate that poor people are ignorant of this institution “marriage” and indifferent to the appeal of love.) I imagine that she’s thinking of Republicans like Louie Gohmert, whose absolute bone-shaking fury that women who have children but aren’t married would prefer not to starve to death is, by his own measure, the reason he became a politician. Or perhaps she’s thinking of John Stossel, who recently tried to blame the “war on poverty” for making people poor by letting women off the hook with regard to marriage. (In reality, the “war on poverty” worked.)

In Parker’s eyes, the bad guy is the all-powerful reach of evil feminism:

Democrats avoid the M-word for fear of trespassing on important constituent turfs, especially women’s. For many women, the push for marriage is seen as subterfuge for reversing their hard-won gains.

Conservative bashers of single women, can’t you all just get along? Can’t it be a both/and fantasy, where low-income women, high on their women’s studies-based hatred of matrimony, have collectively decided to strike against men and their right to be cooked and cleaned for by turning to the welfare system instead? (Remember, the possibility that women might actually work for a living is pointedly ignored in this entire discourse. As is the possibility that many women who receive government assistance also work. Or are married. Or both.) Since you’re just making it all up anyway, why not go whole hog?

Being a good liberal, I’m generally a big fan of complexity and nuance, but interestingly enough, there are two issues that conservatives are making needlessly complicated in their effort to avoid talking about the real problem here: 1) why people are poor; and 2) why people are single. Both have simple, straightforward reasons. Of course, they are reasons that conservatives ignore, because admitting those reasons tends to make the solutions obvious—and the solutions are not things conservatives want to hear.

Why are people poor? Because they don’t have enough money. This is true regardless of what their personal choices are with regards to sex and family structure. The solution to the problem therefore is to get more money into their pockets by giving it to them. Two tried-and-true methods that have worked before: raising wages and directly giving money to poor people. That these things work is not a controversial statement in the reality-based world. The only reason they’re in dispute at all is because conservatives object on principle.

Why are people single? It is true that there’s a small percentage of people who don’t want to be in long-term, committed relationships that are formalized through marriage. But, on the whole, people aren’t married for one reason, and one reason only: They don’t have anyone suitable to be married to. Contrary to paranoid fantasies on the right, there isn’t a widespread marriage boycott organized by welfare offices, feminists, or some combination of the two. Most people want to be married, when they meet the right person. Low-income people value marriage more than people higher up the income ladder. So they’re really just holding out for true love. It’s the one thing that real life has in common with a romantic comedy.

Now, why it’s harder to find someone to be married to than it used to be is a bit more complex of a question. Ironically, one major reason is growing income inequality and declining employment opportunities. Building a life with someone else is hard when both of you are just barely getting by, it turns out. The truth is that marriage doesn’t improve your employment prospects, but as anyone who has ever dated ever can tell you, being gainfully employed definitely improves your ability to attract a mate, for both men and women. Feminism may play a small role in raising women’s expectations, particularly around being treated with respect, but what’s wrong with that?

So while it’s unfortunate that conservatives are trying to muddy the waters regarding the issue of poverty with all this marriage talk, the fact that the liberal arguments are simple is a point in our favor. When debating this topic, just remember: People are poor because they don’t have enough money, and straight women aren’t married because they haven’t met Mr. Right yet. Watching conservatives try to squirm around the obviousness of these facts should be entertaining, at least, but it should also help change some minds.

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  • Lynnsey

    I laugh hysterically at the “marriage will solve your money problems” conservatives. My ex-husband nearly bankrupted me with his spending habits. I still don’t know how I missed seeing it before we got married. I finally had to open a new bank account in order to have enough money to pay the bills (which he never contributed to). Prior to that he would spend so much that I often had to buy things like groceries and clothes for work with my credit card. It took a couple of years to pay off the damage from that. I’m re-married now and not ashamed to say that I was a lot more careful about the financial goals (not how much they made, but how they thought it should be used) of potential male partners after that experience.

    • lady_black

      I concur. My former sister-in-law was bankrupted by her husband. She didn’t start to climb out until she kicked him to the curb. Marriage is no magic wand for ANYTHING.

    • http://sayingnothingcharmingly.blogspot.com ChristinaM33

      Let me join in the chorus of divorce actually fixed my money problems that marriage caused.

    • HeilMary1

      In Topeka, KS, I met a dance student whose new husband of a couple days completely emptied her apartment of EVERYTHING.

      The made-for-TV movie “Scorned and Swindled” with Tuesday Weld was based on a real-life swindler polygamist who married dozens of women just to steal all their property! He convinced one antiques dealer to relocate her business so he could steal the whole van of her merchandise!

      Funny how the marriage bullies never mention GOP-enriching wars as the main cause of MISSING DEAD husbands!

      • Lynnsey

        I feel a little bit better that mine was just a financially illiterate man-child rather than an actual criminal…

    • http://web.elastic.org/~fche/ Frank Ch. Eigler

      “I laugh hysterically at the “marriage will solve your money problems” conservatives.”

      Considering that you’re laughing at Marcotte’s straw man quote, maybe she should go into comedy.

      • Lynnsey

        Her hobbies are her own business, I suppose. As for me, I’m laughing at the real-life conservatives that I’ve met personally who seem to think that marriage is a magical cure-all, particularly for money problems. That quote was my characterization of their position as I’ve experienced it, not a direct quote from Amanda’s writing.

        • http://web.elastic.org/~fche/ Frank Ch. Eigler

          “That quote was my characterization of their position as I’ve experienced it, not a direct quote from Amanda’s writing.”

          Fair enough. Perhaps you should go into comedy.

          • HeilMary1

            I second Lynnsey’s experiences with the marriage bullies.

          • CJ99

            and you should keep your knuckle dragging butt out of everyones business. You do not get to dictate the lives of others.

          • http://web.elastic.org/~fche/ Frank Ch. Eigler

            Thank you for the reminder. I shall henceforth stop dictating the lives of others. Don’t give me too much credit though, since I apprx. never “dictate the lives of others” anyway.

          • CJ99

            Suuuuuure, your such a fountain of credibility & virtue. I wouldn’t be surprised if your selling some prime swampfront real estate too with a free ford pinto tossed in as a bonus.

    • VenturaCapitalist

      You made a bad choice. That’s not my problem.

      • Lynnsey

        No one said it was your problem. I don’t recall you paying my credit card bills…

        And by the way, the gentleman who nearly bankrupted me would be considered conservative by nearly all measures, but you just keep assuming things.

        Cheers!

        • laurie66bay

          Sure he was….lol

          • fiona64

            Well, thank you Karnak the Magnificent! Obviously you are psychic, since you know so much about Lynnsey’s life …

      • colleen2

        Funny…you speak as if as if conservative ‘men’ were good husbands, faithful to their marriage vows rather than the cheap, abusive bastards we know y’all to be.

      • HeilMary1

        I’ve worked in Washington, DC for many years, directly with many conservative men, and most are hypocrite adulterous looksist jerks.

      • Lynnsey

        I don’t know who or what your edit here is meant to address, but I never said any of those things about conservative men in general. I said that my former husband, who happens to hold beliefs that would put him firmly in the conservative column by any reasonable stretch, was financially incompetent and that marriage to him was definitely not to my economic benefit.

      • CJ99

        You being a huge asshole is not the worlds problem. get over yourself.

    • Mark Power

      Typical female logic. Marriage doesn’t make good people; good people get married.
      Too many brain-dead Cali leftists have moved to Las Vegas. Get back to the hell you created, losers.

  • HeilMary1

    “conservatives seem to believe that women are actively avoiding marriage. To hear right-wing pundits and politicians talk, there are suitors lined up around the block for every single woman, but she refuses to accept them because, poisoned by feminism, she refuses to hear their pleas for love.”

    ConservaTURDS insult and libel single women, and should be shamed for actually causing millions of women to be single. I could be the poster girl refuting their hooey.

    1. It’s women’s looks, stupid.
    a. Centerfold-spoiled men can’t run away fast enough from even so-so women, and that goes double and triple for aging, unattractive or disabled women, and quadruple for women with kids. And GOP men are the most looksist of all.
    b. Environmental pollution, like radiation from A-bomb tests and oil spills, and
    CIA-sponsored terrorist bombs don’t improve the looks of area residents when they all go bald or lose limbs.
    c. Gays are no longer meekly hiding behind straight sham marriages.
    d. Plastic surgery is very expensive and isn’t covered by insurance or Medicaid. This
    is hardest on minimum wage women who are supporting kids abandoned by husbands
    and who are disfigured by spousal abuse.
    e. Many men don’t want kids EVER because pregnancy ruins women’s looks and causes bankruptcies from related expenses.
    f. Pretend-celibate priests and nuns shouldn’t be let off the hook of singles-shaming.

    2. Except for China and India, most countries have huge surpluses of women, thanks to religion and resource wars.

    3. Greedy GOPers, with their slave master attacks on unions, paid time-off, equal pay,
    daycare and affordable health care, have left most singles working killer hours just to avoid homelessness. Most singles are just too pooped to party most nights of the year, and those years of drudgery quickly become decades.

  • Ineedacoffee

    Id make them conservatives cry
    I will never marry, think the whole thing is stupid, its traditional meaning shines through more than the christian fancy up
    If I ever were to entertain the idea it would only be once EVERYONE could marry

    • laurie66bay

      lololol. By the way, I am laughing at you, not with you. Just in case it wasnt clear.

      • Ineedacoffee

        Oh um ouch, was that supposed to hurt, shall I say it does to make you feel big and tough?

        • laurie66bay

          So are you holding out from marriage until polygamous marriage is legalized as well?

          • Ineedacoffee

            If thats how some wish to live, thats their choice. They wont be hurting me.
            And I said entertain the idea, meaning it would still be no marriage but I would give it more than a fleeting though

          • laurie66bay

            Good to know you have no standards at all when it comes to the institution of marriage. Now you know why some of us are defending the institution from people who want to redefine it away. In any case, men around the country will surely be in mourning now that they realize you are off the market.

          • colleen2

            Please go ‘defend the institution’ on Rush Limbaugh’s show and in the La Governor’s race.

          • laurie66bay

            “Shut up”, she explained.

          • goatini

            Oh, please tell us all about that famous “defender of the institution” and well-known NOLA call girl patron, Senator Diapers Vitter.

          • colleen2

            You really need to find another blog. You appear to be overly sensitive

          • laurie66bay

            I like it here. I think I’m going to stay. Ms Marcotte provides so much hilarious material.

          • CJ99

            His diaper rash no doubt.

          • HeilMary1

            If you really supported marriage, you’d oppose husband-whacking wars that leave millions of women widows, spinsters and divorcees.

          • laurie66bay

            I do. I opposed the German invasion of Poland in 1939. I opposed the North Korean invasion of South Korea in 1950. I opposed the North Vietnamese invasion of South Vietnam. I opposed the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. I oppose the hell out of wars of aggression. But what do you care. You don’t have a husband anyway and don’t want one.

          • goatini

            Please, don’t even try to pretend you were born before, at best, 1975.

          • laurie66bay

            Why? I’m actually curious what your thinking is on this…. I don’t claim to have been around to witness the German and Soviet invasion of Poland but where did 1975 come from and why would you think its not possible I was born before that?

          • goatini

            Well, because it’s completely obvious that you have no memory of America prior to the GOP decimation of the middle and lower classes which began in earnest in 1980.

          • laurie66bay

            there’s a reason I have no memory of it, because it didn’t happen. lol I do remember what happened before 1980. And FYI, after the recession (which started under Carter) ended in approx 1980, the poverty rate declined under the remainder of Reagan’s first and second terms.

          • HeilMary1

            Poverty increased dramatically under Reagan because he started outsourcing our jobs to China.

          • laurie66bay

            Statistics disagree with you. And it was Bill Clinton who started signing the free trade agreements. Remember the Gore-Perot debates? China in 1980 was still mostly communist and most people were still going around in the green fatigues. Deng Xiaoping had only recently been released from prison for not being sufficiently communist. They hadn’t even started building up any significant export trade.

          • CJ99

            And the real world calls you a liar, rightly so indeed.

          • goatini

            Thanks for proving my point so succinctly, kiddo.

          • CJ99

            reality would be at best 1995 in his case.

          • goatini

            I think you’re right, I smell home skooling and early admissions to Jerry Falwell U.

          • CJ99

            I think it was Ronald McDonald U (there really is a name of their training program back in the 80’s) where he got his Associate Fry guy degree.

          • HeilMary1

            B*tch, I DO want a husband! — that’s why I took up belly dancing and $100,000 in plastic surgery, but MARRIED and marriage-eschewing GOP playboys are a waste of time. And the Dems already have wives.

            And I opposed the Bushes financing Hitler so he could invade all of his neighbors. I opposed pedophile Cardinal Spellman bullying the Pentagon into forcing North Vietnamese Buddhist “heretics” to invade South Vietnam so Catholic genociders like the Diem brothers and Madame Nhu could exterminate them.

          • laurie66bay

            And the 100k in plastic surgery and belly dancing didn’t help huh? And you claim to be a feminist?? I am more of a feminist than you are.

          • HeilMary1

            Feminism, you fascist b*tch, is about equal pay and equal rights. Feminism helped me get equal wages, redress for insults about my disfigured face, and affordable BC pills for radiation-induced acne. The plastic surgery was for disfigurement caused by my sex-hating Catholic extremist mother.

          • goatini

            The MRAs don’t want us to have any resources, recourses, or redresses. They want for all females to be forced to depend upon the largesse of males.

          • colleen2

            Pretty much. Women scare them and all bullies are cowards at heat.

          • laurie66bay

            Your mother was insane. Had nothing to do with political beliefs. The sooner you understand that, the happier you will be. And if you have equal pay, you arent poor.

          • HeilMary1

            For the deleted laurie comment:

            My mom, like millions, was driven insane by the pedophile priest-serving RCC. Minimum wage equal pay between the sexes makes neither sex middle income, idiot.

          • CJ99

            Nope sorry fool your just a pig wearing perfume impersonating a princess.

          • fiona64

            You’re about as feminist as Rush Limbaugh.

          • CJ99

            As neither is really a man its true. even without that consideration its still very true.

          • fiona64

            Right. You were alive i n1939. Of course you were.

          • CJ99

            Actually his crystal ball told him.

          • goatini

            “defending the institution”

            So, can we surmise you also oppose marriage equality?

