Abortion Clinic Buffer Zone Law Moves Forward in Portland, Maine


Patients at the Planned Parenthood in Portland, Maine, are one step closer to being legally protected against harassment by anti-abortion protesters.

The Portland City Council’s Public Safety, Health and Human Services Committee unanimously passed an ordinance October 8th establishing a 39-foot “patient safety zone” outside the clinic, which has been routinely targeted by protesters affiliated with the anti-choice Center for Bioethical Reform and Pro-Life Missionaries of Maine.

The ordinance will proceed to the full council for a vote on November 18. Councilor and committee chair Ed Suslovic told the Bangor Daily News that he expects the council to unanimously approve the ordinance at that meeting.

“For over a year now, our downtown Portland health center has had increasingly hostile protest activity that has interfered with our patients’ ability to access reproductive health care,” Eric Covey, grassroots organizer with Planned Parenthood of Northern New England, told RH Reality Check. “The recent move to recommend the ordinance to the rest of the city council is an incredible move forward and an amazing show of support from the Portland community.”

More than 40 people offered public comments at last week’s committee meeting, and everyone who spoke was in favor of establishing the buffer zone.

“Many who spoke had very compelling stories with regard to having experienced what they repeatedly referred to as a ‘gauntlet’ of protesters,” Deputy City Manager Sheila Hill-Christian told RH Reality Check in an email.

“Almost everybody talked about how they had felt intimidated, avoided appointments, or didn’t want to have to walk down that street with those people there,” said Mike Fink, who attended the meeting and owns a pawn shop next door to the Planned Parenthood. Fink has organized counter-protests against the anti-choice protesters in the past, but says he stopped in part because the extra attention made things worse for patients.

The protests also led Fink to close a restaurant he owned. “It didn’t make sense to keep selling sandwiches with kids holding posters of dead babies out front,” he said.

The protests took place weekly, on Friday and Saturday mornings, which is when abortions are performed at the clinic. About 20 protesters, adults and children, typically attended, but sometimes there were as few as eight and as many as 40.

“Patients sometimes come to us in tears, talking about experiences they have being verbally harassed and intimidated by protesters, shouted at, had their picture taken,” said Covey. “They’ve had to walk through a pretty harrowing gauntlet just to get into the front door.”

The Planned Parenthood clinic surveyed 161 patients, 150 of whom said they were made to feel “uncomfortable” by the protesters.

“A number of patients expressed that, first, their access was being blocked, and second, that their safety was being threatened,” Zachary Heiden, legal director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Maine, told RH Reality Check.

Chief of Police Michael Sauschuck told the city council committee that police officers often faced difficult decisions about whether the harassment actually warranted criminal prosecution. Despite police presence at the clinic, Heiden said, Planned Parenthood employees and patients still reported feeling that their access and safety had been compromised.

Leslie Sneddon, an organizer of the anti-abortion protests, told the Maine Public Broadcasting Network that the buffer zone “criminalizes pro-life expression while making explicit exemption for the advocates of abortion.”

However, Heiden said that the ordinance is viewpoint-neutral, meaning in this case that it does not discriminate based on whether protesters are for or against abortion.

Heiden said Portland’s buffer zone ordinance is very similar to laws in Burlington, Vermont, and Worcester, Massachusetts—laws that “were created with existing Supreme Court First Amendment jurisprudence in mind.”

While the Pro-Life Missionaries of Maine have threatened legal action against the buffer zone, similar laws have been upheld in courts of appeal.

The Massachusetts law still faces a Supreme Court challenge, however, and if it fails under the Roberts Court, the legal fate of Portland’s buffer zone may be an open question.

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  • expect_resistance

    Yeah! Kudos to Portland, Maine. I hope it helps keep the anti-choice wackos at bay. In MN I’ve seen a Franciscan brother protesting a clinic by himself on a Sunday. How weird is that? The clinic isn’t even open. What a freak. I’ve asked the creepy old men who do this if they get their rocks off on harassing sexually active women. Of course no answer other than their usual forced birther crap. I wish these idiots would get a life.

    • Scot Brandon

      So who are the true “victims”?

      Those that meet resistance on there way to murder babies or the babies being murdered?

      • Jennifer Starr

        Cut the histrionics, Scotty–no one here is talking about ‘murdering babies’.

        • Scot Brandon

          What do you think the protestors are protesting?

          • goatini

            They are protesting independent women with the power of personal bodily autonomy and self-determination.

          • Scot Brandon

            Nope, they are protesting murdering babies regardless of age or location.

          • goatini

            Since all babies, everywhere, ever, throughout history, have already been born, the “location” of ALL babies is the location of all autonomous entities – independent from a living host.

            If you know of any babies being harmed in any way whatsoever, you should contact your local law enforcement authorities without delay.

          • Sieben Stern

            you should try protesting the men that get women pregnant. because babies don’t poof into existence.

            OH WAIT. you’re a man. rights are only to be taken away from other people.

          • expect_resistance

            Arn’t you a fine example of bullying. Go away. You are not welcome in women’s health care decisions. It’s NONE of your business. Your harassment and bullying is unwelcome and unwanted. I know you think you are coming to the rescue to “save babies” but you’re wrong. You must have some sort of messiah complex. You might want to seek therapy for that. Do you bud into other peoples lives or just sexually active women you don’t know? BTW if you want to save actual babies you might want to protest wars around the world that kill actual babies instead of wasting your time harassing women you don’t know who want you to leave them alone.

          • Scot Brandon

            Murder is not health care.

          • Jennifer Starr

            And abortion is not murder

          • Scot Brandon

            Currently, at least 38 states have fetal homicide laws. The states include: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia and Wisconsin. At least 23 states have fetal homicide laws that apply to the earliest stages of pregnancy (“any state of gestation,” “conception,” “fertilization” or “post-fertilization”)

            Abortion is murder.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Fetal homicide laws are predicated upon harm done to the woman.. But okay, let’s go with this. If you think abortion is murder, what should the penalty be, legally, to a woman who has one?

          • Scot Brandon

            Same as it would be for anyone who plans to kill someone. The pro-murder arguments for babies are not logical or consistent. Common sense and laws currently still on the books show these inconsistencies. Can someone destroy and eagle egg and argue there isn’t an eagle inside of it so they shouldn’t be fined or imprisoned? No, but pro-murderers lie and say it’s not a baby in the womb although everyone knows it is. Slavery was legal in this country (didn’t make it right) until it was abolished, abortion will be abolished as well, because murdering babies is wrong.

