STOKING FIRE: Fame Comes with Anti-Choice Shift

This Easter, 31-year-old Abigail Seidman will take communion as a Roman Catholic for the first time.  Taken alone, this is hardly earth shaking. But Seidman is no ordinary convert. Seidman is the daughter of a former nurse at the Toledo, Ohio Center for Choice, the latest former-feminist to take center stage as an anti-choice activist.

Whether on YouTube, through audio files, or in interviews with conservative columnist Jill Stanek, Seidman trucks out every imaginable cliché to stoke anti-abortion/anti-feminist fervor.  Among her more Onion-esque assertions:

  • The Center for Choice was filled with occult imagery and staff routinely engaged in Wiccan practices, even piping “Goddess chants” into the recovery room;
  • Abortions were performed on women who were not pregnant and staff encouraged one another to conceive so they could have at least one surgery. “You had to have an abortion,” she says. “That was the initiation that everyone shared.”

What’s more, Seidman charges that medical records were altered to allow doctors to operate past legal limits.  Worse, she reports that staff—AKA witches—regularly smoked pot and took hallucinogenic drugs during the workday.

And then Seidman gets personal.  As she tells it, her mom put her on the pill at age 11. According to Jill Stanek, “Rape was a particular obsession of her mom’s and the feminist mantra, ‘Every man is a potential rapist,’ was frequently repeated.” 

Of course, men-as-enemies was just the start of Seidman’s purported indoctrination. Her preposterous claims include the assertion that her mom forced her to have an abortion when she became pregnant at 18, declaring, “You’re part of the sisterhood now,” once the procedure was completed.

Other coming-of-age indignities—these resonate particularly well with her new circle of friends–involve religious oppression. “Until I was five my parents went to church. I loved God,” she says in an audio interview. “My grandfather was a devout Baptist. As my mom became a feminist I was cut off from him and we isolated ourselves from Christians.”   

Her own abortion, she continues, caused tremendous grief, and Seidman tells any-and-all that, before becoming a believer, each anniversary was marked by despair. “I’d been to counseling and was on anti-depressant drugs but nothing was working. When I went online all the post-abortion sites said that healing begins with Jesus. I thought to myself, ‘Jesus won’t accept me,’ but I bought a Bible anyway and started reading. One afternoon I prayed, ‘If you’re out there and if I’m acceptable to you, I will accept you.’ I instantly felt something—a strange feeling… There’s no forgiveness in atheism. The things you do just stack up.”

Seidman’s heartfelt testimony puts her alongside a handful of other anti-choice turncoats, people who have gained fame, and perhaps fortune, by switching sides. Among the most prominent: Norma McCorvey [the original Jane Roe], the late Dr. Bernard Nathanson [a NARAL founder], and Abby Johnson [former Director of a Texas Planned Parenthood affiliate].

It should come as no surprise that people familiar with the Center for Choice during the years that Seidman’s mom worked there [early-to-mid 1990’s] are eager to rebut Abigail’s outlandish claims. Dr. Jeannie Ludlow, a patient advocate from 1996 to 2008, says that the clinic “often sent people from Ohio to Kansas, to Dr. Tiller’s clinic. We wouldn’t have done this if we were willing to go over the legal [time] limit.”

Similarly, Rachelle Lerch, on staff since 1991, says that, “ We’ve always sent patients away to think about the decision when we don’t think they’re ready to have an abortion. We give them a workbook and contact them a few days later to discuss what they want to do.”

Seidman’s derision of the Center angers and saddens both Lerch and Ludlow. At the same time they wonder about the psychological underpinnings of her Rightwing ascension. They’ve also begun to question why antis who become pro-choice are not heralded in the same way as those moving from pro to anti-choice, especially since this shift happens with shocking regularity. 

Indeed, clinicians across the U.S. report that anti-choicers often change sides when they, or someone they love, needs an abortion. Sometimes, they even write letters to the people they’ve harassed. “As a child I believed abortion was a black/white issue. Because of my naiveté, not to mention the influence of a Catholic school, I protested at your clinic. I am ashamed that I once treated people so harshly,” wrote MK to the Allentown’s Women’s Center.