          • laurie66bay

            All marriages are equal. But not every couple (or triad) is a marriage. lol

          • goatini

            So, how about the Mayor of Houston, and the Mayor’s wife?

          • laurie66bay

            the mayor of houston is “married”. Not married.

          • goatini

            Ms Parker and her wife are indeed married. And thanks for letting us know who the bigot here is.

          • laurie66bay

            lol. Do they have a pretty colorful paper to prove it? lol

          • fiona64

            Many same-sex couples have a “pretty colorful paper” to prove it, just as many straight couples do. And I have no doubt that this pisses you off mightily. Learn to live with the disappointment.

          • colleen2

            Got it. Newt Gingrich is married. A same sex couple who have been monogamous, decent and loving to each other for 25 years are ‘married’. Thank you for demonstrating, once again, the shortcomings of Traditional family values. Why would anyone want to emulate such an absurdly twisted and hateful set of values, particularly coming as it does from folks like yourself who take pride in your aggressive assholeness.
            The American conservative movement has become a voice for pathetic men who want to blame everyone else for the harm they do and the pain they cause. Fortunately we do not need the approval of hypocritical assholes to live decent lives. Please find another blog.

          • CJ99

            what you think of as marraige is only an institution the same way prison is an institution. thank the creator trolls like you have no real power.

          • fiona64

            Good to know you have no standards at all when it comes to the institution of marriage.

            You really should not give up your day job to become part of the Dionne Warwick Psychic Friends Network. Just because someone does not want to get married does NOT mean they have “no standards at all.”

            Now you know why some of us are defending the institution from people who want to redefine it away.

            Marriage has been “redefined” countless times across history and cultures. It is an elastic institution. It has been “redefined” within my own lifetime via Loving v. Virginia. Just because you think gay people are icky (which is obviously what you’re getting at) does not mean that those people should be denied the same rights you enjoy.

          • CJ99

            there was a time in his life he thought “all girls are icky throw rocks at them” which was last week.

          • Ineedacoffee

            Oh I have standards, I treat ALL people with respect and think we should all have EQUAL rights
            I dont want to dictate how they live.

            Oh and I was never ‘on the market’ Im NOT an object for sale, im a woman.

          • HeilMary1

            You adulterous wife-dumping hero Newt Gingrich already practices polygamy.

          • laurie66bay

            lol. Ad Hominem much? Ant no he doesnt. Last time I checked, Polygamy is having more than one wife or husband simultaneously. At least it is according to people who believe there are actual definitions for things. lol

          • HeilMary1

            Gingrich practices unofficial polygamy with all the side mistresses Call-Girl-ista shares him with.

          • laurie66bay

            How’s that any different than how you live your life?

          • colleen2

            None of the women here live the pathetic, debased life of a Republican wife

          • laurie66bay

            No, your patheticness and debasement seems to be of a very different nature. lol

          • HeilMary1

            I’m not part of any GOP Tiffany bauble harem.

      • CJ99

        Sooo whats what you call the flatulant noise your butts emitting.

  • laurie66bay

    So you all ARE actually opposed to marriage. Interesting…Very interesting….

    • Amanda Kazarian

      Some of us are actually married. Interesting, very interesting.

      • colleen2

        Some of us are HAPPILY married and certainly not to conservatives.

        • HeilMary1

          Yeah, all the nice faithful liberal men are already taken, which is another reason why I gave up looking — only the whiny conservaTURD modelizers are left at singles bars (including MARRIED John McCain whom I met the now defunct Yacht Club in Bethesda!).

    • HeilMary1

      Hardly anyone has tried harder than spinster me to find a husband: I often worked 100 hour work weeks to fund $100,000 in plastic surgery to repair the scars inflicted by my anti-abortion terrorist Catholic mother, and I also practiced belly dancing. Bottom line on conservaTURD “family values” cads in DC: No matter how aging, homely, ill-mannered, and “between White House consulting jobs” they are, they all demand natural teen beauty queens for wives. This means all women past their mid-twenties and with average looks can forget finding husbands. And most conservaTURD playboys HATE kids. Just ask their deserted first wives and kids!

      • laurie66bay

        Ah, I get it. You are jealous of people who look better than you. Relax dear. Its whats inside that matters. The sooner you realize that, the happier you will be.

        • HeilMary1

          No, b*tch, I discovered as a child that looks really are EVERYTHING, which is why most GOP women are cheated on, traded in, or, like Coultergeist, never get to the altar in the first place. If looks truly didn’t matter, why do all GOP men trade up?

          • laurie66bay

            Wow. Someone’s got a chip on her shoulder. If someone left you, maybe they did “trade up”, regardless of who they ended up with afterward.

          • HeilMary1

            B*tch, my anti-abortion childbirth fistula-incontinent mom burned all my skin off in first grade as her permanent abstinence excuse to avoid dad divorcing her. You can’t imagine the abuse I’ve been through because of your rules.

          • laurie66bay

            That has nothing to do with abstinence. That is someone committing a violent crime and was probably crazy.

          • HeilMary1

            My Catholic mom was allowed abstinence-only as her only means of avoiding another deadly pregnancy, so a playboy priest, who was banging the Orioles’ wives, urged her to disfigure me as her abstinence excuse to avoid another “genetic” monster like me.

        • CJ99

          Nope your just jealous of all those who could get married knowing nobodies gonna go for a lying ass troll, that being you.

  • http://web.elastic.org/~fche/ Frank Ch. Eigler

    … or you could consider what could be a more accurate characterization of the conservative PoV: If more people waited till marriage to make babies, there would be fewer single parents, and they would be on average better off.

    How crazy does that sound?

    • Goldenblack

      It’s probably an accurate characterization, but the logic is still dodgy – the majority of all single parents were once married. The demographic is mostly made up by divorced parents, but roughly five percent are widowed. Presumably waiting might increase the later percentage…

      It reminds me of seeing ultrasounds touted as the cure for abortion – as if people who are not already mothers are the largest or only group seeking abortions.

      • http://web.elastic.org/~fche/ Frank Ch. Eigler

        “but the logic is still dodgy – the majority of all single parents were once married”

        Perhaps those ones don’t contribute as much to the poverty situation (with child support etc.). Even if not, the apprx. 40% of births to unmarried mothers were to decline, that could make a serious dent.

        • HeilMary1

          Keep in mind that many never married mothers WILL NEVER GET HUSBANDS because you war profiteers MURDERED their fiances in holy oil wars. You husband killers make your fortunes killing off your hot stud competition by leaving military service as their ONLY EMPLOYMENT OPTION.

          • http://web.elastic.org/~fche/ Frank Ch. Eigler

            Sorry, how is that in topic? Are you saying pregnancy before marriage is caused by the fathers being killed off between impregnation and marriage?

          • HeilMary1

            Wars create massive male shortages, thereby forcing single, married, divorced and widowed women to share the married women’s husbands. And playboy priests like the founder and heir of Legionairies of Christ fathered plenty of out-of-wedlock kids.

          • CJ99

            Such was common during the soviet union during the post WW2 years, far from the only example either.

          • HeilMary1

            Yes, but GOP women-blamers pretend such war-profiteering imbalances are “patriotic”.

        • fiona64


          Perhaps those ones don’t contribute as much to the poverty situation (with child support etc.).

          Right, because there are no deadbeats … and no judges who award support payments of $1/month. http://www.nbc12.com/story/21416300/judge-orders-1-a-month-in-child-support

          the apprx. 40% of births to unmarried mothers

          Citation needed.

    • colleen2

      Perhaps if you managed to stop raising sons that rape their dates and keep your own pants zipped it would help.

      • http://web.elastic.org/~fche/ Frank Ch. Eigler

        Then congratulations are clearly in order: my sons have never raped. Thank you, thank you, thank you! I couldn’t’ve done it without you.

        • colleen2

          I feel quite certain that you have taught them to disrespect and exploit women. It is, after all, your hobby to troll blogs just to denigrate and verbally abuse women and pretend that women and women alone are responsible for unwanted pregnancies and child poverty. How unspeakably lame of you. It’s just impossible to have any respect for men and women like this.My contempt is endless.

          • http://web.elastic.org/~fche/ Frank Ch. Eigler

            Not one of your accusations is true.

            “pretend that women and women alone are responsible”

            I said or implied nothing of the sort. Modern days have made members of both genders act far less responsibly (in the sense of treading lightly on life-altering activities) than appropriate.

          • colleen2

            Your behavior here speaks for itself. Naturally, being a conservative ‘man’ you refuse to accept responsibility.

          • CJ99

            Actually you did just say it, now your taking the piss cause you’re once again outed.

    • HeilMary1

      Most of the single mothers I know WERE MARRIED, but their husbands left them over pregnancy disfigurements and childcare expenses.

      • http://web.elastic.org/~fche/ Frank Ch. Eigler

        I’m sorry to hear it – the overall idea is larger than individual stories though. (I wonder how much these slimy-sounding men end up saving with respect to childcare expenses, considering divorce-court child-support.)

        • Jennifer Starr

          Sigh. More MRA whining…

          • http://web.elastic.org/~fche/ Frank Ch. Eigler

            No, I feel no pity for fathers who abandon their families. My point is just that those who do for reasons of finances should be (and AFAIK, are) punished by the legal system sufficiently to make such a move self-defeating.

          • colleen2

            Right, because children don’t need to eat every DAY.

          • CJ99

            Your point is you feel nothing contempt for the abandoned mothers & children.

          • HeilMary1

            No surprise there!

          • HeilMary1

            Most fathers get away with paying little or nothing.

          • Mindy McIndy

            No kidding. Take my wife, for example. Her father left her mother, paid $75 a month for two children, barely paid child support, and then wanted the child support lowered because he had a new family to support.

          • colleen2

            Your solution appears to go online and berate and denigrate women you do not know, who do not want to know you. And that makes you and your religion, not just useless but malignant. You’re just a guy who thinks that bullying and denigrating women makes him a man. It does the opposite.

          • http://web.elastic.org/~fche/ Frank Ch. Eigler

            Your misidentification of general disagreement as “bullying” and “denigrating women” reflects poorly. In this case, it’s particularly ironic, because my two prior postings in this subthread were actually criticisms of bad men.

          • colleen2

            The fact that you are unable to accept personal responsibility for your behavior is a defining characteristic of MRM’s. It is one of the traits that makes you shitty husbands and fathers, You lack integrity.

          • colleen2

            bullshit. Your postings here have been deliberately and seriously insulting to any woman with an ounce of aself respect., Please fuck off.

          • CJ99

            Your abuse of humanity that you classify as somehow being supportive of women is more than just misdirection, its bullshit.

          • CJ99

            Notice he feels pity for deadbeats but not the famlies they abandon.

  • Mark Power

    Women always try to live at the expense of men. We must end the welfare state and women will then stop breeding bastards.

    • Amanda Kazarian

      Then contribute to your cause and get a vasectomy, easy!

    • colleen2

      Perhaps if men like you stopped having sex with the evil, exploitive women things would get better.

    • Jennifer Starr

      Right, because clearly these women get pregnant all by themselves….

      • CJ99

        Yeah he read bout all those verr jun births in the buybull.

    • expect_resistance

      That’s complete bull! I know plenty of women including myself who are the family “bread winners” or they make the majority of the money.

      • Mark Power

        At a make-work government job that adds no value to our society. You are a parasite. Children need fathers.

        • Defamate

          t a make-work government job that adds no value to our society.

          citation needed, babycakes

        • CJ99

          Tell that to the firefighters who rescue your sorry ass after you fell asleep smokin pot in bed. Or the social workers who direct you to the psych care you so desparately need.

          You’re scum.

          • Mark Power

            Socialist filth, get out of my county while you can.

          • CJ99

            It’s not “your country” and I’m not in it. I live in a place without you thank gawd for that. buh bye loser.

        • HeilMary1

          How about all the wasteful make-work military jobs that loot our Treasury to enrich the Bush, Cheney and Koch crime families?

          • expect_resistance

            Or David Vitter? (aka diaper boy)

          • HeilMary1

            The entire bill-obstructing GOP!

          • expect_resistance

            And Carl Rove.

        • expect_resistance

          That’s funny. *eyeroll* Care you explain your unfounded statement?

          • Mark Power

            80% of those in prison are from single mothers, aka bastards.

          • HeilMary1

            Most of their mothers were married to beaters, asshat.

          • Mark Power

            The stupid cows wanted bad boys, instead of decent men. They and their bastard progeny deserve to starve.

          • expect_resistance

            That doesn’t explain your asinine post. You claimed I’m a “parasite.” How so? That’s a wildly unfounded claim. And then you said, “Children need fathers.” You’re saying that fathers should pay child support. I would agree. I don’t have children so I wouldn’t know.

          • CJ99

            Other than your time in the joint do you have any real evidence?

            not holding breath on that 1, I know its not forthcoming.

      • goatini

        Another breadwinner here.

  • HulaHoops

    Lack of money is in fact NOT the cause of poverty, it’s the definition of it. What characterizes and defines something is not what causes it. A term and it’s definition is not a causal relation. I don’t know how much more plainly to state that. How can you screw up logic this catastrophically?

    There are a lot of reasons why people wind up with little money. Usually it’s because they made poor choices. (Like somehow despite all the evidence not noticing a spouse can’t manage money.) And they often remain clueless after the fact saying “I don’t know how that happened.” Maybe marriage *does* magically cause money to appear, I don’t know, I just know that most people who don’t have children out of wedlock and get married tend to not be poor, at least not chronically. That’s just a simple fact. So maybe it really is magic, that must be it. Or maybe there’s an actual real reason that people who can share work and expenses and have stable emotional support somehow just do better at life than people who don’t have that. I don’t know, its such a mystery…

    I agree though that straight women aren’t finding Mr Right. That tends to happen when they are conditioned to set the bar so high. There just aren’t that many high status men to go around.

    • Lynnsey

      Your understanding of poverty is quite over-simplified. “Lack of money” is not, in fact, the definition of poverty. Poverty is a complex situation and while a lack of money is certainly one dimension of that situation, it is not the sole determining factor.

      From the United Nations’ Indicators of Poverty & Hunger…”Fundamentally, poverty is the inability of getting choices and opportunities, a violation of human dignity. It means lack of basic capacity to participate effectively in society. It means not having enough to feed and clothe a family, not having a school or clinic to go to, not having the land on which to grow one’s food or a job to earn one’s living, not having access to credit. It means insecurity, powerlessness and exclusion of individuals, households and communities. It means susceptibility to violence, and it often implies living in marginal or fragile environments, without access to clean water or sanitation.”

