Not Tonight, Honey, And Who Knows Why?


Another Valentine’s Day,
another round of features on sex and love, and another bout of studiously
ignoring the role sexism might play in diminishing women’s sexual
desire. Consumer
Reports published a sex poll,

and once again women’s on-average lower sexual desire is treated
as an unfortunate but largely inexplicable phenomenon.  In this,
they stuck to the mainstream media trend of talking about women’s
desire–the lack of it, really–without addressing any social causes for why that might occur. 
Most media outlets treat women’s desire as a free-standing, unchangeable
misfortune brought on by fate or biology, but certainly not worth exploring
in depth.   

Journalists refuse to explore
polling data demonstrating a reported gap in men and women’s sexual
desires for the same reason people refuse to really tackle the issue
in their own relationships. Even in the polling data citing the top six reasons
people don’t feel desire, two
of the reasons given, constituting 59% of respondents, were just a restatement
of the problem, and not really a reason.
  (Forty percent of respondents said they just weren’t in the mood, and 19% were
too busy watching TV, which is a polite way of saying they aren’t
in the mood, since people in the mood use Tivo.)  But really addressing
the reason men and women feel this gap in desire means asking hard questions
about how our society treats men and women differently, and doing that
means signing up for defensive responses.  No wonder journalists writing
pieces on the issue avoid the question strenuously. 

The New York Times Magazine recently devoted
a lengthy feature story

to the "mystery" of what women want, a feature that at least took
the step forward of involving women in the answer to the question, when
tradition dictates that men ask each other this question and continue
to be baffled that they can’t come up with the answer.  ("Mad
Men" took
on the issue humorously,

portraying a roomful of bright men who can’t figure out how to find
out what women want, with not a single one coming up with, "Let’s
ask them," as a solution.)  But despite going on for several
pages on the issue, Daniel Bergner managed to avoid even entertaining
the notion the our sexist society turns women off, preferring instead
to dwell on portraying women as inherently perverse, narcissistic, and
even masochistic.  After all, the weirder women seem, the easier
it is to shrug off the responsibility of really understanding women,
since it seems like an impossible task. 

Ignoring the differences in
how men and women’s sexualities are regarded in our society is an
interesting omission, considering how obvious and pervasive these differences
are.  And by "interesting," I mean, "somewhere between annoying
and offensive."  The double standard between straight men and
women hasn’t gone anywhere, but in fact has barely been eroded by
an intensive, multi-decade onslaught from feminists.  It’s still
women who are instructed to worry about their "number" being too
high.  It’s still women who have to hear that having prior sexual
experience makes us legitimate targets to rape.
 
The words "whore" and "slut" describe women, not men. 
Sexual mores have loosened somewhat, but we still live in a world where
Good Girls Don’t.   

To add to it, sexual desire
in our culture is almost solely contextualized as something straight
males have and not anyone else.  Images of nubile (presumably straight)
women with no clothes on still signify "sex" in our culture. 
Half-dressed women greet straight men everywhere they turn with beckoning
smiles and lidded eyes, titillating men and inspiring men to think about
sex constantly.  Straight women don’t get near the provocation
on a daily basis–is it any wonder that 60% of the men who answered
the Consumer Reports survey thought about sex once a day, but only 19%
of women? 

Add to that the well-known
housework and child care gap.  A recent Parenting Magazine survey
found a
lot of women suffer a great deal of resentment towards their male partners
, who they view as refusing to take
on their fair share of child care and housework responsibilities. 
Add it all together–the stigma against desire, the overwork, the feeling
of being underappreciated, and the lack of provocation–and the mystery
is not that women watch their libidos sink under the waters, but why
anyone wants to chalk this up to inherent biological sex differences
first. 

Not that having a low libido
necessarily means trouble for the woman supposedly suffering from it. Only 12% of the
women diagnosed with sexual dysfunction like low libido were bothered
by it,
which makes
you wonder how they were defined as having a problem in the first place. 
(Short answer: because men decide what’s a problem in our culture.) 
This study surprised a lot of people, but it shouldn’t have. 
When you live in a culture where Good Girls Don’t, sexual desire is
rarely experienced as an unalloyed good, but often brings fears of moral
turpitude for women, and they may feel relieved to have desire abate. 
That, and less sex, means more time for housework and paid employment,
not insignificant issues in our economic times.  Considering how
many women suffer body image issues, too, it’s probably a relief not
to feel like you have to get naked and expose yourself to judgment for
many women.   

It’s an indicator of how
male-dominated our society is that the fact that women have diminishing
libidos and don’t seem to care that much about it is treated as the
problem, when in fact it’s merely the symptom of a larger problem–that
women feel overworked, underpaid, underappreciated, understimulated,
and shamed about their bodies.  If we treated the actual problems
that women face, higher libidos would be the happy result, I’m sure. 
But in order to do that, we’d have to treat male domination like a
problem to be solved, and since few people really want to do that, instead
we’re left with articles that note women’s lack of libido, but carefully
resist asking why.

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  • invalid-0

    Snerk…Amanda, 30 years ago, I thought I was built wrong…because the earth wasn’t moving on a consistent basis.

    Back then…I thought I was the problem. The BH was loving and clueless. It took some years for us to get it consistently good.

    I am so grateful for sites like RH and Pandagon…our granddaughters will have the info and support they need…they will never think that they are “built wrong.”

  • http://www.theblogerotic.com invalid-0

    Check out Rosemary Basson’s work on desire in long-term relationships. For women, sometimes desire happens AFTER sex is initiated–if she is feeling okay and the relationship is okay, she’ll allow affection, and then as her partner goes a little further, she may begin to respond. In my sex therapy practice, a lot of women relate to this idea and feel better that they don’t experience “horniness” the same way their partner does.

  • amanda-marcotte

    And really not surprising.  I do think Good Girls Don’t is a powerful belief, and as such I don’t think a lot of women ever do develop that strong wanting.  They’re never stimulated by our culture, and there’s something unseemly about desiring.  If your sexual desires are only turned on when a man wants them, that does make life a lot easier.

     

    But I’ll bet that as female desire gets more social validation, the percentage of women who are only aroused after initiation goes down, and the percentage that feel horny goes up.

  • http://nsrc.sfsu.edu invalid-0

    Who decides what constitutes a low sex drive? Couldn’t we frame it the other way and say that men have a hyperactive, problematic sex drive that needs to be controlled? I’m not saying that is the correct framing either, but it is interesting that once more, sexually speaking, women are seen as the gatekeepers, whose role it is to react to men–whether by being the “good girl” as a teen and saying no, or by being the willing partner as an adult and saying yes. In either situation, women don’t get to actively assert their own desire–is it any wonder women have a hard time locating it? I also think there is an underlying issue as well–the sexual dysfunction/low libido study you mentioned was funded by three big pharma companies, whose job is to create anxiety and perceived problems so that they can treat them. These kind of studies, and the ‘women have a sexual problem’ articles you reference, create anxiety out of normalcy (especially when most women and men have no idea what normal means, sexually speaking), as a way to market their products. We need more conversations about a range of sexual feelings and behaviors, more understanding of what constitutes normalcy (especially across the lifespan). Thanks!

