• fiona64

    This is ridiculous. Presenting risks, benefits and alternatives (as this physician did) is the standard of care for all responsible providers.

    • HeilMary1

      This is infuriating, especially considering that Catholic hospitals, etc. also won’t allow such unhealthy women abortion-avoiding sterilizations and effective contraception! The criminal hoax of NFP is what forced the notorious Catholic Phoenix mother to need an emergency abortion at St. Joseph’s. An ex-coworker of mine had deadly Marfan Syndrome and was warned pregnancy would kill her. Lucky for her, she wasn’t Catholic and her ob/gyn kept urging her to get sterilized.

      Denying life-saving treatments like sterilization, contraception and abortions is criminal malpractice and Munchausen by Proxy abuse.

    • TheodoreSeeber

      Abortion isn’t an alternative. Abortion is murder, and murder is never a medical alternative. Any doctor who prescribes this should have his license revoked!

      • fiona64

        ::sigh::

        One does grow tired of explaining the same thing repeatedly.

        Murder is the unlawful (illegal) taking of a person’s life with malice aforethought.

        Abortion is a legal medical procedure. That which is legal cannot simultaneously be unlawful.

        Personhood is a legal concept that attaches at *birth.* Feti and embryos are not persons.

        Surely a man of your obvious erudition can see why your “Abortion is murder” canard fails right out the gate?

        Of course, it’s easy to be an anti-choice male. It’s never your life or limb being risked in pregnancy; you can just wave your hand and pronounce what is or is not “an alternative.” Tell me, Theodore; where did you receive your medical training?

        • fiona64

          Reply to Theodore, in moderation:

          So, you aren’t a physician then?

          Yeah, I guess I already knew that.

          Stop trying to practice medicine without a license; you’re just embarrassing yourself. (I also don’t see your point in linking an anti-choice blog, but hey … rock on. Logic is seldom the high point of anti-choice arguments.)

          • Ella Warnock

            Teeeedddddyyy sez: “The reason I consider women to be idiots,”

            That’s all you need to know about him, fiona. All he ever does is man- and condesplain. And he’s fucking brilliant. Just ask him; he’ll tell ya! He’s goddamn SMARTER than a physician, he’ll have you know!

          • TheodoreSeeber

            Well, smarter than a physician who kills half his patients anyway.

          • Ella Warnock

            Hmm, okay. Whatever you say.

          • dildo depot

            Tell me what you think of this argument:

            Why do forced birthers often permit a rape exception? (other than the obvious s1ut-shaming).

            If pregnancy is all fairy farts and unicorns as they claim – and
            also, as HEALTHY as they claim – then why not force the rape victim to do what is ‘healthiest’ for her, and have the baby?

          • Ella Warnock

            Quite frankly, more of them are arguing that a woman shouldn’t be “allowed” (gawd, allowed, what century are we in?) even in cases of rape. The thing they don’t seem to realize is that most women who actually report rape and are treated and have a rape kit done are prescribed Plan B, and most of them take it. No need to wait around a few weeks for a pregnancy test, though it’s a good idea to anyway just to be sure.

            I don’t know what to say to that kind of thing, really. They have a tendency to trivialize rape and, of course, erase the woman – erase the fact that she’s been assaulted and focus, as always, on the fetus. She just doesn’t matter to them, period. She’ll never have a “good enough” reason to not want to birth a rapist’s spawn. The common decency to let a woman take back control of her life is completely missing.

          • Ella Warnock

            Well, wait a minute, not even focus on a fetus; but instead focus on a POSSIBLE fertilization.

          • dildo depot

            I brought it up because I try to get them from all angles;

            1) If they allow a rape exception, this means they don’t consider the fetus to be a person

            2) if they allow a rape exception, then say that pregnancy isn’t dangerous and is in fact healthy and wonderful, then I like to question why the rape exception is needed if pregnancy is so sweeet

            3) if they claim that abortion is murder, then I ask how much jail time a woman should get for having an abortion (rape exception applies re murder)

            4) if they claim that pregnancy is rainbows and unicorns, and that finances and one’s future should not be an issue, I ask them why they have not adopted one of the 100k children in the adoption system OR adopted an IVF Embryo to gestate.

            I can usually maneuver them into a corner with the above.

            Oh, and in regards to ‘potentiality is actuality’ I like this one: if a zygote is a baby, and if live persons are undead corpses, then isn’t food actually shit? Isn’t the water you drink actually pee?

          • dildo depot

            Oh, and one other thing I just noticed.