      • laurie66bay

        Then you disagree with the author of this blog who states that not having money causes poverty. Its convenient that she displays such ignorance right in the title of the “article”, something that saves a lot of people time that they would have otherwise spent having to read the article to realize how ignorant of the facts the author is.

        Turning to you, your definition is not of the the cause of poverty either, but rather the effects of poverty. Sometimes people are poor through no poor choices of their own, eg they are born in a socialist country where there are actual impediments to people who want to better themselves and the state often stands in the way of growth that could help people get out of poverty, but that is not the case in America. People in America are largely poor because they make poor choices and poverty is the situation they find themselves in as a result of their poor choices. Pretending poverty in the US is just this random thing that is imposed on people for their entire lives is counter productive.

        • Lynnsey

          My comment in no way denies that not having money is a factor in poverty. In fact, I believe I addressed that a lack of money is often one dimension of poverty. It’s just not the definition of it. Poverty is vastly more complex than just not having money. Further, I never presented my (or, rather, the United Nations’) definition as the *cause* of poverty, either. I presented it as a more nuanced description of what poverty means in practice rather than, again, being as simple as not having money. The causes of poverty are even more complex and not something we’re going to pin down, let alone find solutions to, in the comment thread of an internet blog.

          Do you know what else is counterproductive? Pretending that *everyone* who is poor in America is that way because they were just lazy and stupid rather than it having anything at all to do with decades of failed policies that destroyed opportunities for lower and middle class people, gutted protections for workers and consumers, and tilted the whole game in favor of the rich.

          • laurie66bay

            Most people in America are poor because they were either lazy or stupid. Or maybe more accurately, if they stay poor they are more likely to be either lazy or stupid. We have seen the biggest increase in poverty over the last 5 years, during a period in which “supposedly” the government reversed those evil policies you claim were causing all the poor. And it made people poorer. What does that tell you? Incompetents who think they can micromanage an economy do more harm than good, for the people dumb enough to vote for them.

          • Lynnsey

            It tells me that your understanding of economic principles and policy is shaky at best.

            Cheers!

          • laurie66bay

            Yes, me and my poor University Honors degree in Economics. lol. I have no understanding at all compared to people who write screeds like the embarassment above all these comments, or those who get their definitions from UN Reports, an organization of dictators that has caused more suffering than syphillis . lol

          • fiona64

            Yes, I’m sure you have just such a degree. For my part, I’m an astronaut and a coloratura soprano with the Met.

            (I never take people’s claims of prowess seriously on the internet, where you can claim to be anything and everything …)

          • laurie66bay

            Seriously, who would claim to have an economics degree when there are much better lies available. I might as well claim to be an accountant. lol

          • Lynnsey

            I’ve always found it interesting that, despite the fact that less than a third of Americans have a Bachelor’s degree, everyone on the internet invariably has one in whatever they’re commenting on…

          • CJ99

            So where did Laurie get his BS in BS?

          • CJ99

            yes I studied under Sergei Korolov & Werner Vaun Braun, 2 very smart guys btw. that’s how I developed the skills to keep santas sleigh working so well ;P

          • colleen2

            Yes, and once a year I am the Easter Bunny.

          • CJ99

            So that’s why he’s so mad, you missed his house last year ;P

          • Defamate

            Yeah? I once met a young earth creationist who claimed to have singlehandedly designed the communications systems for mars spirit and rover. She told me this so that I would shut up and take her word that zygotes are babies and that god created the universe in 7 days.

          • laurie66bay

            You know, they have great medications available for delusional people these days. You should check it out.

          • Defamate

            I’m not the one who feels the need to lie about her accomplishments to attempt to shut people up through the ‘argument from authority’

          • laurie66bay

            If I was trying to appeal to authority, I would be quoting straight economics to you which you wouldn’t be able to understand, and then claiming it proves you are wrong. You are the one trying to appear to anti-authority claiming that because a mental patient spewed something insane to you about one thing, and then spoke out against abortion, then because they were crazy about the first thing, then that means they were also crazy about the second thing. Logic doesnt work that way. Even if a person is crazy, it doesn’t follow that everything they say is automatically incorrect. And no, I don’t have a philosophy degree.

          • Defamate

            No, you are saying that we must accept your word at face value because you have studied economics

            big woop

            The only thing that matters is the soundness of your arguments, and so far they are quite weak and lacking in substance.

          • laurie66bay

            there are none so blind as those who will not see.

          • Defamate

            Worthless aphorisms all you’ve got sweetie?

          • goatini

            “I would be quoting straight economics to you which you wouldn’t be able to understand”

            You really think you’re quite the very precious, special little snowflake, aren’t you?

            Failure to agree does NOT mean failure to understand. Though those who are propagandists for the Chicago School and the Austrian School tend to tell themselves that those who do NOT agree with their principles, “don’t understand”.

          • HeilMary1

            Nazi party doll, are you spiteful because you missed your limo ride while you were puking in the ladies room?

          • CJ99

            Why would defamate be looking thorugh your medicine cabinet?

          • fiona64

            You’re speaking from primary experience, I presume …

          • CJ99

            Homeschooling does not equal University.

            too freakin bad for you.

          • fiona64

            Most people in America are poor because they were either lazy or stupid.

            Yeah, because those people I mentioned above, working two or three jobs? Are so obviously lazy.

            Back way from Faux News and *learn something.*

          • laurie66bay

            Working two or three jobs. lol. That was a concept when people had pride and didn’t want to go on welfare. Maybe in the Obama economy, you have someone working 3 jobs to get three 8 hours shifts, and they think that is enough. How about working 80 hours a week? I guarantee you, anyone with the drive to work 80 hours a week won’t be poor for long. Cant say the same for the guy working his 16hours a week at Taco Bell and demanding a “living wage” so he can buy more xbox games

          • HeilMary1

            B*tch, I’m not wealthy, but I often have worked 100 hour work weeks, including 30+hour shifts, just to avoid being fired. Well-paying and low-paying jobs don’t grow on trees for us spinsters who were disfigured by anti-abortion terrorist parents.

          • laurie66bay

            Then you need to upgrade your skills instead of complaining.

          • HeilMary1

            That’s not doable with 100 hour work weeks, no money, and more jobs being outsourced to Asia.

          • goatini

            “Moar bootstraps!”

          • laurie66bay

            If you spent half the time you spend in leftist blog echo chambers, actually learning marketable skills, you’d be better off.

          • goatini

            And if you cut down the inordinate amount of time you spend on the Lew Rockwell and the Daily Paul echo chambers, you’d be much better off.

          • laurie66bay

            lol. I had to google them. Its hilarious that you know who they are thought.

          • goatini

            Oh, you just dabble at the Matty Drudge level, then.

          • CJ99

            If you actually had an education you’d be empolyed yourself instead of flinging shit from mommies basement all day. Yeah you got caught again BOO HOO.

          • laurie66bay

            Hahaha. I wish you knew how much I earned while having fun with you. There is such a thing as multitasking tu sais…And at the risk of introducing you to something outside your experience area, its got nothing to do with se x work. Or belly dancing. lol

          • CJ99

            Asking your mommie for $20 and a ride to the mall isn’t multitasking. And if you wanna call me a prostitute go ahead & say it to my face. That would be the first & last time you’d be close to a man. Yeah I’m saying your not a man. The only laughter here is directed at you for thinking that a piece of human trash (being you) is anything other than a steaming pile. as for what you earned this week, everyone knows its under a $1.98.

          • fiona64

            And who’s paying your salary, sweetie? Does hubster give you an allowance so you can shoot your mouth off about shit you clearly don’t understand, but can still dine out with all the other hipster moos mommies on Park Slope?

          • HeilMary1

            It’s my civic duty to warn citizens about you neo Nazis so that more people don’t end up disfigured by you goons like me.

          • colleen2

            So, how much does being an intellectual prostitute pay?

          • CJ99

            so says you the unemployed uneducated ass clown.

          • fiona64

            Again, I recommend that you read Barbara Ehrenreich’s excellent “Nickled and Dimed” and educate yourself about the working poor.

            Thanks for proving my suspicion, though; you presume that the working poor are just lazy … and nothing could be further from the proof. You are one nasty bitch who needs to learn how to check her privilege at the door.

          • CJ99

            Fiona, that is not a woman, it is he who is not a man. That is nothing but a slob in a male body but not 1 shred of humanity.

          • colleen2

            I tend to agree on this but I assure you I know many conservative women without a shred of humanity. They REALLY enjoy looking down on others, particularly people of color and the poor.

          • Defamate
          • goatini

            A book by an actual economist? 66 will run from it like it’s Kryptonite.

          • goatini

            Revisionism at its worst – the income disparity issues in this country have been accruing since the late 1970s, and they were aided and abetted into immense and rapid acceleration by the GOTP beginning in 1980. And it’s intellectually dishonest to even purport that 5 years, even if Congress had NOT been bound and determined (as it was and is) to obstruct each and every attempt to swing the income disparity pendulum back, could possibly “reverse” 30+ years of active malicious harm done to the American middle and lower classes since 1980.

          • laurie66bay

            lol. Yeah, the middle class was doing just dandy in 1979 during the first “Obama” administration (otherwise known as the Jimmy Carter years). lol. So funny.

          • goatini

            Thanks for conclusively proving that your alleged “University Honors degree in Economics” is either complete BS, or from that noted Bu$hCo staffer degree mill, Jerry Falwell U.

          • CJ99

            A mail order diploma on his mommies credit card after he dropped out of devry in the 1st semester.

          • HeilMary1

            You mean the double digit inflation Carter inherited from criminal Nixon??

          • goatini

            Appreciate that, HM. Those of us who were actually adult persons in the 70s have factual recollections, as opposed to the young ‘uns who try to catapult revisionist fake “history” as fact. 66 needs to stop trying to push the David Barton false “Christianist” lies.

          • colleen2

            Most people in America are poor because they were either lazy or stupid.

            Ah, the voice of the Christian right.

          • laurie66bay

            You don’t like Christians do you? In fact, I suspect you don’t like anyone who doesn’t believe the same things you do. There’s a word for people like this. Intolerant? Prejudiced? Bigot? Take your pick.

          • Defamate

            Awww. You are such a martyr. Like those poor millionaires who complain that they feel like they are being ‘lynched’ whenever the subject of higher tax rates for the 1% is broached.

            Whatcha gonna do next? Complain that we are enslaving you?

          • laurie66bay

            Ah, so hating people because of their religion is acceptable in your worldview…is it?

          • Defamate

            Keep grasping at straws, it isn’t gonna work, cupcake.

          • CJ99

            cupcake, him? I’ve completely gone off dessert now ;P

          • HeilMary1

            You Nazi pharisees believe in stealing from and poisoning the working poor, then blaming those sickly poor because YOU MADE THEM THAT WAY.

          • CJ99

            Hey fool, its supposed to be three 6’s in your disqus ID not 2.

          • laurie66bay

            Why would it matter. You don’t believe in God anyway. lol

          • goatini

            Organized religion has ZERO to do with God,

          • laurie66bay

            Thanks Rev Goatini. lol. Any more tidbits of wisdum?

          • CJ99

            Heres a few hints for you:

            – you are not god
            – you don’t know god nor does he know you.
            – you don’t know me
            – you don’t have clue 1 of which you speak

            this leads to a few other facts:

            – your petty tirades mean NOTHING
            – you can take nothing away from my (or anyone elses) life
            – my friends know me, you clearly do not.
            – my education, work, friends, achievements all speak for themselves, you do not.
            – I know the creator exists, it is you who is not believed.
            – A year from now my life, my friends & I will still be here, you will be forgotton.

            I know that pisses you off to no end. All your pitiful raging & shit filled hypocrosy changes nothing. All your doing is providing more fuel on the fire that burns you. Bear in mind my last statement, that is most telling, that both myself and others here will be quite fine & very happy after your gone. Our lives will continue….without you.

          • Jennifer Starr

            They claim martyrdom if someone says ‘Happy Holidays’ instead of ‘Merry Christmas’– it’s a persecution complex.

          • CJ99

            as they scream “you’re trying to destroy christmas!!! oh NOES!!!”

          • goatini

            Get off the cross, someone needs the wood.

          • HeilMary1

            You hateful greedy pharisees were Christ’s biggest target.

          • laurie66bay

            I’m not Jewish, however your characterization of them as hateful and greedy is typical of the hate of modern leftists.

          • goatini

            Projection 101 – SO obvious, coming from 66, the big hate-dripper here.

          • HeilMary1

            You are the latter day “Christian” equivalent of a hateful greedy pharisee. And I don’t know any Jews who fit that pharisee stereotype from the Gospels. But “Christian” GOPers sure fit.

          • laurie66bay

            nice try to cover up. lol. “No, I don’t hate Jews…some of my best friends are Jews…but I do hate christians”.lol

          • HeilMary1

            For laurie whose comment was deleted:

            You mean the “Christians” who ran the Nazi death camps?

          • CJ99

            Very true. I’ve said it before but If jesus were here now & made his presence known christians would be first in line at the lynch mob.

          • colleen2

            If people like you are actually Christians then it is a useless, destructive and hateful religion

          • laurie66bay

            See. I was right. You are prejudiced.

          • HeilMary1

            Bigot, you’re the one hurling boulders on the poor and disabled here on behalf of billionaires.

          • laurie66bay

            I don’t work for Soros. lol.

            Btw, wait for my moderated link to appear below. Contains link to cool song I think will help you.

          • goatini

            “Soros”

            Drink!

          • HeilMary1

            I mean the Nazi Koch brothers.

          • CJ99

            again you describe yourself. heres another fact you’d know if you’d bothered to finish school: Hitler was catholic & his thoughts mirror your own.

          • laurie66bay

            I think its safe to say that Hitler wasn’t exactly a very observant catholic. lololol. Fair warning. You are coming dangerously close to me invoking Godwins law on you.

          • CJ99

            Any minute now your gonna claim you got to know him personally same time you “met” jean cretien.

          • colleen2

            Having read your comments here I think it’s safe to say that you’re not very observant either. Invoke away, asshole. Nobody cares.

          • HeilMary1

            “lazy or poor”

            Another name for the non-aborted! They sure hate fetuses after birth!

          • Defamate

            Well that certainly accounts for all of the stupid, poor, pro-life, republican *married* asshats who live in the southern USA doesn’t it?

