“Change” in Reproductive Health Policy? A “Bipartisan” Farce in Four Acts


This is what bi-partisan looks like:

A farcical play in which the Democrats do everything right to win the White House, Senate, and House, and then run for cover from the big bad (minority status) Republicans as soon as they go on television and say the words: "family planning," "contraception," or "abortion."

The Democrats cave as quickly as you can say Mirena, give away the store, and still don’t gain any Republican votes.

This is now the longest running performance in Washington and apparently is in for another 4-year stint.  Like the movie, Groundhog Day, the Dems just keep doing it over and over with no change in outcome.  People are apparently too comfortable in their roles to change.

Here’s the script:

SCENE ONE: Democrats, when they are in power—when they have the White House, the House AND the Senate; when we’ve all volunteered and contributed ourselves to exhaustion getting them there—finally link basic reproductive health and family planning services with basic health care, economic security, and family security. 

In sum, they do the right thing.  They propose providing low-income people with the tools they need to make voluntary choices about planning their families.  This makes sense economically for families struggling to make ends meet and who want to avoid getting pregnant in the first place, it reduces the need for abortions because it reduces unintended pregnancies, and its good for the economy because it provides basic medical care and saves the states billions of dollars in both actual and future costs.  See Cory Richards’ piece for all the relevant facts.

Good so far?  Sounds like a good decision, right?

Should be bipartisan because that whole common ground thing is about ensuring people can avoid unintended pregnancies in the first place, right?

Not so much.  On to scene two.

SCENE TWO: The Republican misrepresentation machine goes into high gear.  The GOP looks for a reason to jettison the stimulus because (GASP!) it focuses on creating jobs as well as cutting taxes (and not just on cutting, cutting, cutting), and just generally because they are out of power and need to figure out how to embarrass the new Administration.  Even after President Obama includes some of their requests, they say "they have not been included."  They whine incessantly.

They ask themselves, "How can we get our way?"  Oh, right!  Contraception!

They focus on the portion of the bill that assists states with Medicaid funding and find that part of this includes (OMG!) support for contraceptives.  House minority leader John Boehner then goes on national television and highlights (YOU CAN’T REALLY MEAN THAT WE ARE PAYING FOR) contraceptives.  Innuendos abound as he refers snidely to the "stimulus," and the "size of the package," in the same sentence as contraception.  This despite the fact that, as Elana Schor points out on Talking Points Memo:

The family-planning program that Pelosi supports expanding in the stimulus bill was created in 1972 under the leadership of Republican president Richard Nixon.

And:

"What’s being proposed is an expansion in the number of states that can use Medicaid money, with a federal match, to help low-income women prevent unwanted pregnancies.  Of the 26 states that already have Medicaid waivers for family planning, eight are led by Republican governors (AL, FL, MS, SC, CA, LA, MN and RI — a ninth, MO, had a GOP governor until this past November).

If this policy is truly a taxpayer gift to "the abortion industry," as John Boehner and House Republicans claim, where are the GOP governors promising to end the program in their states?"

Just once again proving that the states-rights, pro-family, Republican party will go to any lengths to score political points, including screwing both low-income women AND their own elected officials in the same act.  I hope they are practicing safer screwing.

But I digress.

Now of course, the media does their homework and asks good questions about why this is important, right?

Not so much.  On to scene three.

SCENE 3:  Enter the mainstream media, that overeducated bastion of liberal elitism, otherwise known as a bunch of largely white men all of whose female relatives I suspect have access to high-end ob-gyns and full coverage health care plans.

Bring out the talking parrots.

The whole thing becomes a joke.  The basic facts about the needs of poor and low-income women go by the wayside.  They just take the Republican line and run with it.

On the Sunday talk shows, for example, Sam Donaldson smirks and uses some of Boehner’s eloquent prose when he refers to the stimulus saying, in effect, “Just what are we stimulating here?”  (Wink, wink).

On MSNBC, Chris Matthews, having read what is apparently a highly classified version of the stimulus package to which only he has access somehow finds allusions (or should I say delusions?) to Obama creating a Chinese-style one-child-family-planning policy. 

MATTHEWS: I don’t know. It sounds a little like China.
[…] I think everybody should have family planning and everybody
believes in birth control as a right. I’m for — abortion is a right and
all that. It’s all right. But why should the federal government have a policy of reducing the number of births

Huh?  Memo to Chris: It’s about reducing unintended pregnancies.  