According to Vicki Saporta, President and CEO of the National Abortion Federation, “Some anti-abortion patients think of themselves as different from other women and go right back out to protest against the clinic after their surgery. Others will apologize for making life miserable for patients and staff, saying that when they needed an abortion they were amazed by the compassion they were shown. These people typically admit that they have new respect for the women obtaining reproductive healthcare and the women providing it.”

Nonetheless, Saporta concedes that she can remember only one instance in which a person going from anti to pro-choice was given media attention. “We don’t spend a single minute trying to recruit people to our position,” she says, “Clinicians focus on care-giving.”

That said, anti-abortion stigma clearly contributes to silencing former antis. Merle Hoffman, founder/President of Choices Women’s Medical Center, quips: “When they go from pro-choice to anti-choice they’re following a redemptive paradigm. They see themselves transformed from sinners to saints. The opposite doesn’t have the same cache.”

True enough.

The task then, is to shift the paradigm: After all, pro-choice is pro-life.

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  • plume-assassine

    The Center for Choice was filled with occult imagery and staff routinely engaged in Wiccan practices, even piping “Goddess chants” into the recovery room;

    Abortions were performed on women who were not pregnant and staff encouraged one another to conceive so they could have at least one surgery. “You had to have an abortion,” she says. “That was the initiation that everyone shared.”

    This is hilariously ludicrous. Do they have a handbook to work from? You know, one that urges them to follow the line that all pro-choicers are atheists/wiccans/pagans? Apparently, she also does not understand what choice means: Anyone who pressures someone into having a medical procedure as an “initiation rite” is a. as obviously anti-choice as any “pro-lifer” and b. insane. I don’t believe this barf-worthy, over-the-top garbage for a second. Maybe her own mother was that insane/abusive, but no doctor or nurse would pressure someone into having an abortion to be part of a “sisterhood.” I would not be surprised if Seidman experienced abuse at some point in her life, and the crazed anti-choicers latched onto her emotional vulnerability in order to further exploit her and feed her lies. They can smell vulnerability from miles away. Typical.

  • beenthere72

    I am 100% pro-life from conception to natural death with absolutely no exceptions.

    I believe that laws with “exceptions” are fundamentally flawed and I do not support them, because they help to promote cultural biases against the persons named in the “exception” (i.e., people conceived in rape or incest, people with disabilities), and cultural pressures on mothers in difficult situations (such as grave illness) to choose death for their children. I do support incremental anti-abortion and anti-euthanasia laws provided that they do not single out groups of people for stigmatization.

    Criminalization of abortion would give women who are being coerced into abortion (upwards of 60%) more freedom to seek alternatives and escape abusive situations. I support strong criminal penalties both for people who perform abortions, and men and women who seek or receive abortions.


    Cultural biases and cultural pressures?  Bullshit.  This woman is not pro-life.

  • crowepps

     cultural pressures on mothers in difficult situations (such as grave illness) to choose death for their children.

    It’s SO MUCH BETTER to criminalize abortion and have society choose death for those mothers — since, you know, that’s just a side effect of using forced unwanted pregnancy to help OTHER women get out of abusive relationships.  It’s all about helping women!  And if they are helped to death, well, sacrifices have to be made!

    ‘It became necessary to destroy the town to save it,’ a United States major said today. He was talking about the decision by allied commanders to bomb and shell the town regardless of civilian casualties, to rout the Vietcong.


  • ldan

    Along with the ridiculous idea that women with grave illnesses are merely succumbing to cultural pressure (like..the cultural reverence for preferring to not die due to pregnancy?), is the delusional idea that upwards of 60% of abortions are coerced. What?


    I mean, I get where that’s a nice idea for that crowd to toss out there. Then they can actually have some cover for the idea that they’re helping women. But where the hell could they find that number?

  • crowepps
  • ldan

    Thanks for the reminder. I did see that when it came out too.


    The endless lies and distortions are so old.

  • ahunt

    This woman cannot be credible.


    Abortions were performed on women who were not pregnant and staff encouraged one another to conceive so they could have at least one surgery. “You had to have an abortion,” she says. “That was the initiation that everyone shared.”

  • elburto

    I’m really stuck on “abortions on women who weren’t pregnant”, WTF? No ZBEF=no termination of said ZBEF, surely?

