Legal Wrap: Values Voter Summit Highlights GOP Obsession With Contraception


This Week in Sex is a weekly summary of news and research related to sexual behavior, sexuality education, contraception, STIs, and more.

Adele Stan reports from the Values Voter Summit, where the federal government shutdown and looming default are no big deal so long as conservatives can end the birth control benefit in health-care reform. Case in point: While twiddling their thumbs over the shutdown, Republicans in the House proposed the “Abortion Insurance Disclosure Act“—because that’ll get the government up and running.

In her excellent coverage of the summit, Stan also discusses how right-wing superstars like Sen. Ted Cruz and Dr. Ben Carson thrilled attendees with some good old fashioned misogyny.

The Department of Justice wants a federal appeals court to overturn an earlier ruling that a letter from notorious anti-abortion extremist Angel Dillard to Dr. Mila Means was constitutionally protected. In the letter, Dillard promises that should Means begin offering abortions in Wichita, Kansas, it would only be a matter of time before Means found explosives under her car. Earlier this year a federal judge ruled the letter wasn’t a “true threat” and was, therefore, protected by the First Amendment.

The Supreme Court heard arguments last week in McCutcheon v. Federal Election Commission, a case that looks to overturn individual contribution limits to political candidates. The case has been described as Citizens United 2.0, and I explain here how a ruling undoing those individual limits spells bad news for reproductive health care.

The New Mexico attorney general’s office has weighed in on a proposed 20-week abortion ban in the city of Albuquerque, saying any ban would be “unconstitutional and unenforceable.” Though we all know that’s never stopped anti-abortion activists before.

A judge ruled that the Falls Church Healthcare Center can move forward with its legal challenge to Virginia’s targeted regulation of abortion providers (TRAP) law, which threatens to close clinics in the state.

That wasn’t the only loss for Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli. Last week, the Supreme Court declined to take up his appeal of a ruling that declared the state’s anti-sodomy law unconstitutional.

A federal court dismissed a legal challenge by civil rights groups to a 2011 Arizona law that makes it a felony for a doctor to knowingly perform an abortion based on the sex or race of a fetus, holding the groups lacked standing to challenge the law.

In Ohio, the American Civil Liberties Union filed a lawsuit challenging three anti-abortion provisions attached to the state’s 2014 state budget on the grounds they violate the Ohio Constitution’s “single-subject” rule.

Iowa regulators aren’t letting a pending lawsuit get in the way of their plans to thwart access to medical abortion for thousands of rural Iowans.

Elsewhere, in Texas, an anti-abortion group has sued a retired state court judge after he ordered a 15-year-old girl to return to her grandmother’s home, where a convicted sex offender was living. The ruling was in connection with a custody dispute with the teen. At the time the girl was pregnant and, claimed the girl, the grandmother and her boyfriend were trying to force her to have an abortion. Six months after the ruling, the sex offender shot and killed the girl’s grandmother and sexually assaulted the girl. The lawsuit seeks unspecified damages from the judge.

Home Depot faces a lawsuit after claims surfaced the home improvement retail giant was targeting gay employees for firing because they are “too expensive” to insure.

And on a lighter note: Hooray, California! Thanks to tireless work by activists and some lawmakers, the state bucked the national trend with not one but two new laws designed to expand access to abortion care.

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  • Jennifer Starr

    Concern troll is concerned–yawn.

    • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

      Not sure why you object; we are FOR contraception, just the article brought more than that with it, a few items that could have been left off the table in the interest of generating consensus, which is our primary goal. We firmly believe consensus for contraception is possible, but not when positions that smell pro-abortion are championed.

      We are concerned the 30/hr/wk exemption may “create” more part-time employment. We do not propose the fed pay for anything but include contraception in education. We care less who pays for it than attacking the statistic that 95% of all unintended pregnancies are attributable to non or inconsistent use contraceptives. We think it makes both economic and social sense, but frankly most contraception is cheaper than many cell phone or cable monthlies, so we also understand the question, is it not oft consumer choice?

      • Jennifer Starr

        I’m for freely available contraception and for educating people on contraceptives too, but all contraception does have a failure rate including tubal ligation and vasectomies. I don’t think an employee should be forced to shell out extra because he or she happens to have an employer who feels like he needs to butt into the sex lives of employees because of so-called ‘conscience’. And no one here is pro-abortion. We are pro-choice.

        • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

          So we are talking about the less than 5% of unintended pregnancies resulting where contraception is consistently used, but failed?

          Then surely you also find it objectionable to grant abortion based solely on gender?

          • Jennifer Starr

            In the first place, I don’t think that anyone else’s pregnancy and their reasons for not wishing to be pregnant are any of my concern. Most abortions take place in the first trimester–well before gender can be determined. And secondly,while Liar Rose and other ‘pro-lifers’ have made a big deal about it, sex-selection abortion is not actually a widespread problem in US society. But if you really do want to get rid of it, you need to address the underlying cultural issues that causes a society to value boys over girls ,

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            Do we open the door on vaginal circumcision as well? Some cultures practice this today, too. Where does it end?

            The question is, could we reach consensus with a few concessions from both sides on these seemingly extreme issues? Or do we continue to let polarization on the 5% preclude focus and progress on the 95%?

          • HeilMary1

            The culprit polarizers here are spoiled pedophile priests and their suicidal brood mares.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            So that is perhaps the 5%. Can at least the 95% come together?

            The 5% feeds on the fact that the rest don’t agree either – so do we not perpetuate the problem and let them have their way simply because we are stuck on minority issues and cannot see the common ground that is staring us in the face?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Mary was the victim of horrific physical and spiritual abuse, largely due to her Roman Catholic upbringing. This is where she is coming from.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            we wish her well ;)

          • HeilMary1

            Catholic extremists take no prisoners. WWII was a good example. Read up on the Catholic Nazi Ustasha Inquisition Jasenovac death camps run by Catholic clergy.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            if that was true you wouldn’t be shoving your virulent crap in her face. UGH!

          • fiona64

            Who are you, frigging Queen Victoria? What the hell is up with this “we” thing?

            You are one person. Stop the bullshit.

          • HeilMary1

            That 5% is probably 25%, and it controls the GOP and MSM.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            75% would still be ok, no?

          • colleen2

            Paul Bradford was also addicted to manspaining with delusional invented statistics.

          • BJ Survivor

            OMG, am I glad that pompous misogynist is gone. What a piece of work!

          • Arekushieru

            Hopefully you’re gone, now, because I am seriously fed up with your attribution ‘errors’. With so many, after all, you DO have to at least WONDER if they’re deliberate. But, if you’re not, no, those people are NOT the minority. This passive-aggressive typecasting of Pro-Lifers and/or Catholics as the minority is complete bullshit. More like THEY’RE the 95%, IF anything.

          • L-dan

            If you’re considering bans on gender selection to be a concession that would allow folks to come together, you’re sadly mistaken on a few counts.

            First, just no. The anti-choice side of the debate has shown again and again that each such gain is only a foothold to push for more. Anyone burned multiple times by this tactic would be stupid to fall for it again.

            Second: How, precisely is one to determine that a given abortion is requested for the purposes of sex-selection without being pointlessly intrusive? And how would one protect doctors and women from those who would maliciously bring charges of a given abortion being for such purposes? It’s a mess waiting to happen.

            Finally: And what concessions might we expect from the other side? We roll over on this one and you’ll quit being boneheads regarding sex education? I kind of doubt that. Particularly since the ‘sides’ are not exactly monolithic hive minds that could make those sorts of trade-offs.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            We found a lot of consistency among Catholics regarding contraception, more so as time progressed (we developed the dialogue over three years…).
            Some were not-ready newlyweds. Some were looking to space pregnancies themselves. Some women had their families but found their guys still cute. It was interesting stuff. Their biggest issue is actually not wanting to promote premarital sex and they feel there
            is a link, but this seems to be fading and we believe there is room on this.