          • Jennifer Starr

            So women who have abortions should be charged with first degree murder? Should miscarriages be investigated by law enforcement as well?

          • Jennifer Starr

            And what about women who have had abortions in the past? No statute of limitations on murder, remember.

          • Ella Warnock

            People who destroy eagle eggs aren’t charged with murder.

          • goatini

            You’re on the side of the slavemasters, hypocrite. You support gestational slavery because you think female US citizens aren’t people.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Were the slaves attached to their master by an umbillical cord and sucking slave blood to live?

          • Arekushieru

            Exactly! That’s ALWAYS the difference that poor little anti brains just CAN’T fucking grasp for some reason.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            That is why I put it so crudely. I could choose loftier language. But you can hardly get facts through no matter how polite or earnest your try at communication might be. Laughing at them and baldly stating reality works a bit.

          • Arekushieru

            Sorry, but the ONLY ones with inconsistencies are anti-choicers such as yourself. You even PROVED it with this ONE post. WOW. The IRONY.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Yet you make the claim that enslaving rape victims is OK cause it “saves babies”. You’re not just Anti-woman your antihuman.

          • Arekushieru

            AND the fact that the pregnancy was not terminated in the manner she wished…..

          • Jennifer Starr

            And how can they apply to conception? Because until the egg implants in the uterus there is no way of telling you have conceived and no test will tell you that you are pregnant until the egg implants.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            All of those charges are predicated upon damage to the primary and only victim – the pregnant woman.

          • expect_resistance

            Wrong again! Fetal homicide laws do not grant personhood status to a fetus.

            Fetal homicide laws (depending on who is legislating it, pro-choice/pro-woman or anti-choice/anti-woman in some states) have increased the criminal penalties for crimes involving pregnant women. These laws have focused on the harm done to a pregnant woman and the subsequent loss of her pregnancy, but not on the rights of the fetus. Of course anti-choicers see the rights of the fetus trumping the rights of women. A fetus can’t exist on it’s own because it’s not a person.

            “Even if a legislature wanted to create full fetal personhood, it would be without power to do so. Simply put: fetal laws do not confer personhood upon the fetus because procedurally, they cannot. No legislature is free to promulgate legislation that is incompatible with the federal Constitution; the Constitution is the ‘supreme Law of the Land.’ (134) The Supreme Court has already made clear that the fetus is not a ‘person’ (135) under the Constitution,
            and thus is not entitled to protection from deprivation of ‘life, liberty,
            … [or] equal protection of the laws.’ (136) Legislatures cannot declare otherwise, since this would be in derogation of the Constitution, as interpreted by the Supreme Court in Roe v. Wade. (137)

            No legislature is free to promulgate legislation that is incompatible with the federal Constitution; the Constitution is the ‘supreme Law of the Land.’ (134) The Supreme Court has already made clear that the fetus is not a ‘person’ (135) under the Constitution, and thus is not entitled to protection from deprivation of ‘life, liberty, … [or] equal protection of the laws.’ (136) Legislatures cannot declare otherwise, since this would be in derogation of the Constitution, as
            interpreted by the Supreme Court in Roe v. Wade. (137)”
            Quoted from – 2010 Case Western Reserve University School of Law

          • Arekushieru

            Although, I DO believe that fetuses are ALREADY given equal protection. If they were granted a right to exist at all costs that antis such as Scot would like to see, they would be given MORE protection than ANYONE born.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            So you keep claiming yet you do nothing for the children who are born unwanted often living in the most squalid conditions with living the lifestyle you presently enjoy.

          • fiona64

            Your inability to comprehend that fetal homicide laws are attached as special circumstances when harm is done to a woman, and why your absurd redefinition of murder fails, is no one’s fault but your own.

          • goatini

            No, it isn’t. And safe, legal pregnancy termination IS health care.

          • Arekushieru

            Then pregnancy care is not health care. Would you prevent the woman in the photo from receiving care if she was pregnant? If so, that is SICK. If not, you are a fucking hypocrite.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            No you’re not living in the real world. Frankly I hope you never have kids. What you’d subject them to would be truly horrifying. I know I grew up in exactly that kind of environment. I’m an adult and still recovering from it. I still cant say for sure if I ever will. Still have trouble making friends or close connections cause I have the greatest trouble trusting anyone.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Then how come they only protest PP and women’s health clinics. How come they are not out there protesting fertility clinic practices that may selectively reduce several implanted embryos in one treatment?

          • cjvg

            I’m still waiting on your enthusiastic consent to the wonderful option of mandatory vasectomies

          • expect_resistance

            Exactly! They want to control women. They hate independent women who don’t want to be broodmares. I’m so sick of these misogynistic jerks.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Basically I think they get off on shouting at and harassing others, which is something you’d probably know quite a bit about.

          • Scot Brandon

            Maybe I should go to the local abortuary with a sign that says “babies are murdered here” just so its clarifies what and why there is a protest happening. It seems like there is either confusion on the issue or just ignorance on what is being protested.

          • expect_resistance

            Wow you do lead a rich fantasy life. Here’s reality. Anti-choice forced birthers who protest at clinics are bullies.

          • goatini

            Maybe you should go to the local fertility clinic and protest. You know, since on sheer volume alone, the number of products of conception that are defrosted and discarded at such an establishment are a veritable army – compared to the products of conception that are electively (AND LEGALLY) terminated safely (AND LEGALLY) at a (LEGAL) reproductive health care facility.

            But your REAL goal is to harass, stalk, threaten, intimidate, and attempt to force FALSE blame and shame on female US citizens exercising their civil, human and Constitutional rights to privacy (as protected by the Due Process clause of the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution) – because you hate, fear and despise independent female US citizens with the power of personal bodily autonomy and self-determination.

            And protesting petri dishes just isn’t as much fun for vicious theocratic misogynists such as yourself, as harassing, stalking, threatening and intimidating actual female US citizens.

          • expect_resistance

            Applause goatini!

            Yes, yes, yes! I second your post. Right on!

          • Scot Brandon

            Nice rant! But you obviously, are confused. if you think pro life people want to harass people.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Harassment is the gist of what they do. Even in front of people’s homes, churches, etc. I believe the word is stalking?