            They argue that potentiality = actuality in the case of a zygote…

            However, if you bring up that pregnancy has the *potential* to maim and kill the woman they point out that potential to be harmed is not actual harm:P

          • Ella Warnock

            Yep, we’re the ones who are always “redefining” words and concepts, then they pull that kind of shit. Potential means whatever they want it to mean. The more potential threat to a woman, the better.

          • Ella Warnock

            And you don’t ever get a straight answer to any of those questions, do you? I never have.

            They point to European abortion restrictions at 12 to 14 weeks, as if they’d ever agree to that and not continue to agitate for zero weeks; so that’s some major disingenuousnes right there.

          • dildo depot

            *sometimes* I get a straight answer

            I am relentless and eventually *some* of them give in

            If they refuse to answer after repeated attempts I simply drop the bomb and point out that they are refusing to answer because either they are 1) rape apologist monsters or 2) don’t truly believe a fetus is a person and are just in it for the slut-shaming

            It also depends on how you question them.
            If you do it slowly and methodically you can usually tease it out of them…

          • Ella Warnock

            And you are much more patient and persistent than I am! Honestly, it’s the callousness and absence of empathy that just wears me out.

          • dildo depot

            Depends what mood I am in.

            That’s why I sometimes come here and type ‘misogynist dumbfuck’ in response to every post:P

            Can’t be bothered to do anything more lulz

          • Ella Warnock

            I know they’re not anymore likely to change their minds than I am. I’ve moved into the realization that I shouldn’t HAVE to explain bodily autonomy. Seriously. And they’re not going to stop fetus-fetishing, because the idea of “baby” is all bound up in sentiment and emotion for so many people.

          • dildo depot

            It comes comes down to pure narcissism and fear of death.

            They work backwards from their own lives and people they know and they imagine that *actual people* are being cruelly torn apart. They project all of their fears hopes and dreams onto the zygote.

          • Ella Warnock

            Exactly, it’s a cipher – so much easier to deal with than a willful, confident woman with a clear mind and unburdened heart.

          • dildo depot

            I know they’re not anymore likely to change their minds than I am. I’ve
            moved into the realization that I shouldn’t HAVE to explain bodily
            autonom

            I entered into an abortion debate over on Mother Jones, and thoroughly explained the concept of bodily autonomy and the right not to suffer in order to preserve someone else’s life and this is the answer I get:

            ” If I deprive you of your right to live (i.e., I kill you; also known
            throughout history as murder), I will loose my right to liberty (i.e, I
            will be incarcerated against my will). Thus, your right to live comes
            before my right to liberty.”

            He is operating from the assumption that embryos and fetuses are loving bundles of unicorn farts and not dangerous parasites that can maim and kill. And that women were ‘made’ to be mothers. Just like Teddy here.

          • Ella Warnock

            It’s come to my attention that many people really do believe, even now, that having babies is just what women “do.” Well, since the advent of dependable birth control and legal abortion, no, it’s not. In a different time I would have likely had children I didn’t really want. That sounds like a prison to me, because it is.

          • dildo depot

            Ok, dumbfuck answered the question:

            “Would my right to live outweigh your right not to be anally violated
            with pineapple?” — Yes, it would. Why? Because otherwise the cycle of violence continues. My killing you wouldn’t erase the violence I had
            experienced from you, it would simply create more violence (i.e., your
            death).”

            ————-

            I don’t believe for a moment that he’s being honest here. He would just let himself have pineapple shoved violently up his ass because my right to live outweighs his right not to be anally violated with fruit.

          • Ella Warnock

            I don’t either, because that’s a stupid answer.

          • Ella Warnock

            Oh, and it’s always “The menz, omg!!! The menz get NO CHOICE about what happens to their child !!!OMGeleventy111!!

            Really. A man has NO CHOICE but to screw pro-choice women who won’t have his baybeez. His sperm just randomly shoots out of his pants and impregnates the nearest pro-choice women? Well, that explains a lot, I guess. {eye roll} So fucking hypocritical.

          • Ella Warnock

            They have trouble with the concept of “wantedness.” Yes, it matters.

          • dildo depot

            Oh, and tag-teaming usually works.

            That’s why I sometimes beg you guys to come help me elsewhere;P

            If two or more people are asking the same questions and give them no room to maneuver you can usually get somewhere…

          • Ella Warnock

            I admit, you’ve got a good point.

