Who Would Jesus Harass? Anti-Choicers Use Christmas to Double Down on Clinic Bullying


Christmas: A time for getting together with family, exchanging gifts, eating yourself silly, and falling asleep in front of a sporting event while sugar-high children play with their new toys. Or, if you’re an anti-choice obsessive, it’s a time of year to double down on women who get abortions, demonizing them as the worst people who have ever existed in the history of the world.

This year, instead of the usual comparisons between abortion and the Holocaust, anti-choicers have decided to imply that women who have abortions are stealing Jesus. As ThinkProgress reports, anti-choice activists are holding “empty manger” harassment campaigns at clinics and putting out risible press releases with quotes like: “Would Planned Parenthood have aborted Jesus?”

To give them the benefit of the doubt, this is probably not meant to be a literal-minded protest. The whole thing doesn’t make sense. It is quite likely that few to no women going into abortion clinics have had recent visitations from angels explaining that their virgin conception is the result of God’s desire that they bring forth the new Christian savior. Presumably, God is all-mighty enough to know ahead of time if the lady he’s selecting for savior-bearing is “up to the task,” so the possibility of abortion is moot anyway. Also, if one lady opts out, we know there are plenty of volunteers.

The argument seems to be that Jesus was a baby once, and babies are good, therefore you have to have a baby right now, regardless of whether you think this is a good time to have one. Otherwise… we won’t have any babies, and therefore we’ll have empty mangers? Abortion has been legal for 40 years now, and the fear that women will simply cease to have babies if they are not forced to has been proven utterly false. Or maybe the concern is that any babies you do have or will have in the future will somehow be less Jesus-like, or maybe just less cute? In what case, they should clarify that position and see where it gets them.

Obviously, “We like this particular baby, so everyone else should be forced to have more babies” is not an argument. It hardly even pretends to be an argument. It’s not really a metaphor or any other rhetorical device like it, as those only work in service of an argument, and there isn’t one here. What’s really going on, therefore, is just plain old demonizing and bullying: Implying, for no reason whatsoever, that having an abortion is somehow about taking Jesus away from people. It’s a claim latched onto for no other reason than to maximize hurtfulness and demonize women who get abortions as much as possible, even if it’s trussed up in the disguise of “persuasion.”

Conservative anti-choice Christians like to champion themselves as compassionate, loving people who follow in the footsteps of Jesus Christ, but stunts like this force people watching to instead regard them as angry, judgmental people whose obsession with controlling other people’s sex lives has sucked all compassion out of them. We are, after all, talking about people who specifically seek out women, many of whom are having a difficult time as it is, to bully and shame. They’re so lacking in compassion, in fact, that they can’t wait to use the Christmas season to accuse women of wanting to take away Christmas with their private sexual and reproductive health decisions.

Make no mistake, there are lots of Christians out there who are compassionate, who do take the need to be kind and loving to others to heart. Many of them, in fact, work in the world of reproductive justice. The Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice and Catholics for Choice are two very important groups that demonstrate that there are people who turn to faith for moral reasons. But with the Christian right, stunts like the “empty manger” nonsense end up showcasing the mean-spirited and frankly irrational heart of reactionary politics wrapped up in religion. And the claims that these kinds of cruel actions are “just” an expression of faith and shouldn’t be criticized as the expressions of sadism that they actually are increasingly sound hollow.

Take, for instance, Sean Hannity trying to give cover to Phil Robertson, who was recently suspended from the reality TV show Duck Dynasty for racist, sexist, and homophobic comments he gave to a reporter from GQ. Hannity tried to play off the suspension as some kind of religious bigotry towards Christians, by downplaying the comments Robertson made as “old-fashioned traditional Christian sentiment and values.”

Setting aside the notion that calling something “religious” somehow exempts it from being criticized, I have to point out the actual content of the quote that Hannity specifically singled out as an example of that old-time religious sentiment:

“It seems like, to me, a vagina—as a man—would be more desirable than a man’s anus. That’s just me. I’m just thinking: There’s more there! She’s got more to offer. I mean, come on, dudes! You know what I’m saying?”