          • Ella Warnock

            Oh, but remember, it’s all “freedom to assemble”! That freedom trumps any right to privacy, doncha know. However, they

            want – nay, feel ENTITLED to – privacy for themselves and their families. People they don’t like aren’t entitled to any rights at all.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Does everyone here know about Voice for Choice? When these folks are confronted peacefully in their own homes and place of business, they backdown bigtime.
            http://www.vochoice.org/

          • expect_resistance

            Thanks for posting the link to Voice of Choice. I would love to do a counter protest but the local PP asks that we not engage the antis in counter-protest out of respect for their clients. I understand, but it’s really frustrating to not do anything. I’m so sick of watching the harassment and bullying.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            This is something we can all do no matter our circumstances that is effective and nonviolent. I have to do something active myself. Otherwise I am going to get so angry I will do something antisocial. I want to avoid that angry helpless feeling. It is not good to feel that way for long.

          • Ella Warnock

            I didn’t know about this, Plum, thanks. It’s quite the game changer when they get the blowback of the exact crap they’ve been peddling.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Happy to pass it on.

            Not the exact crap. Just a polite mirroring of their crap. That is enough it seems. At least for the relatively sane nuts. Provides perspective.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            They’re cowards who can’t stand family / coworkers / friends finding out what they get up to. Much like those who frequent strip joints I suspect or the video store with the blacked out windows.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Oh yes. Exactly like that.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            And it is a crime in any other context. One loses all illusions about the morality of these folks when one lets that sink fully into one’s consciousness. What they do to women going for medical care is a crime in any other circumstance. Tell me there is no war on women.

          • expect_resistance

            Exactly, in any other circumstance it would be criminal. It’s complete bullshit that this kind of misogynistic behavior is tolerated.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I would further. The fact that the government allows it to happen is discrimination against a specific gender/class/group of people and that is, by definition, a hate crime. If this were happening to say Muslims, would it be tolerated? It is in NYC. When us stalking and harassment not a crime? When you do it to women.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            how little has changed from a century ago when women were not considered people and not allowed to vote or even own property.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            When you consider that women have only had the vote for 93 years, the lifetime of one woman like my Mother who is exactly 93, it is not surprising.

          • goatini

            Forcing yourself in an innocent stranger’s face and business, when she is attempting to access LEGAL medical services in a LEGAL medical facility IS HARASSMENT. It’s also stalking, threatening and intimidating.

          • Scot Brandon

            The first amendment is also a legal right. And babies should be protected against people that want to murder them regardless of the location.

          • Jennifer Starr

            A woman who is pregnant is more than just ‘a location’.

          • goatini

            The First Amendment doesn’t give anyone the right to stalk, harass, threaten or intimidate innocent citizens.

            And the “location” of ALL infants is as already born, autonomous persons that are not dependent upon a living host.

            If you are aware of infants being harmed in any way whatsoever, you should contact local law enforcement immediately.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            We need to get something clear. If you attempt to enforce your agenda on my daughters in real life when they are on the way to the clinic for any reason at all, I will rip your twig and berries off, nail your twig to a wall, and urninate on your bleeding spasming body. You whackjobs depend upon the good will and respect for the law of ordinary citizens. I am no longer of a mind to put up with forced birth terrorism. I will hurt you.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Baby is such a sweet colloquial word. My dog’s name is Baby. I call my 300 lb 6ft5inch BF “Baby.”

            IF am pregnant I cannot afford to feed it or I do not want it, it is out of there before it becomes more than a clot. Cry me a river.

          • cjvg

            I would suggest you actually try to learn about the subjects you spout of on since you are so embarrassingly and irrefutably wrong every time you spout some other unsubstantiated personal believe.

            Although why your personal opinions must even be considered relevant to the personal sex lives, or health decision of other women/people I cannot say

            You obviously have a pressing need NOT to read all the science, facts, ethics and rational given by all the people who are responding to your inane ramblings.
            You obviously have a pressing need NOT to understand why women are human beings and developing fetuses are only potential life.

            Quite possibly this is so because otherwise you might have to face the reality that there are no reasonable grounds for your mean spirited, cruel and inhumane attempts to reduce women to
            less than human.

            Once you are forced to admit that to yourself, you will have to admit that your real reasons are less than admirable and firmly rooted in your need to control and feel superior to women to prop up your
            pitiful self

            To sum up your argument: “a human beings at any stage of development are persons”
            This clearly illustrates that you consider a single cell organism as just as much a person as the woman.
            That whole concept is incredibly ludicrous to anyone who has ever taken the time to look at a woman and at a fertilized egg!

          • Arekushieru

            AND completely insulting to women…. But, of course, antis don’t care about that, otherwise they wouldn’t be protesting the fact that a woman deserves full human rights.

          • Arekushieru

            Freedom OF speech, douchebag. Freedom OF assembly. OF equals… TO and FROM, btw.

          • colleen2

            Thus FERTILITY CLINICS. Those are ‘babies’ too and they get flushed down sinks. Same thing for MOST fertilized ova. Tiny ‘babies’ didn’t even get a proper burial. Unmarked graves. Hell, you probably drink their tiny bodies along with our tainted lady pee. ghoul.

          • expect_resistance

            BTW Let’s talk ranting. Just look at your posts for an example of histrionics. goatini is justified in her eloquent posts about women being bullied and harassed by forced-birthers.

          • Ella Warnock

            But you evaded the point of this “rant.” It’s a valid question. Products of artificial conception are being discarded – killed, in your
            venacular – at fertility clinics. These” babies” are also worthy of your time and attention, no? Perhaps you could take your “babies are murdered here” sign to one of these clinics.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Then why do they harass people if they do not want to do it?

          • cjvg

            Mandatory vasectomies!!!

            So Why are you and those who think like you finally going to get around to the ultimate fool proof solution for it all?
            And the best thing is men are finally in control of all procreation, it is just one big win for them.

            Every boy upon completing adolescence will have his sperm stored and be given a mandatory vasectomy.
            When a man finds his baby mama, he can give written permission to use his sperm for impregnation. Barely any female birth control will be needed anymore (bar those with conditions needing them)
            Just look at all the benefits to society;
            -cheap, quick, permanent surgery without risk.
            -The environment has much less hormones in it,
            -women are save from evil hormones and forced pregnancies,
            -no abortions or plan B needed, unwanted abused children will be a thing of the past,
            -no man will ever be tricked into fatherhood by those evil women again,
            -all children born are wanted and well considered choices,
            -no more dead beat dads.
            -And best of all for men like you, You are finally in charge of all procreation choices!!!!!!!