    She must have access to some great crack.

  • forced-birth-rape

    “This Easter, 31-year-old Abigail Seidman will take communion as a Roman Catholic for the first time.”

    “And then Seidman gets personal. As she tells it, her mom put her on the pill at age 11. According to Jill Stanek, “Rape was a particular obsession of her mom’s and the feminist mantra, ‘Every man is a potential rapist,’ was frequently repeated.” “

    ~ Since Abigail Seidman is so traumatized that her mother did not want her to get raped, the child raping catholic church is a fabulous organization for her to join. They do not worry or care anything about rape, so I am sure abigail will feel more comfortable among them. ~

    ~ And since being anti-rape traumatize her so much she should be relieved to know the ten commandments does not say, do not rape. And Jesus Christ never said, do not rape. ~

    ~ I grew up in a southern baptist family, my grandfather was a southern baptist preacher, my father was a deacon and Sunday school teacher at my grandfathers church, we went to church three times a week. ~

    ~ We learned
    A wife cannot refuse her husband sex ever, if her husband rapes her it is not rape. If her husband beats her it is her fault for not being submissive enough, she cannot divorce her husabnd for anything other then adultery. My southern baptist christian father beat my teenage mother in the face when I was a baby for me crying because I was sick. ~

    ~ Baptist are fixated, consumed with female submission, who besides christian men are fixated with female submission? Answer, men who own sex-slaves.~

    ~ She bought a bible, did the dumb-ass hypocrite along with her no integrity pro-forced-birth sister christian women read the bible verses that say. ~

    Genesis 3:16
    I will greatly multiply your grief and your suffering in pregnancy and the pangs of childbearing; with spasms of distress you will bring forth children. Yet your desire and cravings will be for your husband, and he will rule over you. ~

    ~ Basically bible Christian god is using pregnancy and childbirth to sexually terrorize and sexually torture women and girls for being born female. The same thing pro-lifers are doing to women and little girls. ~

    ~ Did the no integrity christian girl read where bible god is a baby killer himself, and is not pro-life. ~

    Hosea 13: 16
    “Samaria shall bear her guilt and become desolate, for she rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword, their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women shall be ripped up.”

    1 Samuel 15:3
    Now go and smite Amalek and utterly destroy all they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.

    Exodus 11:4-5:
    And Moses said, thus says the Lord, about midnight I will go out into Egypt; and all the firstborn in the land [the pride hope and joy] of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sits on his throne, even the firstborn of the maidservant who is behind the hand mill, and all the firstborn of beasts.

    Psalms 137:9 Happy and blessed shall he be who takes and dashes your little ones against a rock!

    Numbers 31:17
    Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who is not a virgin.

    Numbers 31:18
    But all the young girls who have not known a man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves. The Christian god telling soldiers to rape thirteen year old and twelve year old virgins.

    ~ If these bible verses are not true then I am going to say the Ten Commandments is not true also, because it is in the Old Testament too. ~

    ~ Since the bible is pro-men rulling over women, and women being submissive to their husbands. Of course republican christians are going to be anti-feminism, because feminism is pro-womens-rights, and dignity, something the bible sure is not. ~

    Ephesians 5:24
    As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands.

    1 Peter 3:1
    In like manner, you married women, be submissive to your husbands [subordinate yourselves as being secondary to and dependent on them, and adapt yourselves to them]

    1 Peter 3 : 6
    It was thus that Sarah obeyed Abraham [following his guidance and acknowledging his headship over her by] calling him lord (master, leader, authority). ~

    Exodus 21:7
    If a man sells his daughter to be a maidservant or bondwoman, she shall “not” go out [in six years] as menservants do. Women have no right to be free, but men do.

    ~ Leviticus 12:2
    If a woman bears a man-child, she shall be unclean seven days.

    Leviticus 12: 5
    But if the child she bears is a girl, then she shall be unclean two weeks as in her periodic impurity. ~ Boy babies are superior to girl babies.

    ~ Pro-lifers have the lest amount of integrity out of all the liars in the world. ~

  • beenthere72

    This is probably the only time that I will tell anybody to watch a video on Fox News, but you must listen to this interview with Dr. Unruh:



    I’m pleasantly surprised someone is actually talking sense over at Fox.