            Currently, we get more resistance from pro-choice hardliners. As you say, people are concerned about making concessions, fearing the “other side” will then push for more.

            How do we move beyond this stalemate?

          • L-dan

            I have never seen sex ed ‘promote’ premarital sex. As in saying, ‘you should totally have sex before you’re married.’

            I think sex ed should promote sex being something one does when they feel ready for it. It should provide the tools to even have an idea of when that is, since for most people it has nothing to do with a wedding day. It should provide lessons about consent and the tools to communicate that many are lacking. All that along with factual information about reproduction, sex, and contraception.

            Things is should not do: teach gender essentialist roles, stigmatize the already sexually active or those of any sexual orientation or gender, and offer incorrect information.

            If parents want to instill the “don’t have sex until you’re married” message, I really think that’s their job, not the job of public education which has a broader public health responsibility.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            Agree wholeheartedly, and found even Catholics moving toward this – we are a secular society, right?

            At the same time, we have been approached by groups willing to support pro-plan, but ask us to promote how great and fun having sex is…

          • L-dan

            As in having materials that include the information that sex is fun and pleasurable? Because really? Telling kids it isn’t is pretty much ruining ones credibility.

            I have never seen a program that’s all “sex is great, have some as soon as you can.” So much as “sex can be great, but there’s all sorts of stuff you need to know about it, and yourself, before it’s likely to be.”

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            Credible or not, what we teach our kids is our business, but some groups
            are quite open, others find it offensive, we try to be understanding, check out
            some facebook groups, can’t name them all here, easy to find, ever hear of bang
            with friends?

          • L-dan

            Bang with friends hardly puts itself forward as an educational organization.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            No, but they are out there, and kids are in facebook, and everything on
            the internet is knowledge at this point, especially when it is more present
            than other unfortunately not so loud voices trying to educate.

          • cjvg

            What you teach your kids is your business, and no one is allowed to interfere.
            What you allow schools to offer to teach our kids is apparently your business to, and the reproductive choices an adult woman makes are also your business !

            Yeah, so not working for me.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            “what we teach our kids is our business” = what each
            parent teaches their own child is their own business.

            sorry, the other blogger understood what was meant…

          • colleen2

            cjvg understood what you meant also. You just don’t like it when she speak the truth.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            then the riddle remains a riddle
            still not sure what works and doesn’t

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Yet you are unwilling to really understand anything as it shows the foolish arrogance of what you say.

          • cjvg

            Why should I have to compromise on my reproductive choices that affect my physical, financial, social and mental health.
            None on my choices made in my personal live affect you in any way, you do not even know my name.

            So tell me why should I be forced into compromising my choices for you?! What gives you the right to determine what choices I should be allowed to have were my health, financial or social situation is involved?

            It is always soooo easy to force others to live with decisions that you will NEVER feel the consequences off.
            Who made you god and said you had the right to claim ownership of me?!

            There is no compromising my right to the ownership of me, it is not the pro-CHOICE side that is trying to control people, that is all you.
            Regardless of how you desperately you are trying to make your anti-choice opposition look like they are reasonable and reaching out, I will never hand over the right to make my own choices.

            There must never be a compromise on who has the right to make to make far reaching personal decisions for a (legally) adult woman.
            The fact that you feel it is even acceptable to ask for these rights is extremely disturbing.

            May I now usurp the right to decide if you will have a vasectomy and decide that you are only allowed one child?!
            Why not, I have just as much information about your physical, emotional, financial and social situation as you have about any other woman who needs an abortion or contraception

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            sorry to have offended you, is not the intent,
            only that folks use contraception, that is the only goal.

          • colleen2

            you appear to want to make abortion illegal.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            not at all the intent, please do not read what is not there

          • colleen2

            you don’t want to make abortion illegal?

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Others using contraception is none of your business, to do otherwise is akin to fascism.

          • cjvg

            Promoting contraception use is not the problem.
            Insisting that I must give up my right to make some of my other very personal far reaching decisions concerning my reproduction and my bodily integrity, for the “right” to be allowed to chose to use birth control is most definitely a big problem!

            That is NOT a compromise.
            You usurp my rights to make any and all decisions concern my health, my reproduction and the ownership of my body, you then magnanimously hand some back but continue to withhold others and call that a compromise?!

            What did you compromise, that you lost a 100% say over my personal reproductive choices for a partial say?!
            What did you give up? Something you never should have in the first place!

            Looks like the only one who is forced into compromising are women who you do not know, and will never know, and do not care to know.
            However you still want to determine what options and choices these women can have concerning their reproduction, which is one of the most intimate and far reaching decisions they will make in their live!

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            Insisting… forcing… usurping…
            maybe you need to have a firm chat with whomever is trying to push you around like that?

            and kindly refrain from trying to place words into my comments that I did not write; there is no edit function here; pls read what has been written

          • Jennifer Starr

            What cjvg is saying, is that women’s reproductive rights are not on the table for negotiation and compromise. Period.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            She can say what ever she wants, but she and kindly all others should
            please take care to voice their opinions as such and not put words or intent
            into my comments that is neither there nor implied.

          • Jennifer Starr

            So you agree that women’s reproductive rights should never be up for negotiation and compromise, not even in the interest of so-called ‘common ground’. Correct?

          • fiona64

            You and the voices in your head need to butt out of other people’s business … including demanding how they post to you on the internet.

          • fiona64

            here is no edit function here

            Yeah, actually, there is. In fact, every single one of your posts will have an edit option, right next to “reply” and “share,” below it.

          • colleen2

            WE ARE reading what has been written. We’re also filling in the bits you deliberately left out and are defensively refusing to address. Why should we ‘help’ you lie about and discredit Planned Parenthood?

          • BJ Survivor

            There must never be a compromise on who has the right to make to make far reaching personal decisions for a (legally) adult woman. The fact that you feel it is even acceptable to ask for these rights is extremely disturbing.

            Amen, sister! If it’s “extremist” to emphatically believe that women are persons and, as such, have every right to make their own life and medical decisions, according to their own consciences, even if doing so will make the panty-sniffers cry, then I’m guilty as charged!

          • cjvg

            It just ticks me of to no end that these anti-choice factions believe they are “compromising” when they “allow” women the choice to use birth control!

            What the hell are they thinking, they illegally are trying to usurp the right to control my reproductive choices and then expect me to be grateful and admire their willingness to “compromise when they are giving some of the choices that are mine to begin with back.
            I just have no words for the rage I feel when I read this, probably more so then against those that just want to take away all our bodily sanctity.

            At least they do not expect us to be grateful for their crap.
            Sick!

          • HeilMary1

            What about disfigured spinsters like me who will never get a marriage proposal? We have the same reproductive healthcare rights as playboy and adulterous GOP bullies and priests.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            possibly even more rights…
            also, love is not just for the magazine cover-girls, every pot has a
            cover, so good luck to you.

          • HeilMary1

            GOP war profiteering, pollution pushing and secret drug trafficking completely stole all the old pot lids. And in case you hadn’t noticed, all men with any useful eyesight have looks standards. They now get their teen brides from forced-birth Catholic poverty pits.

          • colleen2

            “How do we move beyond this stalemate?”

            I suggest you stop referring to yourself as ‘we’ and find another blog. This isn’t a place to spam your right wing trash.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            you are happy with America today?
            harmony seekers are right wing trash?

          • colleen2

            I am unhappy with right wing trash. Please find another blog

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            your not seeking harmony, what your dreaming of is a religious dictatorship where self determination and individuality would be crimes against the state.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Its not a stalemate, its you stupidly believing you can dictate peoples lives when its nunyaz biznit.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            if you were really concerned about extreme abused based on gender you’d stop supporting & participating in them.

