CNN Concludes Rachel Maddow Was Right In Gender Pay Gap Debate With Alex Castellanos


CNN used to be the bland, vanilla network of news that over-compensated for its lack of screaming shrills with really cool but ultimately gratuitous 3-D technology. I mean, who really wants to see a hologram of John Boehner crying. With the hiring of Breitbart spawn, Dana Loesch — whose only qualification is she appears to have an active Twitter account — CNN officially killed off any credibility it might have had left.

Enter Alex Castellanos

Honestly, I had absolutely no idea who this guy was until performing a google search. But what I found was a vomit-inducing mixture of all the smug and smarmy obsequiousness of Tucker Carlson, combined with the condescension and false bravado of Sean Hannity.

It seems MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow joined a Meet the Press panel to discuss the significance of the women’s vote in the 2012 election, as well as addressing the Republicans’ seemingly never-ending “War on Women.” But when Maddow justifiably attempted to illustrate the obvious disparities in pay between women and men, GOP strategist Castellanos called her out as though she was Kim Kardashian and not Oxford-educated Rachel Maddow; Maddow instinctively found this to be insanely condescending. Being a good right-wing pundit, Castellanos wouldn’t let her speak and interrupted her to claim that no parity exists. Oh, this should be richer than a multimillionaire claiming to be unemployed.

Castellanos argued that not only do men work more hours a week than women, but men tend to go for professions that pay slightly more than women.

Maddow fired back by saying Castellanos operates on a slightly different “factual understanding of the world.” To which Castellanos replied, “I love how passionate you are. I wish you were as right about what you’re saying as you are passionate about it. I really do,” according to Mediaite.

This is where Maddow said Castellanos was being “really condescending” to her, and that her zeal comes from making fact-based argument. Burned!

At any rate, CNN’s Wolf Blitzer and reporter Lisa Sylvester evidently did a thorough fact-check of all the points made in the debate and concluded that Maddow was on the right side of the argument.

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  • texas-aggie

    Did Wolf REALLY come down on the liberal side of an argument?  Mark it on the calendar.

  • anonymous99

    OK.  So I thought this was a site focusing on women’s reproductive health?  Sexual health?  Contraception?  Etc.

     

    So I guess not.  I suppose any ridiculous feminist narrative is allowed to appear on these pages.  Perhaps the editors need to screen these posts more carefully.  There is simply no BIG LIE that has been so thoroughly discredited than the “pay gap”.

     

    Here is what is obvious to anyone who has actually worked in a regular job for any period of time.  The reason women don’t make as much money as men is that they work less, in less demanding jobs.  Perhaps surprisingly to some, if you spend years away from your job to be a “stay-at-home-mom” your just not going to command the same salary as all those men AND women who were actually working.

     

    Here are some helpful hints to feminists who actually care about helping women become financially independent:

    1.  Push for more paternity leave

    2.  Push for shared parenting post-separation

    3.  Push for abolition of marital welfare

    4.  Push for the end to so-called “child” support

    5.  Help stop the “deadbeat dad” narrative

     

    I could go on but I think you get the picture.  

     

    The “pay gap” is a function entirely of women’s choices.  Honestly, these are choices that many would be stupid not to make.  Isn’t it obvious?  Women aren’t working as much because they’re spending some guys money!  They don’t NEED to work as much as men.  My wife is the perfect example of this.  Ten years of higher education.  Engineering degree!  I paid for that one!!!  Worked a couple years then … she “changed her mind” about having a career.  So she spends my hard-earned money and then our so-called “family” law system “has her back”.  Community property, alimony, so-called “child” support, imputed income, QDROs.  Now I’m her slave.

  • crowepps

    Actually, another Big Lie has been much more thoroughly discredited, the whining from Men’s Rights Activitists about how they’re oppressed.

  • prochoiceferret

    OK.  So I thought this was a site focusing on women’s reproductive health?  Sexual health?  Contraception?  Etc.

     

    Yes, as well as issues that have an impact on those things.