Interesting theological statement, there, Robertson. Can you point to the part of the Bible where it says a man should marry a woman because she’s got two holes down there instead of one? I must have missed that one in Sunday school. (He also dismissed the civil rights movement as unimportant, something that I’d love to hear the supposed religious arguments for.)

At a certain point, people figure out that what’s going on here is less deeply religious people acting on faith, and more people who have ugly, reactionary attitudes dressing them up in faith to deflect. Subjecting women to irrational nonsense and emotional strife because they’re trying to enter an abortion clinic is bullying behavior for its own sake—but dress it up in religion, and suddenly the people doing it can pretend they’re trying to be compassionate when they’re actually being cruel. Nowhere is that more obvious than when people take Christmas not to be a time for peace and love, but a time to double down on their abuse of women who are having a tough time as it is.

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  • Beatrix S.L

    Pretty sure a magic fetus like Jesus would have no issue rendering an abortion null. Anyways, do they think immaculate conceptions are still a thing and the women going into clinics are Mary equivalents? lol

    • HeilMary1

      And we know they would re-crucify Jesus for being non-white, Marxist, feminist, gay-friendly, anti-waterboarding, anti-fracking, anti-Fox, etc.

      • CJ99

        that same description could be applied to most who are not mentally unstable.

    • CJ99

      I think those who oppose the rights of others are practicing the immaculate deception.

  • Miriam Dunn

    If you’re going to start using the phrase “anti-choice”, you should probably also adopt a new one for yourselves, like “anti-life” or “pro – infanticide”–since you’re so fair & all.

    • fiona64

      No one is “anti-life” or “pro-infanticide.” I realize that the anti-choice are not known for nuanced thinking, but you’re just being ridiculous. It is not “pro-life” to force a woman to carry an unwanted or doomed pregnancy to term to satisfy your personal beliefs — it is, in fact, anti-choice.

    • cjvg

      you are so right!
      In actuality we should be using the term pro-life. Clearly we are the only ones protecting and honoring the actual life that is already present (the woman). All that concern, worshipping and protecting of, a non existent potential life that could possible maybe after sufficient gestation, develop enough to become an actual life, just like the life of the woman you so callously dismiss and ignore!
      You and your group however clearly fit the anti-life and anti-choice definition since you do not care about the only actual life involved (the woman) and do not care what choice she wants to make or has to make for her life! Her life and her wants and needs are non entities in your equation, so don’t you dare to claim a pro-life title!
      Ps infanticide is done on infants which are already born, please get some god damn education instead of brainlessly spouting your I am a superior warrior for jesus feel good soundbites

      • Miriam Dunn

        I know quite a bit more about newborns/infants than the average person, actually. But that’s off topic. It’s unimportant to me that you don’t like my use of the word infanticide.
        My point was that to use “anti-choice” versus “pro-choice” is, at best, misleading. Since supporters of abortion don’t acknowledge a fetus as a baby or infant, at the very least the terms should be “pro-abortion” and “anti-abortion”.
        Also, it’s amusing how you invoke both the names of God & Jesus in your rant, while spewing that anyone who disagrees with you is a religious nut. :)

        • goatini

          Since supporters of forced birth and gestational slavery don’t acknowledge the ONLY person, the ONLY citizen, and the ONLY entity with civil, human and Constitutional rights in the equation – the living, breathing WOMAN – as a person, citizen, or human being – at the very least the terms should be anti-life, anti-woman, and anti-choice.

          As CJVG so eloquently said – “You and your group however clearly fit the anti-life and anti-choice definition since you do not care about the only actual life involved (the woman) and do not care what choice she wants to make or has to make for her life! Her life and her wants and needs are non entities in your equation, so don’t you dare to claim a pro-life title!”