    I should warn you – it’s going to REALLY piss you off.



  • elburto

    I was raised by evangelical christians, although the british type (even the ones in our american salt and fire type church) are not as scary as american ones. That meant my mum was still a feminist, so was my dad, and I was told “abortion is between a woman and her doctor”.

    But, only for the last year have I been truly ‘free’ of the brainwashing. However, I found the further I moved away from my religious past, the better I felt. The depression that had tortured me since childhood lifted. I no longer worried about offending the sensibility of some higher being. Uh started to live to serve my fellow people instead, giving reproductive health advice and support, and engaging in activism. Life has never felt better.

  • forced-birth-rape

    ~ Fox News is a propaganda machine for the American christian taliban, the child raping catholic church, the wife-beating southern baptist convention, the ku klux klan, or you could call them their new name, the tea party, and the Koch brothers. ~

    ~ Pro-life men are men who want to rape, sexually terrorize, and sexually torture women and little girls. They use fetuses as their sexual torture instruments on women and little girls. Women suffering in childbirth was a great joke and amusement to my father. ~

  • crowepps

    It doesn’t have anything to do with being CREDIBLE — it has to do with putting on a really good show for the ProLife patsies so they’ll keep sending in those donations.  This woman has the same kind of whackaloonie act that Glen Beck got rich doing — whoever leads her around and manages her show for the flatties is going to make a FORTUNE!


    ‘Freak shows’ and visiting the asylum or prisons is no longer politically correct, but by golly if somebody is absolutely flat-out delusional and has a really bizarre conspiracy theory about witchcraft and feminism, that’s still perfectly okay.

  • freetobe

    This article brought the beast out in me again the beast the so-called pro-life WOMEN whom I think someone should do brain scans on to determine what is wrong with them. Other than that first let me say I am an animal activist first a womens activist second, as an animal activist i know the pain of seeing baby animals such as calves ripped alive from their still alive mothers for tanins to make expensive leather and seeing baby chicks with no momma around to warm them, baby lambs and calves taken from their crying mothers at birth for the veal and lamb industry and then slaughtered as babies. All  broiler chickens slaughtered at 45 days of life BABIES!  So I understand the pain that some SOME true pro-lifers feel about human babies being aborted. I can sympathize with you.

    What I don’t understand is women who are so uncaring and unfeeling for other women who don’t have a heart or any compassion for a living breathing woman suffering in sheer poverty and cannot afford to feed herself much less anymore children.

    How can these women not know how hard life is for the rest of us and not understand how crippling this world is for women to get ahead at all?

    Just because they may find the strenthg to carry a pregnancy to term and either raise the baby or give it up for adoption does not mean the ALL women can do this.

    So shame on all of you and I am going to use a term i find offensive to women but not these women- BITCHES that is what they are they remind me of a strict mother type ,narcicissts,my way or the highway type just plain bitches! I think women who care about making choices need to get a hold a firm grip on these bitches and set them straight!

    They are making life much harder on all of us women than we deserve and how dare those bitches!  You will not shame me ever you are the cowards who hide behind men and wealth.  You do not understand how giving an inch will make them take miles until women have no more freedom at all and dammit I take care of myself it has been hard but I would not give up that freedom unless i was killed over it!

    So bitches watch out for me you don’t want to mess with me!!!!!! You never know what corner i may be lurking on. How does that feel BITCHES?

    thanks for letting me rant on here I really needed too let it out before I really might lurk around corners…..

  • stjohnspatriot

    Dear Freetobe,

    I feel your deep sense of compassion for animals and to some extent that for unborn babies.  The women and men and children you see standing outside the abortion mills are not there to condemn.  They are there to pray for the end to the slaughter of thousands of innocents every year and for the hearts of those who perform the abortions to be changed. 

    Many of the pro-abortion persuasion tend to paint the worst possible picture for the prospects of women dealing with a crisis pregnancy.  With so many couples yearning to adopt a child and in this country especially, the mother need not face this crisis alone and her baby need not live a life in poverty or as an unwanted child.  There are shelters and homes all over the country now who will take in women dealing with a crisis pregnancy to support her, whether she elects to keep her baby or put the child up for adoption. 