          • fiona64

            One day, an anti-choicer will present an “argument” that is not an asinine straw man … and I will do two things: alert the media, and serve cake.

          • colleen2

            When someone says:

            if you really do want to get rid of it, you need to address the
            underlying cultural issues that causes a society to value boys over
            girls

            It’s fundamentally dishonest and vomit producing manipulative to respond with :

            Do we open the door on vaginal circumcision as well?”

            I haven’t seen this degree of shameless attempts at emotional manipulate an audience since the last time Paul Bradford posted here. Overt and shameless manipulation of vulnerable people was his forte.

          • HeilMary1

            Many breast and face cancers in mothers are triggered by female fetuses. And many catastrophic genetic syndromes are gender-related. Hemophilia primarily afflicts male children.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            Tragic cases, just googled it and maybe this is called: Female pseudohermaphroditism caused by maternal congenital adrenal hyperplasia? Some research on it done by the Osaka University in Japan.
            But are we not in the 0.00x% range here?

          • HeilMary1

            There is a very high correlation between the female gender of the fetus and mothers who contract cancer during or shortly after they give birth. I know many such cancer victims.

          • colleen2

            Who knows? Probably a higher number than the number of babies born in the US whose parents want to “female circumcise” them.

          • L-dan

            Since there are very few of those in the U.S. we actually don’t concern ourselves with it. Addressing the root cause of most gender selective abortion–societal attitudes toward women–makes a lot more sense than attempting to police abortions.

            Likewise, contraception is health care and should be provided in plans as such. Again, it’s stupid to police who is using it primarily as contraception vs. for other health reasons (even if I granted that using it as contraception actually warranted a conscience exclusion).

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            Agree, the exceptions do not dictate the rule.
            Agree, policing is ridiculous.

            Something to ponder?: Even some countries with national health
            care distinguish among covered contraception. In Germany, the doc visits are covered as health care, but the actual pill prescription or IUD to be inserted is paid out-of-pocket. Similarly, health care pays for alcoholic treatment, but not vodka. This may be a good compromise?

          • Jennifer Starr

            I don’t know if you realize, but typically you don’t treat alcoholism with booze.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            Agree
            but that is unfortunately not what my neighbor says…
            He buys booze with his social support, calls it his medicine
            and insists he is entitled to it.

          • Jennifer Starr

            And he’s probably got a nicely pickled liver to go with that, too. But it’s not covered under any healthcare plan.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            Yes it is, and will be now widespread, recall no precondition exclusions (some states had this long ago) and now Medicaid expansion.

          • Jennifer Starr

            I was actually talking about the booze. He might think it’s his medicine, but a doctor would disagree.

          • colleen2

            your republican anecdotes do not add to the discussion.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            y’know you should lay off those stories of yours, they like you are utterly absurd. These 2 are so incoherent their not even made up of sentences but rather random words strung together.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Social support isn’t what we call it in this country. Are you actually American?

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            yes, I am a born and bred American, and actually kind of a stickler for
            the language

            welfare is a word with two nearly contradictory definitions and has taken on a negative connotation over the years at least in the parts of the country I know

            just as pregnancy termination and not otherwise, and contraception instead of the broader term birth control, social support seems a more encompassing and non-derogatory expression for a positive, productive dialogue. Would you not agree? it’s not so easy to find precise and non-alienating terminology for passionate discussion…

          • Jennifer Starr

            Social support is what it’s called in Germany–I find it interesting, considering that at least two fans of your page (and I’m assuming group members?) are from Berlin.

          • Jennifer Starr

            I suspect that your alcoholic neighbor is about as fictional as your focus groups.

          • Jennifer Starr

            As a matter of fact, your group seems to be primarily composed of three American women who live in Berlin. What’s that about?

          • L-dan

            That is a horrible analogy. It implies contraception causes conditions that require treatment rather than the reverse.

            And no, given the fact that one of the most effective forms of contraception (IUD) is also one of the most expensive, that’s a backwards policy. The fact that Germany apparently embraces it, doesn’t make it less so. Insurers don’t usually balk at including contraception in plans–it’s cheaper than pregnancy.

            I will never agree that allowing employers to dictate that insurers only cover the things *they* feel are moral makes sense. Should we have plans that don’t cover heart bypass surgery because a health food chain feels that most such surgeries are due to unhealthy lifestyles, and it would reflect badly on them to encourage that sort of thing?

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            Up to now, employers did not have to provide medical insurance and we are concerned about the possible growth in so-called part-time employment.

            We are just looking for ways to find middle/common ground so people talk to each other again… what do you suggest?

          • L-dan

            A single payer system. But we’re not getting that.

            You realize that what we’re getting *is* the compromise? And that the folks going “no…compromise even more” are starting to get kind of old?

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            The single-payer systems in large countries I know are riddled with
            problems, primarily in that private insurance options on top create a dual-class, with standard payers waiting in lines, even for surgeries.

            We are concerned that in the end, a very small population will actually be served by the ACA, possibly even a smaller group than the Medicaid expansion accommodates – and then let the antagonism really begin… we hope that does not happen ;)

          • L-dan

            And our current system isn’t riddled with problems? We don’t already have dual-class health care and uninsured people waiting in the emergency rooms for care? I can’t really see that as an argument when it’s not even a matter of “they have these things and they’re even worse than what we see.”

            This provides a middle ground between depending on an employer for health care entirely (which screws anyone who has to leave their job due to a major illness, or simply finds themselves between jobs or in one that doesn’t provide health care) and a single payer system.

            Which still doesn’t address the very commonsense idea that, as long as you’re trying to create a standard for health care, it ought to include one of the most common forms of preventative care there is.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            don’t disagree
            and we have pointed out the economics of contraception, so it is actually a win-win socially and financially.

            Wonder if single-payer would have actually flown better than the ACA. But this is perhaps what happens when major legislation is passed without any consideration across the aisle and even needed a few bought same-party tickets to get it through. For a very smart President with super rhetoric skills, it could have gone a bit better, no?

          • Jennifer Starr

            Not when you have people elected by hysterical nutcase teabirchers shrieking “OMG!! Socialism! Muslim!” with badly spelled signs. Most of the new Repug congress isn’t actually up there to accomplish anything but obstruction of anything our President tries to do. And they’re willing to dismantle the economy to do it.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            personally I just thought he would start with a few pieces of less-controversial legislation to flex his across-the-aisle agenda. The upfront whammy didn’t seem to me to be good beginner diplomacy, that’s all…

            Now we are so far apart, so polarized, even worse than before. It is downright ugly. What we are doing is not working. Some say this could be quite a lasting antagonism in DC…

            One idea is that an important grass-roots effort may be what we need to break it, from the bottom up.

          • Jennifer Starr

            It was about a year or two in–hardly an upfront whammy.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            the passage or the start?
            we really don’t want to go there, direct politics not the point at pro-plan, rather getting non-politicians on board to go bottom up. And if crowds get smaller, won’t they try a new tune?

          • Jennifer Starr

            It’s a little difficult to do diplomacy when the other side, particularly the teabircher faction, is convinced you’re an evil foreigner, dictator, Muslim antichrist and so forth. I mean you had Republicans backing out of legislation that they had previously supported just because Obama supported it too. You had a Republican majority in their house who stated their goal as making sure that Obama failed. And any Republican that did show sense and try to compromise was labeled a ‘RINO’. Do these sound like people you can be diplomatic with? The Republicans have swung so far from the center that Nixon and Ford would not even recognize their own party, and the much-revered Reagan would be considered a RINO.