          • Ella Warnock

            I think if you really thought there was actual murder going on, you’d do more than be a keyboard warrior. But “innocent babies” always seems to devolve into “irresponsible sex” and “keep your legs closed.” If it’s about innocent babies then why can’t they stay on the subject of . . . innocent babies. But it’s always about the selfish woman not wanting to be inconvenienced. Inconvenience is, frankly, a highly insulting word at this point.

          • dildo depot

            I think if you really thought there was actual murder going on, you’d do more than be a keyboard warrior

            I have pointed that out to them as well. And they just make excuses such as ‘you can’t speak for pro-lifers you don’t know what’s going on in their heads’ and so on.

          • Ella Warnock

            That’s the problem, I think I do know what’s going on in their heads. It’s disturbing and sad.

          • dildo depot

            Jenn thumbed me up.

            But you didn’t

            IS THAT BECAUSE YOU DON’T WANT TO ENGAGE IN HONEST CONVERSATION WITH ME

            ELLA ELLA ELLA

            stop killin’ babies and talk, wouldya?

          • TheodoreSeeber

            There is no logic in pro-choice arguments either- just empty emotionalism in support of genocidal mania.

          • outrageous

            Jewish people have abortions.

            Are the Jews genocidal maniacs?

          • TheodoreSeeber

            Yes, they can be. The Zealots were famous for it, and in return, Pagan Rome disassembled the Temple and sowed the land with salt.

          • dildo depot

            So if the Jewish people have abortions they are guilty of genocide against the Jews?

            Is that what you are saying?

          • Ella Warnock

            Your histrionics are duly noted. Please drive through.

        • TheodoreSeeber

          Your law is a law of waste of human life, but I already know you’re a genocidal maniac.

          • Jennifer Starr

            And you’re a waste of an awful lot of space, Tedders, but then again, we already knew that.

          • dildo depot

            I wouldn’t fuck Teddy with a strap-on.

            would you?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Not even with a blindfold.

          • outrageous

            How much jail time should fiona do for her beliefs?

            Should she be put on a terrorist watch list?

          • Ella Warnock

            Yes. Histrionics, anti-choicers gotz ‘em.

          • outrageous

            Histrionics – I think that will be my next ‘nym.

            How I miss Joseph O Polanco:( He created so many new words…

            I figure you guys will always know who I am due to my aggressive ‘debating’ style:P

            If I just end or start everything with ‘dumbfuck’, ‘dumbass’, ‘fuckface’ – as is my habit – I assume everyone will know:P

            I was watching the Daily Show last night and there were some joke businesses:

            Dildo Depot
            F%&#k A Bear Workshop

            Man, so tempting to use Dildo Depot as a ‘nym.

          • Ella Warnock

            Do it!

          • outrageous

            Ok!!!!

            Actually, it will be awesome. Especially if I can mount a coherent argument. It will be great when I get accused of being an immature fucknut…

          • Ella Warnock

            Well, you know, consider the source . . .

          • dildo depot

            it is done! Refresh!

            Actually, I will just accuse them of being turned on by the ‘nym if they complain:P

          • Ella Warnock

            I like it!

          • dildo depot

            No drooling!!!

          • Ella Warnock

            Lol, okay.

          • dildo depot

            I’m afraid to go over to LJF with this nick.

            At least the Friendly Atheist doesn’t mind ‘bad werdz’ but Libby Anne is a little touchy:((

          • Ella Warnock

            I know. It’s frustrating sometimes. I’m really enjoying FA, though.

          • dildo depot

            BJ_survivor just used my new nick in a sentence:

            Dildo depot has substantiated this claim repeatedly. Not her fault you lack reading comprehension skills.

            How awesome is that.

            “Dildo depot has…”

            It is a ‘nym of authority…of science :PPPP

            Speaking of BJ survivor, I have always wanted to ask her wtf the BJ stands for :)

          • Ella Warnock

            BJ’s cool like that. ;-)

            Yeah, I wonder wtf too!

          • BJ Survivor

            Means what you probably think it means, “blow job.” It’s in response to the vapid forced-birther meme that they are abortion survivors because their mothers gestated and birthed them, even when the most logical thing to do would have been to terminate their pregnancies. Commander D, an awesomely funny, pro-choice, child-free Brit, pointed out to that their mothers could have had a headache or instead given their fathers/sperm donors a blow job and same result as an abortion, so we could also all be considered blow job survivors. I laughed so hard that I had to use it as my screen name.

          • Quis ut Deus

            That is awesome.

            And true, when you take their logic to it’s conclusion.