Can someone get this guy a research intern?  I know the media is cutting costs but…

Then, on Fox News, Neal Cavuto continues the trend of dithering media personalities showing no signs of rational argument.  First he claims that by offering low-income women and men affordable health care that includes access to contraceptives the government is intruding by telling people how many children to have (because you know those low-income people… they can’t make rational decisions… we smarter people need to make decisions for them). 

Then he flips around and argues that the government needs to tell people how many children to have, as long as it tells them to have… MORE!  He apparently shares a research intern with Cal Thomas on Fox Forum, who believes that Roe v. Wade is responsible for the current economic crisis:

We have already reduced the number of taxpayers by an estimated 50 million since abortion became legal in 1973. If we had 50 million more people paying taxes, would we be in our current budget malaise? People mean taxes and since taxes are what Democrats are about, they are harming the economy by advocating fewer people through abortion and contraception.

Let’s not blame George Bush and the Republicans for the economic situation.  It has to be Roe v. Wade.  It has to be contraception.  It has to be sex.  Governing this country is like playing Trivial Pursuit… if you don’t know the answer to a question, just say “Elvis Presley,” and you have more than a 50 percent chance of being right.  If you want to create controversy as a smoke screen for far bigger problems in the United States, just say the words "contraception, family planning, abortion."  I guarantee results. 

I am waiting for the connection between Roe v. Wade and Al Quae’da.

On to scene four.

SCENE FOUR:  The Democrats stand up for the data, the evidence, the ethical principle of ensuring that no matter how much misinformation is spewed out there, they have the evidence behind them, right?  After all, they have the votes in the House and the Senate to pass this without the Republican party.

And we have a President who told us that we would restore science and sanity to public policy, that we would stand up for our principles, and who, last week, actually reminded the Republicans that he won.

So they stand up for what is right? 

Right?

Not so much.

In an interview with George Stephanopoulos House Speaker Nancy Pelosi in fact stands up for including the Medicaid and contraceptive portion in the bill. 

On his website, George writes: 

I asked her about some of the more controversial spending in the stimulus package, including hundreds of millions to expand family planning services. 

(Actually, $200 million max, but “hundreds of millions" sounds better, right?)

Pelosi responds:

The family planning services reduce cost.  One of the elements of this package is assistance to the states. The states are in terrible fiscal budget crises now and part of what we do for children’s health, education and some of those elements are to help the states meet their financial needs. One of those – one of the initiatives you mentioned, the contraception, will reduce costs to the states and to the federal government.

But it is too late for her to inject any sanity.

Quickly, before the end of the day Monday, the White House, the one that stands for principle, distances itself from Pelosi.  “Not our idea,” they tell Associated Press.  “It was her idea, not our idea.”

Way to hang her out to dry. 

Apparently, bi-partisanship and the new politics means never having to have your own House Majority Leader’s back and that the White House spends more time making “common ground” with Republicans than figuring out what they stand for with their own party.

The White House signals they are ready to take the contraceptive piece out.  Because it is all about bipartisanship, right? This will get them the votes to do "more important things," right?

Phone calls placed to the White House Press Office Monday night are not returned. 

I wake up Tuesday morning to hear Carl Kasell on NPR report that the White House now plans to remove the contraceptive support from the stimulus bill, but that in the end doing so will not result in gaining any additional votes among House Republicans.

Women are screwed, the poor lose essential health care, the Republicans galvanize their nutcase base by removing contraception but will still run around playing the common ground card.

Could it maybe have been a better idea to flip this tired script and show some muscle right now? 

Was it so irrational to hope, perchance to dream, that Obama would get out there and say…"wait a minute, I am not caving to this misrepresentation of the facts nor denying the needs of low-income people for adequate health care.  Here are the facts and here’s where I stand?"

Oh, yeah….that only happens in the movies.

Close curtain.

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  • invalid-0

    Is there an email to Obama/dems list where we can send petitions or mobilize etc about the totally unnecessary and infuriating cave-in to Republicans on family planning and in general on giving away so many billions for tax cuts instead of infrastructure, health, education and society building projects?

  • brady-swenson

    Thanks for your willingness to reach out to leaders to admonish this needless cave-in to Republican tactics.