          • laurie66bay

            Lol. Hello Ms Bigot.

          • Defamate

            Just showing you the mirror, so you can look into it.

          • goatini

            You beat me to it.

          • HeilMary1

            Me too!

          • laurie66bay

            I know you are but what am I. Lol. I haven’t used that one since elementary school. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.

          • Defamate

            It is still valid, in your case.

          • CJ99

            How your wasted life could’ve been different if you hadn’t skipped elementary school before dropping out. though I doubt even finishing highschool could fully correct your intelectual indolence.

          • laurie66bay

            lol. I got all the degrees I need thanks.

          • CJ99

            *yawn* can you try not lying even just once?

            I thought not ;P

          • HeilMary1

            Mail order forgeries!

          • CJ99

            But he’s got “bachelors of BIBLE!! taa daaa!”and Masters of Durp leading up to his Piled High & Deep.

          • HeilMary1

            You beat me! I should have scrolled further down!

          • HeilMary1

            Is that your nickname for your reflection?

          • CJ99

            What you so clearly describe is yourself.

        • fiona64

          People in America are largely poor because they make poor choices and
          poverty is the situation they find themselves in as a result of their
          poor choices.

          Horatio Alger called; he wants his fantasy world back. You need to look up things like medical bankruptcy (the cause of the majority of bankruptcies in the US is catastrophic medical bills). Yes, damn those people who got cancer … clearly they chose that, and should have just been smarter so that they did not develop a disease for which medications costs thousands of dollars *per day.*

          And those people who were laid off when their companies shut down due to offshoring, they obviously chose that.as well.

          And finally, the working poor (whom you probably snub every time you enter a fast food establishment) are frequently working two to three jobs to get by. You might want to read “Nickled and Dimed,” by Barbara Ehrenreich, to learn something about this group of people.

          Get real. The idea that people are choosing to be poor is unadulterated bullshit.

          • laurie66bay

            If someone does a medical bankruptcy, they no longer owe anything. That’s what bankruptcy is. And that means they are no longer poor. Lol

          • Jewel

            People can’t declare bankruptcy until they no longer have the money and assets to pay their bills – in other words, until they are poor. Filing for bankruptcy does not allow them to get that money/assets back. They’re still poor.

          • laurie66bay

            No, if they no longer owe anything, they are not poor and can go and earn money without that debt, and bankrupcy does not wipe out all their assets. Look it up.

          • colleen2

            You know, one of the problems with marrying Republicans is that if we did so we would have to listen to bullshit like that ALL DAY LONG.

          • Jennifer Starr

            And then they wonder why no sane woman wants to date or marry them…

          • colleen2

            well, ‘laurie’ certainly seems to think that cheap, intrinsically dishonest, abusive, womanizing bullies are great.

          • HeilMary1

            Staying home alone is far less aggravating. My cats don’t call me ugly, lazy and stupid.

          • laurie66bay

            Yes, you don’t like listening to anyone, do you. That explains a lot about your condition. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make them drink. Very true.

          • colleen2

            I don’t listen to trashy Republicans. Please fuck off.

          • CJ99

            gawd imagine if that buffoon married someone? or had kids? can’t imagine that happening without kidnapping involved. But seriously the abuse that family would suffer at the pigs hands.

          • Defamate

            Then bankruptcy is a great and wonderful thing is what you are arguing? Perhaps we should all lose our stuff and declare bankruptcy if its so awesome?

          • laurie66bay

            Bankruptcy clears debts that can not be paid and lets someone start over again. the OP was arguing that medical bankruptcy makes people poor. It doesnt. It clears poverty and lets them start over. If they stay poor after that, its because they either made bad choices in life, or are lazy. Its not because of the medical bills they no longer owe.

          • Defamate

            Really? Yeah, I guess if losing your life savings AND your house is a boon then I guess more people should do it?

            I know a woman who recently declared bankruptcy. She has no money to her name, and has to live off of friends and family. Her boyfriend had to buy her a car so she could drive to work. Yeah…bankruptcy magically clears up poverty doesn’t it?

          • laurie66bay

            Its possible to keep a car if you go through bankruptcy. You obviously know nothing of what you speak.

          • Defamate

            So? misdirection

            Clearly, she is NOT better off, and is still poor.

          • HeilMary1

            Maybe they remain too disabled to work or get hired anywhere. My dead best friend was too disabled and disfigured to work after her last daughter. Her new husband bullied her to breed for his parents, never mind that her oncologists warned her another pregnancy would weaponize her in-remission facial skin cancer. He started beating her for “looking fat” during the 5th month of pregnancy, never mind that he bullied her into the pregnancy. He soon absconded with their new daughter, and my friend’s cancer returned and devoured her nose, eye, ear, lips, palates, brain and finally life. By your definition, my friend was “lazy” because her body couldn’t beat off cancer caused by pregnancy.

          • laurie66bay

            Just because you’ve known some insane asshats, doesnt mean you should build a worldview around that. You really need some counselling….in all seriousness. Not trying to mess with you.

          • CJ99

            The insane asshat we know is you! You are truly a disgusting piece of trash. do the world a favour & don’t have kids. Subjecting young ones to your crap is revolting.

          • laurie66bay

            too late. lol.

          • fiona64

            Well, I’m sorry for them, then. Do the world a favor, and DON’T homeschool.

          • CJ99

            Seriously, I already knew your dumb as rocks. thats what makes it so funny. your so ignorant you’re still blissfully unaware you just burned yourself to the 3rd degree. Not that anywone is fooled by you. No woman no matter how masochistic would get stuck with you.

          • HeilMary1

            Bankruptcy doesn’t cure disability, off-shored jobs and un-affordable housing.

          • HeilMary1

            They will still be DISABLED AND UNEMPLOYED, Frau Hitler.

          • laurie66bay

            What will their name be? You’ve invented the rest of the details about them. Lets have a name. lol

          • CJ99

            No you don’t get to harass people at their homes, not even for a coward like you.

          • colleen2

            I’m pretty sure that ‘laurie’ does not know who Horatio Alger is.

          • CJ99

            He’ll no doubt mistake Horatio for a certain hornblower.

        • colleen2

          People in America are largely poor because they make poor choices and
          poverty is the situation they find themselves in as a result of their
          poor choices.

          You sound like Sarah Palin.. Your ignorance of the world and of women’s lives is immense and without understanding or compassion. You disgust me.

          • laurie66bay

            Yes, lol. Anyone who doesn’t parrot the things you believe is ignorant of women’s issues. Apparently you can only be a woman if you have children without marrying the father and then live in poverty while blaming everyone else for your condition.

          • HeilMary1

            Village harpy/idiot you never heard of our decades of foreign wars that have killed off millions of husbands.

          • laurie66bay

            You mean like Obama’s drones attacking wedding parties in Afghanistan?

          • goatini

            Cue “Benghazi” in 3… 2… 1…

          • colleen2

            says a guy who voted for the moron who invaded and occupied the wrong country.

          • HeilMary1

            And who introduced the drones BEFORE Obama.

          • CJ99

            Apparantly it was him who gave dubya the directions: ummm head for turkey n turn left, errrr Right DURRRP!

          • HeilMary1

            No, I mean the millions of AMERICAN men lost in WWI, II, Korea, Vietnam, the Middle East, etc. That’s not even counting the 20 million husbands killed off in the USSR in WWII alone. Why do you think so many lonely Russian brides are so hot to trot across borders? It’s not just for money, but because there are no back-home honeys.

            Demographics for Dummies: wars create explosions in single mother families.

          • laurie66bay

            If there are lonely Russian brides “hot to trotting” (sic) across borders who lost their husbands in World War 2, then they would be getting a big long in the tooth now aren’t they? They must be trotting with a bit of a limp. They must be heading straight to old folks homes looking for husbands. lol

          • HeilMary1

            The foreign husband search started from WWII, and was copied by daughters, and granddaughters, etc. Use your noodle.

          • CJ99

            who do you blame for your condition?

            No really do tell who you blame for your own deliberate stupidity.

          • laurie66bay

            I can’t really answer that because I don’t accept your premise.

          • CJ99

            Translation: you’re lying, you know it & everyone else knows it. Just remember while you so pridefully keep your head in the sand where your butt is hanging.

          • fiona64

            You really need to try to be more histrionic in your channeling of Phyllis Schlafly.

          • CJ99

            though captain kangaroo is a distinct possibility.

          • fiona64

            Somehow I doubt that Bob Keeshan was that ignorant …

        • Defamate

          Is that why socialist countries such as Sweden, Norway, Denmark, netherlands and Canada all have much lower rates of poverty than the free market paradise that is the USA?

          • laurie66bay

            I could explain to you that poverty statistics can be cooked. I could also explain that different countries could legitimately measure poverty in different ways. For example, the US does not measure the value of all the free services poor people get when calculating their income. Its also true that you can raise the average “income” in society by taking away most of what working people earn and giving it to nonworking people, thereby moving the half of society that works closer to the poverty line. But you don’t care about any of that. You just want to believe the fiction that everyone lives much better lives in other countries…lol. They don’t. Take it from someone who has been in other countries and has met people struggling to try to get ahead and who has nowhere near the opportunities people have in the US. You just don’t get it because you don’t want to.

          • Defamate

            Yeah? I would say that people have pretty damn good opportunities in northern europe and in Canada…

            ps – I am from Canada. And oh, let me see, we don’t have NEAR the inequality that the USA does.

          • laurie66bay

            Tell that to the Indians living on reservations in Labrador. Though I will agree with you on one thing…Canada right now has a far better government than the US does, and is more committed to growth opportunities. Unemployment in Canada which used to be higher than the US, is now lower than the US thanks to the Harper Government and no thanks to the Obama government. Canada is now more hospitable to starting a business than the US is. Canada has sane government these days.

          • Defamate

            Tell that to the Indians living on reservations in Labrador.

            Racism and a conservative government that is trying to increase inequality.

          • laurie66bay

            Ah, so the problems at Davis Inlet and other poor communities only started when the latest Tory government got sworn in? lol Is that what you are saying?

            How did you precious “inequality” ratio due under the previous liberal governments? (hint, it increased). And before you try telling me it didnt, tell it to someone who hasn’t met Jean Chretien. lol

            This rising “inequality” is a sob story leftists trot out whenever there is a conservative government in power, and put away and ignore when a leftist government is in power. You don’t even know what inequality means.

          • Defamate

            The Indian Act is racist and has given governments the opportunity to mistreat Canada’s Indians.

            However, the treatment of native peoples is not exactly proof that all of Canada is a den of inequality.

          • laurie66bay

            The Indian Act was passed by a “Liberal” Government. Its pretty sad when I know your history better than you do.

          • laurie66bay

            What, no come back to that one huh? lol

          • Defamate

            You’re boring.

            I can’t delete notifications from this thread fast enough.

          • laurie66bay

            No, lets talk about Canada some more. Lets talk poutine, donairs and Keiths. I do like gravy on fries, but the cheese curds just don’t do it for me.

          • CJ99

            The only thing you know of canada is what I’m about to tell you:

            Mangez la grosse banane

            Even with babelfish you’ll never get it.

          • laurie66bay

            Do you have a banana? I thought you were a woman?

          • CJ99

            Even if I was you’d still be in for a shock and have you outmatched in every way. But then your not even fully a man, just a pathetic fool who can’t even drag others down to look big.

          • laurie66bay

            calice, you got nothing better than that? lol

          • HeilMary1

            Kevin Annett’s research on Canadian government and missionary theft of Indian assets proves you wrong.

          • laurie66bay

            About what? Donairs?

          • HeilMary1

            Ever hear of Duplessis’ orphans?

          • Defamate

            So?

            What are we supposed to conclude? That all liberalism is evil because of that?

            Oh jee, you’ve got me with that slam-dunk!

          • laurie66bay

            You said it was conservatives who are responsible for trying to increase inequality. Then you gave the Indian act as an example of racism and inequality in Canada. And then I point out that it was a liberal government that passed it…

            One could conclude that you just don’t like conservatives and blame everything on them, and don’t know what you are talking about.

          • Defamate

            Yeah so? Doesn’t mean that it is representative of the entire country.

            Keep grasping at straws though..I will sit back and laugh

          • CJ99

            You haven’t met Jean Chretien. Like everything else you said, thats pure fantasy.

          • laurie66bay

            Lol. Who are you to say I’ve never met Jean Chretien. The little guy from Shawinigan. He gave he a signed copy of his book. lololol.

          • CJ99

            that was all over the news for a very long time, even a foxtard like you could find out about it. what you don’t know is your lies don’t prove each other. nor do they make you any less of a sadsack.

          • HeilMary1

            The Indians wouldn’t be poor if Catholic and Protestant “missionaries” hadn’t raped, beaten, poisoned, trafficked and looted all their assets.

          • laurie66bay

            Who do you hate more? Protestants or Catholics? How about the muslims who went across africa and did the same thing. Do you hate them too, or is that sort of an enemy of my enemy understanding you have with them. lol

          • CJ99

            Who do you hate more? people who think for themselves or women in general?

            btw, whichever lie you tell next the answer is already known.

          • HeilMary1

            You excuse any abuses committed by Protestants and Catholics, and blame their looting and genocide on the new Jews: Muslims.

          • fiona64


            This rising “inequality” is a sob story leftists trot out whenever there
            is a conservative government in power, and put away and ignore when a
            leftist government is in power.

            I see I’m going to have to recommend another visit to crackagoddamnbook dot com. You see, there are longitudinal studies on this matter, and it is NOT a “sob story.” Start here, “economics major” … and don’t come back until you’ve read the book for comprehension: http://www.amazon.com/The-Spirit-Level-Equality-Societies/dp/1608193411

          • colleen2

            For people like ‘laurie’ inequality is a good thing and part of what makes America great.

          • CJ99

            If Canada lets you in I have no doubt you’d be the only person voting Rob Ford for PM.

          • laurie66bay

            The funniest thing about Rob Ford, is that Olivia Chow is so bad, there are still people who would vote to keep Ford in office.

          • CJ99

            yes the fact that you’re one of them is already known as is the fact your hatred of Olivia chow is entirely based on her gender.

          • HeilMary1

            RCC/GOP forced overpopulation is the cause of most poverty because forced birth adults now greatly exceed available jobs.

          • laurie66bay

            Birthrate is dropping dear. Check your facts. Unfortunately, number of jobs available per capita under Obama is dropping faster. Oooh, that inequality thing again….

