Pro-Choice Candidate Will Challenge Stupak in Primary


An error in this article was corrected at 3:00 pm on Saturday, March 13th, 2010.  The earlier version incorrectly identified Connie Saltonstall has having served as county commissioner in Kent County, Michigan.  She served in Charlevoix County.

Yesterday and this morning, I spoke briefly with Connie Saltonstall, the former county commissioner from Charlevoix County, Michigan who is working on filing to mount a primary challenge against Bart Stupak.

While our conversation was brief and RH RealityCheck is scheduled to interview Saltonstall formally in the next two days, I asked if she was pro-choice. Her unwavering answer: “I am without a doubt pro-choice.”

Saltonstall told the Detroit Free Press that she plans to run against Stupak for the Democratic nomination of Michigan’s First Congressional District, citing Stupak’s efforts to stop health care reform if he does not get his way on a full abortion ban.

Stupak, a former state trooper from Menominee, has held the seat since 1993.  No one really knew who he was until he teamed up with the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops to bully his and their way into holding health reform hostage to their own fundamentalist Catholic agenda by threatening to derail the whole thing unless the “Stupak Amendment” was passed.  He continues even now threatening to withhold votes, though many say his position is substantially weakened. 

My take is that he would never have gotten this far if the mainstream media had done their homework on the amendment in the first place–it goes far far beyond current law–and if the Democratic Party were not still supporting him.  Two months ago, Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee Chair Chris Van Hollen, my own representative in Congress, called Stupak to urge him to run again. That was the day I vowed to withhold any further contributions to Democrats unless and until they stop supporting these anti-choice ideologues.

Satonstall told the Free Press that Stupak has let the district down:

“I believe that he has a right to his personal, religious views, but to deprive his constituents of needed health care reform because of those views is reprehensible.”

Exactly.  Something President Obama himself should have said some long time ago.

Saltonstall and her supporters are now trying to collect the 1,000 signatures needed to put her name on the August primary ballot in Michigan. She is a former teacher who was also a Charlevoix County commissioner.  She ran and lost a race for state representative in 2008.

So here are my questions:  What is Van Hollen and the DCCC doing for Saltonstall?

And what can we do for her?  I know personally that there is huge pent-up energy in the women’s and pro-choice communities throughout this country to have a truly–not just nominally “until-I-am-elected-and-pre-emptively-cave”–pro-choice leaders in Congress.  As soon as she is ready, let’s roll.

What more effective way to show that the pro-choice majority in this country means business and will take it to the polls then to start with Bart Stupak?

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  • concernedmom

    Stupak doesn’t worry me. Right now the clear majority of Americans are ProLife. You are rapidly losing support from society as a whole. I am praying this country is taken back in the 2010 elections!

  • terry-cosgrove

    …we start finding real pro-choice candidates to defeat these right-wing goons in both parties. Nothing would send a clearer message than defeating Stupak.  Keep us posted on next steps and where to send checks.

  • concernedmom

    I luv it. The tide is turning…just watch the election results in November, my dear!

  • invalid-0

    If the Dems start to sway pro-life, they would probably never lose an election.  I align mostly with the Democrats as it is, but have been voting republican due to the extreme pro-choice views of too many candidates.  We’ll see what happens come November, but I doubt that the constituents in that district would like to see another party lemming in Saltonstall over someone who is really shaking things up, like Stupak.

  • belker

    Although there may seem pockets of anti-choice/anti-woman sentiment spattered throughout the country there are equal areas where women are recognized as equal to men and have the right to all forms of health services, including the medical procedure of abortion.

     

    The current assault of equal rights of women in this country is appalling.  Best of luck to candidate Saltonstall,  Stupak needs to go.

  • crowepps

    I align mostly with the Democrats as it is, but have been voting republican due to the extreme pro-choice views of too many candidates.

    Those ‘extreme pro-choice views’ being that the government should keep its long nose out of people’s private decisions on their healthcare and that  getting bureaucrats involved with interfering with their private CHOICES is not the proper role for government in a country purported to be free.

     

    Funny how the Republicans also assert that this is true in every single other area of healthcare except abortion.  And yet in those cases of abortion where the bureaucrats do have a license to interfere, it’s been evident what an extremely poor idea that is.