            Just pure heaven, is it not?!
            So why do I never hear about that law being promoted?

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            So says the judgemental manchild with rants in his pants.

          • fiona64

            Well, when you go to a legitimate place of business with no other purpose in mind but to scream at and bother that business’ clients, that is indeed harassment.

          • expect_resistance

            No such thing as an abortuary.

          • Ella Warnock

            Maybe you should, Scot. Why don’t you get right on that.

          • Mandy Heath

            Scot, while you’re at it, you should also do this at IVF clinics. because for every IVF baby produced, there are about 30 unused embryos.

          • colleen2

            They flush them down the sinks! The poor tiny babies. Scot forgets about them because they aren’t surrounded by a woman for him to order around and demean.

          • Amanda Kazarian

            Um, no, some of us go to those clinics to get contraception and NOT be pregnant. I have had to tell many prolifers outside those clinics that I’m not even fucking pregnant. They shut up. I suggest you follow suit.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I will have sex. I will use contraception. If I get pregnant, I will abort or give birth as I see fit. Not as you see fit.
            Howl at the moon, Fruitbat.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Personally I think he is batty no doubt but fruit is far healthier than his state of mind.

          • Ella Warnock

            “Howl at the moon, Fruitbat.”

            Lol, I’m so stealing this.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Enjoy.

          • Arekushieru

            Sorry, but that only creates confusion not clarification, since any SANE, RATIONAL person understands what these terms and words actually MEAN.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            The only confusion here is your own.

          • fiona64

            Maybe you should get a life and stop threatening to stalk and harass women seeking medical care.

          • expect_resistance

            They are looser bullies who need to get a life.

          • colleen2

            I think it’s what serves the religious right for a social life.

          • colleen2

            The men or the women?

          • cjvg

            That women and female children have the right to own their own bodies and that you as a male have absolutely nothing to say about it!

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Perfectly true, nobody should force themselves on another thats not love its violence. Someone who’s genuinely trustworthy would wait for permission before going there.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            We’re protesting your rampaging stupidity & sexism. Stunning how you can be that oblivious.

          • fiona64

            Their inability to get a date on Saturday nights.

            Oh, and women having the audacity to exercise their rights to bodily autonomy.

        • Ella Warnock

          To be honest, this one is somewhat less than interesting.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Yes, he basically just says the same thing over and over

      • goatini

        All babies, ever, have already been born. If you know of anyone harming babies, please contact your local law enforcement authorities.

        • Scot Brandon

          It is okay to kill babies in the womb according to you?

          • expect_resistance

            They are not babies if there in the womb. It’s a fetus not a baby. Duh. Quit bullying women!

          • Scot Brandon

            Quit promoting murdering babies!

          • expect_resistance

            We could go at this all day. Frankly I have better things to do than argue with a misogynist. No one is murdering babies. Like goatini said call the police if someone is committing murder. Otherwise leave women alone. QUIT BULLYING WOMEN!!!!!

          • Scot Brandon

            If your premise was true, there would be no protestors.

          • goatini

            Your inane comment only proves that forced-birthers have a dark, tangled and twisted “values” system in which lies are “true”.

          • expect_resistance

            Yes, they are sick and twisted. Did you see the comment posted to me as a response from some forced-birthed? Wow what a nut job. They feel justified in threatening physical violence to women to get their way. The truth comes out.

          • Scot Brandon

            Ironic the one claiming murdering babies is okay is calling the one who doesn’t sick and twisted.

          • goatini

            But since all babies, ever, have already been born, what IS sick and twisted are people who lie about the accurate, scientific and technical definitions of language, and who try to use their sick and twisted lies to violate the civil, human and Constitutional rights of female US citizens to personal bodily autonomy and privacy in LEGAL healthcare decisions.

          • Ella Warnock

            There’s nothing “ironic” about it.

          • expect_resistance

            Once again, no one is murdering BABIES. Do you read and comprehend? This is getting old.

          • Arekushieru

            Agreed with Ella. Because, quite simply, the ONLY irony is that the one who claims gestational slavery is okay is the one who is calling everyone ELSE twisted and sick.

          • fiona64

            Just read Scottie’s comment history. He’s a homophobe as well as misogynist (not that this is shocking; both of those positions arise from the same root). It’s all about rigid concepts of gender roles: women should be forced to have children, even at risk to life and health, because that’s their sole purpose. Gay men and lesbians should be forced to marry people of the opposite sex, because that’s how infants are created … which brings us back to the first point.

            Feh.

          • Jennifer Starr

            He also seems to have this strange habit of equating pedophilia with jumping rope and scuba-diving, which is very strange and makes no sense whatsoever.

          • Scot Brandon

            @ Goatini //Your inane comment only proves that forced-birthers have a dark, tangled and twisted “values” system in which lies are “true”.//

            And you think it is okay to kill babies in the womb, your moral compass is broken and you probably shouldn’t talk about right and wrong. You don’t have a standard of judgement to base that system on, it’s based on societies view of convenience and just like the Nazi holocaust the american holocaust of killing babies is also wrong.

          • goatini

            As the child of a survivor, I feel justified in telling you to go to Hell, along with everyone else who wishes to exploit innocent female US citizens as livestock in gestational slavery.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Seriously Snot, your head must be so frantically spinning right now you’d make Linda Blair dizzy. And since you don’t know your views are actully fully in line with those of the German Nazi party during WW2.

          • Arekushieru

            Sorry, but Hitler was just as anti-choice as YOU. He FORCED German woman to carry fetuses to term, and FORCED Jewish women to abort. NEITHER of which is Pro-CHOICE. Oops. Did your little head go all splodey, yet? He believed, like YOU, that more rights should be granted to those he considered superior: Germans (in your ilk’s case: fetuses). He ALSO believed, like YOU, that fewer rights should be granted to those he considered inferior: Jews (in YOUR ilk’s case: WOMEN). See how I said all that without having to Godwin by comparing abortion to the Holocaust, thereby diminishing the horrifying results of that evil moment in time?

