Stoking Fire: Meet the Men Behind ‘Six Reasons to Not Send Your Daughter to College’


Late last summer, two ultra-conservative Louisiana Catholics, Raylan Alleman and William Gil, got their 15 minutes of fame when they published a blog post entitled “Six Reasons to Not Send Your Daughter to College.” The essay charged that, among other things, institutions of higher education foster experimentation and openness to both new ideas and new behaviors, many of them “sinful.” Worse, they argued, college denigrates the most important female role—that of wife and mother.

The rant put both Alleman and Gil on the map and introduced to the world their three-year-old organization, Citadel Catholic Media, and a Citadel-produced video series called Fix the Family. Forty-five-year-old Alleman, a certified public accountant, is the face of Fix the Family; Gil, a realtor, building inspector, and videographer, serves as cameraman and editor. Together, they have 16 children and champion a male supremacist worldview that finds support in a literal reading of scripture. First there is Timothy 2:11-12: “Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.” Then there is Ephesians 5:22: “Wives, be submissive to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife as Christ is the head of the Church.”

While many conservative religious groups use these words to reinforce their belief systems, Alleman’s lectures are particularly impassioned. Fix the Family’s women’s auxiliary, Citabelles, is a showcase for Alleman’s wife, Missy. Not surprisingly, she echoes her spouse in asserting the need for female obedience and deference.

Their own words speak volumes. My request for a telephone interview with the Allemans was declined (“We have a lot of projects in the works, and I don’t feel compelled to commit the time to this that it would require,” Raylan Alleman wrote in an email. “I pray that you will continue watching us so that you will have a change of heart toward the philosophies you support.”), but here are a few examples illustrating the ideology they promote from his Fix the Family videos:

The family is strengthened under the headship of the father. He is to be revered by all in the home. … When the father takes care of his job as head of the home, the mother is free to love without worry or concern. When the husband and wife are each following their God-given roles, the children observe good masculine and feminine role models, each equal in dignity yet different in rank and responsibility.

He then goes on to explain that:

God places the wife with her husband as a help-meet, to support him, encourage him in his responsibilities, and be his cheerleader, his biggest fan. She has the ability to build her husband up to be a great servant of God and society. She must not show disrespect or undermine his authority with sarcasm or criticism, nagging or complaining. She must not manipulate him by withholding intimacy. These evil acts will only serve to discourage him and destroy his confidence.

Alleman is fervently anti-abortion and anti-contraception and rails against pornography, divorce, metrosexuality, homosexuality, and anything to the left of absolute monogamy. His point is hammered relentlessly: Patriarchy, a.k.a. macho manhood, is missing from today’s families and needs to make a comeback. Likewise, he harkens back to the days before 1962’s Vatican II liberalization and attends a thrice-weekly Tridentine Latin mass that replicates the liturgy used in the late 1500s. His Facebook page notes his inspirations: Pope Benedict XVI, Pope John Paul II, and St. Joseph. Other “likes” include running, basketball, Newt Gingrich, Mel Gibson, Ronald Reagan, and a group called Conservatives Against Sarah Palin, a woman considered uppity, sexually provocative, and anti-family.

For her part, Missy’s Citabelles video blog smilingly—some might say Stepford Wife chillingly—underscores her husband’s message:

Sometimes I get out of line and say things that I should not. It’s like Satan stirring up some pet peeve to irritate me. Sometimes it’s hard to hear the truth. It takes a great deal of humility to look at my husband and thank him for putting things in perspective and showing me how I have gotten out of line.

Dressing stylishly while simultaneously remaining modest poses a constant challenge, Missy adds:

My husband is very attentive to my clothing and also our daughters’. He will comment when something looks pretty or if he feels it is not appropriate. When women are shopping and find just the right color and size, we are excited and do not always see things as a man does. We have returned items and even lost money because we were not attentive enough to think about all of that.