     

    When she learned that she was carrying a baby with almost no brain and no chance of survival, a devastated young Navy wife from Everett pleaded with a federal court in Seattle to force her military medical program to pay for an abortion.

     

    “I could not imagine going through five more months of pregnancy, knowing that the baby will never survive or have any kind of life whatsoever,” the woman, then 19, told a federal judge in August 2002. “I understand that even if the baby is born alive, it will probably die after it takes a few breaths. I am really terrified of the prospect of giving birth, then watching the baby die.”

     

    She won her case and had the abortion. But more than two years later, the federal government continues to fight her, trying to get the woman and her sailor husband to pay back the $3,000 the procedure cost and trying to cast in stone a ban on government-funded abortions.

    Anencephaly is a neural tube defect that causes a fetus to develop without a forebrain, cerebellum or cranium and which is 100 percent fatal to the fetus, although not to the mother, medical experts say.

    U.S. District Judge Thomas Zilly in Seattle agreed, issuing a strongly worded decision in February 2003 and ordering the military’s Tricare medical system to pay for the abortion.

    In its appeal, the government said that “although anencephaly is ultimately fatal,” some anencephalic babies have lasted a few months, and in one noted case more than two years. “Although anencephalic infants are ‘permanently unconscious,’ they ‘maintain a heartbeat and respiration without medical assistance,’ ” the government argued, quoting from medical journals.

     

    http://www.seattlepi.com/local/217156_janedoe23.html

  • wendy-banks

    What a horrible thing to have to go through! Poor couple.

    I glad my daughter is healthy, even though I was so ill I thought I was going to buy the farm durning the first trimester– Hyperemesis gravidarum, and two jobs, no fun at all.

  • angelbuns

    I don’t know why people feel it is necessary to force their views/beliefs/morals onto other people. Especially when they have no connection to those other people.

  • concernedmom

    How dare they remind you that a decision to have an abortion is destroying an unborn child? And that there really is a Creator God to be held accountable to, for doing that?
    “I knew you before I formed you in your mother’s womb.” Jeremiah 1:5

    “Thy Hands have made me & fashioned me.” Psalm 119:73

  • belker

    Christian types who act like this have no respect for others and their beliefs.  Oh they demand everyone respect THEM, but show no such turnabout.  Keep your religious dogma where it belongs, private…out of public view along with your genitals. 

  • prochoicegoth

    Wow, and I thought you could sink no lower. Keep your god out of the PRIVATE MEDICAL DECISIONS of others.

     

    Also, those quotes you Christians LOVE to throw around, were about ONE PERSON, Jeremiah. It also baffles me how you guys ALWAYS leave out the rest of the quote. Here is the COMPLETE quote.

     

    “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

     

    For shame. Maybe you guys need to be truthful for once and leave your religion out of it.

  • prochoiceferret

    And that there really is a Creator God to be held accountable to, for doing that?

    Please provide evidence for this assertion.

  • concernedmom

    Wonder if I struck a nerve?? Just really enjoy meeting my opposition here… Does it bother you to think God MIGHT actually be REAL?? Or have you told yourself you evolved from slime about 30 million years ago? Well, the thing is, God made you, me, this planet, solar system, universe, etc. You don’t have to BELIEVE it, to make it still just as true! So there’s God’s book…THE HOLY BIBLE, & He wrote this to tell you HE LOVES YOU… That He is grieved by the evil that blinds you to HIS TRUTH!
    “Thou knowest not what is the way of the Spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child; even so, thou knowest NOT the works of God, who maketh all.” Ecclesiastes 11:5.
    Now if you deny this Scripture is dead on as far as how God feels about abortion, then you truly are too blind to be reached. I write these things because I serve a Holy God who wants NO ONE to perish, or to miss out on the wonder of God’s SAVING GRACE thru the Lord Jesus Christ! By advocating that women should be free to “play God” at their own discretion, you greviously err.
    “Thou shall not kill.” Exodus 20:13

  • ahunt

    Oh Dear…


    You don’t have to BELIEVE it, to make it still just as true!

     

    Okay. Concerned Mom, please believe that this is not the venue to proselytize. Of course, you don’t have to BELIEVE it, to make it still just as true!