     

    So I guess not.  I suppose any ridiculous feminist narrative is allowed to appear on these pages.  Perhaps the editors need to screen these posts more carefully.  There is simply no BIG LIE that has been so thoroughly discredited than the “pay gap”.

     

    I’m sure the “pay gap” has been just as discredited as the “feminist narratives” that you consider to be “ridiculous” (which appears to include the factual ones).

     

    Here is what is obvious to anyone who has actually worked in a regular job for any period of time.  The reason women don’t make as much money as men is that they work less, in less demanding jobs.  Perhaps surprisingly to some, if you spend years away from your job to be a “stay-at-home-mom” your just not going to command the same salary as all those men AND women who were actually working.

     

    And here is what is obvious to anyone who actually knows anything about the “pay gap”: It’s the difference between what men and women make for the same work. Did you actually think womens’ wage inequality would be a thing if we were comparing the take-home pay of a male brain surgeon versus a female restaurant server?

     

    Here are some helpful hints to feminists who actually care about helping women become financially independent:

     

    Oh, this should be amusing.

     

    1.  Push for more paternity leave

     

    I believe feminists are still working on the “some maternity leave” thing in this country. “More” and “paternity” tend to come after that.

     

    2.  Push for shared parenting post-separation

     

    I’m sure that’ll help the women who separated due to an abusive partner.

     

    3.  Push for abolition of marital welfare

     

    I’ve got an even better idea: Don’t get married in the first place. You won’t have to pay for anything then except for dinner and flowers.

     

    4.  Push for the end to so-called “child” support

     

    Add to the previous list: condoms.

     

    5.  Help stop the “deadbeat dad” narrative

     

    We’ll stop it once they get off their lazy asses and write those checks already!

     

    I could go on but I think you get the picture.

     

    Yes; your advice to feminists is basically to help men get more employment/legal concessions and less financial responsibility. I guess MRAs have become so repugnant that they need more credible advocates to do their work for them. Not a pretty picture.

     

    The “pay gap” is a function entirely of women’s choices.  Honestly, these are choices that many would be stupid not to make.  Isn’t it obvious?  Women aren’t working as much because they’re spending some guys money!  They don’t NEED to work as much as men.  My wife is the perfect example of this.  Ten years of higher education.  Engineering degree!  I paid for that one!!!  Worked a couple years then … she “changed her mind” about having a career.  So she spends my hard-earned money and then our so-called “family” law system “has her back”.  Community property, alimony, so-called “child” support, imputed income, QDROs.  Now I’m her slave.

     

    Well, at least now we know why you’re so keen on point #5.

  • anonymous99

    Oops!!!  The “pay gap” DOES compare different jobs and differing levels of experience.  That’s right, the “pay gap” compares oil rig workers to activists who are trying in vain to convince the world that the “pay gap” exists.

     

    Seriously, do you really think businesses wouldn’t hire women if they could get a 20-30% discount over men?  Seriously???

     

    Again, I’ll try to help.  If you REALLY want women to be financially independent and reach the top echelons of business and government take away the feminist welfare punch bowl.  End marriage as we know it.  End divorce as we know it.  End our child abduction, or “custody”, system as we know it.  Implement shared parenting post-separation.  End our so-called “child” support system as we know it.  Allow fathers to have more time with their kids.  If you’re simply interested in enslaving men to the benefit of women keep doing what you’re doing.

     

    Don’t get married?  Yes, I agree.  But why do you expect men to pay for your meals and nice things like flowers.  Why can’t you pay for those yourself?  And maybe women should start asking men out on dates and paying for their meals and junk.  Hmmm….  I guess feminism is NOT about equality after all.  Oops!!! 

  • anonymous99

    You actually got a “5″ for that “brilliant” comment.  I know you can do a lot better than that.  So much for the rhrc.org ratings system.

     

    Seriously, allowing this “pay gap” nonsense here is an embarrassment to the site.  There is so much good information/stories/insight here, of which I agree with probably 95% of the time, and then this “hard hitting” piece (sarcasm).  Supporters of this site would better serve it by complaining to the editors about it rather than weakly defending it.