Missy further explains that her goals are always two-fold. Although she does not want to look “frumpy,” she also does not want to appear overtly sexual. “We do not want to be caught up in fashion and cause someone to sin,” she explains.

Ah yes, woman as temptress and man as out-of-control, lustful horn dog.

These notions have been promoted by evangelical Christians and secular right-wingers since time immemorial. According to attorney Frank Cocozzelli, author of numerous articles on Catholic conservatism for the Public Eye, a newsletter of the watchdog group Political Research Associates, “Catholic conservatives want a world where things are certain and roles are clear. They fear doubt.“ He calls the agenda of the Allemans and Fix the Family “pay, pray, and obey Catholics,” and sees their efforts as rooted in nostalgia. “Alleman and Gil want to go back to the past, to live in a church that no longer exists and that is not going to come back,” he told RH Reality Check. “They are operating out of a sense of panic about gender roles and family formations and want a traditional church that looks down on women.”

A lot of their ideas, adds Frederick Clarkson, author of Eternal Hostility: The Struggle Between Theocracy and Democracy and a co-founder of the Talk to Action blog, “come directly from the conservative homeschooling movement headquartered in Front Royal, Virginia. If you believe that the church should rule the world, not using contraception and having lots of children aids the cause. You then homeschool these children to protect them from the culture.” Citadel Catholic Media, he continues, has positioned itself to promote Catholic conservatism online—to parents like themselves who are homeschooling their children and to other like-minded souls—since, as they see it, “the more messengers the better.”

Clarkson also notes that many of Alleman and Gil’s ideas mirror those of the Quiverfull movement and signify what he calls “the cross-fertilization of ideas between conservative evangelicals and Catholics,” groups that once operated with little overlap. Their common agenda—denouncing the ascendance of women and LGBTQ individuals in politics, religious communities, and public life—has given them reason to set aside differences and work in tandem.

Nonetheless, Clarkson and Cocozzelli remind us that despite cooperative ventures, these groups will likely face an uphill struggle since even Pope Francis has argued in favor of expanding women’s roles within and outside of the church. Indeed, the pontiff has gone so far as to consider appointing women to the all-male College of Cardinals, something that Alleman and Gil will certainly vigorously oppose.

Like this story? Your $10 tax-deductible contribution helps support our research, reporting, and analysis.

To schedule an interview with contact director of communications Rachel Perrone at rachel@rhrealitycheck.org.

  • fiona64

    She has the ability to build her husband up to be a great servant of
    God and society. She must not show disrespect or undermine his authority
    with sarcasm or criticism, nagging or complaining.

    How absolutely Calvinist of him. Perhaps he will start a sideline selling such helpful accessories as chastity belts and scold’s bridles along with his books, etc.

    Feh.

    • expect_resistance

      I’m actually surprised they haven’t started a sideline of selling this stuff. Gross.

    • CJ99

      y’now up till the 1800’s mail order catalogues still carried those & other similar items. One especailly painful “device” was a ring with inward pointing spikes went on a guys unit to allegedly prevent “nocturnal emissions”

    • appleblossom

      It is a contradiction though-in order to build someone up you might have to occasionally point out how stupid they are being. Which means that yes, a wife will need to point out to her husband he is drinking a little too much sacramental wine every night of the week.

      *sigh*

  • expect_resistance

    WTF! Alleman and Gil are two demented men that no one should listen to. I wonder if they know what year it is?

    Yet another reason not to be Catholic.

    • CJ99

      Puts me in mind of that weird al song “amish paradise” which apparantly those 2 bigots think is a how to manual instead of satire: “when I finish my chores and thy finish thine then we gonna party like it’s 1699″.

      Honestly those 2 are enough reason to avoid all religion.

    • mainer_d

      There is a reason I walked away from Catholicism – and I didn’t even need my husband’s permission!

  • colleen2

    I’m pretty sure the USCCB isn’t going to condemn them. They speak for a church that treats women like garbage.