  • invalid-0

    “Let’s ask them,” is funny, because when men do they never get an intelligible answer. Of course, women can say the same thing about men. Women want feelings, men want reason. And the focus on sex is extreme. After 3 children and 7 years of marriage I expect my wife not to be as she was when we met, when everything was new and exciting. But while that part of our relationship has waned (and with a 6 month old baby how can it not?) our real relationship, as husband and wife, is far superior to what it was when we first met.

    As to body issue, my wife had 3 c-sections, and has breast fed, of course she will mourn the loss of her looks no matter what I say. To blame that on men though is ridiculous. It is human nature. Men have body issues too, but it is solved by men by not looking in a mirror. Because this method works for men should not be held against us.

  • invalid-0

    “Couldn’t we frame it the other way and say that men have a hyperactive, problematic sex drive that needs to be controlled?” Good lord no. How can we go about doing that except chemically?
    “women don’t get to actively assert their own desire” Rubbish. My wife initiates far more often than I do, simply because I have let her know that from the outset I won’t say no. It is she who actively asserts her desire without fear of rejection. You seem to be blaming women’s own insecurity in addressing their needs on men. It is primarily a lack of communication, and if communication is not there then the relationship has far deeper wounds than the amount of sex within it. Respect, communication, and affection (love), from these aspects intimacy flows. Of course, if you are just talking about random and casual sex with practically strangers, do women really want to have a desire for that? For men that desire is far more of a burden than a gift. It is a pity you don’t know that.

  • invalid-0

    “Women want feelings, men want reason.”

    Please.

  • invalid-0

    Good to know.

    Also:
    “For men that desire is far more of a burden than a gift. It is a pity you don’t know that.”

    Aw, teh poor poor menz. Let me find my nano-violin.

  • invalid-0

    I don’t know about this. I am a feminist so I understand what Marcotte is saying but actually I do think there is some biology at play here. I am a lesbian and there is a very well phenomenon known as Lesbian Bed Death. This means that a lesbian couple has a lot of sex when they are first together and then basically rarely-never have sex again. Sexologists have confirmed this phenomenon, whether you view it as a “problem” is debatable. In studies done on it, the couple are found to be fairly satisfied with their relationship and often don’t view the lack of sex as a problem. If women’s lack of sex drive in a long term relationship is male driven, how do we fit into this? I know we’re all raised in the same culture but even the most sex-positive lesbians I know have had this happen.

    • invalid-0

      Many of the men are lying.

      They do not initiate sex when things are old hat. They might look elsewhere simply because our society says that that is “natural”,And yes, the men also experience “bed death”.

      The difference? The men again blame it on their woman partner. She waits for me…she does not do anything…she…and again women are on the line. Do all of the men tell you what they want? Of course not, they expect you to read their minds, just like the women are characterized as doing. And tell anyone that they have a lack of libido? Hell no. Because that makes them less of a man, and the woman in the relationship is considered as “wearing the pants”.

  • invalid-0

    So your wife’s experience should be extrapolated to all women.

    Of course, my wife is a human like the rest of us, capable of all the range of emotions we all have. I am sorry but you believe that communication, respect, and affection in a relationship are not good things? I simply don’t pressure her into having sex, ever. It is disrespectful. Yes, I am a monster.

    As to my desires for other women, I accept them but don’t act on them.

    And of course the stereotype of men being being less emotional (as opposed to violent) in a relationship is biologically driven. You can’t just wish away 6 million years of simian evolution because it bothers you. We are far closer to Chimps than Bonobos.

  • invalid-0

    Thank you to “I don’t know about this” above. The focus on sex is extreme. Would I prefer to be a single man having a lot of sex with different women or a happily married man with 3 young children and much less sex? Obviously the latter. Most men want to be in a happy relationship, gay or straight, as the boss says, ain’t nobody like to be alone.

  • http://theswap.wordpress.com invalid-0

    I have and have always had a higher sex drive than any of my boyfriends have had. The problem I always found was that, although I told them this, they were not very open to me initiating things. They all said they would love it if I did, but when I wanted to have sex and would try small things to get it going, there would be no reciprocation.

    It seems that men have some serious things going on here. they want it when they want it and thats when I have to want it too. If they dont want it and I do, well they dont want it then. I think this does absolutely have to do with society’s stereotypes about sexual roles in a relationship.

  • invalid-0

    Tori, hang in there. I know a lot of men who would love to have the sex initiated. It sounds like these guys have low libidos, or have something on the side and are not up for the task at that time. It is probably the latter. Few guys ever turn down a sure thing if they are attracted to a woman unless they are being cruel, are cheating, or occasionally are too tired. If it happens often than it has to be one of the first two. And if it is, you are too good for them.

  • invalid-0

    I honestly think the whole notion that women have lesser sex drive than men is a lot of crap. I think the real problem is, as this article states, that women for various reasons are taught not to express it, or to feel bad about feeling it. Granted, my personal experience may not reflect “universal truths” if such things exist, but the women I know have at least as much if not more drive than the men (myself included). But we’re young (mid 20s), and were raised in a more accepting (albeit far from perfect) way than our predecessors. My mother never suggested to me that my desires were bad or wrong, but instead encouraged me to be smart and safe about them. And while society at large still derogates women who express their sex drives (“slut” and “whore” are perfect examples), having a parent like that makes a world of difference. I just hope that this trend will continue and improve in future generations. Both genders should be free to enjoy each other (and/or their own gender) and their own desires in safe, consensual environments.

  • invalid-0

    This happens in straight relationships, too. Don’t you ever hear jokes about how after you get married the sex stops?

  • invalid-0

    I would say it is not to the same extent. There is *some* sex in straight marriages, just not as much as before. I don’t think that many straight marriages have no sex. Not based on conversations I have had.

  • invalid-0

    Wouldn’t it be great if all the people with low libido could match off and likewise for the higher sex drive people? Only two problems with this utopia where sex drive wouldn’t be an issue in relationships: (1) we’re simply not encouraged to think this way, men and especially women are not supposed to weigh sexual compatibility in choosing life partners, we want someone who gets our jokes and has the same values and blah blah blah. Hell we don’t even know what’s “normal,” what we’re supposed to expect or want because we’re not encouraged to talk about our sexual beings. And (2) sex drive changes, especially for women. It’s a cliche because it’s true, but a huge proportion of women experience diminished (sometimes PLUMMETTING) sexual appetite after having their 1st child. So a guy meets a woman, they date, they get it on all the time. Then she gets pregnant, has a blessed event and from then on her need to mate goes from once a day to once a month if that while the poor guy’s desire hasn’t changed at all. Begging becomes the most common form of bedroom communication. Of course this may be only one of a series of changes the woman undergoes after child bearing, but for many guys, it’s a big one.