          • colleen2

            I am genuinely amused that ‘pro-plan’ considers itself the ‘leader’ of a ‘grass roots movement’ simultaneously refusing to acknowledge that you want to make abortion illegal.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            please do not read what is not there

          • colleen2

            “One idea is that an important grass-roots effort may be what we need to break it, from the bottom up.”

            Please stop lying and spamming.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            no lies, no spam, just plain honesty, don’t see much around these days, so maybe difficult to decipher?

          • colleen2

            Noi difficult at all. We all understand what it means when a hack decides to float the demonstrable lie that effective birth control is socially unpopular and that those who oppose effective contraception are a huge force in American politics.

            Folks who would deny women effective contraception, freedom of religion and freedom of conscience are, in fact, a tiny minority of assholes and religious dingbats. They are NOT a huge force in American politics.

            As for the ‘no spam’ that is precisely what you are doing. (see why we keep pointing out that you lie?) You are spamming what is clearly an unpopular and painfully amateurish site.. It is offensive. Please stop.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Nope, just none if it is anywhere around you. You can see the reason why in your own mirror.

          • Jennifer Starr

            So, Mr.(or Ms.) Honesty, what is your position on abortion?

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            pro-plan takes no view on abortion as this would be inconsistent with our goal of speaking to persons of all opinions.
            please note though, we are socially and fiscally against black markets and back alleys

            here not pro-plan, just one person
            i am non-denominational, quite borderline agnostic, but feel spiritual in my own way
            it is saddening to have generated such mistrust
            i do not support either ‘party’ and only extremely few candidates over the years who have demonstrated both social and fiscal conscience

          • Jennifer Starr

            Your website, says, and I quote, that you support ‘Family Planning concepts that do not include pregnancy termination’. Explain?

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            we view contraception as a family planning concept, i.e. purposely planning when a pregnancy is or is not desired.

            semantically, pregnancy termination could only be considered a family planning concept if one considered it an intentional method in the same sense as, for example, a condom or IUD or bc-pills.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            What you really said is your anti-abortion, and now you’ve lied about it again.

          • Jennifer Starr

            it is saddening to have generated such mistrust

            I’m sorry, but you come in here telling us nothing about yourself, refusing to identify yourself, with a website that, as Colleen said, is very amateurish. You have a few mission statements/slogans and a blog that was apparently thrown together in ten days with a few copied and pasted articles about birth control. Your statements regarding your beliefs are ambiguous at best–you claim you have no positions on abortion but the few statements you have made here on the subject suggest otherwise. You keep referring to yourself as ‘we’, and talking as if your group has worked and collaborated with others and gathered opinions, but we can’t verify that. And you claim to have no other agenda other than ‘let’s all just be friends and work together’, but I kind of like to know who I’m being asked to work together with. Again, no way to prove anything. You’re asking us to just take you at your word without telling us who you even are–as give and takes go, that’s not exactly a fair exchange. And then you complain that we’re being mistrustful and unkind, but really, if this situation were turned around how would you be? Think about it.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            re both of your latest posts:

            saddened is not a complaint, rather a reflective state of being, here of not achieving one’s goals. Do you notice, even non-opinion responses to your questions generate negative feedback?

            IT pros or budgets for agencies could surely enable a better site, unfortunately neither at hand.

            Pressing and quoting experts provides direct data sources for readers, thereby hopefully lending credibility. Internal sources and research confidential – respect also to those with quiet voices. Thus such expert dependency, and as you point out, trust is good, proof is better.

            ambiguous? the agenda is clearly the focus on contraception; isolated, it is the dialogue most seem to agree upon, this blog also no exception.

            pro-plan is about many voices: according to The Public Religion Research Institute, 43% of Americans identify themselves as being in both pro-camps. Pls see the blog for the link; and tks to such institutes that have the resources for such official studies; had a single person or private focus group proposed this, it may not be believable.

          • Jennifer Starr

            I’m sorry, but while this is a lot of words, it really doesn’t answer many of my questions or tell me anything that I hadn’t already guessed. Your Public Religion Research Institute Poll, for instance, had to do with the beliefs of millenials, so the 43% is probably not representative of my and other generations because they were not included in the sample for that poll. And if you have done any actual polling or focus groups yourself, rather than picking random sources off the internet, you should know that I’m not asking you to provide names. Actual polling companies give information such as when and where the polling was conducted, how the polling was conducted, which questions were asked and what the sample size was, This is information that can be shared while still protecting the confidentiality of sources. And you still haven’t given yourself any credibility or any reason to trust you. And I am really beginning to believe that you’re hiding because you have something to hide. You want dialogue? Fine. But be open about yourself first.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            thank you for saying I’m sorry.
            here also, as all your wishes cannot be fulfilled.
            thank you still for the dialogue.

            The Public Religion Research Institute graphic contains the tagline “Millenials and Abortion Survey” but the graphic is entitled “All Americans” and the article clearly states the results pertains to “Americans overall” so this is just one excerpt of apparently a much larger study.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Saying ‘I’m sorry’ was not an apology, since I have neither treated you badly nor done or said anything that I feel any need to apologize for. The fact that you feel the need to demand trust from others without feeling the need to be honest or open about who you are or what you represent is your personal problem, not mine. And if you really want open dialogue and an end to polarization, I suggest you find a way to deal with it.

          • colleen2

            Note how he/she still does not respond to the request for legitimate cites or information about the organization he/she claims to be representing or that absurd claims he/she is making.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            I’m not sure even it’s convinced of what its saying. Every sentence is a convoluted pile of bollocks.

          • colleen2

            That’s what he calls ‘dialogue’.

          • colleen2

            pro-plan is about many voices: according to The Public Religion Research
            Institute, 43% of Americans identify themselves as being in both
            pro-camps.

            I see, so ‘pro-plan’ is an organization of invented people holding ideas identical to yours. Who holds the ‘focus groups’ and conducts the studies you claim ‘proplan’ has authored but is unable to actually cite for privacy reasons?

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Ok time to turn off the random string generator and start using real language. Gibberish is not an answer nor is it a moral stand.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Gawd I love Sam jackson’s now famous line: English MF do you speak it?

            I’m beginning to think he was really talking to you in that movie.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            this is the problem with faux grass roots movements, if you look too close at the grass roots instead you find dirt & fertilizer.

          • fiona64

            Yep. Every time someone tries to tell me that the Teabirchers are a “grass roots” movement, I show them the Koch bros. money …

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Health care was done up front cause its very important, far more than continuing to line republican wallets.

          • L-dan

            Are we even seeing the same country? Because that was not legislation that flew through with a rubber stamp. There wasn’t a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate for one thing. There are compromises all through it. Amazingly, Democrats aren’t all of one mind and couldn’t all agree on it without some negotiation either. Republicans mostly wouldn’t agree with it no matter what.

            Instead of single payer, which would have been doomed, they took a plan that had seen plenty of Republican support in the past and tuned it a bit, partly in hopes that the Republican’s who had once liked just such a plan would find it a bit easier to be bipartisan with that nod to their side of the aisle. But no. Nowadays, agreeing with the other party gets a fair chunk of Republicans voted out of office by a rabid base that demands ideological purity over good governance and hates having Obama in the White House. Suddenly it was the evil boogeyman they could whip up their base with.

            So seriously? The fact that it was a fight is pretty much just how laws have always happened. The fact that it’s become this bitter and protracted of a fight speaks far more to the fierce polarity of the right.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            We see and experience a country that is
            polarized. Even at the every man level. People more and more even
            avoid others who are not their religion. Many people vote on one issue and
            nothing else. pro-plan is talking only contraception and anyone’s immediate
            impression is we are pro- or anti-choice? Since when has it been this bad? How do
            we move beyond?

          • colleen2

            The first thing YOU need to do is stop lying. Answer our legitimate questions.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            You are the polarity, when you start casting blame then first blame yourself.