  • Ella Warnock

    Oh, I think there’s really just ONE reason: Vagina.

  • CJ99

    The real reason those 2 bigots don’t want women in college is an educated woman (or even a man) would realize those to fanatics are truly batshit stupid. Too bad their so blissfully ignorant that much of the bible that they quote so loudly is not of god in any way. Humanity was not created to be enslaved by fanatical lunatics.

    • colleen2

      They fear educated women for precisely the same reasons the Taliban does.

      • buricco

        They’re not very different from the Taliban, after all.

        • CJ99

          Imagine a world without them, in essence such craziness is talibanished from those who just want to live life fully.

    • Kim

      BRAVO, CJ99

      • CJ99

        Thanks for saying Kim (& every1 who thinks the same). I’m just trying to imagine a life without conformist jerkbags trying to dictate how the rest of us live, think, feel. A place without fanaticism or violence caused by whatever flavour of insanity. No idea where to find such a place but I wanna go so very badly.

  • CJ99

    Oh yeah before I forget, notice the background in that picture? the part showing jesus as a rich white male. considering where he lived in the world he most certainly NOT look like that. If anything he would’ve looked more like Morgan Freeman in “Bruce Almighty”.

    • outrageous

      Or like an Egyptian or Palestinian.

      • CJ99

        Exactamundo. Thats the part of the world he lived in and the environment would not be kind to a northern eurpean. Nor would a person from that area likely be in the middle east during that time period.

  • colek3

    To support their view on the role of women in society requires that you suspend the belief that females are actual thinking, feeling, autonomous human beings and not an endless supply of slaves put here to serve men. The fact that women now have a voice and are talking to each other scares the hell out of them as they see that as a threat to their “god given” right to rule everything and everyone around them.

    • colleen2

      We’ve had at least one Catholic man complain and berate us for not being like their mothers and/or wives in his posts. UNBELIEVABLE arrogance and profound disrespect. In discussions about rape, the religious right in general have a difficult time granting women the power of consent and some of them beg for laws that allow children the power of consent. They raise sons who look for loopholes in the rape laws and believe that rape is normal behavior for ‘boys and about as serious as a speeding ticket or toilet papering a house on Halloween. They would refuse an abortion to an 8 year old or a dying woman to save her life and try to make it illegal to offer a rape victim emergency contraception. And THEN they insist that their values, their religion, their beliefs prevail by ignoring the fact that women have a constitutional right to freedom of religion and even a religion as debased as Christianity has been by these assholes, even Christianity grants women freedom of conscience.
      These two are good examples of a pervasive attitude amongst the religious right, the Republican party and, of course, the Roman Catholic Church but the thing that REALLY bothers me is that John Roberts, Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, Antonin Scalia and usually ‘Justice’ Kennedy seem to agree with them. That’s what keeps me awake at night

    • CJ99

      Very true and exactly proves why the theocracy they so desparately crave is really a totalitarian dictatorship of the worst kind.

  • whatareuthinking

    I wanna vomit after reading their quotes.

  • Snertly

    If you let a woman get educated, she start trying to think, and one day she’ll probably be disagreeing with you in public or in front of your friends. Why let that happen when you can just nip it in the bud instead?

  • CJ99

    Checked out a couple of those briefly. Insidiously revolting garbage. Assessment of that loon in the video is right: he does bear a deep hatred of women.

  • JamieHaman

    How convenient it works so well for men. He gets a cheerleader, for HE must feel good!
    Women can suffer and die due to pregnancy and childbirth.
    That’s OK, he can get a new cheerleader!
    Bah

    • CJ99

      I’d be more happy with someone I could trust & be myself with than some plastic barbie cheerleader.

  • JamieHaman

    How did you get through the whole thing? My stomach is churning in the first 5 minutes.