    I tell my kids to marry a woman who has already had a child, you know what you’re going to get.

  • invalid-0

    Nobody ever said that “communication, respect, and affection in a relationship” were undesirable. I’m sorry that you apparently don’t like having your sexist beliefs challenged by women, and so you feel the need to resort to logical fallacies in order to “win” the argument.

    Also, spare me your prattling on about “evolution.” I take evolutionary psychology claims with a boulder of salt, given how frequently they’re used by sexist men to justify the status quo — and how little actual science they’re based on. Given that you erroneously assert we’re closer to chimps than to bonobos, I suspect your only use for “science” is when you can use it to justify your essentialist POV.

  • http://www.ferdyonfilms.com invalid-0

    The focus on sex is extreme, but don’t blame women for that. The suggestive images of women FAR outweigh those of men. Mourning the loss of one’s looks? Who told your wife that scars and sagging breasts are unattractive? Who told her that her attractiveness is tied to her body? Men don’t look in mirrors? Oh that explains why you never identify yourselves as the problem. Ask your wife if your relationship is far superior to what it was before you had children and she started looking “unattractive”?

  • invalid-0

    “And of course the stereotype of men being being less emotional (as opposed to violent) in a relationship is biologically driven. You can’t just wish away 6 million years of simian evolution because it bothers you.”

    *snicker* So, in other words, you’re talking directly out of your ass. Got it.

  • invalid-0

    “that women for various reasons are taught not to express it, or to feel bad about feeling it.”

    While it’s obvious and clear that women are collective slut-shamed for our entire lives, personally, I think the resentment factor is a bigger issue. This is purely anecdotal, but every single woman I know who got out of a relationship where they felt little but resentment toward their partners and had the corresponding drop in libido found that it soared right back up when they got into their next relationships. Suddenly, once they weren’t having to constantly pick up his tremendous slack (in all aspects of life) and they were with someone new, they found they had no trouble with libido anymore.

    I think Ms. Marcotte has it right – if we, as a society, actually addressed what is really going on here, men will have to admit they are privileged and part of the problem. Which they won’t do because men in this society, apart from being blinded by privilege, also have some SERIOUS ISSUES with being told they’re not gods of sex. Clearly, it’s not that they aren’t the best lover and significant others evah!, it’s because SHE’S broken, insufficient and difficult in some way.

  • invalid-0

    Ms. Marcotte is oversimplifying this issue greatly. If she is going to bring up the stereotypical case where the women is overworked and the husband does share the household duties, she should also examine the opposite case. I worked 50 hours a week while my wife works 35. Still, I am expected to take care of half of the meals, cleaning, laundry etc. Yet, the typical male jobs (car maintenance, home repairs, yard work)are all left to me. I know plenty of other men who are in similar situations (as well as some who frankly do NOT perform their share of work). So let’s not act as if this “issue” is happening because wives are taken for granted.

  • invalid-0

    Rarely or never is a really problematic assertion to make. Sure, sex might trail off to once a month or so, but, really, is that any different than the amount of sex in long-term hetero relationships? Probably not. But because WIMENZ DON’T WANT SEX this is portrayed as ‘death.’ It’s far from.

  • invalid-0

    And that’s why you don’t have children.

    Also, that feeds into the childcare thing mentioned in the article: many women, I imagine, are too worn out from having a child to have the energy and time for sex. Perhaps if they had more help, they would be less over-worked at the end of the day.

  • invalid-0

    Couldn’t we frame it the other way and say that men have a hyperactive, problematic sex drive that needs to be controlled?

    Actually, Ann, when it suits society, that is exactly how male sex drives are framed. Oddly enough, the onus is still on women to control it by dressing modestly, acting demurely, drinking sparingly, and never leaving the house.

  • http://42ndwavefeminist.wordpress.com/ invalid-0

    Great post. I think you’re probably right about a lot of what may negatively affect our sexual desire.

    I just wanted to add that my experience is on the other end of the spectrum. I have always been the one in the (hetero) relationship with the higher libido. I’ve been shamed for this, by boyfriends.

    It’s a lose/lose situation. It seems we’re shamed if we want it and shamed if we don’t.

  • invalid-0

    The “opposite case” you resentfully describe is a rarity, not the overwhelming majority of cases. That’s why it’s not examined here. I’d venture also to say that your acquaintances may tell you they’re doing most of the work, but are they, in fact? Would their wives agree? Would your wife agree with your assessment? And – the obvious question – is your wife’s libido in fact lower than yours (for if not, there’s no basis for comparison here at all)? And if it is, have you asked her why?

  • invalid-0

    Thank you so much for mansplaining that to much! Clearly you know so much more about my experiences with body image and female sexuality than I do.

    Your personal experiences are just that, personal. Your wife is an individual, and your relationship is unlike any other relationship out there, it cannot be generalized to other relationships.

    Men do not have the same experience with body image than women do. Women face constant reminders of what the ideal body is for them, and are constantly told that their body is not good enough. It is far more acceptable for men to be unattractive than women–just look at any movie or TV show and count the fat, short, balding, or not typically attractive men, and the number of times they’re allowed to be sexual. Now how many women can you find–and bonus points if they’re not elderly, or are presented as sexual beings. Everyone feels bad about their body, but it’s much, much worse for women, and comparing the male and female experiences is insulting.

    And if you’re not getting the answers you want when it comes to asking women what they want? Consider how hard it is for a woman to answer that, when she’s been told she isn’t supposed want anything beyond missionary with the lights off–and who wants that, really. Men’s fantasies are catered to, indulged, and encouraged. Women’s are shamed.

  • invalid-0

    The focus here is all on quantity; but what about quality?

    I’m not at all surprised that overworked, overtired, overrought and over here women start refusing sex whe it’s simply not an attractive enough alternative to a good night’s sleep – not because of some “disfunction” of their own, but in and of itself.

    There’s very little mainstream intelligent, non-prescriptive, discourse about female sexuality, and in particular female pleasure. The traditional patriarchal position, of course, is that the only pleasure a woman can take from sex lies in pleasing her man. No incentive to want sex there, then. A lot of feminist thought has perversely followed that arch-mysoginist, Freud, in placing undue stress on orgasm, in particular vaginal orgasm (a position which has since proven to be physiologically untenable), which narrows the scope of sexual pleasure unhelpfully. The post-internet culture has done worse of all, by saturating our minds with the idea of women as always-on animatronic sex toys who can be reliably turned on by the twiddling of the nipple or the gnawing at the crotch, and where the semblance, the artifice, of avid and insatiable pleasure is more important than the thing itself.

    There aren’t enough models out there for women to draw their own conclusions about what gives them pleasure from, and zero encouragement for men to really find out – everyone is busy telling women what they should enjoy, and when they don’t enjoy what’s on offer (and I’m taking a very, very generous position here, since the reality is probably much closer to wham-bam-thank-you-ma’am for most women, most of the time), they’re medicalised, diagnosed, problematised.

