(UPDATED) Rolling Stone Asks Justin Bieber About Abortion and Rape? Oh, Thank God!


Updated, 2/17/11, 3:33pm EST with a quote from Bitch Magazine’s Andi Zeisler.

Justin Bieber is on the cover of Rolling Stone – set to hit stands and online on February 18th (for all of you RH Reality Check/Justin Bieber fans!). The 15-year-old pop mega-star is asked about the usual RS star-topics: music, movies, politics and sex. But Bieber is also questioned about his positions on more controversial issues; namely abortion and rape. Since the issue isn’t available yet, I’m only going on what’s been teased on the web site:

He does have a solid opinion on abortion. “I really don’t believe in abortion,” Bieber says. “It’s like killing a baby?” How about in cases of rape? “Um. Well, I think that’s really sad, but everything happens for a reason. I don’t know how that would be a reason. I guess I haven’t been in that position, so I wouldn’t be able to judge that.”

Despite what you may think, I’m actually not bothered by his position on abortion (other than the fact that he seems to question what it even is). I think his thoughts on abortion and rape are the thoughts of a sheltered 15-year-old pop star who hasn’t been taught to think about women or women’s health in a mature or nuanced way. I think it’s frightening that his opinions will obviously affect many of his fans’ thoughts on the issue. Honestly, though, I don’t feel like Justin Bieber needs to expound upon women’s health and rights from a place of expertise (someone needs to teach him the “no comment” rule though if he hasn’t bothered to construct a coherent opinion).

As Andi Zeisler, Editorial and Creative Director for Bitch Magazine noted in an email on the subject,

“I can’t necessarily fault Bieber for being uninformed, though I do think it’s sad — if you’ve read any coverage about him, it’s clear that he has very, very little contact with the real world. I do fault the reporter for asking a question that doesn’t need to be asked of a sheltered millionaire pop star, one that may well affect the beliefs of the girls who worship Bieber.”[emphasis mine]

 

The more interesting question to ponder here, then, is:

Just why in the name of conservative, Christian, teen-stars do we need to know Justin Bieber’s “opinion on abortion” in the first place?  Why do Bieber fans care what his personal feelings are about whether women, young women or older women, “should” be able to have an abortion? Or whether a girl or woman who has been raped and impregnated by her attacker should have the right to an abortion? Why should anyone care?

Yes, he’s got the squeaky-clean pop star thing going on and it’s certainly sensationalistic for the magazine to bring up these issues. But I’m asking why the interviewer thought to even ask the abortion and rape question in the first place; why does she even believe it’s okay to ask a 15-year-old about what are some of the most personal experiences imaginable?

Oh, right. Because we’ve arrived at a place in time where women’s and girls’ health and lives are up for public debate and dialogue everywhere we turn. The GOP has turned, with the passive help of the Democrats, women and girls into political issues. 

We are no longer allowed to make our own personal decisions about our health and lives, from the privacy of our homes, or in our doctor’s offices. We’re no longer allowed the autonomy to chose safe, legal abortion or to decide, if we are raped, what to do. Not only have our bodies become a political “issue” to be picked apart on the public stage, but our actual right-to-live is up for political debate?

There is a beautiful video that’s gone viral in response to Iowa’s same-sex marriage fight. An 80-year-old white-haired outspoken grandmother to whom I may have built a shrine in my living room last night, a third-generation Iowan, speaks to her legislators in a homemade video about her gay son and his partner. She discusses the multi-year process through which she struggled to accept her son and his sexuality. Towards the end, she looks directly into the camera and says, “My son is not an issue. He’s a person.” It’s like opening a valve – you just want to sob with joy.

This is the way I feel. Women and girls are not issues. We’re human beings. I’m so tired of seeing male legislators use my own personal, private decisions whether or not to continue a pregnancy as a political tool. I want to be able to go to a hospital – yes, any hospital if my insurance or geographical region does not give me options – and have my life saved like anyone else. I want to be able to be treated for a rape or access an abortion if I’m pregnant from a rape without needing to prove that the rape was “forcible enough” for the male legislators who constructed the bill. Telling young girls who become pregnant as a result of rape or incest that it’s not a good enough reason to terminate a pregnancy -  is not inherently a political issue that needs to be debated by the entirety of society. We’re allowing all of society to have a say in how individuals handle their own personal, private health and medical decisions?