  • FoxValleySpirit

    It’s all about wiener shrinkage. When a women outshine some men, those men feel their weenies inverting back up into their nether regions. These particular insecure individuals only feel powerful when the women in their lives treat them like potentates. Sadly, if these people had their way, half of the world’s brainpower would be suppressed and ignored, leaving the apes in charge of the zoo.

    • CJ99

      Margaret Atwood wrote 1 of the most telling example of where extremist ideology is going in her book “the handmaids tale” a cautionary tale the religious wrong took as a how too manual to this day. Worth a read, or if your short on time there was a movie made, came out late 89 early 90. Not sure where to find it on dvd / blu-ray but hopefully it’s available somewhere.

    • fiona64

      Absolutely — especially in very conservative religions (e.g., LDS) where men are “exalted” and women are to be “helpmeets.” Men in these very conservative religions get very irate when a woman shows them up.

  • mainer_d

    These archaic beliefs have me made me physically ill. Do these people know what century they are currently living in? You can’t force us to go back in time with women’s rights, thankfully.

    Wait. Maybe I better ask my husband’s permission before I post that. *gags*

    • CJ99

      Indeed they don’t have a clue of what time, or I suspect even what planet their on. I used to joke about the world we live in being more like hell. But now when I say it I’m no longer joking.

  • annoying you

    from what i’ve seen on the net, bdsm is more fun.

    • CJ99

      That reminds me. Those Saints Row games poked fun at a lot of things in a very irreverant way (some might say shocking ways). However did they miss poking fun at the fundamentalist zealots? If ever a group needed the smack laid down by some “puckish rogues”.

  • expect_resistance

    Thanks for posting the link. I needed a good laugh this morning. The photos are hysterical and I couldn’t stop laughing when I saw the title “Man Room.” This guy has some serious problems. Wow, blown away.

  • Jennifer Starr

    The entirety? Of course not. A steadily growing faction? Definitely yes. Just look at the teabirchers–aka the American Taliban. I don’t think it’s hyperbolic in the least to note that he GOP has moved very far to the right and continues to do so.

  • CJ99

    The only 1 needing a pill here is you “ellzee” since you claim these 2 barbarians don’t exist or somehow didn’t say what they did. Indeed they do speak for the religious wrong as there’s so many others who mirror their abusive vitriol. Fact is your little tirade is more reminiscent of Ernst Zundel.

  • CJ99

    Again you have no right to lecture anyone on history since your so woefully ignorant of reality. Jesus was not a *rich white kid* that these 2 loonies, whom you defend, are making out. You do not get to dictate to anyone what is history when you refuse to acknowledge what is real either past or present.

  • Ella Warnock

    The “average” voice, certainly.

  • Ella Warnock

    Hey Elzee, did you go get yourself “medically literate” yet? Chop-chop, time’s a wastin’!

    http://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/repair-of-the-rectum-rectocele-or-small-bowel-enterocele

    http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/enterocele/DS00765

  • painkills2

    If this couple’s dialogue doesn’t describe a dysfunctional, probably abusive, relationship, I don’t know what does. Hey, lady, run away from that loser as fast as you can!

    • CJ99

      Yeah those fanatics wild claims do nothing other than to trap women in abusive relationships. fact is in their deluded minds if a woman was abused by her husband they’d be very quick to blame her not her abuser.

      • painkills2

        Everything is always just the woman’s fault, pregnancy, poverty, single motherhood, increased well-fair and Medicaid, rape culture… man, you’d think that men had nuthin’ to do with nuthin’!

        • CJ99

          Some men don’t want responsibility, its so common its long become a stereotype. However not all are like this, I’m a guy and I’m not. If I was married I’d never act like that.

          • painkills2

            I’m more talking about how the religious right attacks issues, always blaming the woman somehow for all of society’s problems. However, I sure don’t believe that, and I hope most men don’t believe that (even if they inhabit the right-wing).