          • CJ99

            She has facts, you do not. end of story. Dont let the door smack your lazy ass on the way out. though nobody would complain if it did.

          • HeilMary1

            Birth rates are skyrocketing in Latin America and Asia where American jobs have been shipped off to. For awhile, overpopulated Mexicans had Americans’ missing jobs, but overpopulated Chinese are even cheaper than Mexicans. You see how that forced overpopulation=slave labor ponzi scheme works?

          • colleen2

            Oh, I see, so Sweden and the more civilized European countries are cooking their statistics. Their higher standard of living and superior healthcare outcomes are the result of lies and an illusion due to our ignorance and lack of a fictional degree in economics.
            Damn, the women who vote for Republicans are stupid. It’s breathtaking how stupid they are.

          • laurie66bay

            You only display your ethnocentrism and oikophobia when you declare Sweden to be more civilized.

          • colleen2

            You know, for most people, having your head up your ass that far would be uncomfortable. You appear to have become accustomed to that position after decades of practice.

          • CJ99

            Indeed their willfull ignorance is truly astounding. I know I shouldn’t be surprised but the buffoons always find a way. Whats really stunning is how willingly they do it to themselves with such pride.

          • CJ99

            Everyone can smell what your cooking, its not steak!

          • HeilMary1

            Koch billionaire mistress, keep on lying for the looting billionaires.

          • laurie66bay

            bwahahaha. Ah, the dreaded Koch brothers made their appearance.

          • goatini

            Says the “libertarian” drone who couldn’t wait to trot out George Soros’ name.

          • HeilMary1

            LOL!

      • HulaHoops

        It’s not oversimplifed, your definition is just needlessly complex. Show me someone who has a lot of money who is also hungry, thirsty, homeless, has serious fears about violence, has no credit, or is insecure and powerless in a fragile or marginal environment. Show me a single person. If you lack these things, then whatever is in your wallet isnt really money, or at least isn’t real wealth. Money gives you choices in life. Its pretty simple.

        And if you dont have a child outside of wedlock and you do get married, it is highly unlikely you will be in that impoverished situation.

        • Lynnsey

          That definition, I’ll point out again, is not mine. It’s that of the United Nations and it’s important that we talk about poverty in terms of what it means practically. It’s not as simple as not having money, which is a very limited and superficial definition. That was the point that you seem to have missed.

          Also, I’d like to live in your pretty little world where no one who is married is impoverished. That must be nice. It’s in contrast to the reality of quite a few people I’ve personally met throughout the years, but it is fun to imagine.

          • HulaHoops

            I’m not missing the point. I’m saying the point is flat out wrong. It *is* as simple as not having money. If the UN wants to make up complicated lists, well I guess those people need jobs too. And sure it’s valuable to list all the important things money can buy. None of this changes the fact most (no one said all) people in America don’t have money (and ergo have the problems on the UN’s big list) because they made bad choices.

            The pretty little world you describe does sound nice. I wish I lived there. It would be better than the real world where progressives attack strawmen and think a lifetime of anecdoes somehow trumps real data. If you get people to make so called “conservative” choices with their lives, you’d see a lot more prosperity, but that would be so unfair to the people who want to make those other choices.

          • HeilMary1

            You looting liars are the reason millions of single parent families are overtaking “traditional” families. You won’t answer where us leftover single women are supposed to find husbands when you made your millions kicking our men into foreign war graves!

        • HeilMary1

          Funny how poor most married women are around the globe, especially if they and/or their husbands are UNEMPLOYED because of job off-shoring and automation.

      • VenturaCapitalist

        Have you considered reading the article?
        “Why are people poor? Because they don’t have enough money.”
        See? It’s right there in black and white.

        • Lynnsey

          I read the article. Poverty is also not just as simple as “being poor.” The definition of poverty, which is what the commenter I was responding to was arguing about (maybe you should try reading *that* comment before you try and join the conversation), is not just not having money.

          • CJ99

            the troll is you. You’re arguments smell of what your dog left on the neighbours lawn. No amount of polishing will make it a rose.

          • Lynnsey

            I really hope you replied to the wrong person. Otherwise, I’m terribly confused.

          • CJ99

            you stated: “Poverty is not just as simple as “being poor.” which directly supports the trolls nutty assertions. How can you not see it?

          • Lynnsey

            Because it’s NOT just “being poor”. It’s a lot more complicated than that. The definition of poverty (again, as the post at the top of this thread argues…you should read my response to that as well as another that’s somewhere in this mess to that awful laurie66 person if it hasn’t disappeared as their comments get deleted) is not just “not having money” and talking about poverty like that’s all that is involved is deeply problematic and does a great disservice to those who are actually impoverished.

          • http://web.elastic.org/~fche/ Frank Ch. Eigler

            I’m warming up some popcorn for this one.

          • CJ99

            Don’t leave your tinfoil hat in the microwave frank. Just because I took up lynnsey on that one point doesn’t absolve you of anything.

          • Defamate

            yeah dude, Lynnsey is A OK

    • fiona64

      I agree though that straight women aren’t finding Mr Right. That tends
      to happen when they are conditioned to set the bar so high.

      Yes, Heaven forfend that any single woman have standards about how she is treated … or not wanting to date an ignoramus. Yes, that’s dreadful. No one should have standards; that is clearly the answer. /snark

      • visionary_23

        Yes, Heaven forbid that she marry a man who doesn’t meet her amorphous “standards”. But she should copulate and have babies with said men. That’s all good.

        • goatini

          But since that isn’t what Fiona said, you’re just pulling the same vicious misogynist BS as your buddy “minowe” just tried to pull on me.

          • visionary_23

            Wow “vicious misogynist BS”? Intriguing. You and Ms. Starr above you should write a book on hackneyed feminist shaming tactics. Perhaps you can also find a time machine to the mid-1990’s and live in it.

          • colleen2

            You feel ashamed for what you’ve been doing here? progress!

          • visionary_23

            One can use a shaming tactic without it working. It’s sort of like the way we shame feminists like you for not using logic, evidence, or data to back up your bigoted claims. Never works.

          • goatini

            MRAs believe that all females should exist in a permanent state of guilt and shame. It insures obedience in those who fall for this BS.

          • visionary_23

            Or that no one should be a bigot with government support. Hence the opposition to feminism.

          • goatini

            Right, like US Federal and State laws never encoded institutionalized misogyny for over a century. Grow up.

          • Jennifer Starr

            No, it’s more like a constant whining about the women who have supposedly ‘done you wrong’, or whingeing about the mean old women who won’t date you when you have bad hygiene and abysmal social skills.

          • visionary_23

            Considering you know nothing about me, it’s weird you could even make that argument.

            Try sticking to provable facts instead of bigoted feminist sound bites.

          • HeilMary1

            Try not relying on misogynist sound bites.

          • fiona64

            Looks like Jennifer hit a nerve, if you ask me …

            Pro-tip: dowsing yourself with Axe instead of using some soap and water? Is not attractive, no matter what the ads tell oyu.

          • CJ99

            Soap & water are both tools of satan. The voices in his head told him so when his tinfoil hat sprung a leak.

          • CJ99

            Since its you who has no facts its you who should talking out your own butt from now on.

          • HeilMary1

            Your social Darwinism didn’t work well in Nazi Germany.

          • HeilMary1

            Facts and logic never work on fascist idiots like you.

          • fiona64

            Oh, look … it’s another little MRA boy.

            Does your mum know you’re on the computer instead of doing your lessons?

          • CJ99

            If you refer to homeschooling that would be one & the same thing. I’ve seen what passes for homeschooling material, it’s mindblowingly bad.

        • Jennifer Starr

          You know after a while, you MRA types just sound plain whiny. That’s probably why no woman comes near you.

          • visionary_23

            Or that what I’ve said pretty much is spot on. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a feminist website criticizing the choice a woman makes on the basis of her sexual partners or with whom she’s had children. But marriage? Standards, baby, standards.

            The hypocrisy would be amusing if it weren’t so tragic and obtuse.

          • CJ99

            You’re bs would be amusing if we didn’t have to smell it. Just so you know, I’m a guy and I still know your shit-headed rants don’t smell like roses.

        • CJ99

          Actually no, anybody who is a revolting conformist slob would not be attractive to have kids with either. Thats the whole point, nobody wants to be victimized by the revolting group you’re a part of.

          • visionary_23

            Keep going with the ad hominem attack ritual. It only works in a bigoted feminist echo chamber like the one we’re on.

            As for “conformist slob”, that pretty much fits the bill of any feminist in Western society, so kudos for being unintentionally self-unaware.

          • goatini

            I’ll be looking for your field report on The Spearhead.

          • CJ99

            not askin what spearhead is. don’t wanna know ;P

          • goatini

            (MRA Plen-T-Plaint blog)

            I am a fan of Thomas Frank’s writing, and he coined the phrase “Plen-T-Plant” to describe the regressive whinging indulged in by some on this article’s message board.

            “Everything seems to piss conservatives off. And they react by
            documenting and cataloging their disgust. The result is what we will call the plen-T-plaint, a curious amassing of petty, unrelated
            beefs with the world. Its purpose is not really to evaluate the hated liberal culture that surrounds us; the plen-T-plaint is a horizontal rather than vertical mode of criticism, aiming instead to infuriate us with dozens, hundreds, thousands of stories of the many tiny ways the world around us assaults family values, uses obscenities, disrespects parents[...] It offers no resolution, simply reminding us that we can never win. The plen-T-plaint is the rhetorical device that makes Bill O’Reilly’s TV show a hit”

          • CJ99

            EEEWWW

            so more crap some gamer doofus wrote when his XBL got suspended for screaming homophobic rants over his mic.

          • CJ99

            Let me spell it out for you. You are the one who showed up here and decided to be a jackass, yet you feign shock for being treated as such. You’re knowingly spouting crap and you got called out on it. that’s why you have zero support btw.

            Heres a few other truisms for you. I am educated, I’m capable of thinking for myself and frequently do so. I also practice personal hygiene and am capable of functioning in normal society, I even have friends. you cannot say the same. Btw, I haven’t had the most active love life, but the differences I don’t bitch about it blaming women. I know my circumstances & live with it. Don’t like it? too freakin bad.

          • HeilMary1

            Too bad you don’t live near DC! You’d be a great happy hour date!

          • CJ99

            Seriously?

            EEEEEEEWWWWWWW

            Now see what you’ve done? I need another shower ;P

          • HeilMary1

            You may have taken it the wrong way! Sorry!

          • CJ99

            wasn’t fun of you Mary but instead what you brought up. I forgot my html tags for sarcasm since its been a while since I did any of that.

          • HeilMary1

            No problem!

          • CJ99

            It’s just the idea of a repug getting a hard on for my bod is only slightly less attractive than having cooties.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Are you one of those guys who’s looking for a mail order bride because that’s the only way you’ll get one?

          • HeilMary1

            His type already has rejected my type for being too old, too poor, and not naturally gorgeous.

          • CJ99

            You make being rejected by a crazy as hell creeper sound like a baaaad thing. Note: not making light of what you’ve been through.

          • CJ99

            I think his “type” would come with a bicycle pump & puncture repair kit. that seems to be a common theme.

        • fiona64

          Well, you and yours seem to want to make sure that women no longer have access to contraception or abortion services … so I guess you’re just saying what all of you say in the end: “if you don’t want to be pregnant, don’t have sex.”

          Just one more choice you don’t get to make. You know what? Sometimes a roll in the hay is a good thing … and a roll in the hay is not an engagement ring. Get used to it.

          And that’s all aside from the fact that I never said any such thing. Straw man much?

      • CJ99

        Fiona you stole my comment! give it back!

        Kidding on that part but yeah. I’ve been on the butt end of a few attempted setups by my loony religious relatives (only diff being I’m a guy). Every one of them was truly cringeworthy in extremis. I’d rather be molested by bigfoot (eeewwww) than be saddled in some repug dog & pony show.

      • http://littlemisshaldol.tumblr.com/ LittleMissMellaril

        Wrong, woman should have no standards, we should go with anyone! However, for men, women must be perfect! ;) *Sarcasm*

    • goatini

      “That tends to happen when they are conditioned to set the bar so high.”

      Ah, yes, someone from the Suzanne Venker/Phyllis Schlafly school of self-loathing misogynist bushwa, telling us that we just need to settle for the next schmendrick with male parts and a pulse that comes along.

      If these self-loathing misogynist sob sisters were to say what they really think, they’d be advocating for forced arranged marriages for women.

      • minowe

        So you’re saying there are lots of men who are good enough to date and have babies by, but none who are good enough to marry? That’s okay, sweetie; the rest of us will pay for those bad men’s babies you’ve birthed. But you may still not be really wealthy. Because bad choices sometimes bring poverty.

        • colleen2

          “So you’re saying there are lots of men who are good enough to date and have babies by, but none who are good enough to marry?”

          Do not trouble yopurself. I’m fairly certain that the women here do not date Republicans. They are too disgusting.

          • minowe

            And I’m fairly certain that all Republicans thank the women here for NOT dating them. (Not that the women here would ever have that opportunity.)

          • colleen2

            well then why are you posting here with your puerile and denigrating ‘advice’ about our marriage and dating choices? All we hope is that you keep your pants zipped and recognize that men are at least 50% responsible for each and every unwanted pregnancy. We hope that guys like you avoid marriage entirely because you’re abusive assholes and terrible husbands and fathers.
            Why not accept that you and your friends are the problem. Nobody wants to live with guys like you. Nobody.

          • minowe

            Geez, Colleen, I really do hate to ruin your comfortable fantasy but I am a woman. Since I have never had an unwanted pregnancy, I’m really NOT responsible–at all–for any of the problems created by out-of-wedlock births. Worst of all, I suppose, I am married.

            Unless a woman was impregnated by rape, she really was in control of all baby-making decisions. If she made poor choices, it’s really not my fault. Yet I am expected to deal with the consequences, including the fact that single mothers tend to be poor. If she was hoping for more income equality, she really should have waited until she was married to a man who would help her raise her child(ren).

          • CJ99

            Impersonating the tooth fairy doesn’t make you a woman, it makes you an idiot. but that was already abundantly clear. DUH.

          • HeilMary1

            But your opposition to affordable contraception is exactly what causes low-income women to have children they would delayed for years.