        • cjvg

          For someone who claims to know quite a bit about newborns/infants you seem not to be able to understand that a fetus is NOT a infant or a baby, just like a toddler is NOT a teenager or an adult.

          apparently your “knowing quite a bit” stopped way before developmental stages and the enormous difference they make in what can rightfully be called a life versus a potential life!

          It is laughable (and quite sad and pitiful since you are to blind to see the irony in your own statements) how you claim knowledge, understanding and compassion for life while proving the direct opposite of such in every word you utter.

          PS; when I am naming you as a religious nut, I actually have to invoke a jesus or a god to do so, quite unavoidable my dear.

          • Andrea McDavid

            I’m not sure it’s that haters don’t see, I think it may be that they are attached to the strange mixture of hating on someone while at the same time thinking they are gaining gods approval. It’s like weaning someone off a mix of meth and crack – very difficult and sometimes dangerous. There is actually a physical parallel because when people are hunting or preying or bullying, they get a low level adrenaline rush which is like meth and when they feel they have hit a target the get a dopamine reward rush of pleasure. It’s pretty much exactly the same brain and adrenal chemistry pattern in hunting, war, video games and violent or predatory sex. Humans with a dominant primitive hunter mindset, who are not evolved to override the urge to hunt their own species, are primitively evolved to crave it.

          • CJ99

            I said something similar above in a different way before reading this. combined with long distance communication & the false anonymity people think they have it creates the illusion that retribution is unlikely.

        • Andrea McDavid

          God is not contained in religion nor is Jesus. Jesus said that after the sermon on the mount. Yes he did. Read your bible. He said to a man concerned as to which temple he should go to, that he didn’t need a temple because his body is the temple and if he keeps it clean the spirit will reside within. Actually the correct translation of those Hebrew words says more precisely that “a persons conscience or conscious presence is the temple, keep your conscience clean and the spirit will reside within that persons SPIRIT” or thereabouts. Geddit?

      • anja

        There are a large number of people who call themselves “pro-life” believe that access to abortion services is necessary for women’s health and that RvW was the right decision. There was a recent poll (Gallup I think) that put it at about 56%.

        • cjvg

          That means you are pro-choice

          • anja

            Naturally!

    • BJ Survivor

      Personally, I think the term “anti-choice” is far too tepid to describe the likes of those such as yourself. I call you “forced-birthers” or “misogynists” or “bible-babblers” or “pro-LIARS.” Those terms are WAY more accurate than “anti-choice.”

  • fiona64

    Conservative anti-choice Christians like to champion themselves as
    compassionate, loving people who follow in the footsteps of Jesus
    Christ, but stunts like this force people watching to instead regard
    them as angry, judgmental people whose obsession with controlling other
    people’s sex lives has sucked all compassion out of them. We are, after
    all, talking about people who specifically seek out women, many of whom
    are having a difficult time as it is, to bully and shame. They’re so
    lacking in compassion, in fact, that they can’t wait to use the
    Christmas season to accuse women of wanting to take away Christmas with
    their private sexual and reproductive health decisions.

    WWJD, indeed …

  • expect_resistance

    The antis will use any excuse to bully women. It’s insane how they think almost everything is a personal affront to Christmas. Especially a women exercising her civil right to bodily autonomy.

  • HeilMary1

    “It seems like, to me, a vagina—as a man—would be more desirable than a man’s anus. That’s just me….”

    Except when those lady parts are gruesomely shredded, bloody, infected and incontinent from obstetric injuries! Then Hannity and his buds will seek out holy annulments and harems!

    • CJ99

      I agree that guys butts are not very attractive despite being a guy with a butt. then again maybe thats exactly the reason.

      • BJ Survivor

        I have to say that buttholes, in general, just don’t do it for me. My husband is fascinated with my butthole and I’ve tried to accommodate that whim, but I just do not concur and cannot derive any sort of satisfaction from buttplay. Probably has something to do with the fact that as a nurse I clean lots of buttholes far more often than I would otherwise wish and I just find no sexiness in the general butthole area, just sewage that must be managed. That said, my husband says I have a cute butthole, whatever that means.