Asking a 15-year-old male pop star what his “opinion” is about whether I or any other woman should be able to make the best decisions and choices for myself and my family is a consequence of where we are right now in regards to the politics of reproductive justice in this country. I’m sort of glad Justin Bieber seemed so shaky in his answer. it shows how uncomfortable he clearly was with the question. And why not? As Bieber says, “I guess I haven’t been in that position, so I wouldn’t be able to judge that.” The fact is, he’ll never be in the position of needing or wanting an abortion or having been impregnated as the result of a rape  – as the majority of the rash of anti-choice bills’ sponsors never will either. It hasn’t stopped our political culture from presiding over these decisions for all women and girls.  

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  • wolfwytch

    I always loved that whole “I don’t believe in *insert topic here*”, especially when said topic is abortion or gay-rights. How can you disblieve something that’s right in front of your face?!

     

    Don’t like it? Sure, that’s fine, there are plenty of things out there I don’t like.
    Don’t agree with the idea/procedure? Yup, I can handle that too, as I don’t much agree with some ideas.

     

    But disbelieving it is like choosing to believe in the Tooth Fairy, and then being mad when “she didn’t give me money for my kids’ teeth”!

    *sigh*

    It’s early here, I ought not to be so damned snarky… :)

  • anyse

    Using Justin Bieber in this way is foolish for the Rolling Stone. It is a casual injustice on their part (they are trying to be “cute”) and a great injustice on the part of women in America to treat this topic so trivially!

     

    Women are losing more and more access to abortion with every session of Congress since the Republicans have run with the political football. Less funding, abortion doctors who are too scared in some areas and and the misleading xtians who strive to move us away from the abortion clinics to “teach” us how bad we are and that God will punish us. This is more than sickening, it KILLS!

     

    They just don’t “get” it as they spew their own theology (this is what is behind it all is xtian “values”) and then spin it into political power (with 45% now believing in creationism, what kind of “education” do these people have other than a Bible under their arms and “faith” to guide them?). There is, now, no separation of church and state. When will women in this country stand together, as workers have in Wisconson for union rights, to help ALL of our sisters to have this right that was so costly to gain and all too easily being undermined by men in power?

     

    This country needs to wake up. Women need to work together and I mean ALL women: gay, straight, transgendered, bisexual, any race, any color, any creed without division! Doing this, at least half of the US population can be motivated to strike for just one week and we would have the Congress on their kness as the political fallout comes from a sagging economy (remember, women have money as well!).

     

    We shall see. As the Congress and the right-wingers work their magic, maybe we women can get up the cahones to take a stand for 7 or 14 days to see what it would wreak upon this nation. Only about 10% of the population of Egypt toppled Mubarek in a couple of weeks. You would think that about 50% would accomplish as much if not more in the US.

  • bluetigress

    Bieber should just stick to spewing whatever the Disney Media Machine wants pushed in any given interview.

    Justin Biber, private citizen, is of course allowed to believe however he chooses. This is every American’s right.

    Justin Bieber, pop star, should just stick to whatever talking points he is handed.

  • princess-rot

    He does have a solid opinion on abortion. “I really don’t believe in abortion,” Bieber says. “It’s like killing a baby?”

     

    I’m with WolfWytch on this one. I’ve often thought that saying you don’t “believe” in abortion is rather like saying you don’t “believe” in hydrogen atoms. It’s all around, and very common, but you can’t see it and the people who really know about it don’t want to discuss it with you because you are unwilling to listen and learn.