          • fiona64

            But this is perhaps what happens when major legislation is passed without any consideration across the aisle

            WTF? Are you serious? It was the GOTeabirchers who insisted that single payer come *off* the table in order to pass the ACA.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            you and your extremist ilk are the reason my american neighbours have such outrages lack of proper health care. And I can say I’m very glad canada doesn’t have the health care system you want so desparately. If it did, I’d be suffering crippling conditions or dead by now.

          • fiona64

            “Pro-Plan” (isn’t that a dog food?) has clearly never interacted with the medical systems in those large countries, or s/he wouldn’t say such ridiculous things. When we were in Paris earlier this year, my husband and I had to go to the emergency room, and they had to call in a specialist. Did we have to wait? Sure … just like we would in the US … because there was six inches of snow on the ground, and people were coming in with symptoms of hypothermia, injuries from slips/falls on snow and ice, etc. Those situations were just a little more urgent than ours, even given calling in the specialist.

            The people of France have their medical treatment and medication covered at 100 percent. We knew we would have to pay out of pocket for the *exceptionally good treatment* that we received, and I prepared to spend the rest of our trip eating at “Le MacDo” as I thought we would be wiped out.

            Our cost as non-citizens was 80 euros (about $100 USD) for the ER visit — including the specialist. That’s a *co-pay* here, on top of what we pay for insurance. Then, his prescription was another 12 euros (around $15 USD). Again, cheaper than what we pay here.

            That same visit in the US, without insurance, might have bankrupted someone.

            My experience in this matter being *primary,* no one will ever get to badmouth single-payer in my presence again.

          • L-dan

            *nod* I have friends in Finland (granted, a relatively small place, as far as population goes) and never hear about undue waiting. Another in England, where it’s a bit more of a hassle, is also sicker and has a lot of visits.

          • HeilMary1

            An American woman with a suspicious breast lump was also charged $100 for treatment and the French specialists profusely apologized for that paltry rate.

          • Jennifer Starr

            This is starting to sound very much like the talking points for one of those Americans for Prosperity front groups.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            Aren’t we all Americans for prosperity? ;) Nice to at least have
            civilized dialogue. Some folks in DC and other polarizers across the nation need
            to know that people can do that – and want that.

          • Jennifer Starr

            No, I don’t like the AFP and the disinformation and fear-mongering they’ve been spreading through those ads of theirs. They aren’t even a real group. just a paid mouthpiece for the repulsive Koch brothers.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            not what was meant, p was not caps ;)

          • Jennifer Starr

            Yeah, I’m still not convinced this isn’t a front for some paid lobbying thing. The whole thing is starting to smell awfully fishy…

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            Kindly point out any item on our site that is
            even half suspicious – and we’ll take it down!

          • Jennifer Starr

            Using privacy protect is a pretty good sign that you have something to hide. You see, I’m more than a little leery about reaching across a bridge when I don’t know who or what is on the other side.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            if you ponder the comments from folks like colleen and mary, perhaps you could understand?
            maybe we have families we would prefer growing up in civility and harmony?

            ps did you come up with anything offensive or in any way slanted on the site?

          • colleen2

            Mary and I want to keep abortion legal and safe. You don’t.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            When you exhibit neither civility or harmony you forgoe the right to lecture everyone else on the same.

          • Jennifer Starr

            maybe we have families we would prefer growing up in civility and harmony?

            That’s funny you should say that, because I know of doctors and abortion clinic workers who would love to live in harmony and civility too, but they can’t because of harassment, stalking and terrorism by ‘pro-life’ protesters. Even so called peaceful ‘pro-life’ protesters will try to protest in front of people’s homes, which I consider to be beyond the pale.

            You’ve encountered disagreement and strong opinions, but you haven’t been threatened here. And I’m still suspicious of any group who hides themselves in the shadows. And I’m not just going to take you on your word that you have no hidden agenda, because as I said, I don’t know who you are.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            exiting the above hostilities here at this juncture; it is not productive.
            hope to meet you again, perhaps on our blog? you are welcome any time.

          • Jennifer Starr

            I’m sorry, but if you think that’s hostile, you really need to grow a thicker skin.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Read your own posts troll, your own meagre attempts to cover your tracks, in the words of the older generation, as sincere as a wood nickel.

          • colleen2

            I think this is that hopeless ninny of a social worker and a couple of her buddies from the early days when the ‘centrists’ kept getting annoyed when we pointed out that they wanted to make abortion illegal.

          • colleen2

            Aren’t we all Americans for prosperity? ;)

            no.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            thats the height of arrogance to assume we’re all Americans. I’m not and unlike you I don’t demean others different from myself. Having grown up in neighbourhoods with europeans, black, white, asians, native, including some who used to be labled “america’s enemies” I learned tolerance very early on. Long past due you did the same.

          • colleen2

            I suggest you find another blog.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            use your ears & eyes not your mouth. Your faux compassion disguising your fascist views are completely revolting.

          • cjvg

            That is news to me.
            The Netherlands, England, Denmark, Norway, Finland etc all have 100% full coverage for all contraceptive options including the BC pill and IUD.
            While I worked in Germany I also had full coverage on any contraceptive choice I would like to have, please let me know what law changed to permit the exclusion of these?!
            You must be confused!

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            maybe it was different some time back, but years ago came co-pay also for all medications, seems money is tight all around, the East cost them bundles, the Euro, too. They cut back a lot in social services, still generous for US terms, but friends tell me they pay for their pills and IUDs now.

          • colleen2

            Perhaps ‘pro-plan’ should ‘focus group’ it’s membership before making demonstrably false claims about European healthcare. Particularly when your argument rests on those claims.

          • fiona64

            S/he says a whole lot of false things about European health care. S/he needs to stop listening to Glenn Beck, et al. … especially considering that there are plenty of people out here in Internetland with primary experience that exposes his/her lies.

          • cjvg

            No kidding, the complete and utter BS they spout without any proof or personal experience is just mind-blowing.
            I especially “like” the ones who continue to lecture me about how I as a European have no idea how European health care works!
            At least this one was “smart” enough to shut up and scurry away

          • colleen2

            You REALLY need to take your pathetic Republican show elsewhere.

      • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

        employers forcing their staff to NOT have health care based on false conscience is not consumer choice, its fascism, and that’s you really espouse.

      • Arekushieru

        Sorry, but your privilege is showing. QUITE often the impoverished women who are the targets of the radical rights woman-hating policies would have to decide between feeding their (already numerous) children (whom the Christian Right would just LOVE forcing them to have more of) for the day OR buying a pack of condoms. Thank you.

        Oh, but now either the poor employers will feel the pinch from having to purchase insurance that will cover employees that only work 30h/wk or women will be lining up for part-time work presumably because their goal of free contraception has been reached? One suggestion is very laughable (and I think you know it), the other one pretends that higher income levels are disproportionately more affected by expenses than income levels. N/M. BOTH assumptions are ridiculous.

        • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

          grew up poor, please do not read what is not there.

          30 hrs/wk or 130 hrs/moth is not enough to earn coverage – that was the point. And the concern: that some crazies will reduce employee hours to avoid ACA.
          That and lots of other exemptions is a good reason for the single-payer system instead, wrote someone else before.

          • Arekushieru

            Um, sure… but I think you need to go back and re-read what you say before replying, next time: We think it makes both economic and social sense, but frankly most
            contraception is cheaper than many cell phone or cable monthlies, so we
            also understand the question, is it not oft consumer choice; that does NOT imply an understanding of poverty. Mmkay?