            And YOUR system is based on society’s view of convenience. After all, you will never be pregnant, so it’s easy and convenient for YOU to deny women the same rights that everyone else has, while forcing her to assume potentially fatal and life-threatening consequences to her health. Rape, for all its moral repugnance and emotional and physical violations, does not constitute NEARLY the same level of dangerous complications to one’s physical health. However, because men can also be raped, the dispute over whether or not victims can use deadly force to defend themselves never comes into question by your ilk. That that’s the only reason you base your defense of deadly force upon, IS morally repugnant.

            So, no, it is YOUR system that is based on society’s view of convenience, and it is your view of CONVENIENCE that claims rape is a walk in the park.

            SO contradictory and REPUGNANT.

          • expect_resistance

            Bullshit. Sadly misogyny is a problem, which is apparent in your posts. People who feel entitled to harass, bully, and stalk women for accessing legal medical services is a problem. Please get a life and quit harassing women. We are not your broodmares.

          • Ella Warnock

            If all abortion ended today, all over the world, there would still be protesters. They would relocate their efforts to ob/gyn offices where contraception is being prescribed.

          • Arekushieru

            Yup, even though contraception can be used to PREVENT abortion and save lives in OTHER ways.

          • Scot Brandon

            @ Ella //If all slavery ended today, all over the world, there would still be protesters.//

            The pro slavery people probably used the same arguments, you use for pro-death (abortion)

          • goatini

            You support the forced imposition of gestational slavery. You are on the side of the pro-slavery movement.

          • Ella Warnock

            I doubt they did. But do feel free to cite a source for your claim.

          • fiona64

            Citation needed.

          • Mandy Heath

            Scot, why don’t you come back when you have grown a uterus, and have an unwanted pregnancy.

          • Scot Brandon

            //why don’t you come back when you have grown a uterus, and have an unwanted pregnancy//

            Males can also care about babies who are the true victims and have no one to speak out for them. As a former baby in the womb who potentially could have been aborted. I am able to speak out against the murder of babies in the womb.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Sorry, but women should not be forced to carry pregnancies to term because of your existential angst.

          • goatini

            Not your “womb”, not your business. The ONLY “womb” that is any of your business is YOUR OWN. That leaves you OUT of any decision about anyone else’s “womb”. Bye.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            If you had kids then you could care for them, question is would you? I doubt it. I’d feel sorry for any woman who had you as a husband or kids who had you as a father.

          • Mandy Heath

            If you know someone who is killing babies, you should seek the authorities. As for whether or not you can tell women what to do with their bodies, no you are not able to.
            You can in no way understand what it is like to have an unwanted pregnancy. You can in no way understand what it is like to go through pregnancy, to have your body change, to possibly endure medical complications because of it.
            Do you even hear yourself? Do you even consider the physical, mental, and monetary stresses you want to FORCE onto women? Do you even consider that those things exist? Or are you one of those “oh, pregnancy is only a minor inconvenience” type of people?

          • fiona64

            So easy to be an anti-choice male, isn’t it, Scotty?

            After all, you will never have to risk life and health to gestate a pregnancy — whether wanted or unwanted. You won’t have to worry about permanent anatomical changes, or pelvic floor damage, or pre-eclampsia, eclampsia, and other life-threatening conditions that come with pregnancy. You can just sit there in your La-Z-Boy and proclaim that women assume risks that you will never see.

            Must be nice to be so privileged … and so very ignorant.

          • cjvg

            As a current woman at risk of dying are being (permanently) injured from a pregnancy or childbirth I just have a tad more right then you or that “baby: to protest the usurpation of the rights to use my body as I see fit

          • Arekushieru

            You weren’t aborted because your MOTHER made a fucking CHOICE. Just like I wasn’t aborted because MY mother made a fucking CHOICE. Now, if you are going to go back and say that your mother should have been FORCED to have you, that will show us just exactly how LOVING Pro-Life REALLY is. And how you believed your fucking life was so much more important and was so much more VALUABLE than your mother’s, because you’re just that GREEDY.

            And you were in the womb of a WOMAN, not a MAN. For all your claims that you know whether or not a baby resides in the womb, you remain ‘REMARKABLY’ ignorant about who carries them. After all, that IS the fucking POINT. You are MAKING women the VICTIMS, because you equate YOUR experience, being in the womb with THEIRS, being in the womb AND being the one who CARRIES the fucking fetus (which is what the whole argument circles around, little boy, but you Pro-Lifers just put your fingers in your ears while singing lalala, all the time, because you KNOW that we would force you to confront the FACT that YOU know that that is what this is all about, if you didn’t, and would, then, have to ADMIT to your MISOGYNY). Then you turn around and expect us to believe that you know that a baby DOES reside in the womb, even though, basically, not only have you NOT provided evidence for it, but you’ve provided evidence AGAINST it, and just now, at THAT.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            No doubt he’d learn something from that, but even if he did who’d date some1 that off the wall?

          • cjvg

            That is just about the most ignorant statement ever made.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Heres an idea for you since you find it so difficult thinking on your own: Go protest serial killers in prison, or some neo-nazi groups who advocate murder.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            If abortion is murder, you should have no problem linking me to a case in which a woman was tried and convicted of murder for having an abortion. I will wait.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Holding my breath……..

            Turning blue…….

            GASP….Drat too late but still waiting.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            It cribs its comments from antichoice websites. And it even does cut-paste badly. We will be waiting a long long time.

          • colleen2

            we do not promote “murdering babies”. We promote the idea that women are something more than breeding livestock and that women also have freedom of religion and freedom of conscience.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            I’ve noticed he conviently ignores contraception even though its a very sensible option.

          • fiona64

            If you know anyone who is murdering babies, contact your local law enforcement agency. Infanticide is a crime!

          • goatini

            All babies, ever, have already been born.

            Zygotes, blastocysts, embryos, and fetuses are NOT “babies”.

            And the only “womb” that is any of YOUR personal concern is YOUR OWN. So, “Scot”, I guess that leaves YOU with no skin in the game. Bye.

          • Scot Brandon

            Wrong! You only hear mothers who want to murder their babies calling them “Zygotes, blastocysts, embryos, and fetuses”.

          • goatini

            You’re entitled to your opinion, as misogynistic and vicious as it is, but you are NOT entitled to lie about accurate scientific and technical terminology.

            Zygotes, blastocysts, embryos and fetuses are NOT “babies”, as the prerequisite for a baby to exist is for it to have been BORN.