  • nt

    I understand your concerns for raped women and their rights to abortion. But I hope you realize that it is not only the “men” in power that want to ban this procedure… There are a lot of women who want to as well… There are many ways to prevent unwanted pregnancies and many women especially with medicaid transform the right to abort into their form of birth control… 

     

    It’s in cases where rape occurs that I personally become neutral on the matter because those women didn’t voluntarily get into bed with a guy… Abstinence is not realistic nowadays but having sex comes with its consequences and responsiblities…

     

    The “its our health” argument on women’s behalf is junk. The babies are not guilty that many women in today’s society forget that sex is the act of reproduction… and not the act of pleasure as you all may think. I am a woman… A teen mom… and i would not even for a day rally up to defend “rights” that are unfair… All the complaints and the ignorant “concerns” of these women are really mind boggling… even with the government slowly getting rid of abortion… there are still many people (male and female) advocating for women’s “rights”… who’s advocating for the babies’ rights?

     

    Why instead of pro abortion don’t we all come together to become pro contraception? I think abortion (except in the case of rape) should be illegal… and that contraception should be wildly accessible to avoid so many unwanted pregnancies… I don’t think abortion providers should be put to death though… Death comes naturally and I don’t think anyone should tamper with it… And ready for a child or not, pregnant women have options. there are many people who would love to adopt and are just waiting for a baby while these women fight for the right to murder their own children.

     

    Having an abortion doesn’t mean you are not a mother… it just means you are the mother of a dead child. 

  • ldan

    1. a fetus is not a baby. Particularly at the point most abortions take place, there is no resemblance.

     

    2.a. what rights? A fetus doesn’t have rights because it isn’t a person. Please explain why a fetus should have the full rights of a person from the point of conception if you’re going to argue for the rights of the fetus.

    2.b. If you’re going to argue that a fetus is a person, please explain why it gets the right to use a woman’s body for sustenance, a right no other class of person has.

     

    3. I’m glad you think the “it’s our health,” argument is junk. I assume you have something to back that up? Pregnancy affects women’s bodies for the rest of their lives, often detrimentally. Why should we require women to go through with this risk? A burden that is only asked of women? How do you think that affects society, for that matter how do you think this burden plays out across socio-economic lines? Is it fair that the poorest and least educated are expected to bear a disproportionate share of this burden? Don’t you think some of this unfairness should be rectified *before* pushing your morals on other women?

     

    4. It’s so nice that you’re willing to make an exception for rape, quite chivalrous of you to make decisions for all other women that way. It’s so generous that you consider pregnancy and childbirth to be the appropriate consequence for women’s sexual agency and/or a contraceptive oops.  …oh wait, no it isn’t. Grow up.

  • nt

    Well I’m guessing some woman had to go through the “detrimental” process to give birth to you but because you’re already born you could care less. And unfortunately men can’t get pregnant. You could rally up a thousand selfish, ignorant people (like yourself) and that will never change. If women had abortion rights from a long time ago, half of the world wouldn’t exist.

     

    Abortion also take its toll on women’s bodies not only pregnancy. Many women after abortions also go through a post-abortion depression period… affecting not only the body but the mind as well. And its not that I think childbirth and pregnancy are the appropriate consequences… They just are the results of unprotected sex. Honestly I wish there were no consequences for sex so that people like the ones you are defending would never get pregnant and could never reproduce through sex. It would solve all this controversy and those women can open their legs as much as they are willing  to and never worry about kids.

     

    And about the women who get raped I didn’t say that abortion is okay… I just said that I’m really neutral because it’s not like they asked for sex… I don’t even like to mention it so much because those are delicate cases…

     

    I’m not pushing my morals on anyone any more than the women who are pro “choice” or how i’d like to say it anti-life . And I’m sorry that you feel offspring are burdens (you only know what you are taught). Contraception is available even for the poorest because when you are poor you get medicaid, which covers birth control and even sometimes on the street there are people handing out free condoms. So being poor is a ridiculous excuse.

     

    Fetus are people and in most abortion cases the baby already has a heart beat. There are people who rally up to protect wildlife… trees, animals, living things but to you a fetus has no rights . That makes no sense. 

     

    And don’t pick an argument with me because its not fair to women that we get pregnant and stuff. Um that’s not up to me. 