    Since the Obama Whitehouse is signaling that they are willing to cave on family planning funds, an efficient and effective way to help states save money in these tough times, you can send a note to the Whitehouse via the contact form

    You may also call the Whitehouse at 202-456-1414.

    Our fellow citizens who are not as well off as some of the rest of us will use wisely spent family planning funds to take responsibility for their economic future.  I am about to turn 30 and my wife and I are readying our lives to start a family and know many other couples in the same boat.  Many of us are concerned about starting a family in these economically unsure times.   Fortunately my wife and I are able to afford family planning care and contraceptives but millions of American families will and are having a hard time coming up with money every month for food, let alone contraception.  Allowing Americans to effectively plan their families according to their economic means is sound policy, especially in the midst of the worst economy in 75 years and especially if it will only cost 200 million dollars out of 850 billion, or 0.225% of the stimulus plan.  

     

  • invalid-0

    I will make this short.

    1) The stimulus bill was never meant to be distributed to “low-income” families. It’s purpose is to bail out banks so that they stop hoarding cash and continue to make loans. You know… so “low-income” families can continue to run up debt and the like.

    2) I’m glad you noticed that Dems have a political monopoly. That being said, Obama plans to nationalize health care (just like Clinton tried to) and he will likley succeed. What does this do? It makes medical care for “low-income” families cheaper/more accessible. This will in turn free up funds for “family planning” (whatever that is).

    Honestly, it doesn’t require $200MM for contraceptives. Go to a free clinic or forgo the McDonald’s and buy them yourselves, instead. God forbid somebody take initiative around here. I mean, humans have been doing this for thousands of years without the kind of help we have today.

    IMHO, that $200MM should be slated for free classes on budgeting. Fix the cause, not the result. And everybody wonders why so many jobs are sent abroad…

  • brady-swenson

    Thanks for commenting, Anonymous. I disagree with you…

     

    1) The TARP, or Troubled Assets Releif Act, was intended to break up the credit crunch and was aimed at banks and financial organizations.  This was the 700 billion authorized late last year that the Treasury was authorized to disburse.  The purpose of this economic stimulus package is to get money into the hands of Americans through government spending and tax cuts.  It is in fact supposed to be directed at regular Americans who need jobs and these same people need help with basic family planning, which is a primary economic concern for families.  Family planning also decreases Medicare costs for states and the federal government.  

     

    2) The Democrats could find a place to add this spending in later but it fits perfectly into this package and it will be harder to find a place for it later.  How can someone get birth control at a free clinic if government is not funding the free clinic? – someone has to pay for it if those using the free clinic cannot.  Anyway, people should not have to choose between eating and family planning, yes, that’s what we are saying (though contraception costs more than a meal at McDonalds).  Lack of budgeting skills is not the cause, it’s a broken economy, lack of jobs and not enough money for families to eat that’s the problem.  It makes economic sense to help people who don’t have enough money to feed their families not have to give up contraception as well, leading to unplanned pregnancy and then Medicare spending when the family can’t afford to care for the child.  How does that not make sense? 

     

    Your idea to give budgeting classes to families is a great idea but certainly not mutually exclusive to providing government funds for family planning services. 

  • invalid-0

    ….if you want free “contraception,” then just stop having sex!!!!! That’s free!

    Are you implying that poor people are so stupid that they can’t make decent choices about their sexuality?

    All these years of teaching about sexuality in the schools -free condoms, free morning-after pills – hasn’t changed a damn thing statistically.

    Handing out the pill for free, whether to teens or to bonafide adults, married or unmarried, just keeps people stupid. As would handing out free abortions, which I’m sure you’d support, as well!

    SMART people know that if you don’t want a baby, you don’t have sex. SMART people are self-controlled, self-disciplined. It has nothing to do with religion or conservativism.

    SMART people are not the exclusive property of the middle-class, upper-middle-class, or the upper-class. SMART people exist in the lower class, too. Unless they’re taught from day one – through schools and through socialization – to BE stupid. By people like you!

    An orgasm lasts a few seconds. A baby is forever. SMART people can tell the difference. And act on it.

  • invalid-0

    I’m a female. Yes, a FEMALE wrote that about people figuring out when having sex is or is not a smart idea.

    It’s time WOMEN smarten up, sweetie!

    And since when is being a slut something to be proud of? You people keep buying the lies of “freedom.”

  • invalid-0

    Smart people know that they can benefit from access to reproductive health services and that they don’t have to listen to slut-shaming, finger-wagging reprobates like you telling them how, where, and when they can use their genitals.

