• CJ99

    As long as religion treats some people as inherently better than others which is unjustifiable nothing else they say will ever matter.

  • colleen2

    I noticed the swooning and found it disturbing. The fact of the matter is that you just can’t pretend to care about the poor or even have a coherent poverty eradication plan while you are simultaneously treating women like servants and breeding livestock. And that is precisely what this Pope and every other Pope does.
    I DO NOT want to hear about how non-Catholics can’t comment. Y’all lost that argument when you started using our tax money to discriminate and impose your beliefs on all of us.

    • Quis ut Deus

      imo, it’s nothing but an insincere public relations gambit

      • BJ Survivor

        Exactly! I keep saying “new pope, same as the old pope, but with prettier words.” It’s all bullshit, just like “compassionate conservatism” or “pro-life feminist.”

        • Quis ut Deus

          Hey bj, wb!!

          Hope you had a good holiday, or whatever, if you did

          They have been shit-talking us over at liveaction

          http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2013/11/27/two-women-different-outcomes-how-u-s-foreign-assistance-policy-harms-women/#comment-1146873358

          Apparently you are a :

          ‘banshee’

          ‘crass b1tch’

          • CJ99

            Considering who says those things I’d call them compliments if they said it to me. All I ever get is grumpy old bear ;P

          • Quis ut Deus

            if you are gonna be trolling LAN, temporarily put your disqus profile on private

            They will follow us here…

            And this is where we mock them:)

          • Quis ut Deus

            So far they have accused me of being:

            sick
            depraved
            a stalker
            evil
            obscene
            plagiarism

            I love the plagiarism accusation, which happens in two kinds of cases

            1) I say ‘so and so scientist wrote this’ and then I paste his words. Apparently that counts as plagiarism, even though I cited my source…

            2) If i blockquote their replies…they think that is plagiarism

            Seriously.

            How fucking stupid can you be?

          • Ella Warnock

            There are none so blind as those who cannot see. Snork.

          • CJ99

            almost afraid to ask but whats a snork?

          • Quis ut Deus

            A snork is used to kill the innocent baybeez!!!!!!!!!!1111

          • CJ99

            so thats what they call the limb ripping brain melting machine that exists only in their dreams? was it invented by clive barker? or perhaps ed wood?

          • Quis ut Deus

            I suspect that it aligns with what recent studies have said about conservatives…

            They are easily grossed out/afraid

            They oppose gay sex because it scares them, and because they find it to be unsettling

            They fear non-existence, because they believe they are special snowflakes

            They identify too strongly with the fetus, and they have nightmares that their bodies are the ones being ripped apart by evil mommy

            They are risk averse.

            ———-

            I am actually more conservative than liberal. I am OCD, afraid of germs, filled with anxiety most of the time, and terribly terribly risk averse

            Yet somehow I ended up as a liberal, and not a con

            I guess it’s because I am able to realize that my own hangups should not dictate how others live their lives..

          • CJ99

            Perhaps their afraid of gay sex cause they might be found out?

          • Ella Warnock

            Something between a laugh and a snort of derision. ;->

          • BJ Survivor

            /eyeroll You should definitely consider those to be compliments! And yes, forced-birthers are pretty fucking stupid. And disingenous. And just all-around full of shit.

          • CJ99

            You forgot the best one: Cool beans ;P

          • BJ Survivor

            Considering the source, I will definitely consider those to be compliments!

        • Quis ut Deus

          http://liveactionnews.org/rhetorical-object-lessons-four-ways-to-improve-your-game/#comment-1147692569

          MarcusFenix bragging that he crushed us

          what a joke

          his entire argument was ‘pregnancy is an exception to the rule of forced biological support because I say so’

          What a narcissist.

          • Ella Warnock

            I’ll take “Delusions of Grandeur” for $1000, Alex.

          • Quis ut Deus

            Ella, I messaged you like 500 times

            damn you for cluing me in to the activities of PrincessJasmine

            omfg

            anyways, it’s all on the other thread

            I should be playing my game!

            but instead, once again, I am playing Disqus!

          • Ella Warnock

            I’m sorry, I’ve been wiped out with bronchitis the past few days. I slept for, like, 20 hours straight! PJ really is so funny; she tries to come off as a sophisticated woman of the world, but she sounds like a silly child.

          • Quis ut Deus

            I am so sorry:((

            {{hugs}} if you need ‘em, and I’ll ‘et a beh beh’ for you!

          • Ella Warnock

            Lol, thank you, I’ll take them. And don’t forget a nice mango chutney salsa to go with the behbeh!

          • CJ99

            I noticed the same. Her whole view of the world even her profile pic comes from a nonstop stream of disney videos. Part of the reason I picked my pic (yeah meant to do that!) that my point is theres more to life than Disneyland.