  • mechashiva

    1. Got any evidence suggesting that most abortions are the result of unprotected sex? Because I have evidence against that claim. No one uses abortion as their main birth control because it is damned unpleasant and a lot more expensive than contraception. It’s a big anti-abortion myth.

     

    2. First of all, sex is not a contract. Second, the right to abortion is established law and is rooted in the rights to privacy and bodily autonomy. Even a surrogate mother who has negotiated to carry a pregnancy for someone else still has the right to abort. Contracts in which she gives up that right are not legally-binding because it is illegal to sign away your rights in America. Every woman has the right to choose what she does with a pregnancy, and no action or contract can negate this. In order to get rid of the right to abortion, you first have to dismantle it’s link to the right to privacy and bodily autonomy in the courts, something the anti-abortion movement has been unable to do despite trying for nearly 40 years.

     

    3. Who is advocating for embryos? A whole bunch of organizations with lots of donations from conservatives (some who are very wealthy and poltically connected). The pro-life movement is NOT grassroots. Y’all often have greater resources at your disposal than pro-choice groups do, so quit your bitching.

     

    4. As someone who has been pregnant, you should know better than to suggest that pregnancy has no impact or risks for a woman’s health. Knowing that there are risks for a course of action does not mean that you have to handle those risks in only one way. In the case of pregnancy, there are three viable options… abort, adopt, OR keep the baby. Pro-choicers support all three of those options.

     

    5. There isn’t a single pro-life organization that advocates comprehensive sex ed or the use of contraception aside from natural family planning. Not one (a few don’t take a stance, but none are actual FOR either of those things). All of the advocacy for eliminating ignorance about sex and pushing for access to contraception has been done by PRO-CHOICE organizations. Republicans and pro-lifers, on the other hand, consistently seek to de-fund such public service programs. You might want to reconsider which side you want to be on.

     

    6. Tell me the difference between an embryo concieved of rape and one created through consensual sex. Why does one have more of a right to life than the other? Oh wait… your position has nothing to do with the right to life and everything to do with punishing women who choose to have sex (they “deserve” pregnancy, but rape victims don’t… the embryo itself has nothing to do with it). ”Innocence” has nothing to do with this issue. Neither does “personhood.”

     

    7. You can thank pro-choicers for progressive adoption policies, just so you know. We actually do more work to make that option palatable than pro-lifers do. You should research how crisis pregnancy centers abuse and manipulate birth moms.

     

    8.

    Having an abortion doesn’t mean you are not a mother… it just means you are the mother of a dead child.

    Not according to the law. You also can’t claim a fetus as a dependent on your tax returns. Fetuses are not considered children/persons by the law in any shape, way, or form outside of very specific homicide laws.  Of course, I know that you didn’t come up with the above slogan on your own. Everything you say is just parroted from standard pro-life arguments… and there’s a reason why those have failed to hold up in court for so many years.

  • forced-birth-rape

    “If women had abortion rights from a long time ago, half of the world wouldn’t exist.”

    If I was not here my mother my not have had her health ruined, her mentality ruined, she may not be living in poverty now if she had aborted me, she wouldn’t have been abused by my christian father.

    There are many, many women who suffer greatly because they have children, children put women in poverty like my good little christian girl mother, and it puts them in danger from the child’s father, like it did my good little christian girl mother.

    The chronic shit that has happened to my mother because she had me, I never and never would want the right to do to her.

    If she had aborted me I would have never been sexually abused as a child. But you do not give a damn that I was sexually abused because my mother had me when she could not protect me.

    And you do not give a damn that I ruined my mothers life and caused her to be trapped in an abusive marriage.

    Pro-choice cares about me and my mother.

  • mechashiva

    1. Ignorant: I don’t think that word means what you think it means. Here’s a hint, it does not mean, “something you disagree with.” I guarantee you that we are far better informed on this topic than you are. How do I know? See 2.