        • CJ99

          A very cheeky subject indeed.

          • RonPaul2012

            Good one.

      • Andrea McDavid

        I don’t have a guys butt but I find them very attractive lol – especially when I have a wooden spoon in my hand and a few spare seconds while I’m frying his eggs up.

        • CJ99

          Remind me never to make you mad ;P

  • HeilMary1

    The “Guest” troll here is pro-DEAD mothers.

    • fiona64

      Since supporters of abortion don’t acknowledge a fetus as a baby or
      infant, at the very least the terms should be “pro-abortion” and
      “anti-abortion”.

      Loved that little sally on “Guest’s” part … which demonstrated that “Guest” has no understanding of basic biology whatsoever.

      • Jennifer Starr

        But he claims to know more about infants and newborns than the ‘average’ person–supposedly–lol.

  • Megan Shank

    This column effin’ rocks. Bam, bam, bam! Go Amanda, go.

  • Ineedacoffee

    Forced birthers, I cant even consider them human.

  • marshmallow

    “”The lengths to which people will go to kill defenseless babies in the womb are criminal, terroristic and cowardly. Everyone who does so should face an advocate for the baby who will physically fight to stop the crime. 50 million babies killed in their mother’s wombs in America. The slaughter of the innocents. There’s a payday someday!””

    ————–

    ^commenter over at Mother Jones

    • HeilMary1

      And yet those idiot fetal idolaters never bother with the “baby” tampon funerals they should be attending every day!

      • BJ Survivor

        Right? That’s the salvo I always fling, because the forced-birther dumbfucks wax on and on about microscopic persons, yet either won’t acknowledge (the smarter among them) or deny/decry such action (the completely brainless rest), but if they actually believed their own bullshit, then they would actually be holding funerals for used feminine hygiene products.

        • CJ99

          Their fetish is so weird I don’t even have a name for it.

          • HeilMary1

            Priests would rebel against the Vatican if they had to bless icky bloody tampons! Why do you think they’re gynophobic in the first place?!

            As for tampon funerals, imagine the Hallmark sympathy cards and SNL spoof commercials!

  • Jonenred

    poor amanda marcotte, still acting like a rebellious teenager..

    • marshmallow

      That is not an argument. Just stupidity.

      • Andrea McDavid

        Do people who have a lynch mob mentality recognize that they are the lynch mob types (jonenred) when they are seeing a lynch mob on tv lol. Holy cow I think I just stated the obvious. That’s sure to attract…you guessed it…a lynch mob.

        • CJ99

          The certainly do know it but refuse to admit so. Something I realized a long time ago is theres a certain adrenaline rush to be had in such groups not unlike watching jerry springer, boxing, tv wrestling or even some horror movies. A very visceral sensation I have trouble describing but its very real & very addictive. I guess one description for it could be “Fight club fever”.

          • Andrea McDavid

            I’m pretty sure there’s no such thing as forgiveness, just payment – since we and even our thoughts are just energy, it must be balanced sooner or later. The whole Jesus is absorbing our sins is the most diabolical con job ever constructed. It’s a gateway to living hell and who knows what kind of oblivion on the other side, I think. Wow how terrifying for them. Yikes. Please feel free to contradict me. This is something I’ve pondered my whole life. Glad to meet someone else with the stomach for it.

    • CJ99

      We should all rebel against arrogance such as yours.

    • Jennifer Starr

      Is that meant to be a cogent argument of some sort?

      • marshmallow

        Now now, don’t be so judgmental Jenn!

        (Libel is your pastime)

        haha. She is a barrel of laughs, that one.

    • HeilMary1

      Spoken like a true anti-Christ fascist!

  • Jonenred

    “so they take out their frustrations on people who can’t fight back just to feel superior.”

    –this comment coming from someone who supports legalized child murder.

    • marshmallow

      Do tell us, how much time should women spend in jail for the crime of murdering their unborn children?