          • HeilMary1

            You’d be surprised! ConservaTURD cads hit on everyone here in DC when they’re drunk, pissed or feeling entitled.

          • CJ99

            that’s pretty much all the time. its no diff where I live either.

          • minowe

            It’s rather insulting to “the women here” to say that they are too disgusting to date Republicans. But I’ll take your word for it. If anyone knows “the women here,” it’s you.

          • goatini

            Oh, ha ha, aren’t you the clever one, not.

          • colleen2

            Please find another blog.

          • minowe

            Okay. I win. Buh bye.

          • CJ99

            I think the 2 comments of yours immediately above should remain here. They will serve to inform the world of how much of an egotistical sadsack you really are.

        • goatini

          Well, NO, that is not at all what I said, but it’s the vicious misogynists’ stock in trade to completely misconstrue statements to attempt to twist them to meet their woman-hating agenda. How you derived your BS from my comment is incomprehensible, except to other vicious misogynists like yourself.

          • minowe

            Well no one said that you must settle, either, but that was your interpretation.

            As long as those schmendricks with male parts and a pulse aren’t impregnating you, there’s no problem at all. Hold out for the perfect male, or even the “well, good enough” male, that’s fine. As a side benefit, you probably won’t live in poverty, especially if you’ve finished high school.

            No one advocated “forced arranged marriages for women,” either. Whose words did you twist to come up with THAT proposal??? That’s worse than incomprehensible!

          • CJ99

            His “interpretation” is the real world, yours is fantasy. Btw you are not perfect, your pretty far from “good enough”, that and your bullshit being recognized as such is why your so full of hate.

          • HeilMary1

            My being disfigured by my anti-contraception Catholic parents has kept me close to homelessness. They opposed me paying for plastic surgery myself from my intermittent freelance jobs because they wanted me to remain an impoverished spinster, even if it killed me. Finding and keeping jobs is very difficult when you’re disfigured and Clarence Thomas famously opposes equal pay for ugly spinsters. For many years I had zero health insurance, and my parents wouldn’t even give unemployed me $25 for retin-A for my childhood radiation experiments acne so I could avoid scaring job interviewers! Of course I was too ugly to procreate, but my being child-free and having a college degree sure didn’t keep me out of poverty, you callous twit!

          • Defamate

            People like your parents are pro-life, yet they view women and children as property.

            The two go hand in hand.

        • CJ99

          Your insane, who’d want kids with any random wacko who’d lock a woman up at home or worse? No women, no anybody should be shackled to a psychopath just to suit your delusional fantasies.

          • minowe

            CJ99, are you saying that you would not have a baby by any random wacko? Congratulations. You may not end up in poverty.

            And I thank you for not making the rest of us financially care for a passel of random wackos’ babies.

          • CJ99

            No I’m saying I nor anyone else should have a baby as not only are you a random wacko you’re a total douche. Btw since your sill oblivous, the rest of the world can see you don’t take responsibility for your deeds.

          • minowe

            Good gracious, CJ, whether or not I am a random wacko and/or a total douche, you should base your decision on whether or not to have a baby on your own considerations, not my status.

            I have totally taken responsibility for my deeds. I have never depended on government to sustain me, rather I have paid my taxes to sustain others who refuse to take responsibility for their own deeds.

            I’m sorry if you believe it is wrong for anyone to depend upon their own efforts. Or to give to government and charities to sustain those who refuse to take responsibility for their own actions.

            Even worse in your mind, I imagine, is that I don’t believe “income inequality” is a problem that must be solved by Big Government. Those who work harder and smarter SHOULD have more wealth than those who refuse to work or who make bad choices in life.

            But that’s just my belief. I am forced by Big Government to subsidize your beliefs. So be it. For now.

          • HeilMary1

            You support billionaires enslaving and cheating the working poor into early graves. You refuse to admit that unemployed are unemployed because greedy billionaires exported their cherished jobs to cheaper slaves in overpopulated Mexico, the Philippines, India and China. You pretend the eager-to-work laid-off are simply lazy instead of ROBBED.

          • minowe

            And YOU think Obama should confiscate the billionaires’ money and give it to people who prefer to stay home eating bon bons and watching soap operas rather than to get up and go to work every day.

            Just two different viewpoints, I suppose. (And don’t expect Obama to offend any billionaires; he loves cavorting with them and doesn’t care to target them.)

          • Defamate

            People should be paid a living wage. How’s that for an idea? Not everyone can become a member of the 99%. Janitors and fast food workers need to put food on the table too, you know.

            And, because of inequality, consumer spending is in the toilet. Which affects those billionaires who sell consumer products. Already sales are down for vehicles and many other consumer products. CEO’s are worried.

          • minowe

            First you’ll need to define “living wage.” Currently no one in this country cannot put food on their tables and a roof over their heads, other than a few poor souls who are mentally deficient (but cannot be institutionalized because “they have rights!”).
            Then I suppose the federal or state government can just write them a check in that amount. No need to get an education or get a job; just “live.”
            I hope you’re not advocating that “living wage” for everyone in the world. I don’t think even our billionaires can afford to bring that about.
            (And surely you meant not everyone can become a member of the 1%. By definition, everyone NOT in the 1% is in the 99%–which means there will always be a 1% and a 99%, math being immutable.)

          • Defamate

            Currently no one in this country cannot put food on their tables and a
            roof over their heads, other than a few poor souls who are mentally
            deficient (but cannot be institutionalized because “they have rights!”).

            Citation needed.

          • minowe

            I’m afraid I can’t prove a negative. But I’m sure you can prove there are lots of people who can’t get Section Nine housing or food stamps or charity, so do it. Then I’ll apologize.

            Thanks.

          • Defamate

            You have claimed that ‘everyone in this country with the exception of the mentally ill (I guess they don’t count?) can put food on the table and a roof over their heads.

            Prove it.

          • minowe

            Okay, I give up. Virtually no one in this country can afford food OR a roof over his/her head. And anyone who does have food and a roof should definitely adopt one or more mentally ill individuals, all of whom need our help. You start.

            I recently read about a survey that found that our obesity problem is most prominent among “the poor.” You’d really think that without food or housing, they’d be among the slimmest, like those starving people in Ethiopia. Goes to show what I know.

          • Defamate

            Clever!

            Not.

          • CJ99

            Note to you: random mufflebutt claims with no evidence does not make an argument that supports you. If you did take responsibility you wouldn’t be here continuing to make excuses & deflect your inadequecies on everyone else. Those descriptors being applied to you for a reason, you’ve earned them through word & deed. Indeed you still cling to the lie that you support everyone else. You are not the victim you’re part of the problem.

            Oh yeah your status doesn’t determine my or anyone elses actions. You’re really not that important, not even close, no matter how badly you wish it.

      • CJ99

        thats not far off from the truth, most of my evangelical cousins, of which there are many (they refuse contraception) are arranged marraiges. I’ve even had some in my family try setting me up with a 68 year old woman who sits in church at every meeting in the front row no less always wearing the most absurdly expensive clothes while the foodbank donation basket in the back sits empty.

    • CJ99

      The magic is between your ears if you believe that which you spew somehow makes sense to anyone capable of thinking for themselves, Btw you are not part of said group.

    • HeilMary1

      My next door Tea Party neighbor used to be wealthy because she followed your rules. She was a flight attendant for 30 years, even though she married early on a successful but unhealthy business man and had two kids. The lethal non-stop illnesses of her husband and her adult son ruined her financial security, and made her lose their family mansion. That stress and her career also gave her breast cancer, a bad heart and PTSD. But thanks to feminists and liberals, her 30 years with an airlines has given her a pension on top of SS!

    • colleen2

      Republican women are looking for ” high status men”. We are not Republican women.

      • CJ99

        If I were a woman I’d bee looking for somebody with hair on top of their head not their ears & nose. I’d also seek the other following qualities:
        – Sober (yeah rob fords outta luck there)
        – Can walk & talk at the same time
        – Can assemble a coherent sentence (conservatives outta luck)
        – Maintains personal hygiene
        – Thinks for themself
        – Encourages others to do the same
        – Gives as much as expects others to do.

  • Nod .

    Answer to the headline:
    “A Couple Desperate to Be Parents Asks: Will You Help Us Pay for Fertility Treatments?”–headline, Post-Standard (Syracuse, N.Y.), Jan. 21
    Any questions?

  • zoomie63

    So Amanda, with all the genius of a good liberal, has concluded that the reason people are poor is that they have no money. I am confident that she will be nominated for a Nobel Prize for such profound intellectual thinking.

    • HeilMary1

      A more nuanced explanation is that many of them are legal slaves (working 100 hour work weeks for minimum wage and no benefits) and many were also bullied and lied into unwanted, disabling and bankrupting parenthood.

    • CJ99

      congratulations “genius” your starting to put together that poor means having no money while the rest of us look at you saying DUH. too bad your so incapable of intellectual thinking.

      Hint for you: get an education from a real school (no jack van impe homeschooling doesn’t qualify) before running your mouth again.

  • VenturaCapitalist

    Why are people single? They don’t have anyone suitable to be married to.
    Ok, so then you don’t get to have babies. Simple.

    • laurie66bay

      They would argue that its their right to have babies whether they are married or not. Sadly it is, but who is concerned about the rights of babies? But if you are going to have babies and refuse to get married, why are you complaining that other people aren’t helping to pay for them, and you are now “poor”.

      • HeilMary1

        There wouldn’t be an epidemic of poor teen mothers if you anti-sex edders would quit pushing failed abstinence-only BS.

        • laurie66bay

          Most mothers wouldn’t be poor if they avoided having sex before they were ready (emotionally and financially) to raise children, and didn’t have sex with losers who weren’t committed to them. Its pretty simple actually.

          • Defamate

            Yes. And easy.

            Which is why red states have the highest numbers of teen pregnancies, out of wedlock births, and teen moms living on welfare.

            Abstinence only ftw!

          • laurie66bay

            lol. You have no reply to that. Just a “hey, look over there” gambit.

            But I will do you the favor of answering you. I think its clear that the teen moms living on welfare in “red” states, did not avoid having sex before they were ready to raise children and didn’t avoid having sex with losers who weren’t committed to them. And if they had, their lives would be much better off.

            Its also worth noting that even in a “red” state, approx 40% of the population are democrats and democrats get their voters from somewhere (teen moms who have impulse control problems and get themselves pregnant and poor before they are out of high school)

          • Defamate

            Many of the pregnant teens in the red states happen to be in the bible belt…and to be the daughters of pro-life parents.

          • laurie66bay

            Well, there are obviously more children of pro life parents than there are of parents who believe in abortion, just because more of them survived. But other than that statistical fact, I think you are letting your prejudices color your beliefs again.

          • CJ99

            Proof?

            Yeah thats rhetorical, said “proof” won’t be forthcoming.

          • Defamate

            More misdirection…

          • laurie66bay

            Come on, we were supposed to talk poutine and Keiths. Oh, and Donairs.

          • CJ99

            If you want cultural innuendo go back to your springer reruns. You could go for the full effect watching them in the trailer park.

          • fiona64

            So, you are dumb enough to believe that pro-choice people have no children?

            My 27-year-old son will be surprised to learn that he doesn’t exist.

            You’re laughable.

          • CJ99

            Now you’ve done it Fiona, see that smoke pouring out lauries ears ;P

          • HeilMary1

            Pro-liars beat and murder their kids after birth.

          • HeilMary1

            And what about GOP men who have sex with everyone but their current wives? Gingrich, Randall Terry and countless other wife dumpers refused to support the kids of their abandoned faithful wives. You’re OK with rich deadbeat daddy GOPers.

          • laurie66bay

            Wow, two guys. That certainly proves the rule. You must have a statistics degree. lol

          • CJ99

            PizzaBanana

          • HeilMary1

            Deal Hudson, Henry Hyde, John McCain, Roy Blunt, and all of Clinton’s impeachers to name a few.

          • CJ99

            Nope again you’ve been proven quite the douche. Yeah we can all see your still lying out your hairy neandrethal butt.

          • fiona64

            40% of the population are democrats and democrats get their voters from
            somewhere (teen moms who have impulse control problems and get
            themselves pregnant and poor before they are out of high school)

            Citation needed.

            Oh, and just a quick lesson in biology: no one “gets themselves pregnant.” It takes two.

          • CJ99

            I think he refers to the immaculate deception of the vurrrjun burth.

          • colleen2

            Not for Republicans. Republicans like to pretend that girls get pregnant via parthenogenesis. Just ignore the adult males preying on them and the high rape rates in HS. Ignore the fact the abstinence only sex miseducation and the religious right teaches boys that they don’t have to be responsible or even kind. Ignore the date rape drugs while you’re at it and the attempts to limit access to effective contraception.. Teenage girls get pregnant on their own. It’s a favorite Republican male sexual fantasy so it must be true.

          • CJ99

            I’d like to see the repugs explain away the existance of men in the presence of their almighty parthenogenesis. My monies on fairy farts & pixie dust.

          • HeilMary1

            Gee, most losers don’t show their hatred of kids and childbirth disfigurements until after their WIVES have kids! I know a zillion wives and kids abandoned after the wives carefully obeyed all your rules. Ask the first wives of all GOP goons.

          • laurie66bay

            A zillion, thats a lot. Are you sure your numbers are accurate?

          • HeilMary1

            Better than yours, Nazi party doll.

          • goatini

            66 is a male. Doesn’t mean he can’t be a “party doll”, though.

          • CJ99

            Yeah he’s a mimbo.

          • CJ99

            women wouldnt be having kids they cant support if religious douchenozzles such as you weren’t denying them contraception. Freaking moron.

          • laurie66bay

            Who’s denying anyone contraception. Hey, there’s a Walgreens. Go get all the contraception you want. lol Back up the truck…lol

          • CJ99

            as usual your being a dumbass with another non-argument. yes I know how that word shocks you. that’s the point.

          • HeilMary1

            The RCC-GOP are trying to outlaw contraception everywhere except at billionaire resorts.

      • CJ99

        Sure as hell isn’t you who care about babies. If you did you’d be helping instead of berating women for not falling in line with your cave dwelling rhetoric.

        • laurie66bay

          I’ll have you know, I am helping at a women and children’s shelter while I do this on my phone.

          • fiona64

            Of course you are. ::pats head::

          • CJ99

            In other news the nobel comit
            ee today announced Pat Robertson has recieved the science prize for stating the sky is pink cause there’s no SUV’s on jupiter.