          • TheodoreSeeber

            I’d put pro-choicers on the terrorist watch list, for sure. 55 million dead and counting.

          • dildo depot

            Would you also sent pro-choicers to the electric chair?

            Or just life in prison?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Yes, Teddy Ruxpin, we know that your elevator does not go to the top floor.

          • Ella Warnock

            Oooo, ouch.

            Pfffft, no, not really. Didn’t even leave a dent. Nary a scratch to be found.

          • TheodoreSeeber

            55 million dead from your law.

          • fiona64

            You are a lunatic who makes wild accusations with no basis in reality.

          • TheodoreSeeber

            55 million dead by the policy you support is reality.

          • fiona64

            Theodore, did you have to take yoga in order to make that stretch?

            Anti-choice men just make me laugh.

      • Jennifer Starr

        And that’s why you’re an idiot, Teddy-boy–and not a doctor.

        • TheodoreSeeber

          So your definition of doctor is “one who kills half of his patients”?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Kills half of what patients,, Teddums?

          • TheodoreSeeber

            In a well run abortion clinic, 50% of the patients never survive.

            In a badly run one, significantly less than 50% survive.

          • Jennifer Starr

            There’s only one patient, and it’s not a fetus. The patient is the woman.

          • dildo depot

            You know, there is a blog post over on LJF about how we pro-choicers often misrepresent pro-life arguments…

            I think that if Libby Anne spent some time here, she would see that uhm, we don’t misrepresent a thing.

            The majority – over 95% – of the pro-lifers that we get here all advocate violence, prison, and death for ‘pro-aborts’.

          • Jennifer Starr

            No we don’t misrepresent anything. We’ve even had the terrorist Donald Spitz on this board. Even ‘pro-lifers’ who are supposedly non-violent lend tacit support to these terrorists.

          • BJ Survivor

            And that raped little girls should gestate and birth or die trying. After many, many years witnessing forced-birther depravity, I have no patience for their bullshit women-are-breeding-livestock philosophy. I only argue with them when they come onto obviously pro-choice boards looking for a fight. I have no desire to meet them at their wankfests, where I’ll get banned no matter how politely I make my points. I only refrain from immediately (well, sometimes I don’t even do that) calling them “dumbfucks” for the fence-sitters.

          • Quis ut Deus

            Often I just go straight for ‘dumb fuck’ :)

          • BJ Survivor

            I’ve noticed that about you and I approve!

            We had a wonderful regular here, crowepps, who, like you, found obscure and fascinating studies and news items, But, somehow, she never resorted to swearing. She would, though, tell them off in the most erudite way possible, which meant those clueless misogynists just never got it. She died earlier this year. Even though I never knew her in real life, I miss her razor sharp wit and tremendous decorum (which I, obviously, don’t have and which I certainly don’t condemn others for not having when it comes to telling bible-babbling busybodies to mind their own fucking business).

          • Quis ut Deus

            So that is what happened to her!

            She was a badass! Man. I am bummed now:((

            fiona64 is quite witty, I wish I had her knack for condescension

            Arekeshuriu too, and Jennifer Starr have some awesome one liners

            I lack the wit, so I just stick to scientific studies + insults:P

      • outrageous

        How much jail time do you recommend for women who abort their pregnancies?

        • TheodoreSeeber

          The remaining months of the pregnancy.

          • outrageous

            no dumbfuck, if a woman has a pre-viability abortion – at say 8 weeks, how much jail time should she do as punishment for the crime of MURDER?

          • TheodoreSeeber

            9 months.

          • dildo depot

            And if a rape victim aborts her pregnancy.

            Let’s say she is 11 years old.

            How much jail time should she do?

            And uhm, why 9 months? If you consider abortion to be murder, isn’t 9 months a little light?

          • Jennifer Starr

            You really are one sick puppy, aren’t you, Teddy?

          • fiona64

            Let’s see. He advocates removing women’s liberty the minute they become pregnant … so he’s obviously pro-slavery.

            Jesus would be so proud …

  • JamieHaman

    Sounds like a patient who only heard the word ‘abortion’ and lost her mind.

  • UnEasyOne

    Strip these bastards of their tax-exempt status – they just use it to fund their forays into politics. If they aren’t willing to provide needed care, they should also be stripped of all necessary licensing relevant to the operation of a hospital. Instead of refusing federal funding for abortion, we should refuse all federal funding to hospitals and medical personnel who allow religious quackery to play any part in their medical decision-making process.