  • invalid-0

    You are right… that is what the TARP is. I suppose I should clarify, since I figured nobody who knew what that was would even read this site.

    The ORIGINAL stimulus package was meant to go to banks and other financial institutions. The second will only exist because of the first. People are not happy they aren’t getting handouts. I understand this (this is the mentality big government creates, and incidentally, this is what keeps them in power). Quite frankly, it’s a complete waste of money and a strain on the taxpayer. Obama won’t even have the funds to carry out his ideal Presidency. It’s a joke.

    You assume contraceptives only come in the form of pills. CONDOMS, my friend. This is a classic example of Americans wanting their cake and eating it too. Using condoms, properly, prevents pregnancies AS WELL AS STD’S. Don’t act like married couples don’t spread them, either.

    “But I don’t like condoms!” Well, too bad. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Nobody cares about your need for 5 seconds of ecstasy, or you desire for “fun”. Whether or not people get off is NOT A REAL ISSUE.

    Your argument that somehow “family planning” will benefit us all is cute, but misplaced. We are in this mess because NOBODY knows how to plan. Here in America, we spend spend spend. No saving. Take a look at a chart comparing Savings vs. % of Annual Income over the last 50 years. THAT will clarify why everybody is now broke with their hands out to Uncle Sam.

    This is a new era, my friend. It is time for citizens to accept CULPABILITY. Stop pointing your finger at the next guy hoping he’ll clean up the mess. Stop stealing from those who SAVED, to help those who didn’t. You want a child? Go ahead. You don’t? Use a condom. Not enough money? Here’s some free family planning advice: START SAVING!!!!!!!!

  • therealistmom

    All those poor married people shouldn’t have sex either? Just… wow. Since obviously if you’re poor it’s because you’re stupid and shouldn’t be in a relationship anyway.  There is so much wrong in that post I can’t even bring myself to respond fully.

  • invalid-0
  • invalid-0

    I love when liberals like yourself hijack comments and make it seem that one thing was said, when in fact, something totally different was stated.

    I never said poor people shouldn’t have sex. In fact, I stated that being SMART (which entails knowing when and why to have sex) is the jurisdiction of ALL people, regardless of socio-economic status.

    Unfortunately, it’s the poor people who end up making stupid decisions, because they’ve been told by leftys like yourself that they can and should have sex anytime they want, with no consequences. Condoms, sex-education for children, and programs from Planned Parenthood abound, and still…..pregnancy everywhere, along with STDs (which are going UP these days, not down.)

    Contraception IS abortion, plain and simple. Medical evidence has been pointing to that fact for years, but Planned Parenthood et al refuses to disclose the truth. Additionally, since the introduction of contraception, abortions have gone UP, exponentially. So all the arguments FOR contraception are moot.

    Birth control (contraception) has resulted in MORE teen and out-of-wedlock pregnancies. It has also resulted in 50+ million abortions in the U.S. since Roe V. Wade. Thus, birth control does NOT work, it’s a failure. Thus, I don’t want MY tax payer dollars funding something that doesn’t work, and more importantly, is morally wrong.

    Stupid is as stupid does. Abstinence is the only answer.

  • invalid-0

    I notice you hopped on the word ‘poor’ without actually bothering to read it in context. ‘Poor’ wasn’t referring to financial status, it was referring to the pitiable plight of all those MARRIED couples – and other couples in long-term committed relationships – you expect to NEVER HAVE SEX.

    Newsflash for you, anonymous poster: sex!=procreation.

  • invalid-0

    …to be so woefully ignorant of basic facts?

    Sex != procreation.

    Procreation is a function of sex, NOT the purpose. Procreation is also only a POSSIBLE result of sex – just like a collision is a POSSIBLE result of getting in a car and getting food poisoning is a POSSIBLE result of eating that potato salad at the company picnic.

  • invalid-0

    Considering that misogynists like you continue to use the word ‘slut’ to mean ‘any woman who dares to enjoy consensual sex’, I’d say it’s certainly something to be proud of. If nothing else, it means that the woman being labeled is angering small-minded, ignorant, sexist fools with her refusal to live by their misogynistic beliefs – and while it may be a little petty, it’s also something to take pleasure in, and pride in, doing.