          • colleen2

            bullshit

    • Rocky

      Yeah, simple. Oh wait, that’s not up to anyone else and is a personal choice. Complex again. I know, I know, it’s so hard to deal with complexities.

      • visionary_23

        Fair enough. But don’t whine about not having “suitable partners for marriage” when many of those partners were suitable enough to copulate with and have babies with. It’s totally nonsensical logic.

        • goatini

          Mmmm, because males never seek to copulate outside of marriage. Right.

          • visionary_23

            Uh, the only form of debtor’s prison in western society is for throwing men in jail who don’t meet financial obligations for children (many of said men are poor to begin with). In addition, virtually every mainstream media article not named fox news castigating parents having children out of wedlock focuses on males. Women, by virtue of doing the same, get government assistance and people like you to defend them.

            So yea, we focus on male sexual choice all the time, and write punitive action into law against them. Apologies if some of us also wonder if we should focus on women with equal vigor. You know, gender equality and all.

          • goatini

            I see the Disciples of Daniel Amneus are here.

          • visionary_23

            My apologies. I used evidence and data. Not really up your alley, is it? It appears feminists have become a caricature of logic-less bigots. Only with government support.

          • goatini

            The Acolytes of Amneus are far too regressionist to actually dialogue with. Can’t have a dialogue with someone who supports mandatory paternal custody. Can’t have a dialogue with someone who supports mandatory male ownership of female sexuality.

          • visionary_23

            Considering I’m for default equal custody, you’re veering off into a semi-insane territory where you’re rebutting the claims of someone else. Though admittedly, being a feminist doesn’t exactly steer one far from the realm of logical insanity.

          • goatini

            Hmmm, so you think Amneus is “semi-insane”? I think he’s full-bore insane.

          • visionary_23

            I think you’re “semi-insane” for rebutting the claims of someone else in a conversation with me.

          • goatini

            Simply verifying your allegiance to the father of the MRA “movement”.

          • CJ99

            I know you’re a lunatic, goatini knows it as does pretty much everyone who’s read your drivel here. It’s been said before but could eat alphabits & barf a better story than the stuff you’ve been dropping.

          • CJ99

            Nope again you blathered a steaming pile on the floor and claimed it as “proof” but your lack of support & deleted commentary are telling otherwise, that being your full of it.

          • colleen2

            Your bullshit opinions are not “data and evidence”

          • CJ99

            Yep, fox news as the “only reliable news source”. Guess what jackass, do you even know why fox was boouted out of canada before they were finished setting up shop? it wasn’t the foreign ownership of media rules. It was the CRTC knowing that fox is not a news organization, never has been.

            And just so you know, everything else you said is proven bullshit before you barfed it out on your keyboard.

          • visionary_23

            Yo chief, nobody said they watched fox news. My point was that virtually every non-fox news media outlet castigates MEN for out of wedlock child birth, but not women (they receive government assistance and are treated as though they have no agency).

            Try logic and evidence before you “barf” out your vulgar garbage as though it were fact.

          • CJ99

            Actually YOU did!

            I already know you’re an ignoramus but wow, you can’t even keep your lies straight for an hour.

          • visionary_23

            Actually, uh, no I didn’t. You merely turned into a frothing imbecile the moment you saw the words “fox news” in a sentence.

          • CJ99

            Dear Mr. shit for brains, have somebody read your previous comment back to you. too bad so sad (for you).

            End of story.

          • colleen2

            My point was that virtually every non-fox news media outlet castigates MEN for out of wedlock child birth,

            1. again. This is bullshit. 2. The reality is that a male is AT LEAST 50% responsible for every unwanted pregnancy. I know this is difficult for you but it’s difficult because you refuse to GROW THE FUCK UP, If you and your fellow conservative males would stop using women as masturbatory devices most of the bad sex and unwanted pregnancies in the country would disappear overnight. You have the power!

          • Defamate
          • visionary_23

            Please re-read your source, then get back to me. They don’t keep people in prison for the crime you alluded to — they do it for contempt of court. They DO, however for men for the direct crime of not paying child support.

            http : // www. nolo. com /l egal-encyclopedia/jail- time-unpaid-child-support. html

          • Defamate

            They keep them in prison because there’s money in it.

          • visionary_23

            And because we’re ok with incarcerating men for this particular “crime”.

          • HeilMary1

            You want to imprison women for abortions, miscarriages, morning after pills, being raped, talking to boys — you know, like Ireland’s Magdalene Laundries.

          • colleen2

            I have no problem at all with jailing adults who abuse children. Refusing to support the children you are responsible for is child abuse. Grow up.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Unless you’re in the military, child support enforcement is a joke. I have a friend whose husband left her because he couldn’t handle having a disabled child–she has to chase him from state to state just to get a couple of hundred dollars from him for his son’s medical expenses.

          • HeilMary1

            Why don’t you blame anti-contraception, anti-sex ed bullies instead for the teen mothers?

          • colleen2

            Because they are Republican ‘men’ and thus bullies. Bullies are cowards who always blame the weak and vulnerable for obvious failures. Note how this POS does not suggest that the state should feed his children when he cannot afford to. That would be ‘socialism’. No, the children must be poor and hungry

          • colleen2

            virtually every mainstream media article not named fox news castigating
            parents having children out of wedlock focuses on males

            That is an absurd claim. I WISH it were true. I wish that men who refuse to properly support their children were held accountable because everyone pays for their immaturity and irresponsibility, starting with the children. But the sad fact of the matter is that too many American men are like you, cheap, irresponsible and terrified at the notion of growing the fuck up.

        • CJ99

          Time you stopped hanging out at rob fords “parties”.

          • visionary_23

            Ah, the prototypical feminist knee jerk evidence-less insult. Keep them coming — it proves our point about the bankrupt nature of your ideology.

          • CJ99

            You are the evidence. As is you’re preponderance for not knowing what you said from one minute to the next.

            In the words of the current generation: you got nuthin bro!

    • HeilMary1

      But playboy priests, who consider condoms to be “murder”, father plenty of babies who are then force-aborted, infanticided, abandoned, or sold into adoption. And if single women didn’t have kids, you forced birthers would whine about the U.S.’s plummeting population.

    • CJ99

      Anyone so willfully ignorant as yourself shouldn’t have kids. Subjecting youth to your idiocy is beyond cruel.

  • dwpittelli

    Next article: “Job status doesn’t cause poverty — a lack of money does.”

    Article after that: “Drug addiction doesn’t cause poverty — a lack of money does.”

    • James Messi

      Let me join in!

      “Dropping out of school doesn’t cause poverty — a lack of money does.”

      “Having too many debts doesn’t cause poverty — a lack of money does.”

      “Criminal activity doesn’t cause imprisonment — a lack of money does.”

      • HeilMary1

        Exporting living wage jobs to third world overpopulated slaves causes unemployment poverty in the US. RCC/GOP denial of family planning here and abroad creates poverty here and abroad. Birth control = unemployment control.

    • CJ99

      being single doesn’t cause loneliness & pain – religion does.

      Using sockpuppets doesn’t make one ignorant – religion does!

      • dwpittelli

        I’m an agnostic, but I think any reasonable study of human nature (anthropology, history, psychology) can show that for the vast majority of people there is a fundamental psychological need for religion. I do not claim that every religion is good for people, any more than I would claim that every political ideology is good for people. But I don’t believe you can show me a pre-Marx culture without religion, or a culture (at any time) without religion, that wasn’t highly dysfunctional. As such, what basis have you for claiming broad ills from religion that are worse than those from nonreligion? I would also imagine that everyone who isn’t a shut-in has met multiple people who truthfully say their lives were a mess until they found religion.

        • CJ99

          Anyone who would believe such obvious bullshit would be called a liar meaning you. Btw since you know not of what you speak, the idiotic religious you so blindly defend are more about marxism than you’ll ever admit. Another thing you fail to grasp is religion does not equal the creator. Jesus himself didn’t come here to found a church of any kind. but as everyone else here already knows, religion is not a magic cureall for all thats wrong in the world but it’s too often found as the root cause. that is what truly terrifies you, what you so desparately hide behind to excuse your wholly inadquate behaviour is bullshit & that is well known to all.

          • dwpittelli

            Straw man much?

          • CJ99

            No Jesus is not a strawman. You however can most charitibly be described as a fool.

          • dwpittelli

            Well we can’t all be as erudite and respectful as you.

        • HeilMary1

          Survivors of Magdalene laundries, Canadian residential “schools” and other Catholic hellholes would disagree with you.

          • dwpittelli

            OK, victims of Magdalene laundries and 2,250 dead in the Spanish Inquisition, among others, would disagree with me. That leaves, what, 60-90 million dead under atheistic communism who would agree with me?

          • Defamate

            People didn’t die because of atheism. They died because of totalitarian despots. People didn’t kill ‘in the name of atheism’ because atheism is not a religion, least of all a religion that says you must kill infidels.

            FFS

          • dwpittelli

            I agree that a specific religious teaching or practice can be declared evil, such as abuse of unwed mothers or the killing of “infidels.” Just as a specific atheistic philosophy or practice can be declare evil, such as “liquidating the Kulaks” or the Cultural Revolution. In all cases, not just the atheistic ones, policies are ultimately decided by those with the most power.

            From the standpoint of human cultural and psychological needs, Marxism-Leninism and Christianity fill the same role, as do many other philosophies and religions, which are always evolving and competing in a Darwinian sense, and sometimes fusing.

            Communist ideologies usually rejected religion because communism aimed to supplant religion as the final arbiter of truth and morality. Not having strong and independent religious leaders made certain evil acts a lot easier for them to impose, and where an independent religious authority remained (e.g., Poland) it was among the most vocal of communism’s opponents. Granted, there are other ways to restrain the power of a national executive, such as federalism and an independent judiciary, but that does not eliminate the cultural utility of religion.

          • Defamate

            Yes. Atheism is a lack of belief. I would say that what happened with Communism is that the leaders wanted to be worshiped as deities. Even Hitler did something similar with Nazi ideology – he, along with Himmler, put a great deal of effort into appealing to Germany’s old pagan religions, and building up a new ‘religion’ from that – a religion that worshiped Hitler as god on earth.

            So to say that ‘all of these things happened because of atheism’ is ridiculous at best. It’s just that the communist/fascist dictators chose to create a *new* religion, that was not one of the old religions, and was, for lack of a better term, ‘atheist’ about all other religions.

            If you think about it, we are all atheists.(about other religions). A Christian is an atheist – for 99% of religion. If you are a Hindu, but don’t believe in the Christian,god, you are showing a distinct lack of belief in Christianity, which makes you an atheist:P

          • HeilMary1

            Hitler was a never-excommunicated uber Catholic. And Stalin, Mussolini, the Diem brothers and Pol Pot went to Catholic schools.

          • dwpittelli

            But if people have a need for some organizing philosophy or religion, as history and anthropology would seem to indicate, then the fact that history’s worst dictators filled that void with an officially atheistic ideology itself resembling a particularly virulent religion, is not a coincidence.

          • Defamate

            The ideology was worship of the dictator.

          • CJ99

            I don’t doubt must of us have seen the religious reich describe atheism as a religion, its they’re fave boogeyman du jour. Yet I’ve never seen athiests involved in sex scandals yet. Nor have I seen then congregating in their own church / mosque / temple / royal order of water buffalo guildhall. Nor have they been spotted prosylitizing others to athiesm. Come to think of it I haven’t seen any making up that many fairy tales either.

          • HeilMary1

            Christianity has murdered at least a billion around the globe.

          • dwpittelli

            Perhaps you should provide a source, or even a specific claim. Otherwise someone might mistake you for a crank or something.

  • Rocky

    I just can’t understand why anyone worries about whether or not women get married. The degree of heightened emotion attached to this issue belies some interpretation of this choice as a personal affront. I’m not buying the marriage hype, I’m a single mom and I prefer it that way.

    • visionary_23

      They worry because virtually every sociological study suggests that, of all parental units (mom and dad, mom and mom, dad and dad, just dad, excluding orphans and group home children), single mother homes result in the worst outcomes for children, particularly male children. It’s not marriage, per se, but the idea that there are stable dual resources for children (which includes time and money). It’s just that marriage results in the most famous and stable resource situations for children (the data shows that couples who stay together without marriage are far more likely to split up, losing that benefit)

      In other words, it’s fairly important, and ironically, is most important to single mothers, who, of the above parental units, receive more government support per capita. The only way we finance such support is for the next generation of children to be well adjusted en masse to be productive when they come of age and then be taxed. The data shows that the worst way to accomplish that would be to have them all be from single mother homes.

      That’s why people care. Sometimes our individual decisions en masse DO affect society. Apologies if that’s not evident all the time.

      • CJ99

        there are no sociological studies that support your idiocy. You’re pulling reactionary obfuscation out of that vacuum you pretend to think with.

        btw I know you can’t stand being kicked in the butt regularly but since you’re continuing to be a shit disturber you’ll continue facing the consequences of your actions.

        • visionary_23

          Uh, there are quite a few studies — a cursory google search would reveal them.

          I get that you feel empowered to say any nonsense simply because you live in a feminist echo chamber, but do some research before you overtly make garbage up.

          And if the “consequences of my actions” on this site of citing provable conclusions borne out of data is to have feminist bigots like you uttering vulgarities like you have Tourette’s, then sign me up. Your ad hominem shaming ritual does more for those in favor of actual gender equality to demonstrate that feminism isn’t about that than I could ever do.

          • goatini

            CJ’s a male. So much for your discernment capabilities.

          • http://web.elastic.org/~fche/ Frank Ch. Eigler

            Are you saying males cannot inhabit feminist echo chambers? Stop othering me.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Since the comment wasn’t addressed to you, I don’t see how you can be ‘othered’. Unless you’re also visionary_23? Is that what you’re telling us?

          • CJ99

            Sockpuppets, wow I’m so surprised! (not).

          • http://web.elastic.org/~fche/ Frank Ch. Eigler

            visionary_23 described CJ99 of inhabiting a feminist echo chamber etc. goatini defended CJ99 by virtue of him being male. That can only make sense if goatini believes males cannot inhabit a feminist echo chamber. Since this is a feminist echo chamber, and I’m for the moment inhabiting it with y’all, this would mean that goatini believes I don’t belong here either: “othered” is the term of art unless I’m mistaken.

            Simple logical inference.

          • colleen2

            I think sock-puppet is a far more sensible explanation. A girl would have to be really dumb to believe your bullshit.