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            you are correct, of course not fair to apply anything generally, but my supermarket lines offer some insight into the consumer choice observation: me standing behind a family using food stamps, all holding the newest iPhones, and me there with my ancient dumbphone counting quarters… a little frustrating sometimes

          • fiona64

            standing behind a family using food stamps, all holding the newest iPhones,

            Liar. SNAP benefits go on debit cards operated by major banks. You cannot tell who in line with you is using SNAP benefits. Period.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            y’know Iphones are absurdly expensive right? your idiotic argument is completely nonsensical. For anyone on foodstamps a single iphone is above their monthly income. yet you complain about your old phone (no doubt newer than mine) and “counting quarters” shows that you need to get a job before you tell the poor to do the same. No doubt about it your clearly a very delusional bigot.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Anyone who’s seen my cable (& internet) bill can attest to what you say as being very real.

          • colleen2

            grew up poor, please do not read what is not there.

            Honey, you (or at least one of you) has been engaging in open ridicule of poor folks. One of you brought up your alcoholic NEIGHBOR in a unsuccessful attempt at noblesse oblige. Maybe the one who grew up poor should have a discussion with the one that sounds like a republican doctor’s trophy wife.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Then stop telling us what isn’t real.

            On that note I’ve got some bad news for you about the tooth fairy.

  • Jennifer Starr

    Additionally, I find it more than a little suspicious that you choose to hide behind Privacy Protection and you don’t disclose who is behind your website. Something to hide?

    • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

      Thanks for your interest, but it is not about
      us, it is about it.
      What do you find offensive?

      • Jennifer Starr

        I find it offensive that you hide who you are, and I think you’re probably a front for some anti-choice organization.

        • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

          Absolutely NOT!

          Please read our first blog: that 43% of Americans identified themselves as being in both camps – we are in that group and would like to see less polarization in our society.

          We try to understand both sides, feel many issues on both sides are valid and that some middle ground can be found, namely in pure proactive contraception, but only if folks left the extreme stuff off the table.

          We believe firmly, if we do contraception right, the rest is less than 5%, basically failed contraception cases – it happens, too. But right now, 50% of all pregnancies are unintended! See our blog: America, the oops! society…

          • Jennifer Starr

            What do you consider to be ‘pure proactive contraception’? And what do you consider to be extreme? Actually, I have to say that I was shocked that something that over 90% of women, including Catholics, have used in the country is still considered controversial in some circles. But look at where we are. A woman testifies in front of congress about people she knew who needed birth control for medical conditions and she’s slandered and called a s1ut by the right-wing crowd. .

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            For us, proactive contraception is preventing pregnancy, not aborting. So there is a difference between the terms contraception
            and birth control. Even Plan-B is still a concern as we have not seen evidence that doctors know how it works. They just say, pregnancies do still happen when it is used, so they are practically assuming it does not effect an already fertilized and implanted egg. We are not sure on this one…

            We are happy the new hormone IUDs are now supposed to do this; the old ones were objectionable for many as they did not prevent conception, just pregnancy.

            Extreme for us would be, for example, no trimester limits on abortions, and fighting for the right just based on gender. Also
            extreme is holding that all contraception at any time should be banned. Ridiculous. Even Catholics use contraception. We hope Pope Francis clears the air on this one real soon. We think he is itching to do so, just maybe also under some pressure?

          • L-dan

            Considering pregnancy to begin at conception, and therefore being all conflicted about something like Plan B, strikes me as pretty extreme. A blastocyst is not a baby. Therefore, even preventing implantation should be extremely non-controversial to scientifically minded and non-extreme parties.

            Likewise, even properly used contraception fails, so abortion will always be needed.

            That said, I’m all for anyone pushing for more eduction about and availability of contraception.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            Great.
            We just try to be sensitive to all opinions and it is not a small minority that takes a stand on conception.

            The case of failed contraception is less than 5% when used consistently, and some of these cases do opt to have the child. So we are in the exception clause here.

            50% of pregnancies are unintended. America, oops? Again, we want no back alleys, just lots of loud voices for a lot more contraception and responsible intimacy. If we pooled all these resources and this wonderful passion for the right or life cause into prevention, would we see progress?

          • Jennifer Starr

            You know that unintended does not always mean unwanted, right? They are two different things.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            Completely unwanted comes in at 19% (says Guttmacher).
            But if 64% of unintended are born into social welfare, then 32% of all
            pregnancies were purposely planned within social welfare constraints? Is that real mistiming or ok, I’ll have the kid?

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            yeah totally obvious manipulation here. Very tiresome, unoriginal & untrue.

          • colleen2

            it is not a small minority that takes a stand on conception.

            This is a lie. It is a VERY small minority that tries to deny American women access to effective contraception. Please stop using this blog as a place to tell your religious right lies.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            Facts? citations? evidence of any kind?

            Oh silly me I forgot you thrive on propoganda which requires no proof. But really I’ve seen more valid proof of bigfoot than for anything you’ve said.

          • BJ Survivor

            Even Plan-B is still a concern as we have not seen evidence that doctors know how it works.

            That is not true. We know very well how Plan B works. It is contraception. While contraception and abortion are both methods of birth control, abortion is not a type of contraception.

            From the pro-abort commies at the National Institute of Health (nlm*dot*nih*dot*gov/medlineplus/druginfo/meds/a610021*dot*html): Plan B is merely a large dose of levonorgestrel, which is a synthetic progestin. It works by delaying or preventing ovulation or preventing fertilization. It absolutely will not work to abort a pregnancy. These are proven.

            Scientists speculate that it may also work by preventing implantation of the blastocyst because levonorgestrel does have an effect on the uterine lining. This has never been proven. This is extremely specious speculation, because progesterone, the natural hormone from which progestins have been derived, is necessary in vastly increasing amounts in order to sustain pregnancy.

            In any event, even if it were proven to prevent implantation, it would still not be “abortifacient,” because implantation is the start of pregnancy, not fertilization. And there can be no abortion without first a pregnancy.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            This is over the limit, this loon is clearly getting his “medical information” from jerry springer & late night infomercials.

          • HeilMary1

            By an adulterous wife-dumping, child sex tourist, drug addict, no less!

          • Jennifer Starr

            And if you’re not a front for an anti-choice organization, that’s easy enough to prove if you’re willing to do it.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            You do not seem to be an extremist, so we would
            enjoy sitting at the table to further the discussion in person. But there are
            extremists who we would prefer not to meet right now, until 95% of rational America is
            pro-plan and we leave the 5% in the dust ;)

          • colleen2

            the “extreme stuff” being safe legal abortion. You have no right to “take that off the table”.

        • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

          We spent three years speaking with pro-lifers and pro-choicers and lots of folks who sympathize with both sides about finding middle ground, a way out of the polarization. No one we spoke with likes the current situation. We also talked about the economics.

          In fairness, some ask, where does it end – we find the question valid.
          An alcoholic admits her disease and needs vodka; this should be covered? A sky-diver gets kicks from jumping, not sex; we pay that, too? A Catholic’s fetish is having kids; we chip in for diapers?

          The rising cost of the social welfare system raises compelling social issues, but pure economics may provide the best fiscal approach:
          Nearly 50% of pregnancies are unintended.
          Fully 95% of all unintended pregnancies are attributable to non or
          inconsistent use contraceptives.
          64% of unintended births are born into poverty and the social welfare system.

          Is there no correlation between contraception and social welfare?

          We do not want to see back alleys and black markets take over here – absolutely not. But we also understand the outrage that over 1 million abortions are conducted in the US annually. The fact that these numbers have decreased somewhat since 2000 while the unintended pregnancy rate has remained stable empowers some to feel that a loud voice is making a difference.

          Can we scream contraception louder so women (and men!) are strong and ready for their beautiful babies?