            It’s hard to figure out each gender’s responsibilities in these times, but (most) women just want to be treated as equals, which is really not that hard to do. It’s easy for me to believe that you wouldn’t act like the husband in this article, and I’m glad that you see that it is not a good thing.

          • CJ99

            scarey thing is most of them do believe their own lies. Of those I’ve met in my own life I’ve seen them do all sorts of outrageous mental gymnastics to justify their bizarre beliefs. 1 I heard just this year was rambling on how “hollywood is trying to destroy god by making theatres into churches & actors into gods”. but more on topic about a month ago I was at a relatives wedding, she much younger than me bought into the mysoginistic crap completely. Even in her & her now husbands self written vows they included all the right wing cult catchphrases like “1 man 1 woman: homosexuality is offense to god”, “the wife must always submit to the husband as master” (that was her saying it too) among others. It couldn’t have been more absurd if they’d writtin it as an SNL segment but if they had it might’ve been funny.

          • painkills2

            I understand how important family is and the need and responsibility to attend family functions, but I guess I would choose not to attend a wedding like you describe. I don’t think it is okay to be so publicly prejudiced and even though I am not gay, I just won’t put up with this kind of crap. I refuse to be around or listen to people who are, how shall I say… ignorant. I mean, it’s not like I’m going to live forever, and I just don’t see the point in wasting my time with people who can’t think for themselves. Of course, I’m a lot older than you, so perhaps it would be better for progressive young people to hang around these people living in the 1950s and bring them into the future. :-)

            (Ever since I cut cable TV, SNL is one of the shows I miss the most. I just don’t have the juice to watch a lot of videos from my laptop, plus it’s damn expensive. And you can’t rent SNL episodes on Netflix or anything like that, so if you know of a place on the net where I can find actual “episodes” of SNL for free, let me know, kay?)

          • CJ99

            You’re right on that part, especially since I should of known. The so called husband studied math in university, the “bride” studied medival music history though most of her courses where arabic language studies as both of them got heavily involved in that “power to change” cult (used to be campus crusade for christ) and are spending all their time prosyltizing to muslim people. The newly minted husband even stated during the wedding ceremony her “most attractive quality” was her “forcing muslims to convert to christianity”. Not only sexism but the racism was also utterly revolting. I saw at least 1 person get up & leave in the middle out of disgust, could’ve been more I didn’t see (was halfway back in the crowd). Now I look back on it I only saw 2 non-white people between the wedding itself & the reception despite it being held in a church where caucasians are not the rule, the whole neighbourhood itself is very multi-cultural. Though over the same time period I’ve been gradually cutting those elements out of my life completely. Those two who got married will not be monopolizing my time. Despite them both having bachelors degrees they’re incredibly ignorant and virtually unemployable.

            As for the SNL thing, as long as you’ve got a recent tv (digital tuner) you could pick up a a few local channels at least depending on where you live. Isn’t SNL sitll on NBC? Where I live a decent outdoor antenna could pickup either Rochester or Buffalo.

          • painkills2

            Religions love to poach people from other religions, I guess it strengthens their belief in their OWN religion, cuz hey, if a Jewish person could become Mormon, then the Mormons must be god’s chosen. Or whatever.

            I sure would like to think that people like that are unemployable, but you know there are plenty of groups where they would fit in. Religion and religious politics are very big business. Even the atheist movement is getting into the fray, which I think is great. :)

            I guess I need to get a set-top box, I’ve been reading about them. I live in New Mexico (ever heard of it?) in the U.S. and my apartment complex only allows Comcast (sucks!) for cable hook-up, so I’m using my laptop as a TV now. But to watch a lot of videos, the wireless connection is just too slow. If you are in Europe, no doubt you have a lot better service than I do, with much more options. I’m so jealous.

          • CJ99

            Notice: the following comment is off topic, reader discretion is advised. Nuff Said.