    I think this is exactly ass-backwards. We can’t make any meaningful statements about the quantity or frequency of sex for women without making sure that there’s something there for them to even be missing out on in the first place.

  • amanda-marcotte

    Because women with high sex drives like myself already face a lot of stigma for it.  If we insisted that having a high sex drive was somehow unnatural, then that not only dings men unfairly, it gets women like me, too.  Plus, sex is nice and good for you.  I don’t think it’s something to be celebrated when people find themselves too stressed and overworked to feel pleasure.

  • amanda-marcotte

    You treat people like stereotypes, I imagine they’ll continue to frustrate you.

  • amanda-marcotte

    There’s no reason to think lesbians are immune from the same social factors that plague other women, and in fact homophobia probably contributes to sexual shame.  Lesbians noticeably have very little reflection in the culture of what even to *do* in bed, and having to make it up every time strikes me as hard work, as a straight girl who tries to make it up sometimes but can also fall back on the tried and true.  There is nothing about LBD that automatically means women just aren’t that sexual. 

     

    With all that said, there’s no real reason to think that LBD is much beside a myth.  Here’s a study debunking the myth, showing that Schwartz’s methodology was fatally flawed.

  • amanda-marcotte

    The problem with these surveys is they erase the women on the other end of the bell curve, who have sex drives that are higher than the average man’s.  These women—and I’ve been one for sure—have a whole nother set of problems.

  • invalid-0

    I have to admit that I agree with the RH lady being correct. The problem is way larger than anyone would like to admit. I myself am an attractive woman, but have been plagued with shyness and lack of self confidence for years. When you grow up in such a sexist world, it is hard. On my first date I went to a show with my boyfriend and there as big as day was a naked woman all over the screen. How could I compete with this movie star and all of her assets? I eventually just gave up as alot of our girls do. You have to either compete and be like them (scantly dressed etc)or start getting used to rejection and losers. It is hard to hear your boyfriends and others compare their partners to these actresses and singers etc. They however have the luxury of photo shop, air brushing, makeup artists, wigs etc. It is not right. Our daughters have it even harder as it is getting worse and worse. Yet when a man is attractive and dresses provocative, he is considered Gay. How convenient for men. Women barely cover their private areas and men have saggy loose clothing. Another convenience for men. men simply have no competition so to speak and they like it that way. On the other hand women have to compete everyday, from Billboards to TV to anything and everything. If they had to deal with the images of other attractive suggestive men day in and day out, they would understand. I think it is high time to fight back. Boycott movies where there are not men that are attractive and naked. Boycott anything, and anyplace that is sexist toward women. It is not a fair world but someone should clearly see that women would be far more sexual if given the same opportunities as men. I for one would love to be able to see as many good looking scantily dressed men. I have done surveys with my women friends and they feel the same way. They think that if a man can look so can a woman. they are also attracted to men who dress sexually and scantily. Why does our society not see this and start acting upon it. Why does a womens magazine have images of half naked women? Cosmo would have more readers if the cover had half naked men on it. Why do condom machines have sexy women on them and are mostly in mens rest rooms? We all know that men will not get sex unless the women want it ultimately the woman chooses. She should have condoms in her bathroom with sexy men pictures on them.
    Men do not look in the mirror. I have heard that myself, but supposedly they are the ones who have the visual problem, yea right. they have no competition and when they see it they call it gay. Why are there no male cheerleaders in thongs? Why? Men would call them gay. We women would call it heaven. Why dont men have tight pants? Women would not complain. Oh Yea, men would call it gay. But its ok to be lesbian, according to men. Cant you see it? It is all too plain. Men rule the earth, women are only for sexual pleasure for them. this is why all the tv shows will show naked women but no manly parts or dressed men, no hard boners, oh my that would be….yea competition to the men with no penis’s. Because the men would have to compete if they did that and then it would turn into…wait….fairness!!! Equality!!! And women who could have HOT men. We are not all so stupid that we cannot figure this out. There has to be some women in power somewhere that can make this happen. Where are they? I say Men can have a Hooters, Give us women a Woodys!! Men can judge women based on body and parts, give us some body and parts to compare. Otherwise it is just another sexist excuse.

    • invalid-0

      oh… my GOD I like this vision of a world that you paint. I want to see billboards with sexy men on them everywhere! Sexy shirtless men with large packages! I demand equality, for every half-naked woman on public display, they needs to be a half naked man as well!

  • invalid-0

    The internet is an international place and I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume your first language isn’t English. What the above poster was getting at is the idea that you cannot take your wife’s behaviours and apply them to all women. She, in fact, seems to be the exception to the rule. Because she acts as she does, this doesn’t mean that all women can or will. It’s what works for her, and that’s wonderful. It’s not typical.

    Nowhere did anyone say that communication, respect and affection are bad things. Heck, no one even implied it. I could make a stronger case for cats driving tiger prawn to extinction (It’s totally happening right now. Donate! Save the prawn). If you’re going to use hyperbole to back your arguments, at least make it plausible.

    As for what you do and don’t pressure her into, well…

    This isn’t about you.

    No one is even thinking about you. They’re all too busy making their own points and cases to wonder what you do and don’t talk to her about sexually. Well, until that whole ‘I’m a monster’ outburst. Then they were mostly thinking “chill, dude, it’s just the internet”.

    Also, I’m seeing no evidence of a discussion on Intelligent Design vs Evolution. My money is on Darwin here. I’m not even going to address the implication that women are the ‘emotional ones’. No point. You wouldn’t listen. But you are not necessarily right. Just saying.

  • http://www.oldfeminist.com invalid-0

    Beihai, you seem to have an answer to everyone, as if this is your show.

    Claiming that a man who can’t keep up with a woman sexually must be having an affair, or she’s no longer “attractive,” is ironic in a thread where you claim not to understand why women feel shamed *by men* about their appearance.

    The other alternative you offer is that he’s cruel. Ironic again that you don’t see your own cruelty.

    Why not just fuck off? We really don’t need men to tell us how women’s desire works. That’s a big part of what got us repressed and confused in the first place.

  • invalid-0

    I am DEEPLY offended by your notion that “lesbians have a more difficult time because they have to make it up all the time.” There is nothing any less natural or instinct-oriented than lesbian sex between two women who are interested in each other. That is so offensive I can hardly even believe you would say that.
    As for that stupid study you quoted, it reads like a total rationalization. We don’t have to be exactly like heterosexuals in order to be equal to them. It’s ok if our sexual patterns are not exactly the same as theirs.
    There are dozens of studies that have found the opposite of that study, not to mention the actual experiences of thousands of lesbian couples.
    Whatever. I’m done.