          • CJ99

            As I told “marcus” directly he’s nothing more than a 3rd rate gamer troll. I dunno if anyone else here has looked up any video game related blogs or forums (with open comments) but the over the top hysterical BS is nearly identical. You could substitute the words “prolife” or “prochoice” with “playstation” or “Xbox” and the commentary would indeed be identical.

          • Quis ut Deus

            LoL

  • Quis ut Deus

    There is an article on Rawstory about how Cardinal Dolan has just said that the RCC opposes the ACA because the ACA doesn’t cover healthcare for the ‘unborn’

    Which is a lie, since more women will now have pre-natal and birth coverage than ever before…

    However, what he really means is that contraception is not health care, because it prevents life from existing!!

    And seriously, in the past week I have read comments from multiple asshats claiming that birth control is anti-health because life doesn’t get a chance to grow!!

    Stupid stupid stupid.

    • CJ99

      That’s what the whole situation reminds me of. that most ancient of B movies “Plan 9 from outer space” and the story makes as much sense too ;P

      • Quis ut Deus

        Did you see the first comment on that Lan article about the anencephalic baby..

        “”blair miller

        day ago

        People keep saying that if
        your child is diagnosed with a life threaten condition or illness that
        shortens their life . That’s a good reason to abort, but in reality
        thats a good reason not to abort. If your child diagnosed with
        something, why make their life shoter?You should tried to make their
        life as long , and happy as possible.I solute this couple, who didn’t
        kill their son. A brief life is still a life worth having.”"”

        ———–

        an anencephalic baby cannot *experience* life or be *happy* because it is permanently *unconscious*

        oh, and if your child is diagnosed with something *painful* that will cause *suffering* why torture them???

        I am not going to go over there, but I think it would be great to ask them if the anencephailc baby should be kept on life support for 30 years so it can truly experience a long life:P

        • Jennifer Starr

          Not to mention the emotional trauma of carrying a baby to term, knowing that the baby is going to die during birth or shortly after–having people ask you when the baby is due, watching other moms to be decorating their nurseries and planning for their child’s future when you know your child won’t have one. Honestly, that kind of pain is something that I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy.

        • Jennifer Starr

          There was actually a case in the late ’80s and early ’90s where a mother who gave birth to an anencephalic baby and tried to force the hospitals to keep him on a ventilator/ life support so he could stay ‘alive’ as long as possible.

          • Quis ut Deus

            “To clarify my views on anencephaly and abortion, as far as the baby’s
            capacity to feel pain is concerned, I don’t think that a person has to
            be able to feel pain in order for something to be torture. I would
            imagine that the government would still consider dismemberment to be
            torture, even if the person being dismembered was under heavy
            anesthesia. In my opinion, it’s the action that makes something like
            abortion torture, not whether or not the baby can feel pain.”

            ——————

            These idiots…

            They can’t seem to understand that the person under anesthesia is a person with the capacity for sentience…

            An anencephalic fetus has NONE of that

            and furthermore, they completely erase the woman, as usual!

          • CJ99

            I agree that a person doesn’t require conciousness to be tortured but you put it better than I could.

          • CJ99

            wow that’s sum serious denial right there. Even in such a case where the child could never be concious it fits the definition of a fate worse than death.

  • grantal

    I was raised in the Catholic religion until I was 18 and left the church. Why? because of everything you stated in this article about how women are treated as not quite the same class of humans as men. I felt it damaged me for life. I have been trying to get the brainwashing out of my system but it is very hard to do. While this Pope is probably one of the best the church has had as far as communicating he just does not get it. Many men just don’t get it.
    Abortion was never really condemned in the Bible so why the huge issue of abortion? It is just another way to control women. If God had wanted women to be deaf mutes he would have made us that way. He would not have given us all the same wants, needs and desires as our male counterparts. If women were not a human species the same as men we would not be able to breed and produce offspring. I mean its simple biology.
    I was so sick of men running everything unfairly that I left religion, all religions because the only religion I could find that was headed by women was Dianica Wiccan and I realized that was just another cult as all religions are. I remain religion and cult free but still love Jesus and live for Jesus NOT men. I am much happier today but still the beaten in shame of womanhood continues in my life as a monkey on my back. May all the unfair controlling men be reborn as pregnant male seahorses.

    • Quis ut Deus

      I am so sick of all the christian men who keep insisting that Christianity was the best thing that ever happened to women. That before the RCC women had no rights! Which is a complete lie because women had more rights under the pagan roman empire ..

      • Arachne646

        No, they did not. They were the property of the head of the family, who was the senior man. There were occasional independent women in Rome, but in the early Jesus movement, before it became the official religion of Rome when Emperor Constantine converted, women were equal to men, and were leaders of churches. Militarism and sexism took over Christianity when it became the religion of the Roman Empire, though, rather than the other way around.