  • painkills2

    My new tattoo reads: If I unable communicate due to illness, please don’t take me to a Catholic hospital.

  • TheodoreSeeber

    Typical lefty. The standard of care for “congenital illness” is to kill the patient’s children, if they failed to get the patient before birth.

    • HeilMary1

      You sound like a typical pedophile priest / mother killer who doesn’t give a hoot about ALL women’s medical right to life. We’re not your incubating slaves, pervert fetal idolater!

      • TheodoreSeeber

        Then why do you have a uterus?

        • Guest

          I have absolutely no idea. It’s been nothing but troublesome and worthless. About the only useful thing it’s ever done is provide structural support for the rest of my organs, else I would have had it removed years ago.

        • Jennifer Starr

          The fact that a woman has a uterus does not mean that she needs or has to have babies. Biology is not destiny.

        • outrageous

          Anatomy is not destiny. Idiot.

          • TheodoreSeeber

            It should be. But of course, you’re all into denying the physical world.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Well, when you get pregnant, then you get to make decisions about your pregnancy and decide what ‘it should be’. Until then, leave that decision up to the people who actually are pregnant.

          • TheodoreSeeber

            55 million dead is a pretty bad turnout.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Yep, you’ve pretty much stopped making sense at this point. This, of course, assumes you were making sense to begin with, which is doubtful. You’re starting to remind me of the Monty Python sketch where the woman wails “But it’s my only line!”

          • outrageous

            Why should anatomy be destiny fatso?

          • TheodoreSeeber

            Because there is a purpose in it. That’s something I had to learn the hard way.

          • dildo depot

            What is this ‘purpose’ ?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Awww…did you finally figure out what your uterus is for?

          • Ella Warnock

            But it’s not.
            {cheshire cat smile}

          • fiona64

            DD wrote “Anatomy is not destiny.

            Theodore then wrote: “It should be.”

            Again, easy to be an anti-choice male … especially a forced-birther idiot like Theodore. After all, it’s never *his* body that will be at risk of life and limb in pregnancy.

            Tell you what, Theodore: please feel free to gestate every single pregnancy that takes place in your body.

            Anti-choice men are, to a one, laughable losers.

    • outrageous

      An embryo is not a child.

  • Ella Warnock

    I think guest might have just been poking the bear. Teddy gets very offended by the idea that women might not care to use their uterii for its “holy” purpose. He’d likely find it even more offensive that some might prefer to not even have one.

  • dildo depot

    Teddy here is pro-slavery period:

    Part may also be that I’m a Catholic Monarchist who thinks that the
    Constitution itself was a pretty bad idea, not to mention the Protestant
    Rebellion and the laughable falling of spiritual darkness that they
    called the “Enlightenment”. The world’s been getting worse for a very
    long time, and neither you nor I are at the start of it (and I very much
    doubt we’ll be at the end- already the white papers are being written
    claiming that pedophilia isn’t a mental illness either).

    How charming. Fuck the constitution.

    • Jennifer Starr

      So I’m guessing he wants to go back to the late 17th–early 18th century then–or even earlier. Interesting time periods all, but I don’t fancy living in it. He also says that he doesn’t believe in individual freedom. Charming indeed. I pity his spouse and any children they might have.

      • dildo depot

        I have come across a few monarchists over the years.

        They are obsessed with grovelling to their god and their monarch. They feverishly masturbate to the idea of how they will be rewarded for their obedience. It’s all kinds of fucked up. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have a masochistic bent – that they fantasize about being dominated.

        Anyways, I sincerely doubt that Teddy here would enjoy living in a feudalisitic society.

  • Ella Warnock

    Ah, Elzee is trolling. I thought I detected a little more snark than was absolutely necessary. Hey Elzee, ever heard of enterocele? The Mayo Clinic and Webmd websites have a thing or two to say about it. Go read it and get yourself “medically literate,” why don’t you?

    http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/enterocele/DS00765

    http://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/repair-of-the-rectum-rectocele-or-small-bowel-enterocele

    “Rectocele and enterocele formation may occur together, especially if you have had surgery to remove the uterus (hysterectomy).”

    Anything you need assistance with, just let me know.

    • dildo depot

      Thanks!

      I learned something!

      Ella ftw!

  • JamieHaman

    It’s time to get the Catholic Church out of Medical decision making processes. They want to help fund a hospital…that’s fine. No more murdering directives. No more interference with a doctor’s responsibility to his patient.
    No more “conscience clauses” that only affect women.

Mobile Theme