  • prochoicegoth

    And once again, I thought you could sink no lower. Do you honestly think you are bringing others to your god with this despicable behavior? You are doing the exact opposite. I hope you’re proud of yourself. It’s pushy and judgemental people like yourself that make others see your religion in such a negative light. KEEP YOUR GOD OUT OF MY UTERUS! I don’t care if your god loves me. He’s the biggest abortionist of them all, and he’s a spoiled brat IF he’s against abortions. He has the mentality of “ONLY I CAN DO THAT! MEMEMEME!”. That’s no god I want to acknowledge.

     

    Do you see me pushing my beliefs upon you? No you do not because UNLIKE YOU, I have respect for others and their religious differences.

  • prochoiceferret

    Wonder if I struck a nerve?? Just really enjoy meeting my opposition here… Does it bother you to think God MIGHT actually be REAL??

    I tried looking for proof of a god’s existence in your comment, but all I found was jeering and snide condescension.

    Now if you deny this Scripture is dead on as far as how God feels about abortion, then you truly are too blind to be reached.

    If we are truly too blind to be reached, will you go home and leave us alone?

    I write these things because I serve a Holy God who wants NO ONE to perish, or to miss out on the wonder of God’s SAVING GRACE thru the Lord Jesus Christ!

    Believe me, we’re good with perishing, and missing out on the wonder of your god’s SAVING GRACE thru the Lord Jesus Christ. Please send your god our regrets, and tell him to stop calling us. (No, really—or we’ll take out a restraining order.)

  • caseyann

    I am SO ready for Connie! I sent money, became a facebook fan, and am following her on twitter. I’ve contacted all my friends telling them about her. Supporting her is my constructive way of venting my immense anger at Stupak. I can’t vote for her because I live in Mississippi, but I’m going to do everything I can. I want to see her support really grow – that will be a very strong message.

  • concernedmom

    Funny, but that’s ALL you guys ever do, when you comment to ME on your posts! Spoz that is perfectly alright tho, in your eyes. I’ve been REPEATEDLY jeered at for proclaiming a warning to HELP YOU reconsider your stance for the destruction of human life! Becuz I care about those who reject the reality of killing in the womb is still killing. Why do you not see it for what it is?? But I figured this would be bashed as usual- but here’s one thot: someone who reads these posts, who isn’t quite as hard boiled as the regulars, will perhaps just go look up those Scriptures, meditate, & decide NOT to abort the baby they were thinking of terminating. If just ONE woman does that, its sooo worth all the heckeling I get from the rest of you people!
    Sorry you don’t like the way I put things, but some would call that “TOUGH LOVE” since I found out a long time ago how viscious you can be towards opposing views! I’ve seen you ATTACK every single pro lifer that comes on this site to reason with you! But for now, I have left it in God’s Hands to penetrate only those hearts who are still not completely hardened…
    Nice chatting with you! :)

  • prochoiceferret

    I’ve been REPEATEDLY jeered at for proclaiming a warning to HELP YOU reconsider your stance for the destruction of human life!

    If you really want to help us reconsider our stance for the destruction of human life, you can try bribery. Please begin by Paypal-ing $500 to info@rhrealitycheck.org. We promise to give your anti-choice views careful thought.

    Becuz I care about those who reject the reality of killing in the womb is still killing. Why do you not see it for what it is??

    Well, we care about you agitating for laws that will take away your power to make the choices that are best for you. Why do you not see that for what it is?

    Sorry you don’t like the way I put things, but some would call that “TOUGH LOVE” since I found out a long time ago how viscious you can be towards opposing views!

    Yes, loving you is pretty tough.

    But for now, I have left it in God’s Hands to penetrate only those hearts who are still not completely hardened…

    Penetrate hearts, like Dr. Tiller’s heart was penetrated?

  • leftcoaster

    Even though the majority of Americans have had or sponsored or supported or participated in abortions?

  • crowepps

    So nice of you to drop in and share your ‘truth’ with everyone.  Perhaps if you hadn’t done so in such an incredibly arrogant and offensive manner you might have convinced someone.

  • crowepps

    If your manners, attitudes and communication style are typical of the people your ‘Holy God’ likes to have a personal relationship with, frankly, he isn’t anybody most people would want to hang around with.

     

    The problem with hysterical, judgmental, rude drama queens ‘bearing witness’ to their ‘personal relationship’ is that your overall affect is so unpleasant that people who might otherwise be interested have to assume the change of heart you are promoting must be a change for the worse.

     

    Just saying.