      30 years? Life? Death penalty?

      • Jonenred

        what do mothers usually get when they murder their newborn infants? 1-2 yrs?

        • marshmallow

          Just answer the question. What kind of punishment do you think women should receive for inducing a miscarriage on a walnut sized clump of cells. Death? Life in prison? 30 years? Just speak plainly honey.

          • Jonenred

            for killing an unborn child? We’ll, what happened before 1973 roe ? We’re woman being jailed for illegal abortions?

          • marshmallow

            Just answer the question sweetie. You believe, in your heart, ever so strongly, that abortion is no different than shooting a newborn in the head. That it is the most vile of murders.

            So, tell us, what kind of sentence should women receive for viciously murdering their unborn babies? 30 years? Life in prison? Death penalty?

            P..S. 91% of abortions occur before 13 weeks, when it is smaller than a prune. 61% occur before 9 weeks, when it is smaller than a jellybean. There are no limbs, only limb buds. There is no tearing – it comes out whole, often in the embryonic sac. This is what a typical abortion looks like:

            http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ls6w7phG8f1qi68z9.jpg

            ^abortion at roughly 7 weeks

            http://i39.tinypic.com/301j1wo.jpg

            ^Is what it looks like when it comes out whole, in a typical induced miscarriage

          • colleen2

            In order to answer your question this person would have to consider a pregnant woman an actual person. This is clearly too much of a feat of empathy and imagination for the religious right.

          • marshmallow

            If he truly believed that abortion is murder and that his position is morally superior and above reproach then ze should be able to give a straight answer…

          • BJ Survivor

            In order to answer your question this person would have to consider a pregnant woman an actual person. This is clearly too much of a feat of empathy and imagination for the religious right.

            QFT

          • EdinburghEye

            Also, while prolifers routinely use “abortion is murder!” as rhetoric, even they don’t actually believe it: it’s just an excuse for forcing women.

          • Jennifer Starr

            You really don’t think it’s murder, do you?

          • CJ99

            He really doesn’t think at all. He parrots what the televangelist crowd tells him to say.

          • HeilMary1

            Coffee, consecrated wine, and hundreds of plants naturally induce miscarriages. Jesus himself served abortifacient miracle wine to the Cana bride!

        • HeilMary1

          What do wife-killing adulterous husbands like Eric Prince get when pregnancy cancers and childbirth injuries knock off their unwanted brood mares? — billion dollar Pentagon contracts to murder more non-white, non-Christian “heretics” and church weddings to their colluding mistresses!

          • Andrea McDavid

            I salute you.

        • Marlowe53

          So, you want to put women in prison because they cannot afford to be pregnant?

        • CJ99

          what did you get for pirating satellite tv on your ginormous tinfoil hat?

    • HeilMary1

      You support fetuses grossly maiming and murdering billions of their captive hosts just to win over PEDOPHILE PRIESTS.

      • Jonenred

        fuck off satan

        • CJ99

          That description only fits one person here. that would be you.

        • Jennifer Starr

          Listen to that lovely Christian language…

        • fiona64

          “And they will know we are Christians by our love, by our love …”

          • CJ99

            I won’t touch his love with rubber gloves on.

        • colleen2

          I think that’s supposed to be “get thee behind me Satan!”
          Why is it that the men of the religious right are such violent potty mouths?

        • HeilMary1

          Your misogyny is a Satan magnet, troll.

    • Marlowe53

      Blastocysts, zygotes and fetuses are not children. They are future human beings while the people who are carrying them are actual human beings. Not to mention, there is no mention of abortion in the Bible.

    • CJ99

      Go ahead & report us all to the cops then & see just how far you get.

      I can see it now:
      “Hello 911 here state the nature of the emergency”

      “teh big bloo meanies on da net r demanding I not be a huge bungholio”

      CLICK

  • CJ99

    If Jesus was to harass anyone (I don’t think he would) it would be those those who use him as a big stick to threaten others when the rest of us who ignore their fundamentalist tripe.