            I’m in canada & near enough the border I can pickup some american tv across the great lakes with a good antenna. If you can get an outdoor antenna on the balcony at least you should pickup a few channels with a digital converter (I got hdtv so its already there, if you haven’t tried it HD is kinda cool). It has the other advantage that once the equipment is paid for you never pay again (Bonus!). Btw I have heard of New Mexico, probably hotter than I’m used to in summer but sounds like a good place. Famous even if you don’t include that really weird thing in 1947.

          • painkills2

            I didn’t realize when I choose an apartment without a balcony that I would be foregoing a choice for satellite cable (and of course, now a stronger antenna). I guess you wouldn’t remember when TV was free; I didn’t get cable until we all switched to digital. Looks like I didn’t miss out on much (after all, I love PBS). I had to get an hdtv then too, so I’ve got a digital tuner.

            Yeah, New Mexico is not known for much except Roswell. But, hey, it’s a pretty good thing to be known for! I thought that movie Paul was hilarious, and I usually don’t get British comedy. I just moved here but where I’m from, it’s a LOT hotter, so I guess it’s all in your perspective. I’ve thought about moving to Canada, ya’ll seem so tame and rational compared to the States, but ya’ll are also known for tar sands and the Keystone Pipeline. Yikes!

          • CJ99

            Well yeah Canada isn’t perfect, our current PM is no prize, and a handful of senators are embroiled in an illicit spending scandal (2 being former political correspondents for big tv networks here). As for the TV situation, an indoor antenna might work or 1 of those 4 or 8 bay uhf antennas marketed as “hdtv antenna” might be mountable in a window or a set top antenna in / near the window. Height above ground & direction also make a difference. generally if you can get something with some height & facing direction of the transmit tower(s) you should be able to do a bit better.

          • painkills2

            I live pretty close to the mountains, do you think this will effect an indoor antenna? Didn’t mean to hate on Canada, the U.S. is worse for sure, but that scandal sounds pretty dang juicy…

          • CJ99

            mountains (or any terrain like tall buildings) would only affect reception if they’re between you & the transmitter, of course range is another big factor, and despite what you might’ve heard weather also affects reception.

          • painkills2

            I’ve noticed that everyone allowed to have a satellite dish has it pointing away from the mountain, and no one on my side of the mountain has a satellite dish. (shrug) So far the weather hasn’t affected my wireless reception, but that’s different than the reception from an antenna, so again… (shrug) I guess I don’t care enough about watching TV to hook it up. Just miss full episodes of my favorites, but I can get snippets from youtube, etc.

          • CJ99

            Note: off topic again just answering painkills2 question.

            wifi reception is usually fairly close range so even with the low power levels used weather isn’t a big deal. However with tv & radio its usually much longer range so weather can be a bigger factor. as for sat dishes, those are in geosync orbit (stationary in the sky well over 20000 miles up so anything on the ground isn’t a problem unless your right under it) geosync orbits being over the equator as you probably know. terrestrial tv (including the newer digital standard) is more affected by terrain since both are on the ground, anything inbetween reciever & transmitter can cause loss of signal. Thats why I suggest outdoor antenna or if that’s not possible then at a window. checkout http://www.antennaweb.org (I think that’s it) if you enter your location there you should get a decent idea of what’s available where you live for broadcast tv (not satellite just normal digital tv with antenna). As for streaming on your computer, using ethernet cable when possible is better since highest speeds are better & less overhead from security protocols (essentially anyone would hafta be insde your place to snoop on an ethernet cable).

          • painkills2

            Thanks so much for the info, I can’t tell you how much reading I’ve done on this subject and still can’t visualize how it all works in my head. I’ll try the link. As for digital streaming, I’ve learned the hard way that wireless just doesn’t cut it. I’m stuck with this Verizon plan for two years, and it sucks big time. Comcast is supposed to have basic cable in our area next year, one can hope, I guess. I use to have AT&T Uverse, and I liked it, but it was expensive. Just looking for a basic cable hook-up at this point, then I can eventually disconnect from Verizon, right? I can then add an internet connection plan to my basic cable. Then I can hook my laptop to my TV, right? I think it’s too early in the morning for me to figure this out.