     

    2. There is no such thing as “post-abortion depression.” Huge studies have been done on the subject, and there is no evidence suggesting that there is a statistically significant proportion of abortion patients who experience depression. In fact, the most common emotion after an abortion is RELEIF. There is a thing called “grief” which some women go through. Some women regret their decisions… that does not mean they shouldn’t have been allowed to choose.

     

    3. Stop slut-shaming.

     

    4. Tell me how, “You should do what you think is best for you,” is pushing your morals onto someone.

     

    5.

    Contraception is available even for the poorest…

    And you can thank pro-choicers for that. I expect you to be out supporting Planned Parenthood at the Walk For Choice this weekend. Seeing as how all those pro-life Republicans are trying to cut medicaid, WIC (the WOMEN AND INFANT CHILD program), and Title X (federal family planning, read: contraception, pre-natal care, etc), you should be out with us protesting recent legislation passed by the House of Representatives.

  • nt

    i never said pregnancy didn’t have any effects on your body. I’m just saying that so does abortion. NEither do I agree with the fact that pro-lifers don’t enforce or encourage contraception. That is my argument. If everyone would just agree that contraception needs to be more available there would be less abortions. 

     

    I know that anti-lifers have done a lot for women and children’s rights. I also know that they are more realistic about sexually active women including teens. I am just against the idea that they fight to allow women to abort when they’re constantly promoting birth control. I am really all about birth control and its accesibility like them… unlike them I all for it in order to prevent the amounts of abortion.

     

    I love how you use the law to defend your points of view. The law is flawed and a person who doesn’t realize that is even more flawed.

  • nt

    You are so sure that your mom’s life would have been perfect without you. I wish i had the power to look into what could’ve been (the way you clearly can) so that i could’ve made better decisions in my life. 

     

    Stop getting at me for your series of unfortunate events … They are all sad but i’ve been through my share of things and its hard to believe somebody who has gone through all of those things would so quickly publish them on the internet to a stranger. 

     

    I didn’t remember what post abortion depression was called. So call it grief. Its what I meant. 

     

    I don’t slut shame. I don’t care. If you knew me you’d laugh for even telling me that. Not implying that I’m a slut… i’m just all about sex and the body and crazy things… i was raised in nyc.

     

    And i do really want to clarify that “pro choicers” have done so much even for me personally. I am more than greatful i just wish their objectives were to reduce abortion rates through the promoting of contraceptives… and that planned parenthood didn’t mean no parenthood.

  • mechashiva

    Abortion actually does not have negative impacts on women’s physical or mental health. I think you should spend some time reading peer-reviewed scientific articles instead of anti-abortion propoganda. Maybe even try talking to an obstetrician.

     

    This isn’t about agree or disagree, this is about FACTS. Go to pro-life organization websites and look for their stances on sex ed and contraception. Look at who finances abstinence-only sex ed campaigns. Look at who proposes budget cuts to social services that would help prevent pregnancy in low-income populations. It’s people who call themselves pro-life.

     

    Why do you take issue with pro-choicers supporting and encouraging contraceptive use? It’s only strange if you think of us as pro-abortion instead of pro-choice. Abortion is the thing we have to defend most loudly, but it’s only a small part of the services we advocate for (the smallest part, actually). The main point is to do what we can to improve quality of life, starting with women (which has effects for their children and their men).

     

    I don’t use the law to defend my point of view, I point out that the law supports my point of view and not yours. If you think the law is flawed, you should seek to change the law. As it stands, you mostly say, “This is this way, and that is that way,” but it actually ISN’T. Like how you say that consent to sex is consent to pregnancy, but it actually isn’t. That’s just how you want it to be.

  • ldan

    Yep, someone did go through that process to give birth to me, willingly. That risk, that labor, that process of building a new person molecule by molecule was a gift rather than the indentured servitude the anti-choice crowd would like to see. Are you implying that I would somehow care if I’d been aborted, or if my mother had contemplated it? Incorrect on both counts.

     

    OK, so both abortion and pregnancy can potentially have detrimental effects, physically and mentally. Statistically, abortion has fewer of both. So I’m not sure where you’re going with that argument. Should we ban childbirth because of the detrimental effects? No? Then, it’s a poor argument to use against abortion which has fewer detrimental effects.