    If only you knew and if only the people struggling with this issue knew how abundantly God loves us, if they knew that God has a plan for each of us, that every human life is precious from the moment of conception to natural death, there would not be abortion.  You are in my prayers.


  • goatini

    Now comes Mr “Patriot”, insulting all women everywhere by attempting to forcibly impose his radical fundamentalist religious cult superstitions on us, with his favored persuasion technique of “you don’t agree with me, but you WOULD if ONLY you ‘knew’ what my made-up abusive parent magical Sky Daddy has ‘planned’ for you!!”


    He thinks that women should have NO plans for their own selves.  He thinks that women should remain empty, to wait for Mr Man to come along and own them.  He thinks women are containers, that need to be filled by Manly Mr Men like him.  

    Mr “Patriot” should better spend his time “praying” to his imaginary friend to fertilize the barren wombs and blank-shooting members of the “yearning couples” who think you should be forced into involuntary servitude for 9 months with a high risk medical condition, to p00p them out a baby for free from your E-Z-Bake Baby Oven.  

  • forced-birth-rape


    “The women and men and children you see standing outside the abortion mills are not there to condemn.”  

    ~ Yes they are! They are sadomasochistic sexual harassers, harassing scared pregnant women and little girls. ~

    “They are there to pray for the end to the slaughter of thousands of innocents every year and for the hearts of those who perform the abortions to be changed.” 

    ~ They are there to terrorize scared pregnant women, little girls, raped women, and raped little girls.

    No one has the right to life if that right cause a women or little girl unwanted extreme vaginal pain. No ones right to life gives them the right to terrorize a woman or little girl for nine months with dread and worry of having extreme unwanted vaginal pain. No ones right to life gives them the right to be in a womans or little girls body against her will and use her body against her will. ~

    “With so many couples yearning to adopt a child and in this country especially, the mother need not face this crisis alone and her baby need not live a life in poverty or as an unwanted child.”

    ~ Womens and little girls bodies and vaginas do not owe people who can not have children a child, just like womens and little girls bodies and vaginas do not owe pimps anything. Women and little girls are just cunts to pro-lifers, just like they are just cunts to pimps. ~  

    “If only you knew and if only the people struggling with this issue knew how abundantly God loves us, if they knew that God has a plan for each of us, that every human life is precious from the moment of conception to natural death, there would not be abortion.  You are in my prayers.”

    ~ I grew up a christian and prayed to bible christian god to help me as a sexually abused child, and he did not get off his self-oppointed-throne and come help me. I guess it was just his plan for me to be a child-sex-toy for gross creeps. ~

    ~ There is not enough physical, emotional, and vaginal pain to befall women and little girls to satisfy the pro-forced-birther, christian- republicans pornographic pregnancy and birth fetish. ~

  • equalist

    It is not a woman’s duty to create and carry a blonde haired, blue eyed, perfect white baby for some good christian couple she has never met.  Yes, some women (myself included, and he was blonde haired (it’s darker now) and blue eyed, and white and perfect) do choose this hard road for themselves and their children, but it is by no means a requirement of any kind, and for all those couples so desperate to have a child to love and raise, there’s millions of children just waiting in foster care to be loved and raised by real parents.  Most of those children are some shade of brown, many of them are disabled, and a large majority of them aren’t the precious little babies adoptive couples tend to focus on though, so while people like you Patriot focus on keeping those sinful little whores pumping out cute little babies for good christian couples to adopt and raise as their own, millions of children in foster care suffer just wishing someone would even look at them as an option.

  • arekushieru

    Holy SHIT. Did that interviewer with Dr. Unruh just say he disagreed with the fact that this did not infringe on a woman’s right to choose a legal procedure??? Am I living in bizarro world???

  • crowepps

    With so many couples yearning to adopt a child and in this country especially

    Are those ‘good Christian homes’?  Like this one:

    Tommy Pitts, the pastor at the Midway Assembly of God Church, was arrested on April 1 on a slew of rape and sex abuse charges against three children.

    Police said Pitts was arrested on 15 counts of first-degree rape, 15 counts of rape by instrumentation, 20 counts of lewd or indecent acts with children under 16 and 20 counts of forcible sodomy. He is on suicide watch, police said.


    Investigators said the abuse went on for months.