          • CJ99

            wireless usually refers to wifi through a normal isp using a wifi router (some isp’s have them available but usually not as good as a router you buy on your own). Those cell phone based 3g / 4g adaptors made for notebooks are notoriously crap. A neighbour got conned into 1 a few years ago by Bell. The speeds are bad (as you’ve found out) & more often than not at least in north america the montly data caps can be infuriating. I don’t even use one on my netbook and don’t need to with number of places now having open wifi at least in public places. Even mcdonalds & tim hortons normally has wifi to its customers up here.

          • painkills2

            Yeah, I’m not out and about that much, so free public wifi doesn’t really help me (plus no security). Recommendation for a router? Comcast makes you rent one (yeah, right).

          • CJ99

            off topic again, answering a question.

            the cable company I’m on (cogeco) uses a standard cable modem (RCA DCM425) some computer stores sell them up here, not sure bout where you live. I use a Linksys E3000 which is pretty good (4 gigabit speed ports so fast) and supports things like streaming fairly well. that perticular model has been replaced but theres still similar 1’s from linksys, had problems with D-link so I treat those as highly dubious. But the linksys routers have comparison charts for the own models on the box, they’re not cheap though the better models can easly by $150 (but some are less than that also)

          • painkills2

            You will be happy to know that your opinion confirms what my reading on the subject has found (for the Linksys and D-link). RCA is a name I haven’t heard in awhile, I’ll check into it. Would $150 be a high-end model, and if I invest in same, will it last for awhile (through upgrades and… whatever)?

          • CJ99

            yes that price range will get you a good router and have some optimizations for audio & video streaming, Look for something that supports gigabit ethernet (the current fastest commonly available) and cat 5e / 6 / 6e cables (these support gigabit speeds) so you can get the most use of it for a longer time. even if your current system(s) dont support gigabit you might in future. also look at more than one place to purchase from and several reviews as not all are always accurate.

          • painkills2

            It’s nice to have an engineer in the family. Gracias, amigo.

          • CJ99

            one more note: for them being unemployable what struck my mind is mainly that they went to university for a publicly stated reason, supposedly a benecial education, but instead abandoned that quickly for their cult activities. It’s a failure of the university when they started switching to religious studies & arabic language which are totally unrelated to their majors and yet they were still allowed to graduate. The community college I went to was very different. I took Electronics engineering and it had a lot of required courses that if I did not take and pass successfully I wouldn’t have graduated which I in fact did with a bit extra even when it wasn’t so easy and working at the same time.

          • painkills2

            I didn’t have the opportunity to attend college, but I thought that people changed majors all the time. And it must have been hard to work and go to school, especially since back in the day, you could actually make enough money to only work a part-time job while going to school — didn’t know you could still do that. I hope you had some help and support.

          • CJ99

            The problem with the 2 I mentioned is they never changed majors, 1 graduated with some math related degree (which he never really specified exactly what) with only 1 or 2 math related courses that I’m aware of. the other having taken music history and only 2 or 3 early music courses in the 1st year. They completely ignored the prerequisites for their stated programs yet still graduated. It’s akin to a high school student graduating with the inability to read or do basic 4 function math that any 6th grader should be able to do. medival music history is a really narrow area of expertise to begin with even if a person has the related knowledge but when that’s replaced with a lot of religious dogma, that just doesn’t make for a useful education in any real way. Essentially they’re both now taking handouts from churches & their members to prosylitize on university campuses & a yearly “missions trips” to various countries, usual sub saharan africa or mideast (last was saudi arabia where preaching anything other than islam is very illegal).