            And women become mothers at that same event in which fetuses become infants – at BIRTH.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Nor should he be allowed to harass anyone over it. No living person is his personal property no matter how grand his delusions.

          • Ella Warnock

            Are those terms accurate descriptors of different stages of development? We should not use these terms, say, even if we’re studying Anatomy and Physiology?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            No. People discussing public health or doing patient care use proper terminology.

            Perverted fruitbats fantasize about “murdering babies.” And enjoy the hell out of murder porn. And then blame their perversion on others.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Those are words which are in medical textbooks, Scot.

          • Scot Brandon

            Enough with the semantics. Everyone knows its murdering babies if it was really about protesting choice, you protesting against the protesters choosing to protest is self refuting. We all know what the argument is really about. Your trying to say it’s not a baby, I disagree. It is never okay to kill a baby even if it’s in the womb.

          • Jennifer Starr

            I’m sorry you have such a problem with accurate medical terminology. Perhaps you need to get some help for that.

          • goatini

            No “babies” in any “wombs”. Uterine products of conception are zygote, blastocyst, embryo and fetus.

            All babies, ever, have already been born, and if you are aware of any babies being harmed, you should contact your local law enforcement immediately.

          • Arekushieru

            You’re trying to say it is a baby. I disagree. Yeah, that’s pretty much how your arguments have gone, with NO fucking evidence to back them up, unlike what WE have provided YOU. But, still, why is it that only YOU, the MALE, have the right to an opinion?

            Seriously, we protest against the protesters because it IS about choice, asshole. You can’t be PRO-choice if you support those who are ANTI-choice. The logic really IS that fucking simple.

          • colleen2

            I am sorry that the women you hang with are so ignorant.

          • Scot Brandon

            I’m sorry you hang out with selfish people that would murder babies so they are not inconvenienced.

          • colleen2

            I am sorry you treat women like garbage.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            I can’t imagine any women who’d lower themselves to hang out with such a blatant nutcase.

          • cjvg

            And you hear the doctors and nurses who provide treatment, delivery, abortion and contraceptive services call them zygotes, blastocysts, embryos, and fetuses depending on the gestational age!
            These medical professionals even (gasp) use these terms to describe “them” while doing their patient notes.

            No obstetrician calls a 2 week pregnancy “the baby” in their files!!!
            Really the only one who is a completely immoral idiot with their terminology is YOU!

            Using dishonest, misleading and patently false descriptions in order to conflagrate the image of actual babies with a pregnancy termination is about as inane as you can get
            Obviously your arguments for an anti-choice position is so weak that you have to resort to lies!

          • Scot Brandon

            Cjvg said //Really the only one who is a completely immoral idiot with their terminology is YOU!//

            Ad hominem don’t win arguments they just show you don’t have one. Assuming my stupidity is much easier to addressing the actual points. Because your argument is based on semantics it is a weak one because the baby in the womb is valued by expecting parents who want their children, but by those who want to destroy that life because of a hardship or whatever they try to take that value away.

            If it is a baby in the womb, which it is, no argument of semantics is going to take that fact away. With the technology we have today the old arguments that babies can’t feel pain and are just blobs of tissues are gone.

            Now I can understand because you have no logical arguments to refute this my stupidity will be assumed my grammar and sentence construction will be attacked, but the points will be ignored like they have been.

          • goatini

            No one is “ignoring” your lies. We are actively calling them out as deliberate deceptions and intentional malicious misinformation.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Snot, when you behave in an idiotic manner deliberately then you’ll be called an idiot. Not really that difficult to understand except for you.

          • jejune

            Ad hominem don’t win arguments they just show you don’t have one.
            Assuming my stupidity is much easier to addressing the actual points.

            You’re an ignorant misogynist asshole.

            Oh, and a fetus isn’t a baby.

          • cjvg

            So obstetricians who use the correct terminology in their files and patient notes are all secretly hoping that the “babies” their patients are expecting will die?!
            That would surely put a dent in their employment prospects!

            How low can you go?!
            Do not take that as a challenge to get even more ridiculous in your supposed “arguments”, I think you might have hit bottom here already!

            So medical professionals who almost exclusively use the correct terminology are all secretly hoping for massive “baby” deaths if we are to follow your reasoning!

          • Arekushieru

            Wrong, calling someone what they are is simply truth, and does nothing to support or refute someone’s position.

            Nope, we’ve shown you SEVERAL times why YOU’RE arguments are based on semantics. We’re still waiting for the evidence from you to prove the same on our end. But we won’t hold our breath.

            ANTI-choice want to take the value of EITHER the woman OR the fetus away. If you’re Pro-Life, you want to take away the value of the woman. If you’re Pro-Abortion (which is JUST as anti-choice as YOU), you want to take away the value of the fetus. And mostly BECAUSE you want to decide rights based on value, in this ONE SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCE. PRO-choice wants everyone to retain their value, because we DON’T want rights merely decided by value, as in ALL other circumstances. We simply want INDIVIDUAL women to be able to determine who uses their body and when and how it is used, via ongoing, explicit and INFORMED consent, just as any OTHER individual from any OTHER group may do. DERP.

            So, obviously, you value yourself more than your own mother. (And you wonder why we call you a misogynistic asshole?) After all, if your fetal self had just as much value as a woman, that obviously means a woman has very little value when compared to a man, but that, just by growing up, you will have naturally had to accumulate more value than a woman. So, just because you ALSO grew up into a man, you are saying your own value is now QUADRUPLE that of your own mother’s. See what happens when you assign equal value to a fetus, you insulting TWIT? Not only that, you PROVE our OWN arguments against you. WHOOPS?

            The old arguments that FETUSES can feel pain and aren’t just blobs of tissue are gone, you mean…. OOOOOPSS.

            We have BEEN making logical arguments. You just don’t have the capacity to recognize them. Now, remember what I said about calling a spade a spade? YUP.

          • Arekushieru

            And some women who do want babies call them fetuses, or parasites. Like my mother and several other women I know. OOOOOPPPPSSSS!

          • Scot Brandon

            That is what parasites would try to call there babies. But mothers who love children would hate anyone that tries to hurt them.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Could you up the hysteria just a notch? It’s almost there, but not nearly incoherent enough to be entertaining.

          • goatini

            Fetuses are NOT “babies”, because all babies, ever, have already been born.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Snot himself is a parasite leeching off the female gender.