    • invalid-0

      I think she made a perfectly valid and not at all offensive point. We are taught how to have straight sex constantly… In school, at home, in movies, books, magazines, and on the internet. Even if you have no interest in ever having straight sex, anyone over the age of 12 can tell you the basic mechanics of how its done. The mechanics of lesbian sex are rarely discussed in any mainstream media. Therefore, those wishing to have lesbian sex have to “make it up”.

      I think you are just looking for something to get offended about.

  • invalid-0

    Not only am I *sure* you’re correctly estimating the amount of work you actually do around the house, but I’m *sure* all those other men are as well.

    Men consistently underestimate how much housework they actually do. And a big part of that is because society will cheer them for just picking up their own wet towels, whereas women are judged for not keeping house like Martha Stewart.

  • invalid-0

    My partner and I have drastically different sex drives, and it’s hurting our relationship to the point that I’m preparing to break up with her. It’s not JUST that we have different sex drives – it’s that she has made no effort to reconcile the difference. It’s all on HER terms. I am not allowed to initiate sex because then I’m being pushy and putting too much emphasis on sex and not her as a person. But if I don’t try to initiate sex once per month, which she rejects 50% of the time anyway, then I must not want her that much. After we’d been in a committed relationship for about a year, the sex just dried up and blew away, and I was left standing in the dust going, “What just happened?” This is not just limited to sex, but is a factor in many of our problems.

    The biology is the basis of this particular problem, but her refusal to want to communicate with me and work on it makes it unsolvable. That she would completely write off my high sex drive as my “problem” and then not even try to meet my needs absolutely sucks.

    I have no idea what social conditioning, if any, plays a role in this phenomenon. If we’re going by gender-sterotypical behavior, then the roles should be reversed, because I’m the one who is the more femme one; I do all the housework, take care of pets, the cooking, etc. My partner is the more “butch” one; she loves her car, her video games, her toys, and never lifts a finger. Yet, I’m the one who wants sex, she’s the one who rejects it. Based on the social conditioning theory of the female sex drive Amanda is talking about, shouldn’t I be the one to reject sex?

    My own experience tells me that lower female sex drive is a combination of hormone levels and relationship problems that can arise from social conditioning. I don’t think the social conditioning is an issue in my lesbian relationship, but her refusal to communicate definitely makes up for it.

  • invalid-0

    Hmm. A woman is all horny until she gives birth, and then, magically, she’s not in the mood for sex anymore. Surely there couldn’t be any external causes for this sudden change, like exhaustion, sleep deprivation, resentment for unequal distribution of childcare and household duties, or feeling unattractive about her stetchmarked tits and flabby belly. You know, the stuff the article was all about. Nah, it’s just gotta be some crazy woman thing. Them hormonez!

  • invalid-0

    I don’t think that it is clear that lesbian bed death exists in any real form and even if it did, it’s not obvious that this means that there is a biological reason for it. The studies contradict one another. And if we’re generalizing from anecdotal evidence (like of the people we know), then I know women in same-sex couples with quite a range of differences in the frequency of sex.

    Still, I do think that the experience of women in same-sex relationships (and men in same-sex relationships too) has to be considered to get a well rounded view of what’s going on, of whether low libido is a problem, and (if it is) what to do about it.

    I am a woman in a same-sex relationship and my partner and I have quite different sex drives. It is *absolutely* a problem for *us*, but moreso for me than her.

    I’ve seen many feminist discussions of the mismatch of male and female libido and I understand looking toward the larger social influences and injustice within the home as explanations of what might be going on. I can’t help, though, when I read these discussions, to feel a little frustrated that there’s nothing in them that seems to speak to me or our situation.

    Of course, I know the point of these discussions is not to put forth a view about a phenomenon that will apply to every individual situation. But I feel like there isn’t really anything that speaks to my situation.

  • invalid-0

    Though I’m fairly young, I’ve had this experience too. It’s a rude awakening! When you’re gathering your ideas on sexuality from the culture, you’re told that what men really want sexually is a girl who will have sex with them whenever they want. However, even when you’re able to be that girl, it usually turns out that the fantasy is really about availability, and a lot of men don’t know how to deal with a woman’s active desire. It’s a game you can’t win.

    Moreover, there’s the idea that if a guy is turned down for sex, he’s normal, maybe a little unlucky. But a girl who is turned down for sex is… a lot of unpleasant things. Usually a desperate, crazy, or stupid slut. This is the narrative painted by popular culture, it’s the one that gets inside our heads. And yet somehow, guys never stop to consider this when they complain about being the ones who always have to initiate sex… but I know for me the psychological risk of initiating sex is MUCH higher.

  • invalid-0

    I am rather surprised that no one has mentioned the effects of porn on relationships. Women can’t or don’t want to compete with the women on the screen. Men, so studies say, are so used to porn that it becomes the standard, the expectation. Anything less than the porn screen images is kind of disappointing, making it more difficult to get an erection. Almost all porn is created by and for men, strengthening men’s ideas about what women ought to do for them. It’s been documented here what happens to women whose libido is stronger than her male partner’s. So what’s the solution? Are men going to prefer their screen sex images to turn them on and women going to recede further into the background? It’s all rather dismal that nothing much has changed since the so-called sexual revolution.

  • http://www.autoglassprotection/blogspot.com invalid-0

    I like my basketball belly mister. True, both men and women have body issues. We all must be OK with ourselves first and then can project our feelings out to our lovers. It’s the old I’m OK, You’re OK phenom.

    Communication is key. Communicate!

  • invalid-0

    As a girl and a woman I thought about sex all the time and wanted it more than I care to remember! I had parents who while were very moral did not view sex as bad or dirty. It was a part of loving marriage and life. It was not till recently at 52 that my libido totally dissapeared. This is nature, no sense for sex because no more reproduction. Maybe the sex was good because I was a vegatarian most my life!! Either way everything has to be working in the body and mind correctly hormones,enzymes etc. The outside world did not effect me at all. It was what was going on in the inside that counted.

    • invalid-0

      ‘It was not till recently at 52 that my libido totally dissapeared. This is nature, no sense for sex because no more reproduction.’

      Not my experience at all! I’m 66 and it’s getting better and better. I want sex as much and masturbate (in addition to having regular sex in a relationship) as much as I ever did.

      Right after menopause (chemically induced because of chemo for breast cancer, at about 50) my sex drive seemed to have disappeared. This was depressing. But after awhile it came back. I think the body finds a new way of making estrogen when the ovaries are no longer doing it–and this can take awhile.

      But more than anything, it’s having a decent lover who turns me on and cares about my pleasure that tempts me to indulge my sexuality.

      At this point in my life I really appreciate him because I’ve been through the drek that’s out there–starting in my 20’s. BTW, the “sexual revolution” was mostly a fizzle for women; while it loosened things up a bit after the totally repressive 50’s, you were constantly subject to accusations from men of “not being liberated” or “having hangups” if you didn’t want to sleep with any jerk around the campfire who pulled back his blanket and motioned for you to come under. Glad that’s over!