  • invalid-0

    I’m a female. Yes, a FEMALE wrote that about people figuring out when having sex is or is not a smart idea.

    It’s time WOMEN smarten up, sweetie!

    And since when is being a slut something to be proud of? You people keep buying the lies of “freedom.”

    I’m a woman, too, HONEY. And I’m perfectly capable of coming to my own conclusions about sex. I don’t need to smarten up, as you say.
    .
    Oh, and about “buying the lies of freedom?” I’d rather have that than have the likes of you telling me what, how, and when to think.

  • invalid-0

    ….the penis goes where? Deposits what? Into where? And what can happen? And WILL happen if you don’t use chemical, potentially cancer-cuasing chemicals to contracept.

    The naturalists continue to deny nature.

    Of course, the purpose of intercourse is procreation.

  • invalid-0

    Lies are lies. I’d rather be right than live a lie.

    But then, all you leftys LIVE out your existence according to lies, so it’s a comfortable fit. I just wish you’d quit lying to young, innocent and vulnerable children and teens. Stop telling them that everything’s OK as long as it feels good, especially where sex is concerned.

    What feels good can often end up bringing a lifetime of hurt and bitterness. You all know that’s the truth. Why you keep supressing that is a mystery to me.

  • http://ladybeca.blogspot.com invalid-0

    maybe you want to slow your roll just a little bit there human behind the computer. seriously? we’re not smart enough, or well informed enough, to know the difference between the two stimulus packages? really? all us wiminz and pansy azz menz here are too stoopid to understand? you’re right, condoms are a generally effective form of sti/std and birth controll. no one here said anything to the contrary.

    you might also seriously want to rexamine the height of the horse you rode in on. a fall from that high could do some damage.

  • invalid-0

    *I* didn’t use the word slut first, someone else did.

    And remember, you’re talking to a woman. Who’s NOT a misogynist. I’m a realist. Tell women lies, watch the damage that results. Stepping up to tell the truth does not make me a misogynist, it makes me a concerned woman who cares about other women.

    Anger will get you no where in your fight to change the so-called injustices against women’s reproductive rights. Forty some years of anger on the part of feminists and neo-feminists hasn’t changed squat. It’s only made things worse, like I said in another response – MORE abortions (murder), more unwanted pregnancies (selfishness), more STDs (rising healthcare costs), more single-parent families (screwed-up kids, kids on their own), more divorce (broken dreams, bitterness), etc., etc., etc.

    Tell me, what HAS sexual freedom brought that’s good? More orgasms? I can get those on my own, thank you very much.

    There is no pride in being petty, which you admit to on both accounts.

  • z3ncat

    So you’re saying that EVERY TIME penile-vaginal penetrative sex occurs without a form of contraception, pregnancy will result because that’s ‘natural’?

    You might want to take a moment to chastise the ‘natural’ world out there for not adhering to your standards. The estimated ratio of pregnancy to unprotected, penile-vaginal penetrative sex in humans is 1:5. That’s 20% chance of pregnancy. That’s not a ‘WILL happen’, that’s a ‘MIGHT happen’.

    Once again, sex does NOT have the purpose of procreation. Sex has a FUNCTION of procreation – as well as physical pleasure, emotional wellbeing, emotional release, emotional bonding, a method of establishing dominance, entertainment, and much more. All of these functions are evidenced in the NATURAL world.

  • z3ncat

    And notice the lack of any surprise that you ignored the point made – by two people – about your expectation that married couples never have sex.

  • invalid-0

    AGAIN, I am not the person who introduced the word “slut” into this conversation. Read the comments. It wasn’t me.

    I refuse to address the cries of women like you about the inequity of the sexual relationship in centuries gone by. Those days are over. Today is today, and we are dealing with a modern world.

    Yes, sexual freedom (both male and female) IS to blame for that long laundry list of problems. You betcha. These problems existed in miniscule quantities before the sexual revolution.

    There is no sexual inequality out there! What a joke! What a LIE that you’ve convinced yourself of. Stop having illicit sex and there is no inequality. The fact that men have gotten away with it is NOT a logical refutation to my argument, they create their own set of problems by their actions – and certainly – with all the screaming, bitching, and finger-pointing women have done to men – well, they are now starting to pay the price by being forced to live in a feminized state within western, secular culture. They’re being emasculated, basically. Which isn’t good for families, which isn’t good for proper emotional development in children, and certainly isn’t financially good for lots of women who are left abandoned with the kids those illicit unions produce. It’s a whole other kind of inequality. Watch, it will get worse, and you will see that women have been calling all the shots now for quite a while, and it will all come to light with disasterous results.