  • prochoiceferret

    Oops!!!  The “pay gap” DOES compare different jobs and differing levels of experience.  That’s right, the “pay gap” compares oil rig workers to activists who are trying in vain to convince the world that the “pay gap” exists.

     

    Nope, it doesn’t, actually. Not the part that we’re concerned about.

     

    Perazzo is right that different “life choices” do account for some of the wage gap. But not all of it. According to a 2003 report by the US Government Accountability Office, even after accounting for different work patterns between men and women, and other such factors, there’s still a 20% wage gap.

    http://business.time.com/2012/04/17/should-we-be-celebrating-equal-pay-day-today-or-in-january/

     

    Seriously, do you really think businesses wouldn’t hire women if they could get a 20-30% discount over men?  Seriously???

     

    Yes, seriously. Sexism is like that. Would you rather work under a male CEO, or a female one?

     

    Again, I’ll try to help.  If you REALLY want women to be financially independent and reach the top echelons of business and government take away the feminist welfare punch bowl.  End marriage as we know it.  End divorce as we know it.  End our child abduction, or “custody”, system as we know it.  Implement shared parenting post-separation.  End our so-called “child” support system as we know it. 

     

    We’ll let you take that on. GLBT activists pushed merely for two people to be able to marry, regardless of gender, and got accused of wanting to “utterly annihilate” marriage.

     

    Don’t get married?  Yes, I agree.  But why do you expect men to pay for your meals and nice things like flowers.  Why can’t you pay for those yourself?  And maybe women should start asking men out on dates and paying for their meals and junk.  Hmmm….  I guess feminism is NOT about equality after all.  Oops!!!

     

    Looks like Fleshlight.com is getting another customer!

  • colleen

    Looks like Fleshlight.com is getting another customer!

    I think it’s pretty safe to assume that Mr 99 has been a customer there and/or at competing sites for a long, long time now.

  • anonymous99

    OK.  You got a good laugh out of me on the flesh light thing.  Good one!  If I was a smart ass though I might wonder when sales of flesh lights might catch up with dildo sales.  Trust me when I tell you that we men don’t need you women nearly as much as you think we do, especially not in committed relationships.  Save some type of religious commitment to a higher power there really is no logical reason or benefit for men to get (legally) married, or have children for that matter.  It’s all obligation and sacrifice for men.  Sex workers and a couple snips are a lot cheaper.  And, BTW, this is one of the more important reasons prostitution is illegal.  Legal, safe, affordable paid sex might put an end to “ball-and-chain” marriage all by itself.

     

    Some common ground!  There is a small “pay gap” that can’t be explained.  20% no way, but it is there.  There is no definitive answer as to why.  I’ve heard the thought that women don’t negotiate as much as men.  I don’t know.  There are also studies showing younger women out earn younger men in similar jobs with similar experience.  I’m not going to pretend to fully understand why this is happening.  Can’t we agree though that the “pay gap” Rachel Maddow was talking about is different than the one we’re exploring right now?

     

    Why would you think I’d ever mind working for a woman?  I’ve done so many times over the years.  Why would I mind working for a company with a female CEO?  As I’ve written many times on this site in the past I am quite confident that women are every bit as capable as men.  

     

    Abolishing marriage is an uphill battle.  Yes, I know.

  • anonymous99

    No, although, seriously, I would prefer that over having sex with my wife.  

     

    Isn’t marriage wonderful?  Who could have imagined that ball-and-chaining two people together for life would produce results like this?

  • maiac

    You keep getting down-rated because these tired old (and statistically inaccurate) arguments you are making have been repeatedly de-bunked by many, many posters. But somehow, when it comes down to it rebuttal, your troll-a** disappears. Responding to MRA idiocy is a waste of any committed feminist activist’s time.

     

  • maiac

    Oops!!! FAIL Seriously, genius-who-apparently-can’t-use-Google-to-find-simple-stats….

    Here is the BLS breakdown of median weekly earnings by gender and occupation (note: these ONLY include full-time 40-hour/wk workers). http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat39.htm Please note that men’s median earnings are higher in virtually every occupational category. In case all that text is too confusing for you, here’s some graphics with similar data http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2011/ted_20110914.htm or, if by some highly-unlikely chance you actually understand data, here’s the link to all the BLS wage data. http://www.bls.gov/cps/earnings.htm

     

     

  • maiac

    “Can’t we agree though that the “pay gap” Rachel Maddow was talking about is different than the one we’re exploring right now?”