          • Jennifer Starr

            In all honesty, I’m tired of being understanding to and stepping around eggshells with people whose poor little consciences are supposedly so scarred by filling prescriptions for contraception or contraception being included in healthcare plans. Who supposedly sit up all night weeping for the babies that other people might never conceive. Or maybe they’re afraid of being excommunicated or whatever–I’m not Catholic so I’ll admit that I don’t know how this works. .Seriously, they need to get over it. Contraception has been widely used since the sixties and quite frankly, it should have been covered a lot time ago.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            Agree entirely, but with nearly 50% of all pregnancies being unintended, then contraception has a long way to go.
            Check some of our articles on how little people, also non-Catholics, actually know.
            But the teens seem to be on the ball!

          • Jennifer Starr

            I was blessed to be able to attend high school in the ’80s and receive actual comprehensive sex-ed as opposed to the abstinence-only crap that kids today receive. Yes, we went through all the contraceptive methods. I even practiced putting a condom on a cucumber, much to the horror of Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell and his ‘Moral Majority’.And actually it was hearing and reading the actual facts that persuaded me to abstain during my high school years.

          • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

            impressive
            I never had the cucumber exercise or was exposed to proper literature, maybe would have done me good…
            We hear from lots of teens that they are abstaining.

          • colleen2

            then contraception has a long way to go.

            The best way to encourage the use of effective contraception is to support Planned Parenthood. Perhaps if folks like you would stop trying to destroy Planned Parenthood and lying to everyone you too could be useful.

          • colleen2

            go away. You are just disgusting.

          • fiona64

            Is there no correlation between contraception and social welfare?

            By which you clearly mean that contraception causes social problems …

      • colleen2

        What do you find offensive?

        Your passive aggressive lies and attempts to manipulate

    • colleen2

      I just did a whois and this person is frightened of being identified.

      • Jennifer Starr

        Something to hide, and he/she is very defensive about it.

        • colleen2

          Note how he/she refuses to answer essential questions no matter how often they are asked or how directly. Reminds me SO MUCH of that Susan B Anthony list social worker who worked at Crisis Pregnancy Centers.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Yes, it’s extremely fishy. Evades any direct questions, refuses to be honest about anything and then gets all pissy because we distrust him/her. And then the lament about how ‘it’s just so sad that we can’t work together and find common ground, boo-hoo’. Give me a break.

          • colleen2

            I recall that lament. It’s the mating call of Democrats for Life, the DLC and the ‘new’ Democrats.

  • Arekushieru

    First off, I don’t like how you labeled every pregnancy ‘precious’ given that you then followed it with ‘a wanted one’. I’m going to have to assume that you literally MEANT *every* pregnancy, simply because you eliminated the possibility that you were DISTINGUISHING between an unwanted and wanted pregnancy, with those three little words.

    Why is it not correct that insurers disclose their Viagra coverage, etc… etc…? After all, if this is simply about being a constructive to actually inform potential customers, why no concern over THESE issues?

    And, in reference to Jennifer’s statement above (or below as the case may be), Pro-Choice actually supports NOT choosing the gender of a fetus. Precisely BECAUSE we are challenging cultural and societal gender norms. By treating women as DIFFERENT, therefore maintaining the status quo, Pro-LIFE are the ones who are actually supporting an increase in sex-selective abortions. Hmm….

    • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

      precious pregnancy: picked it up possibly from those wanting to get pregnant but having no success – nothing more or less; it was not clear as it was not purposely designated to intended or not or wanted or not.

      not sure of your perspective: would you say every pregnancy is precious, wanted or unwanted? or are you defining it exclusively? just curious, you don’t have to answer.

      always concern over the small print, transparency is, as you say, on all counts important, just for us one battle at a time, it is difficult enough.

      your last point is directed to Jennifer, right? there are several others here who have a strong opinion on the gender issue as well and voiced it is part of pro-choice, so you can all work it out without us, ok? We already got venom for having the same opinion as
      you on the matter ;)

      • Arekushieru

        No, the last point is directed at you. Please do feel free to go back and re-read what you said, after all this was YOUR question: Does pro-choice also support choosing a baby’s gender?

        And, if you don’t understand what in reference means, quite simply it means that I was using Jennifer’s reply to make a more complete response to you.

        Um, I was reiterating your perspective…. After all I did say YOU eliminated the possibility of *distinguishing* between the two, not myself…? I wasn’t talking about my own perspective one way or the other. I was merely explaining how such an adjective made me feel uncomfortable (due to the fact that it is often used to other women, by implying they aren’t natural or normal if they don’t want to be pregnant at any given time, so, again, not talking about myself, obviously, simply reiterating your perspective). But your statement about someone who wants to get pregnant but is unsuccessful implies even MORE that there is a relationship between whether the pregnancy was wanted or not and being considered precious in your OWN perspective.

        • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

          understood from the lawsuit in the article and from the firing squad in the blog that at least some folks do support it under choice, cancer issues were also raised, things beyond knowledge here.

          For those couples who want(ed) to get pregnant, the subject of unwanted was not even on the table, so that cannot be a frame of reference they meant – nor here having just picked it up – there simply was no context, kindly do not read more into it.

          • Jennifer Starr

            That you claim to have conducted focus groups and opinion polling over a span of three years suggests that your organization has more sophistication than your web page would lead people to believe. I don’t suppose you’d care to share any details about who this organization is, how these focus groups are put together and the details of the polling you’ve supposedly conducted, would you?

          • colleen2

            He/she really shut up when called on the ‘we conduct focus groups’ lie. What a dilemma. This person is claiming expertise he/she does not possess and an organization with a secret membership and, apparently, no budget.It sounds like the ‘focus groups’ are republican women gossiping about the poor folks in the grocery store lines.

          • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

            By focus groups he meant old white men in cheap suits, aka televangelists.

          • colleen2

            who funds these ‘focus groups’?

      • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

        How bout valuing every person already living on this planet? You and your ilk continually refuse to do so. Too often kids once born are ignored or mistreated, sometimes quite horribly yet you stand by and do nothing.

        • Ella Warnock

          Whaaat, care about actual people? Actual people are messy, complicated, obstinate, opinionated and too damn much trouble to deal with. Much better to just project all your own issues onto an “innocent” fetus. It’s not like they’re going to argue or disagree with you.

  • BJ Survivor

    Yes, yes it is. Because first-trimester abortion procedures are simple, as well as extremely safe (though not entirely risk-free, no procedure or medication is) and studies have proven that specially-trained nurse practitioners who provide them have the same outcomes as physicians. This means that more localities and, hence, more women will have access to first-trimester abortion services. Coupled with relaxing the clinic standards for the extremely simple and safe first-trimester procedures, this will result in not only greater access to abortions for women who need/want them, but will also help to lower the costs of the procedure.

  • BJ Survivor

    Pro-choice supports whatever choice a woman wishes regarding her health and medical decisions. Even if, individually, we do not agree with her choice(s) or would not make the same one(s) in her situation. In any event, since the vast majority of abortions are sought and performed in the first trimester, there isn’t any way first-trimester abortions can ever be for sex selection. Because, you know, they can’t usually tell the sex of a fetus until 16 weeks’ gestation.

    I, personally, do find it troubling that women are so devalued in some cultures that women feel it necessary to get second-trimester abortions if it becomes known that the fetus is female. IMO, the answer is not to ban sex-selective abortions but to raise the status of women so that sex-selective abortions become a thing of the past. I will never be on board with forcing women to remain pregnant or have abortions against their will.

  • Arekushieru

    Yet you guys insist that having non-doctors assist at births in CPCs is something to cheer about. Something that is FAR more dangerous and invasive than a first trimester abortion. WOW.

    • fiona64

      Thank you for saying this. Phillip wants to whine about nurse practitioners doing first-trimester abortions, but is totes okay with some volunteer CPC twit dispensing *false information*?