          • CJ99

            Frank is one of those illiterate shit flingers who thinks he can win arguments he doesn’t even undertand by eating alpha-ghetti & projectile vomiting on the wall. the really funny part is him thinking that makes him some kind of artist.

          • CJ99

            You do it to yourself. but nobody will shed crocodile tears over it.

          • colleen2

            Frank, you really need to fuck off.

          • HeilMary1

            You sound like hypocrite harpy gay-basher Maggie Gallagher whose weight gain from her unwed pregnancy scared off her dream partner. Now she has a sham marriage to an Indian immigrant, but all her straight marriage bullying won’t turn her into a centerfold worthy of any proposals from GOP playboys.

          • fiona64

            Uh, there are quite a few studies

            Then cite some. You’re making the affirmative assertion; it’s incumbent upon you to provide the evidence. Sending other people out to do your homework is lazy.

          • CJ99

            He knows his imaginary evidence is just that.

          • CJ99

            Lets review shall we. You make shit up & fling it all over then claim I’m “making up garbage”. In other words you bring up non existant “research” yet repeatedly refuse to cite any of it so you claim that makes me a liar. then you pretend your cherry on top argument is that I’m a female bigot after I’ve stated I’m not a woman but in fact defending women against you. At risk of quoting the Dos Aquis guy, I don’t always use words like moron or shit flinger but for you I will.

      • HeilMary1

        My abandoned friend and her brother turned out great! She’s a speech therapist and he’s a family man lawyer, despite being raised by a divorced mother whose husband never wanted kids and abandoned them early on. My abusive straight parents were completely unfit to raise kids, but their traditional appearances would escape your rebuke.

      • Rocky

        Every single instance is unique and most children of single moms are not deprived in any way. Hold on…going through every single mom I know in my head…yep, their children are averagely to above averagely healthy, happy, well-dressed, educated and loved. Mythbusters, right here.

    • colleen2

      I think Republicans worry about this because they are losing the women’s vote entirely. They think it’s because women aren’t marrying Republicans. The silly fuckers think that if we marry one of them we will see the error of our ways and be just as stupid as ‘laurie.

  • CJ99

    I can’t stop laughing at the religious wrongs claims that women, or anybody can just walk out in the street & instantly find dozens of people who’d “marry them for love”. Insane in the membrain doesn’t even come close. As the article stated its not easy finding someone your compatible with, I know this from personal experience. Love isn’t choosing some random religious zealot who wants to keep up appearances or make lots of babies for god.

    • laurie66bay

      Who said that a woman (or anyone) can just walk out into the street and instantly find someone who will marry them for love. Thats just silly.

      What people have said, is that if you avoid having sex with someone who isn’t willing to marry you for love, you are less likely to get pregnant (actually, it pretty much guarantees you wont) and that when you do have kids, you are less likely to end up poor.

      If you do have sex with men who arent willing to marry you, you are more likely to get pregnant with no partner and end up poor. Its pretty simple.

      You don’t even have to choose a religious zealot…go choose the dreadhead down the road with the birkenstocks as long as he loves you, you love him, and he marries you. You are statistically less likely to end up a poor single mother.

      • HeilMary1

        But you anti-choicers oppose single women also using contraception to avoid being single mothers. How long should single non-centerfold women like me remain virgins, especially when we greatly outnumber available men, thanks to our decades of wars? No one has or ever will propose to me, despite my extreme efforts.

      • CJ99

        You & your sockpuppet ilk. Despite your denials you’re fully aware of that. If it was true that ignorance is bliss you’d be the happiest person alive.

      • colleen2

        Once again. If conservative ‘men’ would keep their pants zippered up most of the problem of unwanted pregnancies would be solved. (as would the vast majority of bad sex) It’s not as if we are even mildly interested in the pool of disgusting misogynistic assholes that makes up the American conservative movement and it’s pathetic of y’all to insist that any decent woman would want to marry one of you to get out of poverty. Some women don’t think like whores and those women don’t vote for or shill for the cheap, selfish, domineering bullies constituting the conservative movement in the US. Y’all make horrible parents and worst neighbors.
        Besides, according to their ex-wives and prostitutes, Republican men are terrible in bed and the over use of alcohol makes them smell really bad.

    • minowe

      Good golly, CJ. I find it very difficult to believe that YOU aren’t finding lots of people with whom you are compatible! You’re so bright and reasonable! Oh well, they obviously don’t know what they’re missing.

      And I approve of your decision NOT to choose “some random religious zealot.” Sounds like you and that person might well not be compatible.

      • CJ99

        Dear EgoMuffin,

        here’s a lesson for you. a religious zealot (aka YOU) is never the right person. Bear in mind, this is not about ego which is why you never learn.

  • laurie66bay

    Wow. 339 comments. this must be the most successful Amanda Marcott column of all time. lololol

    • Jennifer Starr

      No, almost every time Amanda writes a column bitter MRA trolls seem to follow–they seem to have a personal obsession with her for some reason.

      • fiona64

        They really hate it when truth to power is spoken by a woman, don’t they? Poor things.

        • CJ99

          calling them poor things is a bit of a stretch but yeah. One thing I’ve learned in this life is everyone be they men, women, no matter where from everyone has a mind of their own. but its up to each 1 of us what we do with it. The real crime is not using it.

      • CJ99

        Probably cause she’s unobtanium to them with good reason. She thinks for herself & routinely outsmarts them with alarming predictability.

    • goatini

      And the guffawing buffoon continues to make a fool of himself.

      • CJ99

        As long as theres breathable are theres gonna be some fool who wastes it.

    • CJ99

      Amanadas success comes from one place, Amanda herself. Your spiteful petty antics change nothing.

  • VenturaCapitalist

    Some serious anger issues here.

    • colleen2

      Again. Most women aren’t whores and most women understand that marrying “for economic reasons” is a really bad idea.

      • CJ99

        I’ve said it before but all the skanks I’ve met are men.

        • colleen2

          I disagree. Republican women are just as bad or worse.

          • CJ99

            Was actually just thinking of skanks, repug wives are definately dumb as rocks, they’d have to be to get & remain hitched with such “men”

  • Defamate

    Everyone know how people such as Laurie claim to have expertise that they don’t actually have in order to win arguments on the internet. Well, I came across a fella today who ‘schooled’ me in embryology and brain death. I was using knowledge that I had gleaned from peer review studies and our own biologists/neuroscientists l-dan and cjvg…

    The guy claimed this, a few hours earlier:

    “”Your right my professional expertise in embryology and fetal development
    shall take a back seat to your ability to wikidiscuses this topic,”

    And then I search his history and he says this:

    “”I am a nurse at a faculty were I currently do direct care.””

    ————–

    So to shut me up, he lies and *very strongly* implies that he works in the field of embryology and fetal development…and then we find out that he’s only a nurse (no disrespect to nurses).

    • CJ99

      the fact that somebody so ignorant could find work as a nurse is an insult to other nurses. Puts me in mind of an electronics store manager I knew a decade ago who proclaimed publicly that “ohms law was repealed for lack of evidence”. Not surprisingly that store was closed down not long after & he’s out of work (though not only for that single bout of stupidity). Btw, ohms law has 1 thing in common with the law of gravity that being anyone trying to violate it can risk their health or their very life.

      • Defamate

        I have been told by cjvg, who has studied brain science,and one person named Niemand, from patheos that the ‘brain activity’ of a 6 week embryo is meaningless, and it originates from the brainstem…

        And that brain death can *also* include beating heart cadavers – where the cortex is mush, but the brain stem keeps the heart and other organs functioning. He told me that:

        No, in clinically defined brain death there is no activity in the
        brain stem. breathing at that point is depended on mechanical
        ventilation and cardiac functions are independent of neural activity.

        In a 5 week fetus the precursors to delta and beta waves are present they are not “bursts”

        The thing is though…it depends. From what I have read. Functioning brainstem with a dead cerebal cortex is a persistent vegetative state, but, since such patients are known to never recover…they are actually left to die and/or have their organs harvested. So no, even if it isn’t ‘clinical braindeath’ in the strictest sense, it’s still death!

        I am still not sure what the ‘precursors to delta and beta waves’ thingie means, I will have to talk to cjvg about that. But, I think it’s something to do with something known as ‘synchronicity’ and basically, those waves are not meaningful in any sense.

        A 13 week fetus unlike a brain dead person certainly has brain wave
        functions, those brain waves are detectable via positron emission
        topology almost as soon as the neural tube closes around week 5 by week 12 a fetus has low level reflexs

        cjvg told me about this, but she said it’s primarily from the brain stem, so I will have to badger her and find out. I know that the brain is already separated into it’s component ‘parts’ by this point, and that each part ‘knows it’s own function’, but again, I am not sure how meaningful this is, when it comes to sentience etc.

        He also went on to complain about how fetus as parasite is wrong, because parasites are ONLY of different species. I pointed out that fetii are functional parasites, and gave an example of a parasitic twin, and he tried to say that parasitic twins are actually asymmetrical or unequal conjoined twins, and therefore, not parasitic! Well then, wtf are they known as parasitic twins? It’s because they function like parasites! they have no brain, and they take resources from the host!

        • CJ99

          Definately listen to CJVG a lot more than that loon who thought he “schooled you”. they always come off soundling like Ronald McDonald lecturing the pope about religion.

    • Jennifer Starr

      One of Terri Schiavo’s nurses, Carla Sauer Iyer, tried to claim that Terri made regular visits to the nurses’ station to crack jokes—real credible claim, that one. *snark*

      • CJ99

        the only way to describe that is the patients are running the asylum. Perhaps patient is too charitble a word in that case.

      • Defamate

        He is a born again xtian and a nurse at a catholic hospital…

        • CJ99

          that explains a lot. but then catholic hospitals have no more credibility than jehovahs witnesses which is none.

      • Defamate
        • Jennifer Starr

          Oh, her–I guess i should go over and ‘scare’ her now, seeing as I’m so evil and all….. :)

          • Defamate
          • Jennifer Starr

            Yeah, it’s always interesting to be noticed … :) Well I have to go check up on my evil cornbead and my evil beef stew in the slow cooker, which is, of course, evil.

          • Defamate

            Sharon Diehl, one of our regulars, is over at LAN and has been debating them for days. Marcus Fenix, rhetorical assassin, looked at her profile picture and said that she was as ugly as the dog in the photo.

          • Jennifer Starr

            I looked at her picture–I think Marcus may need to get his eyes checked, as he couldn’t be more wrong about Sharon if he tried. She looks like a lovely person. I’d like to see how Marcus actually looks–I’m betting he’s no prize.

          • Defamate

            Well she has bigger balls than they do. They won’t even come here, or to Patheos to debate. They just brag about their bulletproof arguments.

            Speaking of which..did you know that infants are not sentient?

            Yes, an insect would be one example. Insects have no subjective awareness and thus should not be considered sentient. Although they may react to stimuli in a facsimile of pain, they are incapable of actual
            suffering.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Ugh–banging my head now….

          • Defamate

            His argument is that humans are the most specialist thing on the planet, however, and that this is what makes them intrinsically valuable:P

            . Human beings, in my opinion, are exceptional. We are the only
            terrestrial species capable of moral judgment and simply being human renders us worthy of intrinsic protection.

            My head is kind of reeling from all of the stupid today.

          • CJ99

            The irony of that is marcus words & actions disprove himself in so many ways.

          • Defamate

            All he has are semantic arguments and he tries to look smart by pointing out logical fallacies in other people’s arguments only he doesn’t understand the logical fallacies that he references…

          • CJ99

            Or as his gamer troll dudebro’s like to say: “obvious troll is obvious”.

          • Jennifer Starr

            I’m going to regret asking Don what he’s talking about, aren’t I?

          • Defamate

            He’s an idiot. I love it.

          • CJ99

            something most people here get that Marcus would never figure out is a persons worth or beauty isn’t appearance only. GRRR that guy’s ugly as they come and I’ve seen sum ugliness here today in this commentary alone.

          • Jennifer Starr

            And Mr. Corrales doesn’t seem to understand that pregnancy doesn’t begin at conception, it begins when the egg implants in the wall of the uterus. No test will detect a pregnancy until that happens. And therefore an egg that fails to implant is not a miscarriage. I wish I could help her out there, but none of my comments show up.

          • Defamate

            We were all banned from the last time we visited.

          • HeilMary1

            Marcus Fenix proves my point about antis being looksist Nazis at heart.

          • CJ99

            I’ve encountered marcus as well. disgusting as he is, he’s a gamer troll wannabe who wandered into some adult topics beyond his understanding.

          • CJ99

            Took a quick look. Reminds me of the bathroom floor the morning after a frat kegger.

          • Defamate
        • Jennifer Starr

          And Mary Lee who claims that being a broodmare is ‘a good thing’??? Chacun à son goût, I suppose.

          • Defamate

            Mary Lee made the stunning argument that abortion is anti-feminist, and that a woman’s true job is to undergo forced pregnancy, to be in touch with her true feminism, or something dumb like that.

    • HeilMary1

      He’s probably not even a nurse but a pampers delivery guy.

    • fiona64

      You would think that someone with all of that education would be able to know the difference between a facility and a faculty …

      • Lizzie

        Or even you’re/your

        • fiona64

          Heh. I had an anti-choicer on another site who didn’t know the difference between “assignment” and “assignation.” I told her that explained why (by her own admission) she had six kids by six different men …

  • Pammila Allen

    The problem with poverty is that it was an intentional trap set. The Republicans serve their masters the finance lobbyists. They don’t want a financially stable society, they can earn so much more from a society in financial distress. Look at the money to be made from defaulted debt, the late fees, the default interest rates, the over the limit fees, the collection fees, and the legal fees.

    Then that is not the end of it, these trapped populations won’t be able to establish new credit without higher interest rates, application fees, maintenance fees, deposits. They can make 10’s of thousands if not 100’s of thousands more off of these economically trapped populations.

    The Republicans help them accomplish this by refusing unemployment extensions, cutting food stamps, cutting what medicaid covers, cutting funding for mental health & rehabilitation services.. cutting funding to charities that help with weatherization, utility assistance, and food pantries. This forces people to sacrifice paying creditors when they need these basic services. This eventually drives them to the trap… then they refuse to increase wages as cost of living keeps getting increased.

    There are a lot of misogynist religious groups that just like kicking the female population and blaming them – slight of hand while the fleece the nation.