     

    Yeah, no. This is EXACTLY what Maddow was talking about. Before some a**hat MRA compatriot of yours condescendingly cut her off to tell her no to confuse her pretty little head with the man stuff…

     

  • anonymous99

    So here is what one of YOUR sources says:

    Readers should note that the comparisons of earnings in this report are on a broad level and do not control for many factors that can be significant in explaining earnings differences.”

     

    You see even though the data compares “full-time” employees it turns out that, among this group, men actually work longer hours than women.  This data also does not take into account education and skill level, experience, time off the job for parenting, job conditions, the actual work performed, or anything else for that matter.

     

    I understand this data and issue very well, thank you.  The “wage gap”, as described by Rachel Maddow and you, is bunk.  It just isn’t true.  Any perceived widespread gender bias against women in the workforce is pure fantasy.  

     

    If you want to continue the “woman as victim” narrative on this issue feel free to do so.  Noone is going to stop you.  Just know that fewer and fewer people out there believe this anymore. 

     

    If you’re REALLY interested in advancing the cause for women.  If you’re REALLY interested in knowing how more women can be financially independent and reach the highest levels of business, government, academia, etc, you need to tackle the REAL issues at hand.  The data is clear on one thing and it’s that women do earn at least as much as men, all factors considered, up until many start detaching from the workforce due to motherhood.  The “mommy track” is what’s derailing women in the workforce.  There are many articles and studies on this issue.  I have seen this over-and-over again in my 25 years in the workforce.

     

    Again, I’m trying to be helpful.  Try equalizing paternity leave to maternity leave.  Try breaking down stereotypical gender roles when it comes to caring for children.  Try shared parenting post-separation.  Try things that will move us to equalizing care for children between men and women.  Check out the 1966 charter statement for NOW.  What I’m suggesting is in there.  That’s right, this “troll” is on the same side as NOW was 45 years ago.  Somewhere along the way though women’s advocacy/feminist groups reversed course and thought it was more important to keep fathers out of their kids’ lives.  The result is the numbers in the data you linked too.

  • crowepps

    Trust me when I tell you that we men don’t need you women nearly as much as you think we do, especially not in committed relationships.  Save some type of religious commitment to a higher power there really is no logical reason or benefit for men to get (legally) married, or have children for that matter.  It’s all obligation and sacrifice for men.

    You protested that you’re being labeled a troll, but you don’t seem to grasp it’s because of your obvious misogyny.

    Some men enjoy being in love with women and being loved in return.  Some men like forming a permanent, committed partnership with someone who is willing to share the trials and tribulations of life with them as well as the good times.  Some men even like having and raising children.

    Your disdain for women and your distaste for children may be your own personal preferences but you don’t speak for “men”, only yourself.

  • anonymous99

    So when all else fails make an accusation of mysogyny.  For that you get another “5″.

     

    Make up stuff all you want.  It doesn’t change anything.  Legal marriage is a horrible deal for men.  It’s just all risk and downside.  Even if men do want a committed relationship they’re absolutely crazy to invite the government into their lives through marriage.  Decades of shaming men into marriage has worn thin crowepps.  It used to be accepted that men would sacrifice their lives for women, but those days are numbered.  What has marriage given us?  The loss of our property.  The loss of our income.  We have virtually no right to parent our children.  We’re being abused by our wives and have nowhere to turn.  Pardon my french, but fuck that.  “Marriage” is insidious.

     

    Not that this has anything to do with the original post.  Remember that we got on this tangent because I was wondering why ProChoiceFerret expected men to pay for her meals and flowers.  Based on that she pointed me to the “flesh light”.  Whatever.  I guess not wanting to pay for a woman’s stuff is now mysogyny.  That’s “financial abuse”, right?  Anyway, if you want to get back on point and discuss the “wage gap”, I’m in.