      I’m sorry, but my irony meter is broken.

      • Ella Warnock

        Fiona, you go thru irony meters like nobody else I know. ;-)

        • fiona64

          Well, myintx broke my nice one from Paris … and the American-made ones just don’t stand up to the stupid as well as one might hope. ;-)

          • Lizzie

            Yes but it does seem as if MY is gone for good!

          • fiona64

            “May God bless and keep MY … far away from us.” / h/t to “Fiddler on the Roof”

  • jejune

    Insurers should disclose their throat cancer and heart disease coverage.

    I don’t want to pay for people who smoke and eat fatty foods.

    It’s IMMORAL.

    I shouldn’t have to pay for their lifestyle choices!

  • colleen2

    I would prefer to donate to Planned Parenthood. They have a long, excellent track record and, unlike you, are transparent and honest. Why should the women here support you rather than Planned Parenthood? How are your goals different from theirs?

    • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

      Planned Parenthood conducts pregnancy terminations alongside other services within the same facilities, not sure if everywhere, but usually. Persons not in favor of such procedures and persons not wanting to perhaps be viewed as pregnant and undertaking such a procedure will not seek access to other health care including screenings, consultation and contraception at these facilities, yet these are women with needs as well.

      pro-plan promotes dialogue to find solutions where people with the common goal of contraception can be served. Planned Parenthood and other providers could do this if they segregated services and facilities, which under some new state laws may even be beneficial or economically optimal to fulfill location requirements.

      pro-plan is not seeking donations, just dialogue and contextual support.
      Have a nice day.

      • colleen2

        pro-plan promotes dialogue to find solutions where people with the common goal of contraception can be served.

        Oh, so what ‘proplan’ is doing is attempting to pander to conservative women who believe the lie that Planned Parenthood is mostly about abortion. What ‘proplan’ wants is a clientele who looks down on and tell lies about welfare recipients in the grocery store lines but who do not necessarily want to go the way of Michelle Duggar.

        Paul Bradford made up an organization composed of one person, himself. As I recall Paul often comforted himself by pretending here there were lots of Pro-choice Catholics for Life or whatever ‘common ground’ meaningless feel-good gobbledygook his delusional mind came up with. Of course Paul went off his meds quite often and when he decompensated he obsessed about the women here to a creepy extent too. I would be amused if this time he named himself after a dogfood.

      • Jennifer Starr

        I’m calling BS on this one. I’ve been to Planned Parenthood several times, and none of those times dealt with pregnancy or abortion. And while it was annoying to have total strangers outside telling me they can ‘save my baby’, it never dissuaded me from using those services. And abortion is only 3% of what PP does.

        • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

          you are a strong person.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Well many women are stronger than you may think. And again, abortion is only 3% of what Planned Parenthood does.

          • colleen2

            Perhaps when you ‘dialogue’ with the religious right you will explain to them that when they are screaming at women trying to enter a clinic and calling them “baby killer” that tends to discourage contraceptive use. The other thing that discourages contraceptive use is the Roman Catholic church. Indeed they just tried to turn employment for American women into a relationship where the ONLY person who has freedom or religion or conscience in an employment relationship is the employer. That’s disgusting on so many levels.

      • Jennifer Starr

        What Colleen said makes a good point. Perhaps if women didn’t have to deal with crazy people screeching at them when they went inside PP, it would make these services easier to use, don’t you think? No protesters=problem solved. And don’t give me the crap about separate facilities, as these nutjobs have been known to protest outside Planned Parenthoods that don’t perform abortions as well.

      • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

        And your not seeking reality either no matter how many times it layeth the smaketh down on your fantasy world where you spend all your time in a sexless tent revival meeting.

  • Jennifer Starr

    No, I prefer not to get proselytizing with my healthcare.

  • Jennifer Starr

    I am all for widely available contraception ,covered with no co-pay by health insurance plans. But there is always a failure rate with any birth control, including sterilization and things that go wrong with wanted pregnancies, which is why I support abortion rights and I am pro-choice. And I’m not willing to compromise that position.

    • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

      Jennifer, agreed, there is always a failure rate. But it is not what we
      have today. The overall incident rate and the “half have had at least one previous termination” are very troublesome, again “at least one”. So what does that mean, the fourth, sixth? These are all women who have been at one clinic or another already before. Is that what pro-choice bought into? Are these clinics really singing the contraception song loud enough? Or does the “industry” prevail? Do you support using abortion as a birth control method? Is pro-choice pro-abortion? Do you think the contraception message is loud and clear enough and really being taken seriously?

      I was pro-choice and was terribly disappointed with the performance and focus. I am not alone. Please help let them all know something has to change; the above results of pro-choice are nothing to write home about. Go pro-plan!

      • Jennifer Starr

        Industry? Again, abortion is only 3% of what PP does. You seem to conveniently ignore that fact. And still I maintain–decisions about a pregnancy should be made between a woman, her doctor and whomever she chooses to involve. Only she can carry the pregnancy, therefore the decision should belong to her. Other women’s pregnancies are none of my business. And I don’t have to agree with someone’s choice to support her right to make that choice.

        And for the record, once upon a time I used to be ‘pro-life’. But then I grew up. And from what I can see, ‘pro-plan’ is basically just ‘pro-life’ disguised in a pretty cloth. And you know, I’m not sure who’s worse–the people who come right out and try to grab your reproductive rights away, or the people who try to ‘compromise’ them away in the interest of so-called ‘middle ground’. They’re both trying to take your rights, but one pretends to do it more ‘nicely’.

        • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

          so back to square 1: 43% of
          all Americans identify themselves as both pro-choice and pro-plan. We have come
          full circle.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Yeah, you’ve pretty much stopped making sense now. This post has nothing to do with what I was saying–nothing at all.

          • colleen2

            43% of
            all Americans identify themselves as both pro-choice and pro-plan

            43% of Americans can go to Planned Parenthood for their ‘pro-plan’ needs

  • Jennifer Starr

    How about this. I like Planned Parenthood for my healthcare. And though I will keep going there regardless, I would prefer to be able to go there without being yelled at by anti-choice nutcases. So, the nuts stop protesting and go away, and I’m happy. Is that a compromise that you can live with, sweetie?

  • Jennifer Starr

    I mean, the idea that you think that I should have to compromise where I want to go for healthcare just because it would make you more comfortable because ‘OMG, Planned Parenthood kills teh baybeez!’ is just so very insulting that I can’t find nice words for you now

    • http://www.pro-plan-now.org/ pro-plan

      you’ve never said anything nice to me, anyway, just a lot of name calling, twisting of my words and intent as well as false accusations.

      • Jennifer Starr

        Actually, I think I’ve bent over to be excruciatingly accommodating, considering that I’m talking to a concern troll who refuses to answer direct questions and refuses to be honest about his or her true identity and motives.

      • cj99.willingness99@gmail.com

        Nope, thats you twisting reality for your own weird ends.

  • Jennifer Starr

    Being disingenuous again, I see, Sandy/Donna/Robin/Beverly/Naomi. The fact that three of the five people who like your page– Sandy/Donna/Robin–are American expats living in Berlin is more than just a coincidence–I’m betting that probably comprises the whole of your group, or at least its leaders/founders. And please, spare me the blather about how sad it is to watch the ‘America of today’. Things are not that bad. Sure, they’ve been better, but they’ve also been worse. And we bounce back, providing we keep moving forward and don’t let the teabirchers drag us back into the fifties.

  • colleen2

    It is best to try to avoid ALL medical care provided by the religious right.

  • colleen2

    See, if the religious right would stop attacking and demonizing Planned Parenthood and insurance reform we could more closely resemble Germany. Because we sure as hell aren’t going to establish special birth control clinics for women so brainwashed and stupid they vote Republican.