  • walt

    OK Concerned – if you  want to cherry-pick the Bible more than 2 can play that little game – I hope you never work on Sundays:

    The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: ‘Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever.  It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.  Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy.  Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community.  Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest.  I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’  (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

    Here’s how God feels about bratty kids:

    From there Elisha went up to Bethel.  While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him.  “Go up baldhead,” they shouted, “go up baldhead!”  The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord.  Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces.  (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

    Don’t piiss God off:

    The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived.  Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you.  It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone.  I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre.  But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered.”  O LORD, what should I request for your people?  I will ask for wombs that don’t give birth and breasts that give no milk.  The LORD says, “All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them.  I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions.  I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels.  The people of Israel are stricken.  Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit.  And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children.”  (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)

      “Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, “Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked.  Show no mercy; have no pity!  Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children.  But do not touch anyone with the mark.  Begin your task right here at the Temple.”  So they began by killing the seventy leaders.  “Defile the Temple!” the LORD commanded.  “Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill!  Go!”  So they went throughout the city and did as they were told.”  (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

     Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword.  Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes.  Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes.  For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off.  The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows.  They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.  (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

    This is what the Lord of  hosts has to say: ‘I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt.  Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban.  Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.’   (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)

    And girls, you’d better be a virgin when you’re married:

    But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house.  Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.  (Deuteronomy  22:20-21 NAB)

     

    There’s so much more I could put here, but you may get the idea (although I doubt it). God of love? “thou shalt not kill”? Puh-lease! It’s a good thing for everyone – especially religious hypocrites – that our laws are based on the US Constitution and not Biblical law.

  • walt

    2

    2 Kings 15:16 Then Menahem struck Tiphsah and all who were in it and its borders from Tirzah, because they did not open to him; therefore he struck it and ripped up all its women who were with child.
     
     

    2 Kings 8:12 Hazael said, “Why does my lord weep?” Then he answered, “Because I know the evil that you will do to the sons of Israel: their strongholds you will set on fire, and their young men you will kill with the sword, and their little ones you will dash in pieces, and their women with child you will rip up.”

    Hosea 13:16 Samaria will be held guilty, For she has rebelled against her God. They will fall by the sword, Their little ones will be dashed in pieces, And their pregnant women will be ripped open.

  • concernedmom

    NOT.

  • leftcoaster

    and not ethereal concepts and wishes, like most fundies.

  • leftcoaster

    for being a judgmental piece of crap.

  • leftcoaster

    *snort*

  • concernedmom

    The discrepancy. God formed Jeremiah in the womb. Jeremiah was a human being. So are we. Doesn’t that reason He made us, too? Guess that must not be clear enough for ya?

  • concernedmom

    To imply all us ProLifers applaude the murder of George Tiller! That’s about as dumb as me saying that all you anti lifers approve of the killing of James Pouillon, becuz he held signs protesting abortions outside of a local high school! Sounds as ludicrous as what YOU just said, doesn’t it?

  • concernedmom

    Who defends the unborn, is going to sound offensive to you, aren’t they?

  • concernedmom

    Pharesies a “Brood of vipers” for the wickedness He observed, I don’t think He’d have a problem with me shining a light on the darkness here. After all, only those who agree with you are welcome to post, right?

  • concernedmom

    Scripture out of context? I spoz that would make you feel better about hating God, so you can JUSTIFY your own sin?
    Here’s one for YOU:
    “They gather themselves against the Righteous, & condemn innocent blood.” Psalm 94:21.
    “Did I not tell you, saying do not sin against the child; & ye would not hear? Therefore, behold, also his blood is required.”

    But I have never said I’m trying to CHANGE YOUR MINDS about rejecting God. I’m only reminding you that God is Holy, & once Jesus took all of our places on the Cross as propitiation for our sins, we could be forgiven, made new creatures in Christ. Sneer all you want, but if you turn down God’s saving Grace, you WILL NOT enter Heaven after you die. Do you really want to risk suffering for Eternity in torment?
    God help you.

  • concernedmom

    I meant I don’t EXPECT you to change your mind by listening to me. Only bringing to mind what will happen to those who reject God! The Bible is foolishness to those who are perishing…

  • leftcoaster

    - if it doesn’t fit ner narrowminded view.

  • leftcoaster

    Do you just write to write?