     

    Why are rape cases delicate but no other case is? Oh wait, you’re off on the ‘she opened her legs’ argument. Wow, didn’t take long to get to your true colors. Women having sex deserve what they get. We’ve never heard that woman-hating line before. And…what’s the consequences for men having sex, out of curiousity? Are they equally responsible, and should they too face consequences that involve risking life and health, risking their employment, risking their mental health?

     

    Obviously you don’t actually care about fetal life so much as consequences for women choosing to have sex. So who’s pushing their morals on other people then? The pro-choice position doesn’t push our morals on anyone, women can be free to follow their own conscience if they feel that abortion isn’t something they could ever do.

     

    I consider offspring a burden for those who don’t want any, or those who already are stretched thin and can’t manage another mouth to feed, or those who want to finish school so they can reach a better standard of living for themselves and the children they chose to have. I don’t see why this is a strange thing to think. FBIR gives a very eloquent example of the kind of burden a child can be and how it trapped her mother. Are you trying to tell me that children are never a burden?

     

    I will pick an argument based on fairness when you’re claiming that it isn’t fair to the fetus to cut it off from life support simply because it didn’t ask to be there. The majority of the women with unwanted pregnancies didn’t ask for it to be there either. Nor is it fair to expect that women alone should carry the burden of lack of decent sex ed., lack of access to contraception, lack of agency to insist that contraception be used every time–all things that affect poor women more.

     

    You still haven’t bothered to ask the question of why fetuses get *more* rights than living, breathing people. I don’t have the right to ask anyone for the use of their body (trying would get me arrested for assault or rape, depending on how I went about it). Why does a fetus have the right to do so?

  • mechashiva

    Greif is not a syndrome. It is not a mental illness. It also does not last. When pro-lifers say “Post-abortion Stress Syndrome,” they are not talking about greif. They are suggesting something similar to PTSD. Some women grieve after abortion, but the vast majority do not. The ones that do are usually “special cases,” such as when the pregnancy would have been wanted if not for (fill in the blank with something the woman has no control over), or when a pro-life woman has an abortion even though it is against her morals. You’d be surprised how often that happens.

     

    You do slut-shame. Your position is all about consequences for choosing to have sex, not protecting life. This is illustrated by your position on abortion for rape victims.

     

    i just wish their objectives were to reduce abortion rates through the promoting of contraceptives

    Actually, it is. Why do you think Planned Parenthood encourages contraceptive use if not to decrease the number of unintended pregnancies (and abortions)? Abortion is not something anyone wants more of. Healthcare providers actually care about their patients and don’t want them to have to choose in the first place. But if that situation arises, we think that women should make that call themselves. Abortion is the last resort, not the focal point of Planned Parenthood’s services.

  • ack

    I’m glad you’re in favor of contraception. I urge you to find out whether your representatives voted in favor of funding Title X, which is the primary source of reproductive health funding for low-income women. You may be aware that the House of Representatives voted to defund it, leaving millions of women without access to pap smears, breast exams, STI testing, and contraception. I’m privileged to have access to reproductive health care through my employer. I don’t think that anyone who doesn’t have insurance like I do should be denied care.

     

    No one here is pro-abortion. We are pro-choice. We support a woman’s right to determine her reproductive life. Personally, I support access to abortion because I think that making women stay pregnant and give birth when they don’t want to grants embryos and fetuses rights that no other human has. Pregnancy shouldn’t nullify the right to bodily autonomy. Pregnancy is hard on women when they WANT to be pregnant. I don’t think the government, or anyone else, should be able to force women or girls to go through it.

     

    From a policy perspective, t’s important to remember that making abortion illegal doesn’t stop it. It simply makes it more dangerous. This has been shown through empirical evidence that Guttmacher has done an excellent job of compiling.

     

    I’m glad that we can stand together in support of increased access to contraception and reproductive health care. You’re right; it’s the only way to reduce abortion rates. I also appreciate your acknowledgement that we need more realistic educational policies related to sex ed. These efforts will have a substantial effect.

