• invalid-0

    she didn’t wait until marriage having foreplay isn’t waiting till marriage she cheated this is a bunch of crap. I hate having my intelligence insulted.

  • http://smartbykrae.wordpress.com invalid-0

    I agree with the earlier commenter. Since when does oral sex equal abstinence?

  • invalid-0

    She says “abstain from intercourse,” not “abstain from anything beyond second base” in her letter. Besides, that’s not even the focus of her problem nor of the response.

  • invalid-0

    I’d love to see a CLEAR definition of abstinence that helps people achieve a healthy sexual relationship inside a marriage … same thing NKeith was looking for apparently.

    And I have to add that there’s another possibility, one that I’m aware of from personal experience. Your husband may be gay. My first husband was. We ended up having sex about once a month while we were married.

    He was a traditional guy, in denial, and he wanted a family. We’ve got two incredible kids together … and we’re still great friends.

    I think scarleteen’s suggestions are a great starting place . . . just know there might be something else going on that no amount of talking or drugs will fix. And while the other two commenters might not agree, there’s nothing wrong with that.

  • http://www.scarleteen.com invalid-0

    As someone who listens to a lot of different interpretations and enactments of “abstinence” in my work, from both youth and adults, I can easily say that 1) only some people tend to feel abstinence means no kind of sex or partnered sex at all and 2) more people than not practicing or promising abstinence — as well as those pushing it on others — do not abstain, and often have not, from all kinds of sex. So, K, to a LOT of people, oral sex does indeed equal abstinence, even though that it is understandable that seems conflicting.

    Regardless, I’m not going to define what abstinence is for someone who is letting me know how they define it, nor would quibbling over that be something I’d see as helpful for someone like this. As well, if you’ve the idea that somehow neither of them ever having had any kind of sex would have meant they would not have had this issue in time, I’d have to disagree. It sounds to me like these two people would have found themselves in this spot regardless. Might she not have been as aware that sex could be more fulfilling than this had she not had other partnerships before? I suppose, but it doesn’t strike me as a fix for a person simply to be less unhappy because they don’t know things can be better than this.

    Honestly, this is one of many reasons why, as Piper pointed out, abstinence ideas can be so tricky. The definitions are rarely clear and also often unrealistic, particularly for older teens and adults. Personally, I tend to talk more about celibacy and different levels of celibacy for those who want to practice it, for any number of reasons, because the term abstinence is so vague, full of propaganda and so confusing. For the woman asking the question, however, she had a definition for herself which was the one she wanted and felt was right for her. She was not asking me if I felt what she was or was not doing was abstinence.

    I agree, Piper: one possibility with this couple is that the male partner may or may not be heterosexual, and I’d hope, were that the case, that’s something a good counselor might be able to help him come to terms with, and something these two could work out, whether that meant adjusting their relationship/model agreement or shifting to the kind of friendship you were able to. Really, no matter what the heart of the matter is, I’d hope both could find a way to be mutually supported, as either friends, spouses or both.

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