    I want to know why you leftys deny the exponential GROWTH in abortion, unwanted pregnancy, child abuse, and STDs since the pill was introduced? It adds up to a MENTALITY, people. A mentality that the ONLY thing that matters is sexual freedom and pleasure. Everything else goes by the wayside.

    Our culture, our families are going by the wayside. But you refuse to see it out of some deranged pride.

    Move on. There’s bigger fish to fry out there. There’s more pressing problems than your quest for responsibility-free sex.

  • z3ncat

    But you can be a woman and a misogynist – and you are.

    "Sweetie"?  "Slut"?  The expectation that women should just shut up and sit down while others attempt to remove their equality?  The constant finger-pointing at women to blame them for everything you don’t like?

     

    That’s misogyny.

     

    So, if sexual freedom is the cause for all that’s wrong in the world… why should it be recent?  Men have had sexual freedom for centuries.  Or are you saying that it’s WOMEN’S sexual freedom that’s to blame for your laundry list?

     

    Oh, look, misogyny. 

  • invalid-0

    Chastity – ever hear of that word?

    It means not having sex if it’s not right. It means not having sex for awhile if it might mean there’s a financial disaster waiting to happen if a pregnancy resulted. It means not having sex if doing so will result in your being objectified – even if it’s by your husband. It means not having sex just for the purpose of orgasm. It means actually equating the sexual act with something more than gratification, even sometimes emotional gratification.

    Millions of people, and OK, yes, most of them are Christians, and specifically Catholic, practice CHASTITY in the bedroom – the married bedroom! And they’re just fine. Their lives haven’t fallen apart. And, in fact, their divorce rate is shockingly low. All because they KNOW when it’s real and when it’s not. They know when to do it and when not to do it. They don’t live according to the “have as much sex as possible while married” rule.

    Unfortunately, the poorest married people in this country are never exposed to an alternative mindset when it comes to marital love. NEVER. Due to their poverty, they are only exposed to clinics, free “healthcare,” and the whisper of abortion at every turn. How depressing! How sad to be constantly told that your every sex act has to be regulated and restricted – and if in trying to do so, you “fail,” why then, by all means, KILL.

    It’s just sick.

    Birth control, AGAIN, has NOT proved to be the pancea of free sex and growing love that it promised. It has only resulted in MORE abortions, etc., etc. It has only served to put a contraceptive “me first” or “us fist” mentality into the married relationship – a relationship that should be OPEN to love and the results of love.

    Married people SHOULD have sex. But when it’s right and it makes sense. Not just as a body-centered, pleasure-seeking recreational activity. TRUE sexual love is beautiful and powerfully stimulating. What passes for “true love” in the average American bedroom is a joke.

    But selfish people who have a death mindset will never understand that.

  • therealistmom

    … more power to them. I think it’s a bizarre mindset, but if it works for you, go for it. The problem comes when y’all get judgmental about the rest of us who, as adults, decide that sexuality is a part of our lives. Sex is NOT only about procreation, even in the animal kingdom. In fact, the higher the intelligence of the animals, the more likely that they will use sex as social bonding and such, as it draws their groupings or mates together into stronger relationships, which is beneficial for the whole. It is part of evolution into more social beings that have empathy and connections with others to share these kinds of bonds. Thus we have animals such as bonobos and dolphins who have sex for pleasure and bonding not only to produce offspring. It is also why human women, and yes this is clinical, are receptive to "mating" even when they are not in a fertile period, and why we do not necessarily give off signals that we are in that part of our cycle. Because for our species, sex is NOT simply about "insert penis into vagina, ejaculate, produce offspring". It’s a whole spectrum of interactions. Women should not be denied these interactions simply because we’re the sex that produces offspring, and people in general should not have to abstain if they do not wish to in this day and age. Period.

  • invalid-0

    Amen to that TheRealistMom

  • z3ncat

    First off, give a reputable source for your repeated claim that birth control has increased abortions.

     

    Secondly, you do realize that there are those out there who NEVER want children, correct?  Your expectation that those individuals should NEVER have sex because of your flawed belief that sex is equal to procreation is laughable.