      My present lover is a political activist (as am I) and therefore has had to imbibe alot of feminist truths into his understanding of things. It’s not a guarantee (many political activist men are awful) but it helps. Just one more reason to have an active movement going on–it helps make men (at least some of them)know they’d better shape up– and this can lead to better sex for us!

  • invalid-0

    i’ve had the same problem myself in both of my long term sexual relationships. in the first one, i had the same problems you and amanda are talking about: being a girl and being rejected for sex = i have a problem. it was soul crushing, and in time, it killed my libido. i couldn’t stand to be touched, i barely liked kissing, i didn’t even masturbate. and my love for sex had been such a huge part of my self image, that it hurt my confidence quite a bit as well.

    eventually, i got the nerve to dump that guy and started over. my sex drive came roaring back when i eventually got into a relationship with my now partner. however, he too had a lower sex drive than me. which, on the surface, kind of sucked. but he wasn’t a jerk about it. it wasn’t my fault that i had a higher sex drive, but it wasn’t his fault he had a lower one (and it’s harder for a guy to fake interest in sex, due to his anatomy. believe me, we tried that, and it’s not nearly as much fun). so we compromised. i set a limit for the minimum amount of sex i could live with, but he got to choose when we actually did it. and, lo and behold, our sex drives are finally coming into sync.

    also, i feel like i just have to point out that i’ve never met a couple in which the guy had a significantly higher sex drive than the woman. generally, it’s the woman with the much higher libido in most of the long term couples i know. maybe it’s that women of my generation don’t suffer under the inhibitions of previous generations (i’m in my mid-20s), or maybe it’s the sort of crowd i run with. the only guy i know who’s ever shamed his partner for her higher sex drive was my ex, and believe me, he was just as busy shaming me for my taste in clothes, my figure, the way i wore my hair and my choice of career, so i don’t take any of his opinions very seriously or as representative of the general male population.

  • invalid-0

    One reason that hasn’t been discussed here is how hopelessly inadequate most men are at pleasing women. Men have about 10-20 minutes of total sexual energy – from first thinking about it until they’re ready to turn on the television (if indeed they turned it off in the first place..). If his partner can achieve orgasm somewhere in that time zone, swell – otherwise she must be ‘frigid.’ I had a guy tell me once that I must have come and not noticed!

    Many men act as though women who insist on having an orgasm are sluts. Women who want oral pleasure are threatening to some men as ‘latent’ lesbians. Most men can’t tell when a women is having an orgasm.

    I don’t think “love” scenes like the quickie stand-up in the library in the film ‘atonment’ do much to enhance our chances of ever getting a real lover, either. The love scene between Donald Sutherland and Julie Christie in “Don’t Look Back” is one I’d want any lover of mine to see… or Don Juan de Marco, or even the love scene in “Coming Home” with Jane Fonda and Jon Voight.

    According to Hollywood, a woman is supposed to have immediate multiple orgasms when she’s hoisted up on a kitchen counter, or laid over a flour-covered bread-kneading table, or having her butt ground into a sandy beach with cold waves washing over (Deborah Kerr’s interview about that ‘love’ scene with Burt Lancaster is terrific!). No WONDER men don’t know what women want!!!

  • invalid-0

    There is no need for American men to complain about American women. Shame on them. If men really do not want to put up with all the nonsense associated with women who lead conflicted lives in this culture, they should just avoid it all by living south of Mexico. Pity them if they choose to remain in the U.S.

  • invalid-0

    Men have about 10-20 minutes of total sexual energy – from first thinking about it until they’re ready to turn on the television (if indeed they turned it off in the first place..).

    Oh, please. Maybe assholes and teenagers. All my boyfriends since college have had no problem with hour-long minimum sexual encounters. People just have to learn to not be so penis-focused. There are so many more fun things to do, and that can be done even after a man orgasms if he can’t last long enough.

  • invalid-0

    You’ve got it about half right, Anon. The world is sexist. That’s right. Asking to have the same right to objectify men, asking some “woman in power” to make it so, that’s wrong. You’ve just adopted the strategy that men want you to adopt. Play by their rules. Obey authority, objectify. Don’t take away their toy girls and sexism, just get “equal” on their playing field.

    We need revolution, not honorary man status.

  • http://eratoscreed.blogspot.com invalid-0

    i don’t know if i wanna know what you meant by that…

  • invalid-0

    this encomapasses a much bigger range of problems then are stated here. When we had Bush in the white house male egos were allowed to run rampant. Now, things have changed. I am of the opinion that guys are gonna complain one way or the other – if you DO have sexual experience, they bitch…. if you DON’T have sexual experience, they bitch. It’s a no-win situation one way or the other. This double-standards I think is a main cause of the problem. As a gal with a slightly higher sex drive, I think this is unfair. I am Pagan and I think that both men and women should be able to express themselves sexually. And what was stated at the end of the article was true. Guys – help pick up. Do the dishes. Take out the trash. Help with dinner. Give your girl a KIND WORD about her looks. You might be surprised at the results….

  • invalid-0

    I don’t think the main point of the OC was to suggest that people with higher sex drives should be stigmatized except as a rhetorical device to show how we frame sex drives as “normal” (that is, normal male) and “low” (what we think women must be). There’s no inherent justification for that framing other than male=default, because even if there were such thing as a “normal” amount of sex drive in a biological sense, we don’t know what it is, we’re just defining “normal” as “what men do”.

    I don’t actually know of any women not being stigmatized for their sex drive – the difference is whether it’s “too high” and they’re stigmatized as sluts, or “too low” and they’re stigmatized as prudes. Personally, if I stopped experiencing sex discrimination and it didn’t make my sex drive increase, I wouldn’t really care because, well, I still wouldn’t want sex. But I think the crucial thing is that if sex discrimination were to end, we wouldn’t be prescribing what sort of libidos women ought to have, certainly not based on what’s normative for men, but ideally based on anything but what an individual is comfortable with.