  • BJ Survivor

    Dontcha know, Andrea, that “men” just can’t help themselves when some trollop opens her legs in invitation. It’s like an inexorable vortex, it is. “Men” just can’t be held responsible for succumbing. Because “jesus” or some such shit.

    • Andrea McDavid

      If mimbo’s refuse to carry the responsibility for putting a condom on before falling between those lovely legs big boy, they can get fixed.

      • RonPaul2012

        And remember. If the pregnancy goes wrong, it’s always the woman’s fault for *Putting the child in harm’s way*

        NVM the man also played a part in the pregnancy by, you know, ejaculating…so shouldn’t he too be culpable?

        • CJ99

          men who think that way (of whom I’m not 1) think its “teh wimminz fault” cause they spend 9 months pregnant while the guy spends a whole 90 seconds squeezing the creamer.

      • CJ99

        I’m sure they’d be lined up around the block at most drugstores if they realized putting the latex on could be a kinky form of foreplay.

    • CJ99

      I’m half expecting them to trot out Neil degrasse Tyson or some other ego filled talking head to explain “how women are black holes who suck in men”

      • Andrea McDavid

        My goodness, I do like your sense of humour lol bwahaha. To be quite frank, I think all this friction between men and women, and I don’t mean that in a pleasurable way, is just envy for the one thing they all come through to get here. They cannot just breed their own family if they get lonely or have the urge to procreate. Women forget that. They can’t breed a workforce or an army or fill the church pews without our cooperation. And that powerlessness breeds what I indelicately call CNUT EVNY. I’ve seen some men’s forums where they brag that as soon as they have a synthetic womb they will finally be able to shrug us off. I know most men don’t think like that but…seriously…it’s out there.

        • CJ99

          I’m by far not the 1st to notice this but sex isn’t just for having kids. but those I make fun of still haven’t got it yet. but really they make it so easy to make fun of them.

          • Andrea McDavid

            Oh please do continue, I need the laughs, otherwise my head might start slowly rotating 360 lol. OMG I’m pretty sure this comment will get me on a watch list. I’ll make sure to pat my ass and look over my shoulder when I pass security cameras in future. Got to keep those big boyz entertained and (hopefully, secretly) on our side eh.

          • CJ99

            I’m probably been on a watch list for some time. I feel like I’m turning into that Johnny fever character from that old tv comedy WKRP (sans mustache). Right now I’m imagining a Linda Blair moment ;P cept its not you doing it but 1 of those I poke fun of. Theres another article here I was commenting on yesterday. Myself & a few others doing battle with a loon calling himself “david taylor”. that guy was a pill, of the bit george carlin did about “7 words you can’t say on tv” I said them all more than once. He even screamed racist when another caucasian called him whitebread or cracker which provided a few needed distractions.

            For me the comedic side is a needed distraction from the bizzarre insanity the cretins tirelessly come up with. It’s probably the only thing that’s kept me sane in this world where so often Science fiction & fantasy makes more sense than the real world does.

          • Andrea McDavid

            Oh so true. Pleased to meet you.

  • L-dan

    Considering what his mother must have gone through, if you take the whole story as truth, I’d say he’d absolutely be on women’s side in this. Imagine what suddenly pregnant “no, really, an angel told me I’m bearing God’s son” Mary had to deal with from her family as just one example.

  • colleen2

    There’s never been an abortion that a man couldn’t prevent by wearing a condom or keeping his DNA to himself.

    Thank you. I find it remarkable that in arguments about reproductive rights and responsibilities the fact that a male is at least 50% responsible for each and every unwanted pregnancy is so seldom mentioned.

  • HeilMary1

    Yeah, where’s their outrage over adultery-promoting and abortion-resulting Viagra?