    “I would say that everyone is in shock,” Major County District Attorney’s Office Investigator Robert Banks said.


    Banks said the pastor’s wife noticed some unusual behavior in her husband and decided to launch her own investigation.


    “She then confronted the husband. The husband confirmed some of her suspicions,” Banks said.

    The three girls in question were ADOPTED by the pastor and his wife.

  • arekushieru

    Good on the pastor’s wife, though!  She’s like a breath of fresh air.  She literally saved those children.  The abuse has ended, hopefully they will be able to begin their recovery, soon!

  • arekushieru

    Abortion mills?  Do you not see how completely this exposes your limited view of women as livestock?  Abortion is something done TO women, women are merely passive bodies that have no autonomous will to make their own decisions. Sex, pregnancy and childbirth are just things that ‘happen’ to women.  Women are subject to someone else’s urges, undergo a process and return to subject themselves to the same urges.  Rinse. Repeat.  Unfortunately, CPCs are more correctly known as adoption and slave-trafficking mills, since they only provide one service, stigmatization, otherwise known as ‘slut-shaming’. Their services come with a higher price than monetary.  And once you’ve fulfilled your role, you’re on your own.  Planned Parenthood, on the other hand, not only provides abortion services (at a reduced rate and which only account for THREE percent of the services they provide), it provides preventative and screening services and it provides them with simple compassion and humanity.  Abortion isn’t slaughter.  Fetuses are neither innocent nor guilty.

    We are not ‘Pro-Abortion’.  We are Pro-Choice.  You are accusing us of being just as anti-choice as you are.  A woman is not a mother, until she has taken a baby home from the hospital.  You think it is so simple for a woman to turn over a baby, that as a fetus she carried inside her body for nine months, to (a) prospective adoptive parent(s)?  Wow, you have no idea what compassion is, do you? Coerced relinquishment, which is CPCs only goal, causes more trauma and depression than an abortion, especially when relinquishment, itself, is a very difficult choice for many women.  CPCs care nothing for you once they have achieved their above-stated goal.

    If only you knew how a loving God would despise the acts the anti-choice crowd impose on a woman’s body, how He despises such utilitarian practices. If God is omnipotent, part of His plan may be to bring that ‘unborn soul’ home to Him.  God considers every part of every life precious, that women cannot be precious if their body is turned into a utilitarian means for production and measurement of life.  I am a Christian, and I say keep your hateful prayers off of me.

  • freetobe

    While I appreciate your wanting to pray for my soul I am good with Jesus have been since I was a child. I am a survivor I do not need anyones help. I do not ask for anyones help.

    I think you should start praying for the GOP and the Tea baggers who are being led by Satan and are ready to commit pre-mededitated  mass murder of millions of poor,sick and weak people! Yes I said murder! It is they who my prayers are for. Talk about euthanaisa and death panels. They don’t care about anyone but themslves and their money. False gods comes to mind. Let me guess you are on their side because of all the fetuses? What abut the living born people? Some so sick they will die soon is that what you want too?

    You see I don’t trust you or anyone else for that matter, call it life.

    I also was an adopted child and I can tell you even if I had wonderful adopted parents (there was also some problems which I will not reveal)

    I still am scared for life by this! I do not appreciate you or anyone else even remotely asking any woman to forgo her life -sacrifice her life to provide a  baby for adoption EVER! I would rather have been aborted to tell you the truth. Shocked? You have the truth right from the source how do like that?

    You people do harrass women you have been doing it since roe vs wade. How would you like it if everytime you went to the grocery store you ran into me outside picketing don’t eat the animals PLEEZE save the animals and then hold up those horrific pictures I have MILLIONS of them to shame you to death! How would you like that? keep it up…..

    You never know who may be lurking….

  • beenthere72

    FBIR, did you listen to the interview?  I don’t watch or listen to Fox News, but I had googled Dr. Unruh and found this interview and for once, maybe only once,  someone from Fox was on OUR side.   

  • beenthere72
  • saltyc

    I should warn you – it’s going to REALLY piss you off.


    Actually I got a good laugh out of it.

    — dr Unruh: “What if your mother had aborted you?”

    — pro-choice radio guy: “Then there’d be a much better host to this show I guarantee it.”