  • equalist

    When I was in my late teens and early twenties, I always had a high sex drive.  Not drastically higher than my partner’s, but equal to a little higher.  This changed in my last relationship, which was emotionally, sexually and physically abusive.  The lack of self esteem, combined with the extra work of taking care of our child (and there at the end being pregnant with our second) and being expected to keep up the house to his standards, there was no desire there at all, and there was quite a bit of resentment  aimed at him because of the state of the relationship.  By the second year of the relationship, consentual sex no longer existed.  When I got out of the relationship finally, it was over a year before I started thinking about dating again, there was a lot of healing to be done first.  When I was ready, I decided exactly what I wanted, and wouldn’t settle for less.  I found exactly what I wanted, someone to treat me the way I deserve to be treated, and someone who, like me believed that women and men should be an absolutely equal part in any relationship.  When I met him online, during the months we talked before we actually met in person, we spoke of his high sex drive, and I made sure to tell him of my past relationship, and warn him how it had affected my own sex drive.  The amazing thing was, once the relationship developed to a sexual level, the problems I had been experiencing with my libido before were gone!  Now our libidos are on the same level, and I initiate sex as often or more often than he does.  The main difference in these two situations is the nature of the relationship.  In my previous relationship which was rarely to never fulfilling on any level, my libido dwindled to nothing, yet in my current, healthy, fulfilling and satisfying relationship, it has flourished despite the added stressors of now having two young toddlers rather than a single infant, working full time and still having nearly as much responsibility for keeping up the house and just as much responsibility for raising the children, the supportive nature of my current boyfriend has made these things eaasier to deal with, and has made for a more encouraging environment for sex.  The point of all this is that, in my personal experience, the difference between no libido and a more normal (for me) libido is the nature of the relationship.  If a person (and by person I mean male or female, gender doesn’t matter) isn’t happy in a relationship for whatever reason, the situation just isn’t conductive to a strong, healthy libido.

    Equal rights, equal responsibilities.

    • invalid-0

      Other men who I’ve been with probably wouldn’t believe it, but I had one long-term relationship where I had almost no sex drive and it was a problem. The guy didn’t respect me, every problem was my fault and so forth. Is a big surprise that I didn’t enjoy having sex with him?

  • invalid-0

    This blog and many of the comments seem to be making the same wrong assumption, that pattern = purpose and that the different treatment of the sexes in society is all created by men. If that is true, then I feel left out for not having been asked to attend the men-only world planning meetings. Advertisers and entertainers use images of beautiful women because it sells product, that’s it. It’s not some long-term plan by men at the top to make a world that’s pleasing to their eye. It’s the same reason why the trashy romance novel market caters primarily to straight women. Instead of complaining about the differences between men and women and how those differences impact society, isn’t it time we accepted that there are differences, stopped stigmatizing them, and tried to embrace and understand those differences so we can create a society where both men and women can be happy?

    That being said, I also think a lot of the differences are misstated or exaggerated here. Male models are used frequently in advertising, and most male actors are far more attractive than the average man. Browse a magazine isle, and you will see almost as many men gracing the covers as women. It strikes me that anyone with a positive self-image wouldn’t feel threatened and need to constantly compare themselves to pictures of models and actors, and that building a positive self-image in women is more important than complaining about the preponderance of pretty models and actresses. The only stable way for people to feel secure is by developing their self-esteem from the inside out, not by comparing them to uglier or worse-achieving peers.

    • invalid-0

      “Advertisers and entertainers use images of beautiful women because it sells product”;

      Left out of this picture is that men are so often the target audience they are selling to because it’s men that got the bucks! Duh! Haven’t you heard that, overall, women still make about 3/4 of what men make? And that’s just the women who are working; many stay-at-home women have no disposable income at all. This is just another aspect of male privilege.

      And you don’t have to “go to the men-only world planning meetings” to be helping along the sexist system any more than white people have to go to planning meetings on how to perpetuate racism in order to be perpetuating racism. All that got set up a long time ago–but men are collaborating with the sexist system and keeping it alive all the time–like everytime they say nothing when other men call women “dogs” or “sluts” or “bitches”–to take one of thousands of examples I could think of. Or take your totally ill-informed post…spreading ignorance and acceptance of an oppressive (to women) status quo.

      In another vein: Thank you to the many women who have commented here for the many great feminist posts. This kind of exchange gives me hope….Now, let’s get organized (again)!

  • invalid-0

    Most of you view it as a problem. And that is the problem, why would having more or less sex drive be a real issue. If two people in a relation ship have different drives that’s just another part of compromising in your relationship. If it is true women feel unappreciated and other things well those should be taken care of not ignored for any reason.
    Even the thought that women still have more self image propaganda driven on them is just plain bull shit. Men have 3 adds for hair growth for 1 makeup ad, or event he idea that male models have changed in the last 10 years to be something that is just as unattainable for men as for women. when i stop seeing diet commercials for women and exercise machine ads for men targeted i will look at your idea on fair ground, until then it’s invalid.
    So generally emotional issues need to be taken care of, and if the lack of sexual desire is a problem then the person should consider it a problem not some columnist or therapist, that’s a personal issue.
    Flame away because the truth that everyone is different and need to accept them selves and love others for who they are is not acceptable in this society.

  • invalid-0

    askmen.com had a list of the 10 types of women that men really fall for:

    3- Miss Sexual
    You should be so lucky to encounter one of these! Miss Sexual loves men and loves sex — and makes no bones about it. She’s not selling it, she’s not using it as a tool to manipulate men — she just naturally craves it. Miss Sexual is not to be confused with a nymphomaniac, who suffers from psychological problems — rather, she has somehow bypassed the female societal training of auctioning off the use of her vagina to the highest bidder. For this reason, most other women hate her, because she’s giving it away free of charge. But men love her because she’s a free spirit who’s actually honest about her sex drive. Very rare, but worth searching the ends of the earth for.

    what stigma!?

  • invalid-0

    “I didn’t get invited to the patriarchy party, so I have no male privilege.” Check.
    “It’s OK to objectify women because it sells product.” Check.
    “Wimminz likes them their trashy romance novels.” Check.
    “Men are used in advertising tooooooo!!!”, without acknowledging that women are *much more often* sexualized in advertising. Check.
    “Stop complaining about differences and just embrace them!” Check.
    “You feminists are just exaggerating things and looking for stuff to complain about.” Check.
    “If advertising is causing women nationwide to feel inferior, it’s their fault for not having positive self-images.” Check.

    I think I have bingo!

  • invalid-0

    Yeah, “adds” for hair growth versus makeup ads (note correct spelling)…which doesn’t even mention all the weight-loss advertising, the shaming of any female celebrity who isn’t twig-thin, etc., etc.

  • invalid-0

    Move to the Third World. If men want to avoid all this nonsense: shut up or move. There is no need for American men to complain about American women since these women make up such a small percentage of women on the planet. Move south of Mexico and leave these women alone and to themselves.

    http://www.amazon.com/Third-World-Women-Jim-Woodman/dp/0964575558

    • brady-swenson

      A reader flagged this post saying:

      The book on the linked Amazon page is described thusly:

      "A frankly sexist, chauvinistic pig perspective that tells how and where North American men can now discover millions of beautiful, sexy, obedient, low-maintenance women."

      Unsurprising considering the final, ridiculous, advice offered above.  

  • invalid-0

    I think that we ought to seriously think about the effects of the pill on the overall sex drive of women. Personally, my desire dropped like a rock when I used it for a year. Now I’m back to my normal ‘horny’ self. So many women nowadays are using the pill because society puts the full pressure of ‘reproductive responsibility’ on the woman. Then, we talk about how there is something wrong with so many women who show a listed side effect of using hormonal birth control and we neglect to see any connection between the two.