  • jayn

    You say you don’t expect to change anyone’s mind, yet you keep telling us we’ll burn in hell if we don’t.  You’re trying to scare us into following your beliefs.  So YOU’RE TRYING TO CHANGE OUR MINDS.

  • concernedmom

    I should let the Bible speak FOR me, from now on:

    “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them. For the Kingdom of God belongs to such as these.” Mark 10:14-16.

    Have a nice day.

  • leftcoaster

    that not everyone believes in a deity, I suppose.

  • leftcoaster

    in Iraq?

  • littleblue

    I grew up in a very religious and conservative home, community, and state – the kind where every public event is started with a prayer (and not a nondenominational prayer, either).  What I never understood is how the “ruling religion” couldn’t get it through their thick skulls that they were protected only by numbers.  They could never stop to think about what would happen if another religion suddenly had the majority and was forcing new rules.  I used to ask my friends and relatives what they would think and do if, say, they started their athletic activities or band concerts or city counsel meetings off by facing due-east, kneeling with their foreheads on the floor.

     

    This is why there is secularism in law – to protect YOUR rights, whether you fall within the majority class/religion or not.

     

    My refrigerator magnet really applies here:  “Go ahead – I wasn’t using my civil liberties anyway.”

     

     

  • littleblue

    There was a very interesting movie several years back called The Rapture.  It was a B-movie at best, but the ultimate question was quite novel – do you really want to live for ETERNITY with an (hateful, spiteful, tempermenal, sexist/misogynist, racist, and) unjust god? 

  • concernedmom

    Is upright fears the Lord, but he whose ways are devious despises Him.”

    Proverbs 14:2

  • leftcoaster

    Seriously, why do you think atheists and agnostics — or even most believers — give a rip about your bible verses?

  • jayn

    Don’t forget Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, Pagans, Scientologists…

  • leftcoaster

    Why is it always “my way or the highway” with Xian fundies?

  • concernedmom

    On which news sources you read. Some lie, some don’t.

  • concernedmom

    Fighting fire with fire, my friend.

  • concernedmom

    The way Satan tried to use Scripture to cause Jesus to sin while he was being tempted 40 days in the desert. Satan knows the Scriptures very well too, since he used to abide close to God. Satan is the great accuser, just as I see going on in the manner you are posting is suggesting God is doing something evil so should be discredited. Sorry, God is HOLY & He has every right to punish those who do wickedness before His eyes. His creation, His rules. Sorry you have a problem with that!

  • concernedmom

    Show up! How predictable you got to use Scripture against those who resist your power in the name of Jesus!
    “Resist the devil, & he will flee from you…” I’m banking on it, dude!

  • concernedmom

    I shouldn’t defend the principles the Founding Fathers of the United States stood for… One Nation, under God… In God we trust…
    Not Mohammed!

  • julie-watkins

    leftcoaster: Who defends the unborn in Iraq?

    ConcernedMom: I believe thats called… Fighting fire with fire, my friend.

    I am appalled at the use my tax dollars are being used to invade and kill people of other nations for the profit of defense contractors. I would refuse to pay taxes but I don’t want to risk going to jail (plus it would be putting my husband at risk) … so I call it extortion, & pay.

  • concernedmom

    “There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end, it leads to death.” Proverbs 16:25

  • concernedmom

    “In the last times, there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires. These are the men who devide you, who follow mere natural instincts & do not have the Spirit. ” Jude:v.17-19.
    Isn’t God amazing?

  • mechashiva

    Yeah, who cares what the Bible says God said or did to whoever? We all know God is great and holy and peaceful and loving! The holy scripture that tells us God’s word and the history of all creation totally isn’t important enough to pay attention to when determining what kind of God we worship! Just BELIEVE he is awesome.

  • mechashiva

    You do know that Jews, Muslims, and Christians all share holy books and worship the same god, right?

  • mechashiva

    Yeah, God sure is brilliant for figuring out that there will always be people who scoff at each other’s beliefs. A mere mortal could never have figured that one out and written it down.

  • frolicnaked

    I shouldn’t defend the principles the Founding Fathers of the United States stood for… One Nation, under God…

    “Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone.”

    – Thomas Jefferson

  • jayn

    You do know that Jews, Muslims, and Christians all share holy books…right?

     

    Yes and no.  They share some books, but what would be an acceptable biblical quote for one may or may not mean squat for the others.  Cripes, even Christians have different versions of their Bible.