    — dr. Unruh: “did you know that 100% of people who support abortion have been born?”

    — pro-choice radio guy: “that is an amazing statistic. Let me write that down.”

  • rebellious-grrl

    Freetobe, great rant!

  • beenthere72

    LOL yeah, I think it was the end of the conversation that really got me – when Dr. Unruh was pretty much saying women are dumb and we can’t think for ourselves so we need to be ‘protected’. 

  • ldan



    Plus all of the messed up adopted folks I’ve known growing up and currently. Of the many people I grew up with who were adopted, and know now, I can point to two that are well-adjusted and don’t have a large chunk of drama and emotional upheaval in their lives directly and indirectly relating to being adopted.This isn’t to say that they’re miserable, or should have been aborted or anything. But it does say that adoption isn’t automatically happy, shiny rainbows.


    Plus my college friend whose mother, while a child ward of the fine state of Louisiana, was raped, forced to give birth, and forced to hand the kid over for adoption. She was told that he ended up with a good family, only to learn a few decades later that he’d bounced in and out of foster care and jail. She learned this when spotting his name in the newspaper as he was put away for life on a murder conviction.


    While I know that not every adoption goes wrong, the statistics are such that I can see women being more than a little wary of that option. Besides, there is no way I’d be willing to give up a chile and risk it ending up in the repressive hell of these right-wing evangelical households. (tip, several of those messed up adoptees I know came through precisely that route.)

  • saltyc

    It was good for me to see this guy’s approach (whose name I could not find, they just said Alan, but they have three different Alan’s on the Fox site.)


    I do practice debating pro-lifers, who regularly sit in front of my local Planned Parenthood.  Because someone needs to challenge them and because it sharpens my debating “skills.” And I have to try not to get heated or upset because then they latch on to that and treat me like a hysterical woman. (Like our lives are not at stake here) and enjoy saying taht I’m mad because I really regret my abortion but don’t want to admit it.

    I hate letting them have that satifsaction, of pissing me off. This radio host didn’t have any personal issues at stake so he could have a sense of humor about it. I have to admit I only listened to the first half though.

  • ldan

    If every human life is precious from the moment of conception, why does your God allow so many of these precious lives to never even implant? Millions of them are washed away in blood every month.


    And I’m sorry, have you watched protestors much? Have you seen the signs they carry? You have a strange definition of condemnation if you don’t see it there.

  • beenthere72

    Listen to the whole thing!    It’s Alan Colmes:



    The PP nurse that calls in is especially patient with Unruh as well.    It’s hard for me to believe that wasn’t planned.

  • saltyc

    Not everyone wants to create a child you can’t be there to protect. Me, for instance, When I was pregnant and decided to have an abortion was not long after Joel Steinberg was still in the local papers for beating his adopted daughter to death. Sure that was a rare case but I don’t agree with the way I see a lot of Americans treat their children. They expect them to develop socially far earlier than they can. They want to cow them, to make them conform to their ideals. I don’t believe in spanking, whereas most Americans do. I truly believed and still believe that my child was not “there” yet, and why bring him or her “here” if I couldn’t do my best to give them a good start?

    And as for my own self-interest, I was so emotionally fragile and alone, with issues of abandonment going on, that to spend 9 months growing a child only to give it away was something I knew would break me. And research does bear it out, that having a child takes a far greater toll on mental health than an early, safe and legal abortion does.

    From the day Michele gave up her baby, says her mother, Anita, who agreed with her daughter’s adoption decision, “I watched her diminish from a caring, concerned, sensitive human. At first she became a workaholic, she partied too hard, drank too much. She had this whole facade of ‘you can’t hurt me.’ We had terrible arguments.”,,20118563,00.html


    I’m not against adoption if it’s something you want to do. I am against coerced adoption or trying to second-guess a woman’s decision against it in favor of an abortion.

  • goatini

    HERE is what those like Mr “Patriot” REALLY are all about – they ARE into condemning – condemning living, breathing CITIZENS to DEATH:

    “At the same time that Roeder was ‘counseling’ on the sidewalk–trying to talk women out of having abortions–he was beginning to determine if there was a ‘window of opportunity’ that would leave the doctor exposed. He testified that for years he had been mulling over how and where Tiller could be murdered–at the clinic, could the doctor be hit with a car, or shot ‘sniper’ style from a rooftop?”