  • invalid-0

    Of course, you are referring to American society and the responsibility being placed on American men. Is it any wonder that these same men are grabbing their passports and heading for other countries where women are very happy to start families at the old age of 24?

  • invalid-0

    most advertising tends to depict women because women are the ones actually DOING the purchasing (even if it is on the husband’s dime, per your point above, anonymous). at least on the mass market level that’s true (who in the household does the most grocery shopping on average? that would be the woman). hence the preponderance of female targeted packaging and advertising in magazines.

  • invalid-0

    Another thing missed.

    Everyone except birth control makers know that homonal birth control suppresses the libio.

  • invalid-0

    Birth control CAN suppress libido in some women is closer to the truth. It can also make it so that a woman will be more receptive to sex, as she can avoid pregnancy.

    That is how it was with me. Avoiding pregnancy was so very important. I had too much else I wanted to accomplish.

  • invalid-0

    Put Half naked and naked men On MY Menu Yes yes oh Yeeeesss!

    Yes yes oh yeeeeessssssssssssssssss! No I’m not having an orgasm, um not yet, but if you put half naked and naked good hard sexy men on the TV, movies, Cosmo then I could – over and over and over again! ;)

    I completely agree with Anonymous on February 17, 2009 – 6:03pm. You drive home a clear but ignored point, PUT HALF NAKED MEN ON THE LADIES MENU TOO! Fair is fair and if we have to see these half naked women all the time turn about is fair play I WANNA SEE HALF NAKED AND NAKED GEORGOUS MEN BECOKONING TO ME FROM COSMO, Movies, TV, magazine ads, billboards. Who remembers Marky mark’s underwear billboard? OHHH I DO! Whatever happened to it???

    I applaud Nutrasystem for their ultimate goal to remove fat men from the earth bout damn time ya think. They have been after us for years so now go get those fat men. Inside every fat man is a hot sexy hunk – being suffocated lol!

    I also applaud the star whose picture went to print before Photoshop was done to it, (Kim) acknowledging so she has stretch marks from cellulite. Oh gasp what a concept imagine a diva with cellulite. Face it Rocky we are out there and yes ALL women have some form of cellulite, small breasts, chunky thighs, ect… If you don’t like it fcukin tough fat man!

    Who gives a damn rats ass that we all don’t look like Heroin Chick stick model peddling pants for Guess! That my friends are a sad 13- 15 yr old CHILD not woman inside those pants starving for some food. No we don’t really look like that we are round, cushy, cellulite, stretchmarked,ect… Who cares most of us are coming to terms with our bodies the way they are AND LIKING it for what it does not what it looks like.

    It’s about damn time we ladies take back our power and use it to drive the men into conformity. Yep you fatty get up give me 100! You Mr. I can’t button the jeans from high school put down the hoagie and step away slowly go get in shape. I wanna see you in those jeans in 6 weeks Mr.! Also have those man boobs removed. If we gotta stuff ours with plastic then you gotta get rid of the beer gut.

    As for Woody’s restaurant HELL YA! I’m all for it. Let’s see who will actually start one. If we gotta see DD Hooters chick then I wanna see Mr. Tight pants huge bulge in his tight bicycle shorts Woody’s serving me ribs in a basket with that bedroom smile. After all competition is great for the economy don’t you think? Will the men get offended? I damn sure hope so! Let’s do to them what they’ve done to us for years, splash hot firm naked dudes all over the movie screen. Fill magazines with shirtless unbuttoned pants hot long haired super hunks selling me tampons. Oh hell yeah I’d go buy 1000 boxes just cuz he was selling them. Oh hell stuff those unbuttoned pants with tampons he’s hot he won’t mind as long as he sells his product. I damn sure won’t mind having to pull them out of his pants either.

    Think I’m crazy nope I’m an average cute – looking lady who is sick of seeing 36-24-36 thrown in my face 24/freaking 7! Hell no I ain’t wearing a Wonder Bra; um the wonder is how you got it on in the first place and why your boobs are punching out your eyes.

    Like I said bring on the hot half dressed bedroom eyes hunks in ALL colors. Who cares what color he is as long as he’s hot! Do I sound sexist? Nah that’s just the fat man with the jelly doughnut in the corner talking, do not listen to fat man! Bring out the hunks my menu needs them! I don’t care what he’s selling I’ll buy it just for his hot bod being MY eye candy drooooool!

    As for women being “horny” hell GIVE us something to be Horney about. Who wants Al Bundy in boxers. Now George Clooney omfg yum! Nicholas Cage in those tight black briefs in some of his movies hell yeah! Alan Rickman diving in the full frontal buff from a boat bow in some unknown movie before he was Snape in “Harry Potter” films, ohhh he is to die for! If you haven’t seen these movies it’s simply because the MALES do NOT want you to! They are out there believe me. Too busy playing Alan diving in my head to remember the frigging name of movie. Alas it will come in time um no pun intended lol :p

    Viva Revolution~! Boycott any more breast baring female crotch shot movies. I don’t give a damn Jason is killing his next perky breasted cheerleader! I want Tommy stripped and running through the wet raining woods in midday wearing very tight bicycle shorts to get away from the machete – wielding freak. Now THAT is a T&A movie literally cuz well you’d see his hot chest and in those shorts he’s practically naked HELLOOOO! If we ladies do demand this and BOYCOTT chick nude flicks saving our money skipping the blockbusters Hollywood will get horny hard up and give us beefcake for our dollars. Believe me a good sexy firm man IS hard to find anywhere in Hollywood reel films. If you happen to get a 3.5 sec glimpse you are damn lucky. I WANT MORE HOT SEXY NAKED & HALF NAKED MEN FOR MY DOLLAR!

  • invalid-0

    I am with you lets see the naked men! We can judge which ones are the biggest….. and the smallest!

  • http://www.tapsnbaths.com invalid-0

    we all have our high and low day some more than others y judge other people when we should be concentraiting on our selfs!

  • http://steve-daved.mybrute.com invalid-0
  • http://www.3CGAMING.NET invalid-0

    I guess we just have to accept that men are different from women in terms of sex and sex drives. Men can do it over and over and over again. While for women, foreplay is very important to put her in the mood. And I’ve learned based on researches, foreplay in women is 24 hours prior the act of making love. Therefore, the environment, the climate, etc, are some of the few factors that can greatly affect a woman’s sex drive.

  • invalid-0

    Crypes! When my husband says “you wanna?” (not really ladies, he’s only done it once and he was totally joking!), and I say “no”, he’ll ask “why?”. Do I say honestly, “Because you ignored me all day until we got into bed, and now you want attention!?” Yes! I do! I think that the guys just don’t put enough effort into earning what we can offer! They are so busy working and doing whatever men do, that they forget that sex isn’t their birthright at their whim, and our society doesn’t allow them to think that there is a heart and mind attached to that vagina! When the media tells men to treat the women they are blessed with in an appropriate manner every day (not just holidays and anniversaries), THEN we will see women’s libido return!