          • painkills2

            So, they cheated the system. Well isn’t that special. (sarcasm) What would one do with a medieval music history degree anyway? Back in the day, universities had such good reputations, now they are as corrupted as everything else.

            I’ve read some about religious history, and it seems Catholics were the initial “missionaries.” Helping people only if they comported with their beliefs. I saw this documentary about how Catholic “hospitals” used to punish single mothers and take away their children, not just in the U.S. but everywhere. Along with the pedophilia, it’s a wonder that religion has any credibility whatsoever.

            Mormons love missionary work too. But lesser known religions don’t have the money to do stuff like that. Makes you wonder if these religions are mostly for rich people, else how could they fund these types of things?

            Evangelicals have poisoned Africa with their anti-gay message, and I don’t see that as missionary work at all. Spreading hate and bigotry is considered terroristic when it’s done by Muslims, so where’s the outrage?

          • CJ99

            Another person I met in college went back after having a degree in
            medival french literature which he openly stated wasn’t useful in any
            kind of a job. but this relative took it much further, not only
            getting into a field that’s irrellevant in modern society but actively
            abandoned course of study to take up religious extremism. What both of them (the newly married couple) don’t to admit is what they do often
            illegal in the places they do it, its also very unethical. But when
            I’ve talked to them I can see in their whole manner (both of them) their
            smug hubris they just don’t care the effects they have on others. I’ve
            even heard them telling outrageous stories, one of them the wife saying
            she’d visited an abortion clinic in tanzania and watching abortions
            take place with the “babies born alive” then killed by having pots of
            boiling water poured over them. Revolting stuff and so obviously untrue
            for a 1st trimester abortion.

          • painkills2

            That smug hubris is a common trait among the religious, as if they know something we don’t. And it really doesn’t matter what lies and tales they want to spread, people who believe that crap deserve to be lied to.

            As far as medieval studies, it would seem to me that we have all the information we need in that area, so it’s not like anyone would discover something new, although I wouldn’t entirely discount that. I’m going to guess that as much as I love some subjects, other people have their own passions, so I guess I can’t judge either way. All knowledge is good, but not all of it is useful. (I sure sound wise, don’t I? It’s a front.)

  • Anon rust

    I wouldn’t be at all surprised to discover these men frequent BDSM clubs.

    • maiathebeegrrl

      I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the majority of the BDSM community found the idea of being connected to these jack***ses repulsive. Let’s keep in mind people that kink does NOT = abuse

      • CJ99

        Still suspect alleman & gill have a safeword, probably the same safeword.

  • CJ99

    Does Dr. Who know about this?

  • Erin W

    It’s so telling that one of their “lies” is “All men are dangerous, and can’t be trusted,” which is not something any rational-thinking common-sense feminist would actually be saying. That’s the definition of a straw man argument right there. (Note: I did not actually watch any of the videos because I had a trying enough day already and don’t need the extra aggravation.)

    • CJ99

      Your not missing much Erin, I went back & watched a couple of them. Barfworthy stuff. I had to take a shower after it made me feel so dirty.

  • fiona64

    You haven’t met too many people from the Middle East, have you?

    • CJ99

      Ellzee has yet to meet any.

  • Jeffery A. Thompson

    I think it is cruel to deny another human being the right to think for themselves. This is nothing more than slavery.

    • CJ99

      That’s exactly how I think of it!

  • colleen2

    Nobody with any intelligence or concern for our country believes that Scalia, Kennedy, Alito, Roberts and Thomas are “tiny molehills”. I would have to be as stupid as a Republican woman to believe that.

  • CJ99

    they should share the same fate as the taliban, that being talibanished. its seriously disgusting. Especially over the past decades when thousands of soldiers have served their duties in the mideast attempting to stop the taliban only to come home where we’re doing the very same to ourselves.

  • CJ99

    yes indeed and something that’s not brought up often is many families need 2 incomes so they can survive, even then it can be hard having much quality of life when a decent livable income is so hard to come by.