  • crowepps

    No, she writes because it gives her a real thrill that we are “hard-hearted” and in contrast she can consider herself to be ‘righteous’.  I’m sure she spends a lot of time dwelling on how we’ll all be tortured for eternity, etc., etc., gnashing our teeth and wailing, etc., etc.

     

    I’m sure it takes her mind off all the things she does, or doesn’t do, for which she is afraid that she will be ‘condemned’.  Unfortunately, “at least I didn’t have an abortion” and “at least I wasn’t gay” and “I made it a point to harass those who did and were” aren’t the passport required to get into heaven.

    Matthew 25

     37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

     40“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’

     41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

     44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

     45“He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

     46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25%3A31-46&version=NIV

  • crowepps

    Considering the population levels and similar cultures, there were probably about half a million fetuses in existence in Iraq at the time we attacked.  There aren’t any statistics about what effect the war had on them, or the women carrying them, because their right to life wasn’t considered.

     

    There are 1 MILLION fetuses in existence in Iran right now, and yet there is constant agitation that we ought to attack there as well, but apparently they don’t have a ‘right to life’ either.

  • crowepps

    “One nation, under God” was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954 after a campaign by the Catholic Knights of Columbus.

     

    “In God We Trust” was first used many years later, and became the national motto under Eisenhower, not George Washington.

     

    “In 1864, the words were shortened to “In God We Trust” and applied to a newly designed two-cent coin.”

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/nat_mott.htm

    At the time of the Founding Fathers, the national motto was secular.  Considering your admiration for the Founders, I agree with you that we should go back to what they instituted.

     

    The original motto of the United States was secular. “E Pluribus Unum” is Latin for “One from many” or “One from many parts.” It refers to the welding of a single federal state from a group of individual political units — originally colonies and now states.  Ibid

     

  • crowepps

    Coming from a fairly traditional Southern upbringing, I was not at all initially surprised when a voice came over the PA and asked everyone to rise for the invocation. I had been through this same ritual at many other high-school events and thought nothing of it, so to our feet my wife and I stood, bowed our heads, and prepared to partake of the prayer. But to our extreme dismay, the clergyman who took the microphone and began to pray was not a Protestant minister or a Catholic priest, but a Buddhist priest who proceeded to offer up prayers and intonations to god-head figures that our tradition held to be pagan.

     

    We were frozen in shock and incredulity! What to do? To continue to stand and observe this prayer would represent a betrayal of our own faith and imply the honoring of a pagan deity that was anathema to our beliefs. To sit would be an act of extreme rudeness and disrespect in the eyes of our Japanese hosts and neighbors, who value above all other things deference and respect in their social interactions. I am sorry to say that in the confusion of the moment we chose the easier path and elected to continue to stand in silence so as not to create a scene or ill will among those who were seated nearby.

     

    As I thought through the incident over the next few days I supposed that the duty of offering the pre-game prayer rotated through the local clergy and we just happened to arrive on the night that the responsibility fell to the Buddhist priest. However, after inquiring I learned that due to the predominance of Buddhist and Shinto adherents in this town, it was the normal practice to have a member of one these faiths offer the pre-game prayer, and Christian clergy were never included. Needless to say that was our first and last football game. Although many of the students we worked with continued to invite us to the games, we were forced to decline. We knew that if we were to attend again we would be forced to abstain from the pre-game activity. And not wanting to offend our Asiatic neighbors and colleagues, we simply refrained from attending.

     

    The point is this. I am a professional, educated and responsible man who is strong in his faith and is quite comfortable debating the social and political issues of the day. Yet when placed in a setting where the majority culture proved hostile to my faith and beliefs, I became paralyzed with indecision and could not act decisively to defend and proclaim my own beliefs. I felt instantly ostracized and viewed myself as a foreigner in my own land.

     

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php/index.php?pageId=32839

  • prochoiceferret

    Yet when placed in a setting where the majority culture proved hostile to my faith and beliefs, I became paralyzed with indecision and could not act decisively to defend and proclaim my own beliefs. I felt instantly ostracized and viewed myself as a foreigner in my own land.

    crowepps, you are the master of relevant citations. Thank you for turning the abstract into the concrete once again!

  • prochoicegoth

    I guess it’s safe to say you false-christians have no problem distorting and misrepresenting your own bible quotes. Good to know….