    • CJ99

      Yet the blame condoms or “teh pillz” for “evil fornications”

  • Marlowe53

    If there are any United Methodist women reading this, take heed. Even though our church was a founding member of the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice, conservative North American members of the church are, with the help of African and South American converts, working very hard to remove our church as a supporter of the RCRC and to change the Social Discipline to oppose abortion. We have less than three years to form a movement of church members to challenge this group which has been working against reproductive justice for decades and which is on the verge of victory in a church that has respected women since its inception.

    • CJ99

      I’ve been in a number of churches all my life here in north america. What your describing is so nearly universal that we can’t even get an honest count of those who oppose their bigoted views as those who do oppose them are in fear of becoming targets themselves. as for myself I’ve abandoned all churches, but I must say I’ve not abandoned the creator. its become clear that the majority of churches have become a huge obstacle to a connection with the creator instead of being a clear path.

      • Andrea McDavid

        After the sermon on the mount, Jesus himself said the following to a man who asked which temple he should go to, in order to hear more sermons like the sermon on the mount…and Jesus replied: “The body is the temple of the spirit, keep it clean and the spirit will reside within.”

        Some of the most classic truths guiding us to spiritual freedom are in the bible. It’s also a proven fact there are about 1,300 blatant mistranslations of words that nobody wants to “rock the boat” and change. Here’s a massive one. In Genesis chapter 2 it says Adam was alone and full of sorrow and so god made Eve. And then it says she will be Adams “ezer kenegdo” which is Herbrew. Those two words are translated into “helper” or “help meet”. I asked an Israeli friend what those two words mean. She easily translated them to mean “someone stronger than you who will save you” and “equal and opposite counterpart or where the two edges of something meet to hold each other up like in a peak in a house of cards”. They have to be equal or the won’t balance and will fall down.

        Now can you imagine why those words are published in over 340 bibles to mean a diminutive term like “helper” or “help meet” when it’s simple and clear what the translation really means. Ezer is in the bible 21 times. Only the one time it refers to Eve does it mean anything but “strong savior in time of distress”

        Now considering all the hoopla over contraceptives and who is having the hoopla, can you imagine what motive anyone would have for mistranslating the true meaning of Eve to be something diminutive, subordinate and basically, someone who is obliged to OBEY their husbands wish to have sex and potentially make her16th pregnancy or whatever number she has survived already, despite her begging him to use his hand or let her use hers or at least pull the hell out. And could anyone possibly imagine this was in order to grow the congregation, take over, grow and army, take over, grow a work force of peasants to feed the army and congregation who will…..take over everyone who doesn’t follow their religion. Hmmmm. It’s beginning to look a lot like christmas all year round with all this…getting snowed under…crapola.

        • CJ99

          that is just more confirmation of something I’ve known for a while, and susptected since i was a kid. Stuff like that in the bible isn’t just accidental mistranslations, its deliberate lies. What’s worse is parts of the bible are so clearly impossible. Like the passage in Genesis you mentioned, a bit later on adam & eve have 2 sons, now since their allegedly pregenitors of every human since then how would 2 sons (no daughters) even have kids? For that matter how would they successfully reproduce if they did have daughters? that would mean we’re either all products of incest or homosexual incest. With what we know know about genetics (ie genetic diversity) there’s no way its even possible. The same thing goes for the Noahs ark story which has even more fatal flaws, that goes without even bringing up its lifted directly from earlier babylonian mythos. Ironically that perticular tidbit was brought to my attention by an evangelical christian who loaned me a copy of “the epic of gilgamesh”

          • Andrea McDavid

            Yup, it’s nice when you get a bit of proof for something you knew all along. That’s the beauty of age. You realize your intuition and gut are so reliable and other people’s words should never ever ever be taken above them. I think they were sloppy in the bible, lying this way and that, casually, because they never imagined all the peasants would one day learn to read lol and add to that, that we would be able to share information on the internet. Talk about getting caught with your pants down eh? Now I ask myself, who has the nerve to make this public knowledge??? (oh me, me, I do, pick me “teach”….)

            Honestly in all my days reading the comments sections of the internet this is the best thread ever. The funniest and most honest and serious, all at the same time. I’m delighted.