     

    However, if you think that making abortion illegal will solve anything, I urge you to reconsider. You can find a lot of accurate, honest information here:

    http://www.guttmacher.org/sections/abortion.php

     

     

  • plume-assassine

    I am more than greatful i just wish their objectives were to reduce abortion rates through the promoting of contraceptives… and that planned parenthood didn’t mean no parenthood.

     

    This is ridiculous. One of the biggest goals for pro-choicers is promoting contraceptive use and safe sex. Our goal is to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies, thereby reducing the abortion rate, and ensuring that every child is a wanted child. It is the anti-choice that slut shame and want to do away with contraception, thereby leading to more abortion. Look, I think it’s wonderful that you support safe sex and contraception – that’s common ground. But demonizing other women for a choice that you don’t understand (abortion) isn’t going to help anyone.

     

    Women have been controlling their fertility and having abortions for thousands of years and the global population is doing just fine. Planned Parenthood did not invent the concept of abortion. I should also add that abortion only comprises 3% of all of the other services that they provide. Please stop spouting anti-choice propaganda and myths.

  • ldan

    Agreed with all of this. The further posts made while I was typing mine above have made me realize just how young and uninformed NT is.

     

    I mean, seriously? Planned Parenthood = No Parenthood when they provide prenatal healthcare, and fertility-saving cancer and STD screenings? Obviously someone is regurgitating talking points they know nothing about.

  • crowepps

    Considering for even one second that the opinion a 15-year-old male pop star about whether girls and women should do ANYTHING is demeaning and insulting.  I have SWEATERS older than this kid.  Who cares about his opinion?

     

    And I have absolutely no interest in the opinion of some young punk who would use the vile term “anti-lifers” while spewing his ignorance about what the ProChoice position includes.  Crawl back under your rock.

  • datasnake

    …what happened to you and your mother was NOT your fault. It was the fault of the asshole(s) doing the abusing, and you are NOT to blame. If you EVER start feeling that it was somehow your own fault, GET COUNSELING. As I’ve mentioned before, RAINN is a great resource.

  • rebellious-grrl

    I’m with you crowepps.

  • freetobe

    I know all about it. You don’t ever want to be there. It is awful and it is not the same as feeling “grief ” or sadness as you say after an abortion.

    I was suicidal and tryed to jump out of a car on the highway going 55 in rush hour traffic. I felt nothing ,no pain ,no joy just dead inside and numb. if I had been successful I would not have even felt the pavement. THAT is true deep depression. I have had clinical depression all my life and I know the difference and the worst part was that I felt SHAME because I could not bond with my new baby. i took care of her needs except for emotionally I was not there. (Luckily both of us through tons of work have turned out closer than ever.)

    At the time no doctor even knew  about this serious disease (major drop in hormones that lasts for months)  So I thought it was all my fault that I was a heartless cold freak! We women shame ourselves enough as is so we don’t need anymore from the anti-choicers. It is why I would  not have any more children and I wanted a very big family until this horrible depression hit me without me knowing what it was.

    Thank goodness for others  nowadays that doctors  know what this is and how to treat it and women do not have to suffer with this ,that is if they can afford the expensive meds!

  • arekushieru

    “Not implying that I’m a slut…” used right after your claim that “I don’t slut shame” does not a coherent line of cognition make.

    Stop getting at me for your series of unfortunate events … They are all sad but i’ve been through my share of things and its hard to believe somebody who has gone through all of those things would so quickly publish them on the internet to a stranger.

     Umm, your definition of ‘so quickly publish’ and mine must be totally different. And, as your own name implies, this is a place of anonymity.  A place that was intended to be where feminists of all stripes could come together and share their experiences in a safe and supportive manner.  That there are individuals, such as yourself, that simply come on here to stir up trouble is not *our* fault and should not be used to force *us* to restrict our conversations to what *others* (you, specific or general term, take your pick) deem appropriate.