  • lauraj400

    who molest their daughters are bio fathers.

  • lauraj400

    cases where the natural mother got the kid back from adoptive parents and within 6 months killed the kid.there some mothers who SHOULD lose their kids.

  • goatini

    but his radio show is syndicated, and it airs on my local progressive talk radio station. (Yes… I know how lucky I am to live in an area that HAS a progressive talk radio station… ). I subscribe to his podcast, and I enjoy listening to him. He’s a liberal who takes on the mouth-breathing trogs every night.

    I was listening to his Wednesday show last night on the way home from work, and I had just gotten to the ACLU “Incorporate Your Uterus” woman when I got home. I’ll listen to his interview with her, and the nutbag calls afterwards, which will, as usual, range from obdurate to frightening, on the way in today.

    I sometimes wonder if Colmes and The Simpsons are Murdoch’s sops to his conscience….

  • crowepps

    risk it ending up in the repressive hell of these right-wing evangelical households

    You’d think, considering the tight correlations between fundamentalism and child abuse and religiosity and mental illness, that adoption agencies would just screen those families out right at the beginning.  Everybody keeps insisting that there is a huge demand and many adoptive homes are available.  If that is so, why not choose optimal homes where children are less likely to be mistreated?

  • rebellious-grrl

    Great interview! I love it when the interviewer asked Dr. Unruh (paraphrased) “Are you protecting women from making their own decisions?”

    I wish more commentators would fight for us like this. Yes, liberty and freedom for women!

  • therealistmom

    or by sheer number? Because if it is by sheer number (which I’m betting it is) that’s simply due to the fact that there’s a lot more families with the bio father involved than there are families with adoptive children.


    It doesn’t change the fact there are sick bastards out there who adopt to get their hands on children for awful purposes, or for all the wrong reasons.


    Besides, if more “bio dads” rape their children, isn’t that ALL THE MORE REASON for women not to give birth in a less than ideal home situation?

  • crowepps

    There are some women who shouldn’t have had kids in the first place.  Unfortunately, many ProLife organizations are trying to prevent those women from having access to birth control and sterilization.

  • rebellious-grrl

    Mr “Patriot”, save your proselytizing for some other site. Yep, your “preying” on women alright. And bullying too. Every life is precious, eh? And babies are soooo precious? (Yes you are sensing sarcasm) Is that why so many children are living in poverty? “Over 15 million American children live in families with incomes below the federal poverty level, which is $22,050 a year for a family of four.1 The number of children living in poverty increased by 33 percent between 2000 and 2009. There are 3.8 million more children living in poverty today than in 2000.” (Stats from the National Center for Children in Poverty.) If Christians actually practiced what Jesus taught there wouldn’t be poverty. Jesus never said anything about abortion. There is no mention in the bible of abortion. So quit using religion to try to exercise your power and control over women. We can see right through your bullshit. 

  • crowepps

    A lot of these guys don’t get caught until the wife walks in on them in the act or there’s a pregnancy.  There are many children being sexually abused that nobody knows about.  Any attempt to put together statistics has to TRY to compensate for cases that haven’t yet been discovered and cases that have been discovered but are hushed up because of a horror of ‘scandal’.


    Interviewing adult children about their childhood experience seems to yield the most accurate information, and on that basis, every wild-eyed screaming fundamentalist lunatic in the country who believes they have a biblical mandate to ‘break the child’s spirit’ ought to have their children removed immediately.

  • therealistmom

    I’ve never made it past the first fifteen minutes, myself.


    I totally agree with you on all these points, which is why trying to say either group has “more” sexual abuse going on is futile unless a solid study of survivors came forth, which isn’t likely in the least. I suspect that its even MORE difficult for adult survivors from a fundamentalist mindset to relate their experiences, because they have been taught to “submit”, respect their parents in ALL THINGS, and particularly for women, blame it on themselves and the “sinful nature” that these beliefs convince women they possess.

  • ldan

    It would be nice if they even did that much for foster homes, much less adoptive ones.

  • catseye71352

    Well, let’s require this wackjob to carry an ectopic pregnancy to term.