            As for using my real name, and this IS my real name, and you can see who I am on facebook, (the hot blonde men have been trying to impregnate willy nilly for such a looooong time in so many devious ways (breaking condoms, date rape drug, plain old rape…you name it they’ve tried it) I decided my career in high flying roles as a project manager for oil and gas, oh the irony, and yes I’ve been to “”THE”” rodeo”…well, I only used fake names to kinda keep my career from being in tatters but it’s in tatters now anyway so the gloves are off, and it’s way more fun spanking with your bare hands lol.

  • CJ99

    I’m certain Jesus wouldn’t go easy on guys like that for a myriad of reasons many of which revolve around putting women in such hardship to begin with aside from demanding unprotected sex.

  • CJ99

    If he made himself known Jesus would smack them upside the head and yell “I never said that you ignorant buffoon”. I’ve often said it but if they did know he was back most of them would be after him with torches & pitchforks looking for a 2nd crucifixion.

  • Andrea McDavid

    Actually it is the mother that is fighting back. You see, many people believe that an unwanted, unsupportable child, that will ruin her life and condemn her to poverty and vulnerable aloneness (because your chances of marrying when you drop out of college and are a single mom are way lower than if you abort and carry on), are in fact fighting back to stop a child hijacking their life and capturing and trapping them into a hellish life of exhausting, isolating parenthood, alone and sad. Yes that’s exactly how it can be and usually is if you don’t already have an established career that you can put aside for a few years and pick up later. Have you ever tried to raise a kid alone on a waitress salary???? In many of not most people’s minds, in this instance, abortion is SELF DEFENSE – which is perfectly legal.

    • CJ99

      The tired excuse is that the unborn is sentient with a soul at the moment of conception is something I doubt is true at all. the body of the unborn is still part of the woman & can’t support itself or being a fully independent person. Those who understand medicine could explain it better than myself. The time when birth occurs is the best description of when the fetus becomes a person.

      and yes what you say is very true. society as it is now isn’t really capable of assisting a woman who unexpectedly finds herself to be a single parent at all, quite the opposite is typically what happens. Those children born in such situations often have rough childhoods leading to rough adulthood as do their parents.

  • Andrea McDavid

    The bible has never been translated honestly. See my explanation of the (deliberate and willful) mistranslation of ezer kenego one post above and find out a fairly obvious motive. Ah but the beauty in the bible is that it starts with a man made mistranslated lie and it ends in Revelation saying that if anyone misquotes or mistranslates what is written they are going to hell so, the people ordering the mistranslation (it can’t possibly be an accident, those words are common and anyone whose native language is Hebrew can easily translate them) are snookered. I’ve wondered if this is why western countries protect Israel. Was there a deal of silence. I’m sure the Jew have figured this out. Actually I know they have because I met a young rabbit in Israel when I was there 32 years ago and he found me reading the bible while waiting for an interview for a job. He laughed and the first thing he said was that they study the mistranslations in the bible and laugh at us. So it’s common knowledge among scholars of sacred texts. Possibly one of the best kept secrets on the planet. But not now, thanks to the internet. The truth shall set you free – Jesus said that too ha ha. They are so totally snookered. Cripes lol.

    • RonPaul2012
      • Andrea McDavid

        I did enjoy it and thank you. I like the comments sections more than the articles even. My favourite debates (if you can call them that – I think verbal evisceration is more accurate and fair – they have it coming) are between people who think they know god and people who actually listen to their inner voice, which ironically is exactly what the bible tells people to do – right out of Jesus mouth no less. Yikes.

    • CJ99

      If I were one of those who butchered the bible for their own ego / fame / wealth (or all 3) and met the creator or Jesus I’d be beyond terrified. Can you imagine what they’d be up against knowing what they did was directly against the creator? I don’t and I don’t think I wanna know either. My own imperfection are enough to worry about.

      • Andrea McDavid

        Yup.