    And what is with the assumptions anyone’s life would be perfect with or without existing children?  This isn’t a question about *perfection*, it’s a question of whether one’s life would have been more TOLerable.  And all evidence points to escalated unescapable rates of domestic violence when children (or pregnancies) are involved.

     

  • arekushieru

     

    “Anti-lifers” used in conjunction with scare quotes around “pro choicers”?  How droll….

     

  • arekushieru

    can open their legs as much as they are willing  to and never worry about kids.

    …is an EXcellent example of slut-shaming language.

    Honestly I wish there were no consequences for sex so that people like the ones you are defending would never get pregnant and could never reproduce through sex.

    Still not getting the point, I see.  A woman may decide to have an abortion because the fetus isn’t viable, she’s developed health and life complications, she doesn’t want any (more) children (right now), etc….  So, apparently, if a woman already has children, doesn’t want children right now or would experience life and health complications in her pregnancy, as far as her options are concerned, they’re SOL, in your ‘considered’ opinion.

    And unfortunately men can’t get pregnant. You could rally up a thousand selfish, ignorant people (like yourself) and that will never change.

    Again. Missing. The. Point.  Whether that will change or not is irrelevant. Whether anti-choicers such as yourself will treat the options for medical remedy of the function of the uterus differently than the options for medical remedy of the functions of all other organs, is not.  And, sadly, the answer is usually… yes.  Sexism and misogyny at their finest.

    Selfish?  What do you call a single woman who carries an expensive pregnancy to term at the expense of the health and life of her already eXISting children?  Besides, selfishness isn’t evil.  We are ALL selfish in one form or another.  It is greed, greed that anti-choicers would impose on others by forcing them to labour the way they wish them to, so that they can *live* the way they wish to, that is evil.

    Jsyk, I like to call ‘ProLifers’, anti-choicers quite often *or* anti-lifers, just more rarely.

    And I’m sorry that you feel offspring are burdens (you only know what you are taught). 

    I would like to point out that the only ones that create this particular mindset are either people like yourself or people who had their decisions forced on them by people like yourself.  But, then, as the typical response of ‘ProLifers’, you deny all responsibility.

     Contraception is available even for the poorest because when you are poor you get medicaid, which covers birth control and even sometimes on the street there are people handing out free condoms. So being poor is a ridiculous excuse.

    It’s typical of people like yourself to ignore cause and effect when it suits you.  If you restrict a woman’s access to contraception (and, yes, most of the blame rests on you anti-choicers), you are going to restrict her ability to USE it.  And, if you are going to diminish programs that serve low-income women, mothers and families (again, most of the blame rests on anti-choicers), then you are going to diminish women’s abilities to receive such medical assistance.  NO contraception is 100% effective and temporary and intermittent assistance is NEVER going to help EVERYONE.  Tell me, does that silver-spoon you were obviously born with, ever make it hard for you to breathe?  

    Fetus are people and in most abortion cases the baby already has a heart beat. There are people who rally up to protect wildlife… trees, animals, living things but to you a fetus has no rights . That makes no sense.

    Even IF fetuses were people that does NOT grant them the right to coopt someone’s body/organs against their will, not EVEN to save their life, a right that no other human has.  The *fetus* may have cells that beat on their own, ‘in most abortion cases’, but it does NOT have a fully constructed heart that beats entirely on its own (without the assistance of the woman’s blood).  Yes, we rally up to protect BORN wildlife, y’know, wildlife that doesn’t infringe on someone else’s bodily domain.  To me, a fetus can have all the same rights as any other group of humans, and it STILL would not make abortion immoral/illegal.

    Btw, can you give me a definition of personhood, that would include feoti, but exclude parasitic twins, blighted ovums, hydatidiform molar pregnancies, fetus in fetu, cells, tumours, sperm, eggs, fertilized ova before implantation, etc…?

    And don’t pick an argument with me because its not fair to women that we get pregnant and stuff. Um that’s not up to me.

    Again, irrelevant, that is, if you’re only referring to the state of pregnancy or yes, it certainly is up to you, if you’re referencing the fairness and balance of it all.