          • Arekushieru

            So, you’re calling MY mother a parasite, because she called me and my brother a parasite and fetus? Wow. You are SO fucking ignorant. But, you see, my Pro-Life aunt absolutely LOATHES her children. Hmm. Wonder how THAT could happen? Because calling something what it IS has NOTHING to do with whether someone loves them or NOT? DERP.

            Btw, my mother loves BOTH my brother and I. But she also had an abortion. After me and before my brother. Guess what? If my mother had NOT had an abortion, my brother wouldn’t be here. So, now, are you going to WILLINGLY admit that you hate my brother, because the FETUS my mother aborted is more important than HE is? Can’t have it both ways, fuckwad.

          • fiona64

            What is it with the anti-choice and their dumb-assed ignorance about medical terminology?

          • Scot Brandon

            Has nothing to do with anti choice. If it did you wouldn’t care about people choosing to protest your view is self refuting.

          • Jennifer Starr

            I’m beginning to think you just throw random words together without any idea of what they actually mean.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Theres computer software for this, I remember writing one from an article in an SciFi magazine about Star trek technobabble back in the 80’s

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Snot I’d go farther than Fiona in saying your entirely ignorant, though your still an ASS to boot.

          • fiona64

            Could you parse this nonsense into English, please?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Yes. It is okay to kill a fetus in the womb.

            In fertility treatment, a doctor may perform selective reduction of already implanted embryos.

            Jewish law not only permits, but in some circumstances requires abortion. Where the mother’s life is in jeopardy because of the unborn child, abortion is mandatory.

            An unborn child has the status of “potential human life” until the majority of the body has emerged from the mother. Potential human life is valuable, and may not be terminated casually, but it does not have as much value as a life in existence. The Talmud makes no bones about this: it says quite bluntly that if the fetus threatens the life of the mother, you cut it up within her body and remove it limb by limb if necessary, because its life is not as valuable as hers. But once the greater part of the body has emerged, you cannot take its life to save the mother’s, because you cannot choose between one human life and another. -Judaism 101

          • Scot Brandon

            Well don’t forget what God said in the Torah.

            “When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman’s husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life, (Exodus 21:22-23 ESV)

            We have those same sort of laws when a baby is killed in the womb by a drunk driver even if she is on the way to the abortuary and the drunk driver was the abortion provider it would be a felony charge of vehicular manslaughter and injury to a child, because the life is recognized as human life and important. Those blinded by their wicked desires to murder babies because of inconvenience masquerading it as “choice” might not see the double standards but they are obvious.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You are an uneducated yahoo. Don’t mess with me you childless heartless freak.
            Your scripture is just one instance in which the Bible expresses the idea that a fetus has Little to no value. Jehovah orders abortion as a tool of genocidal war in Hosea. And there is an abortion in the Bible performed according to Mosaic law because a husband is jealous. The proof being the aborted fetus.

          • Scot Brandon

            You made some claims why not show the scripture address?

            //You are an uneducated yahoo. Don’t mess with me, you childless heartless freak.//

            Ad hominens don’t win arguments. The scripture I provided shows life for life if the baby died through assault there was a life sentence. If it came out induced labor and it lived their was a fine.

            When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman’s husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life, (Exodus 21:22-23 ESV)

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You get more when you get the scriptural exegesis of the passage you quoted correct. I have no time for people who pretend to know what they are talking about – and still want to tell me what to do with my pudenda and call me names. You are an ignorant yahoo. You may have some scholarly abilities. Perhaps we will find that out.

          • fiona64

            I really do grow tired of explaining that verse over and over and over and over. People with their little “Good News” edition Bibles, that over-simplify everything, make the scholar in me want to scream and tear out my hair.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Snot people here are telling you of the real world, not a 2000 yr old fantasy novel thats been rewritten many times to deliberately distort what originally happened.

          • fiona64

            The scripture I provided shows life for life if the baby died through assault there was a life sentence.

            Wrong answer, dumbass. It was only life for life if the *woman* died. Don’t pretend you read Hebrew; it’s quite apparent that you don’t. Get a better/more accurate translation (like the Douay-Rheims) if you don’t read Hebrew; you might just learn something.

            Exodus 21:23

            Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

            23 But if her death ensue thereupon, he shall render life for life.

            See those words in bold, Scotty? *The woman* is the important factor here, not the fetus.

          • Arekushieru

            That scripture is also an example of a FORCED miscarriage. That means something just as ANTI-choice as YOU.

          • cjvg

            Your god routinely advocated ripping children from the womb, and clearly states that when you cause a miscarriage you would have to pay the woman’s husband a fine, but when you permanently harm the woman the husband is allowed to demand an eye for an eye. IE the woman is a life, the miscarriage is an economic damage done to the husband.

            Genesis 38 the story of Tamar: She was being put to death until she proofed that Judea was the father and since he was her husband he could not go through with the sentence since she did not conceive the child in “sin” In other words your teaching story teaches that, yes this woman is considered righteous and she and her unborn will live. However if she was found not to be righteous, she and her unborn would have been put to death.

          • Scot Brandon

            Tamar was going to be put to death by Judah who was a corrupt wicked man that had also sold his brother into slavery instead of just killing him so he could make some money.

            Read the previous chapter Genesis 37. God protected Tamar and her baby ultimately from that wicked plan (Genesis 38) Jesus was a descended of Judah who later repented and followed God evidenced by the story in the following chapter 44 where he was willing to give up his life to save his his brother.

            There we civil laws in those days that called for capital punishment There are civil laws in our days that also call for capital punishment. They used stones and fires we use lethal injections, and electric chairs.

          • fiona64

            Interesting that you bring up capital punishment, Scotty.

            I’ve noticed that a good many anti-choicers are a-okay with capital punishment. I’m not sure how that squares with being “pro-life,” but that’s a digression.

            What punishment should a woman receive for having an abortion, Scotty?

          • cjvg

            God did not protect anyone, Tamar herself made sure that she was protected by ensuring that she was impregnated by her husband (Judah) and having a token to proof that it was him who had lain with her and gotten her pregnant.
            No god came to rescue her!

            PS Tamar was the widow of Judah’s brother and forced to marry her upon his brothers death!

            Also you conveniently, but not surprisingly, ignore that god only saw the life of the woman as an offense that demanded the taking of life and that the miscarriage could be made good by (financial) compensation!