     

    Marital chastity?  All well and good for those couples who A) CHOOSE to go that route, and B) are content with that choice.  However, most couples – and I’ll even narrow it down to couples in long-term, committed, monogamous relationships – are NOT willing to go their entire relationship only having sex when they’re willing to procreate.  Dwindling intimacy and lack of intimacy are considered to be potential symptoms of a relationship in trouble for a REASON.  Sex, as previous pointed out, serves more functions than just procreation, and one of those functions is emotional bonding.  Most couples?  Aren’t going to give up something that helps to foster, strengthen, and renew their relationship FOREVER because they don’t want children.

     

    But, of course, all this is a moot point seeing as how your argument’s basis has absolutely no validity.  Sex does not equal procreation, and sex does not have a purpose. 

  • z3ncat

    I could point out a positive correlation between toasters and the number of children in a household in China (prior to one-child laws) – does that mean that toasters are birth control? 

     

    Once again: if sexual freedom is to blame for all of society’s ills, then why don’t those ills go back centuries?  Or do you admit that you are blaming ONLY women – specifically women who enjoy sex; women who refuse to view sex, as you so erroneously do, as purely a procreative act; women who have the utter gall and audacity to think that they have the same rights as their male counterparts?

     

    And if you honestly believe A) "There is no sexual inequality out there" and B) that there is absolutely no reason why anyone would look at your posts and see misogyny left, right, and center, well… then I’ve got a bridge I’d like to sell to you.

  • janine

    Like Shannon, I also say Amen to that RealistMom!

  • z3ncat

    Well said, RealistMom!

  • mellankelly1

    Of course, the purpose of intercourse is procreation.

    Right… just like the purpose of life is death.

  • invalid-0

    Well, then you should stop lying to young, innocent, vulnerable, children and teens, too. Stop telling them that abortion will cause cancer. That’s been disproved. Stop telling them that abortion will definitely make it harder to have children later on. It won’t. And stop telling them that abstinence-only works. It doesn’t.

  • invalid-0

    “Right… just like the purpose of life is death.”

    Bad Mellenkelly…bad, bad…

    Officially menopausal here…lemme just clue the Better Half that his rompin’ days are history. We’ll report back.

  • invalid-0

    “Give me chastity and give me constancy, but do not give them yet.” – St. Augustine

  • invalid-0

    Okay…the Better Half has given me his imput, and he says that sex only in terms of procreation is fine with him, as long as I do not divorce him, split our assets, and take up with his boss.

    Menopausal women like sex too…who knew?

  • http://dietcookingrecipes.com invalid-0

    I feel healty people say no Lies. I’d also rather be right than live a lie.

  • therealistmom

    … than "OMG teh sex is bad!!11"? Because I am really at a loss as to where these "lies" come in, beyond your assertions that sex is only for procreation, which is a concept soundly trounced by biological and sociological evidence. The "truth" is that sexuality means something different to every individual, and we need to arm people with the best scientifically based, factual information we can. Do you have anything, ANYTHING beyond your singularly narrow interpretation of what is right on an opinion level to call other people "liars"?

  • invalid-0

    What about rape victims and incest victims and women in abusive marriages??? What are they supposed to do? In a perfect world living by Gods word may work for some but NOT ALL this is NOT a perfect world or paradise and we are only human and we make mistakes. Get real please.

  • invalid-0

    if the sole purpose of sex were procreation, then human women would go into heat the way most other mammals do. she would only be willing/able to have sex, and males would only want to have sex with her, when she was ovulating, and thus, able to get pregnant. since this is not the case, the obviously sex is for something else entirely (possibly, pair bonding? building of intimacy within a couple? any of those sound at all like human nature to you?)

  • http://www.newquestcity.com/templates/contentpages/stimulus/index.cfm invalid-0

    I was unaware about the whole contraception issue going on. So “grandstanding” of the GOP. My husband and I chose to only have one child as we were self employed and we didn’t feel it was responsible to bring more children into the world without knowing if we could provide support.

    Contraception has to be a weapon against poverty – to take it away just confirms that the GOP are not a party of the people – just rich people.

  • http://bodysolidfitness.com/blog/what-do-you-do-when-you-get-hurt-working-out/ invalid-0

    I hope you were kidding. The truth is we all need to bear down. But there are blessings in this type of economy as well. I believe it’ll bring the country, communities, and families together as never before. At least I’m hoping.