        • Quis ut Deus

          Yeah, Jesus favoured equality, but that didn’t last for long.

          http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com/gaf_women.htm

          “In line with these statements women were until recent times not
          permitted to speak in church, and they are still expected to cover their heads in traditional churches. Under Christian emperors and bishops the rights that women had enjoyed under the Roman Empire were gradually pared away. As early as the fourth century
          it was decreed by a synod that women should neither send nor
          receive letters in their own name (Synod of Elvira, canon 81 ). They were also confined to minor Orders and forbidden to sing in church. Later they would be deprived of Holy Orders altogether. By 581 a Church Council at Mâcon was debating whether or not women had souls”

          • CJ99

            Thats what made me realize religion does NOT speak for god. Any claim that women have no souls is just to absurd to be taken seriously. I tend to think women on average are more well balanced than men.

      • CJ99

        I grew up in every flavour of protestantism one can think of and found alarmingly few in those churches that are any different than the flavour of catholocism found in this article, also found many far worse. There were even a few cases where some of the targets of bigotry weren’t women either as strange as that sounds.

    • IslaClare

      Have you tried Quakerism? Its been gender equal since the 17th Century? I moved there for all your reasons and it’s wonderful

      • Jennifer Starr

        I’ve actually considered Quakerism–at the moment I’m nothing in particular.

  • Sarah

    Your entire article excluded mention of the powerful voices of the Catholic nuns. Their sisterhood is a valid sign of feminist strength… Indeed, they were the first feminists that framed my social justice view of the world during my undergraduate years at Ursuline College. You missed the boat here.

  • JamieHaman

    Thank you Ms. Stan for writing this.I had great hopes of this pope, with some of his early comments. This was not something I had seen or read.
    While I agree this may be a “kinder, gentler pope”, this document makes clear there is still an iron hand, now it is in a velvet glove.

  • youngexecutive

    And how many men head the feminist churches? None. Catholics treat women better than feminists treat men.

    • marshmallow

      citation needed

      • youngexecutive

        A cop can give you one of those, but what you really need is a brain.

        • marshmallow

          still waiting for that citation, pumpkin

          • youngexecutive

            Still waiting for that brain, marshmallow

          • marshmallow

            So you are just making shit up? And cannot actually prove your claims?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Yep, he’s just making shit up.

          • marshmallow

            Thanks for backing me up vs. acyu.

            He is so obsessed with ‘politeness’, yet he can’t see how he was basically treating us the way I treated him in my dildo post, only in tl;dr form.

            If it made him uncomfortable it was supposed to. Of course, he can’t see the irony. They never can. And they use ‘civility’ as an excuse to direct the conversation. They always do. That way they can easily withdraw if too many inconvenient questions are asked.

          • youngexecutive

            “They”????

            Bigot!

          • marshmallow

            Less typing more sucking.

          • youngexecutive

            Citation?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Yours first, Charlie.

          • youngexecutive

            water is wet…just thought you should know.

          • CJ99

            And you’re still the irrelevant fool. Don’t let the door smack your butt on the way out.

            buh bye.

          • youngexecutive

            And you’re still creepy…
            Douchenozzle and butt smacking. SMH.

        • CJ99

          You first douchenozzle ;P

          • youngexecutive

            I betcha you could really use a douchenozzle.

          • marshmallow

            You’ve got one jammed down your throat. Perhaps that’s why you are incapable of one coherent thought.

          • youngexecutive

            citation needed

          • CJ99

            You’d really get off on that if you had a clue what it was.

          • youngexecutive

            Such wit!

  • http://huisjenphilosophy.wordpress.com/ David Huisjen

    Having read through the exhortation in question rather thoroughly, I still missed where there would be any reference to the LGBTQ community, positive or negative. The argument against female priesthood, on the other hand, seems to be based more on some obscure idea of the Eucharist having a certain erotic imagery inherent to it that would get confused if women were to deliver it. Beyond that, yes, he seems to stereotype women (primarily positively) according to his experiences with his own Italian mother.
    To me though (as a white Protestant American expatriate man, to get that all out there) the significance of the document is first of all, as you said, in discrediting those who would try to base their rejection of ACA, SNAP, etc. on their Catholicism. Secondly, it theologically reverses the implications of John Paul II’s “Veritatis Splendor”, which asserts that prohibitions against things like birth control are more absolute than positive exhortations to do “loving” things like feeding the hungry. Francis makes it clear that he considers the leftovers of Reaganomics to be inherently sinful, calling their supporters’ salvation into question far more than any sexual practices as such. That’s not enough to make me seriously consider converting, but it is enough to earn a bit of moral respect from me.

  • Ella Warnock

    Heh, are you messin’ with me, Alex?

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