          • Arekushieru

            Nope. YOU’RE the one who doesn’t see YOUR double standards. After all, since rape can happen to BOTH men and women, location determines whether one can kill them or not and you don’t see antis protesting THAT. But since pregnancy can only happen to those with FEMALE ORGANS, location becomes irrelevant, which is not surprising since a ‘location’ is all a woman IS to people like you.

            The woman’s pregnancy was NOT ended in the manner she wished (AGAIN we see that you just view a woman as an incubator/location. So fucking sick). Which is why there may be a charge of double homicide, which does not equal MURDER, btw.

            Pregnancy, especially FORCED gestation, is not a mere inconvenience. If it WERE, rape would just be a mere walk in the park. It’s so fucking sad how you people view rape and women.

            Finally, choice means there are TWO options. In the case of Pro-Choice, the options are terminate OR complete a pregnancy. However, just like Hitler and the slave-owners of yore, you antis masquerade slavery as ‘life’.

          • fiona64

            Um, sweetie? The second verse has to do with the *woman’s* death. You need a better translation. I recommend the Douay-Rheims.

            And you’re equally ignorant of fetal homicide laws, obviously; they only attach as special circumstances … again, when the *woman* is harmed.

            Like many of your ilk, you ignore the woman in the picture? Why is that?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Because it is a sexually sick pervert troll with an axe to grind. We are not its whetstone.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Because they don’t see the woman as a full human being–merely a container for the all-blessed fetus.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Methinks your ideas of whats legal comes from watching too much WWE. In other words: Paul Hayman is NOT a real lawyer, DUH!

          • jejune

            The Torah did not consider a fetus to be viable until 40 days for boys, 80 days for girls

            Until then it was just a piece of meat

            And even after the 80 days, it was considered PROPERTY, of the husband

      • expect_resistance

        Women who are being stalked and harassed by forced-birthers are victims.

        • Scot Brandon

          Babies being murdered are the real victims and the mothers and fathers who buy into the lies that they aren’t killing a baby.

          • goatini

            No babies are ever harmed in any way whatsoever during a safe, legal pregnancy termination.

            All babies, ever, have already been born.

            And no matter how many times you repeat your lies, it doesn’t make them facts.

          • Scot Brandon

            /And no matter how many times you repeat your lies, it doesn’t make them facts./

            And why killing a baby in the womb or out is murder, because it is a baby.

          • expect_resistance

            Women’s uteruses are not public property. Stay the fuck out of them.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Excellent way of putting it! definately 1 of those “wish I’d thought of that” things.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Wrong. A fetus can be killed in the womb for any number of reasons at whatever stage of its “life” if its existence will kill its host, the pregnant woman. That is not only legal, it is also moral.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            There is no baby until I make out of my blood, flesh and pain. Given that an abortion is 14 times safer than giving birth, I will decide when and if I give birth. Not you.

          • Arekushieru

            Nope. If that were true, then killing a person whether they are inside or outside of me would be murder. It’s not. Because it DOES depend on whether they are inside me or not. Why are antis so fucking ignorant?

          • fiona64

            I have an awfully hard time parsing your posts into English (which is disturbing, since I’m a native English speaker). However, I’ll have a go at this one.

            Murder is the unlawful (illegal) taking of a person’s life with malice aforethought.

            Abortion is a legal medical procedure … so your canard fails on that definition alone, since that which is legal cannot also be unlawful. But then there’s the second failure: a zygote/embryo/fetus (and the majority of abortions take place during the embryonic phase, just to be clear) is not a *person.* So your definition fails again.

            You really need to go back to school, Scotty.

          • Arekushieru

            And whether a fetus is a baby or not is irrelevant to whether or not a woman has the right to choose to terminate a pregnancy. After all, INDISPUTABLE babies do not get the right that you want to grant to fetuses. SO fucking sorry.

          • Arekushieru

            If fetuses are the victims, then why is pregnancy the second leading cause of death for women, WORLDWIDE?? If fetuses are the victims, then why do they suppress the WOMAN’S immune system? If fetuses are the victims, then why is it that they graft themselves to an organ that was originally meant to protect eutherian mammals from PARASITES??? If fetuses are the victims, then why do hemochorial mammals menstruate to prepare their uterine lining for the extremely invasive implantation of the fetal placenta? OOOPS.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Snot here probably still believes Nazi’s were victims too.

          • jejune

            A fetus isn’t a baby you twit.

          • cjvg

            So a “baby” who kills its mother through birth or pregnancy complications will be held responsible for the murder of the woman ?!
            Obviously the woman was clearly a human being and that fetus willfully and deliberately murdered a human by its continued presence in her body

          • Arekushieru

            PRECISELY. They all want fetuses to be PERSONS. But, if fetuses are persons, equal in value to all BORN persons, then, rightly, all the inherent traits of BORN persons should accrue to them, as well. Namely, intent, sapience, sentience, thoughts, etc….

          • P. McCoy

            You are a DOMESTIC TERRORIST and threatening women’s civil rights. Arguing with you is useless you need solitary confinement in a Federal Prison or at Gitmo. Any organizations you ally with should be seen as homegrown terrorist cells android dealt with accordingly.

      • Amanda Kazarian

        You know some of us go to women’s health clinics for check ups. Mind blowing I know.

      • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

        Just another forded birther pervert enjoying his fantasy of murdering babies. Nickel a dozen.

      • Arekushieru

        Those that meet resistance on *THEIR* way to exercise their full human rights to bodily autonomy, you mean? Then, yeah, the former are the victims. WHOOPS!

  • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

    Oh stop with the buffer zone crap. Stalking and harassing anybody is a crime. All this chanting, singing, stalking, shaming, bullying is illegal entirely in Canada. And it needs to be illegal here too. How many more arsons, maimings and murders will these American terrorists have to commit before we beat their asses?

  • expect_resistance

    No, not a compromise. Your presence is unwanted and unwelcome.

  • R h

    Last I checked..everyone is entitled to their own path of life..since when have anyone came forth to writing the bible?? And for those who believe more in science..since when have anyone came forth w proof of why anything is what it is..those simple minded beings that shun others for what they believe is not the right way..put up a mirror and see who’s really living and controlling ur life cause obv it’s not u..u all discuss me..spend more time saving what’s here and less time on what’s not..this is MY choice to submit this..do something